I'll be there, so naturally they'll win.

Seriously, they've been pretty hit or miss in games I've attended.

I'm hoping for a big rebound and a good solid effort. Look for Jonas to get inside LeBron's head a bit and frustrate him once or twice.

HEY GUYS, LAST TIME WE LOST SIX IN A ROW WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!111 LOLz!

They didn't lose 6 in a row at any point last season?

I think I heard that we're off to our worst start since 2000, fwiw.

By the way, I was thinking about starting a "lock of the year" thread for everyone to use from time to time. I can't believe that the Cavs are only favored by 5 in this one.

Fred McLeod in the house tonight. I'd like to see George trip him.

I'd like to hear Fred call the game.

Maybe I'll watch online.

Fred McLeod in the house tonight. I'd like to see George trip him.

Sassy.

Shaquille O'Neal of Cleveland cavaliers to miss sixth straight game - http://tinyurl.com/yk2ohtv

Not sure if this helps or not.

Did anyone else see Stuckey go over CV's back to steal an uncontested rebound off of CV's hands in the middle of the first? what the fuck is that shit?

Any excuse to hack on the kid.

Something like that happens in every fucking game where 1 teammate "steals" a board from another.

But God help us if Stuckey does it.

Shout out to Joe D: Trade this motherfucker before my head explodes.

Any excuse to hack on the kid.

Something like that happens in every fucking game where 1 teammate "steals" a board from another.

But God help us if Stuckey does it.

Shout out to Joe D: Trade this motherfucker before my head explodes.

not like that, they were the only people on that side of the court and stuckey goes over his back? That shit does not happen often at all, in fact i've never seen it before.

Pharaoh is just stuck in "NO ONE BLAME STUCKEY FOR HIS PLAY!" mode.

Don't worry Koolaid. He'll disappear from the site again in a couple more days.

My kids and their kids were going to ask me where I was when LeBron was called for a violation on 11/25/2009.

Where were YOU when LeBron was called for a violation???
lmao

that was the weirdest call too. all the shit he gets away with every game and they called that. I didn't even see anything there.

By the way, I was thinking about starting a "lock of the year" thread for everyone to use from time to time. I can't believe that the Cavs are only favored by 5 in this one.

The books don't normally just give away money, but they did today.

Guaranteed the refs cut the 20-point Cavs lead in half with six minutes left in the fourth quarter to make things closer to the spread/more exciting.

I missed the 1st half, but in looking at the box score I have to ask, is Gordon playing PG/running the offense?

Pistons have 7 assists to Cleveland's 15, btw.

Lots of blowouts league wide today.

Weird.

I missed the 1st half, but in looking at the box score I have to ask, is Gordon playing PG/running the offense?

Pistons have 7 assists to Cleveland's 15, btw.

Stuckey's playing PG. Surprise!

I shoulda guessed, 19 minutes and zero assists sounds about right.

lol

Lol, no BG in the second half.

Gordon done for the game with an ankle, great.

I guess we need a "Gordon's ankle injury" thread now.

so gordon is injured now?

awesome.

Anyone wanna bet that Daye is the starting SG next game?

How in the hell is Charlie V able to make some of these shots?

Would he be the tallest starting SG of all time? He's almost a seven footer.

Jonathan Bender just shot himself.

Interesting that Daye gets the 2nd half start in place of Gordon as opposed to Bynum at the 1 and sliding Stuckey to the 2.
At a certain point, you have to start wondering if Q has a mandate from Joe to keep Stuckey at the point.

Jonathan Bender just shot himself.
For real or just a joke that I'm not getting?

I feel sick while watching these guys. I hope this is some sort of ruse for tanking. I remember Joe saying he'll never tank. How many GM's will straight up say "we're going to tank this year"? Maybe Golden State's GM, but not Detroit's. Maybe Joe's better than we've thought. And as I type this, the refs have cut it to thirteen.

i like daye at sg, now if stuckey wasn't the point it'd be all good

WE WON THE THIRD QUARTER

Bynum ran the offense quite a bit that quarter. I think Kelser's right, it doesn't look like he has his speed or power tonight (the last couple of games, actually) to get to the hole. Hopefully those ankles aren't going to be long-term problems.

It was very courageous of Will to try to drop one in over Ilgauskas.

lmao at Bynum doing a Stuckey impersonation to start the 4th.

not you too man. no will, no!

