I have been trying to be patient. I've been trying to let itself play out. But I can't handle this anymore. Michigan football has turned into a joke. I could handle all the bad publicity Rodriguez gets if Michigan were a solid football team. I could handle being 5-4 if it looked like Michigan were making improvements. But there is not one positive thing to say about this guy other than "He's done well for other teams."

Michigan needed two feet to take a 13 point lead yesterday. They didn't get it. TOUGH SHIT. Buck up and play hard. They have a 6 point lead still. Illinois scores a long touchdown. Tough shit. You're only down by 1 and you're getting the ball back. Turn the fucking page and win the game. Only a TERRIBLE, SIMPLE MINDED coach would let that series of events ruin a game to a team that hasn't beaten a division 1 football program.

I didn't like the hiring from the get-go. I tried to be okay with it for the first season. I've had enough. Rich Rod has punched Michigan's football program in the balls. Get rid of him before he does any worse. I'm done watching Michigan football until he's gone.

Peace.





Art

I couldn't disagree more. This season was supposed to be "at best" a 6 win team. We have 2 FRESHMAN STARTING QUARTERBACKS. I have no feeling good or bad with the way the past couple weeks have went because my expectations were so low this season.

Yeah. I've come down to Earth. Godriguez needs more time. Tate's still a frosh. This team is really young.

Always next year.

Btw, Greg Robinson needs to be slapped in the face. Our corners are consistently playing 8 yds off the line of scimmage-- 5 yds to the offense any time it needs 'em.

I couldn't disagree more. This season was supposed to be "at best" a 6 win team. We have 2 FRESHMAN STARTING QUARTERBACKS. I have no feeling good or bad with the way the past couple weeks have went because my expectations were so low this season.

I understand that take, but how has it come to this? Michigan fans are being asked to sit through this tough time and expect better things in the future. This is Michigan football! The team with the most wins in history. Not some second rate bullshit organization - MICHIGAN FOOTBALL. Why is it okay to have our expecations set so low? Meanwhile, even the minamal expectations we have, he dashes those with more instances of acting like a clown. I'm fine with a transition stage, but a 9 loss season followed by the circus that is becoming this season is anacceptable.

Rodriguez might be an okay coach for the Big East or the SEC, but not the Big 10.

Btw, Greg Robinson needs to be slapped in the face. Our corners are consistently playing 8 yds off the line of scimmage-- 5 yds to the offense any time it needs 'em.
I told ya'll greg robinson is a bum. Him and RR both need to be sent packing and the school needs to coup a real deal HC(offer Les Miles the holy grail of U of M if need be).

LOL @ the Art reset.

The rule usually is, give a new coach at least 3 years to establish the kind of personnel he requires to operate his system,and purge the recruits from the prior regime.

Hasn't been three years full years.

The real question should be, should RR have been hired in the first place? In other words, was his kind of football the best fit for Big 10+1 play? Winning a ton of games doesn't necessarily equate to winning everywhere he goes.

We can talk about talent all day, it was still a bone head call NOT to kick the fg to put us up 2 scores.

If they had gone for it and made it, you might be singing a different tune.

No - because it was Illinois. Instead he let his team become depressed and mope around and be pathetic for the rest of the game. Call a timeout, rip your players apart, and tell them to go out there and play football, not hang their heads like panzies.

I'm just saying, that's how it goes. Coaches are praised when that shit succeeds, and ripped when it fails.

I'm not on the firing squad just yet, but I was disgusted for the first time all season long when it was all over yesterday.

I was yelling at him to go for it so I have no problem when he did. I do have a problem with his play calling with an inch and a half to go. Tate could have tried to sneak it in on four plays. Instead, we ran from side to side, off tackles and handed the ball off three yards deep. POUND THE FUCKING BALL IN!

If they had gone for it and made it, you might be singing a different tune.

I don't think so. He made a fundamental mistake. You get a chance to go up 2 scores on a conference opponent, you do it. I said in the game thread, whether he makes it or not, its the incorrect call.

That was the turning point.

Once you are up 2 scores you can afford to gamble a lil bit on a 4th and goal.

Then again, I'm conservative.

I'm really surprised why teams don't designate a massive defensive tackle and teach him short yardage running (Refrigerator Perry style). Stick his ass in there four yards deep and hand it off to him. Really, all you have to teach him is how to accept a handoff cleanly. 280 fucking pounds slamming into the line, he should get at LEAST a yard or two each time.

I was yelling at him to go for it so I have no problem when he did. I do have a problem with his play calling with an inch and a half to go. Tate could have tried to sneak it in on four plays. Instead, we ran from side to side, off tackles and handed the ball off three yards deep. POUND THE FUCKING BALL IN!

yeah, the play calling has been pretty stupid at times this season.

I don't think so. He made a fundamental mistake. You get a chance to go up 2 scores on a conference opponent, you do it. I said in the game thread, whether he makes it or not, its the incorrect call.

That was the turning point.

Once you are up 2 scores you can afford to gamble a lil bit on a 4th and goal.

Then again, I'm conservative.

Well, I didn't really know how to feel when they went for it on 4th, but I did feel the exact same way you did when they were stopped. :)

Well, I didn't really know how to feel when they went for it on 4th. But I did feel the exact same way you did when they were stopped. :)

I'm a better person for reading that post.

Always looking to help out fans after their team is blown out by 27 points, friend.

Always looking to help out fans after their team is blown out by 27 points, friend.

Good looking out, my Lord.

I don't agree with his replacement, but it looks as if I'm not the only one who's ready to drop Rich Rod.


In his entry for CollegeFootballNews.com's 5 Thoughts column, Michael Bradley touches on some of the same issues we mentioned yesterday regarding Rich Rodriguez's tenure in Ann Arbor -- that his scheme may not work against upper-division opponents, that teams have figured out how to slow the spread, that recruiting small but fast guys won't hold up over the long haul in the Big Ten -- and arrives at this conclusion: Rodriguez must go.

Bradley writes: "If this were Indiana, it would make sense to keep Rodriguez around, because building takes time. But this isn't Indiana. This is the nation's winningest program, and it has been leveled."

Moreover, Bradley suggests it is time to make nice with former Michigan QB Jim Harbaugh, now the coach at Stanford (recall his criticism of the program two years ago re: academic standards), and bring him back into the maize-and-blue fold.


From ESPNInsider (I might have to "delete" this post)

Moreover, Bradley suggests it is time to make nice with former Michigan QB Jim Harbaugh, now the coach at Stanford (recall his criticism of the program two years ago re: academic standards), and bring him back into the maize-and-blue tent.

Yeah, that's a joke. F Harbaugh.

Yeah, that's a joke. F Harbaugh.
I'd take him over RR. Though i get why no one else would.

You love when you get to say that.

Um, no. Unlike Glinn i don't really have a sixth sense on what part of my kidney you're sarcastically punching. But i'll feel hurt because i'm paranoid that you just tried to. :(:emo kid:

You love when you get to say that.

BUMP

Yup. I don't care what his rep is.

I'm not a big college football guy, but would it even be possible that he would get fired? I would think some colleges might, but UofM?

Moeller was fired for less, IMO.

just to play devil's advocate, wouldnt firing him be a referendum on his offense? the d was supposed to be bad and is super duper bad, but he was brought in to modernize the offense (and win games, i guess). the offense can be frustrating, but it's done enough to put us in position to win all but really 2 games (and ill, i would argue, is an exception since we moved the ball well much of the time but left alot of points on the field, be it the goal line stand or opting not to go for fg's). conceivably, michigan is 9-1 or 8-2 if we had an average defense. i think once michigan gets into the 20's its usually a game you expect to win. so its hard to say the offense has really even been disapointing, and its with 2 true froshies at qb.

the defense has been abysmal. i really dont know how it happened. its by far the worst i've ever seen from michigan. i dont know if its a bad scheme, bad talent, recruiting, execution, or anything else. its terrible. in fact, its so bad i dont see how RR could be solely responsible for it getting to this state.

at this point im far from a RR apologist. i think his offense is looking pretty respectable, but in just about every other consideration he has been disapointing. i really dont want him fired before next year unless we have no choice. not just because we could lose gardner, but the last transition showed that hiring a blue chip coach isnt as easy as samantha from HR doing a quick search on craigslist. and with a new AD coming in soon, it would be better for him to make this decision.

I don't think he should be fired today, but as soon as they finish their 5-7 season off, I think he should be gone. It's one thing to have off-the-field issues and be winning, but there is not a single positive thing you can say that he's done for this program. But he's creating off-the-field distractions while puting a putrid team on the field. 3-9 is unacceptable for any team in the Big 10 - especially Michigan. A loss to Toledo? Two losses to Michigan State? Illinois? Purdue? In Michigan's worst year in its history, that shit shouldn't happen. 3-9 is a record Duke should have - not a record Michigan should ever come close to.

He is not a Big10 coach. He doesn't get it. I will fully admit I hated the hire from the beginning so I probably have less of a tolerance than a lot of you, but this circus has gone on long enough. Not counting the Delaware State win, this team will have started off 4-0 and go on to lose it's last 6. If that doesn't say something about the coach, I don't know what does.

