:langlois:


They’ll know more, of course, after getting to work with all three players during the Las Vegas Summer League in a few weeks. The competition should be fierce for minutes at the two forward spots with Daye, Summers and Jerebko joined by last year’s second-rounders, Walter Sharpe and Deron Washington, in addition to Trent Plaisted, who more than likely will play center in Vegas. It’s likely Washington will get the majority of his minutes at shooting guard because of the roster overload at forward, which will also give the Pistons a better idea of how his offensive game has matured in one impressive season in Israel.

It’s also clear that the heat is turned up on Sharpe, who had some punctuality and other issues of professionalism as a rookie.

This much is certain: With at least seven players on their Las Vegas roster who the brass believes has the chance to be on their NBA roster either this year or soon – Daye, Summers, Jerebko, Plaisted, Washington, Sharpe and Will Bynum, who is playing at his choice – it will be a far more compelling Summer League season than usual.

I’ll be in Las Vegas sending reports back on all of those players – and, hey, it’ll also be my debut on Twitter, assuming I’m sharp enough to figure out how to do it.

assuming I’m sharp enough to figure out how to do it.

Never assume, Keith, never.

www.twitter.com/keithlovesthepistons

Oooooohhhh...Have I been Keith-Rolled?

I feel like he's telling someone to start the page and pose as keith langlois...

No, that would be www.twitter.com/evilkeithlanglois

regardless, I just took the twitter name KeithLanglois

lol

http://twitter.com/LLTP

Keith_Langlois has just been taken. I hope this makes it a pain in the ass for him.

Hurry people join in and take all of the available Pistons/Keith Langlois related screen names!

Good thing I have a bunch of fake email addresses I can use...

https://twitter.com/Keith_Langlois

Edit: sorry for spamming the summer league thread, I'll stop.

https://twitter.com/Keith_Langlois

Edit: sorry for spamming the summer league thread, I'll stop.

I love the Pistons more than my ugly wife. Fuck that whore.

OMG, I'm dying.

Wow, that's terrible yet awesome all at once.

Subscribed.

Incredible DrR

I might grab a piston name now and start twittering about my game performance during games next season.

Someone needs to do "the_real_keith_langlois"

what's his blog's name?

This thread is probably already more fun than the summer league will be.

You won't be saying that when we trot out a Bynum and 4 SFs

You won't be saying that when we trot out a Bynum and 4 SFs
potc

The NBA: Where Keith Langlois bursting his cherry in Vegas happens

Isn't anyone else looking forward to Rodney Billups yet again?

Is he on the roster again?

WTF?

Should he be playing for Denver's summer league?

I'm just joking, but it seemed like he was on our summer league roster for 3 years or some shit like that.

It's nice to be connected, though.

How many dudes missed out on NBA gigs cause they didn't know someone who knew someone that was playing with someone who had power to manipulate someone who could organise for someone to be put on the Summer League roster?

Too lazy to look up the roster and schedule.

Somebody help!

14 Michael Bramos G 6-5 221 Miami (Ohio)
12 Will Bynum G 6-0 185 Georgia Tech
5 Austin Daye F 6-11 190 Gonzaga
6 Ibrahim Jaaber G 6-2 175 Pennsylvania
33 Jonas Jerebko F 6-10 231 Sweden
34 Dwayne Jones C 6-11 250 St. Joseph’s (PA)
7 Andre Owens G 6-4 200 Indiana
44 Trent Plaisted F 6-11 245 BYU
42 Walter Sharpe F 6-9 245 Alabama-Birmingham
35 DaJuan Summers F 6-8 240 Georgetown
20 Clay Tucker G 6-5 210 Wisconsin-Milwaukee
13 Deron Washington G/F 6-7 210 Virginia Tech

Schedule:

7/10 vs Kings 1:00PM EST
7/11 vs Raptors 11:00AM EST
7/13 vs Warriors 5:00PM EST
7/15 vs Knicks 11:00AM EST
7/17 vs Cavs 11:00AM EST

Our team might be really good this year (if that means anything)...

