Yes, it's another off-season thread.

But this time it's not page 50 of some other thread with a lot of whining and crying and crap.

This thread is not for trade ideas or signings or rumours or rubbish.

This is not the thread where you play Devil's Advocate or bi-polar or (like me) post stuff to ruffle feathers or bait someone.

This is the thread where you are 100% honest about our off-season.

If you wanna rant, go ahead.

If you wanna praise, then do so.

And Hermy - we've been patient - I'm dying to read your thoughts.

Incomplete.

The best word that I have for how I feel about the offseason is “disappointed”.

We had the cap room to facilitate deals, Joe was “King”, and in a flash it was over and it left an unsatisfactory taste.

For years now, we have watched this team lack a dominant inside presence both offensively and defensively. I know that I am not the only one that got sick of watching a team that relied on jumper after jumper as their only source of offense. This was the year that I was sure that it was going to be addressed. Boozer was flawed, but goddamn it, he’s a 20/10 guy that PLAYS IN THE FUCKING POST. If we could get him, adding a few defensive role players to team up with him seemed like a solid course of action. Once it started to leak that the Pistons were shying away from Boozer, then thoughts of Millsap and David Lee started to trickle in. Chandler was also intriguing, but his injuries seem like a big obstacle to him being dealt. Once the signings of Gordon and Charlie were known, I starting thinking that an Okafor trade was most likely, given Charlotte’s needs and financial trouble.

Nope.

More thoughts…

The Draft
It’s early, but it seems like these guys can all play, but if you are not going to take the best player available with each pick (we didn’t) then why on earth do you draft 3 guys that all play the same position? (just like we did at SG couple of years back)

Center
As mentioned above, THIS was finally the year that we shored it up with a legit, game-changing big man. I know that 2-way + centers are very hard to come by, so I would have been satisfied with either a dominant offensive center or a dominant defensive center. We got Chris Wilcox. Fail.

Power Forward
I like Charlie well enough, but replacing our jumpshooting bigs with another wasn’t my idea of a makeover. I’m guessing that he’ll be fine and he’ll play up to his contract, which isn’t outrageous, but it’s sort of blah to me.

Small Forward
I like Tay, but I see him as overpaid and a risk to break down soon. There are a lot of miles on those tires. So what do we do? Draft 3 small forwards. What good is it to be 4 deep at SF when you have no bigs? We’ve all wanted a backup for Tay for years now, but this is ridiculous. Trade Tay now, please. Sell high.

Shooting Guard
We’re stacked here. Great job, Joe! Rip’s been great, but it’s time to go now. We traded the wrong guy last week. Rip/Gordon/Stuckey is not going to work.

Point Guard
Another soft spot on the team. We’ve got nobody that’s going to be focused on getting others good looks. Bynum is the best we’ve got at that, but he just happens to be at his best when he’s attacking. Need a playmaking PG, badly.

So we’re weak up front and weak in the back, not a good combination.

Anybody for a game of HORSE?

I've definitely come around to the CV signing. He's fairly cheap, he's shown steady improvement, and he can create mismatches. I hope he can get focused on D.

I'm extremely disappointed in our lack of a C. We needed a post presence. It was our top need by a wide margin. We downgraded at the position.

I'm sad to see Afflalo go, but I fully understand the move. Business is business.

I like our draft. I don't have a problem with who we took, and we may very well have taken BPA according to our scouts. If you don't count Blair (injury concerns made him slide), Daye can be argued as BPA at his spot, Summers was probably the BPA where he was (supposed to be a 1st rounder), and Jerebko is another very solid pick. If you think they weren't BPAs, name the guys that were better, other than Blair since he's already been mentioned. Daye is going to be a starting 3 if he can add strength. Summers is going to be a solid backup. Jerebko will probably play some 4 and a little 3. They all have a future role on this team if they develop.

I have no problem with Wilcox as frontcourt depth. If we signed him as a starter, that is a downer, but for what we gave him it's not a bad pickup.

I think we overpaid Gordon. I like what he brings to the table and think we can have him guard PGs and Stuckey guard SGs.

I think Stuckey would be better as a 3rd guard/combo guard. He needs to prove he can be a starting PG at this point.

We need to move Rip. Stuckey/Gordon/Rip will not work unless Gordon proves he can play some PG and he isnt a blackhole with the ball.