And furthermore, if you're going to cheat like Rich Rod did with the practicing scandal, CHEAT THE RIGHT WAY! Do it like Tressel or Carroll and pay your fucking recruits to come there. Just another reason Rodriguez is inferior to the other coaches of the NCAA.

fools rush in.

commentators almost universally agree that coaches getting fired in less than 3 years is ridiculous. and i think thats true with only extreme exceptions. to me, to deserve being fired after 2 years requires unmitigated disaster (i think we're there) and no glimmer of hope. off field issues expediate this, but i still think practice-gate is utter bullshit and RR sucking wont change that.

but there are glimmers of hope. with a true frosh qb RR has gotten alot out of this offense. and when gardner gets here, RR and him could really get the ball moving. i have no comment on the defense, but we cant be a good team again til its no longer terrible.

my sense is the people who KNEW carr had to go would gladly take him back right now. and if we fire RR today, in 5 years we might regret not giving him more opportunity to succeed. 3-9 and 5-7 is pretty bad, but whats worse than that is years and years of 6-6 football.

Michigan hadn't had a 6-6 season in forever before this disaster, and there is no reason to believe if they hired a coach worth a shit he couldn't have this team 7-5 next year.

THIS ISN'T HIS TEAM YET. His approach is vastly different than Carr, but is still playing with Carr recruits. Ya can't tell a turtle to pull off a 4.5-40 and expect it to succeed, as you can't tell a Carr recruit brought in as a proper fit for a particular style of play to suddenly play like Pat White or Steve Slaton.

If next year also sucks, THEN fire his Mexi-hick ass. At least your conscience will be clear, knowing you gave the fool a chance.

Michigan hadn't had a 6-6 season in forever before this disaster, and there is no reason to believe if they hired a coach worth a shit he couldn't have this team 7-5 next year.

and what about the year after next? this is the exact line of reasoning that uber fucked michigan in the first place. "were michigan, its our birthright to win 10 games, play on 1/1, and any boob can do it". not so fast my friend.

im not saying RR is the guy, or even the best realistic option for next year. but i would hate to rush into a decision that we'll regret getting into in a couple years. especially when its still reasonable to think RR could eventually turn it around.

if ed martin can figure out his successor soon, and his successor then has a say in the selection, it could become more sensible to oust RR. it could even be to our advantage, as the AD to be could meet with prospect coaches without the embarrassing coverage as happened 2 years ago.

im not sure what the timetable of choosing the AD will be, though.

THIS ISN'T HIS TEAM YET. His approach is vastly different than Carr, but is still playing with Carr recruits. Ya can't tell a turtle to pull off a 4.5-40 and expect it to succeed, as you can't tell a Carr recruit brought in as a proper fit for a particular style of play to suddenly play like Pat White or Steve Slaton.

If next year also sucks, THEN fire his Mexi-hick ass. At least your conscience will be clear, knowing you gave the fool a chance.

Denny with a voice of reason. Holy shit. What's next Zip comes here and tells us to settle down?

Lloyd's recruits are his best players.

and what about the year after next? this is the exact line of reasoning that uber fucked michigan in the first place. "were michigan, its our birthright to win 10 games, play on 1/1, and any boob can do it". not so fast my friend.

im not saying RR is the guy, or even the best realistic option for next year. but i would hate to rush into a decision that we'll regret getting into in a couple years. especially when its still reasonable to think RR could eventually turn it around.


The line of thinking that fucked Michigan was "we're tired of 10 win seasons, let's kill the golden goose and eat the meat hoping for a NC".

I'm not on the "Fire Rich Rod Train" yet, but I am getting close. Like Jick said earlier, my expectations for this year were extremely low. I predicted 6-6 and if we got lucky, 7-5. The problem now is we got all excited when we beat ND and started out 4-0. Expectations went through the roof and people were predicting 8 and 9 wins, but that just wasn't realistic. On the other hand though, Illinois and Purdue turned out to be much worse than expected, and we still couldn't manage to beat those lower level teams who were struggling all across the board. No excuse for that, no excuse for losing 5 consecutive games and being last place in the Big Ten. Michigan will finish the year at 1-7 in the Big Ten and dead last. I realize that the "new program" is going to take time, but we should be better than losing 7 straight Big Ten games, and finishing last in the conference.

I know the offense has looked spotty at times, but you can't really blame them. Michigan leads the conference in scoring and scored 36 points yesterday and STILL lost the game.

I realize RR is an "offensive guy", but this defense is the worst in Michigan history and he has to be held responsible. I don't understand why Jordan Kovacs and Mike Williams continue to play at safety when 4 stars Vlad Emilien and Brandon Smith are on the roster. Can they be worse? No, it's not possible. Vlad may be redshirting, but put in Smith. Kovacs is pathetic and probably runs a 4.8.

In closing, I'm not saying "fire this guy" yet, but I am extremely frustrated. Michigan should never be this bad. I say he gets one more year and if Michigan doesn't finish with 7 or 8 wins, he's got to go. The character and scandal issues aren't helping either.

In closing, I'm not saying "fire this guy" yet, but I am extremely frustrated. Michigan should never be this bad. I say he gets one more year and if Michigan doesn't finish with 7 or 8 wins, he's got to go. The character and scandal issues aren't helping either.

7 or 8??? You're happy with that. It HAS to be more than that. Rodriguez is EIGHT and SIXTEEN in two years!!!! Nick Saban had Alabama undefeated and #1 most of the year in year 2 of his regime. A minimum of nine wins next year to keep his job (against a tougher schedule).

Whatever happens, hiring Rodriguez turned out to be an unmitigated disaster for Michigan football.

Brandon Smith plays LB. Not sure why everyone keeps thinking he is a safety. Our big problem is that we don't actually have any safeties to choose from on the roster.

Brandon Smith - 4* safety, turned into an ILB.
Stevie Brown - 4* safety, turned into an OLB.
Thomas Gordon - redshirting, only played QB in H.S.
Vlad Emelien - redshirting, missed his entire senior year with a knee injury.
Mike Jones - redshirting, moving to OLB.
Michael Williams - 4* safety, has moved back and forth between FS & SS several times and now has to learn the new system.


The thing that really bugs me is why people that play Safety in H.S. are moved to LB'er all of a sudden. They are two different skill sets and if a kid were playing Safety for 4 years of H.S. he has only learned to back pedal and read a QB's eyes and then you are asking him to add 10-20 pounds and learn to step up and take on pulling guards and fullbacks........AHHHHHHHHH.

But yet we get a guy like Cam Gordon who is already the size of a LB'er and has been passed on the depth chart by Je'Ron Stokes (fellow freshman) and has 40 WR's already above him plus 6 more WR's coming in next year. I don't necessarily believe its the coaching 100% that is wrong, I think its the schematic approach to defense. I don't care how bad it is the coaching staff should get their 3 years in the system and then a decision can be made on the future.

Sorry, just venting out of frustration!!!

I think you have to give him another year. That being said, I have my doubts he was the right hire now. You can chalk some losses up to not having his guys yet (lack of correct talent). But, he's made a lot of boneheaded mistakes regardless of the talent. He's basically been out coached in almost every game. Even the game they won in the big ten he was out coached.

Label me very skeptic at this point.

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8808/cmuav2.jpg

Done.

^As usual, Wiz brings it hard.

I've had a chance to let my anger subside from the Illinois game (and I didn't even really get that angry after the Purdue game because I knew Michigan was going to lose). Rich Rod needs to be gone after this season ends. I know the general thought that you need to give a coach at least three years, but this is different: If you were a betting man, would you say that he's going to turn it around next season? What does he have to do to change the opinion of him?

I think the only way he can instill some confidence in him is if he is within one or two games of winning the Big 10 next season. They should win all four of their non-conference games (3 patsies, Notre Dame) but then they'll need to get at least 5 or 6 wins in the Big 10 season. That's 9 or 10 wins. Anything less than that is unacceptable - 3 years of not even competing for a Big 10 championship would be failure beyond recognition.

So the question is, can you see that happening? The answer, if you don't have severe mental retardation, is no. There is no chance Rich Rod can do that next year. So he needs to be gone. And he needs to be fired after this year for the simple fact that he continues to get little guys that fit only his terrible system, and the Michigan team will be flooded with them before it's too late. We'll either be forced to find a coach like him, or have 3 more years of rebuilding. And if you want Michigan to become the dominant team it once was, they need to get a knock you out defense with a tough pound it out offense. Rich Rod hasn't recruited one of those players yet, and he obviously won't start now. Michigan cannot rebuild another 3 years after this debocle.

Firing Rich Rod is the only option Michigan has now.

^As usual, Wiz brings it hard.

I've had a chance to let my anger subside from the Illinois game (and I didn't even really get that angry after the Purdue game because I knew Michigan was going to lose). Rich Rod needs to be gone after this season ends. I know the general thought that you need to give a coach at least three years, but this is different: If you were a betting man, would you say that he's going to turn it around next season? What does he have to do to change the opinion of him?

I think the only way he can instill some confidence in him is if he is within one or two games of winning the Big 10 next season. They should win all four of their non-conference games (3 patsies, Notre Dame) but then they'll need to get at least 5 or 6 wins in the Big 10 season. That's 9 or 10 wins. Anything less than that is unacceptable - 3 years of not even competing for a Big 10 championship would be failure beyond recognition.

So the question is, can you see that happening? The answer, if you don't have severe mental retardation, is no. There is no chance Rich Rod can do that next year. So he needs to be gone. And he needs to be fired after this year for the simple fact that he continues to get little guys that fit only his terrible system, and the Michigan team will be flooded with them before it's too late. We'll either be forced to find a coach like him, or have 3 more years of rebuilding. And if you want Michigan to become the dominant team it once was, they need to get a knock you out defense with a tough pound it out offense. Rich Rod hasn't recruited one of those players yet, and he obviously won't start now. Michigan cannot rebuild another 3 years after this debocle.

