Long response indeed (which is something I unfortunately excel at) but well-thought out and with very valid points. I can see how people can swing both ways on the topic of stuckey's ability to be successful in his current role with the club and I'm certainly aware that there's still a long way to go in the season before any opinions can truly be validated.

It's funny that you reference the pistons organization as having issues developing young players (which I agree with) and potentially forcing them into spots they might not be capable of being successful at. Bulls fans feel the same way about their organization. Most recently with jamal crawford, who was a shooter coming out of college, and their attempts to morph him into a point guard. Didn't work and you are left to wonder what could have been if he were given the opportunity to develop into more of a shooter than a playmaker.

The Bulls then DIDN'T try to do a similar thing with gordon, a much smaller player, and pretty much kept his development to that of being a shooter only (by primarily having him come off the bench). It might have been interesting to see what he could have been if given the opportunity to develop some 1-guard skillsets (because as of now he's merely a one-trick pony in that if his shot isn't falling he's doing nothing else to help his club win games).

I guess my point is I agree with you in that organizations sometimes make mistakes in how they choose to develop younger players. It's certainly more than how they are physically that determines how successful they can be in the pros. I'm just hoping dumars didn't jump the gun on things with stuckey before really knowing what type of player he had because he still has a long way to go in terms of understanding the game of basketball and learning how to make his teammates better. That truly is the indicator of a superstar player in this league not their ability to score points.

Anyway, I'm also just hoping to get some improvement and consistency by the time the season concludes in order to give us fans hope that the future might be something to look forward to.

If it was made clear why all the hate for Stuckey?

The kid is in his 3rd season.

Playing for his 3rd fucking coach.

As I stated previously his role seems to change on a nightly basis

And according to the great Joe Dumars the future of this franchise hinges on this kid!

Who would wanna be Stuckey?
LOL you just keep replying with the same question. If you don't like the answer, fine. But stop acting like no one has answered you.

People are upset at Stuckey because isn't fulfilling his role. Sure be upset at Dumars too but as it relates to Stuckey IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO GAVE HIM THAT ROLE OR HOW HE GOT IT.

I guess in P's world, if someone isn't getting their work done you fire their boss for hiring the guy but you never touch the guy who isn't getting their work done. Fucking Australia, always upside down.

I just don’t enjoy watching him play basketball. It’s too frustrating.

Poor court vision
Poor shooting
Poor shot selection
Can’t finish at the rim
Doesn’t look to involve teammates/tunnel vision/ballhogging
Poor passing skills
Poor handle
Lacks finesse in his movements (he’s like a bull in a china shop)
Low bball IQ
etc.

I don't see a problem with any of those things with Bynum.

IMO, Bynum is just as guilty of many of the weaknesses you attribute to Stuckey, especially those I've bolded.

some of it is just bullshit, though. Saying Stuckey has a poor handle is flat out ignorant. And his finishing ability was a problem a long time ago, not this year.

IMO, Bynum is just as guilty of many of the weaknesses you attribute to Stuckey, especially those I've bolded.
I like you Atticus, but that's a bad post. You are trying to make the case against Bynum vs. Stuckey using some of the worst examples that you could have picked. As far as getting others involved, what I see from Bynum is a guy that looks to get the team the best shot he can. Sometimes it's a teammate and sometimes it's himself, but he's coming off the bench to score in a lot of cases, his role is different than that of the starting PG. That said, he STILL gets more assists than Stuckey does in over 10 minutes less playing time per game. That's a fact. Secondly, what on earth are you doing comparing the shot sealectupb between these two and calling them comparable? Stuckey's shot selection has to be one of the worst in the league. He's got no one fooled, they all know what's coming, and he is summarily :dismissed: with great regularity. And then there are the bad, bad jumpers. On the other hand, Bynum is getting others involved and shooting over 50% from the floor. How many bad shots are you taking if you are hitting 50%+? If anything, he should be shooting MORE.

Let's just try to forget that post of yours and move on with the rational discussion.

some of it is just bullshit, though. Saying Stuckey has a poor handle is flat out ignorant. And his finishing ability was a problem a long time ago, not this year.
He dribbles the ball withe the heel of his palm, we had a whole thread about it. And even if I haven't seen every minute of every game like you undoubtedly have, I still see him forcing things at the rim and either not finishing or getting swatted. His shooting % and BA bear that out. And as someone pointed out in this thread yesterday or the day before, those blocked shots equate to turnovers (even if they don't show up in the stats that way) and they often lead to easy fastbreak baskets on the other end.

Stuckey has the talent allocation of a superstar with the talent level of a roleplayer. Not sure if allocation's the right word there, but I think it gets the point across.

Stuckey's decision making thusfar has been terrible. Nobody's debating that. But the times where he's gotten to the rim, he's been finishing shots. The reason for his terrible %FG is his shitty jumper.

His handle is also excellent. It isnt fundamentally sound, but it works for him. He generally gets to where he wants to go with it. Nobody calls Kevin Martin a poor shooter because he spins the ball on the fucking side of his right palm, do they?

Back to page 5 to continue the "Stuckey Defense":


No, if he made less (than he soon will) and he played less, then my expectations would be different so I wouldn't be as vocal about his shortcomings. Seeing him put on this plateau by the organization and fans is very troubling to me as A PISTONS FAN.

So here's the hypocrisy. Flip was making peanuts here as a hired gun and got scrutinized to no end. Stuckey was anoited as the sacred cow and is the golden boy. WTF is up with that?


But Flip was getting torn to shreds by a bunch of fans on a forum.
Stuckey has been annoited by the organisation and thr majority of this board is not happy with him at all.

And everyone is preaching to the choir here, so WTF is up with that?


LOL you just keep replying with the same question. If you don't like the answer, fine. But stop acting like no one has answered you.

People are upset at Stuckey because isn't fulfilling his role. Sure be upset at Dumars too but as it relates to Stuckey IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO GAVE HIM THAT ROLE OR HOW HE GOT IT.

I guess in P's world, if someone isn't getting their work done you fire their boss for hiring the guy but you never touch the guy who isn't getting their work done. Fucking Australia, always upside down

It doesn't matter who gave him that role or how he got it?
So you take a guy that is not qualified for a role, hand it to him and say "Go get 'em" and then when he fails it's all his fault?

WTF?

I hope I never work for you.

Cause down here in Upside Down Land if we want a fucking butcher he hire one. If we want a chef we hire a chef.

If I wanted a chef I wouldn't hire a fucking plumber. That's stupid.

I love P. Only he can read a post that blames other people and then claim you didn't blame other people.

It must be tough trying to read everything upside down.

Fool, I see your name is spot on.

May I refresh your memory?



LOL you just keep replying with the same question. If you don't like the answer, fine. But stop acting like no one has answered you.

People are upset at Stuckey because isn't fulfilling his role. Sure be upset at Dumars too but as it relates to Stuckey IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO GAVE HIM THAT ROLE OR HOW HE GOT IT.

I guess in P's world, if someone isn't getting their work done you fire their boss for hiring the guy but you never touch the guy who isn't getting their work done. Fucking Australia, always upside down

Then I replied:


It doesn't matter who gave him that role or how he got it?
So you take a guy that is not qualified for a role, hand it to him and say "Go get 'em" and then when he fails it's all his fault?

WTF?

I hope I never work for you.


And your response to my reply?


I love P. Only he can read a post that blames other people and then claim you didn't blame other people.

It must be tough trying to read everything upside down.

Now, excuse me for being able to read but where the fuck did I "claim" you didn't blame other people?

I acknowledged your "blame" of Dumars, which I have now underlined for your foolish eyes but CHOSE to focus on your ALL CAPS Dwayne Johnson riff of "It doesn't matter who gave him that role or how he got it".

Of course if fucking matters.

The same way it would matter if I paid you to read me a book despite me already knowing you can't fucking read

IF Joe Dumars did not know Stuckey wasn't the sacred cow when he made that speech, or did not know that Stuckey was not cut out to be the leader or the PG of this team then he's dumber than a bag of rocks.

And let the record show that the only fucking reason we need a leader is cause Joe has not drafted one, traded for one or signed one.

Now, excuse me for being able to read but where the fuck did I "claim" you didn't blame other people?




It doesn't matter who gave him that role or how he got it?
So you take a guy that is not qualified for a role, hand it to him and say "Go get 'em" and then when he fails it's all his fault?

WTF?

I hope I never work for you.

Maybe once one of your 46 kids can read, they can teach you.

Like everyone but you understands. Other people being to blame for the position the kid is in doesn't mean the kid is getting the job done.

At least Gla just pretends to be dumb.

Hay!

Moved a bunch of the stuff about Stuckey that didn't specifically have to do with these 4 games to this thread. Will be easier to find/reference down the road.

People are upset at Stuckey because isn't fulfilling his role. Sure be upset at Dumars too but as it relates to Stuckey IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO GAVE HIM THAT ROLE OR HOW HE GOT IT.

I guess in P's world, if someone isn't getting their work done you fire their boss for hiring the guy but you never touch the guy who isn't getting their work done. Fucking Australia, always upside down.
Let's suppose Dallas decides that Dirk has pretty good handles and it would be amazing to have a 7 foot PG. What a matchup problem! So when Kidd's contract is up they make the switch. Dirk has good one on one handles, but he doesn't know how to create open looks for his teammates and run an offense. Well, I guess that's Dirk's fault, right? No, it's the fault of the GM/Coaches for playing him out of position.

Other teams with combo style guards have realized their guy is more of a scorer than PG. Gordon was mentioned. Washington didn't draft Arenas, but they put Blake/Dixon/Hughes/Daniels next to him realizing he wasn't a true PG. Miami has had Alston/Dooling/J Will/Payton/Chalmers next to him for the same reason.

It would have been much easier for those teams to force feed the PG spot to them. They didn't have a finals MVP at PG already there to displace. The Pistons made a conscious choice to replace an all star PG with Stuckey. They had other options, but they chose that route. I don't know how you can blame anybody but Joe for Stuckey struggling.

WHO CARES WHO IS TO BLAME (NOW), WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT IT?

Stuckey has the talent allocation of a superstar with the talent level of a roleplayer. Not sure if allocation's the right word there, but I think it gets the point across.
I think of it in terms of minutes and playing time. At the moment, here's the top 20 players in terms of mpg. It's notable that most every player on here has demonstrated that they are pretty studly over the course of a recent season (including Ben Gordon). They're here because of actualized and sustained potential. Stuckey's name sticks out like a sore thumb.


