:kennythejet:

IM IN UR THREAD
FUKIN UP UR POLL

I'm wondering how I should approach this....

I could go off on some weird rant about nothing or I could actually pretend to care.

At this point anything is possible.

Nah, I deceided against both

Should one go for a big, yes. I'm beginning to think all we'll do is sign a couple vet big men and that's it.

4 games in

It may just be wishful thinking on my part, but I think they both go.

If we're rebuilding, then don't go halfway.

We've got adequate, younger and (mostly) cheaper replacements for both of these guys now.

Let's get some young bigs in here.

i am scared Drew Gooden qualifies as a young big, he's 27 and Joe D just dumped AA to overpay him...i want RIP gone definitly, if it takes Tay to get a good starting 5 he can go too...but its more likey both stay, and that would suck big time...

Now that we have our big time scorer in Gordon, we should trade Rip for a good, young, defensive guard. I hear that this Afflalo guy who plays for Denver fit those criteria.

Now that we have our big time scorer in Gordon, we should trade Rip for a good, young, defensive guard. I hear that this Afflalo guy who plays for Denver fit those criteria.


No, you said good.

I actually don't mind Gooden off the bench at the right price (even if he looks like a penis).

He shouldn't be anywhere near the starting lineup, though.

It may just be wishful thinking on my part, but I think they both go.

If we're rebuilding, then don't go halfway.

We've got adequate, younger and (mostly) cheaper replacements for both of these guys now.

Let's get some young bigs in here.

I agree. I think they will both be gone before Joe's plan is complete. However, I'm not sure it happens this year. It should happen ASAP because RIP's value could take a huge hit depending on how the rotation shakes out. He should probably also deal Bynum if RIP doesn't get moved right away. His value will be ruined with BG getting all the backup guard minutes.

He just needs to move RIP or Tay now for a legit center. Even if we have to play RIP at SF, it's more important to get the center for the future. He can always move RIP later.

No, you said good.

Afflalo is a good young player. I didn't say great or even very good. I just said good.

Afflalo is a good young player. I didn't say great or even very good. I just said good.


If you think below average is good, then it's good. I think good is above average, which he is not.

He's a good role player. Not a good player in general. Good players generally get 25-30+ minutes a night regardless.

He's an average 4th guard in a rotation....but a fine 5th.

How far would you be willing to go to get that young C? Would you trade Rip and Tay for a young C and a couple piss-poor contracts?

I'm not suggesting this trade at all. Just using it as a baseline example:

Rip (4yr/$45.6) - Tay (2yr/$21.5) - Kwame (1yr/$4m) for Okafor (5yr/$62.8m) - Nazr (2yr/$13.3m) - Diop (4yr/$26.8m) - Vlad (2yr/$13.3m)

I deal like this, no matter what team it's with, pretty much leaves us with what we've got on the roster right now along with a young center and some bloated contracts. We'd have to hope that Max pans out as the backup PF, Washington can handle backup SG, Diop isn't a complete waste of space as a backup C for the next 4 years because you're not getting rid of him, and one of our rookies steps up and handles SF.

Would you do it?

take out Diop and Kwame, i think 2 bad contracts are more than enough...

I think you'd more likely take out Nazr or Vlad and Kwame. They'd want to get rid of Diop's deal first and foremost. Again though, I was just asking if we'd be willing to take on some poor contracts and lose rip and prince to get that C.

If they are poor contracts that can actually play and contribute in the rotation, then yes.

Well, what teams have Cs that fit the mold we need?

If they are poor contracts that can actually play and contribute in the rotation, then yes.

agree %100. If we get the center of the future, we don't need to worry about cap space at all. We can replace Tay and RIP with Gordon, our rookies and the MLE (in the future).

As long as the players are solid contributors for the length of their contract (ie Joe wouldn't want to move them) it doesn't really matter.

What about possible 3-team deals? Charlotte and Portland. Charlotte is under a mandate to stay under the luxury tax and they're trying to resign Felton to a long term deal. Detroit and Portland both have cap space. We need a young C like Okafor and Portland is after Prince. GET IT DONE, JOE!

Per ESPN - talking about trying to resign Felton

Money has been an issue for Charlotte all offseason, even as they try to obtain another power forward, perhaps through a trade.

The Bobcats, already over the salary cap, are under orders from owner Bob Johnson not to go over the luxury tax threshold of $69.9 million.

We have a power forward that we could give them in a trade.

What would Portland send Charlotte? They'd have to get something worth moving Okafor. Like Bayless, Fernandez or Batum.

I doubt Bayless would fit with Felton/DJ. What about Fernadez?

Charlotte currently is set at PG, assuming they can resign Felton.
Felton-Augustin-Singletary

At SG, they only have Raja Bell, at PF they only have Diaw, but they have 4 Cs.