Firing Rich Rod is the only option Michigan has now.

Only option? And then start over, and then can the next guy for not winning a NC after a year and a half? You talk about little guys and a terrible system. Well, those little guysand terrible system (who are all freshmen and sophomores) are leading the Big Ten in scoring at about 33 a game. The offense is solid and is only going to get better. RR needs to go hard after some defensive talent, and I question whether or not the "Barwis program" is going to be successful in the Big Ten. Sure, these dudes are agile and strong, but the D especially is very undersized and is being pushed around up front, getting no pressure on the QB, which is causing some serious issues.

Give Rich another year, then we'll talk. Although, I'm scared the defense is not going to improve next year, or even get worse if possible. We'll be losing our 3 best players in Graham, Stevie Brown, and probably Warren. If RR is hovering around 6 wins next year, he's in serious trouble.

Do you really think the anger directed at Rich Rod is because he hasn't won or been in contention for a National Championship in his first two years? The hatred on him is the fact that a) he's made a mockery of the Michigan program, b) he is setting new lows every game (accomplishing lows that haven't been accomplished in 50 years) and c) the program is still headed in the wrong direction. They are on pace to have LESS Big 10 wins than last season. LESS BIG TEN WINS THAN LAST SEASON.

If I had any faith that he would be the guy to turn it around I would say give him another year. But it's only going to get worse. Michigan needs to start the healing process now before the program flatlines.

but again, the offense for as frustrating as its been, has been good. maybe great, with a true frosh qb and no bail out 5 star reciever to carry him like some of our qb's in the past.

the defense has been an absolute joke. why? barwis? maybe. lack of talent? definitly. but who's fault is that? how many teams are carried by frosh and sophs on defense? the scheme with spinners and quicks? maybe that too. cissoko sucking and ultimately losing scholarship probably wasnt what RR was hoping for, and god has that killed us.

whatever the d's problem, its huge, and clearly RR has been more focused on offense. maybe he was so focused (like everyone else) on his offensive system the d has gone been a second concern. how much input does he even put into the d? i know last year he decided to implement his system, and purdue lit us up, so maybe defense isnt exactly his thing.

but he atleast brought in a highly regarded coordinator this year. he doesnt have much choice but to recruit the D and offensive lines like crazy for 2011. so maybe the d gets better with time.

theres very little to like about RR's tenure so far. but dont kid yourself and think it cant get worse. nebraska and notre dame fans will tell you otherwise.

i dont love the offense, but the #s are good. i hate the defense, but i honestly cant blame RR entirely, since i dont really understand why its so bad, and dont think it got to this state overnight. plus, the defense cant stay this bad forever, just because no one stays this bad.

but again, the offense for as frustrating as its been, has been good.
If he were the OC and not the HC, i'd by that as a legit "but again". I'm looking at the whole body of work, which he is responsible for. The fact that all he's done so far is provide what was expected on offense(gimmick play high scoring) is a bad thing imo. Nothing is a refreshing surprise so far outside of forcier's future as a qb.

Moeller was fired for less, IMO.
Moller was a better HC than Rich too. If we don't lower our standards for Carr or him, why are we doing so for Rich. It's not U of RR Academy, it's U of M. Defend him with something better than "the offene looks great or get in line with the mob. :)

Chuck Weis is gonna need a job.

My column in Tuesday's Oakland Press. Jim Harbaugh perfect fit for Michigan FB coach that Rodriguez is not http://tinyurl.com/y97zx7a

My column in Tuesday's Oakland Press. Jim Harbaugh perfect fit for Michigan FB coach that Rodriguez is not

That sounds just like him.

So if we get Harbaugh as our coach, we'll have a terrible team but we'll upset OSU and PSU every once in a while.

Harbaugh should be our coach because Mike Hart is struggling to make a practice squad.

Quick hypothetical:

If we get a gift from God and Rich Rod is fired this season, who would you pick as our next HC: Brian Kelly or Jim Harbaugh?

Kelly is in the RR mold, gimmicky offense, kind of a renegade, success at every level, not a "Michigan Man" etc.

If you are going to go that route, might as well stick with RR.

Considering this is the Big10+1, I'm wondering that, if it was defense that sparkled and the OFFENSE was underproducing, if we'd be having this argument


Agreed.... what?

but again, the offense for as frustrating as its been, has been good. maybe great, with a true frosh qb and no bail out 5 star reciever to carry him like some of our qb's in the past.

the defense has been an absolute joke. why? barwis? maybe. lack of talent? definitly. but who's fault is that? how many teams are carried by frosh and sophs on defense? the scheme with spinners and quicks? maybe that too. cissoko sucking and ultimately losing scholarship probably wasnt what RR was hoping for, and god has that killed us.

whatever the d's problem, its huge, and clearly RR has been more focused on offense. maybe he was so focused (like everyone else) on his offensive system the d has gone been a second concern. how much input does he even put into the d? i know last year he decided to implement his system, and purdue lit us up, so maybe defense isnt exactly his thing.

but he atleast brought in a highly regarded coordinator this year. he doesnt have much choice but to recruit the D and offensive lines like crazy for 2011. so maybe the d gets better with time.

theres very little to like about RR's tenure so far. but dont kid yourself and think it cant get worse. nebraska and notre dame fans will tell you otherwise.

i dont love the offense, but the #s are good. i hate the defense, but i honestly cant blame RR entirely, since i dont really understand why its so bad, and dont think it got to this state overnight. plus, the defense cant stay this bad forever, just because no one stays this bad.
This is such a steamimg pile of horse-shit excuse. I heard a guy on the morning sports radio show pointing out that the three recruiting classes prior to RR`s landing on Ann Arbor rock were all top ten. Moreover, almost all of the secondary players were top 20 nationally. RR has more talent on that team than Rita does in the sack, and that is saying something.

Seriously, trying to blame the utter implosion that is now UM football on lack of talent just makes you look like an even bigger douchebag.

I think a freshman QB and a marginal OL are definate excuses for Rich Rod (there have been dozens of drives wasted by snap difficulties alone). I agree that the talent on defense is not an excuse (there is plenty there).

This is such a steamimg pile of horse-shit excuse. I heard a guy on the morning sports radio show pointing out that the three recruiting classes prior to RR`s landing on Ann Arbor rock were all top ten. Moreover, almost all of the secondary players were top 20 nationally. RR has more talent on that team than Rita does in the sack, and that is saying something.

Seriously, trying to blame the utter implosion that is now UM football on lack of talent just makes you look like an even bigger douchebag.

well, bukky, i was actually pointing out that the lack of success was due to a ed crappy defense, and suggested maybe talent was an issue. i dont particularly care about class rankings and national ratings. we've got walk ons starting, true freshmen starting, positions that are horribly thin.

lack of talent is pretty obvious. whether RR or the dc havent coached them up proper is another matter.

coach b diddy thinks it could help alot if next year will campbell can start next to mike martin. it'd give us more size in the front seven, and allow us to take one of the other less talented guys off the field. not sure if depth at dt will allow this, though.

bump?

I've pretty much said I'll I've needed to say. There's nothing I can say after today that hasn't been said already.

But I can't make a post in here without a frustration insult: Fuck you Rich Rod with your inept playcalling and serious case of mental retardation.

complaining about the offense is like complaining that they chose the wrong style of wallpaper in the titanic... we moved the ball today pretty well against a good defense on a ranked team.

complaining about the offense is like complaining that they chose the wrong style of wallpaper in the titanic... we moved the ball today pretty well against a good defense on a ranked team.
Maybe you should root for some MAAC school, because for any legit big ten school that's not good enough. The offense was shitty if the opposing team had time to put up 45 points. No true ball control, playing from behind stat gimmicks? Richie Rod hasn't proven that he can control a game on offense, just rack up yards. You eat that garbage for breakfast if you must, don't require anyone else to blindly eat the turds Richie has been serving on a fake silver platter.

i think michigan is stuck with rodriguez for another year. If they dump him after this year, they won't get a decent coach after having dumped rodriguez so quickly. Plus, they would probably end up with another weak defensive recruiting class and weaker offensive class. Might as well give him one more chance. I don't think rodriguez will ever be a successful coach at um. Good coaches' teams do not fall apart midseason like this one has. i think the team will make a bowl game next year, but i hope that he leaves either next year or the following in hopes that someone better can be found.

Maybe you should root for some MAAC school, because for any legit big ten school that's not good enough. The offense was shitty if the opposing team had time to put up 45 points. No true ball control, playing from behind stat gimmicks? Richie Rod hasn't proven that he can control a game on offense, just rack up yards. You eat that garbage for breakfast if you must, don't require anyone else to blindly eat the turds Richie has been serving on a fake silver platter.
This is the problem with the spread offense or run 'n shoot or fun 'n gun or whatever hell else you want to call it. If you can't run the ball and control the clock you will have a very difficult time beating any above average team. Throw in a defense that plays horribly and you will generally lose 50-30. However, let me be clear, UM has way more than enough talent on defense to get the job done. The more I watch UM, the more it reminds me of MSU under JLS.

Though you have a reputation as an uppity douche ball licker, I mostly agree. Except sometimes your Defense is as good as your offense gives them a chance to be. If we were better at ball control, i think the defense would look somewhere closer to average. Also i think they are hampered by a 2nd rate coordinator who's a bum compared to the last few we've had.

Though you have a reputation as an uppity douche ball licker, I mostly agree. Except sometimes your Defense is as good as your offense gives them a chance to be. If we were better at ball control, i think the defense would look somewhere closer to average. Also i think they are hampered by a 2nd rate coordinator who's a bum compared to the last few we've had.