No starters on the floor.

Yeah, Bynum looks like ass tonight. Things are just not going to be pretty if Gordon has to miss some time. Not that they were pretty with him.

Yeah, Bynum looks like ass tonight. Things are just not going to be pretty if Gordon has to miss some time. Not that they were pretty with him.

WWY?

Was that LeBron that got dunked on? Quick, get that tape!!

Somebody make a Lebron carrying luggage photo, seriously this guy travels with frequent flyer miles.

Stuckey's playing well.

Pistons now tied for seventh-worst in the league.

:record:

Interesting that Daye gets the 2nd half start in place of Gordon as opposed to Bynum at the 1 and sliding Stuckey to the 2.
At a certain point, you have to start wondering if Q has a mandate from Joe to keep Stuckey at the point.

Or Q realized that Bynum absolutely sucked last night and didn't want him in there effing up the game any more than he already did.

Not that he was all that impressive, but Stuckey did a good job down the stretch of making things interesting. To me, the epic fail moment of the game was CV trying to post on LeBron when down by 5 or 6. Not exactly a wise move, and one that I doubt came from the bench. Still a good effort from the team though.

That theory wouldn't really explain why Bynum played a ton in the 2nd half.

In fact, Stuckey seemed to play his best ball when bynum was playing PG.

That theory wouldn't really explain why Bynum played a ton in the 2nd half.

It does if you buy that Q would rather play an off Bynum over an ancient Chucky. Not many other guard options, really, so you play what you have. With all of the substitutions last night, it seemed Q was really reluctant to leave anyone out there for a prolonged time period.

Well, we can't give Coach too many PG options - Stuckey has got to play PG, remember.

So we sign a vet minimum Atkins - never was/never will be a PG. And we've ensured Bynum doesn't start by making him the team's 6th Man and he has performed that role so well that we would be fucked if you switched him and Stuckey.

This is Joe's way - remember we dealt Curry after Tay "blossomed"? That was to ensure we had no other potential starter (Corliss could not start)

"Lightbulb moment" (perhaps?) Maybe that's why Joe kept signing old big men when LB as here. Maybe Joe thought they'd get injured or stink up the joint and LB would be forced to play Darko.

Let's see we... signed Soup, Dale Davis and McDyess way back then. All "broken", or so Joe thought. But Dice found the fountain of youth, Darko never played, whined and got dealt when his value was lower than a dwarf's nutsack.

See, it's Joe's way of ensuring his project plays.

If I ever played for a team that you coached, and you brung me off the bench, I'd intentionally stink it up. "Oh, he must be a starter!" meanwhile that guy who plays good and proves himself stays on the bench?

Yeah, you're fucking retarded with that shit.

If I ever played for a team that you coached, and you brung me off the bench, I'd intentionally stink it up. "Oh, he must be a starter!" meanwhile that guy who plays good and proves himself stays on the bench?

Yeah, you're fucking retarded with that shit.

Um, yeah - insult me all you like. That doesn't mean your arguement is any more convincing.

You gotta realise that you are actually complaining because a dude that is less than 6 foot tall, has an extremely shaky jumper past 15 feet and is not above average on D is not the starting PG!

As a opposed to starting Rodney Stuckey - who also has an extremely shaky jumper past 15 feet but is above 6 feet tall and is at least a reasonable defender most of the time.

See, it's Joe's way of ensuring his project plays.
Why doesn't he just tell 2-3 players to sit with "injuries" and force his favored young'uns to develop? :)

As a opposed to starting Rodney Stuckey - who also has an extremely shaky jumper past 15 feet but is above 6 feet tall and is at least a reasonable defender most of the time.

he's a reasonable if he's not guarding the position he's playing.

you're pretty blind if you think Stuckey applies pressure or has anywhere near the lateral quickness that Bynum has.

if you honestly believe that having a 6'5" point takes priority over having a point who can actually pass the ball then you're fucking stupid.

Yes, Koolaid - I DID say that I wanted a 6'5" non-passing PG.

Really, you can even quote it (if you can find where that shit is posted)

And I MUST have mentioned lateral quickness, and that ability alone - cause that's all you need on D, right Koolaid?

WTF? Why do I even bother?

