Bad rep or bad rap: History suggests Allen Iverson can be blessing, or curse, for his coach

By Scott Cacciola
Posted October 27, 2009

Allen Iverson, wearing a white T-shirt and baggy blue shorts, sank seven straight set shots from the right elbow, each attempt eliciting cheers from an enthusiastic crowd before an open scrimmage at Memphis University School eight days ago. It was a rare public viewing of Iverson in action this preseason: He missed all eight of the Grizzlies' exhibition games, a partial tear in his left hamstring limiting him to the training room and a spot at the end of the bench.

And that was where he planted himself when his teammates began playing without him at MUS, a good 40 feet of high school hardwood separating him from coach Lionel Hollins, who figures to own one of the most challenging jobs in the NBA this winter.

Iverson's time in Detroit was marked by controversy, but then-teammate Richard Hamilton backs up Iverson's claim that coach Michael Curry lied about Iverson's role.
Iverson long ago cemented his status as one of the finest athletes of his generation, a high-scoring guard celebrated for playing with an energy that borders on recklessness. But he also is notorious for his clashes with coaches, and if his injury freed Hollins from making a difficult decision — start Iverson, or bring him off the bench? — then it also delayed the process of incorporating him into the lineup.

When the Grizzlies open the regular season against the Detroit Pistons at FedExForum on Wednesday night, they most likely will be without Iverson, who has been limited to non-contact drills. As his return draws closer, his relationship with Hollins will be studied and scrutinized, a delicate partnership framed by Iverson's infamous blowups with Larry Brown — and by his experiences last season with the Pistons.

"I've had a lot of success in this league," Iverson said, "and when I hear those things about being uncoachable and not practicing — I never would've accomplished the things I've accomplished without those two significant parts of being a professional basketball player. It's a bad rap."

His image took an enormous hit last season because of his dealings with then-Pistons coach Michael Curry. In a recent interview with ESPN.com, Iverson accused Curry of lying to him about his role on the team when he was acquired in an early-season trade with the Denver Nuggets. Iverson said he had been assured by Curry that he would always be a starter before he began to hear whispers that he would be used off the bench.

He missed 16 games near the end of the season with a back injury. According to Iverson, Curry told him that his teammates would quit on him if he refused to come off the bench upon his return. Iverson played in three games as a reserve, but felt so disrespected that he decided to remove himself from the equation entirely: He sat out the final seven games of the regular season and the Pistons' playoff series with Cleveland.

In an interview earlier this month at FedExForum, Pistons swingman Richard Hamilton supported Iverson's account of the situation.

"M.C. lied to us a million times," Hamilton said of Curry. "He sat me and A.I. down one time and was like, 'I'm going to lean on both of you the whole year, just don't go to the media. Say you'll do whatever for the team and blah blah blah.' This was a week before he brought me off the bench. He lied. So I feel for what Allen said."

He added: "I think the person that we had didn't know how to take advantage of (our roster). Instead of taking advantage of it, he killed it."

Hamilton also discredited the idea that the Pistons, although upset about losing Chauncey Billups in the trade with the Nuggets, were unwilling to accept Iverson as a teammate. Asked if he ever had any problems with Iverson, Hamilton said: "Oh, no, no, no. We loved him, he loved us. We were all friends, we were all brothers. Like I said, certain people make it complicated when it shouldn't be complicated."

It appears that Curry violated one of the NBA's unspoken codes: A coach must be honest with his players. Curry, at least according to Iverson and Hamilton, was less than honest. And considering the star player with whom he was dealing, Curry could not have made a more disastrous blunder. That mistake, and others, wound up costing him his job after only one season. Attempts to reach Curry for comment were unsuccessful.

But Iverson also paid a heavy price — in the court of public opinion and on the free-agent market. By telling the media that he would rather retire than come off the bench, Iverson reinforced the perception that he was a me-first player. He is known for his candor, not his tact.

What Iverson demands more than anything is respect, which also helps to explain why he and Brown, his coach with the Philadelphia 76ers, so often sparred. It was the NBA's most riveting soap opera for six seasons.

More here: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/oct/27/bad-rep-or-bad-rap/

Of course, the local media hacks are asleep at the wheel, again.