Isn't this defensive co-ordinator (you know, the super-genius previous head coach of a douchebag Syracuse team) the third one in three years? I believe he is. If RR has had a different DC every year he has been at UM, holy shit, what an inept head coach. You can't make that many bad decisions if you make a concious effort.

Ah, now he goes too far. I was worried for a sec.

Ah, now he goes too far. I was worried for a sec.
How did I go too far? Is this not RR's third DC in as many years? Is that not indicative of a head coach that has no clue? Hell, didn't he run the first guy out as a scapegoat for crappy defensive performance? Did not many on this board hail (pun intended) the arrival of Robinson (?-you know, the ex-Syracuse head coach) as a near defensive panacea? Is there not more than adequate defensive talent on UM?

I am afraid to many of you on this board reality has a gone too far bias.

I am afraid to many of you on this board reality has a gone too far bias.
One could easily apply this to you before alot of people here(except homerboys b-diddy and Willy Fagdezma).

complaining about the offense is like complaining that they chose the wrong style of wallpaper in the titanic... we moved the ball today pretty well against a good defense on a ranked team.

True to a point, but it all stems back to the Illinois game - if you need a couple of yards to score, don't run side to side flashy plays. Pound the fucking ball, put points on the board. That's just one of my 387 complaints about Rich Rod.

Can anyone remind me why there was not a replacement plan in place for Carr? No "home grown" assistants to take over once he decided to retire?

He's at Stanford.

He's at Stanford.
ooooo, now you dun done it!!!!!!

He's at Stanford.

He is actually at Florida. I think Lloyd will admit that one was blown a little bit.

This is the problem with the spread offense or run 'n shoot or fun 'n gun or whatever hell else you want to call it. If you can't run the ball and control the clock you will have a very difficult time beating any above average team. Throw in a defense that plays horribly and you will generally lose 50-30.

You are wrong and have learned nothing
The problem isn't having a spread offense. It's the fact that the defense sucks hard core and the offense keeps shooting itself in the foot with horrible OL play.\

In case you are wondering, Michigan out rushes Texas by 40 yards a game and is 21st in the country in that stat. Texas is 55th. BTW, MSU is 67th. So it isn't all about ball control.

I don't get it. Why is keeping tree logs mandatory? Maybe at Oregon, or maybe Stanford (the logo is a tree), but other than that?

Stupid NCAA. Next they'll have it mandatory to actually have a physical NCAA rulebook present in the fucking team facility. What nerve!

Does the log in my pants count?


No.

We had so many logs hanging around at WVa. I just got so sick of them. I mean, you can only make SO much firewood, right?


Yawn.

I like logs


"Punishment" is mandatory.

lol x 3

Grassroots effort to rename The Big House.

http://www.alamedainfo.com/One_Log_House_Redwood_Tree.jpg

It's got legs.

Zip never showed? He's nothin but ass hair.

Everything okay, T? You seem to be pretty pissed off the last couple of days.

^ No, I'm not ok. I need my Zip fix.

^ No, I'm not ok. I need my Zip fix.

I hope this suffices.

I'm sitting here, in Nebraska, watching Bo Pellini continue to turn around a disaster. 9-4, NYD Bowl win in Year One, and on his way this year (7-3 so far), and although Pellini is to offense what Rodriguez is to defense--that is a big difference. Many people think defensive coaches make better head coaches because of the old axiom "defenses win championships." It's also funny because WVU had some pretty good defenses under Rodriguez. I thought, and have written on MgoBlog (which I am back to dominating) that Rodriguez was surprised by his DC there (Jeff Casteel) staying, and hasn't recovered. Well, it also turns out Bill Stewart was pretty important to, as (I believe) his Special Teams coach AND his best recruiter. Hmmmmm

It seems to me Rodriguez was a victim here of a perfect storm (Michigan Fan terminology) of graduation, attrition, injury, coming in when all the construction was going on (hard to recruit in Year One when your spring game is held at Saline High School). In other words, the ENTIRE structure and infrastructure of UM football had been eroding for a long time, and at the end of it, UM needed to hire a coach.

But he was also the benefactor of a perfect storm in the bIg East. The three biggies left (his record against them was 8-11--and he was thrashed by VaTech in his last game against them--the season WVU went 11-1 and won the Sugar Bowl), his emergence, and well, being in the Big East and playing teams like Connecticut, Fart State U, etc. He simply dominated a weaker conference. One of the HUGE HUGE HUGE myths surrounding Rodriguez is that he won at WVU with "inferior talent"--uh, no he didn't.

Now, I remember saying "Rodriguez, fuck yeah! Suck my balls, and lick my ass!" when he was hired--but boy did it make me nervous. I remember when my friend Joel (bukdow?) called me to tell me that Mary Sue and Bill Martin were IN Toledo interviewing Rodriguez, and I thought, "Uhhhh...wow?" and then axed him, "Do you like this?" He said "Uh...yeah" and I was all right with it.

BUT--Rodriguez runs a "run oriented" spread--during one game WVU beat somebody like East Coast Rectum State 972-3, WVU had NINE passes (with Pat White). Zip don't like running offenses unless they are balanced with Chad Henne or Tom Brady and David Terrell or Mario Manningham.

But I rolled with Rodriguez--I think you work your way up the food chain, win at lower levels (he did) and get a job like this. It's worked for many others. Why not here? I wanted to go OUTSIDE the Bo Tree--fuck this Peter Principle stuff, and Lloyd had ZERO assistants I wanted to take over.

And then as Rodriguez took over, and couldn't find a DC--I began to worry. I thought a couple Lloyd guys should have been looked at: Erik Campbell at receivers coach. Why? UM receivers caught the ball, were physical, and loved to block. Running spread+that=WIN! I thought. Also, Bedord at DB coach. Good recruiter, had one year here and it saw improvement. And I thought: Hey! Ron English! You have NO DC, give him a title "Assistant Head Coach" and give him the defense, and let it go (turns out this might have some serious implications won the road--more on that later).

When he hired Shafer--I questioned it on Scout and boy did those lemmings come HARD down on me for that. I thought the players left by Carr on the DL were under=achievers, they'd be on their 3rd DC in 4 years (they all came in under Herrman), and the entire defense wasn't going to be as good as all thought. I was right--kind of.

I was right because that defense wasn't the 1985 Bears. But they would have been good enough had not the offense been the worst offense since, well, offenses were invented. They gave up 6 points to Toledo. They gave up 21 to Northwestern (shouldn't Michigan be able to score 22 against Northwestern?). They kept UM in the games against Illnois and Penn State long enough that if the team had ANY kind of offense, they had chances in those games. AND they kept UM in it against MSU. Held Utah to one TD in the second half. Held ND to one TD after the first quarter in which the special teams and offense kept giving the ball to Notre Dame on short fields (twice less than 15 yards). The one truly BAD game Shafer's defense had came when Rodriguez panicked, took the defense away from him and went with his "3-3-5" stack and UM gave up 48 to Purdue.

So they scapegoat Shafer in light of all that--and of course, to hide the true facts from UM fans: The offense sucked, and Rodriguez made a HUGE mistake shoving it down 2008 Michigan Football's throat.

I feel like I am the onliest one in the whole world who sees through the ruse regarding Shafer and the defense, but I press on because I'm fucking right.

That's all for now:

Next: Part 2

So everybody now thinks the defense sucks again and is blaming this season on them a yapping abou how the offense is "vastly improved" and "leads the Big Ten in scoring."

Do they? No. They are way down the pack in Big Ten scoring--and there's a difference. The overall "lead" in Big Ten scoring encompasses the OOC games against directional schools, defense-less Notre Dame, and 63 points against something called "Delaware State."

So let's look at Big Ten scoring, and talk about the offense and defense. UM scored 36 points against Indiana--winner of exactly ONE Big Ten game. UM scored 20 against MSU. A mediocre five-loss MSU team. And it was Tate Forcier going crazy again that got them there after 55 minutes of futility.

And then Iowa--the offense scored 21 points there (defense scored 7). The offense committed four turnovers and looked ridiculous otherwise in terms of clock management and penalties.

Aganst Penn State, the offense scored ten points and looked ridiculously inept for most of the game.

Illinois? Forget that shit. Purdue? well, after 24 first-half points, they were held in check until late in the game again. But, y'know, it was Purdue who is below 500 as usual.

Wisconsin? 17 points (defense scored 7).

If you call that improvement, go right ahead--and yes, I know there was a freshman leading the offense, but that freshman was finally "Rich's Guy" and so much more made for Rodriguez's spread than last year's guys. Plus, didn't he come in last January, so he had spring ball, summer drills, then fall camp and all that shit? And didn't UM start out 4-0, scoring all kinds of points?

The offense hasn't really improved except in the perception category: this year you do feel like they can score. Last year you did not.

And defensively, this year proves that last year wasn't Shafer's fault. It proves that the offense gives them no help and they are on the field too much. Yes, the defense is young and lacks talent--but when their backs are consistently up against the wall and they are on the field, AND the coaching is not up to par--well, we see the results.

I haven't seen a coach who needs "His Players" as much as Rodriguez apologists keep saying he does this much in my life. You can't keep falling back on that. Dantonio is winning with John L Smiff's players. Tressel won with John Cooper's players. Brian Kelly is winning with mark Dantonio's players. But ol' Dick Rod HAS to have HIS GUYS and those who don't understand that just don't know nothing bout no football.

