1. No one wants to trade anyone good to us for our assets.

2. If he declares interest in anyone right now, other teams will know that we are renouncing Sheed, Dice, AI. Maybe this hurts our ability to S&T Sheed.

3. He wants to wait until July 9, the date for extensions I believe.

4. He wants to wait for the 3 day trade window has expired on all the guys who have been moved already.

5. No one worth getting has been traded so far.

6. He can't do anything without the cap room now, so why announce any interests until 7/1.

Personally, I would love to think that he wants deal for CP3, Bosh, or Amare, but more likely I think teams just aren't as worried about the tax as we thought they might be.

7. The offseason hasn't officially begun yet. Calm the fuck down.

Oh yeah, add in that he probably wants to officially know what the fuck Kwame's doing.

7. The offseason hasn't officially begun yet. Calm the fuck down.

i kind of agree here, I could see this off season being a giant dissapointment

Isn't it tampering to talk about FA's before July 1st?

How can he start making deals without even being allowed to comment on FA's yet?

lets face the reality we won't get that "superstar" with capspace or trade RIP/Tay, just highly unlikely...also we won't contend anytime soon, when you look at teams like Cleveland,Boston, Orlando...no chance at all, so we should try to get young guys like Lee, Millsap, Marvin, Gordon...they are ok players, maybe allstars someday, this offseason is just the first step in the rebuilding process...
also Joe D will first make some Freeagent signings, and then will come some trades maybe, not the other way around cause of the capspace

that same logic is why other teams built themselves to win after the Lakers' run, while Joe built his team to go THROUGH the Lakers.

This pussified new version of Piston fan is making me ill. Whine, bitch, we're never going to beat the Cavs, Lakers, whine, whine, whine, the rold is coming to an end, bitch bitch some more.

Take a look at our roster and the rosters of other contenders in 2000. Everyone said THEN we should just keep tanking and build like the fucking clippers. God, its so nice to know adults are in charge.

7 years ago nobody thought a nucleus of Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince and Ben Wallace could beat the NBA's best teams. What gives people the fucking lack of balls to say the same type of core group isn't out there t be had again?

i am not whining, just beeing realistic, we've got a depleted roster, we lack 3 or maybe 4 quality starters...im just saying give Joe D some time, he can't fix all in one offseason and bring us back to contender status, that's just unrealistic!

in 2000 we had 2 quality starters, which is much less thatn what we have now.

We were also capped out. We have $20 million to burn this time around.

KStat, please.

You gotta be kidding me if you think the offseason starts on the 1st. Is that why all of the contenders have already strengthened their rosters before free agency has even opened? If we were going to do any trades with Stuck, Rip, or Tay I am fairly certain that similarly they could have been moved before the start of free agency.

How can you plan your trades (let's say Joe has a RIP for big man trade in mind) when technically none of the FA's have declaired? Let's say he wanted a specific player and at the last minute that player decides no to opt out.

Sure, he's started his offseason, but there is a limit to what you can do with all the unknowns before July 1.

KStat, please.

You gotta be kidding me if you think the offseason starts on the 1st. Is that why all of the contenders have already strengthened their rosters before free agency has even opened? If we were going to do any trades with Stuck, Rip, or Tay I am fairly certain that similarly they could have been moved before the start of free agency.


If we had traded for Vince Carter, Shaq or Jamal Crawford, Joe D would be run out of town. The players Joe wants were not available then.

As has been stated a thousand fucking times, his biggest weapon is his cap space, and he needs to know what Kwame's going to do before he makes a move. He's not a hyper-active 5-year old like you seem to want him to be.

Unless draft picks were to be involved there was no reason to make a deal already. Now that the draft is over, he can trade future picks no problem if he has to.

He said many times he wasn't moving from #15.

8. Players and agents can't stop laughing their ass off when they hear the words "Coach Michael Curry".

If we had traded for Vince Carter, Shaq or Jamal Crawford, Joe D would be run out of town. The players Joe wants were not available then.

As has been stated a thousand fucking times, his biggest weapon is his cap space, and he needs to know what Kwame's going to do before he makes a move. He's not a hyper-active 5-year old like you seem to want him to be.

VC, Jamal Crawford, Shaq I agree Joe would have been run out of town. The #5, Foye, and all the other TRADING pieces out there were definitely things that I hope would we could have worked on. Maybe we did or didn't explore those, but those were the moves I would hope we were involved in as well. That's all I am saying. Calm down ;)

Foye was traded for a top-5 pick. One we didn't have.

