I know there are no "Sacred Cows," but who would you rather keep to build around, and who would you use as trade bait? I know that if a deal comes along that can't be passed up, anyone and everyone would be traded. But, IN THEORY, who do you keep?

Stuckey or Bynum?
Ben or Wilcox?
Gordon or Hamilton?
Villinueva or a large pizza?

I think a package of Kwame, Bynum and Summers could be interesting to many teams.

I'd try to throw Maxiell in there but I doubt many teams would want him right now.

Bynum is the kind of guy they need to keep, he's good and he's cheap, and they have control of his rights.

Somebody will definitely take Kwame's expiring deal, but who is it worth more to than the Pistons? I doubt that Joe is going to bail another team out by taking on $/years.

Summers is basically worthless, IMO. He's a second round pick that can't even get on the floor. He probably should be in the NBDL.

The rights to WTFDetroit.com.

Starbury would bite, for sure.... just after he finishes his Knicks documentary.

I think they need to balance the roster and move out the older players with the bigger salaries, but only if they get quality in return, don't give them away - maybe to a contender at the deadline looking for that one more piece (a la our Rasheed deal). Worst case scenario is that you hold onto them until they have expiring deals, then try to make a blockbuster.

Of course, if the right deal is there, I think you "sell high" on Stuckey if at all possible. You've got all that money invested in Gordon now, so he should be one of the buidling blocks.

Can't move Big Ben, 1 year deal and he'd rather retire than move again, IMO.

I like Bynum, but he isn't really a true "distributing" PG. Neither is Stuckey, but he isn't undersized like Bynum is.

However, I think I would keep Bynum if the Pistons could come up with a distributing PG like Andre Miller (or someone of that caliber) where Bynum could be a good change of pace PG. He certainly can fill it up quickly.

We're way more than 1 player away, so I only trade to improve position. I'm adding picks or young talent or a stud I can give a true max deal to.

I'd use Stuckey. Bynum is simply better than he is.

I like Shoopy.

ROY?

stuckey would net more in a trade and is less talented than bynum. I think it's a no brainer.

Stuckey DOES have more value in a trade but I wouldn't be so quick to pull the trigger...

UNLESS we'd be getting back a legit starting PG.

And who the fuck is gonna trade us a legit starting PG for the third (or 4th) best SG on our roster?

Even if you threw in Kwame would Portland deal Andre Miller?

Would we want Dre? Would they want Stuckey and Kwame?

And why the fuck would we do that deal when our frontline is bad enough as it is without dealing a dude that can actually contribute (as opposed to Maxiell who is a waste of a roster spot/money/draft pick)

As a package I think Kwame, Bynum and Summers is worth shopping.

Kwame is a nice expiring deal for some team looking for more space in 2010. Bynum is that change of pace guard a lot of teams would like. And Summers = potential based on his Summer League play.

But whatever - come up with a package you wanna shop.

Stuckey on his own is not a package

I have more faith in Bynum running the point then you do evidently, i'd be comfortable having him start at PG and letting Chucky/BG/Tay run the point while he's out.

I'd package any two of rip, stuck and tay for a quality/star big guy. Any bigs that the pistons have outside of CV and Big Ben can be thrown in filler if needed as well.

I will say that I don't want to trade Bynum, because he's the only guy on the roster who can keep a guard in front of him. What you said about Stuck needing a point in return is how I feel about Will Bynum, in my eyes he's the only PG on the team.

I don't think your package of Bynum, Kwame and Summers is going to get jack shit in return to be honest. Bynum is the only one of those guys worth a damn, and I don't think other GMs are even necessarily aware of that yet. I think if you were to ask for a quality big or point for that package they'd laugh at you.

I have more faith in Bynum running the point then you do evidently, i'd be comfortable having him start at PG and letting Chucky/BG/Tay run the point while he's out.

I don't view Bynum as a legit PG (hence the comment about Stuckey being the 3rd or 4th best SG on our roster) and don't think he's gonna be here long term given that we have Rip and Gordon locked up long-term and Stuckey is Joe's boy so he ain't going anywhere.


I don't think your package of Bynum, Kwame and Summers is going to get jack shit in return to be honest.