1. Gerald Wallace-CHA 41.5
2. Deron Williams-UTA 40.1
3. Rudy Gay-MEM 39.8
4. Andre Iguodala-PHI 39.3
5. Joe Johnson-ATL 38.7
6. Dwyane Wade-MIA 38.7
7. Monta Ellis-GSW 38.6
8. Trevor Ariza-HOU 38.6
9. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 38.5
10. Luol Deng-CHI 38.5
11. Kevin Durant-OKC 38.4
12. LeBron James-CLE 37.9
13. Rodney Stuckey-DET 37.8
14. Boris Diaw-CHA 37.8
15. Kobe Bryant-LAL 37.6
16. Ben Gordon-DET 37.4
17. Caron Butler-WAS 37.3
18. O.J. Mayo-MEM 37.2
19. Chris Kaman-LAC 37.1
20. Danny Granger-IND 37.0
Andrew Bynum-LAL 37.0
John Salmons-CHI 37.0

Great observation, as usual, Mxy. Is Stuckey being "showcased"? Joe moved Darko too late in the opinions of many, but he did get decent value for him. Knowing when to cut bait and admit mistakes has always been Joe's forte (that's what job security will do for you) all the way back to Mateen, etc.

Problem is, showcasing Stuckey also exposes him. I wouldn't be surprised to see Stuckey moved before Joe has to make a contract decision about him.

What the hell will we talk about then? Lol

Let's suppose Dallas decides that Dirk has pretty good handles and it would be amazing to have a 7 foot PG. What a matchup problem! So when Kidd's contract is up they make the switch. Dirk has good one on one handles, but he doesn't know how to create open looks for his teammates and run an offense. Well, I guess that's Dirk's fault, right? No, it's the fault of the GM/Coaches for playing him out of position.

Other teams with combo style guards have realized their guy is more of a scorer than PG. Gordon was mentioned. Washington didn't draft Arenas, but they put Blake/Dixon/Hughes/Daniels next to him realizing he wasn't a true PG. Miami has had Alston/Dooling/J Will/Payton/Chalmers next to him for the same reason.

It would have been much easier for those teams to force feed the PG spot to them. They didn't have a finals MVP at PG already there to displace. The Pistons made a conscious choice to replace an all star PG with Stuckey. They had other options, but they chose that route. I don't know how you can blame anybody but Joe for Stuckey struggling.
The Dirk analogy is a terrible one. This isn't a PF moving to PG, it's a combo guard playing one of the positions entailed in the idea of "combo guard". A better analogy would have put Dirk at C. You know, a position he has the size and ability for if not the mentality or will to succeed at. The only problem is that doesn't help your argument especially when you consider Dallas used him as a C quite often under Nellie and while it was never his optimal position, he still managed fine.

Again, I've acknowledged Dumars is to blame for Stuckey being in the position he's in. I've done it like 4 times now. THAT STILL DOESN'T MEAN STUCKEY IS MAKING THE CUT.

The only starter in that group of Washington "point guards" was Hughes, who hasn't been on the team in five years (same with Blake), neither Blake, Dixon, nor Daniels have ever been a starter. So you wanna run that "Washington doesn't make Arenas play PG!" argument by me again? Because, he actually does play point guard, especially when the games matter.

And no one has ever called, or argued in favor of trying to make, Stuckey a "true" point guard.

Ain't no one saying Stuckey is doing a good job.

The hate he cops on here is mind boggling, even for us.

And every single time someone (mick nugget) posts a "Fire Dumars" thread he's shouted down.

WTF?

You can't sit there and blame Dumars for his poor drafting, the coaching merry-go-round and piss poor ability to see Stuckey ain't a PG (and Darko wasn't a back to the basket C) AND then DEFEND Joe when people blow up about that shit.

But you do whatever the fuck you wanna do. Throw Stuckey under the bus. Hate the dude all you want. Just remember that the kid is not a PG, never fucking will be and that the organisation is the reason he doesn't excel in his role.

BECAUSE his skills don't match his role

P, it's not just a WTF thing, we're actually kind of late to the party.

You can't sit there and blame Dumars for his poor drafting, the coaching merry-go-round and piss poor ability to see Stuckey ain't a PG (and Darko wasn't a back to the basket C) AND then DEFEND Joe when people blow up about that shit.


Why does it fall on the GM that Stuckey is playing PG? That seems more like a coaching problem. I really doubt that Joe Dumars told the coach who plays what positions and all that.

I actually think the acquisition of another PG/SG in Gordon was meant to cover alot of Stuckey's inefficiency as a PG as far as covering some PGs, ball handling and ball distribution.

I like you Atticus, but that's a bad post. You are trying to make the case against Bynum vs. Stuckey using some of the worst examples that you could have picked. As far as getting others involved, what I see from Bynum is a guy that looks to get the team the best shot he can. Sometimes it's a teammate and sometimes it's himself, but he's coming off the bench to score in a lot of cases, his role is different than that of the starting PG. That said, he STILL gets more assists than Stuckey does in over 10 minutes less playing time per game. That's a fact. Secondly, what on earth are you doing comparing the shot sealectupb between these two and calling them comparable? Stuckey's shot selection has to be one of the worst in the league. He's got no one fooled, they all know what's coming, and he is summarily :dismissed: with great regularity. And then there are the bad, bad jumpers. On the other hand, Bynum is getting others involved and shooting over 50% from the floor. How many bad shots are you taking if you are hitting 50%+? If anything, he should be shooting MORE.

Let's just try to forget that post of yours and move on with the rational discussion.

Thanks, Glan, I'm happy to be liked. Seriously, no snarkiness intended here.

I don't see how it's okay for Bynum to questionably hold the ball for 20 seconds and often have to force bad shots. This does happen, quite frequently, and especially in the Phoenix game, if we can call that effort a game.

And I don't have a problem with Stuckey's jumpers. If we could take a look at his shooting percentage on jumpers, it would be comparable to Bynum's. His lowered percentage is a result, as you've said, of taking the ball to the rim when there's nothing there, which I will agree with you is a big problem at times.

Also, just because they go in sometimes doesn't mean they are good shots. Bynum would be on the bench a lot for not playing the right way if LB were still in town. Yes, I know his shooting percentage is pretty good right now, but still...

In sum, I think the best way to put this is that you're a bit too high on Bynum and I'm a bit too high on Stuckey. Is that fair?

I don't see how it's okay for Bynum to questionably hold the ball for 20 seconds and often have to force bad shots.


He makes them.

And I don't have a problem with Stuckey's jumpers. If we could take a look at his shooting percentage on jumpers, it would be comparable to Bynum's.
We can take a look at his shooting % on jumpers, thanks to 82games.com.

Here's Bynum: http://www.82games.com/0910/09DET2.HTM

Here's Stuckey: http://www.82games.com/0910/09DET4.HTM

Note that Bynum's eFG for jumpers (46% at the moment) is much better than Stuckey's (37%). They're certainly comparable in the sense that you can take two values and compare them, but Stuckey doesn't compare favorably.

Thanks for saving me the work, Mxy.

Also, just because they go in sometimes doesn't mean they are good shots. Bynum would be on the bench a lot for not playing the right way if LB were still in town. Yes, I know his shooting percentage is pretty good right now, but still...

LB has been praising Flip Murray incessantly, to the point that he's considering starting him. On an unrelated note, I think LB would love Bynum.



In sum, I think the best way to put this is that you're a bit too high on Bynum and I'm a bit too high on Stuckey. Is that fair?
I can go along with that, but I feel good that my guy is at least giving me good reason to like him.

He makes them.


Still bad shots.

We can take a look at his shooting % on jumpers, thanks to 82games.com.

Here's Bynum: http://www.82games.com/0910/09DET2.HTM

Here's Stuckey: http://www.82games.com/0910/09DET4.HTM

Note that Bynum's eFG for jumpers (46% at the moment) is much better than Stuckey's (37%). They're certainly comparable in the sense that you can take two values and compare them, but Stuckey doesn't compare favorably.

I knew someone would pull out the season stats. I should have qualified my statement and said that I think Stuckey's jumper is looking better lately, all things considered. But thanks, Mxy, I stand corrected nonetheless.

Looking at Stuckey's numbers there, I see that his close and inside percentages are solid but unspectacular. Am I wrong, or is that one of the things that y'all like to crap on him about? Also, 49% of his shots come with 8 seconds or less remaining on the shot clock, meaning his inept teammates are often forcing him to take crappy shots. So the stats are a bit telling there, IMO.

Comparatively, Bynum's inside percentage is a low 39%, yet we complain most about Stuckey's inside game. That's backwards if I've ever seen it.

Just for giggles, it's interesting to note that Bynum's shots are predominantly early in the shot clock. Only 35% of his occur late in the clock.

For more giggles, Stuckey's PER obliterates Bynum's when both play the PG position.

Yes, we would like the guy who's rep is built on his ability to drive to the whole, to actually be able to finish.

Yes, we would like the guy who's rep is built on his ability to drive to the whole, to actually be able to finish.

44% is reasonable, but unspectacular, like I said.

And I'm really excited to be able to watch Stuckey drive to the whole tonight.

Nuts.

Just messin' around, Fool. Even the resident nice guy can be a bit sassy now and then.

Why does it fall on the GM that Stuckey is playing PG? That seems more like a coaching problem. I really doubt that Joe Dumars told the coach who plays what positions and all that.

Huh? How can you blame a coach for playing Stuckey at PG when the GM trades away the only established PG on the team? Who is he supposed to put at PG?

Other guards on roster after Billups trade:

AI - not a PG either.
Afflalo - G/F type.
Bynum - was essentially a rookie.
RIP - G/F

RIP and AI were in and out of the lineup, so even if you felt you could play AI at PG you still had lots of time where Stuckey would have been forced to play PG only. The only option you had was Bynum, and he hadn't shown much yet. I hated Curry, but I can't fault him for Stuckey starting at PG last year. Dumars created that situation.

Ain't no one saying Stuckey is doing a good job.

The hate he cops on here is mind boggling, even for us.

And every single time someone (mick nugget) posts a "Fire Dumars" thread he's shouted down.

WTF?

You can't sit there and blame Dumars for his poor drafting, the coaching merry-go-round and piss poor ability to see Stuckey ain't a PG (and Darko wasn't a back to the basket C) AND then DEFEND Joe when people blow up about that shit.

But you do whatever the fuck you wanna do. Throw Stuckey under the bus. Hate the dude all you want. Just remember that the kid is not a PG, never fucking will be and that the organisation is the reason he doesn't excel in his role.

BECAUSE his skills don't match his role

You want to argue about firing Joe Dumars, do it in the Fire Dumars thread.

Last I knew this was the "Fool hands you your ass when you try to shift blame off Stuckey onto other people" thread.

You want to have Stuckey play shooting guard? Fine, but dude is 3rd in line there.

Careful, you may get called a crony!

Allen Iverson is just as capable, if not more capable, of running the point.

Allen Iverson (35)/ Will Bynum (13)
Rip Hamilton (35)/ Rodney Stuckey (13)

and I would have used Afflalo as a situational defender who can spread the floor.

I know that it's revisionist history, but there's no way that team doesn't do better in terms of chemistry and success in the league.

Looking at Stuckey's numbers there, I see that his close and inside percentages are solid but unspectacular. Am I wrong, or is that one of the things that y'all like to crap on him about? Also, 49% of his shots come with 8 seconds or less remaining on the shot clock, meaning his inept teammates are often forcing him to take crappy shots. So the stats are a bit telling there, IMO.

Comparatively, Bynum's inside percentage is a low 39%, yet we complain most about Stuckey's inside game. That's backwards if I've ever seen it.