You are very observant. I am just making the point that we could have made trades before free agency. Touchy touchy.

And the Amare package was something we couldn't match on Draft Day.

But with cap space comes great flexibility.

I'm keeping low expectations this offseason. I heard it last offseason when Joe said "big changes would be made" and nothing happened. I expect a similar outcome this offseason. I'm a Joe supporter, but last offseason (and the beginning of this season) was the worst of his career.

Um, we didn't have $18 mil in cap space last off-season.

Like it or not Joe has to spend some of that money on a new PF and C combo.

Or are Maxiell and Kwame gonna be our starters and play 48 minutes?

I understand we didn't have the cap room we have this offseason, but guess what? People have to want to come here. It's not like a player costs a specified amount of money and you buy them. There is a bidding process for every player. How attractive is the Detroit situation right now with a moronic head coach and no superstars? Sure we could overpay a couple players to play here, but that would set us back five years.

Is that better explained?

I think many people are expecting a franchise altering move, but we've seen it already. Billups for Stuckey was it and it doesn't matter if you like it you better learn to love it cause it ain't changing IMO.

The fact that Joe spoke about getting guys who could compliment Stuckey and develop with Stuckey over the next 3 to 5 years kind of tips you off to what Joe is thinking.

Richard Hamilton fits only ONE part of what Joe stated he was looking for this off-season. He can't create his own shot. He isn't a high volume 3 point shooter. He isn't an extra ball handler on the floor.

But doubt creeps into my thinking because Joe said he wants to add a player or 2 that will re-energise our current squad. That includes Rip, right?

Anyway, all the above things Rip doesn't do apply to Prince as well. But isn't he gonna be re-energised by our signings?

You could say Joe was spewing bullshit to the media but I think his first option is to sign 2 quality players (does the character thing mean Boozer is out?) to re-energise those 2.

If the 2 he is chasing don't end up here then he'll have other things in mind.

We all need to remember it's extremely unlikely a stud like Bosh arrives here this off-season.

And we all need to remember the last time Joe built a team he did it mostly with guys under the radar.

Which is why I've pimped Charlie V, mentioned Travis Outlaw and Steve Blake, mentioned Marvin Williams etc.

They don't appear to fit the mold of Piston players...

But they cover several basis Joe spoke about.

Pharoah, lets not forget that Joe D's efforts to fill out a roster with non-studs (like the 04 champ team) largely started after a complete inability to both acquire other studs (like AI at the time) as well as the inability to retain our own stud (Hill). Perhaps Motown is hoping for Dumars earlier strategy of making a stud splash first and then quality non-studs if it doesn't work out.

And I agree with your post. I am warming up to Marvin Williams, Charlie V, etc, but personally any offseason where you are the only one with cap room and a willingness to spend it should net us at least one near stud IMO. Maybe BG will fill that role. I still don't know.

Obviously you don't just buy them but let's put things in perspective:

We are the best team out there with money to spend.

(I think some fans will claim we overpaid a player to come here but really the only bidding going on will be between us and the free agents' current teams)

We have a legend as GM, a guy players respect.

We have 2 All-Star calibre wingmen.

We have a history of winning and making the playoffs.

For any free agent we chase it's gonna come down to staying where they are now or moving to Detroit and joining our organisation.

Joe needs to sell our history to these free agents.

For a guy like Marvin Williams (just an example) I think it's a pretty easy choice. All we have to do is make the right offer so that A) he accepts it and B) they choose not to match.

As for Curry - Coaches come and go quickly in the NBA. I would be sure to inform any free agent that there is no guarantee Michael Curry will still be coaching the Pistons in 12 months time.

Obviously you don't just buy them but let's put things in perspective:

We are the best team out there with money to spend.

(I think some fans will claim we overpaid a player to come here but really the only bidding going on will be between us and the free agents' current teams)

We have a legend as GM, a guy players respect.

We have 2 All-Star calibre wingmen.

We have a history of winning and making the playoffs.

For any free agent we chase it's gonna come down to staying where they are now or moving to Detroit and joining our organisation.

Joe needs to sell our history to these free agents.

For a guy like Marvin Williams (just an example) I think it's a pretty easy choice. All we have to do is make the right offer so that A) he accepts it and B) they choose not to match.