I would guess that we'll go 3-2, with losses vs. TDot and the Cavs.

The mojo from getting Hedo and the spirt of LeBron make those two teams too much for the young Pistons.

I'm wondering who's gonna coach the summer league team.

If Dumars doesn't have a coach in the next couple days, he should ask Laimbeer to do it, or coach 'em himself. ;)

Sullivan, Ron Oliver or one other that I can't recall right now have been mentioned.

Why not Cowens? They just moved him into the front office a few weeks ago.

Coaches will be Walker, Sullivan, Harold Ellis and Bill Pope.

I'd think Cowens is above coaching summer league. That's typically a job you set aside for younger assistants.

I must have missed the Cowens to the front office news. What's his role?

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/

sham about our summer league roster,lol...


Summer league round-up: Detroit Pistons
View the Pistons summer league roster.

- Michael Bramos: Bramos is a Greek shooting guard who recently finished his senior season at the University of Miami, Ohio. (It was news to me that there were two Miami's. Seems unnecessary.) On offense, he's largely an outside shooter since he can't dribble, but he's not a great shooter, shooting 40% from the field and 36% from the three point line in his senior season. He's pretty athletic and very strong for an off-guard (standing 6'5 and 221, which is pretty freaking heavy for a man that height), and he also has a hell of a wingspan. These reasons and more are why Europe is his inevitable destiny; that and the door-opening Greek passport, obviously.

- Will Bynum: Last year was a strange one for Will Bynum. Michael Curry played him and played him and played him and played him for three months, and he sucked. Then, in March, Bynum somehow broke out. He became able to get to the rim at will, and drained 21 footers like he'd never been able to do. Eventually he became a key contributor for the Pistons, had a 32 point 7 assist game versus Charlotte, and averaged nearly 12 points per game for Detroit in the playoffs. And now Pistons fans are grateful that Bynum's going to be on their roster and earning the minimum salary next year.

- Austin Daye: Detroit bailed out Daye's decision to declare way too early by picking him 15th overall this year, a pick with which I am not overly fond. They clearly see more in this athletic jump shooting specialist than I do. (This is a position that, in the long run, I am willing to modify. I admit that I didn't see a lot of Daye in his college career. But I also didn't see a lot in him, either. Yes, he might be the next poor man's Rudy Gay, but remember something; Rudy Gay isn't that good. And that's why Gay's ass is going to be traded at the deadline.)

(Hehe, "Gay's ass".)

- Ibrahim Jaaber: it's quite the surprise to see Jaaber on here, in amongst the undrafted talent and regurgitated D-League filth that so permeates summer league rosters. Jaaber has become a star in Europe recently; as a starting guard for Lottomatica Roma last season, Jaaber averaged 14.1 points, 2.6 points and 2.5 steals in the Italian league. But clearly the NBA is on his mind, or he wouldn't be going to down the summer league route. He is capable of a way bigger stage and way more money than this. Still, good luck to him. It's the American dream.

Ibrahim Jaaber fact: Ibrahim Jaaber, a Brooklyn native who has never played in Bulgaria, has a Bulgarian passport. So does Olympiakos and former Grizzlies forward Mike Batiste. And Chicago Bulls draft pick Mario Austin was offered one, but gallantly refused it. It all seems a bit illicit, doesn't it?

- Jonas Jerebko: Jerebko was one of twelve small forwards drafted by the Pistons this year, but since they're apparently going to sign Deron Washington to a guaranteed deal (which I'll believe when I see it), then it looks like there's no spot for Jerebko to come over this season, even if Walter Sharpe is dumped. Jerebko averaged 9.1 points and 5.5 rebounds for Angellico Biella last season, but still needs to improve his dribbling and his jumpshot. So keeping him overseas seems like the best thing to do. At least give Dajuan Summers the opportunity to flame out first.