Just for giggles, it's interesting to note that Bynum's shots are predominantly early in the shot clock. Only 35% of his occur late in the clock.

For more giggles, Stuckey's PER obliterates Bynum's when both play the PG position.
The last is an artifact of the fact that Stuckey most often defends at SG, since he's been typically paired with BG or Bynum. Stuckey has only a tiny amount of minutes at PG this year from the 82games perspective.

Oh, and close is a subset of inside in 82games-speak.

You want to argue about firing Joe Dumars, do it in the Fire Dumars thread.

Last I knew this was the "Fool hands you your ass when you try to shift blame off Stuckey onto other people" thread.

You want to have Stuckey play shooting guard? Fine, but dude is 3rd in line there.

How the fuck is this the "Fool hands you" anything thread?

You've got both your hands on your cock and your head shoved straight up your ass.

How the fuck am I shifting blame? You blame Stuckey for not being a PG. Everyone fucking knows he's not a PG. He wasn't a PG when he was drafted and he ain't gonna morph into one simply because he's had a whole season at the position (under the great coaching of Curry)

The BLAME for Stuckey's inability to actually play PG falls on Joe Dumars because, and stop me if you may have read this before. I know it's dark where your head is right now (since it's up your ass) but... Stuckey is not a fucking PG.

I don't know how many ways to post it. Stuckey is not a PG. He's being forced to play a position that doesn't suit his skill set. He can not be blamed for not becoming a PG after 1 whole season in the position.

Now, if you wanna argue that Stuckey is not a SG, then maybe we can discuss it. The is he/isn't he a PG debate is not a debate. It's not a discussion. It's nothing. Cause he ain't a fucking PG. That's a fact.

Hey dipshit.

Maybe look what thread you are in. The one that starts -


Which of these BEST describes how do you feel about Stuckey heading into this season?
I'm sold, he should be our long term PG
I'm getting concerned, he hasn't shown the progress that was expected
I've given up hope that he'll be our long term solution at PG



Maybe you should stick to making pretend trades and watching pretend sports.

LMAO

You do have your head up your ass!

Do you remember that most of the last few pages were actually moved to this thread by Glan after first being posted in the OGT for the West Coast trip?

No deal trading RS... hands off ...he'll make folks regret they were throwing him to the wolves.

At this point in time I seriously don't expect Stuckey to amount to much here in Detroit.

He's not a PG and as Fool correctly pointed out IF we allowed him to play his natural position he would be 3rd on the depth chart.

So what's a team to do?

Trade the fucker.

Seriously!

I doubt his value is gonna get any higher - people know what he can and can't do. Someone (probably Mxy) posted his minutes per the other day - dude is way up there.

I'd try and get a real PG for him - forget size, we need a dude that can run the offense. Damn! A guy like Andre Miller or Luke Ridnour might even be able to create some easy opportunities for Ben Wallace and Jonas Jerebko, among others.

It's not that Stuckey sucks, or is a bum - he's just not a PG and we could really use one. And IF we had a dude like Ridnour or Miller starting at PG then having Bynum come off the bench is even better cause he would really quicken the pace by comparison.

It likely ain't gonna happen (a Stuckey trade) but that doesn't mean it shouldn't

I guess that's why I'm intrigued by the possibility of trying him at the 3. He looked much better last night largely playing off the ball. Sure, he was still forcing things and ballhogging too much, but he gets a free pass from me with Gordon out on top of the others, somebody has to shoot the ball.

I'm all for trading Stuckey, but not for a PG. I want size. I'd rather have Bynum, Gordon and Chucky take turns running point then have no big guy that can play both sides of the ball.

No deal trading RS... hands off ...he'll make folks regret they were throwing him to the wolves.


I'm against trading him now as his value is shit. The time to deal him was when I made the thread asking if anyone would consider it 2 years ago.

I'm against trading him now as his value is shit. The time to deal him was when I made the thread asking if anyone would consider it 2 years ago.

if any other team gets a phone call where the other team is shopping an unknown but still hyped up rookie what do you think the answer is going to be?

Stuckey's value peaked after the one high scoring week he had where he dropped 40 on Chicago. He probably could have gotten something nice in return, but if Joe Dumars is offering him it's going to look very fishy to other teams.

I wanted to trade him after his playoff "breakout" and acceptance onto the USA practice squad. If if you are offering him for someone else of serious value it doesn't look fishy at all.

i don't think so. it's very rare that a young guy with potential is shipped out like that. I actually can't think of any time it's happened.

If I get a phone call shopping a supposed future of a franchise i'm going to think something is up.

Koolaid - I see where you are coming from but I think Hermy is suggesting that if you traded Stuckey back then his value was sky high and it would only look fishy if you were trying to trade him for shit.

If you offered him for someone else with a lot of value the other GM wouldn't think it was fishy - he'd think Stuckey was good and probably would get better.

BTW, the reason I mentioned Ridnour is partly due to his expiring contract and the fact Milwaukee has Jennings. At what point do they decide that an expiring contract worth $6.5 mil should be traded so they can get something of value?

Michael Redd has 2 years left on his deal and Hammond knows Stuckey so I guess we couldn't con him.

Maybe we could con Minny's GM? Whatshisname (Kahn?) I'll take the rights to Rubio and some bum for Stuckey.

to me it just seems like shopping is enough to lower his value.

Think like it's a hooker. she looks good and you might think about trying to get some from her. Then she walks up to you and tells you the price before you can even ask. Now she looks dirty and you think she must have a dick, be setting you up to get robbed, give you a disease or some shit because there's no way that a chick that looks like that should be so unnoticed and unwanted enough to ask you for shit.

I don't think a stuckey trade scenerio back then is much different.

Yeah Stuckey's a cheap tramp Ho... Money grubing Hoodrat

to me it just seems like shopping is enough to lower his value.

Think like it's a hooker. she looks good and you might think about trying to get some from her. Then she walks up to you and tells you the price before you can even ask. Now she looks dirty and you think she must have a dick, be setting you up to get robbed, give you a disease or some shit because there's no way that a chick that looks like that should be so unnoticed and unwanted enough to ask you for shit.

I don't think a stuckey trade scenerio back then is much different.
Best analogy ever

everything in this world can be broken down in terms of prostitution.

you didn't know that?

The Davidson family = pimps
the detroit pistons = hoes
Joe Dumars = the bottom bitch
the fans = tricks, johns or whatever you call them.

Soooo, if I follow this correctly, Rodney Stuckey is a trick ass hoe?

Hmm... interesting.

Starting Chucky Atkins allows Rodney Stuckey to attack offensively

BY VINCE ELLIS
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

Many Pistons fans got their wish when Rodney Stuckey played primarily at the two-guard spot in Sunday's mild upset of the Hawks.

Chucky Atkins got the start at the point and only played 19 minutes, but he did free up Stuckey, who responded with 23 points and tied a season-high with eight assists.

Will Bynum picked up the rest of the slack at the point with 19 points and four assists off the bench.

Stuckey admitted that playing off the ball does allow him to rest since he wasn’t the primary ball-handler.

Atkins said there is another benefit for Stuckey.

“By bringing him off the ball, he ain’t necessarily got to worry about getting everybody involved and doing the point guard duties,” the 10-year veteran said. “I ain’t the type of guy that’s going to break guys down. I’m going to make sure we get into our sets and we stay organized."

From my e-mails, many armchair analysts think Stuckey should play shooting guard full-time. I tend to disagree, but Sunday's game was definitely evidence in favor of the fans.

But Pistons coach John Kuester said Stuckey's days at the point are far from over so sorry to disappoint you all.

I love how some have defended this Atkins starting thing, after the fact. If anyone here would have suggested that Q should start Atkins they would have been lol'd at, and deservedly so.

I love how some have defended this Atkins starting thing, after the fact. If anyone here would have suggested that Q should start Atkins they would have been lol'd at, and deservedly so.
Got that right... our memories aren't too short to forget Chuckit... I think he went to the rack once with the old squad... that's only cause Eddie Curry was the defender.
That said he plays a more intellegent game these days...
His defense is bout as ugly as b4.

Atkins starting over Bynum would be similar to AC starting over Lawson (were Billups hurt). Both are stupid IMO. I like Bynum on the bench, but he's earned the fill in start when one is needed.

Is Chucky starting over Bynum especially different from Amir starting over McDyess?

Is Chucky starting over Bynum especially different from Amir starting over McDyess?
Totally different points in their career paths. We're obviously not evaluating Chucky to see if he can play against starting caliber talent or showcasing him for a trade .

Totally different points in their career paths. We're obviously not evaluating Chucky to see if he can play against starting caliber talent or showcasing him for a trade .
You mean, we didn't have Amir as a starter to add some element to the starting lineup that they were otherwise lacking?

I like Stuckey a lot. He still needs a nickname. Stuckster, Hot Rod...etc.

Personally, I like Bynomite!

i like the Amir/McDyess to Chucky/Bynum comparison.

Amir was the wrong guy to start things off with. He lasted 24 games as a starter before that was corrected.

Chucky/Stuckey are the wrong answer to be the starting PG of this team. Time will tell how many games it lasts.

And still you guys are worried about who starts.

And damn right I am defending Q's choice to start Atkins. We got into our sets, he is a 3 point threat and it allowed Stuckey and Bynum to do what they do best.

Yet some of you still whine! That's just fucking weird.

I can't believe this is even a debate. Chucky starting is obviously a very temporary fix. It allows Bynum to be the energy guy off the bench, instead of having Chucky come off the bench. Atkins is going to have to play anyway with our top 2 guards out, so why not start him and have Bynum come in fresh while other players are starting to fatigue a little.

And for God's sake - IT MAKES STUCKEY START AT THE TWO! Isn't that what you all wanted? He now is playing the position that you guys were crying for him to play, and takes the ball out of his hands.

I can't believe what some of you guys are willing to complain about.

i like the Amir/McDyess to Chucky/Bynum comparison.
So back to this, I think it's a horrible comparison. One guy was a young guy with a relatively big contract and tons of "positive upside potential" and the other is a never-been vets min scrub that if he wasn't pulled off the scrap heap by the Pistons, would be out of basketball.

completely agree with Glenn. Other than "one guy was better but was on the bench" the parallels are non-existant.

Better to make one guy play outside of their normal rotation than to change the whole team's rotation.

completely agree with Glenn. Other than "one guy was better but was on the bench" the parallels are non-existant.
So, you're saying we _didn't_ start Amir to add some rebounding, hustle, and length -- stuff we had in short supply -- to last year's starting lineup?

Lineups need to have some balance. The 5 best players on the team aren't always the 5 starters. Sometimes, you have starters in to win the tap, set the pace, then bring in someone off the bench to ratchet things up a notch as the game goes on. Many of you knew this last year in this thread:

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?p=274393

We've had key players injured since the start of the season, and we're digging at the bottom of the barrel trying to figure out the right winning recipe with what we have. Yeah, that part is different. But the overall thrust of things is the same -- triyng to find the right balance of players at particular times to win games.

