With Portland losing out on Hedo, what do people think about a Tayshaun for Travis Outlaw and Joel Pryzbilla deal?

Outlaw is under contract for $4M this year and is an expiring. Pryzbilla will make $6.8M this year and has a player option he'll assuredly pick up next year for $7.4M. He'd be overpaid at those numbers, but he's at least a nice defensive presence down low, something we sorely lack. Outlaw is a nice young shooter (just 24) who can contribute in Tayshaun's place. We'd also have first chance to lock him up long-term if we liked what we saw this year. I think he's becoming a very good player and is a legitimate starter in the league.

Thoughts? Is this too much/not enough for Tayshaun? Hard to gauge player values in this economic climate.

Hmm, I'd at least really consider it.

yep, I'd hit it.

And I'd still do Rip for Boozer, too.

Stuckey/Bynum/Vet's min FA
Gordon/Afflalo/Washington
Outlaw/Summers/Jerebko
Boozer/Charlie/Max
Pryzbilla/Kwame

NBDL: Daye

We might average about 6 assists a night with that squad, but it might be fun to watch.

I'd do it. Przybilla is a big body and doesn't play like a bitch, and I'm keen on Outlaw as a guy who, along with Gordon, we can go to in the clutch.

I saw Portland is going after Lee now. That would make them very likely to move one of their bigs (wish it was Aldridge).

I wish it was Aldridge too, but I suppose Przybilla would be an ok enough consolation prize since he would provide what we need.

He'd be solid next to Boozer (assuming the RIP deal happened).

I like these moves. RIP for Boozer then this deal. Both make sense on a lot of levels... Make them happen Joe!

Both of these trades would be great. I could definitely live with the Prz and Kwame at C. Would CV get enough minutes? Eh who cares, all that stuff would sort itself out. I just like that team because of the depth, and we keep Kwame's expiring to go with Boozer in case one of the superstars wants to come at the deadline. Get it done Joe. I love this roster at least for now.

CV would backup PF and SF. We don't have great options at backup SF anyway (all rookies or AA playing there). AA will have enough minutes backing up SG anyway with Gordon starting and he can play some at SF depending on the matchups. Boozer can play some center too if they are undersized.

It would be nice to limit guys to 30-33 minutes a night anyway. Too many players have been worn down with a bad bench.

Max would need to go though. No minutes for him. I'd trade him for any expiring deal.

I don't know how happy V would be, signing here thinking he's a starter then being moved to a bench role immediately. If you do this deal, you use Pryzbilla as your backup C and you use Rip to get a C. You can include Kwame's expiring in the Rip deal now that you've got some depth up front.

Tay for Outlaw/Przybilla
then
Rip and Kwame for Okafor and a bad contract like Diop, Nazr, or Radmanovic.
or just Rip for Okafor

We'd probably need to include a pick if it was Rip for Okafor. If it was the first trade, we'd likely be getting Diop because Nazr is expiring and Radman has a PO, while Diop is on the books for another 3-4 years.

If you don't think its enough for Tay, you just use picks to even things out.

Roll with:
Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/AA
Outlaw/Summers/Daye
Villanueva/Max
Okafor/Przybilla/Diop

That's a solid young lineup. Our oldest guy is Przybilla at 29. All of our starters are still very young. Outlaw's been in the league for 6-7 years but he's only 24. If he puts up a good season, we can resign him next year. He's another Joe-type. On the verge, could finally put it all together. He MAY be worth giving an extension after the trade if Joe feels that he'll have a big year (saving us from a big payout next summer).

I like this trade quite a bit.

Roll with:
Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/AA
Outlaw/Summers/Daye
Villanueva/Max
Okafor/Przybilla/Diop


I'm a fan of that lineup. Exciting and young. Championship caliber? Probably not, but it depends on the coach.

I think it would take more to get Okafor, unfortunately. We'd probably have to take on one of their bad contracts as well - like Diop.

Getting Okafor would make me a diehard Pistons fan again, though.

Getting Okafor would make me less of a faggot again, though.

Zoinks!

