Get ready folks...


Suns complete buyout of Wallace

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic

Ben Wallace was gone before he was here.

The Suns completed a contract buyout Monday for Wallace, whom they acquired for such financial motivation in the Shaquille O'Neal trade in June. The Suns negotiated a $10 million buyout for a contract that would have paid him $14 million this season.

The Suns could save $8 million as a result of the buyout, because next season's payroll projects to exceed a $69.9 million luxury-tax threshold, kicking in a dollar-for-dollar penalty for the excess.

The O'Neal deal with Cleveland ultimately could be worth $18 million to the Suns in payroll and tax savings if the other acquired player, Sasha Pavlovic, is waived. He has only $1.5 million guaranteed in a $4.95 million salary but could be an attractive trade chip.

Wallace, 34, was expected to accept a buyout after saying this off-season that he was considering retirement. Last season, he suffered injuries and appeared far less athletic than in 2006, when he was named the NBA Defensive Player of the Year.

The ability to buy out Wallace was tied into the Suns' free-agency pursuits of forward Grant Hill and big man Channing Frye. Hill will receive his two-year, $6.24 million contract today, also when Frye is introduced as the newest Suns player.

Ben gives up $4m in salary in his buyout and we have a nice tidy $4m in cap room available.

Coincidence?

IT'S MARKETING BABY!!

Unless he's interested in a 1 year deal, I'm not interested. Even then, there would be other options I would explore first.

I'd gladly take Ben back for a 1 year deal.

I think Mason's head might explode if this happens.

I'd gladly take Ben back for a 1 year deal.

out of all the remaining candidates, why is Ben Wallace not a good option?

He brings exactly what this team lacks. Not in the same abundance as he did before, but he still has those qualities.

I actually agree.

It would be nice to get him at the vet's minimum, though.

I think he's still a 10+ rpg and 2+block per game player if he gets his usual starters' minutes. I'd love to get him at a discount, but he warrents as much as any of the other options.

It would essentially be another Kwame (contract and everything). If we don't fill the whole another way, we need another Kwame.

never, ever compare Ben Wallace to Kwame Brown ever again.

Ben Wallace at age 72 with two broken legs would still be a better center than Kwame Brown is right now.

Never ever, Fool.

They don't play the same way at all. Kwame is your typical filler center. Good size, grabs rebounds and plays defense, but not at a high level. Gives you a few post moves, but not enough to feed him the ball down low.

Ben was an impact player when he was here. He's past that, but he would at least provide good defense.

Again, only interested if a 1 year deal.

Ben Wallace provides adequate defense on bigs. So does Kwame. Kwame does it with size and pretty good lateral movement, Ben does it with what's left of his athleticism and better intelligence for the game.

That fill the same role. The exact same role.

If on the team, they will get minutes based on who is doing a better job of it on that night.

you just used to word "intelligence" to describe Ben's game, and said Kwame does the exact same thing.

I really don't need to say anything further. the joke writes itself.

Ben's team defense is a thousand times better than kwame's. That's not an exaggeration. Kwame has yet to learn how to spell the word "help"....

Only I didn't say they do the "same thing" I said they fill the same role. Your jokes always write themselves because you are always the joke.

They do not fill the same role. They play the same position, and that's where the similarities end.

Yeah, because we'd be getting Ben to shore up or team defense rather than to help fill the giant fucking whole in our lineup that is our lack of a starting caliber center.

you do realize Ben does both....

So Ben won't be covering the low post threat and bodying up in the block?

He'll be freelancing through the paint next to the defensive giant that is CV?

again, he's always been able to do both. Why is this news?

V will be expected to defend his position. They have made that clear from the beginning. Ben won't be switched out on power forwards.

Not on a team without any post defense he won't. He'll be the only guy standing near the basket not thinking about his next shot.

Rasheed = Celtic.

....which I'm sure he's not used to....oh wait, that's always been his role.

Ben is perfectly capable of bodying up is man and then roaming over to help when his man isnt posting up.

Maybe you are counting on Max to free him up to run around attempting blocks. Or perhaps a return to the Tayshaun at PF fiasco?

....which I'm sure he's not used to....oh wait, that's always been his role.

Nope. Even on Cleveland he wasn't the only guy who played defense.

he doesn't have to be "free,' fool. It's not an either-or scenario.

If Ben's man is posting, he'll be defending the ball. If he sisn't, then he won't its' that simple.

and the idea that V does not care about defense is premature as shit. try letting him play with some quality defenders for once. God forbid he improves like rip did when he first got here.

