Chad Ford10:17 AM

Please hold for a second guys ... some breaking news I have to handle ... may be a few minutes

Chad Ford10:19 AM

Pistons have fired Michael Curry ...


http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/27200

oh happy day!!

firsties !!!!

Great find JA


Chad Ford

10:19 AM


Pistons have fired Michael Curry ...

Aaron (Richmond, VA)

10:20 AM


Wow. About the Pistons firing Curry. Wow. Who do you think they should target as a coach and as free agents with their available cash?
Chad Ford

10:22 AM


I think Curry had a tough time making the transition to player and confidant to head coach. I especially think he had a difficult relationship with Richard Hamilton after benching Hamilton in favor of Allen Iverson.I can tell you the Pistons are going to go with someone with more head coaching experience ... but I don't know who it will be.

Jason (OKC)

10:22 AM


Is Bill Laimbeer the natural fit for the Pistons now?
Chad Ford

10:23 AM


He could be ... but it sounded like they wanted someone with more NBA head coaching experience. I'm not sure if the WNBA counts.

Mike (Detroit)

10:21 AM


For all the good work Dumars did in putting the Pistons team together, he sure has crumbled it (starting with the infamous Darko pick). Where do they go from here? Overhaul entire team?
Chad Ford

10:25 AM


I'm not sure crumbled is the right word. Teams don't last forever and they had a fantastic run ... longer than most teams have had. But they are clearly rebuilding now ... and apparently the Pistons felt like Curry wasn't a great fit.

BEST. DAY. EVER.

Why the hell did they wait until now? Does it have to do with Rip?

The Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) have fired Michael Curry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=176) as coach, the team announced Tuesday.
"This was a difficult decision to make," Pistons president Joe Dumars said in a statement. "I want to thank Michael for his hard work and dedication to the organization. However, at this time, I have decided to make a change."
Curry was named coach on June 10, 2008 and was 39-43 this past season.
The Pistons were swept by the Cleveland Cavaliers in four games.

Aaron (Richmond, VA)10:20 AM

Wow. About the Pistons firing Curry. Wow. Who do you think they should target as a coach and as free agents with their available cash?

Chad Ford10:22 AM

I think Curry had a tough time making the transition to player and confidant to head coach. I especially think he had a difficult relationship with Richard Hamilton after benching Hamilton in favor of Allen Iverson.I can tell you the Pistons are going to go with someone with more head coaching experience ... but I don't know who it will be.

Jason (OKC)10:22 AM

Is Bill Laimbeer the natural fit for the Pistons now?

Chad Ford10:23 AM

He could be ... but it sounded like they wanted someone with more NBA head coaching experience. I'm not sure if the WNBA counts.

Mike (Detroit)10:21 AM

For all the good work Dumars did in putting the Pistons team together, he sure has crumbled it (starting with the infamous Darko pick). Where do they go from here? Overhaul entire team?

steve (battle creek , mi)

chad, rumors of pistons adding charlie v and ben gordon. is the "big" moves by joe d? or are we waiting for trades to add the franchise guy to bring it all together? ben and charlie are good complimentary pieces, but championship material, dont know.

Chad Ford
I think Ben Gordon is their top target. But they'll have competition from the Bulls and Thunder. I think Charlie V is another target ... but the Cavs and Mavs will make a run at him too. Last thing the Pistons want to do is overpay Charlie V ...

Casey (Michigan)
I am a pistons fan and I am happy about this, but who are they going to get?

Chad Ford
I think they'll make a run at Doug Collins, Avery Johnson and John Kuester as the darkhorse
----

you know Joe D is a good GM because he corrects his mistakes pretty quick, MC just didnt turn out to be a good coach...i want JvG, i like Avery...but the other 2 guys...uurghh

BEST. DAY. EVER.

Why the hell did they wait until now? Does it have to do with Rip?

Probably no reason to do it until you know what his replacement might be. That way you don't have to deal with any distractions during the draft, etc.

LAIMBEER

Aaron (Richmond, VA)10:20 AM



you know Joe D is a good GM because he corrects his mistakes pretty quick, MC just didnt turn out to be a good coach...i want JvG

Co-signed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4297296


The Detroit Pistons have fired Michael Curry as coach, the team announced Tuesday.

"This was a difficult decision to make," Pistons president Joe Dumars said in a statement. "I want to thank Michael for his hard work and dedication to the organization. However, at this time, I have decided to make a change."

Actually, I really hope it's JVG

Izzo

can't believe I beat Glan to that one

JVG and Avery have to be in the mix with Lambs.

I have been on the JVG train all summer (nobody else was).

I have been on the JVG train all summer (nobody else was).

<------------

(me, not Walter)

MO CHEEKS!@!!!

Larry Brown

We've kept your seat warm for this day.


:(

I have been on the JVG train all summer (nobody else was).

Don't make me check the archives.

Holy Shit!!

And by the way, whats a guy gotta do to be the first to break a story on here. Sheesh you guys are fast.

Don't make me check the archives.

do it. I'm pretty sure at least %90 of the people on here ripped me for suggesting him.

Izzo


OR THIS

Bring back the glory days of LB

do it. I'm pretty sure at least %90 of the people on here ripped me for suggesting him.

"nobody" is not the same as 90%

"nobody" is not the same as 90%

well, I don't even remember %10 support. I'm just saying I'm sure %90 were against it.

I don't remember him even being a topic of conversation here.

Laimbeer.

I'm mentioning the name only so Gl'enn posts the picture. I don't actually want Laimbeer to be the head coach... but on second thought, everything adds up if he was to become coach.

well, I don't even remember %10 support. I'm just saying I'm sure %90 were against it.

In order to settle this, you know what we have to do right?

More from the Chat:


Casey (Michigan)

10:23 AM


I am a pistons fan and I am happy about this, but who are they going to get?
Chad Ford

10:30 AM


I think they'll make a run at Doug Collins, Avery Johnson and John Kuester as the darkhorse

Evan (Boston)

10:25 AM


Speaking of the Pistons, where do you see Rasheed Wallace ending up? I'm hearing sheed could be wearing celtics green..
Chad Ford

10:30 AM


That's the rumor ... Magic, Spurs and Cavs have also been rumored there. And don't totally count out the Bobcats. Sheed and Larry Brown have a good relationship.

Ryan (Los Angeles)

10:31 AM


Which Clipper big man gets moved this off-season to make room for Griffin........Kaman, Camby or Randolph? Which teams might be interested?
Chad Ford

10:32 AM


They had a draft day deal with Memphis that would've sent Zach for Darko's expiring contract and owner Donald Sterling turned it down. No way they get a better offer than that. Donald Sterling strikes again!!!!

Paul Millsap (SLC)

10:01 AM


Settle this bet I have with my agent, The Jazz are willing to match over/under $10M for me? I say under...
Chad Ford

10:34 AM


If Boozer returns, and it looks like he will, they'll have to go over the luxury tax to re-sign Millsap. But that's within reason. If he gets a $7-8 million a year offer, the Jazz will match. Any more and they may not be able to afford it. Millsap is good, but not that good.

James (Brooklyn, NY)

10:01 AM


Do you think Boozer opts out? How does his decision sway Detroit's free agent plans?
Chad Ford

10:36 AM


I think Boozer will opt in to the last year of his contract with Utah. For a while he said he wanted to be a free agent, but he can't find a team willing to pay what he wants. Pistons were the most obvious fit, but they aren't going to give him 13 to 15 million he wants. So he's got to go back to Utah, stay healthy and try again next summer when teams have a lot more cash. I think the Pistons have been expecting this for weeks which is why I've been writing he's not their top priority.

Dixon D (Salina, UT)

10:36 AM


If Boozer stays do the Jazz trade him?
Chad Ford

10:37 AM


They can try to trade him, but what team will want him knowing he's just going to be a free agent next summer? And remember the Jazz will be over the tax for a year. So they'll need to clear Boozer's salary off the books next summer ... I think this is Boozer's last year as a member of the Jazz.

derek (dallas)

10:37 AM


do you really think jason kidd will leave us to sign with the knicks? If the man wants a ring, he really dosen't have a great chance here but he dosen't have a shot at all if he goes to the knicks
Chad Ford

10:38 AM


No, I think he' re-signs in Dallas. I think this is a way of generating interest and making sure the Mavs pay up.

Tom Rizzo (Jacksonville, Fl)

10:29 AM


What do you think the Knicks should handle balancing free agency with the contracts of David Lee and Nate Robinson?
Chad Ford

10:39 AM


It's tough because if they pay them too much, they won't have a lot of money next summer. The Knicks just drafted Jordan Hill and are still VERY high on Danilo Gallinari ... I think they'll probably work either a sign-and-trade to get back something they really need at another position or they'll let him go. I don't think Robinson will be back.

ludwig Hasbauer (Germany)

10:39 AM


Technincal question: can a team sign free agents for all the money under the cap, and afterwards sign their first round pick, e.g. the thunder or the kings?
Chad Ford

10:40 AM


Sort of. Each pick has a cap hold that eats into their cap room. They don't have to sign them ahead of time, but the league basically counts them toward the cap.