Mxy loves posting about winning the tap, lol. I still don't know how that makes one bit of difference, but since it's Mxy, I'll just trust that it does.

Winning the tap means you have Josh Smith on your team and that means your team is both fun to watch and good defensively.

I like starting the game up 2-0 because we scored on the first possession.

I like having the ball at the start of the 4th quarter where it may matter most.

It's just that simple.

So, you're saying we _didn't_ start Amir to add some rebounding, hustle, and length -- stuff we had in short supply -- to last year's starting lineup?



Dyess didn't provide rebounding and hustle? Amir brought excitement. It was a marketing move, not a hoops move besides checking a kid out.

Lineups need to have some balance. The 5 best players on the team aren't always the 5 starters.

I think this is being lost on these forums a lot.

As long as the best 5 players get the most minutes, that's what matters most to me. Things like who starts matter to the players, though. If you want to reward a guy for playing well, it's a chip that can be used. I would completely understand if Bynum saw starting a guy off the scrap heap, like Atkins, in front of him as a major slap in the face after what he has done for this team.

As long as the best 5 players get the most minutes, that's what matters most to me. Things like who starts matter to the players, though. If you want to reward a guy for playing well, it's a chip that can be used. I would completely understand if Bynum saw starting a guy off the scrap heap, like Atkins, in front of him as a major slap in the face after what he has done for this team.

If a guy thinks starting or getting his piece of the pie (money, minutes, stats) is more important than accepting his role and winning basketball games then the pistons don't need that player, it's as simple as that.

That being said, I really like Will Bynum and his ability to change a game from off the bench and how he currently accepts his role. I also appreciate that he's never complained about coming off the bench or not playing starters minutes. The second he does this he loses his value to the "team" and will need to be moved. Now if another team overpays for his services this offseason and gives him big minutes thinking he can excel in this role then congrats to him and the pistons will move on.

Let's hope he accepts his current role and sees a future in it because it would help the team incredibly the further along down the road when other pieces to the pistons puzzle are added. It's not about winning this year it's about adding pieces to the puzzle and people buying into their roles and the concept of ultimately winning a NBA championship.

Plus it's proven that Will bynum is better in small doses, or at least this is the case so far this year (He's played over 30 minutes 7 times this year and shoots 37.8% from the floor in these games vs. an astounding 58% when playing less than 30).

If a guy thinks starting or getting his piece of the pie (money, minutes, stats) is more important than accepting his role and winning basketball games then the pistons don't need that player, it's as simple as that.


As always, a well-reasoned response, but this part is overly idealistic, IMO. They all want acclaim, status, a pat on the back, PT, $, etc. We're not going to build of superteam of nice guys that love to acquiesce. And if you did, they wouldn't be any good. The drive for these things is a big part of what makes them excel.

Of course, you can't go too far the other way, either, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to believe that Bynum would suddenly get all full of himself and go off the deep end, especially after how hard he worked to get here. So yes, he'll be a good trooper and keep his mouth shut, even if he thinks he deserves a bigger role.

Manu doesn't whine about starting. He realizes his value to the team. I don't want a guy that complains about minutes/shots/etc either. I want a guy that shows he deserves minutes with his play.

Now, I understand frustration when a clearly inferior player is being used more than a better one (Curry over Prince), but I don't remember him complaining. Eventually his play was showcased enough that a change was made.

That is what I expect from Bynum. Don't worry about minutes, just play. Eventually a guard will be moved and things will work out for him. No sense fussing about it when it does no good.

Hey fellas, I came into this thread today expecting to see some hot and steamy Rodney Stuckey debate, and his name doesn't even show up on page 33. Let's get with it here...

Who do we have in the Pistons organization who could credibly teach either Stuckey (or Bynum) how to be some ideal pass-first PG?

Who do we have in the Pistons organization who could credibly teach either Stuckey (or Bynum) how to be some ideal pass-first PG?

Have the Pistons ever had an ideal pass-first PG? Help us out here, Tahoe!

Manu doesn't whine about starting. He realizes his value to the team.


Manu plays for a contender. He also played behind very good players.

Bynum is playing for a losing team. He was benched so you could watch Stuckey selfishly illustrate how NOT to play the point, and more recently he took a seat for a Chucky.

There's really no comparison between the two situations at all. Bynum never complained about it though. So I guess he's better than AI and Rip in that regard.

Realistically if a 25 year old guy is playing as good as Bynum is, and is on a losing team like he is, and he doesn't want to start then something is wrong with his head. If I really thought he was content to be a sixth man, due to injury, on a team that's getting it's ass kicked regularly then I'd be screaming to trade/bench the little motherfucker right now.

Now it's looking like he won't be on the Pistons next year (unless there's a big salary dump coming) because there's no way a fourth guard on the bench is going to hold the same value to Detroit that a starting PG would to Atlanta, Indiana, or the Lakers.


Plus it's proven that Will bynum is better in small doses, or at least this is the case so far this year (He's played over 30 minutes 7 times this year and shoots 37.8% from the floor in these games vs. an astounding 58% when playing less than 30)

That's really misleading. If Bynum was truly better in small doses then he wouldn't have stepped his game up for the fourth like he usually does. Some of those games where he played less than 30 minutes were blowouts too. Him shooting well had a lot to do with him not getting those late minutes.

As always, a well-reasoned response, but this part is overly idealistic, IMO. They all want acclaim, status, a pat on the back, PT, $, etc. We're not going to build of superteam of nice guys that love to acquiesce. And if you did, they wouldn't be any good. The drive for these things is a big part of what makes them excel.

Of course, you can't go too far the other way, either, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to believe that Bynum would suddenly get all full of himself and go off the deep end, especially after how hard he worked to get here. So yes, he'll be a good trooper and keep his mouth shut, even if he thinks he deserves a bigger role.

First, thanks for using the word acquiesce. It's one of my favorite words and probably the best song oasis ever recorded, if there is such a thing.

Second, you're exactly right, it's nearly impossible to form a team in today's NBA complete with guys that "get it" and are willing to sacrifice personal glory and a potential paycheck for the team's benefit (or at least not for more than 1 year). It usually requires a leader (like KG in 08 with the celts, duncan every other year, the jordans, magics, birds, etc.) that inspires the team to focus on that single goal of winning or a close call the year (or years) before that results in the team finding that focus to win the championship (think the lakers of the early 70s after being sodomized by the celtics for 10+ years, sonics of the late 70s, sixers of the early 80s, pistons late 90s, bulls of the early 90s, rockets of the mid 90s, and our beloved 2004 pistons squad)

Unfortunately the current roster of pistons lack both the leader or the experience to contend but I'm of the opinion it's not a bad thing to still focus on finding the pieces that will eventually lead this team towards being legit again. Bynum being a highly efficient and effective player in minimal minutes off the bench would be a nice piece at hopefully a decent price.

Still, who could blame bynum for wanting to get his piece of the pie or for believing in himself that he's a legit NBA starter and nor do I necessarily think that's a bad thing. He should think he's one of the best. I just don't want to hear about minutes and money from him until the end of the year (as I expect will be the case as he appears to be a class guy).

Once a guy starts talking money and minutes (or stupid records like ilgauskas and lebron were yapping about this week) during the season his mind is on other things than helping his team win. Who's to say that once he does get his he'll be capable of recaputuring that will to win, assuming he ever had it in the first place.

For each of those teams I mentioned before most shot their wad that one season only to lose their focus (or have players turn their focus elsewhere, or in the case of the 2005 pistons, their coach) and never find that mojo it takes to win another championship. Usually players left for their piece of the pie or started to think they should be paid like a champion, whatever that means (and some coaches really wanted to coach the knicks and not the pistons!).

They forgot how they got there in the first place (there's a great book called "the breaks of the game" by david halberstam that follows the 1979 portland trailblazers and describes this phenomenon and how in just 2 short seasons they went from champion to train wreck...it's in my opinion the best book on basketball ever written, other than maybe "the franchise" by cameron stauth but I'm a little biased in favor of that team)

It's things like this that make you appreciate the russells, birds, magics, zekes, jordans and duncans of the world (I left out kobe because he only wins championships when it somehow benefits his overall image) in that they were able to always focus on winning each and every season, it was the reason they played basketball.

Manu plays for a contender. He also played behind very good players.

Bynum is playing for a losing team. He was benched so you could watch Stuckey selfishly illustrate how NOT to play the point, and more recently he took a seat for a Chucky.

There's really no comparison between the two situations at all. Bynum never complained about it though. So I guess he's better than AI and Rip in that regard.


Plus it's proven that Will bynum is better in small doses, or at least this is the case so far this year (He's played over 30 minutes 7 times this year and shoots 37.8% from the floor in these games vs. an astounding 58% when playing less than 30)

That's really misleading. If Bynum was truly better in small doses then he wouldn't have stepped his game up for the fourth like he usually does. Some of those games where he played less than 30 minutes were blowouts too. Him shooting well had a lot to do with him not getting those late minutes.
First off, Manu has played behind mostly inferior players. Guys like Roger Mason starting ahead of him. So you are wrong there.

Second, I didn't even post that second quote. I'm not sure what you are doing in that post, but I never made those comments about shooting %.

First off, Manu has played behind mostly inferior players. Guys like Roger Mason starting ahead of him. So you are wrong there.

Second, I didn't even post that second quote. I'm not sure what you are doing in that post, but I never made those comments about shooting %.


I'll take responsibilty for spewing those stats. Yes, they can be a bit misleading but all stats are misleading to a certain extent. Really the only stats that matter are wins and losses.

With that being said, one might be able to construe based on that small sample that bynum might be a little better when exposed to the opposition in small doses.

In those 7 games in which he's played 30+ minutes (for an average of about 32.5) the team is 1-6 and he shoots that aforementioned 37.8% from the floor.

In those 10 games in which he's played less (for an average of about 24.something if I recall) the team is 5-5 and he shoots that great %.

Granted much more than will bynum's minutes played goes into victories and defeats but it's interesting nonetheless.

Additionally, bynum's Assists/per 36 remain just about about same (in the 7 game sample he's at 5.6, in the 10 game sample 5.4 which puts him at the level of andre Iguodala) so he's the same type of player regardless of his time on the floor.

He's a shoot first, pass-second player that appears to be a more efficient player when playing less....so far. We'll see how the season plays out.

Once a guy starts talking money and minutes (or stupid records like ilgauskas and lebron were yapping about this week) during the season his mind is on other things than helping his team win.
Of course, there's the classic argument that "we win mo' games if coach play me mo' minutes". It can be hard to deal with if the player is playing well in limited minutes, or has played well with big minutes in the past.

And thanks for adding a book to my reading list. :)

Rodney Stuckey's stats at starting SG (3 games): 20 ppg, 46%, 8.5 FTAs, 5 asp, 5 rpg.

You ass! I was just about to come in here and post that.

Post it again!

Rodney Stuckey's stats at starting SG (3 games): 20 ppg, 46%, 8.5 FTAs, 5 asp, 5 rpg.

