Not in comparison to the other teams in the NBA, but our roster from last year. Are we better?

Discuss.

No. We may win a couple more games, but last year through December we could pretend we were a 50 win team if we could "just get it together". We thought no team wanted to catch us in the first round.

This year we know every team will want to place their hot knife in our butter come playoff time.

I think we'll have a similar record but miss the playoffs

I think we'll have a similar record but miss the playoffs

So does that make them better or not? lol

I don't see how this team could not be better compared to the train wreck of a team mercy-killed by cleveland last season.

I do think we are improved in the backcourt, if anything by the subtraction of AI. I do want to go on the record though saying that not playing Bynum as much will hurt us. He is like a smaller, almost equally efficient player as Stuckey on the offensive end. The hit we took in the frontcourt is sizeable (pun intended). I definitely think that Sheed was dogging it, but still better than whomever we put at C. I also think that Dice was pretty damn good at both C and PF for us. If you look at both ends of the court, I think its a wash between him and CV. CV with the edge on offense, and Dice the edge on D and ability to play C.

For next season I think we will be worse. Even dogging it last years team was better IMO. I think if we are able to get a C with our lotto pick next season or trades/free agency, then this team gets a serious jump in potential.

sheed last year was worse than anybody we brought in this year. he was shitty defensively and offensively. He couldnt defend anybody that wasnt a strict post player. Not to mention his tirades on the floor were a huge detriment.

losing him is no less a benefit than losing iverson.

The Pistons will be better next year. There's no way they won't be, barring injuries.

sheed last year was worse than anybody we brought in this year. he was shitty defensively and offensively. He couldnt defend anybody that wasnt a strict post player. Not to mention his tirades on the floor were a huge detriment.

losing him is no less a benefit than losing iverson.

i doubt Wilcox will be better than Sheed was last season...i expect a similar record too, hopefully a better offense, thats all

if wilcox shows up on one end of the floor, he'll be better than sheed by default.

LOL KStat, Sheed with 50% effort is better than Kwame or Wilcox. Dice at 100% effort was better than any other big on the team except maybe CV (yet to be seen). Of course, the applicable point here is that Sheed was probably giving on 35% or so, especially at the end. He will be awesome in Boston and will be starting there at C in no time. Fits in perfect there with his desire to move the basketball, his good D, bball IQ, and ability to hit a J.

Secretly I think that was the most underrated move of the offseason.

Dice is another story.

Sheed rarely even gave %50 effort last year, and his body cant give as much as it could anyhow. His total lack of conditioning is catching up to him quickly.

Sheed's ability to watch big man after big man step 5 feet outside the paint and repeatedly take wide open shots while sheed just stood and watched was amazing.

The best part of the season was the NJ game where harris and brook lopez ran 6 straight pick and rolls to start the game and sheed gave up 6 layups because he was either too slow to react or simply did not give a shit.

the old sheed I would be sorry to see go. The 2009 Sheed I'm very happy to see go. He refused to play or he couldn't play. Either way, anybody Joe picked up would be an upgrade.

As for the celtics, I suppose we will see next year if sheed's body has given up on him or he simply dogged it here last season.

Sheed & Dice vs. Villa & Wilcox, seriously, the our new guys might be younger, but thats it, Sheed-Dice are still better nba players...

Not better than last year, about the same. There will be at Least 8 other EC teams with better records.
Does that help?

12 points, 7 rebounds, terrible defense, poor shooting and he almost never got to the line.

I'm pretty sure he's not a quality starter anymore...

Not better than last year, about the same. There will be at Least 8 other EC teams with better records.
Does that help?
Yes, we get it, you're a woman. But that wasn't the topic at hand.

the biggest improvement is having a coach who knows what he's doing & can implant a structured offense...now we might not have a better record because of our weak frontcourt, but the success should be measured by how much our young guys improve...

12 points, 7 rebounds, terrible defense, poor shooting and he almost never got to the line.