Dan (Williston, VT)

10:40 AM


Who are the top 3 free agents the Cavs are likely to target?
Chad Ford

10:41 AM


I think Varejao and Charlie V and Sheed will be the guys. Obviously they need more size. Lamar Odom too, if he'd play for the midlevel.

Who wants to go out for a virtual beer?

Not enough. Let's go do some virtual needle drugs to celebrate.

DOUG???

Out for a run and back to the best news ever.

It's gonna be a good day.

I give Joe D a lot of credit for this, btw.

This was his handpicked guy and he just used piano wire on his throat, Godfather-style.

Was Curry ever the hand picked coach? Or did Joe envision making a drastic change (like Billups for AI) and just needed a seat warmer?

I'm wondering how much of a choice he really had.

As I posted elsewhere recently, I have to believe that every big time FA and agent laughs their ass off at the notion of signing up with Curry as a coach.

On May 12, 2009, Van Gundy expressed his desire to eventually return to coaching on ESPN writer Bill Simmons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Simmons)' podcast, stating he would even consider being an assistant coach.

Was Curry ever the hand picked coach? Or did Joe envision making a drastic change (like Billups for AI) and just needed a seat warmer?

I think he was handpicked as soon as he knew that Flipper wasn't getting it done.

He forced Curry onto Flip's staff, that was pretty telling.

I feel better about free agency now.

Laimbeer.



http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9015/screamr.png

YES!

Yahoo! Wojnarowski says Doug Collins is the fav. I would be fine with JVG or him with Laimbeer as an assistant. Much props to Joe D. Great start to this offseason.

The search, if there even is one, for the next coach should be interesting to follow. The next month will have days that crawl by painfully slow as we wait to see how this team will shape up next season.

Troy (Toronto)

10:53 AM


What are the changes (%) that Bosh ends up signing a long term deal in Toronto after his contract expires?
Chad Ford

10:54 AM


25%

Mully (Oaktwon)

10:53 AM


Any word on the GS Suns Amare deal?
Chad Ford

10:54 AM


Sounds like it's dead right now because GS won't include draft rights to Stephen Curry. Personally, I think the Pistons should make a run ...

I wonder if this means Rip is staying, maybe.

Collins coached Rip in Washington, didn't he?

Hmmm.

I remember when Collins bleached his hair and Rip called him "Eminem Collins" on TNT.

From the DetNews:

Laimbeer was asked if he had been contacted by the Pistons about the head coaching position.
"I've been out pursuing different things," he said.
As for his reaction to Curry's firing, Laimbeer said, "I don't have any feelings about it."
Laimbeer was asked if he wanted to be head coach of the Pistons.
"I'm not going to comment on that," he said. "I'm in the store right now with my wife."

I'M SO EXCITED! I'M SO SCARED!

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x147/dspiewak/JesseSpano.jpg

JESUS is doing this to make up for taking Billy Mays away from us

We've had a great offseason thus far!

This probably was spurred by some trade. Maybe Bosh or Amare refused to sign an extension here with Coach Curry.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this means something big is in the works.

This probably was spurred by some trade. Maybe Bosh or Amare refused to sign an extension here with Coach Curry.
I don't know about that... I just think if they were in the market for a serious player, they already know they can't have a first-year coach in charge.

Swami, you might be right, but unless something changed recently, like the opportunity for a big trade, our ability to be a big player for big name guys hasn't changed at all. To suddenly make this move at this seemingly random time indicates something is going on.

Laimbeer!!!!!!!!!!!!

One things for sure, he won't take shit from anybody!

I wonder if he'll shoulder-check Byron Scott, Nate McMillian (or any other coach who used to be a player back then)l instead of the cursory hand shake at the end of games.

Hours before the start of NBA free agency, Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) president Joe Dumars (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3689) made a splash of a different sort, firing coach Michael Curry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=176) on Tuesday after just one season amid reported concerns that keeping Curry could hamper Detroit's offseason business.

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com that the Pistons -- projected to have more spending money than any team in the league when the market opens for business at 12:01 a.m. ET Wednesday -- had been contemplating the move for weeks after Curry's rocky first season co-existing with Detroit's veterans.

The Pistons decided to go ahead with the change to help maintain their position as the team with the most free-agent ammunition this summer.
Sources said that two names high on Dumars' list as potential replacements are former Pistons coach Doug Collins, who served as a TNT analyst last season, and former Dallas Mavericks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) coach Avery Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=390), currently an ESPN analyst.

Former Pistons center Bill (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3759)Laimbeer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3759), who recently resigned as coach of the WNBA's Detroit Shock to pursue NBA coaching opportunities, is unlikely to be considered, sources said.

The Pistons went 39-43 under Curry in a difficult 2008-09 campaign that ended with a first-round playoff sweep against Cleveland. Curry gradually lost support from some of Detroit's veterans -- most notably popular shooting guard Rip Hamilton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=294) -- after he elected to move Hamilton to the bench to accommodate November trade acquisition Allen Iverson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=366).
Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com.

Izzo

Actually, not to extinguish any hope on this, but if it happens, then he is one cool motherfucker.

See, I was with Tommy yesterday at Egypt Valley, and he didn't give me any indication that anything was up. And I'm sure he would have if he was thinking about making the jump.

But you never know, I guess, he may just have the world's best poker face.

Can't read my
Can't read my
No he can't read my POKER FACE

I would say Chuck Daly, but that might be bad taste. I would love Avery and I think free agents would like to play for him as well.

I'm going to guess that the announcement is made right quick.

How can he call on free agents tonight/tomorrow and not be able to tell them who the coach is?

Joe's already got his man, IMO.

Is there a presser scheduled?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m5l8_you-cant-hit-albert-finney_shortfilms

How Joe handles coaches

:langlois:


The path of least resistance isn’t for Joe D

Those who remember Marty Mornhinweg’s introductory press conference as Lions coach, or his chaotic first training camp with the Lions, knew early on how his first coaching gig would turn out. There were strong indications shortly into John L. Smith’s tenure at Michigan State that he wasn’t going to pull the Spartans up to Michigan’s level – or Iowa’s, for that matter – in the Big Ten.

The worst thing a sports executive can do is close his eyes and wish hard that things – or people – change of their own doing.

Be wary anytime someone in the media or on talk radio criticizes a coach for his X and O acumen. I wade into those waters with great trepidation based on knowing enough to know how few people are truly qualified to critique such things. What I feel able to judge after 25 years of observing coaches go about their business is the presence they project. The sense of confidence they have in themselves is part of it, but the ability to infuse those around him with the same sense of confidence is an even bigger piece of the puzzle.

And Michael Curry had that ability – before the bullets started flying, at least.

Make no mistake, Michael Curry was Joe Dumars’ guy – with the full support of late Pistons owner Bill Davidson. Joe D had played with Curry and saw how a modestly talented young man a few years removed from college thirsted for responsibility despite arriving on a 10-day contract. He watched him grow into leadership roles – team captaincy, president of the players association – and carve an immediate niche for himself upon his retirement in NBA offices, where he greatly impressed senior leadership.

He made all the sense in the world for the Pistons after one season on Flip Saunders’ bench. The young players – Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo, Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell, et al – loved him. The vets – Tayshaun Prince, Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Chauncey Billups – respected him greatly for the tenacity and integrity he’d displayed both in his playing career, when they all competed with or against him, and beyond.

But the dynamic of those relationships clearly changed once the season started and the perfect blueprint Curry had mapped out over the off-season was turned on its ear, first by the Billups-Allen Iverson trade and then by everything else that happened as a result of it. The considerable respect Curry engendered began to erode and the proof was obvious in the body language of both Curry and those around him.

And the worst thing Joe D could have done was ignored it, or crossed his fingers and hoped the off-season would erase the blackboard. The nature of his business is that mistakes will be made. It’s inevitable, for no one can accurately project every player’s potential or motivation. The key is to minimize the damage those mistakes inflict. Curry probably will get another shot someday and, in different circumstances and with this experience under his belt, he could deliver on the promise Joe D saw in him last summer.

But it didn’t work here last year and expecting it to work next year would have qualified as optimism based on precious little evidence.

So the question, as it always is in professional sports: What’s next?

The names that have floated to the top of the list are Avery Johnson, Doug Collins and John Kuester – and all make sense, if for varying reasons.

Johnson has the most recent track record of success in the NBA. His strength is implementing a structured system. There were whispers in Dallas that his style eventually became overbearing, but the type of discipline the Pistons seemed to lack last year was never an issue in Dallas under Johnson.

Collins is universally recognized as a brilliant basketball mind – his TNT telecasts are mini-clinics, in much the way Hubie Brown’s once were – who, like Johnson, also comes with a reputation for burning through relationships within a few seasons. Pistons fans will recall how Collins milked more wins than seemed possible out of his teams here in the ’90s. When he considered the Bulls job last summer, Collins reflected on those days and said he’d learned to pull back.

Kuester was a highly respected piece of Larry Brown’s staff here previously and was seen as the counterbalance to Brown’s mercurial mood swings with the mettle to voice dissent. He doesn’t have the head coaching track record of Collins and Johnson – though he did run his own college basketball programs before leaping to the NBA – but he was credited by Cleveland coach Mike Brown for making the Cavs a much more efficient offensive team the past two years while Brown focused on defense, his specialty.