POLL (AND CASE) CLOSED

I'll wait for Pharaoh to take credit for noticing that Stuck's not a PG, lol.

Too bad they'll continue to play him at PG full time unless RIP gets traded.

He's started four games at SG now.

21 ppg, 45.5%, 7.25 FTA/g, 5.75 assists/g, 5.25 rebs/g

That's 3 points, 5%, 2 FT, 1 assist, .25 boards more a game than his current season average.

Anyone want to do the averages for all his games before the Atlanta game to see compare his 4 game SG stink to his 16 PG stint?

BTW, I haven't been able to watch the last 4 games but there are a couple of highlights from the Washington game where Stuckey broke a double team up high near the time line. That was something he did without a problem 2 years ago and something that suddenly vanished last year (he started picking up his dribble when he would get boxed in).

BTW, I haven't been able to watch the last 4 games but there are a couple of highlights from the Washington game where Stuckey broke a double team up high near the time line. That was something he did without a problem 2 years ago and something that suddenly vanished last year (he started picking up his dribble when he would get boxed in).

It may just be a problem with PG mentality vs SG mentality. A SG might see a double and think he can split it and at worst he'll draw a foul. A PG might see it and think someone else is open and it's my job to get everyone involved.

Serious or facetious? You make the call...


Rajad (Dearborn, Mich.): Jerry Stackhouse was always my favorite Piston. Stuckey reminds me so much of Stackhouse in his posture and the way he plays with so much heart. Every time I see Stuckey, Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace on the floor together I literally get goose bumps. I know the old teal jerseys are always ridiculed, but I really liked them. Is there any way I could get a teal Pistons jersey with Stuckey’s name on the back?

Langlois: I don’t know of any conventional means of obtaining such a jersey, Rajad. Maybe one season in the future the Pistons will break out the teals as an alternate uniform. If anybody has an old teal jersey they’d like to contribute to Rajad’s cause, let us know.

Kevin (Saginaw, Mich.): You can’t tell me that Stuckey doesn’t look 1,000 times more comfortable at the shooting guard position. Are the Pistons looking to make that move permanent?

Langlois: Let’s try setting the record straight on this again: What Joe Dumars said after last season was that Stuckey’s ability to attack made it wise for the Pistons to play him off the ball some of the time. In no way did he mean for that to be interpreted as the organization no longer believing his future wasn’t as a point guard. If that were the case, what sense would it have made for him to then target Ben Gordon in free agency, when Gordon is clearly best suited to playing off the ball? So, yeah, Stuckey can be a very effective slasher and scorer playing off the ball as a change of pace. But the Pistons believe he also has the mind-set and skill set to be a top-10 point guard, which means he’s more valuable to them filling that role when they have other players also comfortable and effective playing off of the ball.

Joe D says "positions are antiquated"

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/12/joe_dumars_positions_are_antiq.html?utm_source=fee dburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-pistons+%28Detroit+Pistons+Impact+-+MLive.com%29

Wade barely played PG at all. I said it earlier in the thread. He had J Will, Alston, Chalmers, Payton and a host of other starting PGs next to him. Anthony Mason probably had more PG skills than Wade does.

His first year he played point. They had Alston but he started mostly while Wade was out. Wade started next to Eddie Jones. That offseason they shipped out Alston and brought in Damon Jones to play the Derek Fisher, stand at the arc all day PG, role.

So when Joe compares Wade to Stuckey, why doesn't he realize that Wade was made into a full time PG because he's more suited there.

My point is that Wade does not support Joe's notion that Stuckey is a PG.

So when Joe compares Wade to Stuckey, why doesn't he realize that Wade was made into a full time SG because he's more suited there.

My point is that Wade does not support Joe's notion that Stuckey is a PG.

Yeah, I agree with that point. That's why it was the one analogy (out of 3) in that post you made back then that I didn't challenge.

so now that we have 2 allstar SG in RIP and Gordon and 2 shoot first Guards in Stuckey/Bynum at PG, what to do? two of them have to go and we need at least one 'real' starting PG?

He's started four games at SG now.

21 ppg, 45.5%, 7.25 FTA/g, 5.75 assists/g, 5.25 rebs/g

That's 3 points, 5%, 2 FT, 1 assist, .25 boards more a game than his current season average.

Anyone want to do the averages for all his games before the Atlanta game to compare his 4 game SG stint to his 16 PG stint?
Sure! I will!

Stats at the 1 (16 games):

17 ppg, 39.6%, 4.75 FTA/g, 3.94 assists/g, 4.88 rebs/g

Stats at the 2 (4 games):

21 ppg, 45.5%, 7.25 FTA/g, 5.75 assists/g, 5.25 rebs/g

Change:

+4 ppg, +5.9%, +2.5FTA/g, +1.81 assists/g, +.47 rebs/g

Moral of the story -

Chucky Atkins = Superstar Maker

Rajad (Dearborn, Mich.): Jerry Stackhouse was always my favorite Piston. Stuckey reminds me so much of Stackhouse in his posture and the way he plays with so much heart. Every time I see Stuckey, Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace on the floor together I literally get goose bumps. I know the old teal jerseys are always ridiculed, but I really liked them. Is there any way I could get a teal Pistons jersey with Stuckey’s name on the back?

Langlois: I don’t know of any conventional means of obtaining such a jersey, Rajad. Maybe one season in the future the Pistons will break out the teals as an alternate uniform. If anybody has an old teal jersey they’d like to contribute to Rajad’s cause, let us know.




LMAO

A teal #42 Stuckey jersey would be pretty sweet, I have to admit.

"Stuckhouse"?

I don't think they are really that comparable. Stack was much better at drawing fouls and Stuckey doesn't jack threes like him. I could see Stuckey becoming Stack if he doesn't develop a decent three point shot though and never truly becomes a PG.

He can't dunk nearly as well as Stack either.

I'm interested to see if Stuckey's level of play diminishes when Rip comes back in about a week and Atkins goes back to the bench. It's possibly that things are just starting to "click" for Rodney and that he'll do just as well at the starting PG spot, especially if Joe D is right about positions being antiquated.

Wade's role as a full-court facilitator gave him a running start at opposing defenses that had been intent on trapping him and limiting his touches at shooting guard in recent weeks. But Spoelstra said Wade's best work continues to be done off the ball, with brief stints at the point.
``It's something he's not only comfortable with, but it's produced positive results,'' Spoelstra said. ``It's also something that gets him going, frees up space for him in the open court. But I don't ever plan on starting him at [point guard] or playing the majority of his minutes there. It does give us a different look and you're seeing more teams starting to go to this.''
Wade just might be the most dominant ``hybrid'' guard in the league. Spoelstra believes more teams are starting to use their best scorer in play-making roles similar to the way Miami uses Wade.
Portland's Brandon Roy, Detroit's Rodney Stuckey and Sacramento's Tyreke Evans are among the guards who draw comparisons with Wade. Since spending his rookie season primarily at point guard, Wade repeatedly has said he prefers not to take on more ball-handling duties.
His actions recently tell a different story. The Heat has been harder to defend and plays at a more up-tempo pace when Wade replaces starter Mario Chalmers at the point. More minutes for Wade there also has allowed the Heat to play bigger on the perimeter, with 6-6 Quentin Richardson, 6-9 Dorell Wright or 6-8 James Jones moving to shooting guard.

Rodney Stuckey doesn't feel he's getting enough foul calls
http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/12/rodney_stuckey_doesnt_feel_hes.html?utm_source=fee dburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-pistons+%28Detroit+Pistons+Impact+-+MLive.com%29

Now, Rodney, you shall get less.

Coach just threw Stuck under the bus. Pretty odd.

Could you eglaborate?

if you want stuckey to pass the ball more, try playing him at point guard and putting people around him that can make shots.

Putting him at the 2 with Atkins, Jerebko, Maxiell and Wallace is not encouraging him to move the ball around. That lineup is designed for him to carry the offense.

If V isnt going to start, then start Summers at PF. At the very least, he can hit a 3 and spread the floor. Is it suicide to start 2 rookie forwards? Probably, but we're not winning games anyhow.

Could you eglaborate?
Someone needs to find the video of the back and forth between Q and Zaret. Not only do you need to see the facial expressions, tone and pauses, but me trying to paraphrase it would be a powder keg.

Kinda surprised that no one wants to talk about this, but kind not, too.

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/12/coach_john_kuesters_comments_i.html

Here's the video

Is Kuester upset with the play of Rodney Stuckey? (http://need4sheed.com/2009/12/is-kuester-upset-with-the-play-of-rodeny-stuckey.html)

if you want stuckey to pass the ball more, try playing him at point guard and putting people around him that can make shots.

Putting him at the 2 with Atkins, Jerebko, Maxiell and Wallace is not encouraging him to move the ball around. That lineup is designed for him to carry the offense.

If V isnt going to start, then start Summers at PF. At the very least, he can hit a 3 and spread the floor. Is it suicide to start 2 rookie forwards? Probably, but we're not winning games anyhow.
wtf? stuck did start at point, and he did have CV with him starting, and BG was there too. Stuck was not doing shit different though, actually ball movement was even worse back then.

The Pistons are 0-4 when Stuckey shoots 24x or more.

What's our record when he shoots 23 or less lol

Right now we're 8th in the East!

A lot of credit should go to Stuckey (among others) for that

Perhaps this has more to do with not having a true PG that forces Stuckey into that role. That's like the Rockets getting pissed at Chuck Hayes for not providing a post presence when they play him out of position at center (he's 6'6" BTW). Actually, they don't get pissed. They realize he's doing his best at a position THEY moved him to because they needed help there.

Instead we find fault in the player that shouldn't even be playing that position.

lol, still trying to pull out analogies.

We know your opinion. Combo guards shouldn't play PG. We got it.

When people stop throwing him under the bus (despite playing out of position), I'll stop providing other examples of guys not played out of position or played out of position that are not thrown under the bus.

Yes, Stuckey has a terrible high disadvantage at PG.

WHY JOE WHY!!!!???

Yes, Stuckey has a terrible high disadvantage at PG.


I'm not even sure what you are trying to say. Next time read what you wrote before posting it.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to say. Next time read what you write before posting it.
Fixed.

You said "look look they don't blame Chuck Hayes (who is too small for the 5) for not being big at Center." To which I responded that that argument doesn't apply to Stuckey who is plenty skilled for the PG position.

Next time you are thinking about posting, don't.

Wade is plenty skilled to be a PG, but he's not for good reason (he's much better as a scorer first). Darko is plenty skilled to be a center, but he isn't (because he's a vagina). Just because a player has enough skill to play another position doesn't mean that is his best position. I would argue Prince is more skilled to play PG than Stuckey.

And post 378 still doesn't make sense. Somewhere along there you typed the wrong word or wrong tense of a word. I think you meant to say "height" instead of "high". That would be a true statement, except it doesn't counter my point. Hayes has a deficiency at the position his team put him at, one that wouldn't be exposed at his natural position. This is the same with Stuckey.