Ray

Who's the one that voted "I love gay men"? Hmm?

I knew you would bring that up.

lol

Sorry brother. I just won't stand for any bullying of MoTown.

Words can hurt pretty badly, D-Ray.

Hey, you were insinuating that you were hardly a Pistons fan anymore. With the username "MoTown," that's hardly fair. :emo:

Fair enough. I was more insinuating that I have been very irritated with the direction of the Pistons in the last 2 or 3 years. And it's more of a hatred of today's NBA. I love tough, physical basketball. Ever since the NBA changed the rules and Ben left, the Pistons have been becoming bigger pussies every year. Okafor is the type of player that fits as a "True Piston."

tl;dr

LOL - I'll try and keep my responses to a 6 word maximum.

He seems big enough to play center, but some people have mentioned he's on 6'9". With Shaq winding down, Yao breaking down, Oden being an offensive liability, there aren't really any good young centers besides Bynum and Howard (and Bynum can't stay healthy either).

Most sites have him listed at 6'10". Also I found this in his draft profile:


Height used to be an issue. But when you factor in his wingspan (7-foot-4) and his standing reach (9-foot-3 1/2) it's silly. He's as big as most centers in the league.
So I'd be content with him there.

Kwame/Max for Chandler
RIP for Boozer
Tay for Outlaw/Pryz

PG Stuckey/Bynum/Ibrahim
SG Gordon/Afflalo/Washington
SF Outlaw/Villanueva/Summers/Daye
PF Boozer/Villanueva/Daye
C Chandler/Pryz

Or you might think of starting Charlie at SF.

I also sort of like the Okafor idea.

Probably can't get Okafor and Boozer though (it would take RIP to get Okafor).

I know, I was saying as an alternative (one that would mean no Chandler also).

I'd much rather have Okafor than Boozer. I'd actually prefer to avoid Boozer altogether, unless he somehow stops missing 1/4 of the season due to injuries each year.

I wouldn't want Okafor/Pryz/Chandler though. I'd explore some other big that has some offensive game (like Kaman).

What would it take to get Okafor?

One thing we haven't really taken into consideration. Why does Portland want Prince?

I'd much rather have Okafor than Boozer. I'd actually prefer to avoid Boozer altogether, unless he somehow stops missing 1/4 of the season due to injuries each year.

I agree, but Boozer is an expiring so there isn't much risk at all really.

One thing we haven't really taken into consideration. Why does Portland want Prince?

They wanted Hedo, so clearly they aren't satisfied at SF. Who knows whether they want Tay. Also, they are looking at Lee, so I'm sure they will move a big if that happens (otherwise they don't consider this deal).

They wanted Hedo to make plays for others, the same reason that I wish we would have went after him.

With the Chandler idea as opposed to the Okafor idea, that gives cap flexibility the next two offseasons (I'm not sure what Okafor's deal is). Boozer comes off the books 2010, and if you can't get Bosh and don't want Boozer, you still have Charlie. Pryz and Chandler come off the books the following season, although that may create a problem at C if you don't want to retain either... though the cap space would also allow for a replacement via trade.

Glenn's right though, the Blazers probably don't even want Tay.

They may have been looking at Hedo for specific reasons. Hedo and Tay don't exactly have the same skillset. I suppose I was looking at Roy as their starting 3 instead of a 2.

If they trade Przybilla, who starts at C for them? Do they think Oden finally has what it takes, or is it time to see if they can rely on him? Do they have somethone else that can fill in if/when Odom goes down or fouls out? The only other C they have is Frye and Oden averaged over 8.7 fouls per 48 minutes and only played 61 games last year.


To think, they could have drafted Durant and been rolling out
Blake
Roy
Durant
Aldridge
Przybilla

That would have been disgusting. No doubt they'd have been able to improve at PG or C by signing someone cheaper than market price to play with that lineup. Let them take their lumps for a few years while they develop, then grab a vet PG or vet C to fill things out. Too bad, Portland fans.

What did the Bulls trade Aldridge for?