I'm pretty sure he's not a quality starter anymore...

to me this still sounds like the best case for Wilcox next season, sry :p

Sheed was a good defender last year. Down from the past, but still one of the better deep post and rotational defenders in the league. Kstat is wrong.

first off, he didn't rotate. at all. Any pick and roll he would make a lazy attempt at a steal and let his man roll wherever he wanted.

He was ok when he was simply defending the post, but against any big that could play more than 3 feet from the basket, sheed got humiliated daily.

If you didn't see this, you probably didn't watch many pistons games last year. Sheed was routinely the guy the other team attacked up front. He was so slow he may as well have been 54 years old and not 34.

you think Wilcox, Villa & Maxiell will play any better D than Sheed, Dice + Amir/Max last season? also Kwame's man to man D is decent, but his help D is not...our frontcourt defense will definitly be worse than last season...

first off, he didn't rotate. at all. Any pick and roll he would make a lazy attempt at a steal and let his man roll wherever he wanted.

He was ok when he was simply defending the post, but against any big that could play more than 3 feet from the basket, sheed got humiliated daily.

If you didn't see this, you probably didn't watch many pistons games last year. Sheed was routinely the guy the other team attacked up front. He was so slow he may as well have been 54 years old and not 34.

I watched them, you are wrong, he was not one of the 3 best rotating centers in the league as he was when he joined the team (along with Ben and KG), but he was in the top 75 percentile. There was no need to attack him, they attacked our god awful 1-2-3, where Rip was our best defender for whatever that's worth.

He surely fell off, but he can take a long fall and still be better than the Yao-Dampier-Bogut-Miller group. Please don't pretend to make a point.

He is a serious loss.

Despite getting a much better coach (really, who could have been worse than Curry) I think that we will not be as good a team. Our back court is better but that's it. We lost what little interior D we had and rebounding will continue to be an issue. The lack of ANY interior D will put added pressure on our guards which will hurt their offensive production. Add to that having no real post players and a newer uptempo style offense and there will be a learning curve. Unless CV and Wilcox can prove to be better than expected defensively or Joe D regains some of his magic and makes a deal, we can maybe expect 35 wins IMO.

He is a serious loss.
Yes, i'll surely miss the constant technical fouls, piss poor shot selection and his ability to turn mediocre big men into all-stars with his piss poor defensive rotations.... how will we ever live without a center that takes more threes than free throws.

you think Wilcox, Villa & Maxiell will play any better D than Sheed, Dice + Amir/Max last season?
nope, but I expect more effort and a lot better offense.

My point wasnt that the frontcourt has been significantly upgraded. It was that the team itself has a better roster 1-12, and the frontcourt improved in many ways simply by sheed not being a part of it anymore.

Yes, i'll surely miss the constant technical fouls, piss poor shot selection and his ability to turn mediocre big men into all-stars with his piss poor defensive rotations.... how will we ever live without a center that takes more threes than free throws.


How about being in the top 30 for all big men in blocks, 5 in steals, and 3s on a team where the guards didn't shoot them? Maybe he was supposed to shoot a couple of those.

Top 30 blocks and 5 in steals. But we'll replace that with a guy who got benched for Luc Mbah a Moute due to his poor defense.

top 30 in blocks...lol

there are only 30 starting centers in the NBA...

top 5 in steals? Whats list are you looking at, the detroit pistons roster? The Detroit Shock Roster?

top 30 in blocks...lol

there are only 30 starting centers in the NBA...


How many big men are there.....how many of those top 30 start.....

So, Sheed is well above average there Kstat admits for me....

Carry on people, just owning a fool here.

oh yes, calling sheed top-5 in stealing the ball and then complimenting yourself on what a fine job you did...that's impressive...lol

Looking at starting centers he's around 18. 4th in steals.

But he's lazy.

Kstat meltdown....watch out kids.

I'm half expecting him to begin shaking, rip off his face, and reveal Langlois.