Potential Trade Partners with the Kwame/Bynum/Summers package

1: NEW JERSEY
$53.6 million salary cap: $24.9 million in cap space
$50 million salary cap: $21.3 million in cap space

We get Eduardo Najera who has 3 years remaining on his contract. He makes $3 million this season. We also get Keyon Dooling (long ago Joe liked the dude). Dooling has 2 years remaining and he makes $3,564,000 this season. We would also get their first round pick (Top 5 protected this Draft, unprotected next Draft)

They clear more salary and it costs them a first round pick. Clearing an additional $6 mil off the cap is HUGE!

2. NEW YORK
$53.6 million salary cap: $23.4 million in cap space
$50 million salary cap: $19.8 million in cap space

We get Jared Jeffries. 2 years left on his deal, paid $6,466,600 this season. We'd also get the Knicks pick unprotected as soon as they can deal one (I believe they owe a first rounder in the next Draft)

Considering that those cap space numbers are best case scenario (meaning Lee and Robinson are gone). So add an addition $6+ mil to their cap space!

3. MIAMI
$53.6 million salary cap: $18.5 million of cap space
$50 million salary cap: $14.9 million of cap space

We get James Jones with a shocking 4 years to go on his contract PLUS he makes $4,330,000 and obviously we'd get their first round pick.

Worst case scenario for the Heat is they have almost $19 mil in cap space to surround Wade with some fucking talent.

4. MINNESOTA
$53.6 million salary cap: $12.5 million of cap space
$50 million salary cap: $8.9 million of cap space

I think they'll come to believe that signing Sessions was a waste of time and that Mr. Flynn is their PG. Session got a 3 year deal starting @ $3,670,667. Combine him with Pecherov and his deal (he has a team option for next season) + the lowest of their first round picks.

Worst case scenario means we just helped them get over the $10 mil in cap space point.

If they wanna keep Sessions but don't think Ryan Gomes is a solution for them off the bench (who the fuck knows what they think in Minny?) we could take him instead of Sessions. He's got a 4 year deal and this season makes $3,892,500.

IF they did either deal they'd end up having more than $10 mil in cap space.

5. OKLAHOMA CITY
$53.6 million salary cap: $11.8 million of cap space
$50 million salary cap: $8.2 million of cap space

We'd take Nick Collison and his 2 years remaining (cost is $6,250,000) and we'd get their first round pick for the trouble.

They get Kwame, Bynum, Summers - or what could amount to an additional $6 mil in cap space. Worst case scenario they end up with more than $14 mil to spend this off-season.

They might enjoy that, considering the young guns they have already on the roster and having that much cash would allow them to get a couple of guys that could come in and help them

So, there you have 6 trades that all net us a future first and IMHO cost us nothing of value. I'm not saying Kwame and Bynum suck but you gotta look at the long-term make-up of the team and ask yourself if they really have a future here.

Do the players we take back help us? Who gives a fuck? We're not contenders for anything other than playoff spankings and that ain't something I wanna see. Send out all the parts that won't be here to turn this thing around and get something/anything of value out of them.

I personally don't think Kwame, Bynum or Summers have much of a future here. And I think other GM's would love to have Bynum coming off the bench for the rest of the season. He isn't a secret. Kwame is decent up front and his contract makes him pretty valuable. Summers is just a throw in, but surely teams saw Summer League and thought the kid had some game?

Fuck this was a long ass post.

BTW, Koolaid - if you're gonna package Rip and/or Tay with Stuckey to get your big man then what options are out there?

I aint trying to change this into a trade thread but if people are gonna come up with packages to deal then what do you expect back?

I seriously doubt Bosh or Amare can be had now, and with the cap projected to decrease by a reasonable amount I'd say their current teams are laughing their asses off.

Bynum -may- be something "of value", but thanks for putting together a nice list.

If you think Bynum sucks then I seriously have to question how much you've seen him play. We don't all agree on much here at WTF, but I don't think anyone else thinks Bynum sucks. I highly doubt that we would draft anyone better than he is with this pick that you are trying to acquire, PLUS you're giving up a nice expiring contract AND taking on a bad deal?

No way.

The only guys I would keep are Bynum, Gordon, Hamilton, Villanueva and the rookies. Everyone else is a stiff/overpaid/sucks/blows.