Right, because the team defense is of high enough quality not to let the man he leaves have open basket after open basket.

What quality defenders will CV be playing with in Detroit?

Tayshaun Prince, possibly rip hamilton, and hopefully ben wallace.

Right, because the team defense is of high enough quality not to let the man he leaves have open basket after open basket.
That''s the risk he always took here. That hasn't changed.

Not the 04 version of any of those guys.

the current versions aren't bad either. They were made to look bad last year by a variety of circumstances.

That''s the risk he always took here. That hasn't changed.
It absolutely has because on both our former team and the Cavs they played defense and could rotate. We were all crying that this team Joe's made doesn't play defense and now it does so well that we can bringing in a high wire act to run around doubling guys?

I'm with Fool. When he came to Chicago and wasn't paired with a competent post defender, his weaknesses shone through.

We have elite defenders.

They just put the Piston jersey on and it sort of defends all by itself.

Chicago had one of the better defenses in the NBA when Ben was there...

Ben's been weighed down more by the expectation of that ridiculous contract he signed more than anything else.

Waiting for the McCosky "Give it up people, it's not going to happen" column in 3...2...1...

he'd write that if there was a rumor the sun was going to come up tomorrow.

And then we'll get the Rob Parker thinkpiece on why it NEEDS to happen.

And then we'll get the Rob Parker thinkpiece on why it NEEDS to happen.

"It's time to right the wrong...."

LOL That exact phrase will be in the article. Agreed.

I vote for "Bring Ben Home.'

A friend just texted me to say he was ridiculously excited that we might get Ben Wallace back. This does not excite me unless we trade Kwame and Ben is the backup to a true starting C.

Why Z? Kwame and Ben are so different!

Hey now, they'd be filling the same role, Fool. I thought that, of all people, you would understand this.

Neither one is a starting caliber center (but both find backups for a year).

I can live with both if it gets us Bosh or Amare.

I'd prefer to make a trade now for a long term center.

Neither are getting us Bosh or Amare because we won't have any cap space next year. To get one of those guys, we'd have to make some big moves. I'd like to see Ben come back for a season if he was going to retire after. Sentimental value, Ben retiring in a Pistons uniform. It would be a nice way to finish his career. He was rumored to be debating retirement this offseason.

Not huge moves. As I said if you deal Max, let Kwame walk, don't spend any money this year...you'd have 15+ mil.

And you still have the RIP trade options too that can create more space.

It's really not unrealistic to have that space. Whether they want to sign here or not I don't know.

according to ASB, the Pistons will contact Ben about coming back to Detroit.

I'm also with Fool on this one. I think Ben is done. He's not as quick as he used to be and he's not as versatile as he used to be. Remember how much complaining Ben did on the 2005-2006 team? Can you imagine how much complaining he's going to do this year when we have one of the younger teams in the league? Ben doesn't want to rebuild in perhaps his final season.

Ben is one of my all-time favorite Pistons, in spite the way he left. I have great memories of him as the face of the franchise. But let's keep him as a memory.

Ben isn't done. He isn't the DPOY anymore, but he's fully capable of 10 boards and 2 blocks per game in starter's minutes.

And Ben has long since been dealt a slice of humble pie. He's seen the other side of the fence and it isn't as green as he thought it would be. He was wrong to bitch before and I'd say he knows it now.

I think he just wants to go to a place where he can be ben again, and fans won't constantly get on him for not scoring points or making FTs.

Kstat - I love your basketball IQ, but I'm going to disagree with you on that wholeheartedly. And if he's out there long enough to grab 10 boards, the offense that he contributes won't be worth it. He was okay to have out there in the good ol' days when his defense was so dominant it didn't hurt us. And his legs were good enough that he was good for a couple alley-oops per game. But now his "average to good" defense isn't worth his "awful to titanic" offense.

I'd say the opposite is true- we have so many weapons at the 1-4 spots, that his lack of offense is going to hurt us less.

All this team is missing is a guy that can rebound and defend the basket a little. They don't necessarily need another offensive player.

I think you could pencil him in for 30 minutes a game, and he'd stabilize the defense enough for all the firepower to matter.

30 MPG? I'm only interested in him for 20 MPG a night.

I'd really only be interested if he plays 30.

Ben is a starter. He isn't suited for the bench.

Brace yourselves...McCocksy is actually saying it is POSSIBLE....