Yes, Koolaid - I DID say that I wanted a 6'5" non-passing PG.

Really, you can even quote it (if you can find where that shit is posted)

And I MUST have mentioned lateral quickness, and that ability alone - cause that's all you need on D, right Koolaid?

WTF? Why do I even bother?


you're a bitch ass motherfucker man lol.

lateral quickness is the most important thing a PG can have on defense. so YES. you didn't mention it because it doesn't state your case for deepthroating stuckey's dick.

you just posted a comparisson of bynum and stuckey to make it seem as if Stuck deserves to start, that is you stating that you want a 6'5" PG who doesn't pass to run your team.

stop being a bitch.

you're a bitch ass motherfucker man lol.

Thanks, man. I appreciate that comment. Doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion though.


lateral quickness is the most important thing a PG can have on defense. so YES.

No, I didn't mention it.


you didn't mention it because it doesn't state your case for deepthroating stuckey's dick.

I'm sorry you think that way cause it's really not like that at all ... but again it has nothing to do with the discussion


you just posted a comparisson of bynum and stuckey to make it seem as if Stuck deserves to start, that is you stating that you want a 6'5" PG who doesn't pass to run your team.

If you wanna call what I posted a comparison you can do that. But you can't dispute that 1) Stuckey is bigger than Bynum and 2) Stuckey as an individual player is a better defender than Bynum.

I said nothing of passing, lateral quickness, assist to turnover ratio, FG%


stop being a bitch.

Can't promise that. But I do promise that I'll do my very best to ensure that in the future my wordy posts do not confuse you and make you think you read something that actually isn't there.

How'd that be, Earl?

Koolaid's IQ isnt very high so he has to try and make himself look smarter by cussing people out. Dont mind him.

If you wanna call what I posted a comparison you can do that. But you can't dispute that 1) Stuckey is bigger than Bynum and 2) Stuckey as an individual player is a better defender than Bynum.


ok ill go back to the basics on your ass.

Stuckey is not a better defender than Bynum. They are both PGs. Bynum defends PGs better, and his quickness allows him to do alot defensively that Stuckey can not do.

for what it's worth i can understand why you're on the man's nuts. him and Stackhouse are basically the same player, except Stuck doesn't dunk.

Koolaid's IQ isnt very high so he has to try and make himself look smarter by cussing people out. Dont mind him.

coming from the whiny bitch who cussed out bynum to start this motherfucker off. yeah, you call bynum names and i call you names. sounds about right. who's the low IQ bitch?

you. When I come off a rant fueled by lots of alcohol and you cant tell the difference between my rant and yours, that's pretty sad.

you. When I come off a rant fueled by lots of alcohol and you cant tell the difference between my rant and yours, that's pretty sad.

how you know i'm not drunk too?

you talk out your ass and i call it like i see it. you bitch and i call you a bitch for it.

On another note, i was on seagrams extra smooth vodka. what were you on?

how you know i'm not drunk too?

Because you're like that all the time. You're not drunk. You're just an idiot.

Because you're like that all the time. You're not drunk. You're just an idiot.

see, there's more bitchassness.

that's why you get called bitch by any motherfucker like me. can't handle your drink, get all moody, then it clouds your judgement to the point that you think i'm like that all the time. it's alright because i already know about you. i'm an alcoholic smelly douchebag gun fanatic, and you're a drunken whiny bitch. it's all good.

Yes yes, I'm sure you enjoy calling everybody bitch because you think it makes you look tough or cool. I'm sure you call your own mother that when she packs your lunch in the morning on your way to school.

Here's a hint: it does neither for you.

Yes yes, I'm sure you enjoy calling everybody bitch because you think it makes you look tough or cool. I'm sure you call your own mother that when she packs your lunch in the morning on your way to school.

Here's a hint: it does neither for you.


bitch i got kicked out of school back in 99 for being drunk and carrying a concealed weapon. you obviously just love talking out your ass, it's alright because we know it's a bitch move to do that and you fit the profile.

ok, I'm done with you. Come back when you have something worth reading.

Koolaid's IQ isnt very high so he has to try and make himself look smarter by cussing people out. Dont mind him.
Kind of womanly, eh?

Kind of womanly, eh?

you too?

fuck. imma get drunk early today i guess.

It was a jab at stat, you had to be there.

ok ill go back to the basics on your ass.