The Minny and NJ picks might be quite nice, but it's evident by the way Joe spent his money he isn't thinking about 2014 right now.

i think Prince is our best trade bait,if we can get a good big for him like Kaman, lets trade his ass, Daye has the talent to fill in for Prince someday, Jerebko is an energy guy

The obvious choice right now is Tayshaun. He's the only mainstay that really doesnt fit this system.

BTW, Koolaid - if you're gonna package Rip and/or Tay with Stuckey to get your big man then what options are out there?

I aint trying to change this into a trade thread but if people are gonna come up with packages to deal then what do you expect back?

I seriously doubt Bosh or Amare can be had now, and with the cap projected to decrease by a reasonable amount I'd say their current teams are laughing their asses off.


I don't know exactly what's available. Bosh or Amare would be the best case scenario, but it's not like there isn't other big men in the league. Kaman, Biedrins and Pryzbilla have all been in rumors. I'd consider just dumping them for a large expiring, like McGrady and a pick, as well and hope to get a big guy in free agency.



If you think Bynum sucks then I seriously have to question how much you've seen him play. We don't all agree on much here at WTF, but I don't think anyone else thinks Bynum sucks. I highly doubt that we would draft anyone better than he is with this pick that you are trying to acquire, PLUS you're giving up a nice expiring contract AND taking on a bad deal?

No way.

^what he said

If you think Bynum sucks then I seriously have to question how much you've seen him play. We don't all agree on much here at WTF, but I don't think anyone else thinks Bynum sucks. I highly doubt that we would draft anyone better than he is with this pick that you are trying to acquire, PLUS you're giving up a nice expiring contract AND taking on a bad deal?

No way.

Who is this directed at?

I don't recall saying Bynum sucks. I don't think he does. I just think he has no long-term future here considering Rip's contract, Gordon's signing and Stuckey is apparently "the future" according to Joe.

And if you are directing your post at me and wondering why I take a bad contract for a Draft pick have a look at the teams we're dealing with. They're pretty fucking bad. So potentially we'd be getting a 2010 Lotto pick (except from NY cause, as already stated they owe that pick to someone else) from one of these teams for taking said bad contract.

You got a problem with that, GD? A 2010 Lotto pick?

Oops, sorry, I missed a little part of your post that said "I'm not saying" right in front of "Bynum and Kwame suck". Maybe I'm just used to seeing "Kwame sucks" and subconsciously I got mixed up. My bad.

And to your point about Bynum for a future lottery pick, with Joe's track record with drafting in the lottery, I'll take the sure thing in Bynum.

Well, I'll forgive you just this once for fucking not reading my posts...

Anyway, you can take the sure thing in Bynum. I would. I think he's got some balls, plays with heart and isn't gonna back down. That's my kinda player.

But from what I can tell Joe Dumars thinks Rodney Stuckey is "better". So, if we don't move Rip and Gordon just got here the question has to be:

How much are the Pistons willing to pay Bynum to stay? Cause right now it's looking like he might prove rather expensive to retain.

And if we spend half/most of the MLE on Bynum how much money are we then spending on our guards?

At some point don't we have to worry about not having decent bigs?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we wouldn't have to touch our MLE to re-sign Bynum.

He's only been here 2 years, right?

NOT a second round pick avquired via trade?

IIRC we signed him as a free agent before last season so he's an Early Bird free agent. My CBA knowledge ain't what it used to be but I'm fairly sure that's not good

Let's clear up the Bynum free agency for good here:



EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception, and is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. A player qualifies for this exception essentially after playing two seasons without being waived or changing teams s a free agent (see question number 25 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q25) for details).

Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater (see question number 24 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q24) for the definition of "average salary." Also note that for 2005-06 they used a defined figure of $5 million).

Early Bird contracts must be for at least two seasons (which limits this exception's usefulness -- it's often better to take a lower salary for one more season and then have the full Bird exception available the next season) and no longer than five seasons. A player can receive raises up to 10.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract using this exception.

If the player is a restricted free agent with two years of service and receives an offer sheet from a new team, the player's prior team may use the Early Bird exception to match the offer sheet (see question number 36 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q36) for restricted free agency).

and some stuff on restricted free agents in case Bynum qualifies:


Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first round draft picks (see question number 41 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q41)). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons...

In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player by June 30...

The qualifying offer for all other players must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 11 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q11)) plus $175,000, whichever is greater. The qualifying offer must be for one season