Looking at starting centers he's around 18. 4th in steals.

But he's lazy....so lazy in fact that he didn't even play in enough games to qualify...

Hermy loses again. I know you're used to that though, so I can fully expect another bhagdad bob denial and another self-proclamation about you being right about something you're obviously wrong in.

Try watching a piston game or two next season. You might have a better idea what you're talking about then.

It's sad to read someone that has to compliment himself in order to feel good about who he is.

...so lazy in fact that he didn't even play in enough games to quality...




Oh, he qualitied. He qualitied all year long. Serious quality.

So anyway, down off the ledge please, he was .04 or whatever from having a steal, a 3, and a block per game. Very, very rare air.

But he was a detriment.

Herms take: Quantifiable evidence and a history of being an elite defender despite the up and down effort that has followed his career.

Kstat: TRY WATCHING A PISTONS GAME! THEN YOU'D KNOW JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS THREAD....WHO IS CALLING ME AN IDIOT....HE DIDN'T PLAY ENOUGH GAMES....YEAH, THAT'S MY TAKE, THATS WHY HE WAS BAD....

sheed last year was worse than anybody we brought in this year. he was shitty defensively and offensively. He couldnt defend anybody that wasnt a strict post player. Not to mention his tirades on the floor were a huge detriment.

losing him is no less a benefit than losing iverson.

The Pistons will be better next year. There's no way they won't be, barring injuries.


How silly is all this?

now now hermy, back off the ledge...I hear PMS can be a nasty thing, as can an inferiority complex...it doesnt mean you're any less of a person than any of the men here.

Rasheed was out-scored and out-rebounded on average by the guy he was guarding last year. He topped 20 points a whopping seven times. Quantify that however you want, Susan.

Rasheed was out-scored and out-rebounded on average by the guy he was guarding last year.


I'd presume that was true throughout his career as a Piston.

Kstat makes up bullshit to feed his agenda

Seriously KStat, you are out of control today. I nominate you to be the Pistons blogger. It is like the Lions equivalent of Kowalski.

Kstat makes up bullshit to feed his agenda


Sheed last year got routinely outplayed by the guy he was guarding. Didn't make that up. He only scored 20 points 7 times all season. Didn't make that up, either.

He got torched repeatedly by less talented big men because he was either too lazy or too slow to recover on pick and rolls. That's also a fact.

People try too hard to remember the sheed of 2004 and apparently didnt watch enough of sheed humiliating himself in 2009.

I'll always appreciate sheed's overall body of work here, and I appreciate what he did for this franchise over the years. But the sheed of last year I have zero regrets about cutting loose. He's becoming more and more like Antoine Walker, so it's fitting he's heading to boston.

82 games says the pistons top 6 lineups included sheed in them.

Despite being outscored by his man, he has by far the highest on court/off court and win % of any starter we had last year. In fact his OC/OC was a full 3.5 points higher than any other starter. Our best team player by a long shot. His overall eFG was higher than the team and league average. His +/- led the team.

The Pistons were better when he played and will be worse now that he doesn't.

His asst/TO ratio is top 6 for starting centers. Of course this is because he doesn't play in the post, but factor it in with his eFG% and his offense was very, very potent given the lack of a true PG to feed him open looks.

he attempted more threes than free throws, and was 39th among frontcourt players in 3-point percentage. That's a potent center if I've ever seen one....

His 101 FTs attempted were good for 202nd in the league. Darko Milicic got to the line more often, and in fewer games.

Turns out 3s are worth more points than free throws. Just about 3 times as much.

yes, all centers should step out to the arc and chuck up threes. 3-point shooting is the mark of a great big man. Just ask Dwight Howard or Pau Gasol. I mean, who needs offensive rebounds or fouls on the other team?

I'll repeat it again: Darko Milicic took the ball inside more often than Rasheed Wallace last season.

Now sheed isn't a top 15 player in the league, so losing him is a benefit.