- Dwayne Jones: Considering that the Pistons currently only have Kwame Brown at centre, and that Dwayne Jones is kind of NBA calibre-ish, then you have to think that he has a decent chance of making the roster at some point, unless he completely screws the pooch. Jones played 49 minutes with the Boobcats last year, totalling 12 points, 12 rebounds and 6 fouls, and also played 7 minutes in Turkey, totalling 1 point, 1 rebounds and 3 fouls for Efes Pilsen. He spent most of the season in the D-League, playing for three teams; the Iowa Energy (1 game, 1 point, 1 rebound, 4 fouls), the Idaho Stampede (12 games, averaging 14.3 points, 10.3 rebounds and 1.4 blocks) and the Austin Toros (22 games, 17.2 points, 13.5 rebounds, 1.2 blocks). He's never significantly developed his offense, and is now 26, but he's a good enough player to be in the NBA, and he seems to have picked his summer league team wisely. Good chance here.

- Andre Owens: Owens is a former Jazz and Pacers guard who spent last year as one of the two American imports for Crvena Zvezda, the other one being Lawrence Roberts. Those two were also the two oldest players on the team, as the roster outside of them was made up almost exclusively of Serbian and Bosnian youngsters, most of whom will be draft candidates one day soon. (And some of them, including Nemanja Bjelica and Elmeden Kikanovic, are slated to be second rounders next year. But more on them later.) As the veteran star on the team, a role that he's never had anywhere before, Owens averaged 10.4 points, 3.0 rebounds and 2.4 assists in the Eurocup, doing a little bit of everything and shooting fairly well from outside the arc. But Detroit might not have the room for him.

- Trent Plaisted: Plaisted playsted with Jerebko at Angellico Biella last year, which may explain why Detroit zoned in on JJ so early. However, Trent only played in two games with the team - both in October - before being injured and missing the rest of the season. I don't know what his injury was, because I can't read Italian (although I do know that coglioni = bollocks), but the fact that he was sent overseas for a year and yet missed almost all of the year due to injury would imply that a second year abroad is on the cards.

- Walter Sharpe: Sharpe barely played for the Pistons last year, totalling 20 minutes, yet spent hardly any time in the D-League. When he did finally play in 4 games for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants, he kind of sucked, averaging only 10.8 points and 3.5 rebounds. The Pistons drafted three small forwards last year, which also can't bode well for Sharpe's chances. But his guaranteed contract for next year might be his saviour.

- Dajuan Summers: Pistons GM Joe Dumars almost picked Summers at 15, and was happily surprised when Summers fell to their second pick at #35. Not sure why, though, since the only thing the guy can do is shoot. It's nice to be athletic and strong, like he is, but if you can't/won't penetrate (giggidy), and if you can't/won't play defense, then that's worth a whole lot. Still, Summers has potential, and should make the roster.

- Clay Tucker: Tucker was on the Cavaliers team last year, where he was so keen to demonstrate his scoring ability that he didn't make one single pass. He started last year with BC Kyiv, but left when the team released all of its foreign players due to bankruptcy. He then closed out the year in Spain, where he averaged 17.5 points per game for Cajasol Sevilla. Despite now being 29 and having had several goes at it, Tucker has still never gotten an NBA contract, and this time might not work out either.

- Deron Washington: Washington, supposedly, has a guaranteed contract lined up for next season, which isn't something I'm prepared to believe right now. If he does, though, then that'll be something of a surprise. Washington played in Israel last year, averaging 14.1 points and 7.0 rebounds for Hapoel Holon, but he still can't shoot well, and, given their recent draft which I've kind of overrelied on lately, you can see how Detroit may have had other options at the small forward spot. And Arron Afflalo's presence negates any spot minutes that Washington might have gotten as a big two guard. And that's why I don't really believe it. But I'll report it if it happens.

So Sharpe was a waste of a pick (no surprise to me and others who said so at the time), Deron Washington doesn't deserve a roster spot, Plaisted has done shit...can't wait!

Lol, Sharpe would be more of a PF, I believe... the drafting of so many SF's doesn't hurt him like everyone's making out. That doesn't mean I believe in him as a player, just making a point.

Well, I know a lot of us said he'd never make the switch to SF because he can't shoot.

Kstat said Sharpe was a SF, so u r a liar, DrBaker11

no, I said Dumars drafted him to be one, and if he couldn't play the position then he was done.