Well, you would be wrong about Prince but the more important issue is that WE'VE ALREADY HAD THIS CONVERSATION. Seriously, just link to the earlier posts IN THIS THREAD if you are going to bring the same analogies and the same argument.

As I said. As long as people keep dogging him for not being a true passer, the same argument remains (that he's playing out of position). In fact, it's even more valid considering they are switching him back and forth due to injuries.

And the same response still holds. At the very least he's a "combo guard" so it's not "playing him out of position" no matter how much you want that wipe away all criticism of him.

So terrible to criticize a player playing poorly!

And the same response still holds. At the very least he's a "combo guard" so it's not "playing him out of position" no matter how much you want that wipe away all criticism of him.

So terrible to criticize a player playing poorly!

EASTERN CONFERENCE PLAYER OF THE WEEK

WTF were they thinking?!

Shoulda traded him that afternoon.

Shoulda traded him that afternoon.

Agreed.

And while it's true that Stuckey's role changes depending on who we have healthy the bottom line is that:

1) the dude ain't a legit PG and

2) right now he;s better playing off the ball.

"1" is a pretty big problem IMO. Ideally you want a dude that run the offense/direct shit on the floor and command respect. You want this dude to lead the team, to know who's hot, to manage the game. Saying Stuckey is poor at all that stuff is not being negative - it's just the truth.

"2" is also a pretty big problem going forward, since we have 2 dudes that are obviously superior to Stuckey at SG and at least 1 guy clearly superior to him at SF. And really, at 6'5" Stuckey is too small to play SF for long stretches.

So trade the guy. That's the best thing we can do for him and if we get a nice piece in exchange what's the harm?

I'd like to see what we could get for Stuckey + Kwame or Stuckey + Tay or Stuckey + Tay + Kwame.

I'd like to see what we could get for Stuckey + Kwame or Stuckey + Tay or Stuckey + Tay + Kwame.
I doubt Toronto would bite (with Bosh here) unless a 3 team trade got them what they wanted. They have Calderon/Jack/Banks/DeRozan/Belinelli back there and Tay would just back up Hedo.

Wonder if the Suns might want Stuckey (Amare here). Nash is getting up there. Would they like a two combo guard backcourt with Stuckey and Barbosa down the line?

There aren't many trade options really. Our best bet is to move RIP for an expiring, let Stuckey and Bynum start, and sign a FA big. Stuckey and Gordon would get 30 MPG and Bynum 24. While none of them are true PGs, I'd be less concerned about that if we had a legit post player to feed off of (Bosh).

We've mentioned a RIP for Boozer trade before. Would Utah do that? They won't be able to sign anyone when he leaves (Boozer, Harpring and Korver all leave and they still have MLE only). They are at 57 mil next year now, and would be at 70 with RIP (8-9 mil over the tax line). I doubt they exceed that. We could take back Miles for Kwame, but I'm not sure we'd have Bosh money then. We'd have to find a taker for Max too in order to do that.

Booz is still intriguing, because most feel that he's definitely going to be moved. There were reports over the weekend that he and Dwight Howard (apparently good friends) have been talking about playing together. I could see some sort of Gortat + parts for Boozer deal happening.

If the right package is out there, I'd be in favor of a trade, believe it or not. But I don't think we're getting a legit PG for Stuckey, so trading Stuckey and parts for a big man fills one need and worsens another situation.

I've a hunch that trading Stuckey ends up being a huge mistake though.

Booz is still intriguing, because most feel that he's definitely going to be moved. There were reports over the weekend that he and Dwight Howard (apparently good friends) have been talking about playing together. I could see some sort of Gortat + parts for Boozer deal happening.
If Utah took on Gortat, they would have to get expirings otherwise or hit tax level. Would they even resign Boozer though? I would think they'd need to move VC in order to give him decent money (and slide Lewis to SF).

I think Boozer will sign in Miami when they can't get Lebron.

I'd like to see what we could get for Stuckey + Kwame or Stuckey + Tay or Stuckey + Tay + Kwame.

That's what is interesting.

You take a guy with an expiring deal (Kwame), throw in a dude with a soon to be expiring deal (Tay), add some young talent (Stuckey, 2010 pick, maybe Daye or Summers) and what could you get?

Bosh?

Toronto next season could go Bargnani, Hedo, Tay, Stuckey, Jose and have Jack, Marco, DeRozan and then have 2 rookie bigs from the Draft.

That could give them a very nice future.

But if we're looking for a legit PG I can't see any on the market, except Andre Miller. And I wouldn't deal Stuckey and Kwame for him.

And if Bosh decides to move elsewhere next year?

Not worth the risk.

And what if he doesn't wanna leave?

With Bosh, Nova, Rip and BG we'd be pretty good offensively.

Throw in role players like Big Ben, Jerebko, Bynum and Maxiell.

That's looking pretty sweet for a season or 2, depending on Big Ben.

Maybe we'd even use the MLE to add another reasonable player to make up a 9-man rotation, or maybe Summers comes on a bit and steps in on the wing and we don't spend the MLE?

We'd struggle to replace Big Ben when the time came, but that's gonna be an issue regardless of who we have at the time.

Way too big of a "what if" to give up on all those players for a rental. You'd have to be brain-dead to make that move.

This team is not nearly good enough to hand over Tayshaun and Stuckey for a guy that might bolt in 6 months.

BTW, doesn't Nova have some kind of twitter thing v Bosh? IIRC they had some competition to get the most stalkers or something.

That suggests they are at least on friendly terms

The rules of free agency help the "home" team. Any team that holds Bosh's Bird Rights can pay him more than the "away" team.

Also, look at the teams with big money to spend:

NY - they're shit. Why go there and lose for another few years?

Miami - outside of Wade they're pretty fucking shit.

NJ - they have some pieces that could develop but unless they get 2 studs they'll be crap for a bit longer

Who else is there?

By joining one of those teams Bosh goes back to the bad old days when Toronto sucked.

And IF Toronto was willing to accept that package what do we really lose?

Tay's on the downside of his career while Stuckey, Daye and the 2010 pick can not compare with an "in-his-prime" Chris Bosh.

I think Tay has more in him than people think. He played 4 years in college which is easier on the legs than the NBA, and while he's started a lot of games, he's never looked like a guy who's game was getting worse.

He's good for his next contract.

No doubt Tay is not "DONE" but for me it comes down to potentially having Bosh in his prime v having a bunch of pretty decent players.

I'd simply take the risk with Bosh.

If we were talking about Amare? Fuck No!

If we were talking about Boozer? Fuck No!

Of course this all assumes Toronto would even take that package.

Bosh would be here yesterday if Joe offered that deal. Nobody is going to trade good future assets for Bosh, because nobody is stupid enough to risk that much on a guy entering free agency. It's utter stupidity that this was ever brought up to begin with. We are all dumber for having read it.

Bosh would be here yesterday if Joe offered that deal. Nobody is going to trade good future assets for Bosh, because nobody is stupid enough to risk that much on a guy entering free agency. It's utter stupidity that this was ever brought up to begin with. We are all dumber for having read it.

Yeah, we're all dumber for posting/reading a lot of shit on here - but what are we gonna do - not post/read?

And if we're not gonna talk about trading our players for better players than we shouldn't discuss trades at all.

Free agency or not

We'd be better off discussing trades that could actually happen- or better yet, trades that would be actually beneficial for more than 6 months.

There are plenty of impending free agents that could be had. Very few of them would be a good idea. The most reliable asset in such a deal is the expiring contract, which is certainly not the reason you make a Bosh trade.

If this were a better team, then you could at least argue for making a run at the finals this year with Bosh. But no, this is a 11-17 team. Bosh or no Bosh, this team is not going anywhere, barring a total overhaul of the current roster. Lastly, Bosh is not going to re-sign with a losing team when he's already begging to get out of a losing situation.

BTW, I apologize for losing my temper. It's a frustrating time to be a Pistons fan, because this team should be a lot better than it is, and now the only quality talent playing right now is spending half his time deferring to guys that can't make shots wide open.

It's getting more irritating by the day looking at Gordon, Hamilton and Prince sitting on the bench in street clothes.

Not knowing how Mrs. D is going to play this summer, I'd really much rather package Kwame + some of our repetitive talent that has value (Stuckey, Tay) for a star. The other option is simply letting him come off the books and let her pocket the $. At this point, I'll take the known vs. the unknown and take the trade rather than hope that she'll let Joe use some/all of the MLE as our only upgrade. We have enough youth and potential on this squad even if we trade Stuckey, we need a star/leader.

I doubt we get Bosh, but even if we did and he wanted to walk, I bet we could get a pretty nice haul in a S&T, if she is willing to spend, that is.

You'd rather package our talent for a star? Well why didnt you say so from the beginning? This is a breakthrough idea!

And yes, we have so much young talent on this team aside from stucky. I mean, judging from tonight, we have 3, no maybe 4 potential hall of famers on this lineup. We can afford to dump stuckey no problem, because down the road, Daye, Jerebko and Summers are all going to go from guys that can't make wide open shots to studs that demand double teams.

When is the last time a team got a pretty big haul in a superstar sign and trade, anyway? Don't worry, I'll wait.

Where are your suggestions, jackass?

You're all over the place.

You are scared to deal for a star that *might* walk, I'm embracing it.

Learn to read.

No, I'm scared to deal for a star that *will* walk.

Bosh would look like a total idiot if after all his crying in Toronto, he re-signs with a Pistons team that is just as bad. Nothing outside of wishful homerism is going to get him to stay.

You don't think we could get West or Okafor (and maybe Collison) out of New Orleans for Stuckey/Tay/Kwame?

There are a lot of things that can be done if we're willing to take on money/years.

Problem is, nobody knows what the widow has told Joe he can do.

those are all much more realistic trade ideas than chris bosh.

the problem is, new orleans isnt trading anybody in a salary dump, short of an owner's demand.

The Hornets GM has gone on record saying the roster he put together is a winning roster, and their bad record is the fault of bad coaching. In other words, if he waves the white flag, he's out of a job.

Owner's demand is not all that unlikely in N.O.

The Hornet's GM is going to be out of a job in any case.

it's certainly possible, but i'm going to wait until there's some word that N.O. is cleaning house.

There's a chance their GM might quit before that happens, because after taking that stance, gutting the roster would ruing any credibility he has left. He'd have a better shot at getting another NBA job if he quit.

And there are even young bigs that we can probably get if we put Stuckey in play.

Once the A.I. experiment is over in Philly, would they take Stuckey for Speights? They might accept that they aren't going to be able to move Dalembert or Brand.

We can probably get Spencer Hawes right now if we want him, too.

stuckey for speghts? Why not?

While we're at it, let's deal Rip Hamilton for Matt Harpring!

Maybe a V for Leon Powe deal wouldn't be out of the question, either.

How do we go from Bosh to Speights? Talk about one extreme to the other.

stuckey for speghts? Why not?

While we're at it, let's deal Rip Hamilton for Matt Harpring!