Rodriguez can't coach the talent he inherited and I have a huge problem with that. He drove off numerous players. He drove off numerous commits. He will lose more transfers this year. He's driven off players who LOVED them some Michigan. And his army of apologists all toss them players under busses and rationalize that they just don't fit The System.

And what IS The System? First, it appears to be speedy midgets. And it appears to be smaller, faster linemen. And these guys are now expected to blick huge guys and stop huge guys--and while that worked at West Virginia where Rutgers and Connecticut came at you with 265 lbs lineman and 5'10 175 lbs receivers, and 6'0 215 lbs linebackers, it just doesn't seem to work at this level consistently. Oh, I know about the bowl-game anomalies. Yes, the army of apologists ALL scream "Georgia! Oklahoma!"--so TWO FUCKING GAMES a legend makes?

And guess what? Even the Mighty Barwis is on record as saying, "Give me Five-Star talent" so he can make the best of them and realize their higher potential. And again, though, this army of apologists was all over "Rodriguez don't care 'bout no stars, and neither do I"--except that NOW they scream about the lack of talent--and can only "neg-bang" me on MgoBlog when I remind them that Rodriguez, it was said, won with "inferior talent" at WVU.

Rodriguez rode into Ann Arbor thinking he was saving UM football from Lloyd Carr or Lloyd carr cronies. He rode into Ann Arbor like he was going to save UM from itself and UM wuld win just because he was there. And the similarities between this and Callahan at Nebraska are now eerily similar. The lack of cultural knowledge. The trashing of traditions and Michigan ways (game by game captains? Disciples?). Michigan IS Nebraska (except minus four NC's since 1970 and now flopping while Nebraska is headed up again). The records of the two since 1998 are: Nebraska has one more win and one more loss than UM overall. Nebraska has won more bowl games. Nebraska played for an NC in 2001. Check that, Michigan WISHES it were Nebraska. I love the comparisons made by UM fans to Nebraska. Shit, Nebraska football since 1970 kicks Michigan's ass all over the place. And it is now recovering nicely while UM sinks.

This hire didn't have to go this way. It will have its enemies within--every program has that. If fact, it looks like the press leaks came from a guy named Jim Stapleton, who wanted a black HC (English)--and possibly English himself. Yes, RR is and will be sabotaged--but by being a loser he is feeding the fire. By forgetting bout defense, he is creating a loser that will help feed the fire.

He talks about a "process"--well then, why fire Shafer? Shafer is gone probably because there was dissension on the defensive staff, but Shafer had no say in who his assistants were, and all were either cronies of Rodriguez or Jay Hopson. And now this guy Robinson--well, the defense is worse his season. But again, the offense gives little or no help for long stretches. How can you make adjustments on defense when they are on the field the whole game? How can you coach them when 75% of practice time is devoted to offense?

Jim Harbaugh? Fuck Yes. Michigan Man? Yeah, but training at other schools, a coach's son, midwest and west connections, a total gamer, and one of the better young coaches--the right mix and tons of passion. Should be hired the day after Rodriguez is fired the day after Ohio State kicks UM's ass.

Brian Kelly? Fuck Yes. Winner at THREE schools. A passing-oriented spread. Has a defense. Wins with OPG's. Can recruit to fucking Cincinnati. OSU WON'T schedule him.

The problem is: Who's the AD? Will someone pick up the phone and offer the job to Jim Harbaugh and Brian Kelly and tell them the first one to say YES! Michigan! has it?

I thought for awhile that you give Rodriguez one more year. But both of those guys (the two best out there) might be gone after this season and UM will not be significantly better next year--opportuniy lost. If Rodriguez is let go after next year (very likely)--then who the FUCK do they hire? Notre Dame will be out there---it's time to jump.

The verdict is that this thing looked good at first, but it has gone very very south and UM is now engulfed in a culture of losing that ONLY a transcendental guy can bring them out of. For Kelly, the players to run his scheme are in place. For Harbaugh, Michigan is The Place.

I agree you take a huge risk that Harbaugh and Kelly are at bigger programs next year.

As I said, I also think the defense has been ok and the offense shooting themselves in the foot has been the downfall. For the life of me I can't figure out why he uses Robinson the way he does. Tate has been very erratic at times, but the playcalling is bad and the OL is bad (plus he's a freshman), so I'm not sure how much I can put on him. Why is the OL so bad? I expect a team like OSU to beat them up front, but it's happening on a consistent basis.

well zip, you illustrate well how transitions can be difficult, especially when bringing staff member's who dont get the big 7 figure salaries. head coaches dont do it alone, so unless you get a saban or a meyer, you better be damn sure you know your getting the kit and kaboodle with them. none of this 'well, we didnt get the equipment manager, and he knew how to tie our shoes just right' bullshit.

of course, coaching is an inexact science. sometimes there are events well beyond your control that determine your fate.

i do find it funny that you want to bring in harbough and his paper thin resume (pun) based on a couple wins, but completely dismiss RR's couple wins at WV. and kelly's resume is identical to RR's pre michigan. so does kelly get the same 23 games RR did? 4 coaches in 6 years at michigan. how's that sound?

i also think your rather dismissive of RR's offense. considering the freshmen qbs, the injuries to our top two runners, recievers drop like flies, and molk's injury was big, this offense really has moved the ball well. RR hasnt done much well here, but i think you atleast got to credit him for the offense.

harbough does intrigue me. but really, he's not going to commit anywhere while michigan looms. why hire him before he's really proven himself? and why fire RR too soon? everything lines up so much better for a 2011 hiring.

Oh fuck me in the ear with all the goddamm apologies for Dick Rod.

I see you are also one of those "ZOMG! Michigan is all the sudden one big bucket of fail! We'll never be good again if we can Dick Rod!"

I don't give him credit for the offense--he's supposed to be some sort of "genius" with offense, and the offense, as I noted and detailed, isnn't so fucking great if you look at things deeper.

Less points against Illinois, MSU, Purdue, Wisconsin, and Penn State. And all those teams were WORSE than they were last year! You telling me UM wasn't good enough this year to improve on their 2-6 Big Ten record from last year in the much ballyhooed Year 2 of The Mighty Godriguez? (Yeah, I'm conceding a loss to Ohio State, but HEY! We'll robably score more than the seven we managed against them last year, so you can hang your top hat on that one)

As for Molk--he's had TWO fucking years to develop a back up center When he came in, he HAD to have taken a look at the lack of depth on the Oline and tried to do something. Especially center-- a most important position with shotgun snaps. But noooooooooooooooo

As for Harbaugh: This is one of those things that looks like a perfect match. Like Miles, the Michigan Man, but with a twist: he hasn't toiled in Ann Arbor for 35 years. He's been around, built up two other programs, can recruit like hell, wins, and Harbaugh has a set of BALLZ.

Rodriguez cries on camera, mopes and screams on the sidelines whenever something doesn't go wrong, and doesn't get Rivalries with a shit. Expecially here, where UM has a big bull's eye on its back.

You can talk about attrition all you want, but the fact is, at least some of it is self-induced, and he didn't need to destroy Michigan before his so called build-it-back-up. HE cost himself any goodwill by turning Michigan into a laughingstock--something you just can't do here.

Want to talk about all the other Big Programs who went through this? Fine, but NONE of them (except Penn State) made a comeback with the same coach who took them into the toilet. That ought to tell you something.

I think he's gone if UM gets boinked by OSU. But if they bring him back for one more year--what does anyone expect? UM is going to get a wrist-slap from the NCAA. It'll be enough to embarrass them--there's too much to this practice thing. Yeah, everyone does it, but someone at UM has been feeding this shit to the press, and whomever it is won't go away. So, while UM prepares for next year, you can bet NOBODY will be putting in more than the 20 hours, the coaches will NOT be anywhere near the players, and that is simply going to hurt them. And then next yera, more shit fed to the press, the team won't be much better (certainly not defensively)--and they'll be lucky to make a bowl. Then what? If he doesn't show significant progress and loses to all the Big Rivals, he'll be GONE for sure. I'm with Motwon: why put up with this for another year whe he'll be handcuffed, won't be able to take a shit without someone watching, and the team will suck again?

He has been able to manufacture TWO special moments here: beating Wisconsin last year (due directly to the defense, but he fired that guy) and Notre Dame this year--and Notre Dame is 6-4 so far this year. Wow. He has shown at least one thing: If they ain't EXACTLY his guys, he can't coach them. And just who the fuck are "his guys" and can he get them all?

I suppose I could be convinced to go along with a third year so he can coach his own recruits as they mature a little bit, but practically speaking--there are people at UM in high places who want him OOT, so what else can he do besides beat OSU this week and then win 8 or more next year?

Diddy, you spend much time laughing at other coaches, most notably Dantonio. But Dantonio has found a way to go 2-0 vs Dick Rod and will take his team to a third straight bowl game this year--and he did very well his first two years with someone else's players--players that fit an entirely different system. AND very few players who would find themselves recruited by Michigan. Hmmmmmm

I'm feeling better now.

mike wilbon reported that RR is done either way. the report is pretty shabby journalism, but noteworthy.

im really not a RR appologist. if you listed the pros on the cons of his performance, im thinking the ratio would be about 10 to 1 cons. and really, the only reason to bring him back is because coaches deserve 3 years. would his firing be a foregone conclusion? i dont know, i'd like to see what he can do with devin gardner. but i'd also like to enjoy a fall one of these years.

the lack of instant gratification has sucked, and the lack of progress is worrisome. but remember what people were saying after ND? winning is a cure all. obama ran the best campaign ever, except when mccain went ahead of him breafly in the polling for 2 weeks, at which time obama was a soft ninny who had no idea how to win an election. perception is the thin line between losing and winning. what if tate doesnt get concussed in iowa? or denard makes the proper read? or tate's throw is two feet to the left in MSU? tiny little plays that could have completely changed this season's outcome, and no one would be calling for his head.

sometimes you got to let people fail first. bruce springsteen was a commercial failure for several albums before he made it big. lucky for columbia they werent as impulsive as most sports fans.

harbaugh is interesting, though. but seriously, what if he fucks up too?