You're all over the place kid. Sheed shoots 3s. He shot them to the point that his eFG was higher than the league average, even when he doesn't shoot fts. He was an average offensive player. Which means losing him is bad.

And his defense is good. Which means losing him is very bad.

Just get over it man. It's dead.

his defense is good, yet he gets outscored by the guy he's guarding routinely.

His shooting is good, yet he's not even among the best 3-point shooting bigs in the league, nor does he go to the line at all or grab rebounds.

yeah, great logic there, chief.

Is this 1987? Are you seriously judging a players D by his scoring vs. his opponent on a basketball court?

Holy shit man. You're right, you win, bad defender. His opponent scores more than him.

His opponent scores more than him. Wow. I have to go, I have some batting averages to study.

http://www.crackunit.com/wp-content/image_well/pissing.jpg

It was just a matter of time until Mount Herm blew

:VOLCANO:

I just hope this team can now become de-sheed-ized. In other words, when Sheed came to Detroit he was the only one complaining about every call. Then Ben started to, then Rip, and even Tay. Hopefully Rip and Tay can get back to just playing and the new players can come in and just play as well.

Better or not, I'll be happy if the culture is different and I can simply watch good basketball. Teams can play good basketball and lose, and that's what I hope Pistons losses are like. Those teams eventually win.

K,

Why do you continue to use the "woman" thing as an insult?

You refer to Glen, myself and now Hermy as women. I realise you're always wrong and can't defend your position without attacking the poster and not the post but surely you can use a "better" personal attack other than "woman"...

You could even use this:

Hey you're so ugly that the last time you got a piece of ass your hand slipped through the toilet paper.

And if you can't think of your own insult try stealing from the greats:


[I]“A modest little person, with much to be modest about.”


I’ve had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn’t it.


There’s nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won’t cure.”

And 2 that seem to fit you right now:


He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts... for support rather than illumination


He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends.

Just trying to help you in your next battle of the "sexes".

Live strong, K

The best part is, that all it takes is a remark that is slightly less than complimentary of the Pistons team/organization and he loses it.

I lol'd at your Langlois comment, Herm, thanks.

And does anyone doubt that if Sheed was coming back this year that we wouldn't be hearing K's criticisms of him?

He loves them when they're here, hates them when they're gone.

It was just a matter of time until Mount Herm blew

:VOLCANO:


That wasn't shit. I'm still waiting for the other shoe/the opening tip. I just can't believe we're gonna take Stuck/Bynum/Gordon/Rip into the season when our center combo is Wilcox/Brown. If I have to watch that all year I'll freak the fuck out.

He loves them when they're here, hates them when they're gone.

Yeah, because I loved Curry so much when he was here....moron.

I mean, I was such a big fan of last year's team that I said when they were 10 games over .500 than they would finish the season below .500, back when you and the rest of the bandwagon crew was too busy sucking them off to notice they were set up to fail.

Hoopsworld, so take it FWIW


State of the Detroit Pistons

By: Yannis Koutroupis
Last Updated: 7/26/09 4:41 PM ET

Sometimes you have to close one door in order to open up another. That was Joe Dumars' mindset when he traded the 2004 NBA Finals MVP Chauncy Billups to Denver in exchange for Allen Iverson. The move ended up making the Pistons take a significant step backwards as they finished 39-43, their worst finish since 2001. They made the playoffs as the eight seed, getting swept by the Cleveland Cavaliers in the opening round.

There were a lot of factors that went into the Billups trade that kind of became an afterthought once the team started playing so poorly. Prior to the deal it appeared as if the Pistons' championship window was all but closed, so Dumars felt the need to put together a younger group who could compete for a longer period of time. The best way to do that was to ship off Billups in order to get as far under the cap as they could this offseason.

While the free agency period would be their best chance to improve, the Pistons had to worry about the draft first. With their three selections the Pistons invested in Austin Daye, DaJuan Summers, and Jonas Jerebko. At the time it was thought of as a solid draft for the Pistons, but after summer league it was evident that it was even better than that.