Maybe a V for Leon Powe deal wouldn't be out of the question, either.
I can't even follow you, who are you knocking there, Stuckey or Speights?

hmm. Speights is a career 8/4 center in 92 career games. Somehow, I think we can do better for Rodney Stuckey, a guard with a better rebounding average than Speights, who's a fucking 7-foot center.

Shit, Kwame Brown has a better rebounding average then Speights, and Kwame has the hands of a 10 year old girl.

Rodney is a good week away from joining LeBron, Wade, and Tyreke Evans as the only 20/5/5 players in the NBA.

Is he taking this team to the next level? Nope, but I don't think lot of superstars would be doing much better. The last few games have siad a lot more about the other 11 guys on the floor than they have about Rodney.

If you're going to deal ROdney, it better be for a high quality long-term asset. Not a 6-month rental, and not a project player that has a poor chance of even reaching stuckey's level.

That post confirms my suspicions that you don't know what you are talking about. Thanks.

You can disagree on the equality of a Stuckey/Speights deal based on your high opinion of Stuckey, but when you start comparing the stats of Speights to Stuckey's and Kwame Brown as your basis, well it's just impossible to take you seriously.

Speights has shown little in the NBA. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

He can't defend, rebound, or even set a solid screen.

He can put the ball in the basket, but that's it. Typically the guy he's guarding has a better night, and his team loses becaus ehe doesn't contribute anything more than above-average scoring.

Nice edits, lol.

I love the fact that Detroit fans can actually KNOW Chris Bosh would walk if he was traded to Detroit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah - we're a shit team. Our best 3 fucking players are injured - of course we suck.

Look at Toronto's roster - Hedo is the only guy that is well proven in the NBA and has more than a season or 2 of success.

Now look at our roster - we've got Rip, BG and Nova locked in and all 3 guys are fucking good and pretty well proven.

Oh, and how the FUCK is a rotation of Ben Wallace, Chris Bosh, Jonas Jerebko, Rip Hamilton, Will Bynum, Ben Gordon, Charlie Villanueva and Jason Maxiell as bad as Toronto?

Some people that are high on our coach and certain players need to realise that if we could land Bosh without giving up Rip, BG and Nova we should fucking do it. Those 3 guys would have us killing it in the East.

I would put that 4some up against pretty much any in the league.

Now, obviously our role players are superduper - but we'd be better off with Bosh than we are with Tay/Stuckey etc

The fact there's a good chance he MIGHT walk alone presents far too great a risk.

You risk losing rodney stuckey and Tayshaun Prince for nothing. It's a ridiculous gamble.

The fact there's a good chance he MIGHT walk alone presents far too great a risk.

You risk losing rodney stuckey and Tayshaun Prince for nothing. It's a ridiculous gamble.

Did we lose AI, Sheed & Dice for nothing?

Not to mention the S&T possibilities with Bosh.

AI, sheed and Dice were all ancient vets with little future value. That doesn't compare to Stuckey, who is only going to get better, and has 10 years left in him.

And remind me the last team to get a great S&T package for a departing superstar?

Joe is not going to play russian roulette with his job. Not happening.

I think I would take that chance. If we do nothing we'll lose Tay for nothing anyway in another year (no way we can extend him with BG/RIP/Stuckey/Bynum making decent money). Where will we get our fanchise big from?

I think I'd at least have to get a general feeling from Bosh before making that deal. Joe may not be able to ask, but if there are trade rumors out there, there is no reason another player or reporter can't ask whether he'd stay here.

As was mentioned, we can provide more money than anyone. We can probably provide the best roster out of any team with money to sign him too. The only wildcard would be Miami. If Wade doesn't opt, they can sign another big FA and Bosh. ALthough, that didn't work for Orlando when they signed Tmac and wanted Duncan.

What kind of alternative package do you think they'd accept for Bosh without Stuckey?

if this was a tay/rip deal of two 30+ players, that's one thing. But you can't deal a long-term asset like stuckey.

I'm sure Toronto will look for the best young prospects they can find, and if that doesn't work, maybe Rip or Tayshaun plus Maxiell, Austin Daye and a protected 1st would be a good deal for them.

The Bosh S&T would not be ideal, of course, and yes, Joe would want some kind of assurance that Bosh would at least consider re-signing with the Pistons before the deal is made. I would bet that there is some mutual affinity there between Bosh & Joe, too. Remember what Bosh did when Joe told him we were taking Darko? He came and worked out anyways and tried to change Joe's mind.

We're not going to get a franchise big without rolling the dice a bit, and if we are dealing from a position of strength (replacements for Tay/Stuckey are already in the fold) then the risk is minimized even more.

I made an effort on the trade forum.

The Bosh S&T would not be ideal, of course, and yes, Joe would want some kind of assurance that Bosh would at least consider re-signing with the Pistons before the deal is made. I would bet that there is some mutual affinity there between Bosh & Joe, too. Remember what Bosh did when Joe told him we were taking Darko? He came and worked out anyways and tried to change Joe's mind.

We're not going to get a franchise big without rolling the dice a bit, and if we are dealing from a position of strength (replacements for Tay/Stuckey are already in the fold) then the risk is minimized even more.
There is no replacement for Stuckey in the fold.

Again, dealing quality vets and projects for Bosh is risk enough. Trading a proven young player would be suicide.

I guess the real question is whether a BG Stuckey backcourt works long term. Because if we don't trade him that will be our backcourt for many years (once RIP moves on).

Do you feel comfortable with that pairing or no? The answer to that dictates what you do trade wise.

I'd be fine with Stuckey and Gordon. Gordon's range creates more room for stuckey to drive the lane.

As long as you pair Stuckey with a pure shooter, he should be ok.

I think the best pairing you can have with a stud big man is a premier slasher and a premier shooter. One spaces the floor and the other breaks own the defense and creates offensive rebound chances.

So assuming that pairing is solid, what kind of big man can you get with Tay/RIP/Max/Kwame/Bynum in some sort of combination.

I'd add in Austin Daye as well, if it were a deal-breaker.

I'd happily part with every single player on our roster for Bosh and take my chances.

I seriously doubt he bolts Toronto and they get nothing.

But whatever - I've stated my case

Agreed with Pharoah on that. We got more than enough backcourt/swing prospects that we could give away a ton and still have good starters to play with Bosh. Whomever they want is fine with me.

i's not about having good starters to play alongside bosh. it's having good starters to play if/when bosh leaves.

What if he stays, Kstat?

I understand we gotta look at the downside too, but consider what we could have if he stayed.

So, based on what you've seen now, would anyone give him a larger contract extension than what Tay received off his rookie contract?

What if he stays, Kstat?

I understand we gotta look at the downside too, but consider what we could have if he stayed.
Again, it's russian roulette. The reward isnt worth the risk. You'd need a virtual guarentee from Bosh's peope, that he'd stay.

Assume you got that from his "people".

Regardless, for me he's the guy that would carry Rip, BG and Nova to a title.

Without him we'll be competitive - but not real contenders.

We need him (or someone like him) to elevate us to title contention, and IMO we ain't gonna get that guy via the 2010 Draft or free agency.

So you gotta swing for the fences in a trade.

Under normal circumstances guys like him are not available in trades because they can carry Franchises on their backs almost single handedly.

Your only opportunity is when they whine for a move to a "better situation" or when it's possible they'll bolt a life-long loser (like Toronto) for a winner (does Miami qualify, or do we?)

I'd happily take the chance that Bosh would stay with Nova, BG and Rip. He's not a fool. He knows what it's like to lose. Even if we was weighing up his option after the "trade" we'd be looking pretty sweet compared to any of those teams with the money to even come close to offering the maximum money.

Here he'd be the #1 guy on a team with Rip, BG and Nova. Playing for a Franchise that has a history of winning 50+ games for how many years? He'd be a moron to leave.

And I don't think Bosh is a moron.

As he said, we aren't going to win a title without a guy like Bosh. Even if Stuckey becomes a sufficient PG (lets say the PG skills of Billups to go along with his scoring), that won't win us a title. Prince will be gone (for nothing) and possibly RIP by then. I don't see Paul winning any titles with his cast (which is better than Stuckey would have around him then). What has Wade won without Shaq?

In fact, what teams have won without a dominant big man? We've been through this a hundred times. We were an anomoly in 2004. There hasn't been a team to win it without a good big since MJ was winning titles. Kobe doesn't have a dominant big, but you can't tell me that we have anything close to Bynum and Gasol here.

I'll take the chance on Bosh, or we'll never contend.

assuming we got some sort of guarentee from bosh, sure you obviously make a deal for him. But that's highly unlikely, and without that, it's a stupid gamble.

If we deal several quality players for bosh, then lose him, it sets us back another 4-5 years, and everyone who wanted to make a deal now will want Joe fired for wasting value on a 5-month rental.

Depends on the value given up. I'm willing to gamble with Tay/RIP/Max/Kwame/Daye in some sort of combination.

To gamble Stuckey I'd have to have assurances from Bosh's people that he'd stay.

Toronto is going to want some young Pieces. Most likely package would include Stuckey, Daye, Rip and Maxiell for Bosh and Belinelli.

Toronto is going to want some young Pieces. Most likely package would include Stuckey, Daye, Rip and Maxiell for Bosh and Belinelli.

I'd do that in a NY minute.

We get Bosh and get to shed Rip and Max's contracts.

I guess it all depends on what you think of Stuckey's future here and how much $ he's going to get. But maybe it doesn't. I suspect that even some Stuckey fans would make that deal.

of course you'd do that. Any sane person would. It's a deal Toronto wouldn't even think about doing unless they were %100 sure Bosh was leaving. But it's the minimum offer they would see from us in that unlikely event.

I'm also fairly sure they'd demand Villanuena in place of Maxiell, but Joe would likely say no.

That original deal you posted had the Raps taking on about $2.5m in extra salary this year. If we throw in Kwame's expiring deal for Jarret Jack that would even out the $ a little more and would get them another big to replace Bosh, free up more time for Stuckey, and get us a PG.

Jack/Bynum/Chucky
Gordon/Bynum
Tay/JJ/Summers
Bosh/Charlie V/JJ
Big Ben/Wilcox/Bosh/JJ

Now, that's what I'm talking about.

Only 11 guys, so we'd need to add some depth from somewhere.

Any trade that nets us Bosh and doesn't include BG and Nova I'd do.

Pistons Rodney Stuckey ranks 29th of 30 starting point guards in assist ratio (percentage of a player's possessions that end in an assist)

WOW!

That's pretty fucking bad

BTW, who ranks 30th?

I'm going to guess Derek Fisher.

Prolly either Fish or Alston.

Rodney Stuckey keeps
tabs on rumors

BY VINCE ELLIS
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

NEW YORK -- Rodney Stuckey admits he keeps
up with the happenings around the league.

He says he is a regular visitor to NBA news
clearinghouses Hoopshype.com and RealGM.com
because he likes following the latest rumors
around the league.

So he wasn't surprised to be asked about his
future with the Pistons on Wednesday night after
their latest loss -- this time a 128-104 blowout
to the Knicks.

He saw all those stories saying that he was the
Pistons' most valuable asset at the trade deadline
and that if a deal were to be done, Detroit would
most likely have to part with the third-year
guard from Eastern Washington.