UM needs to get rid of RR as soon as the season is over. It has been shown time and time again his form of the spread will not work in the Big Ten. His whole approach (small linemen, "small, quick" slot receivers, etc.) won`t work in the Big Ten. Therefore, to continue down this road is silly. The next coach will just have a bigger re-tooling job.

Also, I am not sold on RR as being a good coach in the first place. As Richard from Nebraska pointed out, all of his success at WVU came after the the three best teams in the conference left. And don't even bring up Tulane, big fucking deal. I think RR is smoke and mirrors. He might be a good OC on a team with a defensive minded HC, but that is about it.

Harbaugh would be a great fit for UM. He gets it. He understands football is a physical sport and requires large, powerful participants and he would speak truth to power (i.e. tell the UM blue-bloods to shove it up their ass and stop this academic elitism myth) in a UM way that wouldn't rock the boat like a hillbilly and his hair-sprayed wife does. Frankly, RR is an embarrassment to UM. From the performance on the field, the players he brings in and his overall comportment. He is worse than JLS.

UM got had, its time to move on.

^I could copy and paste this post and it would be my thoughts exactly.

But will the guy who hired him and is retiring next year really want to rectify his mistake now? And if not, would Coleman have the ovarian fortitude to take of this herself?

I agree that Kelly's resume is pretty similar to RR's. Kelly has proven he's capable of running the spread against non-traditional powers and win. In his only two matchups against power teams he lost to Oklahoma and Va Tech. Nothing to be ashamed about, but he hasn't proven that he'd beat OSU/PSU in the big ten, or any Pac 10/SEC/Big 12 team in a bowl game either.

Harbaugh has at least proven he can win the big game. He's beaten two top 10 teams this year (Oregon and USC), and he beat USC 2 years ago. BTW, both were in their house. he's shown his brand of football can win in a tough conference. I would suspect he could do even more with the recruiting edge of Michigan (vs Stanford).

I agree that Kelly's resume is pretty similar to RR's. Kelly has proven he's capable of running the spread against non-traditional powers and win. In his only two matchups against power teams he lost to Oklahoma and Va Tech. Nothing to be ashamed about, but he hasn't proven that he'd beat OSU/PSU in the big ten, or any Pac 10/SEC/Big 12 team in a bowl game either.

Harbaugh has at least proven he can win the big game. He's beaten two top 10 teams this year (Oregon and USC), and he beat USC 2 years ago. BTW, both were in their house. he's shown his brand of football can win in a tough conference. I would suspect he could do even more with the recruiting edge of Michigan (vs Stanford).
I am not saying I necessarily disagree, but it seems I have heard this argument before.

The argument is true though. If you are saying it was also made for RR, that would be true as well. The reason Michigan is losing has nothing to do with him being able to get talent. I think he's just getting outcoached.

What type of offense does Standford run BTW?

Pro style.

The argument is true though. If you are saying it was also made for RR, that would be true as well. The reason Michigan is losing has nothing to do with him being able to get talent. I think he's just getting outcoached.

What type of offense does Standford run BTW?
If I am not mistaken, one of the more popular excuses used in RR's defense is that there is a lack of talent.

Pro style.
Neanderthals.

If I am not mistaken, one of the more popular excuses used in RR's defense is that there is a lack of talent.
Yeah that's just a defense he uses. There is not a lack of talent. There is a lack of coaching. And a lack of development.

If I am not mistaken, one of the more popular excuses used in RR's defense is that there is a lack of talent.

It's not my excuse. I might have said that before the season, but I saw enough plays made in games to show me the talent is there to at least be an 8 win team. A poor game plan and lack of consistency has to fall on the coaches.

IF Rich gets canned, I'm torn between Miles and Harbaugh. I think I'm leaning towards Miles, which do you guys prefer?

all this talk about the spread not working/ never working i guess requires forgetting that illinois just went to the rose bowl and NW lighting up the big ten a decade ago?

more, offense really isnt the team's problem. RR has a rep of offense, and since the team has sucked i guess people just make the conclusion that the offense therefore sucks. its the defense.

and as for blaming the defense on the offense not staying on the field? c'mon. it doesnt matter if its the first drive or the last, the defense sucks every single time. maybe the offense compounds it, but the defense sucks in its own right. no doubt about that.

Take this to the bank:

The spread will work anywhere, IF it is a "pass oriented" spread with a defense to back it up.

DickRod's spread will not work--and he totally disregards defense--because it is a run-oriented spread.

Do I know what I'm talking about?

Fuck no. I make shit up as I go along. But it always seems to work out in my favor, except for that time I found myself in Bangladesh with Rupaul and James Darren.

Good to have you back, Zip.

hey to agree with him, but the little fella nailed it:

http://www.freep.com/article/20091120/COL01/911200348/1319/Should-Ohio-St.-game-be-a-Waterloo-for-Rich-Rod?

IF Rich gets canned, I'm torn between Miles and Harbaugh. I think I'm leaning towards Miles, which do you guys prefer?

Why would Miles leave now? He'd have a worse transition than he would have from Lloyd (who had players more his style).

hey to agree with him, but the little fella nailed it:

http://www.freep.com/article/20091120/COL01/911200348/1319/Should-Ohio-St.-game-be-a-Waterloo-for-Rich-Rod?

Honestly, I didn't know he still wrote for the paper.

hey to agree with him, but the little fella nailed it:

http://www.freep.com/article/20091120/COL01/911200348/1319/Should-Ohio-St.-game-be-a-Waterloo-for-Rich-Rod?
I don't think he "nailed" shit. All he did was come down on one side of the argument.

Everybody understands the ramifications of what could be considered a premature firing of RR. But, you have to honestly look at the situation and decide which tack is better. Keeping RR around and hoping against mounting evidence that things will turn around, let alone surpass what Lloyd Carr was able to achieve. Or, cut bait and go in another direction.

I don't think he "nailed" shit. All he did was come down on one side of the argument.

Everybody understands the ramifications of what could be considered a premature firing of RR. But, you have to honestly look at the situation and decide which tack is better. Keeping RR around and hoping against mounting evidence that things will turn around, let alone surpass what Lloyd Carr was able to achieve. Or, cut bait and go in another direction.


I agree here, but the prevailing thought that firing him is still something that most are not going to do after just two years. If UM is the suck again next year, Dick Rod has to go--and he will.

The problem I have with it is there is a serious element of people in UM's athletic department and surrrounding the program that want him gone, and never wanted him in the first place. Thus, all the leaks of practice shit, RR's business deal, the flap over the team GPA thing, and whatever else. I find it hard to believe Rodriguez would be able to function in such a hostile environment--and every move he makes during this offseason will be watched and written about. He may have victimized himself with some bad moves and hires, but the purposeful leaking of stories, the NCAA investigation (which for some goddamm reason UM invited them in with open arms), the silly practice log thing (NOT an NCAA requirement) tells me this stuff isn't going away--not even with a win over OSU.

It will be all the more ugly after OSU tags them with a loss. Either Tressel turns it up and whomps Rodriguez--like 55-10, or, even worse, he feels sorry for Michigan and, as Milton Berle used to say, pull out just enough of his dick to beat you.

I agree here, but the prevailing thought that firing him is still something that most are not going to do after just two years. If UM is the suck again next year, Dick Rod has to go--and he will.

The problem I have with it is there is a serious element of people in UM's athletic department and surrrounding the program that want him gone, and never wanted him in the first place. Thus, all the leaks of practice shit, RR's business deal, the flap over the team GPA thing, and whatever else. I find it hard to believe Rodriguez would be able to function in such a hostile environment--and every move he makes during this offseason will be watched and written about. He may have victimized himself with some bad moves and hires, but the purposeful leaking of stories, the NCAA investigation (which for some goddamm reason UM invited them in with open arms), the silly practice log thing (NOT an NCAA requirement) tells me this stuff isn't going away--not even with a win over OSU.

It will be all the more ugly after OSU tags them with a loss. Either Tressel turns it up and whomps Rodriguez--like 55-10, or, even worse, he feels sorry for Michigan and, as Milton Berle used to say, pull out just enough of his dick to beat you.
Good old Uncle Milty. He also used to say that everytime a deli served pastrami on white bread a Jew died.

4-0 to 4-7 (no I will not count D-State as a victory). If that isn't the epitomy of a meltdown, I don't know what is. 1 less Big Ten victory than last year. If this guy keeps his job, I'm not watching a Michigan Football game until that piece of Trailer Trash is canned.

:motown owns:

They're going to give him a third year.

Going to suck not having you in the game threads next season, Mo! Even though you hardly post in them anyway.

I'll cut him some slack, he did beat the spread. Did they carry him off?

They're going to give him a third year.

Going to suck not having you in the game threads next season, Mo! Even though you hardly post in them anyway.
I'll post in the Fire Him thread all year instead. I'm sure that will be a fair enough trade off.

HIRE LES MILES. HIRE LES MILES!!!! HE'S AS FUCKING INEPT AS RR!!!

HE'LL BE A PERFECT FIT.

There is nothing wrong with RR... he inherited shit... he's a very good coach.