Daye was a curious pick for the Pistons because he's so undeveloped physically and really struggled during pre draft workouts. Everyone realized what the Pistons saw in him though after he averaged 17 points and eight rebounds in Las Vegas. Daye was by far one of the best players at the camp and what's most intriguing is the fact that he's so far away from maximizing his potential. Come three years from now it would be no surprise if Daye is one of the top ten players from the class, but he's probably only going to help in spurts during his rookie year.

Summers on the other hand looked ready to contribute now and his coaches said as much. He's got a lot more strength than Daye does at this point and just as much versatility. Rather than settling for the long ball like he did at Georgetown Summers was aggressive, always looking to attack. When it was all said and done in Vegas he was thought to be the biggest surprise and an absolute steal for the Pistons.

Although Jerebko took a backseat to Daye and Summers he still proved that he belonged. The big man from Sweden showed off an extensive offense skill set, the ability to hang down low, and some good defensive instincts. He's a nice investment that will be better later rather than sooner like Daye.

When the Pistons chose Daye, Summers, and Jerebko it was with Michael Curry as their head coach. However, just before the lifting of the moratorium period Dumars decided to fire Curry citing the need for a coach with a more experience. They went into negotiations without a coach, but it didn't stop them from immediately getting their top two targets in Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.

Gordon and Villanueva were two of the top players this free agency class had to offer. Gordon gives the Pistons a lot of flexibility and another explosive scorer to put alongside Rodney Stuckey and Rip Hamilton. Villanueva provides the same kind of inside-outside ability offensively that Rasheed Wallace did, but is not the same kind of defensive presence by any stretch of the imagination.

With the majority of the cap space now spent the Pistons looked to address their vacant head coaching position. The table was set for Avery Johnson to end his hiatus and take over, giving the Pistons the experienced leader that they were looking for. Had negotiations gone as smooth with Avery as they did with Gordon and Villanueva he'd be their head coach right now but that wasn't the case. Johnson and Dumars couldn't agree on the length of the contract, which led to the Pistons hiring Cleveland Cavaliers Assistant John Kuester.

While many may have scratched their head and rushed to a search engine when Kuester was formally hired, he's someone who Dumars is very familiar with. Like Curry he is a first time head coach, but he's got over 20 years of coaching experience under his belt. He served as an assistant under Larry Brown when the team won it all in 2004 and in Dumars' eyes was the best coach to develop this young, talented group he's assembled.

Since the hiring of Kuester the Pistons have signed Chris Wilcox and are rumored to be close to a deal with Ben Wallace. Other than some other minor moves the Pistons offseason is basically complete.

As things stand now the Pistons are not on par with the elite in the East. Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland all have superior teams but they're trying to build another championship team and that doesn't happen overnight. What Dumars has done is put together the most talented group possible that in time could develop into a championship caliber group. The 2008-2009 season is now a thing of the past with the future looking extremely bright. It's on Kuester to develop this team and help them reach their potential. He's basically been an unknown up to this point like most hardworking assistants, but now he really has a chance to prove his worth.

John Kuester on The Huge Show: Improved defense key to Pistons' possible turnaround

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/07/john_kuester_on_the_huge_show.html

Um, yeah.

John Kuester on The Huge Show: Improved defense key to Pistons' possible turnaround

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/07/john_kuester_on_the_huge_show.html

Um, yeah.

There is a Franz Kafka museum?

Joe D puts together a run and gun team with no defensive big men and the key to the team's turnaround is defense?? It's going to be a very long season!

maybe Kuester knows Stan vanGundys secret how to play defense, because i've never thought the Magic could play good defense with only one real good defensiv player in Dwight...we've got one good defender left in Tayshaun...still with this frontcourt i guess we're close to giving up 100 per game & scoring 100 per game would be a change too

Joe D puts together a run and gun team with no defensive big men and the key to the team's turnaround is defense?? It's going to be a very long season!