Asked if he ever had any problems with Iverson, Hamilton said: "Oh, no, no, no. We loved him, he loved us. We were all friends, we were all brothers. Like I said, certain people make it complicated when it shouldn't be complicated."

Yeah, that's convincing.

No fucking shit, why would Rip not say anything to a local guy but spills hit guts here? No one asked the question? ASB is a prick? Awful.

Oh, and fuck Curry.

Curry's got to be done as far as getting another job in the league, right?

he should never have had a chance to begin with.

Someone always needs a cowering snitch.

So much more prepared than Laimbeer.

So once again the local media whitewashes the real story throughout the season only to have it spill out later.

Or maybe they just never knew.

Typical.

And Michael Curry is a grade-A asshole. What a fuckin tool, and a terrible move by Joe Dumars.

Re: post #7

Apparently Joe thought so, too.

There are limitless varieties of disasters, but in the end, they're all still disasters.

Apparently Joe thought so, too.

Is this supposed to mean something?

Detroit's gotta be one of the better (best?) sports towns in the US to cover if you're a journalist (I would think so anyway). Why does the quality of sports journalism suck so bad here?

Is this supposed to mean something?

Playing dumb again?

Against my better judgment, I'll spell it out for you, if only for MoTown's enjoyment if nothing else.

Joe knows Laimbeer and his "qualifications" and his desire to coach better than anyone else on earth and he STILL chose Curry over him.

I know that thou have a mancrush blinding you here, but I know you see this.

I'm sure that most of you have seen the Rip "trade rumors" that popped up this morning on some blogboy's site.

And then comes this...it's just dripping with good stuff for us to talk about, and I put some parts in bold, but you really should read it all.

:stein:


Hamilton looks to put frustration behind

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Whether or not he gets to partake in an on-court reunion Wednesday night with Allen Iverson, Detroit Pistons guard Richard Hamilton says he still shares plenty of common ground with his former teammate.

Like Iverson, who left the Pistons over the summer to sign with the Memphis Grizzlies, Hamilton regards last season as the most frustrating of his NBA career and echoes Iverson's recent claims that he was lied to by ex-Pistons coach Michael Curry.

"Oh, by far," Hamilton said when asked if last season was the worst he's experienced as a pro. "By far. When you have a coach that you've played with when I came to Detroit that lies to you, straight dead to your face, with all the things that I did here, that's a tough pill to swallow.

"But I'm past it. Far past it. My dad would always tell me [last season]: 'Don't get into it. Don't get into the media and yell and scream and cry. Just play.' And that's what I did. You come play basketball and people respect that and that's all I tried to do."

The Pistons will try to gain some more distance from the painful memories of their 39-43 record in 2008-09 and a first-round sweep by Cleveland when they open the new season at FedEx Forum. Iverson, though, is not expected to play in his first real game as a member of the Grizzlies after missing much of training camp with a partially torn left hamstring.

Earlier this month, in an interview with ESPN.com's Scoop Jackson, Iverson said that he was lied to about his role on multiple occasions by Curry, insisting that Curry assured him that Iverson would always be a starter after his arrival from Denver in November in a trade for Chauncey Billups.

Hamilton made the same assertions about being misled by Curry in a recent sitdown with ESPN.com, illuminating the depths of the disconnect between Curry and his veterans. The tension ultimately convinced Pistons president Joe Dumars that he had to fire Curry on July 1 after only one season, when it became apparent that Curry regaining respect in the locker room was unlikely.

After being moved to the bench to accommodate Iverson -- an unpopular move with Pistons veterans, given Hamilton's long and successful tenure in Detroit -- Hamilton was moved back into the starting lineup ahead of Iverson late in the season, which ultimately led to Iverson leaving the Pistons in April after playing in just three games as a reserve.

"I don't believe that the guys here believed that I should have come off the bench and I don't believe that guys thought Allen should come off the bench," Hamilton said. "I heard Allen made the comment that guys came to [Curry] and told him they don't want to play if Rip ain't starting. I spoke to Allen and he told me the same thing, but I told him that's tough to believe when nobody was speaking [to Curry]. Nobody [was] communicating with this coach.

"And that was just one of many lies. From a head-coaching standpoint, you don't do that in the middle of the season. ... You don't try to throw your team under the boat because of a decision you wanted to make."