There's no need for that. I can read all your posts. Including the ones after this where you come across as either a drunking teenager or a proud redneck. I don't really care either way, cause it AGAIN has nothing to do with the discussion.


Stuckey is not a better defender than Bynum. They are both PGs. Bynum defends PGs better, and his quickness allows him to do alot defensively that Stuckey can not do.

First things first: Rodney Stuckey is not a PG. That's a proven fact. I don't care what position the organisation expects him to play, where they play him or what they call him. He was not, is not and never will be a PG.

Now, secondly: YES (shock! horror! awe!) Bynum's speedy, midget ass allows him to do things that very, very few 6'5" SG's can do. Like stay in front of most other guards and especially, speedy ones. But due to the hand checking rules he can't really do shit except try to stay in front of them and maybe get a hand up.

Due to hand checking rules AND his small ass he can be shot over consistently. He can also get dominated by bigger guards (which means most of them). Kinda like Chauncey used to do. Remember how Chauncey used to just dip his shoulder into fuckers at the top of the key, take a couple of dribbles and pull up? You can do that shit all day on Bynum cause he's (at most) 5 foot fucking 10.

And YES, his size matters. His inability to do anything other maybe stay in front of his opposite number matters. IF they wanna they can bump him a little and hit mid-range J's on his ass all night long.

But don't mention that. Don't bring that shit up. Cause he's the little engine that could.


for what it's worth i can understand why you're on the man's nuts. him and Stackhouse are basically the same player, except Stuck doesn't dunk.

Again, I'm not on Stuckey's nuts, or his side or whatever. I have stated time and time again the kid was not, is not and never will be a PG IMO. The kid is a SG being forced to play PG by an organisation that seems to enjoy fucking up the few decent prospects it manages to draft once in a blue moon.

But the amount of hate this kid cops for a 3rd year pro is just insane. He's playing for his 3rd pro Coach, on a team where his role changes nightly (if not by the minute) and he has survived the "Coaching" of Michael Curry, the disaster that was last season and the "Sacred Cow" shit.

Give the kid some credit.

But no one can do that. Cause he's a bum. Y'all hate the kid. That's cool.

He, along with Bynum is THE issue right now. So let's keep it rolling...

Damn! Sorry Koolaid - another wordy post. I hope it doesn't confuse you

It was a jab at stat, you had to be there.
most of your jabs are "you had to be there" try something for the whole crowd next time damnit.

Right now Stuckey, a guy you even say is not a PG, is starting at point guard. Then there's Bynum, a straight up PG, coming off the bench.

Stuckey starts the game off almost exclusively looking for his own shot because he's playing out of position. This team has dudes who can score in the starting lineup (or it did at least), and nobody is there to pass to them. If you don't see that then you're not watching.

Bynum's clearly the best distributor on this team. If you don't think it's a good idea to have your best distributor starting at the point and feeding his team mates with baskets to get them in rhythm then you really don't know shit. You can type the 'wordy posts' and make little bitch ass remarks doubting my ability to read or whatever, but it doesn't change that you're wrong as hell.

You can even say dumb shit like PGs are going to use their size to overpower Bynum because BARON DAVIS did it. You can mention the fact that Chauncey used to do that shit all the time too and attempt to make it seem common. I don't believe that you're dumb enough to think that's normal though, those guys are very rare in this league. You know you're full of shit when you type that stuff. Look at the PGs in this league. Only Chauncey, Baron, Andre Miller and sometimes Jason Kidd are going to play that way.

I'm not going to just be cool while letting Stuckey to start at PG, not be a PG, shoot horribly and recklessly chuck up shots while getting 40 minutes a game just because it's his 3rd year. If his game needs to improve then his minutes should reflect that, whether it's his 3rd or his 13th year.

Yup.

Right now Stuckey, a guy you even say is not a PG, is starting at point guard. Then there's Bynum, a straight up PG, coming off the bench.

Again, you're mistaken. Bynum is not a straight up PG. But we'll continue...


Stuckey starts the game off almost exclusively looking for his own shot because he's playing out of position. This team has dudes who can score in the starting lineup (or it did at least), and nobody is there to pass to them. If you don't see that then you're not watching.

First things first: I probably watch more NBA than most of you fuckers, via downloads, highlights and shit like that.