YOU ARE A GIRL AND YOU DO NOT WATCH ANY PISTONS GAMES ON TV WHEREAS I AM A MAN AND I DO

loveitwhenyoucallmebigswami

Joe D puts together a run and gun team with no defensive big men and the key to the team's turnaround is defense?? It's going to be a very long season!
The quote about improved defense doesn't really match what Kuester actually said, which was along the lines of "our offense will be ok, but we need to focus on defense".

I didn't listen to the audio. Either way, this team isn't going to be very good defensively. We are now designed more like a west coast team.

I just worked out why everyone is so pissed with Joe:

The Pistons have always been a defensive minded, tough, battle hardened and hard working team that "represented" the city or surrounding areas. They are/were the People's team - at least those people who had to work their fucking asses off everyday for their success.

And now people seem to think Joe Dumars has turned them into the Dallas Mavericks - running and gunning and no D having pussies.

Is it because we have offensive minded players? Does being a good offensive team seperate the current squad from past Piston squads? Surely Detroit has had some quality offensive teams in the last 20 years...

Or maybe people think that Joe has turned the franchise over to the glory boys like Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva - the new breed of NBA player that likes to shoot countless jumpers and "don't" play D?

Um, say what you will about the roster but almost every single player on there is a "Joe type" - a reject from somewhere else with something to prove and the ability to do so.

I'm not shilling for the franchise (I leave that to kstat since he does it so convincingly) but is it the end of the world if Joe builds a team that wins games 110-108 instead of 85-83?

And if we're all honest with ourselves we knew that teams as offensively challenged as some of our previous squads were destined for the scrap heap and that style of ball is dying.

Why would we wanna continue to play that way when it just can't compete anymore? The rules changes ensured it.

So you build a new model the best way you can.

And then you stand up and fight. If the current roster plays balls out, all-heart basketball I don't give a fuck if they lose 60 games. I was so tired of seeing dudes half-ass it anyway.

I'm only pissed at Joe because Okafor just got traded for Chandler's contract. I'd have given them Prince and picks for Okafor in a heartbeat. Joe didn't get it done.

Other than that, I've had no real problems or complaints with his moves. It's always just been about getting the big man.

Maybe Joe offered them that and they refused?

Or do you know what offers Charlotte had on the table?

Maybe Joe offered them that and they refused?

Or do you know what offers Charlotte had on the table?
What crawled up your ass today, P? Normally I agree with your comments, but you're jumping all over people after this deal. I never said I knew what was going on in Charlotte's front office. Just like you never knew what was going on in our scouts' offices or in the pre-draft workouts and camps, but that doesn't stop you from jumping all over the draft. Calm down.

Dude, I am as a calm as a snail leaking that silver shit everywhere.

I am going "crazy" on people because I just can not see Joe passing on Okafor when the price is so low.

I might think Joe has fucked up a lot but surely he is not this fucking dense?

Surely Okafor for Prince and a pick was never on the table?

I just can not believe Joe would pass up Okafor to sign Ben Gordon, especially with Rip on the books!

Okafor and Rip both signed for 4 more years = stable fucking winning team. You can change the other parts as you need but with those 2 in place you are rock steady.

Surely, surely he didn't pass on this....

I can not believe he would turn this down. It's just out of my realm of possible fuck ups.

I'm not saying he turned it down. I was wondering if he even called and offered.

For all of you "smallball" fans...


Artie (Holland, Mich.): If you have to project the Pistons’ starting lineup today, what would it be?

Langlois: Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Villanueva and Brown. I go with Brown over Wilcox because I’m guessing John Kuester will look at his stable of big men – Brown, Wilcox, Maxiell and Villanueva – and choose to split up the scoring of Villanueva and Wilcox and opt for the bigger body of Brown against opposition starting centers. The finishing lineup might be the bigger question, and that very could end up being Stuckey, Hamilton, Gordon, Prince and Villanueva many nights.