That Curry’s firing comes on the eve of free agency is nothing but coincidental. As Dumars said upon announcing the decision this afternoon, it was not one easily reached. It’s fair to assume it’s something he’s considered since the season ended, based on the dysfunction he perceived as the Pistons finished the season in a tailspin and put up little resistance during Cleveland’s four-game sweep in the first round of the playoffs.

Changes come with no guarantees, of course. Acknowledging a problem doesn’t ensure its resolution. But it’s a necessary first step that many in positions of power avoid for the reflection it casts on them. As the tough decision to fire Michael Curry one season into the job proves, the path of least resistance is one Joe Dumars steadfastly avoids.

I'm going to guess that the announcement is made right quick.

How can he call on free agents tonight/tomorrow and not be able to tell them who the coach is?

Joe's already got his man, IMO.
^^ I agree with this post.

so happy when I found out curry was fired. I was about 3 hours behind, same thing happened on the day billups was traded. Sure does make things more exciting.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2751/curryo.jpg

http://hoopshype.com/coaches/doug_collins.jpg

Should I just change b-diddy's avatar now?

He doesn't read the NBA forum here, so he'd never know what happened.

yessir

Some blogger dude suggesting Pat Riley. (LOL)


So who comes in?

I've heard Bill Laimbeer's name thrown around, which would be a complete disaster. I understand he won a WNBA title, but let's be serious, that's like winning a Class A High School title in Michigan (and honestly, I don't think the Shock could play with Detroit Pershing). Laimbeer has a long ways to go before he's handed the keys to an NBA team.

Avery Johnson also obviously comes up, because he's Avery Johnson and in the NBA we recycle coaches like they do paper in Oregon. Johnson seemed to lose control a little bit of those incredibly talented Mavericks teams that he had. But he was also under the thumb of Mark Cuban, which I can't imagine is that much fun.

My choice, and this may sound ridiculous, but I say Pat Riley. Yea, he's the president of the Miami Heat, but after next year, his super-duper-star is going to hit the open market, and what better place to go than a team that has an exorbitant amount of cap room, and could make him quite an offer in 2010?

Riley likes to run the show, but the Pistons are clearly in some sort of building phase right now, and Riley could have a ton of input in building the core of the team, whether it be by going after a guy like Carlos Boozer this year and say Joe Johnson next year, or saving up and making the big move for Dwyane Wade -- who he already has a relationship with -- in a year from now?

Plus, Riley is the perfect kind of coach for this team. He knows how to handle egos a million times the size of Rip Hamilton's. He has the respect of players around the league, and that makes him a coach that free agents could want to play for.

It's definitely a long shot, but making a run at Riley is a lot more enticing that seeing this on the sidelines next year.

http://thedailyderelict.blogspot.com/2009/06/curry-out-as-pistons-coach-whos-coming.html

So does anybody here really want Avery Johnson?

Everything that I hear is that "The Little General" is a control freak, a guy that likes to call a play every time down the court (ala Prick Carlisle).

Many people point to Devin Harris' blossoming in NJ after he got out from under Avery's thumb in Dallas as an example of Avery's overbearing style.

YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

Avery wouldn't be my first choice, but if we can't get JvG, Avery might be the best available...Sam Mitchell anyone?

I would like Avery. He may have been overbearing, but he got a lot more out of the Mavs than anybody else did. And guys learn and get better. After all, Belichick was the HC in Cleveland before he got to New England, and he stunk there. Good thing for the Patriots they gave him a second chance. Could be the same with Avery. I think he's a good coach for a young team, and the Pistons will be.

best....offseason....ever.

Jeff VanGundy is the best fit for what this team needs currently and will likely need after free agency and trades: defense. I think we'll probably have more than enough scoring threats if we actually run an offense, and JVG would be respected by Rip.

No to Mitchell.

Yeah, Mitchell wasn't any more of a player's coach.

Dave Cowens wouldn't surprise me. The best overall fit with our personnel would be Averry Johnson.

Guys, I want you all to know - no matter what happens, Michael Curry will not be the coach of the Detroit Pistons next season, and so you should punch me in the dick if you hear me complain about whatever happens.

I don't know why anyone would say that everyone was against JVG. I remember mentioning him and having quite a few people say it was a good idea a few months ago. He's a solid coach that stresses defense. He doesn't have much of an offensive side to his game planning, but he's a coach that can come in and command some respect while getting guys playing with intensity. He's kind of like a less abbrasive Carlisle.

The best overall fit with our personnel would be Averry Johnson.
Why?

Not disagreeing, just curious as to why you feel that way?

Why?

Not disagreeing, just curious as to why you feel that way?


Because Avery is the ISO-king. He maximizes chances for his best players to get 1-on-1 opportunities with an offense that emphasizes spacing, and compensates for the lack of a pure PG. His Dallas teams were damn near impossible to pressure, and they started Jason Terry at the 1.

If we do deal Rip and sign Gordon, it'd be a damn near perfect match.

Does Avery have a system he likes to run? offense or defense? I dont really recall. I think it's important for our next coach to be someone who has a clearly defined system, and is good at executing it. No more middle of the road jump shooting offenses. One reason I like JVG is he is very clearly a defensive-minded coach.

He definitely has a system. He's Poppovich jr. He takes most of his sets from Popp's playbook, but with a little more spacing and a little more reactive to what the defense does.

Avery will call the same ISO play 30 times in a row until the defense adjusts. He's a stubborn SOB.

Defensively, Avery is mostly an effort guy. He's all about individual matchups, rather than strategies.

Yeah, Mitchell wasn't any more of a player's coach.

Dave Cowens wouldn't surprise me. The best overall fit with our personnel would be Averry Johnson.

He's a likeable guy, but as a coach he is the furthest thing from what we need.

every one of his players in toronto hated his guts. He was voted by the players as the worst coach in the NBA.

Now, obviously the guy can coach a little, but he is the last thing we need.

He'll probably end up in Indy or someplace like that in a few years. Not here please.

you guys dont think this has laimbeer written all over it???

I'd be cool with Avery. They never got the job done in Dallas, but that team has always been flawed in it's makeup.

Yeah, I pretty much want

1. JVG






18. Doug Collins








29. I dunno, maybe Paul Silas or something

every one of his players in toronto hated his guts. He was voted by the players as the worst coach in the NBA.

Now, obviously the guy can coach a little, but he is the last thing we need.

lol, I remember that. Didn't he win Coach of the Year a couple years ago too?

I really do hope whoever comes in finds room on his staff for Laimbeer.

I didn't watch enough Mavs games to really form an opinion, but for what it's worth, my friends in Dallas HATED Avery. Reminded me of the way we talked about Rick Carlisle when he was fired....

I'm wondering if this is less about the head coach, and more about the staff he eventually hires. When a coach is surrounded by a staff respected by the players, good things can happen. Hell, the staff are the people the players work with most, right? Hire the right support crew, right the ship, THEN work on how to make it deep into the playoffs again. The offensive and defensive philosophies of the head coach are only part of the equation.

If JVG is hired, he should be able to bring with him a respectable staff. I would think the same might hold true with Johnson. Though I like Laimbeer, I might question the kind of support staff he'd bring to the court.

Isiah Thomas as assistant coach -- it could happen!

BTW. Laimbeer was called by Dumars this morning, so says the news. Since this didn't air until the afternoon... hmmmm...

I'm pretty sure he'd call Laimbeer even if he wasn't going to hire him, simply to let him know if he was a candidate or not.

it's no coincidence that his firing took place just before the kickoff of FA. sure, we wanted to wait probably to feel out other candidates and to let the draft process play out without distractions.

but it's no coincidence that we fired him just before FA IMO. a curry coached team is not particularly attractive to potential FAs. now i doubt we'll fill the job in the next week. (although it's possible) but at least we can show FAs we are looking for a good coach and it's not curry.

if i'm a FA, i would be much more comfortable signing with a coachless team that is looking for the best candidate, than a team coached by curry.

BTW, sources say Avery has not been contacted nor does he want the job.

Doug Collins is emerging as the early front-runner.

Collins hasn't coached since 2002-03...i dunno, nice TV guy, but good coach? maybe in the mid 90s :>

He's a good coach, period. Not a player's coach by any stretch, but players will follow an asshole if they think he can coach, at least for a few years.

Collins is Larry Brown lite. He's a teacher, which would be great for the young guys on this team to learn under.

He doesn't have Larry's X's and O's brilliance, but he will bring everyone on his roster up a notch by the time he's done with them.

Please not Doug Collins. He's an emotional wreck and the players will absolutely hate him after 1 season.

Please not Doug Collins. He's an emotional wreck and the players will absolutely hate him after 1 season.
he's lasted at least 2 good years wherever he's gone, and his young players have mostly improved under his watch. That's good enough for me.

I just got here...

Can someone please post a summary of wtf has been going on? Please! Is Curry really fired?

yes.

BTW, the free press is now saying Joe Dumars has already contacted Avery Johnson's people, and that Avery now would be interested.

so thats it? No Laims?