I'm not as down on Tay as everyone else. I think if he was given a bigger role in the offense, he'd show more. Unfortunately, he's the #4 option once again. He's consistent, he's reliable/durable, and he started stepping up as a leader last year. I'm happy to have him. If we'd moved him for a big, I would have been fine as well.

I have no problem with the new coach. He's an upgrade from Curry. We'll see what he's got.

I liked the draft. I might have taken a pick or two different (didn't know anything about Jonas), but I thought we had a good haul there for a change.

I'm fine with the coaching hire. Not sure whether it will pan out or not, but he has to be light years better than Curry.

I'm ok with the signings. Maybe we could have gotten Gordon a little cheaper, maybe not. An extra mil or two could have gotten us a better player than Wilcox, but I'm fine with his signing after our salary was what it was.

I'm still hoping for a trade though. Until we move RIP for a young decent center we're just not going to compete. It doesn't have to happen now, but the sooner the better. Less chance for bruised egos at SG, more time to gel. If we don't get one, we won't get back to the top again.

overall, disappointed.

Maybe it was because there were okafor and kaman rumors. Some were unrealistic, some were hopeful. this was suppose to be our offseason. We didn't net ANY all-star caliber players. i guess you could say look at what joe did before our championship. We got hungry players with specific skill sets. too bad the way the nba is played changed after we won.

Honestly, we failed. Stuckey plays better at the 1. What do we need? A pass first point guard. We have too many shooting guards who need shots/touches. As much as I love rip, he's gotta go. At small forward, were okay. Tay could finally have legit backups. I really hate how he just sucks vs the elite small forwards. Im not expecting him to stop Lebron or pierce to 10 points a game, but while holding down his opponent to 20 a game, he needs to score as well. At the 4, CV was a bargain. However, looking at other players on the market, we could've done better. I dont even need to start at the 5. Wilcox was a great option IF we picked up a legit center...If

Happiest moment? Curry getting fired. Angriest? Signing BG so fucking fast for so fucking much.

I think we are done though. We have 6 players from the team left...Stuckey, Bynum, Hamilton, Prince, Max, and Kwame. trading rip and tay means 3 new starters with a new coach. It's going to be hard winning games like that.

My post is just a shittier one of Glenns. well put sir

Agreed w/ Chris on the disappointed. I am not entirely unhappy with the assets we have obtained, but Joe D has shown time and again to me that he is basically on a 1:1 ratio for good to bad decisions. I would argue that may actually be a good ratio, compared to other GMs in the league.

Pre-offseason - Extending Maxiell I didn't agree with when we did it, but it was at 5 M per and he just had a great series with the Cavs. Extending Rip when we projected to have the cap space and no competitors just doesn't make sense. It makes even less sense once JD figured to go after BG. He had to know that there were no other SGs available. In the end, Rip could have also been had for less or we could have dealt his expiring if we were rebuilding. A nonextended Rip is an asset, not a liability.

Offseason - no prob with CV or BG, but you don't have a bench guard making that much. That's what MLE money should be for. A good 3 guard rotation is awesome, but if our plan was to get BG (the best FA), we shouldn't have extended Rip. It's not like we were playing well anyway. If there are no takers for Rip I understand, but that's our fault.

Outside of passing on Blair, which is obscenely ludicrous to me, I am fine with all of our draft picks. I would not have been upset with Blair at 15 since he actually could play C for us. If Tay is on the move though, we better have someone that can play there, which I was fine with the crazy draft.

The trades - we didn't use our cap space wisely in trade at all. Good players were available. We just weren't willing to part with enough to get them. Whether it was stuckey, are other guys, picks or space we didn't get it done. We aren't privy to what was done behind closed doors, just to evaluate the end result.

The future - a trade? I hope but I doubt it now. We have few tradeable pieces, need to keep our future pics, and seem unwilling to move Stuckey, our most valuable piece. Maybe we do well in the lotto next season and can land a C, really what separates us from being a playoff contender. Stuck, BG, TP, CV, and some good C is a nice 5, and maybe thats his plan. We will see I guess.

I think what you see in the Pistons organization in the offseason says a lot more about your expectations than it says about Joe D.