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090714/SPORTS0102/907140417/1361/Could-Ben-Wallace-return-to-Pistons-after-buyout-by-Suns


Could Ben Wallace return to Pistons after buyout by Suns?
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Auburn Hills -- Add another name -- a familiar name -- to the list of candidates to bolster the Pistons' thin frontcourt.

Former Piston Ben Wallace accepted a $10 million buyout from the Phoenix Suns on Tuesday. If he clears waivers, he will be an unrestricted free agent.

Wallace indicated at the end of last season that he would consider retirement because of his age (35) and lingering injuries. But, according to sources, Wallace is considering trying to play at least one more season and has reached out to the Pistons.

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He still owns a home in Oakland County.

The Pistons have $3.5 million still available under the salary cap. In taking the buyout, Wallace left $4 million still on the table in Phoenix. (The final year of his contract was worth $14 million.)

Most likely, the Pistons would offer Wallace the veteran's minimum ($1.3 million, which does not count against the cap), and still have the $3.5 million to spend on a younger big man.

Pistons president Joe Dumars, who is considering several options, would not comment on the possibility of bringing Wallace back.

Joe D/ hasn't commented on shit lately. He's usually pretty open about dropping names of potential targets.

IMO, he's trying to work a major trade.

I don't see how you're getting 15+ million for next year, Chris. If you deal Max for an expiring, that clears up $5 million. If you let Kwame walk, that clears up $4 million. Bynum will also be expiring at $800k. We have ~$3.6 million in cap space. That adds up to $13.4 million. Even if the cap doesn't decrease, we'll have Rip, Gordon, Villanueva, Prince and Stuckey all needing a raise, which adds up to around $4 million. That leaves us with $9.4 million to sign a starting C, a backup C, a backup PF, and a backup PG.

And we still haven't taken into account our rookie contracts and the raises that they'll bring next offseason. That will eat up a few more million.


As for Wallace, he played 56 games last year and started 53 with 23.5mpg. He put up 6.5 boards and 1.3 blocks, so if he could keep up that pace for 30mpg he'd be at 8.3 boards and 1.6 blocks. Not quite 10 and 2, K. Sorry. He also averaged under 3ppg, shot 44% which is pretty terrible for a guy in the post, and shot an abysmal 42% on his FTs. All of these numbers have been slowly decreasing since his first season with the Bulls.

Look at how he wore out as the season went on!

November
43%FG, 50%FT, 7.3REB, 1.6BPG, 2.9PPG on 24MPG

February
27%FG, 37%FT, 6.0REB, 0.7BPG, 1.7PPG on 23MPG

He could be decent off the bench in a defensive role, getting 20-25mpg at most. If you bring him in as your starter and try to give him 30mpg, he's going to wear out and you'll be left with nothing at C.

RIP+Tay+Stuckey = $23,798,760

+ Gordon + Charlie = $41 mil.

Add in the rookies from this year and Bynum and you're looking at 45-46 mil.

We don't know what the cap would be, but that is 13-14 mil probably in space. That's without moving RIP, which I'm sure we could do.

I'm also betting that some of the SF's would be let go or traded (they won't all stick here).

Rip + Tay + Stuckey is going to be more than $23million.

2010:
Rip - $12,650,000
Tay - $11,147,760
Stuckey - $2,767,126

That's $26,564,886.

Gordon ~11
Villanueva ~6.5

That puts us at ~$44mil. If we use your numbers for the rookies and Bynum, we're at $48-49 million. If the cap stays the same ($57.7mil), that gives us $8-9 million to play with. Again, we'd need that money for a backup PF, a starting C, and a backup C.

Many reports say the cap may go down again next year, which would give us even less.

I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to say we aren't going to have as much money as you're saying. Even if we went into next offseason with $12m, that's not going to get us a guy like Bosh. Our only shot would be if we moved Rip for an expiring contract this offseason and gave ourselves $20mil next year.


Edit - We can probably wait to find out exactly what Gordon and CVs contracts look like to do the math on this.

I crunched some of these numbers a while back. I think Ben G is making a little more than I thought at the time I crunched these. I'll recalculate tomorrow, accounting for the Afflalo trade and adjusted contract figures. Is the consensus that Charlie V is 5 years/$35 million and Ben G is 5 years/$58 million?

While the cap going down would certainly hurt us, it also lowers the figure for the max contract. The starting point for a max contract is 30% of the cap. I'm including the min expected range, max expected range, and the average of those two.