Just Curry gone? I'll take that any day, but just wondering.

No way on Laimbeer. They can't justify replacing a rookie coach with another rookie coach.

Right now the candidates look like Avery Johnson, and Doug Collins if Avery says no.

he's lasted at least 2 good years wherever he's gone, and his young players have mostly improved under his watch. That's good enough for me.

Yes but is Collins really the guy to take a team over the top? I'm not saying that the Pistons are going to be ready to contend for an NBA title next year or the year after, but if you're hiring a coach that can't do it anyway then what's the point?

avery may very well be a good coach. but i'm not a huge believer in him.

not to mention i can't stand listening to him talk. but of course that's just a silly issue of mine.

so who are the top rumored candidates to take over?

avery may very well be a good coach. but i'm not a huge believer in him.

not to mention i can't stand listening to him talk. but of course that's just a silly issue of mine.

^At least he can complete a sentence. Curry struggled with that a lot.

Here's your summary, Tahoe:

http://need4sheed.com/images/pink_slip.jpg

You done been pink slipped, bitch!

You done been pink slipped, bitch!

that might be front page worthy, no?

You done been pink slipped, bitch!

My best post ever

Do you guys realize what this all means!!?

I might watch the Pistons next year!

No way on Laimbeer. They can't justify replacing a rookie coach with another rookie coach.

Right now the candidates look like Avery Johnson, and Doug Collins if Avery says no.
Avery by default has more experience than Laimbeer, but I don't think he's as good as advertised. I'll take him though.

I would not like a TMNT to coach the Pistons.

I'll take Avery Johnson. The guy knows how to coach and the players seem to respect him. He didn't do a lot with Dallas but it appears that had more to do with the team than the coach.

PUBLIC POLL ADDED

(I hope I got all of the relevant candidates, plus a few fun ones)

Sorry no MoTown option, we need to keep this 2legit. (and everyone would "vote Mo")

HORSESHIT

Dumars only fires coaches when he's got his replacement ready to sign, this shouldn't take very long...Mo Cheeks anyone?

I'd vote for me, so you're wrong GD.

I find the timing extremely odd.

It's not ideal to be calling free agents without your Coach in place.

That said it's probably better than telling those free agents that Curry is here as Coach for the season.

6 coaches in 10 years.

I wonder how many of the past 8 years or so we were paying two coaches at the same time?

Damnit, I had to miss the big news. Oh, well.

In honor of Coach Curry, here is a photo montage tribute to him.

kM1IwRchGr4

How about Coach K @ Duke?

I'd vote for me, so you're wrong GD.

You missed a lot in your two year absence. And GD - just make it multiple choice and stop doubting your peers here at WTF.

I'd vote for me, so you're wrong GD.

I find the timing extremely odd.

It's not ideal to be calling free agents without your Coach in place.

That said it's probably better than telling those free agents that Curry is here as Coach for the season.

I'd rather be callin FA's with no coach in place than Curry.

Don't hate the poll, hate the pollster.

Wait...

Pistons dump Curry

By Kelly Dwyer
Yahoo! Sports

I don't know what else it will take for people to realize that they constantly underrate Flip Saunders.

And, though this somewhat excuses the job Michael Curry did with the Detroit Pistons, and Joe Dumars' choice to hire him while dumping Saunders, I will never understand why people continually refuse to believe that it was the Pistons players that were screwing up, all along.

Curry was fired today. Woj broke the news and, while it is a little surprising to see a personnel boss admit to a mistake so soon after making it, the actual comment on Curry's coaching abilities that this firing shouted wasn't a shock. He never had control of the locker room. He never seemed to be head coaching material. Down the line, perhaps. Not now. Certainly not in 2008-09.

You shouldn't be able to deal with the multifold changes in the Piston organization since the team went down in the 2008 Eastern Conference finals in black and white, either/or terms, but somehow things stay simple with this team despite all the complexity, mitigating factors, and heaps of excuses.

Really, it still comes down to Saunders being good, Curry not being good, and the Pistons players (both former and current) not playing hard. With Joe Dumars matching each and every brilliant move with a bum one.

Yes, the team had its legs swept out from underneath them when Dumars traded Chauncey Billups(notes) to the Denver Nuggets for Allen Iverson(notes) last November. The team was 3-0, and seemingly, never recovered. Teary-eyed hotel room goodbyes and post-trade on-court ennui seemed to drive this point home. Toss in a 3-0 Pistons record at the time of the deal, and the blood is on Dumars' hands, right?

Not exactly. Two of those wins came against hapless Wizards and Bobcats squads, and another was a two-possession victory over the middling Indiana Pacers at home. This team, as great as Billups was and is, wasn't going anywhere.

Part of that has to do with the uncertainty the players had to feel throughout the 2008 offseason. Dumars made it clear in the press conference hiring Curry that he would hold no cows as sacred during the summer months, and that everyone was on the block. That the player least expected to be jettisoned, the well-respected yet highly-compensated Billups, was sent out seemed to drive that point home.

But his deal took place in November. Not July or August or September. The deed was done in November, after months of wondering when the hammer was to fall, and after a training camp and season-opener bent on establishing a team identity and a new start under Curry.

So, Dumars' fault, right?

Not exactly.

Yes, it's his fault for trading Saunders for Curry. It's his fault for not doing more to chide his Pistons after they lost to inferior (not to denigrate the Miami Heat or Cleveland Cavaliers; but let's get real) teams in the 2006 and 2007 Eastern Conference finals. Several front office transactions were clearly his fault, it's his fault Billups will be overpaid toward the end of his massive contract (necessitating a trade), and his fault he needlessly extended Rip Hamilton's contract after the Billups deal.

But even with all those excuses, Curry was still in over his head. Detroit's once-gorgeous slow-down offense looked a right mess in his hands, and you can't pin that all on Iverson's dribble-happy ways, and the exchange of Billups minutes for Rodney Stuckey(notes) minutes. Rasheed Wallace(notes) turned into Brad Lohaus under his watch, while Stuckey alternated between a Brevin Knight(notes) and World B. Free-clone.

The team seemed to trade defensive assignments and philosophies on the fly, switching off how they played pick and roll or dealt with dribble penetration (the team's greatest weakness) seemingly from possession to possession. The team seemed to have no cogent plan, night after night.

Now, I fully realize that this could entirely be on the players. Did we not see the Pistons (Tayshaun Prince, especially) breaking play after play after play under Flip Saunders in the 2006, 2007, and 2008 playoffs - especially after executing those plays with ease during the regular season? Sure. Did we see them improvise defensively under Saunders (and even Larry Brown) during the playoffs, after regular seasons spent listening and executing. Definitely.

But it's to Saunders' credit that he got until spring before this lot tuned him out. Curry didn't even make it out of November.

That's on the players, sure, but when you hire a coach to lead a group of gripers and moaners like these Detroit Pistons, you better have someone who can make it out of the first month. Curry wasn't that guy. In the end, it is the players' fault, and it is Dumars' fault, but that doesn't mean Curry should have been hired last summer, or retained this summer.



Nice work, Kelly.

I didn't watch enough Mavs games to really form an opinion, but for what it's worth, my friends in Dallas HATED Avery. Reminded me of the way we talked about Rick Carlisle when he was fired....

If he gets the gig, he'll be hated here almost as fast as Curry & Flip were.

By the way Stein mentioned Sam Mitchell, so that's why he's in the poll.

Dumars only fires coaches when he's got his replacement ready to sign, this shouldn't take very long...Mo Cheeks anyone?
I agree with everything you said until you said Mo Cheeks. No fucking thanks times 1 million.

hire a vet coach and Laimbeer as an assistant to be groomed into a HC.

Avery Johnson or JVG would get solid A's from me.

No quality coach is going to come here with a condition that he hire Laimbeer to his staff, IMO.

^IMO2.

:sas:

Stephen A. Smith (http://twitter.com/stephenasmith): Sorry to hear Michael Curry was fired as the Pistons head coach, but I'm not surprised. Joe Dumars had to do it. Players didn't want him.

Adrian Wojnarowski (http://twitter.com/YahooSportsNBA): There is no chance that Bill Laimbeer will be the Pistons next coach

Commentary: Time for Joe Dumars to halt parade of scapegoats

By Terry Foster

The names change but the story remains the same.

The Pistons fired Michael Curry on Tuesday, and this is about another Pistons coach who failed to gain the respect of the players.

Curry was a fine assistant coach who could keep the peace as an underling, but he was not the right guy to lead this team. It is not all Curry's fault, however, because Pistons president Joe Dumars made it impossible for Curry to succeed.

Once Dumars dropped an atomic bomb named Allen Iverson in the dressing room, there was no way Curry had the name, game and experience to keep things together. Curry was not the right guy, but he faced an impossible task during the 2008-09 season.

Now the Pistons must find a guy that players respect -- and that will be nearly impossible. There is speculation that Bill Laimbeer is in the running for the position. But I question if he can get respect from a dressing room full of players who believe they are running the show. And for the most part, they are.

The players never respected Michael Curry. They called him "MC," not "Coach," or "Coach Curry," and they often rolled their eyes when you asked about their coach.