Secondly: No one is there to pass to our starting line-up? Really? Why not - there are 5 guys on the floor, right?

I've never seen Stuckey take the tip off and play 1 on 5 to start a game so there are other dudes on the floor. And there have been games where Stuckey has hardly shot the ball in the 1st quarter. So come up with some other excuse for your midget buddy to get burn


Bynum's clearly the best distributor on this team. If you don't think it's a good idea to have your best distributor starting at the point and feeding his team mates with baskets to get them in rhythm then you really don't know shit.

Another insult, cause that's how you roll! lol

Obviously Coach doesn't agree with you. Cause he started Daye and then Chucky. You can debate with me but you can't say shit about Coach.

Or doesn't he know shit, either?


You can type the 'wordy posts' and make little bitch ass remarks doubting my ability to read or whatever, but it doesn't change that you're wrong as hell.

Another insult and then you make a prediction...

I'm wrong as hell? About what exactly?

That Bynum shouldn't start? (Coach agrees with me)
That Stuckey should start? (Coach agrees with me)


You can even say dumb shit like PGs are going to use their size to overpower Bynum because BARON DAVIS did it. You can mention the fact that Chauncey used to do that shit all the time too and attempt to make it seem common.

I'm sorry - my post was too wordy. I knew you'd get confused. At what point did I "attempt to make it seem common"?

IF an opposing PG can do that to Bynum and get an easy jumper that doesn't mean they would do it all fucking night. This ain't NBA Live where PG's can score 50 on lay-ups. In a real game an opposing PG might try it early against Bynum (if we're dumb enough to start him)

When it works (and it will) that opposing PG will not do it again straight away. He'll go about his business running his team and ONLY use that move on Bynum when he needs to score a bucket and nothing else is happening, or when it's time to take over.

By doing that simple move you can get into the paint, opening up shooters or big men to dish to. You can try and get to the foul line, too. That opposing PG has a lot of options because of that one play.

Do they have those same options now? Of course! But Bynum is not a real factor for oppositions yet. He's a little hit and miss (especially lately).

But IF you start him teams will plan to abuse him. That's how it works. Mis-matches matter. I don't believe that you're dumb enough to think they don't.


I'm not going to just be cool while letting Stuckey to start at PG, not be a PG, shoot horribly and recklessly chuck up shots while getting 40 minutes a game just because it's his 3rd year. If his game needs to improve then his minutes should reflect that, whether it's his 3rd or his 13th year.

Who the fuck said he should be allowed to do anything?

Did you mistake me for a Stuckey fan AGAIN? Oh, that's right - too wordy.

Stuckey can get traded for a 2010 pick for all I care. For the last time: He was not, is not and will never be a PG. Dump now while he still has some kind of value.

We can then start Bynum so I can laugh at y'all as we continue to slide down the standings to ensure a high Lotto pick.

Who gives a fuck about coach Q? That's your justification? he did it so it must be the right decision? I don't got a problem with him or anything, but it's kind of silly to assume anything is right just because an unproven rookie head coach just did it. Q is far from being immune to criticism, he hasn't done shit.
And if you're not a fan of Stuckey at PG, and you insist Bynum should strictly come off the bench, Then who should be starting at PG right now? Chucky!?

And if you're not a fan of Stuckey at PG, and you insist Bynum should strictly come off the bench, Then who should be starting at PG right now? Chucky!?

Ideally we'd have a real PG in the starting line-up. Someone like Andre Miller - a pass first kind of guy.

But, of the available options on the roster the only guy you can go with is Bynum - and that presents the problems I have already discussed.

Are ya happy? I just said Bynum should start.

Doesn't mean I want him to, or he deserves it or something. Just that we have no real PG on the roster and he's the best pick out of a bad bunch.

P, don't give in to that weak argument. Rodney Stuckey aside, Bynum isn't an NBA starting PG. He's a stellar backup, and possibly the best backup PG in the league, but as a backup, he'd be crushed incessantly.