Salary Cap, Max Conract

50,400,000 / 15,120,000
52,000,000 / 15,600,000
53,600,000 / 16,080,000


Assuming that the 2nd round rookies sign the same contract Sharpe signed, and Daye (as 15 overall pick) signs the same contract as Stuckey, this is how we look the next two years as currently constructed. I did Charlie V at 5 years/$37,700,000 with maximum 8% annual raises. Starting him at $6,500,000. I did Ben at 5 years/$51,000,000 with maximum 8% annual raises. Starting him at $9,000,000.



2009-10 , 2010-11
Charlie V 6,500,000 / 7020000
Ben Gordon 9,000,000 / 9720000
Rip Hamilton $11,625,000 / $11,333,333
Prince $10,324,380 / $11,148,760
Kwame Brown $4,000,000
Oberto $1,800,000
Jason Maxiell $5,000,000 / $5,000,000
Stuckey $1,805,040 / $2,767,126
Arron Afflalo $1,086,240 / $1,959,577
Will Bynum $825,497
Walter Sharpe $736,420
Washington $442,114 / $736,420
Jonas Jerebko $442,114 / $736,420
Summers $442,114 / $736,420
Austin Daye $1,687,320 / $1,805,040

TOTAL $52,702,577 / $48,948,796





Cap Figure Cap Space
50,400,000 1,451,204
52,000,000 3,051,204
53,600,000 4,651,204

well, McCosky is saying that ben is reaching out to the Pistons, ASB is saying the Pistons will reach out to ben, and Vince ellis is saying the Pistons have no interest at all in Ben.

I love this town. 3 beat writers with 3 different stories. I swear they all hate each other. Every story contradicts the guy before.

Ben not interested in Pistons in 5..4..3..

Vince Ellis just changed his story from "Pistons not interested in Ben Wallace," to "Pistons not actively looking at Ben Wallace."

Every backpeddle starts with a single step...

he ain't even a quarter of the player he used to be. but what the hell- i guess bringing him at the veteran's minimum to at least fill a roster spot, if nothing else, couldn't hurt at this point.

he's worth about 10 minutes a night at most. but that would give us perhaps the worst shooting big men in the league. ah, what the hell- let's have fun with it!

i'll take 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. It's better than anyone else available.

count me in on taking wallace over the crap available out there.

Is the consensus that Charlie V is 5 years/$35 million and Ben G is 5 years/$58 million?
....
Salary Cap, Max Conract

50,400,000 / 15,120,000
52,000,000 / 15,600,000
53,600,000 / 16,080,000
....
I did Charlie V at 5 years/$37,700,000 with maximum 8% annual raises. Starting him at $6,500,000. I did Ben at 5 years/$51,000,000 with maximum 8% annual raises. Starting him at $9,000,000.
....
TOTAL $52,702,577 / $48,948,796

2 issues.
You have Rip listed at 11,333,333. His salary would be increasing, assuming its at the 8% raise that would make it $12,555,000
You said Gordon was estimated at 5yrs/$58m, but when you did his cap figure you used $51m. So he would be at $9.5m if it was $55m total and $10m if it was $58m total?

Also, I've heard more of Gordon at $55 (9.5 first season, 10.26 2nd) and Villanueva at $40 (~6.8 first season, 7.344 2nd)

Without Afflalo, that gives us $52,352,766 in payroll next offseason using 55 and 40.

i'll take 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. It's better than anyone else available.
I'll take him, but he's not giving us 10 and 2.

i disagree. hes still very capable if you start him at center.

Welcome rugbypike, great first post.

You said Gordon was estimated at 5yrs/$58m, but when you did his cap figure you used $51m. So he would be at $9.5m if it was $55m total and $10m if it was $58m total?


I crunched some of these numbers a while back. I think Ben G is making a little more than I thought at the time I crunched these. I'll recalculate tomorrow, accounting for the Afflalo trade and adjusted contract figures.

In other words, I was noting that the initial calculation was 5 years/51 million. I was trying to figure out if there was a consensus total for Gordon's contract. I've heard anything from 5 years/$50+ million to 5 years/$58 million.


You have Rip listed at 11,333,333. His salary would be increasing, assuming its at the 8% raise that would make it $12,555,000

Rip's extension kicks in next year. He doesn't necessarily get a raise from his 2009-10 cap figure. His extension was reportedly 3 years/$34 million. I don't think we know exactly how the contract is structured (raises, decreases, flat).