As for Curry - Coaches come and go quickly in the NBA. I would be sure to inform any free agent that there is no guarantee Michael Curry will still be coaching the Pistons in 12 months time.

Agreed about the money.

You will never see Rip or Tay in an ASG ever again. Do you honestly think they are remotely close considering LBJ, PP, Granger, Caron, Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith (PF?), Joe Johnson, Iggy, and Wade? Hell I didn't even add Ben Gordon to that list, who I know you like better than Rip.

I would add to this list that I have definitely heard players in the past say they like Metro Detroit.

No argument about the winning. I am interested to know if players still thinks that is the case, but I give Joe's rep the advantage here.

I think these can be selling points. If this was next year, then the other teams would win, but I see no reason why we should be able to draw whomever we want this offseason without overpaying. I guess we will find out soon enough.

Yeah, I remember when we tried to lure Jalen Rose and Chris Webber with cash and tried to acquire Iverson via trade.

Maybe Joe was lucky then that his big plan failed...

But surely he's learned after all this time what to look for and what to avoid.

I rip him for his shitty drafts but I have to be honest and say I believe he's improved since he was first appointed.

The Maxiell and Darko picks will forever piss me off but Stuckey, AA and the 3 dudes this year seem like being players. We can't judge them fairly yet (gotta wait 3 years) but if everyone is praising your picks it's generally a good sign (unless you picked some foreign fuck named Darko)

Agreed about the money.

You will never see Rip or Tay in an ASG ever again. Do you honestly think they are remotely close considering LBJ, PP, Granger, Caron, Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith (PF?), Joe Johnson, Iggy, and Wade? Hell I didn't even add Ben Gordon to that list, who I know you like better than Rip.

Let me state this for the record:

I, Pharaoh do not in any way, shape or form like Ben Gordon better than Richard Hamilton. If you've read my defense of Tay then imagine what my defense of Rip might say.

But my feelings don't matter here. My opinion doesn't count. Joe wants what he wants:

High volume 3 point shooter
Another ball handler
Can create own shot

Rip does none of those things. Ben Gordon does all of them. How well he creates or handles the ball can be debated by people who care...

The fact remains I do not like him more than Rip.

BTW, when I say All-Star calibre I mean dudes who are in that tier of players or aren't far from it.

Tay and Rip aren't far off that group IMO. Granted they are heading towards the other end of the scale as opposed to "developing" into All-Stars, but they are in the area.

I think Detroit has to be considered in the top 10 most desirable franchises to play for, and thus a destination for superstars. They might choose the Lakers, Spurs or Boston to play for first, but none of them have cap space (or will next year either).

NY may have trouble getting the first all star to sign there. Look at what happened in Orlando (when they had all that cap space). Sure, they have the aura of the city/arena, but they haven't proven they can do jack shit since Ewing left (and they never won it all with him either).

I'm confident we'd be able to add a player of Bosh's level next year. Perhaps Joe will simply add one major piece this year (and a 6th man scorer maybe) and save enough to go for Bosh next year.

Suppose he moves RIP and Max for a center and an expiring deal, signs Gordon and Odom or Charlie V and resigns Dice for a nice one year deal (with whatever space he has left)

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/Stuckey
SF Tay/AA
PF Charlie or Odom/Dice
C trade/Kwame

In 2010 he uses the space from Kwame and Dice to sign Bosh:

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/AA
SF Tay/Odom or Charlie
PF Bosh/Odom or Charlie
C trade/Bosh

that 2009/10 team wouldn't win the title, but would be good enough to attract Bosh still. It's possible this is a two year plan.

I understand we didn't have the cap room we have this offseason, but guess what? People have to want to come here. It's not like a player costs a specified amount of money and you buy them. There is a bidding process for every player. How attractive is the Detroit situation right now with a moronic head coach and no superstars? Sure we could overpay a couple players to play here, but that would set us back five years.

Is that better explained?
HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!

I'd be talking to Bosh's agent now about how interested he is in coming to us next year, and what he'd like to see from us, as well as some of the other big FAs for next season.

What about taking a look at the 2nd tier FAs next year? Everyone will be clammoring for LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Boozer (if he doesn't opt out and stays healthy), and there will be quite a few guys that we could snatch up with a solid offer early.

I don't mind the idea of bringing in someone like Odom. He could play a role similar to what Lewis does in Orlando. You just have to have a solid C next to him.

Maybe Joe read my post this morning. Okay which one of you guys is Joe? FESS UP!