Chris Paul
height: 6-0
weight: 175

Rajon Rondo
Height: 6-1
Weight: 171

Aaron Brooks
Height: 6-0
Weight: 161

Mario Chalmers
Height: 6-1
Weight: 190

Gilbert Arenas
Height: 6-4
Weight: 215

Brandon Jennings
Height: 6-1
Weight: 169

Baron Davis
Height: 6-3
Weight: 215

Jonny Flynn
Height: 6-0
Weight: 185

Devin Harris
Height: 6-3
Weight: 190

Jose Calderon
Height: 6-3
Weight: 210

Chris Duhon
Height: 6-1
Weight: 190

Derek Fisher
Height: 6-1
Weight: 210

Jameer Nelson
Height: 6-0
Weight: 190

Monta Ellis
Height: 6-3
Weight: 180

TJ Ford
Height: 6-0
Weight: 165

Louis Williams
Height: 6-1
Weight: 175

Rafer Alston
Height: 6-2
Weight: 175

Mike Bibby
Height: 6-2
Weight: 195

Steve Nash
Height: 6-3
Weight: 178

Tony Parker
Height: 6-2
Weight: 180

Derrick Rose
Height: 6-3
Weight: 190

Russell Westbrook
Height: 6-3
Weight: 187

Mike Conley
Height: 6-1
Weight: 185

Deron Williams
Height: 6-3
Weight: 207

Raymond Felton
Height: 6-1
Weight: 198

Tyreke Evans
Height: 6-6
Weight: 220

Mo Williams
Height: 6-1
Weight: 190

Steve Blake
Height: 6-3
Weight: 172

Chauncey Billups
Height: 6-3
Weight: 202

Will Bynum
Height: 6-0
Weight: 185



yup.

Chris Paul
height: 6-0
weight: 175

Rajon Rondo
Height: 6-1
Weight: 171

Aaron Brooks
Height: 6-0
Weight: 161

Mario Chalmers
Height: 6-1
Weight: 190

Gilbert Arenas
Height: 6-4
Weight: 215

Brandon Jennings
Height: 6-1
Weight: 169

Baron Davis
Height: 6-3
Weight: 215

Jonny Flynn
Height: 6-0
Weight: 185

Devin Harris
Height: 6-3
Weight: 190

Jose Calderon
Height: 6-3
Weight: 210

Chris Duhon
Height: 6-1
Weight: 190

Derek Fisher
Height: 6-1
Weight: 210

Jameer Nelson
Height: 6-0
Weight: 190

Monta Ellis
Height: 6-3
Weight: 180

TJ Ford
Height: 6-0
Weight: 165

Louis Williams
Height: 6-1
Weight: 175

Rafer Alston
Height: 6-2
Weight: 175

Mike Bibby
Height: 6-2
Weight: 195

Steve Nash
Height: 6-3
Weight: 178

Tony Parker
Height: 6-2
Weight: 180

Derrick Rose
Height: 6-3
Weight: 190

Russell Westbrook
Height: 6-3
Weight: 187

Mike Conley
Height: 6-1
Weight: 185

Deron Williams
Height: 6-3
Weight: 207

Raymond Felton
Height: 6-1
Weight: 198

Tyreke Evans
Height: 6-6
Weight: 220

Mo Williams
Height: 6-1
Weight: 190

Steve Blake
Height: 6-3
Weight: 172

Chauncey Billups
Height: 6-3
Weight: 202

Will Bynum
Height: 5-8.5
Weight: 185



yup.

Fixed.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I'm probably the only one here who has seen Bynum up close, and for the record, I'm 5'9'' and Bynum is barely my size.

5.10.5" without shoes in pre-draft measurements, per:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Will-Bynum-322/

5.10.5" without shoes in pre-draft measurements, per:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Will-Bynum-322/
So you add 3/4" for shoes... then the league rounds up for every player... that's your 6' 0 fake height

LMAO

Bynum looked huge standing next to Boykins. If Bynum's really 5'8" then Boykins is really 4'10".

He was measured the same as everyone else. and when he stands next Chris Paul he's the same height.

Y'all just trying to make some shit up when there's nothing even there.

And you're still so worried about who gets his name called to start the game.

Bynum gets plenty of minutes.

Until he consistently gets shafted shut the fuck up.

And you're still so worried about who gets his name called to start the game.

Bynum gets plenty of minutes.

Until he consistently gets shafted shut the fuck up.

that's dumb shit to say something like that. i want the best distributor to start the game, it isn't all about him getting minutes. it's about the shooters getting shots and finding their rhythm to start the game, instead of having none of that until ten minutes go by and motherfuckers get cold.