Welcome rugbypike, great first post.

Thanks

Ben Wallace: From 'Fear The Fro' to 'Fro For Free' in Five Years

We're talking about signing Ben Wallace?

To start/help at C?

WTF?

When the season began we knew that once our season was over we were gonna need big men. All season long everyone was saying "That's cool!" cause we had almost $18 million in cap space plus 4 draft picks and had guys that were valuable assets (Kwame/Amir = expiring and Rip/Tay) to dangle in trade talks.

Why on Earth does Ben Wallace even rate a mention?

Is it because Joe Dumars passed on Blair during the Draft?
Is it because Joe Dumars opted to give Ben Gordon more than $9 mil of our cap space?
Is it because Joe Dumars did not seriously consider dangling Rip and Tay in trade talks?

What a total fucking mess this off-season has become.

At least we got Powder - who will earn every cent of his salary next season as he tries to hold together a PF/C rotation with Kwame, Maxiell and Ben!

On the bright side at least Michael Curry got fired!

DuJuan Blair isn't a center.

What centers were even available in FA?

Gortat? Pachulia?

Reality...

You do realize its ok for them to sign a placeholder for a year and wait until next year(or god forbid, 2011), when there will be quality centers available?

Of course, each of these tangents comes at the expense of a player Joe has no even mentioned by name. All these guys are ASSUMPTIONS made by beat writers. Joe hasn't told anybody what he's doing, which begs the question, how the fuck do you think you know?

Welcome rugbypike, great first post.


I do wonder if this is a fluke or more former worldcrossing members are going to make their way over...I took a look around that place a while ago....there really isnt much room for what Rugby just posted. People seem more interested in attacking each other than talking hoops.

To Whom It May Concern,

My deepest apologies to you, fine sir.

I meant no disrespect to you, Joe Dumars or the Detroit Pistons organisation. Please relay my apologies to your boss...

Unless you are reading this from under his desk where his cock is planted firmly inside your mouth.

Who the fuck died and made you the defender of all things Joe?

Dude passed on a PF that can fucking play on Draft Day. Considering our stellar crop of bigs one might assume Joe would have been looking for a cheap big that could actually contribute...

Oh, hang on - he'd rather dump Afflalo for more cap space so we can sign a cheap big that can contribute.

Or maybe, just maybe we shouldn't have overpaid for Gordon?

Or maybe we should be ringing GM's in an effort to trade Prince and/or Rip?

I don't give a flying fuck what free agent C's were available on July 1st. With the amount of cap space we had you can trade for dudes.

But maybe I shouldn't be typing all this. I'm posting my thoughts regarding assumptions posted by some other dude and he got it from some website that really isn't as connected to Joe as Kstat is and Kstat said it's all pointless cause Joe hasn't mentioned anyone by name and when it's all said and done it's just speculation and maybe just maybe you should shut the fuck up!

Seriously?

You claim no one wants to talk hoops no more and they just wanna attack people and it's because you defend every fucking thing Joe has done.

Passed on Blair? Knees are shot - we got 3 gun small forwards.
Overpaid Gordon? Had to - he wouldn't have signed.
Didn't make a big trade? Why would he? We're in Phase 2 of rebuilding.
Didn't hire Tommy Boy? I liked them both, I swear.

Your opinion is not the only opinion that matters. Other people joined here to type their shit too. Your continued shilling of the Pistons is rather fucking pointless.

We are already Piston fans, otherwise we wouldn't be posting here. I seriously doubt anyone is gonna give up cheering for the team simply because in their opinion Joe fucks up a few moves.

And since I find your shilling to be pointless it's my duty as a fellow poster and fan to try and get you to stop. We all in this together and all that shit.

my problem, as always, is with people who bitch without having any real solutions of their own.

my secondary problem is with people who bitch when they don't even know if Joe's done making moves or not

I'm a devil's advocate first and foremost, but I also have patience. You might want to try it out sometime, it's rather fun.

ok, feel free to continue on your pointless rant.

In other words, I was noting that the initial calculation was 5 years/51 million. I was trying to figure out if there was a consensus total for Gordon's contract. I've heard anything from 5 years/$50+ million to 5 years/$58 million.