Here's what I know: The Detroit Pistons are not the Los Angeles Lakers. They are also not the Boston Celtics, the Cleveland Cavaliers, the Houston Rockets, or the Orlando Magic. Therefore, any expectations have to be moderated by the simple fact that, at best, some Eastern Conference team is going to make them look terrible somewhere in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. This is just how it's going to be. Take a breath and learn to live with it now.

You should adjust your expectations accordingly. If these trades put together a team that is able to at least put up a good fight while losing in the first round, and show some future promise, then you should be ready to give it a B. Otherwise you're judging this team on factors that are unrelated to this offseason.

Swami,

With all due respect, it sound as if you are looking at it as we were making the best of a bad situation. The reason for all of the disappointment is that we were in an excellent situation. We were holding most of the cards. We may be spoiled but we had a right to expect better or at least the right to complain when we didn't get it.

FAN-O-METER v1.1

I agree with Glan about not getting the big-time big, but I'm still hopeful there.

Overall I'm happy about this offseason. First of all we got rid of Curry. How can this offseason not kick ass for that reason alone? Did anyone really think Joe would do that? We all hoped, but did you really think he'd do it?

I think we got some interesting players in Gordon and Charlie V. I think our coach is at least not a total moron and can actually diagram a play in the NBA.

I hope we'll at least be competitive on some level and exciting to watch. Last year was painful. I'm hoping to see a team that can compete every game and put some fear in the big guys every once in a while. I think we can at least do that.

I'm in the "happy" category, overall.

I think Ben Gordon at $11+ million/year is a mistake. He strikes me as a premium rendition of Eddie House, in a year where Eddie House was a FA available for a lot less.

I'm somewhat disappointed that we didn't exercise our cap flexibility and reasonably-priced assets (e.g. Amir, Afflalo) to shed questionable contracts or leverage other teams for their premium assets.

I like the CV and Wilcox signings. I think that somewhere in our draft picks, we have a complementary backup to Tay and interesting future prospects.

I'm so ecstatic about ditching Curry that it overrides a lot of other shit.

Eddie fucking House....

Outside of passing on Blair, which is obscenely ludicrous to me, I am fine with all of our draft picks. I would not have been upset with Blair at 15 since he actually could play C for us. If Tay is on the move though, we better have someone that can play there, which I was fine with the crazy draft.


Why do people keep talking about Blair at center? That dude is 6'6" tall (yes, long arms, but come on). He's an undersized PF that will be good for points in the paint and rebounding off the bench. A solid 6th man (as long as his knees hold up) and that's it.

I can see people wanting him in the 2nd round (a 6th man in the 2nd round is a good haul), but I also think we got our own backup forward that will be around longer (summers).

Maybe if he hadn't extended Max he would have taken Blair, but we already have that player.

Not happy if they don't make a trade for a big. It sucks that we aren't an elite team anymore and we can't hang with the big dogs like we used too a few years back.

Swami,

With all due respect, it sound as if you are looking at it as we were making the best of a bad situation. The reason for all of the disappointment is that we were in an excellent situation. We were holding most of the cards. We may be spoiled but we had a right to expect better or at least the right to complain when we didn't get it.
Respeck back at you, but let's take your analogy a step further. When there's 75 cents in the pot, how awesome is it really to be holding all those cards?

Blame Joe all you want for setting us up with HUGE cap space at a point when there weren't any good players available, fine. But what he's doing with that space isn't completely horrible, considering the circumstances.

I don't really have that much more to add. If I did, I'd have a hard time choosing one of the 14 threads where everyone is saying the same things over and over again.

Respeck back at you, but let's take your analogy a step further. When there's 75 cents in the pot, how awesome is it really to be holding all those cards?

Blame Joe all you want for setting us up with HUGE cap space at a point when there weren't any good players available, fine. But what he's doing with that space isn't completely horrible, considering the circumstances.

I don't really have that much more to add. If I did, I'd have a hard time choosing one of the 14 threads where everyone is saying the same things over and over again.

That argument only holds water if you HAVE to spend all of that cap. We could have signed a couple of cheaper players and maybe picked up another expiring or two and had a bunch of cap space next off-season (although a lot of other teams will as well). I just expected a lot more (or better deals) than what we actually got.

i don't know how to feel, what does our roster even look like as of now?