Oh well, he was a 2nd rounder anyway.

In hindsight, the money Joe saved by trading out of the first round last year may net us one more nice free agent.

no, I said Dumars drafted him to be one, and if he couldn't play the position then he was done.

Oh well, he was a 2nd rounder anyway.


http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12811


...and if he's really not comfortable yet, then he'll be a stud when he is, because he's already pretty good at it.

Teams are already having trouble dealing with him.

And I was also not "eternally optimistic" about Sharpe when he was drafted. I said I'd wait until I saw him play to judge him.

Sharpe I really like, Plaisted I can't stand and Washignton just plain sucks.

That thread is a fun read if anyone is bored, btw.

taking shit out of context. Nice.

Those were comments from a SUMMER LEAGUE GAME, loser.

I never said Sharpe was going to have that kind of impact on the NBA. I simply said he played well in a SUMMER LEAGUE GAME.

I don't even think he's going to be cut because he lacks talent. I think he;s going to be cut because he lacks a brain.

Read the thread and you'll see exactly who was excited about him and who was not.


In hindsight, the money Joe saved by trading out of the first round last year may net us one more nice free agent.

And yet you'll still defend the pick to this day, company man, lol.

it was a second round pick. there's nothing to defend or attack. 2nd round picks are crapshoots by definition.

By "company man" I guess I don't have an irrational hatred of all things Pistons, nor do i have a desire to bash the hire of a guy that already played a key part in us winning a championship, without even giving him a chance.

Shit, I HATED Curry, and i even gave him a chance.

And yes, if that extra 1+mil Joe saved by trading out of the first round helps us lock up Big Baby (ironically one of the guys he could have picked up in the 2nd round in 2007), then it all comes full circle, and he's fixed his mistake.

Oh well, he was a 2nd rounder anyway.
But aren't we supposed to get stars with every single selection no matter where we pick or else Joe is a failure?

That seems to be the common belief...


I'm so glad we didn't have this board 25 years ago. McClosky would have been run out of town long before the bad boys ever got to the finals. He royally fucked up as many trades and picks as he nailed.

What made him great, and what makes Joe great, is the fact he isnt afraid to make another move to correct a mistake.

it was a second round pick. there's nothing to defend or attack. 2nd round picks are crapshoots by definition.

By "company man" I guess I don't have an irrational hatred of all things Pistons, nor do i have a desire to bash the hire of a guy that already played a key part in us winning a championship, without even giving him a chance.

Shit, I HATED Curry, and i even gave him a chance.

And yes, if that extra 1+mil Joe saved by trading out of the first round helps us lock up Big Baby (ironically one of the guys he could have picked up in the 2nd round in 2007), then it all comes full circle, and he's fixed his mistake.

He was only a second rounder because we traded down. While 2nd rounders are a crap shoot, you can still draft a better player there. Those who opposed him wanted Chalmers remember. I also wanted DeAndre Jordan and would have been fine with CDR. Any of those 3 would have been far better than Sharpe and would be on the team right now for depth.

I agree trading down could prove beneficial, but that doesn't mean he took the right player there. He could have had Sharpe with one of the other 2nd rounders (we've been through this).

Maybe if you stop spit shining 2nd round picks when we draft them, then you won't have your words brought back up when they bust?

Nobody expects 2nd rounders to all pan out, but nobody forced you to defend the pick, either.

He was only a second rounder because we traded down.



You did just knock Plaisted for missing a year. The guy we picked in the 1st and traded also missed the year.

Notes: Transferred from Mississippi State to UAB after his sophomore year. Has struggled with academic issues at both Mississippi State and UAB. Was diagnosed with narcolepsy.

Positives: Long, athletic big man. Explosive leaper. Good mid range shooter. Good ball handler. Can put it on the floor and get to the basket.

Negatives: Has played in just 18 games over the past three years. Very few scouts have solid scouting reports on him.

Summary: Sharpe has some upside and has drawn some interest from teams in the late second round.

You did just knock Plaisted for missing a year. The guy we picked in the 1st and traded also missed the year.