Rip's extension kicks in next year. He doesn't necessarily get a raise from his 2009-10 cap figure. His extension was reportedly 3 years/$34 million. I don't think we know exactly how the contract is structured (raises, decreases, flat).
That makes much more sense now. Thanks for clearing it up. The main number I've heard is $55mil for Gordon, with a few random sources saying 50+ and 58. Same with CV's $40mil being the main number I keep hearing with a few sources saying 35. When do the official numbers get released?

As for Rip, I completely forgot that his extension kicked in then. Good call.

i think Ben just wants to retire, didn't sound like he wants to play anymore, at all...

my problem, as always, is with people who bitch without having any real solutions of their own.

my secondary problem is with people who bitch when they don't even know if Joe's done making moves or not

I'm a devil's advocate first and foremost, but I also have patience. You might want to try it out sometime, it's rather fun.

ok, feel free to continue on your pointless rant.

Without having any real solutions of their own?

You have seen the brazilian off-season plans that I put up? If they were so unrelaistic why didn't people make it known at the time?

And you hate people bitching? I hate people shilling. Now that we both know what pisses the other person off maybe we can use that to our advantage in a game of "Thumb Wars"?

They're always fun. I must warn you, I have big thumbs.

You can be the devil's advocate, as long as I can still be me. Is that ok? Cool! If you wanna preach we might have some issues though. That's kinda my thing - or it used to be. We could share - but your attitude suggests yournot that kind of guy. And as the Devil's Advocate you should probably be aware the Knights In Satan's Service don't look kindly upon preachers.

Just looking out for you, bro. We're all in this together...

Until 2012 - then I go home and you're all done.

But hey, keep that to yourself.

Again no reply Kstat?

You're all up on me claiming I've flipped out and when I post something for you to really respond to you duck and run?

Are you hiding (like) in the John Que thread? Let's go see...

Okay, so the media consensus seems to be that the Pistons have roughly $3.5 million left in cap room. I tried to adjust the numbers to fit that consensus. I think I succeed by using these figures:

Ben Gordon $58 M/5 years
Charlie V $40 M/5 years

Also, Dave Dial points out in his blog that there is a minimum salary cap hold for any open roster spots below 12. Since the forum doesn't seem to like it when I paste cells, I'm going to paste in another post.


1 Charlie V $6,896,552
2 Ben Gordon $10,000,000
3 Rip Hamilton $11,625,000
4 Tayshaun Prince $10,324,380
5 Kwame Brown $4,000,000
6 Fabricio Oberto $1,900,000
7 Jason Maxiell $5,000,000
8 Rodney Stuckey $1,805,040
9 Will Bynum $825,497
10 Austin Daye $1,398,200 ($1,677,840)
11 Deron Washington $457,588
12 Jonas Jerebko $457,588
Dejaun Summers

TOTAL $54,689,845
Salary cap $57,700,000
Cap Space $3,010,155



I can't find an authority, but I believe that when you sign a free agent, the roster cap hold would simultaneously disappear.

So you take the $3 M cap space, add the $500 K roster hold, and we get to roughly $3.5 million of spending money.

More explanations:

Daye has two numbers. When a first round player is picked, he automatically counts for 100% of the rookie salary scale until he signs his contract or has a verbal contract agreement. Teams are allowed to sign rookies to 120% of the rookie salary scale, and that is always how it works out. Until Daye signs his contract, he'll count for the $1.3 million above. Once the contract is agreed to, he'll count for the $1.67 million in parenthesis.

The second round picks don't count against the cap until they sign, but I listed them anyway because there will be the aforementioned roster hold until they sign anyway. The numbers are the same, I left one rookie's salary blank because he hasn't signed yet, and he's above the 12 man roster threshold, so there is no minimum roster hold for that player.

That makes much more sense now. Thanks for clearing it up. The main number I've heard is $55mil for Gordon, with a few random sources saying 50+ and 58. Same with CV's $40mil being the main number I keep hearing with a few sources saying 35. When do the official numbers get released?

As for Rip, I completely forgot that his extension kicked in then. Good call.

Yeah, it's hard to get exact figures. Draft Express has a flat fee, but at $12,650,000 per year which is way off the reported 3 years/$34 million we've seen.

The recalculation I just did was CV $40 M, Ben G $58 M. Ben G at $55 M would save about another $500 K this year so that could very well be the correct figure. That still would put us around $500 K without the evaporating roster hold that I fabricated in my head ha.

LOL@Kstat accusing P of not having any solutions.

I'll be pissed if there is no trade for a starting caliber center. In terms of having faith that is going to happen, I'm probably 50-50 on thinking it will.