The Pistons are transitioning to a new type of team, with a new way of playing and a new game plan. Curry obviously did not fit that plan and neither does Laimbeer.

The guy who should take over this team is the man who made the move. If Dumars wants to fix this mess, he should take over the team. He cannot keep firing coaches and moving players. Dumars must either step down as team president or step up as head coach.

He is not willing to give his coaches enough support to control an unprofessional dressing room. Is Joe willing to step up and do it? I doubt it.

Instead, it is likely Dumars will hire a guy that will last another two or three years before he moves on to the next scapegoat.

It is time for Dumars to put his stamp on this franchise from the bench.

Dude we are not the timberwolves and anyone who jumps on Terry Foster's article as a good point is a spoiled way too hard. Can't endorse that extreme at all. It's one thing to say Joe should coach and be gm like poppovich, it's a whole other thing to act like perennial failure at Gm that needs to answer to many years of futility.

who is to say dumars has what it takes to be a coach? he's a good GM but coaching is a whole different ballgame.

not to mention i don't see dumars having ANY interest in such a role, regardless. that's not him. he's smart enough he could do it if he put his mind to it. but i think he's a hands off front office guy who doesn't want the day to day dealing with the media, players, etc etc etc. it's exhausting and i don't think he's interested in anything like that.

Even with last year, the Pistons have been the second best team in the NBA of the last seven years. If we are that spoiled to think there is a better GM available then we need a reality check. Let's wait to see how he transitions from one era to another before calling for his head. The team cancers are gone, and he's got another year or two to show me something before I start to change my opinion of him.

Even with last year, the Pistons have been the second best team in the NBA of the last seven years. If we are that spoiled to think there is a better GM available then we need a reality check. Let's wait to see how he transitions from one era to another before calling for his head. The team cancers are gone, and he's got another year or two to show me something before I start to change my opinion of him.

That could easily be disputed, but generally speaking I agree. That's why Curry was so atrocious... the 'Stones have done so well this decade, they didn't need much of a coach sitting in that chair but they got less. He actually drug them down. Every day I was left thinking my right butt cheek could have done just as well.

I'm not sure it can really even be disputed: 6 straight ECF appearences, didn't miss the playoffs once, 7 straight 50 win seasons. I think every other team in the NBA missed the playoffs at least once in that time.

That could easily be disputed, but generally speaking I agree. That's why Curry was so atrocious... the 'Stones have done so well this decade, they didn't need much of a coach sitting in that chair but they got less. He actually drug them down. Every day I was left thinking my right butt cheek could have done just as well.

really?

Of course - they're a given. That's why I said second best team.

Sorry Mo. I went ahead and edited it. IT will never happen again... until FOol says otherwise.

Forgiven.

I'm not sure it can really even be disputed: 6 straight ECF appearences, didn't miss the playoffs once, 7 straight 50 win seasons. I think every other team in the NBA missed the playoffs at least once in that time.

Spurs 3, Lakers 2, Pistons 1. There's the first, most simple argument.

Like I said, not totally disagreeing with your whole statement.. but it's not cut and dry with the Pistons as #2.

I'll go Spurs 1, Pistons 2, Lakers 3. Lakers had that 3 year stretch where they missed the playoffs and were knocked out in the first round, while the Pistons were racking up another Championship series appearence and a couple Conference Finals appearences as well.

Yeah the Spurs have three titles in that span. I don't think the Pistons are even close to that.

one thing i dont like about JVG, he coaches slow offense and get's falsely accused of having god defensive coaching much like Prick Carlisle. not saying his defenses were bad, but they heavily benefited from his slow to death half court sets.

Fair point. I don't know if I'd be able to stomach watching this team struggle to score 95 points on most nights yet again.

i'm more worried about our defense being exploited once someone pushes te tempo or plays actual defense to expose us as just a slow ball team.

Even with last year, the Pistons have been the second best team in the NBA of the last seven years. If we are that spoiled to think there is a better GM available then we need a reality check. Let's wait to see how he transitions from one era to another before calling for his head. The team cancers are gone, and he's got another year or two to show me something before I start to change my opinion of him.
:motown owns:

Instead of laying the blame for last season at Joe's feet how about we look directly at the players?

Sheed, Rip and Iverson all pouted or whined or did whatever the fuck they wanted to most of the season.

We know Sheed and AI won't be back. Will Rip be dealt too?

That's the only way to really seperate this "new" team from the old group of gripers and moaners. I don't thiink Tay would complain as much as he does if he didn't have Rip, Sheed and AI begging for calls all the time.

Bout fucking time.

Exactly - we've watched our team of cast offs "with a chip on their shoulder" go from over achievers to fucking complaining prima donnas.

They act like they never commit a foul or make a mistake and the way they get into the refs can't help us at all when you get down to it.

We don't need them here messing with our young guys. Dice, Kwame and Tay are a different breed of veteran. I don't think they would complain much without the 3 ring circus here.

And this has all been coming for a while, basically since we made back to back trips to the Finals.

Time to start over with guys that wanna play hard and work hard and just get down to business.

And at the Detroit Pistons our business is winning basketball games.

I don't know what clock the NBA runs on but according to my post above it's after midnight, July 1st.

Let's make some calls already!

Agreed that it's the players fault, but it's Joe's fault for not changing the players.

You know, the old inmates/asylum thing.

After giving it some thought, I would be happy with Collins (with Lamb as an assistant, maybe a Nelly/Avery type situation here, with Collins understanding that the plan is after 2 or 3 years to pass off the coaching to Lamb).

I would also be okay with the Little General... but I kind of think we are mostly past the era of needing a real hardass in the driver's seat. We don't have Billups, Wallace, Wallace anymore. Really Rip is the only guy who might need to be corralled. We just need a good coach who has the respect of his players. I think Collins fits the bill a little better than Avery.

I hope Thibodeau is being considered.

I hope Thibodeau is being considered.

Me too

He's not, if you believe what Joe says, that is.

Which I couldn't really blame you for not doing, by the way.

Who am I, McCosky?

Dude, it's early in the coaching search.

So far the experts have named:

JVG - he gets mentioned for every head coaching job
Collins - see JVG
Avery - looks set to become the third musketeer and get mentioned for every fucking job opening until he lands one.

Ti-yi-yi-yime is on Joe's side, yes it is.

He says he needs a guy with lots of head coaching experience. I assume that means NBA-level, not some podunk college somewhere.

But, he's a JVG guy, and he seems to follow him, so maybe...

RW said the Pistons have reached out to Lamb...

sorry if its old news, RW just posted it

Rasheed Wallace?

Dumars told Don Shane that he'd called Laimbeer yesterday morning.

I see a lot of people online saying they wouldn't want JVG around because he always runs down Detroit when he does TV analysis. Well, he might have had a point, and the rest of us always run down Detroit too. Sometimes the most negative critics are the most honest.

I hope Laimbeer gets the job, I really do.

Calling him does not mean he wants to offer him a job. Laimbeer is a friend of Joe's, and I'm sure he wants to let Bill know exactly where he stands.

just seems like too much of a coincidence that laim resigns and then the detroit job opens up

publicly, Dumars can't justify hiring another rookie coach, nor can he justify it to prospective free agents.

there have been a lot of moves that Joe can't justify publicly....why make that a qualification now?

Dumars ain't hiring Laimbeer as head coach, but assistant coach with whatever new coach he's installing might be on the horizon.

I can easily see other coaches refusing the job if they are forced to hire Laimbeer. That's transparent as fuck.

there have been a lot of moves that Joe can't justify publicly....why make that a qualification now?


Because now he has to justify it to free agents.

he can always play the WNBA experience counts card???

Because now he has to justify it to free agents.

he would have to justify any of the rumored targets for varying reasons though....I would think that comes with the territory any time you're trying to sell your franchise to a FA...unless you're just coming off of a championship

He can't sell Laimbeer as a guy you would want to play for. He needs to build a track record first, and NBA track record of something other than a total asshole.

I hope Thibodeau is being considered.
Would need a damn good offensive assistant, but yea he's nails for defensive coaching.

Who knows what he knows about offense.

I wouldn't mind seeing Thibodeau get in the fold.

If I were offered the head coaching gig, I wouldn't want Joe pushing anyone onto my staff. I'd want to pick my own assistants.

What if Joe is waiting to see who he assembles player-wise to decide on a coach? He may have it narrowed to a few guys, but they are better fits with certain player types. Couldn't hurt to keep the option open until he knows exactly what he'll have to work with.

Thank Jesus He's finally gone.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/07/pistons_dumars_wants_coach_in.html

we get a new coach before next Tuesday, my money is on Avery.

hmmmm....i'd prefer JVG honestly. but it seems like it's between collins and johnson. flip a coin.

we need a tough coach but we also need a motivator and a guy who can control/manage the personalities on the team. granted, we won't have a sheed or iverson this year. but still.

So Joe's releasing videos like Bin Laden these days, eh?

Collins >>> Avery

IMO.

So given who we just got, why did :we:/JD fire Curry _when_ we did?

It would've been one thing if we did so because FAs were laughing at playing for Curry, but neither of the ones we got could've been quite so choosy.