We send them Rip to start at SG, allowing Bell to backup SG and SF (they use Radmanovic as the SF backup right now), and Max to give them some PF depth that they're looking for.
We send Prince to Portland.
We obviously get Okafor from Charlotte. Who else goes where?

Charlotte gets - Rip, Max, Webster or Batum
Detroit gets - Bell, Okafor
Portland gets - Prince, Diop

I don't know if the numbers work at all, just an idea.

Charlotte would get a starting SG and a backup SG/SF (Webster if he's healthy, Batum as the backup plan), and a backup PF. They clear enough salary to resign Felton under the luxury tax.

Portland gets Prince without having to touch their core by taking on Diop's bad contract. They probably have to put another piece in the trade to make salaries work, like the other of Webster/Batum or Fernandez to the Pistons.

Pistons get the young C they need, Bell as a one-year starter at SF while the rooks develop, and potentially a backup SG/SF so we aren't relying on Washington as our backup since all of our rookies are SF/PFs.

Thoughts?

I like where you are going, and those are two of the better trading partners that we probably have, but I doubt that Charlotte is motivated to take on Max and that Portland gives up Batum in that deal, he's good.

That deal would be a hot beef injection of defense into the Pistons, btw, even if we give up two of our better defenders in Rip and Max.

That deal is more complicated than it needs to be I think. I also think it doesn't work until Millsap is matched (they wouldn't have enough cap space).

Why not start with Tay to Portland, Okafor here and Fernadez to Charlotte and tweak that? I think Portland would have to send Charlotte a pick or something.

Sub Outlaw for Batum. He's behind Tay and Batum at SF and they just drafted 2 PFs.

They may feel that Max can rebound from last year by getting away from the poor environment we had. They need PF help, if they can get it in this deal that's not bad.

Charlotte gets Rip (11.6), Webster (4.3). Outlaw (4)
Blazers get Prince (10.3), Diop (6)
Pistons get Okafor (10.5), Bell (5.3)

Charlotte saves 2 million with Outlaw backup up SF/PF

Pistons send out $21.9m and take back $19.8m, which means we can still try to make anothe move with Kwame's expiring and $4.7m in cap space.

Edit: Simplified for Chris

All of this is assuming that Millsap is matched.

I don't think Charlotte is moving Okafor for Fernandez and a pick. Plus, that leaves us with no SF, unless we can move Rip somewhere for a SF.

How about Prince to Portland, Oden to Charlotte, Okafor to Detroit? Since Prince for Oden was brought up earlier, why not this. Oden is a lesser version of Okafor, and he costs half as much. Blazers get the guy they're after, we get the guy we're hopefully after, Charlotte still has a young C, he's fighting through an injury recovery but he's half the price and allows them to save money and resign Felton.

Damnit i walked into the fun with trades section. WTF?

My bad.

Charlotte gets Rip (11.6), Webster (4.3). Outlaw (4)
Blazers get Prince (10.3), Diop (6)
Pistons get Okafor (10.5), Bell (5.3)



Charlotte send 15.8 and take back 19.9 - not possible unless they have cap space or a trade exception since the most they can take back is $19,750,000

Portland have the cap space to take back more salary so even though they send 8.3 they can take back 16.3 (if they have $8 mil in cap space). In this idea they take back 16.3 so that's cutting it close - but it works.

We deal out 21.9 and get back 15.8.

Find a small contract from Charlotte worth approx $2,500,000 and send it our way. This makes the deal possible.

Not gonna happen - but possible.

Charlotte send 15.8 and take back 19.9 - not possible unless they have cap space or a trade exception since the most they can take back is $19,750,000

Portland have the cap space to take back more salary so even though they send 8.3 they can take back 16.3 (if they have $8 mil in cap space). In this idea they take back 16.3 so that's cutting it close - but it works.

We deal out 21.9 and get back 15.8.

Find a small contract from Charlotte worth approx $2,500,000 and send it our way. This makes the deal possible.

Not gonna happen - but possible.
Check your numbers, P. Charlotte is sending out Okafor, Diop, and Bell. That's nearly $22m.

I was going to include more from Portland's end but they don't have any pad contracts. They wouldn't want to just give away anything else they have on their roster. We would probably have to take on Diop and we could send one more smaller contract out to Portland, like Max. They'd certainly rather have Max's 3yr/$15m than Diop's 4yr/$24mil.

We need to get some earmuffs for Gutz

We need to get some earmuffs for Gutz
and a case of thicker skin for Glin.

My bad Z - I missed Diop in the deal when adding Charlotte's outgoing $$$

And in Gutz' defense we have a forum for trades.