Welcome Rugby Pike. Do you wear jersey 11 or are you 11 years old?

Pleased to see you on board.

If you're a Pom - how about that time wasting bit in the first cricket test?

If you're a Kiwi - I feel sorry for you, bro.

If you're an Aussie - get off. This is my board. My board. Fuck you! Get Off!




Na man it's all good.

I made myself laugh though - so that was great. Almost like an orgasm.

But with all those numbers fucking with my skull I can't think of sexy bitches so can we at least make a cap thread or something?

Just keep the cap numbers in their own thread so they don't bother any regular numbers or letters anytime soon.

Nice work, rugbypike. I sure as hell hope that Gordon is at 9.5 this year and not 10. 500k doesn't seem like much toward the salary cap, but it can definitely be the difference between getting a trade done and not.

The difference between 9.5 and 10 mil could really make a difference?

Hell Yeah!

Or how about starting his fucking salary at $8 million and telling the 6'2", super young gunslinger to sign on the dotted line or go live in Jordan's shadow for the rest of your days, bitch!

Or, if you're really smart, cap savvy and completely tuned in to what's really going down you can give the dude the $9.5 or $10 mil and screw yourself out of a reasonable big man!

Your choice, Joe.

What?

You already chose?

But the game just started, Joe.

Say It Ain't So, Joe, Say It Ain't So.

Welcome Rugby Pike. Do you wear jersey 11 or are you 11 years old?

Pleased to see you on board.

If you're a Pom - how about that time wasting bit in the first cricket test?

If you're a Kiwi - I feel sorry for you, bro.

If you're an Aussie - get off. This is my board. My board. Fuck you! Get Off!




Na man it's all good.

I made myself laugh though - so that was great. Almost like an orgasm.

But with all those numbers fucking with my skull I can't think of sexy bitches so can we at least make a cap thread or something?

Just keep the cap numbers in their own thread so they don't bother any regular numbers or letters anytime soon.

I wore jersey #11 for basketball and when I first started playing rugby. I am the rare American rugby player. Once I figured out wtf I was doing I usually played anywhere 6 to 10. I am generally an undersized loose forward, oversized scrum-half, or an overly aggressive fly-half.

I wore jersey #11 for basketball and when I first started playing rugby. I am the rare American rugby player. Once I figured out wtf I was doing I usually played anywhere 6 to 10. I am generally an undersized loose forward, oversized scrum-half, or an overly aggressive fly-half.


Rugby needs to be popular in the US asap just so we can hear Al Michaels commenting on a player's strong fly-half.

Rugby needs to be popular in the US asap just so I can finally watch it on TV more than 3 times a year.

Rugby is a tough, tough game, boys.

I'm surprised to see a US rugby player posting on here.

Question Time: Who do you guys play against? Is there a local comp? Rec comp? How serious are you guys about the game.

And FWIW I am not a rugby fan. Too much stopping and starting

I'm in semi-retirement. I pick up a match here and there but I'm a law student so I don't have time to really commit to a club. I played for a RSL Club before grad school. Theoretically, this is a grouping of the best clubs in the US but there are some Division 1 Men's Clubs that can hang with any RSL club. Our RSL side was very serious and approached matches as if we were playing professionally. Our club also had a developmental (B-Side) and social side which was less serious. Sometimes the B-Side traveled with the Super League side but sometimes they just played lesser regional clubs.

poll

I don't want him back, but I'd take him if we were going into the season with what we have right now.

As I remember it, Ben was garbage in the playoffs for the Cavs. Maybe I remember it wrong. In any event, I salute what he did when he was here but I don't want that broken down diva back on the pistons bench.

he was coming back off a gruesomely broken leg...I'm pretty sure it restricted his activity a tad.

Ben also never really got to play his natural C position in Cleveland....he was stuck playing PF, normally against jumpshooters.

During the 53 games he started, he averaged about 7 rebounds, 1 block and 1 steal, in only 23 minutes per game, playing out of position.

As recently as 2 years ago, he was a 10+rebound and 2+ block player for Chicago, the last place he was given a chance to play center.

The idea that ben has completely lost his skills is way, way overblown. If you put him in the middle, he will continue to rebound and block shots.

Does Kuester want him here?

Kuester's been with him for the past couple years... might know something that we don't that's relevant.

I think we'll know that by gauging the interest the Pistons have in him.

Not necessarily.

If he sells tix, that may trump talent.

yes, because ben wallace, who everyone apparently thinks is washed up, is going to sell tickets....