I hope we run that on the Spurs ... again.

I'll probably turn off the TV if it's a close game and that lineup comes onto the floor out of a timeout.

If somebody has time a link to Krista's hubby's piece in the Freep about the Pistons missing the playoffs would be good

I would but I can't post links from my phone

Hubby refers to a piece from NBA.com

What the alley fuck Glenn, i don't even know who her husband is. your Krista infatuation is troubling.

He writes about sports for the Freep and has the same last name that she does

I just worked out why everyone is so pissed with Joe:

The Pistons have always been a defensive minded, tough, battle hardened and hard working team that "represented" the city or surrounding areas. They are/were the People's team - at least those people who had to work their fucking asses off everyday for their success.

And now people seem to think Joe Dumars has turned them into the Dallas Mavericks - running and gunning and no D having pussies.
I was a fan when the Pistons were an offensive-minded team who didn't play defense. Check out the Tripucka era. when we won the highest scoring game ever played in the NBA. We could rack up the points like nobody's business. Unfortunately, that got us to 40-odd wins and an early playoff exit.

Well Mxy I guess the marketing for fans as old as you will be "welcome back to the bad ol' days".

IF we got Okafor for Prince and picks I could actually convince myself we'd make the second round of the playoffs.

Without a big like him in the middle I have serious doubts.

Here's that there Jahnke thing.

----------

National writer: Pistons might miss playoffs next season (http://wtfdetroit.com/article/20090729/SPORTS03/90729051/1051/SPORTS03/National-writer--Pistons-might-miss-playoffs-next-season)

Not everybody was impressed by the Detroit Pistons' off-season moves, apparently. John Schuhmann of nba.com put the team on a bad summertime list: the five 2009 playoff teams most likely to miss the postseason next year.

IF we got Okafor for Prince and picks I could actually convince myself we'd make the second round of the playoffs.
u really believe Okafor is that good? He never took the bobcats anywhere, dont know if i predicate our playoff capability on him minus another starter in return.


Of course as far as this naive Tay trade idea goes, i doubt LB wants another wing guy. Knock Chandler all you want but i think LB WANTED him and if couldn't get a big he wanted in return, he deal wasn't happening. Again dont think about what you think of chandler, this is LB we're talking about. He isnt randomly stupid, just has a crazy method. What i mean in that is that he probably wanted this deal and offering Tay or kwame doesnt seem like something he'd agree with.

Assuming we got Okafor/Bell for Tay/Kwame:

Having a big that can consistently put up 14, 10 with 2 per game is much better than anything we have right now or are likely to get.

While they haven't made the playoffs it's possible that's because they never had a starting unit of Okafor, Nova, Bell, Rip and Stuckey with Gordon, Maxiell, Wilcox, Daye, Bynum and Summers off the bench.

That's some talent - but without Okafor to man the middle it's a much weaker team

Anyone think we're desperate enough for a starting big to start trading big-time assets (you may define "big-time" however you wish)?

I doubt it, but I think it could happen.

depends on the big. I'd move RIP or Tay with a rook or two for a Kaman/Okafor type big. I'd include Stuckey for a legit all star big (like Howard). I doubt anybody I would trade Stuckey for is available though.

Assuming we got Okafor/Bell for Tay/Kwame:

Having a big that can consistently put up 14, 10 with 2 per game is much better than anything we have right now or are likely to get.
At center? yea. Overall? not so sure he offsets losing Tay's experience with those numbers. Also LB taking on Kwame Brown and losing his boyscout Bell? Only in Bizarro world. On an LB coached team Kwame sees the bench for life the first time he fumbles a pass, which wouldn't take long.

So Kwame has LB AND Jordan against him, most likely.

So Kwame has LB AND Jordan against him, most likely.
i forgot Kwame was Jordan's Darko. No chance he accepts kwame just on that alone.