But to answer the question behind this thread:

A little bloated, and emotionally fragile. Gonna stay home from work and watch Milo & Otis, and avoid learning anything about the Pistons today.

what does our roster even look like as of now?
Stuckey/Bynum
Hamilton/Gordon/Stuckey
Prince/Daye/..Possibly Summers/Jerebko
Villanueva/Max/Wilcox/..Possibly Summers/Jerebko
Brown/Wilcox

Yuck

GOD STOP FUCKING BITCHING GLAN IT IS SO ANNOYING. You are not just emo, but an emo girl. I can practically feel the estrogen through my computer screen.

Read the thread title, holmes.

I'm just staying on topic, so get over it.

Boo! Waaaa! *cry...*

So sad.

.....*



Take note, eRay... THAT is gay as all Hell "emo".

Boo! Waaaa! *cry...*

So sad.

.....*



Take note, eRay... THAT is gay as all Hell "emo".
Wouldn't "emo" be more like:

From the depths of my black soul
My heart is crying out
It's the end, there's nothing left
Why bother going on, life is futile and pathetic
Joe Dumars, why have you forsaken us
My soul weeps
Add in some more references to sadness, soul, life being worthless, etc etc

That should be Glan's sig.

How do I really feel?

I feel that most of y'all are missing the big picture.

I feel that if you expected Joe to dump every dude under contract then you obviously were off your friggin' rocker.

I feel that you guys are still somewhat caught up in the fact we spent our cap space on opening day and haven't moved on from the initial "shock".

How do I really feel?

I feel that most of y'all are missing the big picture.
Do you think you have the big picture?

If you think the big picture is "accumulating pieces, not really competing this year", is this a "big picture" that you're particularly happy with?

Yes, that is "my" big picture. Am I happy with it? Of course not.

I'm not happy the NBA is now a league of punk ass bitches that shoot almost as many free throws as they do "regular" shots. I'm not happy that dudes can't smash the likes of Lebron, Wade and Kobe when they dare come down the lane. I'm not happy you can't hand check, you can't bump cutters and you can't play tough D in the post without some ref blowing his whistle the minute someone gets a bit physical.

But I undestand why the league has become what it's become, just like I understand Joe's changes. I'm still a fan of the game and the Pistons and while I won't blindly bow down to Joe I will still try to wrap my head around his vision and see where he's going with it.

And I see a clear vision. I see a GM that has once again lined up his favored win-win scenario. Win-win, you ask?

Let's assume we sign Ben Wallace to vet's minimum, because I think it's gonna happen. He will be the starting C, if only to get fans into the game from the tip. Fans will likely show up to welcome him back with open arms. We're talking full court press on Ben, Powder, Prince, Rip, Stuckey and Gordon. It appeals to old and new fans alike.

I honestly believe our team will be competitive. It doesn't really matter though because Joe can always point to rebuilding as the reason for failure. Assuming the worst let's say we miss the playoffs. Congrats - we just got a Lotto pick. Draft a big man and use the MLE on a big man and away you go.

But what happens if things fall for Joe?

Let's say Toronto (Bosh), Phoenix (Amare), Charlotte (Okafor), Golden State (Biedrins) or the Clippers (Camby/Kaman) for whatever reason start to wonder what kind of package they can get for their bigs - some of whom will be able to walk at the end of the season?

And imagine they ring Joe, since it's obvious we need a big and Joe offers some kind of package including Kwame, Maxiell, Stuckey, Daye, Summers, Jerebko, our 2010 pick or Houston's second rounder

Is that something a team like Toronto might be interested in?

A possible line-up (for you Tahoe - cause I haven't see you in a bit):

C: Chris Bosh/Ben Wallace
F: Charlie Villaneuva/Chris Wilcox
F: Tayshaun Prince/DaJuan Summers/Jonas Jerebko
G: Richard Hamilton/Ben Gordon
G: Will Bynum/Ben Gordon

Would Toronto accept Kwame, Maxiell, Stuckey and Daye for Bosh?

We'd be one PG away from being fucking fully sick.

And yes ladies and gentlemen - that's "my" big picture.

That's my remedy. If you're in pain it could be your remedy too.

Just convince yourself Joe isn't done, he's plotting a big trade during the season (Deadline deal for Bosh!) and that all that we have come to know and expect (success) is right around the corner.