Why not start a "Rip Trades" thread and a "Prince Trades" thread and keep the thousand possible deals in them?

it was a joke, i dont give a fuck about where this thread lies. its the off season and the topics are mostly garbage anyways. Stay thirsty and relax. :)

Not a bad idea, but discussing trades, in general, is part of the game and doesn't need to be restricted to the subforum, IMO. Specific fantasy/pretend ideas? Yeah.

Gutz doesn't ever want to hear about any of our guys possibly getting dealt, thus, the earmuffs.

glin pegs everyone.

Josh (Hsinchu, Taiwan): What do you think the chances are that Rip or Tayshaun will get traded this summer? If Prince gets sent, could Rip start at small forward? What would limit him from doing well there?

Langlois: Unlikely. The best chance for one of them to be traded came when the Pistons still had cap space and greater flexibility to facilitate three-team trades. I don’t see many fits out there any more with all the movement that’s taken place as teams have addressed their needs. As far as Rip playing small forward permanently, I don’t see it. I’m all for giving him 10 or 12 minutes a game there – and I think it’s absolutely necessary if the Pistons are going to get their money’s worth out of Ben Gordon – and John Kuester told me in Las Vegas that the Pistons will play small with Hamilton and Prince bumping up one position at times. But you’ve got to pick your spots for him and avoid putting him in situations where he’s giving away 40 or 50 pounds consistently or Hamilton will take a physical pounding. And at 31, that’s inviting physical breakdowns. I doubt it’s coincidence in Hamilton’s mind, at least, that the groin injury that dogged him throughout the second half of the season came about two weeks after the switch to small ball last season.

the Pistons will play small with Hamilton and Prince bumping up one position at times
*sigh*

the groin injury that dogged him throughout the second half of the season came about two weeks after the switch to small ball
So let's try it again, right?

NEW COACH, NEW ATTITUDE

I would think the groin injury would be coincidental. He'd be running less with a slower man opposing him.

I could see his body wearing down later if you played small a lot.

The key is your offense dictating matchups. If you play small and the other team cannot defend it, they go small also. When your offense sucks (Curry) teams don't have to adjust to you.

He'd potentially be running less (though his game is running around screens so he'd probably still be running), but he'd get banged around quite a bit more on the defensive end, especially when teams were smart enough to post up their bigger SF.

Rob (Windsor, Ontario): Is Joe D trying to trade Rip and is he going to keep Tayshaun?

Langlois: There is no active campaign to trade either player, Rob. Joe D and John Kuester are planning to start the season with the players currently on the roster. That doesn’t mean something won’t come across Joe D’s desk in the next month or two that intrigues him, but I can assure you he’s not working the phones looking to move anyone on his roster.

If anyone would know...

(This is from yesterday morning, btw)

but I can assure you he’s not working the phones looking to move anyone on his roster
http://billdunlap.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/facepalm.jpg

Agree with Z - WTF?

Grant (Laguna Hills, Calif.): In a trade involving Rip Hamilton, what could we expect in return?

Langlois: Let’s start with this: There is absolutely zero indication that Joe Dumars is looking to trade Rip Hamilton. When he mapped out his summer, he obviously made signing Ben Gordon a priority in free agency. Many assumed that meant Rip Hamilton was going to be dangled as trade bait. But Dumars never viewed it that way. He sees room for both on the roster because he likes the firepower the team now has with Gordon and Hamilton both 20-point scorers and believes the minutes will sort themselves out with Hamilton getting time at small forward and Gordon some minutes at point guard, potentially. As for what the Pistons could expect if they were to make him available, that’s tough to say. He’s a gifted scorer and they’re always in demand. Given the economic reality of the NBA today, though, a contract that runs for four more years would scare off some suitors. Not all, however, as New Orleans took on the five years of Emeka Okafor’s deal last week in exchange for Tyson Chandler.



Freddie (Las Colinas, Texas): We seem set for 2009-10, but how certain are we to finish the season with both Tay and Rip still on the team?

Langlois: No way to project what might happen once the season starts, Freddie, but I’m not expecting either player to go anywhere at this point. If there was a likelihood that either would be traded, the time was the days leading up to and immediately after the draft.

I like how he doesn't justify that last statement at all.

He doesn't even answer the first question.

Its looking less likely that either will traded every day, imo from Sacramento. But I haven't been paying attention a whole lot either.

Edit...if we took this poll today it prolly wouldn't be 50/50 ish, imhofS.

Edit...if we took this poll today it prolly wouldn't be 50/50 ish, imhofS.

Maybe a "it's 50/50" option would have been a good idea.

We can probably forget all of the "Tay to the Clippers" scenarios with their acquisition of Rasual Butler.