Pistons officials declined comment when reached Wednesday by ESPN.com. Curry could not immediately be reached for comment.

Hamilton, meanwhile, finds himself confronted by new challenges as the Pistons prepare to face the Grizzlies, as one of the few remaining links to the group that won a championship in 2004 and reached the Eastern Conference finals in six straight seasons.

There is a growing sense around the league, according to NBA front-office sources, that either Hamilton or Tayshaun Prince will be dealt before the league's annual trading deadline in February. Hamilton's name has come up often, given that Detroit's backcourt also features two other prominent scoring guards in Rodney Stuckey and free-agent signee Ben Gordon.

In addition to its logjam at shooting guard, Detroit has a clear need for a more traditional set-up man as well as a proven big man. Hamilton, though, maintains that he and Prince aren't gripped by fears of "Who's next?" to be traded after the recent departures of Billups, Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess.

"Not at all," Hamilton said. "Different guys left for different [reasons]. I think, at the time, Tay and I were the two youngest [Pistons veterans]. Now we're the two oldest, but I don't think that here in Detroit they want to start all the way over and just blow up everything and be a team that wins 10, 12 games. I think we still want to win. I think as long as [he and Prince] go out and play, we're good."

Hamilton disputes the notion that he and Gordon can't coexist, countering skepticism about Detroit's ability to win with three small guards -- none of them a traditional point guard -- by saying that the Pistons had to "have more scorers" than they've fielded in past seasons to be successful. He is also quick to point out that the Pistons' title teams, from Dumars' era and this decade's champs, had All-Star caliber players such as Vinnie Johnson and Mehmet Okur coming off the bench.

"It can definitely work," Hamilton said.

After telling the Detroit News earlier this month that he hopes to retire a Piston and ultimately see his No. 32 raised to the rafters, Hamilton revealed another reason for his determination to stay in Detroit: Ben Wallace's return to the club this season.

"I love it," Hamilton said. "I think it's good for me. As crazy as the year was last year, to have one of my brothers come back that knows me personally, somebody I can talk to not about basketball, [Wallace's] coming back here makes me at ease.

"Last year was last year. I always say that. I'm happy I went through it, just for the simple fact that it doesn't make me [complacent]. Regardless of what you do and accomplish anywhere, you still have to prove yourself night in and night out. You never know what somebody else is thinking.

"I love that people say that we're not title contenders. I don't look at it like that. I don't look at it as a rebuilding year. I don't think Ben would want to come back if this was just a rebuilding year. I love that we're kind of flying under the radar. ... In previous years, we all took on a leadership role, but now I've really got to be a lot more outspoken, watching what I do, watching what I say, because I know the young guys really pay attention. It's a new stage in my career and I thrive on it."

As for his relationship with Iverson, Hamilton told the Memphis Commercial Appeal: "We loved him, he loved us. We were all friends, we were all brothers. Like I said, certain people make it complicated when it shouldn't be complicated."

Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com.

Nobody?

Damn, dude.

Read it. Wow. Last year's squad and lockerroom was even more screwed up than any of us thought. Just amazing.

Here's what I take away from this:

1. I can't help but wonder how the AI experiment might have worked if Curry would have kept Stuckey on the bench (yes, a Stuckey supporter is saying this. . .).

2. What did Curry have to gain by lying? I just don't get it. Can anyone explain?

Playing dumb again?

Against my better judgment, I'll spell it out for you, if only for MoTown's enjoyment if nothing else.

Joe knows Laimbeer and his "qualifications" and his desire to coach better than anyone else on earth and he STILL chose Curry over him.

I know that thou have a mancrush blinding you here, but I know you see this.
I love that you assume you made your point clearly. It can't be that you were at fault. It has to be that I'm "playing dumb".

That said, I never would have assumed you were trying to say Curry was still the better choice after that abortion of a season. It's tough to summon the will to converse with someone who holds that terrible of an idea in his head and doesn't immediately flush it.

I didn't say he was the better choice, I said he was the choice that Joe made.

And I trust in Joe.

On a lighter note:


He is also quick to point out that the Pistons' title teams, from Dumars' era and this decade's champs, had All-Star caliber players such as Vinnie Johnson and Mehmet Okur coming off the bench.