^ The big trade that is coming, imo.

edit...the player(s) that are coming in the big trade or their agents gave Joe a reality slap.

Collins has been away from the game for too long as an analyst. At least JVG has been relevant in the past 5 years. Same with Johnson.

Collins pulls out of consideration, apparently, and Avery is rumored to be the leading candidate.



Television analyst Doug Collins, one of two heavy favorites to fill the Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)' sudden coaching vacancy, has withdrawn from consideration for the job.


Collins told ESPN.com on Wednesday night that he called Joe Dumars (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbalayersrofile?playerId=3689) to thank the Pistons president for considering him and to inform him of his preference to stay in television. That would appear to leave an unobstructed path to the job for ex-Dallas Mavericks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal) coach Avery Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbalayersrofile?playerId=390), who just completed his first season in TV as an analyst for ESPN.

Sources close to the situation told ESPN that Johnson had his first substantive discussion with Dumars about the position earlier Wednesday.


Dumars announced on the team's Web site that he hopes to have a new coach in place early next week after firing Michael Curry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nbalayersrofile?playerId=176) on Tuesday, mere hours before the start of free agency.

"My goal is to have a head coach in place by the time we go out to Las Vegas," Dumars said in a video posted on the team's Web site. The NBA Summer League runs July 10-19.

The new coach will inherit a different roster than the one Curry had. On Wednesday, the Pistons agreed to terms with guard Ben Gordon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2381) and forward Charlie Villanueva (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792), sources told ESPN.com.

Dumars announced Curry's dismissal Tuesday. The first-year coach led the Pistons to a 39-43 regular-season record and a four-straight-game loss to the Cleveland LeBrons in the opening round of the NBA playoffs.
In the video, Dumars said Detroit needs a more experienced coach as it moves to integrate new players with remaining veterans.

"We think it's best to move forward with a more experienced coach to get us through these times right now," Dumars said. "We're going through a transition now where we're bringing back some of the veterans, we're implementing some of the younger guys.

"That's probably a little bit too much for a first-time head coach. ... It's a little bit unfair of me to put him in that situation."

Dumars and Clueless played together at Detroit, but that wasn't enough to save Curry's job after he led the team to a losing regular-season record and four lopsided playoff losses to the Cavaliers after six straight Eastern Conference finals appearances.

how about a coaching arrangement that allows collins to have the team every other weekend? we could use the help on sundays and it would lessen the load on him.

Fuck Collins.

Right now I'm not even worried about a Coach.

Avery makes some sense though - dude was a PG and could help Stuckey, plus he was fairly successful with Dallas (though they had some guns there)

Avery in driver's seat

Posted on: July 2, 2009 12:55 am

With word Wednesday night that Doug Collins has removed his name from consideration for the Pistons' head coaching job, Avery Johnson has emerged as the clear favorite to succeed Michael Curry in Detroit.

As he did with the Sixers' job earlier this offseason, Collins flirted with the idea of returning to the sideline but ultimately couldn't resist staying in the relatively blissful world of basketball broadcasting. All in all, that's good for basketball fans because I think Collins is as good as it gets when it comes to NBA color commentators. A little over the top sometimes, but outstanding nonetheless.

So after Collins informed Pistons president Joe Dumars that he was no longer pursuing the job, a source familiar with the situation confirmed, it is now clearly Johnson's job to lose. The former Mavericks coach makes sense on so many levels. Dumars has stated that he wants a more experienced coach. Johnson was a winner in Dallas, and by now he's had time to reflect on some of the things he did wrong -- primarily being too rigid. The third box the Pistons can check off is that Johnson is still getting paid by the Mavericks next season, so he comes at a discount. For similar reasons, I believe Sam Mitchell will get the job in Minnesota. Dollars and cents and past success equals a new opportunity for both. Stay here for updates.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/15850212

Ben Gordon to Leave Bulls for Pistons

By Sam Smith
Bulls.com

Ben Gordon looks like he’ll get his money. But it seems unlikely he’ll see the playoffs for some time to come.

The Detroit Pistons Wednesday agreed to show Ben the money with a contract estimated at five years for $55 million, sources throughout the NBA and Detroit said. One source said it is slightly above that figure. The Pistons also got an agreement on a five year deal estimated from $35 million to $40 million from former Bucks forward Charlie Villanueva.

The Pistons by Wednesday afternoon had posted pictures of Gordon and Villanueva on their official team web site even though there is a moratorium on signings until July 8.

But NBA insiders were scratching their heads over the huge deals after the Pistons off loaded two much bigger talents, Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace, to make a splash in free agency.

The Pistons, who also are without a coach after firing Michael Curry and are said to be leaning toward hiring assistant John Kuester, now have a backcourt with the 6-1 Gordon, Rodney Stuckey and Richard Hamilton and perimeter type forwards in Tayshaun Prince and Villanueva.

Kuester is now considered the lead candidate and perhaps former Piston Bill Laimbeer. Former Bulls and Pistons coach Doug Collins was rumored as a candidate. Collins said Wednesday night, “I am not a candidate for the job.” Collins said he talked to Pistons GM Joe Dumars, but told Dumars he was not interested. Dumars had been pursuing Collins for weeks even though Michael Curry still was coach. Collins said contrary to reports he never contacted the Pistons or sought the job, but Dumars made several attempts to hire him. Former Mavs coach Avery Johnson also is said to be a candidate and has spoken with the Pistons. But sources close to Johnson say Johnson is uncertain about the situation.

The Pistons might have a chance to retain forward Antonio McDyess. But their front court is decimated with only Kwame Brown, Jason Maxiell and Walter Hermann. <-----fail.

The team makeup apparently is scaring off the bigger name coaches, though Collins declined to comment on the team personnel.

I would love to have seen the Bulls bring back Gordon. Apparently, Gordon just agreed to an offer from the Pistons without any negotiations with the Bulls. The Bulls, essentially, did not have a chance to match any offer if they had wanted to.

But you’d have to say a starting five of Derrick Rose, John Salmons, Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah trumps whatever curious lineup the Pistons can muster, especially with the career under achieving Villanueva, who was recently released by the Bucks. And that’s a Bulls team that figures to have a fight for the playoffs.

OK, you say, if that’s the case why not go for Gordon and get into the luxury tax (which would have cost the Bulls more than $20 million in salary and penalties to match Gordon’s Detroit offer)? In addition to the hideous cost, the Bulls then—even if they could offload an expiring deal to move back under the tax line next season—would have been out of the running for a top free agent after next season.

Look, who knows if Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh or Joe Johnson or Dirk Nowitzki or Amar’e Stoudemire or even LeBron James would have any interest in the Bulls. But don’t you at least owe yourself the chance to find out? With Gordon back with this Bulls team, is that a championship level team? Isn’t this about trying to get there and not just winning 40-plus games?

I know Deng was out injured. But this was a .500 Bulls team out in the first round of the playoffs against a team without its best player. I have huge regard for Gordon. I wrote Monday he’s a unique talent whom I’d like try to keep. But you need to get much better, get another star. We know he’s not that.

But good for him.

He took a chance rejecting the Bulls contract offers of $50 million for five years in 2007 and $54 million for six years in 2008. Gordon said he did, finally, change his mind after initially rejecting the 2008 offer after it was pulled off the table and the Bulls declined to reinstate the offer.

That probably was the unofficial beginning of the end.

Gordon said he wanted to return to the Bulls. The Bulls said they wanted to bring Gordon back. Though it hardly seemed likely given the previous situations.

Gordon was a pro during his time with the Bulls. Though he complained at times of not wanting to be a sixth man, he remained professional and didn’t allow it affect his playing. Unless the Pistons trade Hamilton or Prince, Gordon looks like a sixth man in Detroit. After all, one of the big issues with former coach Curry was when he benched Hamilton for Allen Iverson and began to lose the team. And if Gordon starts with Stuckey, that’s an awfully small backcourt with a backup of another small guard, Will Bynum.

Pistons insiders say the team now is regarding Gordon as a sixth man given the current roster.

Gordon practiced often on his shooting, though remained mostly a loner around the team. At times when I’d travel with the team or stay at their hotel, I’d see the entire team leave on one bus from the hotel to the arena and then Ben the only player on the second bus with the broadcasters. Still, he was a popular and well liked teammate.

He had his shortcomings as a player, notably his lack of defense (hardly a great sin given what you see around the NBA) and tendency to monopolize the ball on offense. But he made big shots at big times and never retreated from the moment, not a common quality in the NBA.

Ben said his priority is winning. Look, it’s really having someone show him the money. There’s nothing wrong with that. I suspect most, if not all, of us would do the same. I know pro athletes generally always do that.

Plus, Ben was out of options. If he didn’t get a deal from the Pistons, he probably didn’t have one and would have had to sign a short term deal and probably go back in free agency again next summer. How many years can you challenge fate and win? Ben won. He got paid. A lot. Good for him. He’s done being a winner on the court. The Pistons are now locked in with long term deals for multiple players without having one star. It doesn’t work in the NBA. The Pistons are destined to fight to be around .500 for many years.