It's like blaming Obama for the failing financial industry.

There is nothing wrong with RR... he inherited shit... he's a very good coach.

It's like blaming Obama for the failing financial industry.
This has to be a green text comment. Please let this be a green text comment. You're better than this, mercury.

No green... history has my back

There is nothing wrong with RR... he inherited shit... he's a very good coach.

It's like blaming Obama for the failing financial industry.
This never gets old. Please, show said history having your back.

Here is how awful the program was under Lloyd Carr,
"Under Carr, the Wolverines record was 122–40, they won or shared five Big Ten titles (in 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, and 2004), and the 1997 team was declared the Associated Press national champion."

Indeed, such a record could only have been amassed by a team chock-full of inferior talent.

RR was a good coach, at WVU. That doesn't mean he'll be a good coach at U of M. Look at Marty with the Lions. Good OC for the Eagles, terrible HC. Coaches get promoted until they get a job that exceeds their abilities. This may be a case of that. Good coaches find a way to win with good players that aren't %100 their style.

Glad none of you guys isn't my boss at work.

YOU STILL DON'T KNOW HOW TO PREPARE A SUPERSIZED EXTREME PLATTER. IT'S BEEN TWO DAYS. GTFO. YOU'RE FIRED, KID.

C'mon. To say he didn't inherit a 'cupboard' closer to empty than to full is incredibly harsh/false. Give him another year. He had freaking Steven Threet in at QB in year 1. Forcetheplay in year 2. At least the Frenchman will be a sophomore next year. Returning a bunch of starters. Make or break next year. No question about that. Seven wins minimum.

This is still Michigan Football. If we want to stick with your example, Shoopy, it would be like hiring you to make Value Meals at Taco Bell but instead of remembering that beans go in between both shells on a Double Decker Taco, you show up to work tripping on mushrooms and shit all over the Fire Sauce.

It's not that he didn't win the Big 10, it's that he's been historically bad. He has been an embarassment on and off the field. 3-13 in the Big 10 isn't acceptable for Illinois, much less Michigan. If I had any faith that he had any chance of turning this around next season, I'd say give him a year. All that's going to happen is he'll have another terrible season and we'll have more of his 5'9, 195 lb offensive linemen taking up our scholarships. For every year he stays, it'll be an additional year of rebuilding.

Oh and don't forget that the reason the "talent" isn't there is because HE MADE THEM TRANSFER!

This never gets old. Please, show said history having your back.

Since you asked:

In 2003, Rodriguez and his Mountaineers finished tied for first in the Big East standings, the first of three straight conference titles.

In 2005 the Mountaineers had their best ever season under Rodriguez. With a final record of 11-1, West Virginia finished No. 5 in the national polls after a surprising 38-35 win over the Georgia Bulldogs in the Nokia Sugar Bowl.

Since 2005, Rodriguez' Mountaineers have a combined record of 32-5. The team finished 11-2 in in 2006 and finished 10-2 in 2007.

2000
Rush Offense - 236.36 YPG (10th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 220.18 YPG (14th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 210.1 YPG (63rd in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 225.3 YPG (45th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 446.45 YPG (10th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 445.45 YPG (11th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 36.0 (14th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 33.91 (17th in NCAA)

2001
Rush Offense - 181.09 YPG (36th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 146.64 YPG (64th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 164.6 YPG (96th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 214.1 YPG (65th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 345.73 YPG (80th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 360.73 YPG (70th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 21.36 (89th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 27.55 (54th in NCAA)

2002
Rush Offense - 283.62 YPG (2nd in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 148.38 YPG (59th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 134.8 YPG (108th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 232.8 YPG (44th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 418.46 YPG (18th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 381.15 YPG (52nd in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 30.46 (33rd in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 27.77 (54th in NCAA)

2003
Rush Offense - 212.46 YPG (13th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 175.92 YPG (38th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 156.5 YPG (105th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 270.8 YPG (22nd in NCAA)

Total Offense - 368.92 YPG (72nd in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 446.69 YPG (15th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 28.92 (40th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 35.38 (12th in NCAA)

2004
Rush Offense - 252.83 YPG (7th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 153.58 YPG (61st in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 166.1 YPG (104th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 232.9 YPG (45th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 418.92 YPG (26th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 386.50 YPG (46th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 30.8 (29th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 30.83 (24th in NCAA)

2005
Rush Offense - 272.42 YPG (4th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 161.58 YPG (44th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 116.5 YPG (115th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 222.7 YPG (61st in NCAA)

Total Offense - 388.92 YPG (50th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 384.25 YPG (55th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 32.08 (31st in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 28.75 (45th in NCAA)

2006
Rush Offense - 303.8 YPG (2nd in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 175.54 YPG (21st in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 158.4 YPG (100th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 195.2 YPG (64th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 461.38 YPG (5th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 370.77 YPG (38th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 38.85 (3rd in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 29.23 (26th in NCAA)

2007
Rush Offense - 292.92 YPG (4th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 166.08 YPG (44th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 157.6 YPG (113th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 207.4 YPG (73rd in NCAA)

Total Offense - 450.50 YPG (19th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 373.50 YPG (74th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 38.92 (11th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 26.08 (68th in NCAA)
In 2003 faced with the task of replacing 22 seniors (11 of them starters), the school’s career rushing leader and the majority of the offensive and defensive lines, repeating the programs success. Entering the BIG EAST portion of the schedule, however, Rodriguez convinced his team of the opportunity ahead of it, and the rest proved one of the great chapters in West Virginia football history.
After losing a remarkable 22-20 game at No. 2 Miami in the final two minutes, West Virginia won seven straight games from that point, posting a 6-1 conference record and tying the Hurricanes for the BIG EAST championship to earn a New Year’s Day bowl berth in Jacksonville’s Toyota Gator Bowl.
WVU claimed four of the last five Big East championships and recorded three consecutive seasons (2005-07) of double-digit victories for the first time in school history. The Mountaineers recorded at least eight wins in each of the last six seasons, and since 2002 have accumulated a record of 57-16, winning 78.1 percent of their games.
West Virginia, with a 10-1 regular season record, was undefeated on the road despite playing a nucleus of freshmen and sophomores. The young Mountaineers were invited to play SEC champion Georgia in the Nokia Sugar Bowl, and WVU stunned the higher-ranked Bulldogs, 38-35, in Atlanta’s Georgia Dome for West Virginia’s first-ever BCS game win. Finishing the season 11-1, West Virginia ranked fifth and sixth in the final polls.
In 2006, the Mountaineers finished 10th in the national polls at 11-2 behind a pair of All-Americans and the Big East Player of the Year. In 2004 and 2005, Rodriguez's teams claimed conference titles, as the 2005 squad went on to record WVU's first BCS victory, a 38-35 upset over Georgia in the Sugar Bowl.

He was credited with the first back-to-back Top 10 finishes in school history, four consecutive New Year's bowl appearances (joining USC as the only program at the time to do so
West Virginia's 48-28 upset of then-No. 3 Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl only confirms that Michigan made a wise choice in selecting Rich Rodriguez as its next head coach.
Rodriguez didn't coach his former team against Oklahoma, but he is the one who put the Mountaineers together

2005 West Virginia 11-1, 6-0 Big East champion Sugar Bowl/W, 38-35 (Georgia)
2006 West Virginia 11-2, 5-2 Gator Bowl/W, 38-35 (Georgia Tech)
2007 West Virginia 10-2, 5-2 Big East champion Fiesta Bowl (Oklahoma)

Three straight BIG EAST championships. A Top 5 finish. Three straight New Year’s Day bowl game appearances and a Sugar Bowl victory. Six wins over Top 25 teams


Again, Rodriguez has a history of being a solid coach Bukdow

Since you asked:

In 2003, Rodriguez and his Mountaineers finished tied for first in the Big East standings, the first of three straight conference titles.

In 2005 the Mountaineers had their best ever season under Rodriguez. With a final record of 11-1, West Virginia finished No. 5 in the national polls after a surprising 38-35 win over the Georgia Bulldogs in the Nokia Sugar Bowl.

Since 2005, Rodriguez' Mountaineers have a combined record of 32-5. The team finished 11-2 in in 2006 and finished 10-2 in 2007.