What did the Bulls trade Aldridge for?
Zack Miner? Wait...

Ray if you go for Okafor, you're not looking for flexibility. You're looking at Okafor and Villanueva as your starting frontcourt of the future if you make that deal and you hope that they compliment each other as well on the court as it seems on paper.

Offense:
V is the guy a jumpshooter that can stretch the D but can play downlow on occasion.
Okafor is all post-game on offense so we'd have always have someone down low, which we've all been screaming for these last few years. He won't pull double-teams but he's still young and developing his game. He's good enough that teams can't forget about him like they did to Ben, but he doesn't command a lot of touches.

Defense:
V has the size, athleticism, and coordination but he's yet to play up to his ability. He'll hopefully provide decent D and could turn into something solid if he starts living up to his potential. He needs to have a solid help defender next to him for sure.
Okafor is a great help defender. Defense is his game and he does it well. He's exactly the type of guy you'd want next to Villanueva. He's no Hakeem, but he's as good as we can hope for.


Back to the trade....

If we made the Outlaw/Przybilla trade, Joel would be a great backup to have with V as well. He tends to foul a bit too much, but he's not going to be floating around on offense, he's not going to command the ball and he's going to protect the basket on defense. He's not what I'd want starting for us in the slightest but he'd be an upgrade over Kwame IMO.

I suppose if Joe was looking to have a few offseasons for a rebuild, Przybilla would be a good stopgap at center. We already have Stuckey, Gordon, and Villanueva needing shots. He'd be a defensive-minded center that could cover for Villanueva a bit on the defensive end and he wouldn't complain when he didn't get (m)any shots.

tl;dr

But great post in any case.

They may have been looking at Hedo for specific reasons. Hedo and Tay don't exactly have the same skillset. I suppose I was looking at Roy as their starting 3 instead of a 2.

If they trade Przybilla, who starts at C for them? Do they think Oden finally has what it takes, or is it time to see if they can rely on him? Do they have somethone else that can fill in if/when Odom goes down or fouls out? The only other C they have is Frye and Oden averaged over 8.7 fouls per 48 minutes and only played 61 games last year.


To think, they could have drafted Durant and been rolling out
Blake
Roy
Durant
Aldridge
Przybilla

That would have been disgusting. No doubt they'd have been able to improve at PG or C by signing someone cheaper than market price to play with that lineup. Let them take their lumps for a few years while they develop, then grab a vet PG or vet C to fill things out. Too bad, Portland fans.

What did the Bulls trade Aldridge for?

Frye was let go (they did not give him a QA). They would only consider the deal if they got Lee first. They are a little weak at PG, so maybe they thought Hedo would help take some pressure off that area (which Tay would not so much).

Ray if you go for Okafor, you're not looking for flexibility. You're looking at Okafor and Villanueva as your starting frontcourt of the future if you make that deal and you hope that they compliment each other as well on the court as it seems on paper.


Correct. You either go for Boozer and save space for next year planning on getting Bosh or Amare, or you build your front court now.

If we did a Okafor deal we'd still need a long term backup center.

If only "long term backup center" was :our: biggest need right now.

If they don't want to trade Outlaw, what about Webster and Przybilla? Obviously it's contingent on Webster's recovery from the foot injury, but I was reading up on him a bit and he seems intriguing.

Right before the 2008 season from NBA.com:

Update: Webster has sculpted his body and worked on his ball handling this offseason to better fit the role small forward, the Blazers' official site reports.
Analysis: Webster has reported to Portland with a much leaner body and an improved ability to put the ball on the floor. He's still automatic from downtown and could turn into a much better scorer if his dribbling skills truly are improved. The Blazers have recently had a rash of injuries in their front court (Channing Frye, Raef LaFrentz), resulting in Travis Outlaw being forced to play more at the four. With a lack of depth at small forward, Webster and his newfound skills should be able to seize the opportunity.
Joe wants 3pt shooting and youth. He's a 22 year old 3pt shooter (over 50% of his attempts were beyond the arc in 07-08). He isn't the best ball handler, but we wouldn't be asking him to have the ball in his hands with Gordon and Stuckey on the floor. Stuckey and Gordon driving the lane will make the D collapse and give him open looks.