Those rumors likely will restart in earnest this
summer when free agency begins.

Stuckey said he wants to stay in Motown but
understands the reality of the situation.

"Whatever happens, happens," Stuckey said. "It's
a business."

Stuckey learned that lesson when two games into
his second season the Pistons shipped Chauncey
Billups to the Denver Nuggets for Allen Iverson
in what was mostly a business move to clear cap
space.

But Stuckey, who had 16 points and six assists
against the Knicks, doesn't appear to be going
anywhere soon.

It's believed the Pistons are looking at other
trade avenues, and one of the reasons they didn't
deal at the deadline was because of a reluctance
to trade Stuckey.

Stuckey is playing OK, one of the only members
of the team playing to expectations.

The Pistons have to make a decision with
Stuckey in the off-season as they have a team
option and he is set to make $2.76 million next
season.

But Stuckey grinned and said of his future: "You
never can tell."

Also, welcome to our newest member "4CED_SHOTS".

We've been waiting for you.

I'd been planning on posting something like this prior to Stuckey's collapse, but hadn't gotten around to it. I was trying to find a site that presented the first names and more stats and was easy to cut+paste.

Besides Stuckey, these 51 players play 35+ mpg -- roughly 12% of all the players in the league. How many of them would you rather have in a Pistons uniform over Stuckey? Is Stuckey one of the top 12% of players in this league?



G. Wallace
M. Ellis
S. Jackson
A. Iguodala
K. Durant
L. James
C. Paul
O. Mayo
K. Bryant
J. Johnson
Z. Randolph
C. Anthony
L. Deng
D. Nowitzki
T. Ariza
L. Aldridge
J. Green
D. Williams
T. Evans
B. Lopez
R. Rondo
C. Landry
R. Allen
P. Gasol
J. Salmons
G. Arenas
D. Granger
C. Bosh
C. Butler
D. Rose
J. Kidd
D. West
M. Gasol
C. Kaman
D. Wade
E. Gordon
A. Brooks
S. Curry
R. Westbrook
B. Diaw
A. Horford
W. Chandler
K. Martin
P. Pierce
C. Boozer
D. Howard
R. Hamilton
K. Martin

^ :insensitive:

I'd been planning on posting something like this prior to Stuckey's collapse, but hadn't gotten around to it. I was trying to find a site that presented the first names and more stats and was easy to cut+paste.

Besides Stuckey, these 51 players play 35+ mpg -- roughly 12% of all the players in the league. How many of them would you rather have in a Pistons uniform over Stuckey?

I don't like the premise of grouping them by 35+ mins played. While most of the best players will be in that vicinity, for many players it's more a reflection of a given team's roster situation than how great the player is.


Is Stuckey one of the top 12% of players in this league?

If I had to answer off the cuff I'd say no.

Isn't Stuckey's minutes a direct reflection on the roster though?

I don't like the premise of grouping them by 35+ mins played. While most of the best players will be in that vicinity, for many players it's more a reflection of a given team's roster situation than how great the player is.
Our roster situation with respect to Stuckey largely exists because of Dumars trying to make him the chosen one.

I don't want to tear Stuckey down, really. I think Stuckey's talented. I just don't think he's talented enough for him to play the minutes that have been handed to him. Beyond that, while I think he has the heart (in a mental sense), his body doesn't quite have the stamina to handle those minutes. I've seen 3 games this past calendar year at the Palace. Stuckey looked and played like he was worn down, more than I expect -- I even noted it in a past post. My sense (and hope) is that these dizzy spells are a conditioning issue along with all the pressure put on him, not anything more serious. If so, then we really need to do an honest assessment of where he's at and where he should be on the court, before it turns into something more serious.

I've always believed that pushing your starters over 32 minutes during the regular season is just stupid.

Don't know why 32 is the magic number - I have no stat to back it up or any kind of info to support it.

But if the team can't find 4 (or 5) dudes that can come off the bench nightly and do a job for 16 minutes per at each spot then something is wrong.

Even our shitty team could do it:

Big Ben 28/Maxiell 20
Jerebko 28/Nova 20
Tay 30/ Rip 10/Stuckey 8
Rip 20/BG 28
Stuckey 22/Bynum 26

Not hard to do on paper lol

Too soon to say that they are a better team without Stuckey, but they certainly are more fun to watch, IMO.

No Showing at the WTF Multiplex:

Return of the Hype: The Thrill Ain't Gone

I'm counting down the days until y'all get back on Bynum's dick and start pimping him as a starter...

Despite everyone knowing that without him coming off the bench this team sucks monkey spunk.

His role is extremely important and he plays it extremely well - thank God someone on this fucking squad can do his job

Despite everyone knowing that without him coming off the bench this team sucks monkey spunk.



He didn't come off the bench yesterday and we looked better than we had been.

Though his D was actually as bad yesterday as K-Stat describes it. Ballhandlers just went wherever they wanted against him commanding doubleteams, leaving shooters open. Houston does better than 25% from deep and we're sunk.

Though his D was actually as bad yesterday as K-Stat describes it. Ballhandlers just went wherever they wanted against him commanding doubleteams, leaving shooters open. Houston does better than 25% from deep and we're sunk.
Brooks and Martin together make for a real tough cover for anyone. Brooks lit up Stuckey the same way a few months back.

Brooks and Martin together make for a real tough cover


No doubt, but Bynum found himself in some bad spots repeatedly. It's one thing to get beat, it's another when you just can't keep your man in front of you.

Filed under "Stuckey the worst shooter in the NBA?"


Luckily, there’s a stat that does take the extra value of three-point makes into consideration: Effective Field Goal Percentage (eFG%). eFG% is calculated through the formula (FGM + 0.5 * 3PM) / FGA so that three-pointers get the credit they deserve. Jennings’ eFG% on the season is .423. That’s still pretty bad, but it’s actually not even the worst in the NBA among players with over 900 FGAs. That dishonour goes to Pistons guard Rodney Stuckey, who has a .412 eFG% on 980 FGAs. Stuckey’s FG% of .406 makes him appear to be a better shooter to a casual observer, but he’s only 11-for-56 (19.6 percent) from three-point range this season, so he’s actually a worse shooter overall.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nba/2010/03/12/brandon-jennings-my-offence-is-terrible/

Check out the chart.

How can he shoot so poorly from inside the arc?

Seriously, trade him for a legit big at the first opportunity.

Filed under "Stuckey the worst shooter in the NBA?"



http://blogs.thescore.com/nba/2010/03/12/brandon-jennings-my-offence-is-terrible/

Check out the chart.

I remember arguing this with Cow like 3 years ago. Though to be fair you should include FT shit in there, which is why I like PPS better.

FTs made Stack seem like a decent scorer though. I loved his heart, but he was not a good #1 option on a winning team.

FTs made Stack seem like a decent scorer though.

Then he was a decent scorer.

I suppose. But a terrible shooter.

Maybe the least clutch player I have ever seen.

Dude just implodes in the last 5 minutes.

I think Kuester wanted to strangle him tonight.

Maybe the least clutch player I have ever seen.

Dude just implodes in the last 5 minutes.

I think Kuester wanted to strangle him tonight.

IIRC, he missed two shots in the closing minutes.

His 25 points were part of the reason that the last 5 minutes were even relevant.

I agree that he did play a very good 3.75 quarters. But it's a trend, not an exception, that he crumples down the stretch.

And it wasn't just missed shots, it was ballhogging, a key turnover, etc.

check dis.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ttioltrnyke

If I am interpreting this correctly, in the clutch, (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points) 66% of his shots are jumpers with an eFG% of .267

check dis.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ttioltrnyke

If I am interpreting this correctly, in the clutch, (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points) 66% of his shots are jumpers with an eFG% of .267

Why post a PDF as opposed to just:
http://www.82games.com/0910/09DET4.HTM#clutch
Glan, you clicktracker you... :)

Check out the overall league clutch stats:
http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTMl
Note Rip's impressively-good clutch play and the fact that all our other rotation guards suck in the clutch.

Actually, no, lol.

I took a quick glance at the surrounding stuff on the page and thought it was distracting or not relevant.

I actually tried to attach a copy paste of just the relevant, Stuckey-specific stats to my post as both a word doc and then a PDF, because I've never tried that before, but the file size limitations are ridiculously low.

Since I had the pdf made, I decided just to host it somewhere and link to it.

Sounds more complicated than it actually was. Ha ha

CLUTCH BABY, CLUTCH

Jameer (Detroit): Stuckey might not have been great against the Grizzlies, but he looked more comfortable playing off the ball. What did you think?

Langlois: Stuckey has had terrific games as the starting point guard, Jameer. The Pistons, and I, have always believed he could thrive playing off the ball. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a success as the point guard, though. In the right offense, surrounded by the right players, I still think Stuckey has a future at point guard. But if the Pistons were to land a player who clearly was a classic distributor, then by all means, move Stuckey off the ball. As well as Tracy McGrady has played this season, (a) he’ll be a free agent after the season with the Pistons holding no advantage in the pursuit to retain him and (b) McGrady as a full-time point guard carries its own disadvantages. There’s at least an even money chance Stuckey will return to point guard next season, if not before.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/Deuce1000/KyrieIrving11.jpg

I still think they should attempt to take Harris back in the Melo deal if Denver doesn't want him (send Murphy there).

check dis.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ttioltrnyke

If I am interpreting this correctly, in the clutch, (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points) 66% of his shots are jumpers with an eFG% of .267
Lol

I can't root for Rodney Stuckey again http://t.co/E4wpwgp

Bob Wojnowski: Rodney Stuckey, other Pistons should pay for their selfish behavior http://detne.ws/evHn8M

Bob Wojnowski: Rodney Stuckey, other Pistons should pay for their selfish behavior http://detne.ws/evHn8M


In fact, and I can't believe I'm typing this, if Dumars has to pick between re-signing Stuckey or keeping Hamilton (two years left on his contract), I'd actually keep Hamilton. At least he's done something in his career.

Ouch.

If we had taken Melo, we could have traded him this season and been experiencing a renaissance right now.

(Please reread that and pronounce the word ren-A-sance in your head)

Ted Mosby is that you?

Take your Rodney Stuckey blog post, run it through Google Translate and turn it into, let's say, Portuguese.

Then, run it through again and convert it back to English.

This is what you get.

Stuckey's Contract Situation (http://bynumite.blogspot.com/2011/04/stuckeys-contract-situation.html)

Stucknut city

Just read "Stuckey changes agent for the fifth time". Lol.

i am scared, Leon Rose is also RIPS agent, he might work his voodoo on Dumars again and Stuckey could sign a big fat extension

The Bucks are apparently thinking about trading Jennings. Think Hammond wants any part of Stuckey?

I don't know that I want Jennings. Just screams chucker to me.

Is Jennings supposed to be better than Stuckey?

Probably a better asset, if nothing else.

Kobe and Stuckey mentioned in the same breath:

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/27/how-durant-won-a-not-so-close-scoring-race-against-kobe/