The Bulls, essentially, began to head in a new direction with the trade for John Salmons and Brad Miller. Salmons makes $5.5 million this season. He can opt out of his contract after next season. But as a “Bird” free agent, the Bulls can pay him the most and likely will after they exhaust their options in free agency when they have a chance to add a player at a maximum salary or close to that. And the Bulls should have a good nucleus in place to attract someone with Rose, Salmons, Deng, Noah and Kirk Hinrich. Perhaps one of the rookies shows something. It would have been nice to have Gordon as well. But then you wouldn’t have the money to be a player. At this point which would you rather do?

The knock on Avery is that he's a control freak that likes to call every play. That might be a good thing with the guards we have (it didn't go well with a veteran Kidd).

I would love to have seen the Bulls bring back Gordon. Apparently, Gordon just agreed to an offer from the Pistons without any negotiations with the Bulls. The Bulls, essentially, did not have a chance to match any offer if they had wanted to.

That's not what other reports say. Sam Smith is Keith Langolis.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-02-bulls-ben-gordonjul02,0,5953796.story


Once presented with Dumars' formal offer, Brothers [Gordon's agent] contacted the Bulls.

I love how he said "Ben's done being a winner on the court." Because the Bulls have been such a powerhouse the last 10 years that it was a no-brainer to stay with them...

No kidding. Like these signings somehow made us worse. Sam Smith is even worse than Keith. We should all remember that article and e-mail it to him en masse when the Pistons finish at a higher playoff seed than the Bulls next season.

No kidding. Like these signings somehow made us worse. Sam Smith is even worse than Keith. We should all remember that article and e-mail it to him en masse when the Pistons finish at a higher playoff seed than the Bulls next season.


You really think that's a sure thing?

The Bulls had major scoring issues WITH Ben Gordon. Without him, it's going to be a derrick rose 1-man show, with guest appearances by Tyrus THomas, Brad Miller and John Salmons.

True, but they'll have major space next year. Deng and Hinrich are their only contracts over MLE money. They'll have enough to sign two major FA's. With Bosh, Amare, etc out there they could add two all stars to Rose and Deng. They'd have Hinrich/Noah/Tyrus and Salmons as role players too.

They'll suck this year for sure, but Rose could be enough of a draw to attract some good FA's.

they'll have less space than we had this summer. Enough to throw the max at one guy, but not remotely close to two.

People need to get their numbers right when they go around quoting shit like that. Amare and Bosh would have to sign for Jason Maxiell money to BOTH sign with the bulls next summer.

Yes, if they renounce Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas and Derrick Rose next year, they will have just barely enough cap room to go after Bosh and Amare.

We need more posters who tell other posters how to post.

^What Kstat said.

Uh, where are you getting your numbers?

Contracts after next year:

Deng 11.3 mil
Hinrich 9 mil
Salmons 5.8 mil
Rose 5.5 mil (I'm pretty sure they'll pick up his option, then talk extension later)
Thomas 6.2 mil (qualifying offer)
Noah 3.1 mil (again they'll pick up this option and extend later)

That is 40 mil with Thomas, 34 without.

That's enough for one max with Thomas staying, two good FA's if they let him walk. With Thomas gone they'll have 5 mil more than we had this offseason.

They aren't going to extend Rose and Noah prior to using their cap space, that would be stupid.

What's next for the Bulls?

The Bulls will be just fine despite the loss of Gordon to the Pistons


What about the Bulls? The loss of a 20-point scorer hurts them less than you might think. Kirk Hinrich (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1981) or John Salmons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1726) will likely take over the starting shooting guard role, and with the return of Luol Deng (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2429) from injury there are now four players (Derrick Rose (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3456), Salmons, Hinrich and Deng) vying for the minutes at the three perimeter spots. The Bulls are likely to sign a low-cost perimeter player to protect themselves in case of injury, but otherwise their backcourt depth leaves them in largely the same position they were before Gordon left.
And by not inking Gordon to a long-term deal, they've set themselves up to be a major player in the 2010 free-agent market. Chicago's weather is a minus but its big-city status and accompanying nightlife are definite pluses, and it's easy to wonder if the city might be a lure to a certain Chicago native who currently plies his trade in Miami.
Alternatively, the Bulls could play their hand sooner by making a trade with the $30 million in expiring contracts they have between Brad Miller (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=556), Jerome James (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=383), Tyrus Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) and Tim Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=847), with first-round picks James Johnson and Taj Gibson also looming as potential assets in a deal. Depending on who is looking to shed contracts at the trade deadline (or even this summer), they look to be a major player in any trade discussion in the next eight months.
John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider.

They have 30 million in expiring contracts, but that doesn't mean that they'll have 30 million under the salary cap. They're over the cap and under the lux, so they'll likely have 20-25 if they don't keep Thomas.

He said they can use that 25 mil in space or move the 30 mil in expirings for players now. What's to stop them from moving those expirings for quality players. There are still quite a few teams looking to cut salary.

I don't see 25mil anywhere in that article.

He doesn't say the space. Read my post. I broke down their entire salary. They'd be at 34 mil with Tyrus renounced. that is about 25 mil.

most stars this year are expiring contracts themselves.

I thought this was mildly funny.

Russ Bengston (http://twitter.com/russbengtson): Shouldn't the Pistons just give in and hire Jim Calhoun as their next coach?

I am so happy right now. Michael Curry gone, and we're getting two quality players to come onto the Pistons for next season. Now, if we can get an quality Coach like Avery Johnson, and get Bosh (at worst, by next February, and do a sign and trade to keep him here for the next 4-6 years), I'm going to positively ecstatic!!!

:)

He doesn't say the space. Read my post. I broke down their entire salary. They'd be at 34 mil with Tyrus renounced. that is about 25 mil.

I highly doubt they let Tyrus walk, they're pretty high on him.

Also, you forgot their Taj Gibson and James Johnson, that's what, another $2-3 Mill?

Bulls high on Tyrus?

I read they wanna dump him cause him and Noah are "too similar" or some such thing.

Ty Thomas' contract may be the one preventing them from having max cap room for 2 max contracts next season. Assuming Rose and Noah get the QO, he will count against the cap at more than his free agent value if I recall correctly and an extension will hurt as well. I think he very well could be a throw in. Maybe BG and Ty for AI at whatever they negotiate and Kwame they would want. But if they are willing to take Max and Sharpe, it could give us just a little more wiggle room to get over the MLE.

Could we swap Max and Tyrus in that S&T senario? That would give us another few million.

:mccosky:


Dumars: 'Not a given' that Avery Johnson is Pistons' next coach

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Auburn Hills -- It is in no way a sure bet that Avery Johnson will be the next coach of the Detroit Pistons. That became clear early Friday when president Joe Dumars indicated that his coaching search was still open.

Dumars said Johnson was still being considered, but that it was "not a given" that he was going to be hired.

Doug Collins withdrew himself from consideration Wednesday, leaving Johnson and Cleveland assistant John Kuester on Dumars' original short list. As of Friday morning, the Pistons have not asked the Cavaliers permission to speak with Kuester.

Dumars did not want to reveal any other potential candidates.

So the Mavs still owe Avery about $4m, would he have to give that back if he took the job here?

Do you think that means he'd be looking to recoup that from Joe?

In essence, we'd need to overpay him.

Sound logic?

very logical, actually. Best explanation I've heard yet.

Fratello has entered the running.

I know that Joe is tight with Izzo, I wonder if he even contacted him?

Highly doubt Izzo wants to leave a lifeime contract for a job he can lose in 2 years.

Probably not. At some point, Coach K is going to want in the NBA, too, I think.

If you remember, he flirted with the Lakers a few years ago, and of course, he just coached the Olympic team, too.

Not sure if he's up for that same risk that you mentioned right now, though.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4305278


Pistons president Joe Dumars is scheduled to have his first face-to-face meeting with Avery Johnson later this weekend regarding Detroit's coaching vacancy, according to NBA coaching sources.

Sources told ESPN.com that Dumars and Johnson, after discussing the job by phone, have planned to meet Sunday at Johnson's home in the Houston area, with Dumars intent on trying to hire his next coach before the Pistons begin summer-league play next week in Las Vegas.

After former-Pistons coach Doug Collins pulled out of consideration earlier this week, ESPN analyst Johnson was widely regarded as the leading candidate for the position, which was vacated by Tuesday's firing of Michael Curry.

Dumars, though, told the Detroit News that it is "not a given" that Johnson will be hired as Curry's replacement, with sources telling ESPN.com that Dumars has added Boston Celtics associate head coach Tom Thibodeau to an original list of candidates that featured Collins, Johnson and Cleveland Cavaliers assistant coach John Kuester.

Kuester and Thibodeau have no head-coaching experience in the NBA, which appeared to clash with Dumars' recent declaration that he thinks it is "best to move forward with a more experienced coach." It wasn't immediately clear Friday night if the Pistons have requested permission from either Kuester's or Thibodeau's current teams to speak with them.

Johnson has declined interview requests about the Pistons' search but said during the season that he would be more proactive in seeking jobs after completing a second season as a television analyst for ESPN. The 2008-09 season was Johnson's first in TV after the Dallas Mavericks fired him in May 2008 in the wake of a second successive first-round playoff oust.