2000
Rush Offense - 236.36 YPG (10th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 220.18 YPG (14th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 210.1 YPG (63rd in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 225.3 YPG (45th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 446.45 YPG (10th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 445.45 YPG (11th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 36.0 (14th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 33.91 (17th in NCAA)

2001
Rush Offense - 181.09 YPG (36th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 146.64 YPG (64th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 164.6 YPG (96th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 214.1 YPG (65th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 345.73 YPG (80th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 360.73 YPG (70th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 21.36 (89th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 27.55 (54th in NCAA)

2002
Rush Offense - 283.62 YPG (2nd in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 148.38 YPG (59th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 134.8 YPG (108th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 232.8 YPG (44th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 418.46 YPG (18th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 381.15 YPG (52nd in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 30.46 (33rd in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 27.77 (54th in NCAA)

2003
Rush Offense - 212.46 YPG (13th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 175.92 YPG (38th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 156.5 YPG (105th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 270.8 YPG (22nd in NCAA)

Total Offense - 368.92 YPG (72nd in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 446.69 YPG (15th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 28.92 (40th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 35.38 (12th in NCAA)

2004
Rush Offense - 252.83 YPG (7th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 153.58 YPG (61st in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 166.1 YPG (104th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 232.9 YPG (45th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 418.92 YPG (26th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 386.50 YPG (46th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 30.8 (29th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 30.83 (24th in NCAA)

2005
Rush Offense - 272.42 YPG (4th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 161.58 YPG (44th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 116.5 YPG (115th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 222.7 YPG (61st in NCAA)

Total Offense - 388.92 YPG (50th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 384.25 YPG (55th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 32.08 (31st in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 28.75 (45th in NCAA)

2006
Rush Offense - 303.8 YPG (2nd in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 175.54 YPG (21st in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 158.4 YPG (100th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 195.2 YPG (64th in NCAA)

Total Offense - 461.38 YPG (5th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 370.77 YPG (38th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 38.85 (3rd in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 29.23 (26th in NCAA)

2007
Rush Offense - 292.92 YPG (4th in NCAA)
Michigan Rush Offense - 166.08 YPG (44th in NCAA)

Passing Offense - 157.6 YPG (113th in NCAA)
Michigan Passing Offense - 207.4 YPG (73rd in NCAA)

Total Offense - 450.50 YPG (19th in NCAA)
Michigan Total Offense - 373.50 YPG (74th in NCAA)

Scoring Offense - 38.92 (11th in NCAA)
Michigan Scoring Offense - 26.08 (68th in NCAA)
In 2003 faced with the task of replacing 22 seniors (11 of them starters), the school’s career rushing leader and the majority of the offensive and defensive lines, repeating the programs success. Entering the BIG EAST portion of the schedule, however, Rodriguez convinced his team of the opportunity ahead of it, and the rest proved one of the great chapters in West Virginia football history.
After losing a remarkable 22-20 game at No. 2 Miami in the final two minutes, West Virginia won seven straight games from that point, posting a 6-1 conference record and tying the Hurricanes for the BIG EAST championship to earn a New Year’s Day bowl berth in Jacksonville’s Toyota Gator Bowl.
WVU claimed four of the last five Big East championships and recorded three consecutive seasons (2005-07) of double-digit victories for the first time in school history. The Mountaineers recorded at least eight wins in each of the last six seasons, and since 2002 have accumulated a record of 57-16, winning 78.1 percent of their games.
West Virginia, with a 10-1 regular season record, was undefeated on the road despite playing a nucleus of freshmen and sophomores. The young Mountaineers were invited to play SEC champion Georgia in the Nokia Sugar Bowl, and WVU stunned the higher-ranked Bulldogs, 38-35, in Atlanta’s Georgia Dome for West Virginia’s first-ever BCS game win. Finishing the season 11-1, West Virginia ranked fifth and sixth in the final polls.
In 2006, the Mountaineers finished 10th in the national polls at 11-2 behind a pair of All-Americans and the Big East Player of the Year. In 2004 and 2005, Rodriguez's teams claimed conference titles, as the 2005 squad went on to record WVU's first BCS victory, a 38-35 upset over Georgia in the Sugar Bowl.

He was credited with the first back-to-back Top 10 finishes in school history, four consecutive New Year's bowl appearances (joining USC as the only program at the time to do so
West Virginia's 48-28 upset of then-No. 3 Oklahoma in the 2008 Fiesta Bowl only confirms that Michigan made a wise choice in selecting Rich Rodriguez as its next head coach.
Rodriguez didn't coach his former team against Oklahoma, but he is the one who put the Mountaineers together

2005 West Virginia 11-1, 6-0 Big East champion Sugar Bowl/W, 38-35 (Georgia)
2006 West Virginia 11-2, 5-2 Gator Bowl/W, 38-35 (Georgia Tech)
2007 West Virginia 10-2, 5-2 Big East champion Fiesta Bowl (Oklahoma)

Three straight BIG EAST championships. A Top 5 finish. Three straight New Year’s Day bowl game appearances and a Sugar Bowl victory. Six wins over Top 25 teams


Again, Rodriguez has a history of being a solid coach Bukdow
I thought you were saying history had your back regarding the fact the cupboard was bare when he got to AA.

However, didn't the majority of RR's success (in the Big East, mind you) come after the top three teams left?

In two years of recruiting (2009 and 2010), RR has so far signed two OL. Thats right, two. A position that has the steepest learning curve that UM seems to have a need at and RR signs two. In that same time, he has signed 12 WR/ATH types. That seems like an awful lot of planes and no infantry.

bukky, you're wrong about the OL signings.

In 2008, if you discount the Lloyd commits, DickRod added Patrick Omameh and Ricky Barnum late. Then in 2009, he signed Taylor Lewan, Michael Schofield, and Quentin Warshington. This year UM has a committment from Christian Pace.

So far, all have been reshirted--I'm sure Pace will be as well. The first five are pretty highly regarded while Pace appears to be one of DickRod's "Diamonds in the rough."

That makes SIX OL in his time here--an entire offensive line! FWIW--the recruiting classes of 2008 and 2009 were both ranked in the Top 15, which is usually about where Michigan has been. So far this year, UM is holding at #19 (my source is Scout)--with some recruits reportedly about to drop their way.

The problems though, as Motwon states, are shoving the spread down the throat of a team not capable of playing it, and the attrition--which I DO believe falls on DickRod's shoulders no matter how much Michigan fans want to trash the players who left. When you consider that recruiting classes probably always have significant washout (players who don't contribute)--UM is in trouble unless the 2008, 09, and 10 class produce much higher than normal results in terms of difference makers and real contributors.

What DickRod has done, IMO, is cost himself a LOT of early coaching enthusiasm/momentum by putting such a horrid product on the field, which has turned those who support him so avidly into human excuse machines.

I was never one in favor of the implosion of the program that DickRod and his most fervent supporters seem to feel was necessary. UM, as YOU have stated many times, needed tweaking more than destruction/rebuilding. You simply do not waltz into a place like Michigan and disintegrate 40 years of pretty damn darn goodness, and yack it up like you are here to save the program from itself--and then turn it into a laughingstock. AND don't do that while pouting, screaming, yelling at young players who don't understand your system, or crying at press conferences.

It should have taken Dick Rod about 4 minutes to see that he was in a hostile environment as well, and a program that was pretty proud of itself (even if lost in a bit of a Grand Delusion)--and tone things down a bit, but apparently he did not.

He's in it up to his neck, and deservedly so. But DAYM it's nice to be paid $3 Mill, turn out The Suck, and have an army of rationalizers at your back.

I don't care about historically bad. I really don't. Bad is bad. I care about historically good.

I see you completely left out defense in your argument, mercury. Kind of similar to what Rich Rod does.

bukky, you're wrong about the OL signings.

In 2008, if you discount the Lloyd commits, DickRod added Patrick Omameh and Ricky Barnum late. Then in 2009, he signed Taylor Lewan, Michael Schofield, and Quentin Warshington. This year UM has a committment from Christian Pace.

So far, all have been reshirted--I'm sure Pace will be as well. The first five are pretty highly regarded while Pace appears to be one of DickRod's "Diamonds in the rough."

That makes SIX OL in his time here--an entire offensive line! FWIW--the recruiting classes of 2008 and 2009 were both ranked in the Top 15, which is usually about where Michigan has been. So far this year, UM is holding at #19 (my source is Scout)--with some recruits reportedly about to drop their way.

The problems though, as Motwon states, are shoving the spread down the throat of a team not capable of playing it, and the attrition--which I DO believe falls on DickRod's shoulders no matter how much Michigan fans want to trash the players who left. When you consider that recruiting classes probably always have significant washout (players who don't contribute)--UM is in trouble unless the 2008, 09, and 10 class produce much higher than normal results in terms of difference makers and real contributors.

What DickRod has done, IMO, is cost himself a LOT of early coaching enthusiasm/momentum by putting such a horrid product on the field, which has turned those who support him so avidly into human excuse machines.

I was never one in favor of the implosion of the program that DickRod and his most fervent supporters seem to feel was necessary. UM, as YOU have stated many times, needed tweaking more than destruction/rebuilding. You simply do not waltz into a place like Michigan and disintegrate 40 years of pretty damn darn goodness, and yack it up like you are here to save the program from itself--and then turn it into a laughingstock. AND don't do that while pouting, screaming, yelling at young players who don't understand your system, or crying at press conferences.

It should have taken Dick Rod about 4 minutes to see that he was in a hostile environment as well, and a program that was pretty proud of itself (even if lost in a bit of a Grand Delusion)--and tone things down a bit, but apparently he did not.

He's in it up to his neck, and deservedly so. But DAYM it's nice to be paid $3 Mill, turn out The Suck, and have an army of rationalizers at your back.
OK, my mistake on the number of OL recruits. I was going by ESPN. Nontheless, I think the bolded portion of your post is a good point. RR has come into AA and acted like a super-douche. Good thing he is an inbred hillbilly because with all of the finger-pointing he is doing he needs all fourteen of his fingers.

That's funny.

OK, my mistake on the number of OL recruits. I was going by ESPN. Nontheless, I think the bolded portion of your post is a good point. RR has come into AA and acted like a super-douche. Good thing he is an inbred hillbilly because with all of the finger-pointing he is doing he needs all fourteen of his fingers.

well bukky there's your mistake: using ESPN for research. Maybe you should use your teeth to count offensive linemen that UM recruits. You probably have six of 'em.

well bukky there's your mistake: using ESPN for research. Maybe you should use your teeth to count offensive linemen that UM recruits. You probably have six of 'em.
Meh. A little Jack Russell Terrier, a little Pappillon.

"It's really kind of ironic that the New Orleans Saints overcame the hurricane a few years back....We've had a few hurricanes of our own. We had a big hurricane in August....but don't tell me this team is a failure."