Not a valid point. We made that pick for Seattle (doesn't mean Joe would have taken that player if he kept the pick).


Detroit is selecting White for the Seattle SuperSonics, a Pistons source told me.

the 2nd round is a crapshoot. Every team that picks someone thinks they got a gem. Only a handful are right, and it typically isn't the same teams every year.

Sharpe was the wrong pick, but it could have easily been the right one.

It's like buying a scratch off lottery ticket and then being blamed for buying the wrong one after the fact.

Maybe if you stop spit shining 2nd round picks when we draft them, then you won't have your words brought back up when they bust?

Nobody expects 2nd rounders to all pan out, but nobody forced you to defend the pick, either.

I know. I don't expect all the 2nd rounders to pan out, but you can't miss on every single damn one. We got Memo and that's it. Amir was a solid pick still. Tay was a good first rounder, so was Stuckey. Pretty much the rest of the drafting has sucked ass.

I don't expect perfection, but could we find a gem once and a while?

It's like buying a scratch off lottery ticket and then proclaiming it a winner before you scratch it off, just because someone you really like sold it to you.

Not a valid point. We made that pick for Seattle (doesn't mean Joe would have taken that player if he kept the pick).


A very valid point. Some team which has made some good picks lately wanted him so much more than LaMarcus and Mario that they traded up to get him. He was only a 2nd rounder because talent, the likes of which would have pissed you off, was taken above him.

the 2nd round is a crapshoot. Every team that picks someone thinks they got a gem. Only a handful are right, and it typically isn't the same teams every year.

Sharpe was the wrong pick, but it could have easily been the right one.

It's like buying a scratch off lottery ticket and then being blamed for buying the wrong one after the fact.
Horrible analogy. I suppose if there are 4 other scratch off options that have higher payout odds and you pick the one with worse odds because you think it looks prettier...then you are correct.

except I never said sharpe was a winner. Deal with it.

Horrible analogy. I suppose if there are 4 other scratch off options that have higher payout odds and you pick the one with worse odds...then you are correct.

Sonny Weems had higher payout odds than Mario chalmers according to most. That means shit.

We didn't pick Sonny Weems. How does that matter. Did Sharpe have more upside than those three I mentioned? Was he higher rated (that answer is no by a mile)? Was he a glaring need (no, we could have used a PG or C more than a backup forward when we had Amir and Max).

Either he had more upside than Jordan/Chalmers/CDR or Joe was on some serious drugs.

his upside was very high. He was and is very talented.

His problem is that he continues to be a bad apple, despite his medication. This have very little to do with his talent and a lot to do with the fact he wore out his welcome in record time.

When your affiliated NBDL team wants no part of you, it isn't because you can't play. It's because there are non-basketball issues they can't work with.

In the 2nd round if we get a bench role player, we've beaten the odds and I'm happy with it. If Washington or Summers turn into decent bench guys for us, I'll say Joe did a good job. Sometimes you have to take the guy that just looks like an average/decent pick instead of swinging for the fences and striking out (Sharpe). Sharpe was a sleeper, but not in the sense we hoped.

Afflalo is a good example. He won't be a star, and likely not even an above-average starter at any point. He's going to be a solid defensive guard off the bench. Everyone hated the pick, but it was a successful pick. He had 4 solid years at UCLA and they knew what you were getting.
I wanted them to go for Petteri Koponen, an 18 year old PG who is now averaging less >3points, >1assist, and 30%fg (25%3pt) in Italy or Tiago Splitter, who both had huge upside. Splitter couldn't get out of his old contract that expires in 2010, and there's a big chance he stays in Europe where he'll make 3-4mil a season instead of taking a rookie salary here.

finally, some common sense.

If Dajuan Summers and Jonas Jerebko can't play, then I'll never get excited over a 2nd rounder ever again. But I know for a fact they are both NBA-ready players. These guys are not projects.