When he turned down a mid-season offer to coach the Memphis Grizzlies, Johnson said that he was "enjoying my time at ESPN and with my family" but that he was also intent on returning to coaching "at the right time and in the right situation."

Colleagues said Johnson is intrigued by the opportunity to work for one of the league's signature franchises, even though the Pistons are in the midst of what Dumars openly describes as a "transition" period.

Collins' decision to withdraw his name from consideration Wednesday night and stay in TV -- amid a growing belief in league coaching circles that he was being offered the job -- appeared to have opened a clear path for Johnson. If Dumars and Johnson can hash out a deal, Detroit's monetary obligation to Johnson in those two years would be shared, since the Mavericks still owe Johnson $4 million over each of the next two seasons.

If Dumars or Johnson ultimately decides that the fit isn't right, it's unclear how Detroit will proceed. Sources said Dumars is a long-time admirer of Kuester's work -- and Kuester won raves last season in Cleveland for his impact on Mike Brown's offense -- but Dumars also appeared to make experience a prerequisite when he let Curry go, saying it was "a little bit unfair of me" to ask Curry to guide the Pistons through their transition as a first-time head coach.

Proven veterans known to be interested in a return to head coaching include Del Harris, Paul Silas and Collins' fellow TNT analyst Mike Fratello. Sources with knowledge of Detroit's thinking maintain that former Pistons center Bill Laimbeer, who recently quit as coach of the WNBA's Detroit Shock to pursue NBA opportunities, is unlikely to be considered for the position.

Johnson, 43, posted a 194-70 record in four seasons with the Mavericks. He took Dallas to the NBA finals for the first time in franchise history in 2006, earned NBA Coach of the Year honors that season and followed up with a 67-15 record in the 2006-07 season.

Johnson's tenure in Dallas began to unravel with a first-round loss to the eighth-seeded Golden State Warriors and former Dallas coach Don Nelson in the 2007 playoffs and was followed by a tension-filled final season in 2007-08 that could not be saved by the midseason acquisition of Jason Kidd.

On Wednesday, free agents Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva made verbal commitments to sign with the Pistons on July 8, when the league-wide moratorium on signings and trades is lifted.

The Pistons' next coach will be Dumars' sixth in 10 seasons as the head of Detroit's basketball operations, which is said to be one of the factors that gave Collins pause.

Well, that's the first mention of Paul Silas that I have seen, although it's not directly related to the Pistons job. If you like Laimbeer, Silas is about as close as you're going to get in terms of a guy that was a hardnosed rebounder and defensive mind.

If Joe has any intentions of going after Boozer, then Silas wouldn't work. If you don't know why, then it's worth the time to look it up.

I'm disappointed that JVG hasn't been mentioned as an official candidate. Do any of you know if he has made it known that he wouldn't be interested?

the dude in boston is somebody i'd really want to look at, thibodeau. he is the top assistant in the nba.

granted, joe said he wanted someone experienced. but i think he has enough real experience in the trenches that he is ready to be a really good coach.

avery has 4 years coaching what was already a good team. not saying he's not a good coach on his own- he took them to the finals and some great records. but i'm not 100% sold on him as the right guy. i don't really know who would be 'the right guy' actually. but i just have this feeling that avery's act will grow corny before too long.

i know that sounds ridiculous but i just don't know if he's tough enough to get results out of a mediocre team and to command lockeroom respect.

we'll see. i could come around on him. i always liked the guy as a player but i'm not 100% on him as our guy yet.

i always liked the guy as a player but i'm not 100% on him as our guy yet.

I keep envisioning airballs.

Yeah, that airball he hit to give the Spurs one of their titles was memorable.

Good to see the right assistants on the list. That list of vet coaches "with interests of returning" is brutal.

The more I think about it the more against some old dude I am.

We're supposed to be starting all over again (almost) and going with someone like Doug Collins or JVG would send the wrong message to the fanbase IMO.

The message that sends is that we're close to a title - and we're far from it (unless some massive trade happens).

We've got some nice pieces to build with and develop and we need a guy that can help those players reach their potential.

Some hard ass Coach might not be the right choice.

I look at it differently. To me, if Joe hires an experienced, championship-caliber head coach, then that signals to me that he's ready to make some corresponding moves to get us back into contention.

If he hires another inexperienced seatwarmer, then I think we're headed towards full-blown rebuilding and probably another new coach in 2 years.

When he fired Curry, he said that it wasn't fair to put a first time coach through a transition like this. What has changed?

Is this another "I'm not going to do what I said I was going to do" thing?

Avery is still young for a headcoach, had a good record and has been in the finals...we're not contending the next 2 years, but maybe in 3-4 years and wouldnt it be nice if we keep a headcoach for more than a season or 2, Avery all the way! he's a good coach and i think he learned something from his mistakes in Dallas...he can be a championchip coach with the right players...you know if Doc could do it, and i think Avery is better

I know Avery has a system, and he obviously can coach. That alone makes him an upgrade.

IMO, it's a chance to make up for the fuckup of hiring Flip Saunders. Avery is the hardass version of Flip.

The thing is, he's going to obviously ask joe for the biggest fucking poison pill clause in history, something that means the Pistons will never even consider firing him for at least 3-4 years.

Avery isnt stupid. He knows Joe goes through coaches like butter (literally). But, he also knows Joe puts together very good basketball teams. The Pistons job is a good one, if he can get some guaranteed security.

With Avery Johnson no longer considered the inevitable choice, the candidacy of Cleveland Cavaliers assistant John Kuester has gained momentum in the Detroit Pistons coaching search, league sources said Friday.

Johnson, the ex-Dallas Mavericks coach, is still in consideration, but Kuester and Boston Celtics assistant Tom Thibodeau have graded out favorably in GM Joe Dumars’ research, sources say.

Kuester has a history with the organization as a Larry Brown assistant. Dumars will meet with Johnson this weekend. Sources say that Dumars had a lengthy telephone conversation with Thibodeau on Friday and is expected to speak with him again.

Kuester has been on several NBA coaching staffs, including Cleveland, Detroit, New Jersey and Philadelphia. Thibodeau is considered one of the best tactical assistants in the NBA, especially on the defensive end. The Celtics are believed to pay him more than $1 million a season, high-end among NBA assistant coaches.


Once Doug Collins dropped out of consideration this week, Johnson was presumed to be the front-runner. Nevertheless, it is clear that Detroit is in no hurry to hammer through a deal with Johnson. There’s no indication why his candidacy hasn’t sped through in Detroit, although past employers and teammates haven’t always spoken glowingly of him.

The Pistons are searching for a coach after firing Michael Curry on Monday. Dumars has remade the roster with the free-agent signings of Ben Gordon(notes) and Charlie Villanueva(notes). Detroit is still trying to retain its own free agent, Antonio McDyess(notes).

What's changed GD?

Curry got fired lol

I can imagine Joe saying that the 2008-09 season was too much for a first year Head Coach.

The 2009-10 team is completely different cause we don't have Me-Myself and Iverson or Sheed.

Avery is going to want a contract that forces Dumars never to fire him, and Dumars is going to want assurances that Avery will be less hands-on this time around.

rumours are he wants at least 4 years. and roughly $20mil.

fair demand.

According to the free press article:


But citing an unnamed source, the reports said Johnson wants a say in personnel matters and "is looking for a true partnership with management/ownership."


Wonder what Joe thinks about that.

Anyways, everything seems geared towards insulating the job from getting fired as part of the coaching carousel.

Joe painted himself in this corner. Any quality head coach is going to demand the same thing.

a say in personel matters? i guess that depends on your definition of having 'a say in personel matters' means. i think joe should have his coach's input and listen to his coach's opinion. but it should remain dumars job to shape the roster and the coach's job to coach. and it will of course.

avery johnson hasn't built a championship roster the last time i checked. so him having a say in personel matters should be just that- a say. no power or major decision making ability from the coach. no thanks!

I think the say in personnel is overblown. Most good coaches have a say.

Dumars has listened to his coaches before in making acquisitions. he got Sheed partly at the behest of larry brown.

exactly. which is why avery's demand (IF this really is so) of this is even more bizarre. all good GMs consult their coaches regarding player acquisitions and let them have some input.

dumars has always operated that way too. but anything beyond that is bad news.

i don't get why. It's not like Avery can have it in his contract that he gets to makes trades.

All he can ask is that Dumars listen to him. That's all. He cannot be the GM/coach, because we already have a GM. There's nothing he can negotiate with further.

By "true partnership," I think all that means is that Joe see Avery less as an employee and more as a business partner. I have no problem with that.

It all comes down to job security. That's what this is all about.

IMO, it's a chance to make up for the fuckup of hiring Flip Saunders.
Well that was one heck of a waffle from the time we hired Flip.

I'm not sure Dumars has 'all' the power anyway. I'm sure Mr D and dipshit Tom had a lot to say about player moves. I'm not sure JoeD can negotiate power to a coach that he doesn't have.

Joe may have more now that Mr D has passed. I don't know the structure yet.

other than coaching, i don't know of any interference from D or wilson on personnel decisions.

Wilson may be a snake, but he's smart enough to know he doesn't know shit about basketball, and should stay away from the golden goose.