He was supposed to get a real shot last year but had that injury that limited him. His ballhandling was a big weakspot for him, so if he worked on that, he could definitely be ready to take the next step to a consistent starting role. He could also backup the 2 if needed. Outlaw is a 3/4 just like all 3 SFs we just drafted.

I'd like to think we'd get more from a Tay trade than a backup/stopgap C and a SF with potential that missed last season with an injury, but we don't really know Tay's market value.


Plus, Webster is 6'7"ish with a 6'11" wingspan. We know Joe loves his length.


Edit: Apologies for all of the long posts. Should I start highlighting the main points, Glenn?

I'm just fucking around, don't change a thing you big lug.

At least you provide your thought process, where you're going with the idea and what you think the result would be.

The more info the better IMO.

And I'd be inclined to accept the Webster/Pryzbilla deal for Tay if they didn;t wanna part with Outlaw.

We need that big man and as long as we don't get royally raped in a deal I'd have to approve.

We simply can't go into the season with Kwame and Max as our bigs behind Powder. I don't want July to end with those 3 as our bigs - I'll go crazy.

No way we go into the season with those 3. No way we go into the season with those 3 and Bass either, since we're supposedly talking with his agent. In the very least, we will get a starting C and have Max and Kwame as our backups this year, which wouldn't be terrible. Not ideal, but acceptable.

I keep thinking that there is something to be done with the Blazers.

With Batum and Outlaw out for an extended period of time, I keep reading that the Blazers need bodies. They even tried playing Brandon Roy at SF for a while and starting Blake & Andre Miller together, but they have since switched Miller back to the bench and moved Roy back. I also get the impression that Miller isn't all that happy there. There are also rumors that they just signed him to acquire him as a trade asset, to utilize their available cap space.

Now, doing something with them would certainly be contingent on Tay or Rip coming back healthy, but I'm stuck on this feeling that there is some compatibility here. They have what we need, a "true" PG and a spare center in Joel Pryz. And maybe we have what they need in Tay or Rip and maybe even Kwame's expiring deal. They are fringe contenders, so maybe they feel that adding some players of this magnitude puts them over the top?

The problem is, if they need bodies, we're only carrying the minimum. The salaries don't match up very well, either, so maybe a 3rd team has to get involved in some way?

Adding Miller/Pryz for Rip would clear up some roles for us, especially if Tay is going to be gone a while.

Miller
Gordon
Stuckey
CV
Pryz

That would allow Bynum to back up both guard positions, and would cut back on Big Ben's minutes. I'm intrigued by the thought of trying Stuckey as an off the ball slasher at the 3. It would probably cut way down on the number of shots he is having blocked, and hopefully the number of bad jumpers that he is taking. Letting someone else worry about running the offense might be exactly what he needs. It might be the only shot we have of making him more useful. Miller could be the leader that we are looking for, and he's got a reasonable contract for a starting caliber, playmaking PG. He'd help a lot for 2-3 years until we find a successor, IMO.

More on what's going on in Portland:


Roy: Miller controversy not my fault - For a night, at least, order was restored within the Trail Blazers.... http://bit.ly/8TNs1F

I'd take that trade Glan posted 2 posts above

Would they part with Przybilla, though?

Couldn't we deal Stuckey and Kwame for Miller and their 2010 pick?

They'd have Stuckey come off the bench behind Blake/Roy and because he's a different kind of player to Miller that could work for them. Stuckey could be the change of pace guard for them.

We'd become:

Miller/Bynum/Atkins
Rip/Gordon
Prince/Daye/Summers
Nova/Jerebko
Ben/Maxiell/Wilcox

and have 2 first rounders for the 2010 Draft

Or we could do Prince for Miller and Outlaw. I think that works too. Prince would give them that perimeter defender I think they really want for the playoffs.

That could work IF Outlaw is done for the season and Prince is gonna be healthy come playoff time.