We can debate the opinion of Okur being All-Star calibre during his best years later but for now I'm wondering how the fuck he gets the "All-Star calibre" label attached to him based on his play during our title season.

I didn't say he was the better choice, I said he was the choice that Joe made.

And I trust in Joe.

If the only two choices were Curry and Laimbeer, "cancel the season" should be a write-in option. Curry being terribad doesn't make Laimbeer any more appealing, it just makes Joe look horrible for hiring him.

We can debate the opinion of Okur being All-Star calibre during his best years later but for now I'm wondering how the fuck he gets the "All-Star calibre" label attached to him based on his play during our title season.

I think you're forgetting just how bad a selection of studly big men there were in the East. Jamaal Magloire made the East All-Star team in 2004. Had Memo gotten more play (and had Ben not made the team, which would've likely been why Memo got minutes), he might have been an All-Star C that year. Memo was productive, and his minutes were limited more by clashes with LB over not playing close to the rim than by foul trouble or overall inability to play. His D was crap, but Elden Campbell wasn't a great step up against the runty big men that littered the the East, and Magloire wasn't exactly elite.

So who's gonna score the first Mike Curry interview? Stein?

He can't just sit there and take this much longer, can he?

The local guys probably think he's too busy to bother.

Remember when Brown wouldn't bring in that all-star caliber player even though EVERY OTHER BIG MAN ON THE TEAM had fouled out?

Brown chose Darvin Ham over All-star caliber.

In Brown we trust.

That'll happen when you defy the coach and just decide that you're going to Jack up ill-advised threes.
And I mean that in the most polite and friendly way possible

Remember when Gla knew what he was talking about?

Me neither. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200405140DET.html)

2 3pt attempts in the playoffs up to that point. 5 attempts the entire post-season. 48 attempts the entire 82 game season.

Gla.

Doesn't watch the Pistons.

Just talks about 'em.

The fact the East had/has shitty big man doesn't change my opinion of Okur and this "All-Star calibre" label.

Dude wasn't, isn't and never will be "All-Star calibre". He could be the only C in the league, get voted in to start and I still wouldn't consider him an All-Star calibre big man.

It's the same with the term "superstar" or "Franchise" player. Just cause fuckers throw these labels around doesn't mean I have to follow along.

Remember when Gla knew what he was talking about?

Me neither. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200405140DET.html)

2 3pt attempts in the playoffs up to that point. 5 attempts the entire post-season. 48 attempts the entire 82 game season.

Gla.

Doesn't watch the Pistons.

Just talks about 'em.
Looks like I've been exposed. I only imagined seeing Memo perched at the arc, look over at LB and defiantly jack up a 3, only to be immediately removed from the game, never to be fully trusted by the coach again.

If you weren't such a good friend, I would be offended that you've exposed my charade.

Damn, the Pistons shot only 40% as a team and still blew them out in game 7.

Unlike "superstar" and "franchise player", All-Star can have a formal meaning -- someone who played in a fucking All-Star game. In 2004, Jamaal Magloire played for the East in an All-Star game. Given Magloire's stats and overall play, one could reasonably conclude that the caliber of Eastern All-Star big men wasn't exceptional. I'm showing what a joke the label is too, just with hard facts rather than some idealized version of what "All-Star caliber" is. :)

Was Rasheed Wallace an All-Star caliber player when he made the All-Star team in 2005 and 2007 as a Piston?

Um, ok - no need to get your panties in a bunch.

You produce hard facts and I'll continue to live with my "idealised" version.

That way we're both happy.

Can I be happy now?

Wait, you think you are helped by saying the title fits people who have been to all-star games?

That was my point with the "Okur could be the only C and get voted in" part.

But Mxy said fuck and he never says fuck so I thought he was pissed and I decided to let it go.

We posted at the same time P. I agree with you.

That was my point with the "Okur could be the only C and get voted in" part.

But Mxy said fuck and he never says fuck so I thought he was pissed and I decided to let it go.
I'm not pissed at all. I violently agree with you, just from a different angle. Be happy. It's ok. You have my permission. :)

And I'm laughing my ass off at "he never says fuck". I've been told to cool it with my "every other word is fuck" rants earlier this week.

Agree, Mxy. You really need to fuckin chill on that swearing all the time. :)

^greentext