I found this, but it only covers the first round:
http://i31.tinypic.com/10qmd06.jpg
http://www.82games.com/barzilai1.htm

Joe's first round picks:
12th - 53% chance, missed
9th - 63% chance, missed
23rd - 29% chance, hit
2nd - 92% chance, missed
25th - 26% chance, missed
26th - 24% chance, did ok
27th - 23% chance, did ok
15th - 45% chance, hit
29th - 21% chance, missed

that's a bad track record. I would expect of the 5 picks in the 20's that only 1 would pan out and 1-2 more become role players. That is exactly what happened so his track record is good there.

The problem is with 4 top 15 picks, we should have hit on 2-3 of those and we only hit on Stuckey.

Yeah, second rounders are a crap shoot. But when you underachieve on first rounders people start to put 2nd rounders under a microscope too.

FWIW, I was pretty adamant about wanting CDR with our 1st round pick, then he slipped past us in the 2nd.

Don't assume we hit on Stuckey just yet. He has to prove himself still. This season should be a good indicator, if he makes strides or stays where he was last season.

Which of those picks is Delfino? I'd classify him as a "did ok", he had the potential to turn into a hit before the knee injury but a fluke injury isn't the GM or scout's fault. That's like saying Len Bias is a blemish on the record of whoever drafted him. No one knew he was going to OD, and you can't say "they should have known he had a drug problem" because half the league did back then.

I would expect of the 5 picks in the 20's that only 1 would pan out and 1-2 more become role players. That is exactly what happened.
==============================================

trouble is "panned out" means "hit" meaning 4 of 5 when he had a 20% chance with each.

That's outstanding.

FWIW, I was pretty adamant about wanting CDR with our 1st round pick, then he slipped past us in the 2nd.


Yeah, I bashed both picks and wanted DeAndre, but I'm over it.

I would expect of the 5 picks in the 20's that only 1 would pan out and 1-2 more become role players. That is exactly what happened.
==============================================

trouble is "panned out" means "hit" meaning 4 of 5 when he had a 20% chance with each.

That's outstanding.
Percent chances on our picks in the 20's:
29, 26, 24, 23, 21

If all are 20 percent we should hit on 1 of the 5. We did that with Tay. I considered all those extra percentages above 20 to equate to expecting 1-2 being role players.

Like I said, Joe did well with the picks in the 20's.

He completely bombed the lotto/near lotto picks. And Zekyl is right, we can't even consider Stuckey a hit yet. I'd bet on it rather than against it, but we don't really know yet.

So hit only equals star? What does hit mean Chris? Give me a borderline example on both sides.

I mean, if the #2 pick hits >90% of the time, explain Darko, Swift, Williams, Bradley, Ferry, Bias, Bowie, Stipanovich, Griffith......?????

finally, some common sense.

If Dajuan Summers and Jonas Jerebko can't play, then I'll never get excited over a 2nd rounder ever again. But I know for a fact they are both NBA-ready players. These guys are not projects.

No you don't.

Thank you.

I mean, if the #2 pick hits >90% of the time, explain Darko, Swift, Williams, Bradley, Ferry, Bias, Bowie, Stipanovich, Griffith......?????
Hmm, after reading it all it isn't saying the chances of a hit. It's the % better than the next pick. So at #2 there is a %90 chance that the player taken there is better than #3.

Not that much different unless both players are busts. Then you had a %90 chance of getting a 'better' bust.

So Joe had a %90 chance of getting a better player than the Nuggs could at #3, and so on.

So in your examples:

Darko vs Melo
Swift vs Miles
Williams vs Dunleavy
Bradley vs Penny
Ferry vs Elliot

and so on.

%90 of the time the #2 pick should be better than the #3 pick.

For the record I don't expect EVERY single draft pick to pan out.

I expect them to take the Best Player Available with every pick.

And on Draft Day every year the majority of this board complain about us not picking Blair, Chalmers, or someone else.

How is it possible that the board as a group can usually pick better players than our scouts and GM?

Does anyone on here work for the team and have access to all the test results the organisation has on these kids? No! Yet every freakin' year we all sit here on Draft Day and beg & plead with Joe to draft Blair, saying "who cares? It's the second round - if he's out of the league in 2 years it doesn't matter".