Not to mention the media has been feeding the lemming fans the idea that ben wallace is a selfish traitor that took the money and ran, so the majority hate his guts now anyway.

Dude come on, you're a smart guy, this shouldn't be that hard.

He's one of the most popular Pistons ever.

You do remember the fro wigs and all that, right?

It's a perfect setup.

They may even start him just to get the crowd pumped up.

....do you remember every subsequent visit to the palace since he left?

This shouldn't be that hard.

Ben Wallace has become Benedict Arnold here.

I do wonder if this is a fluke or more former worldcrossing members are going to make their way over...I took a look around that place a while ago....there really isnt much room for what Rugby just posted. People seem more interested in attacking each other than talking hoops.

Hey KStat, somehow I missed this post. Yeah, it can get old over there sometimes. Not that I'm totally innocent as there is one person in particular that I can't help but mock. I still like a lot of the old WC posters but the tone can be overbearing at times.

I totally agree with you on Wallace btw. I think he still has a little something left in the tank, especially if we get him back with Arnie and limit his minutes to around 25 MPG to keep him fresh. For the vet's minimum, when Kwame is our only true center, I think it's a no-brainer. My only slight concern is that he brings back some of the "refuse to re-enter the game" attitude he may have left with, but I think the potential for positive influence far exceeds any potential negative influence. Again, the vet's minimum! If he's a cancer, we can release him and go from there.

Of course I was one of the people who wasn't mad at him for taking Chicago's bigger deal so maybe it's easier for me to welcome him back with open arms.

i thought chicago signing him was the height of stupidity, but i never thought ben was a bad person for taking his big payday.

At this point, I'd be Shocked if it didn't happen.

The stage would be set for his jersey retirement in a couple of years as well.

I think he'd be welcomed back without question. People are desperate for any connection to those old memories right now.

I was pretty pissed @ Ben when he left, but as time went on I got over it. I knew Chicago was dumb as shit for signing him for that much $, but in my perfect Piston world Ben would have stayed here for a reasonable contract.

Ben Wallace IMO WAS the Pistons and when he left, I figured the team would not be the same and they weren't. With all that said, I would like Ben back. He could still help in a limited role and the fans can get their love for Big Ben back, then retire his jersey. I dunno, maybe I'm alone on this, but I think Ben's #3 (Stuck & NBA willing) should be hanging with the other Piston greats.

I think he'd be welcomed back without question. People are desperate for any connection to those old memories right now.

I don't think that's true. People are desperate to get another taste of championship contention. Nostalgia... not so much. Which is why there's no shortage of enthusiasm for any team-improving trade involving Rip and/or Prince. Should the opportunity cost of obtaining Ben rise above the absolute minimum salary and a roster spot, what support there is for that would evaporate pretty quickly too.

I don't think that's true. People are desperate to get another taste of championship contention. Nostalgia... not so much. Which is why there's no shortage of enthusiasm for any team-improving trade involving Rip and/or Prince. Should the opportunity cost of obtaining Ben rise above the absolute minimum salary and a roster spot, what support there is for that would evaporate pretty quickly too.

That's very true of folks like us, but that's not who they'd be doing it to market to.

Anybody want to guess when this happens?

Leaked Monday, Tuesday presser?

Do the local hacks get the story first or national?

we are not winning anything this year anyways. Why not welcome him back? I would definitely be excited.

I would much rather have Rasho. He could potentially start. I don't think that's an option with Ben anymore.

I'll get excited if he produces. I still think he's most likely spurs.

The Spurs got Theo Ratliff already, too.

Big Ben for the minimum may be the best value deal Joe D did all summer long ;)

plus he can fill some of the veterans presense/leadership role, that we've lost with Chauncey, Sheed, Dice gone...even if he's just sitting on the bench the most of the time, good locker room presense, and can help the young kids to bring it every night...he can retires as a Piston, good way to end his career

You know the (half empty) Palace would be (mildly impressed) to see an opposing player waltz down the lane for a layup, only to get blocked by Ben and hear the gong.

Exactly what the Pistons are thinking, I bet.

If we're not going to contend, might as well be entertained.

Really don't care to read all that....

but I voted yes. Just kind of a 'fuck it, why not?' vote. I could bust out my inflatable Ben and old jersey again.

The Spurs got Theo Ratliff already, too.

Of all people I expected you to correctly read that as Ben is done.

Oops

Ben Dover?