And what do they do? They let Blair pass. Time will tell if he should have been one of our picks in the second round. And I can imagine ths board in 4 years time - mocking me for pointing out people wanted Blair, using his injuries as a reason Joe passed and all kinds of junk to JUSTIFY our pathetic record on Draft Day.

Let's be honest - I have never pulled a guy out of my butt and held him up and said "Joe should have drafted Random Dude".

Whenever I have taken Joe to task about the Drafting I have always mentioned guys who at the time were viewed as equal or better than the guy we picked.

So, for the FINAL time:

In the Beginning:

2000 = Mateen - why did Joe draft him? Why did our scouts think he was the BPA? Or was he drafted to fill a need? Why was he drafted to fill a need when our team was so poor?

Players we missed: Morris Peterson, Jamaal Magloire, Des Mason, Q Richardson and I can't remember the hype on Turkoglu

2001 = Rodney White - people everywhere had him projected as a top talent, a guy that was the next Big Dog, who could put points on the board. How did our scouts get it so wrong? How did they not see he had no heart, no mental toughness, no guts?

Players we missed: Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy and Zach Randolph all were pretty well hyped at the time too.

2002 Joe landed Prince - Blind Squirrel meet your nut

Based on his first 3 Drafts I'd say Joe finally learnt to take the BPA with "proven" skills that translate into the NBA.

Cleaves had no jumpshot, White was all about potential - Prince was proven.

2003 = Darko fiasco. My ONLY deal with the pick is how come it became an epic failure? He's never done anything in the league (still) and has been in a few different places now too. Why did no one see he was crap when Bosh was there?

Player Missed: Bosh - we went big because of "equal" talent. Don't bring that Wade/Melo stuff in here.

Also in 2003 we had Delfino. All those that oppose my view here always claim no one saw his injuries coming. Really? He fell to us because of his injuries. Go to RGM and look it up. It was widely known the guy had injury concerns. The dude had skills but why pick a guy with injury issues? Why not pick a guy like Josh Howard?

After the success of Prince one would assume Howard would be a lock.

Players missed: Josh Howard, Jason Kapono, Luke Walton, were all "known" or hyped.

2004 - no first rounder and then picked at #54 - why bother?

2005 - The Maxiell Madness - here we have a team coming towards the end of their run and we take a career bench player? David Lee rocked the Chi-Town Camp and we passed on him.

Players Missed: Our favourite free agents: Lee and Bass, Salim Stoudemire or if you wanna swing for the fences you can go CJ Miles, Monta Ellis, Roko Ukic, Louis Williams.

Hell, when we got Amir I thought it was a blessing.

2006 = we picked 60th so who cares.

It's too soon to label 2007 or 2008 a success or failure but the rest of them (except Prince, Memo and Amir) are clear cut HUGE mistakes.

And the majority of these picks were made while we were a legit contender to the title!! Imagine how different things could be.

And no, I'm not stupid enough to assume DYNASTY but another title? Sure - that's possible. Hell, we nearly did that while suffering from Joe's complete and utter disregard for the Draft.

Thank God he does dump his mistakes early, and has (it seems) mostly changed his ways on Draft Day. Time will tell but the last 3 Drafts give me hope.

2005 - The Maxiell Madness - here we have a team coming towards the end of their run and we take a career bench player? David Lee rocked the Chi-Town Camp and we passed on him.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Chicago-Pre-Draft-Camp,-Day-Two-202/
Here's a review of Maxiell from the Chi-Town camp in question:


Jason Maxiell: 8 points, 3/8 shooting, 3 rebounds, 2 blocks – Maxiell continues to impress, succeeding in spite of all the “undersized PF” clichés. He is an athletic marvel, strong as an ox, and shockingly athletic for a player as thick as he is. He creates more than enough space to get his shot off by getting very low on his post ups, and continues to show off regular highlight plays thanks to a freakish 7-foot-2 wingspan. Players his size simply shouldn’t be able to explode the way that Maxiell does. While he didn’t put up the type of stat line that he is capable of in the game, Maxiell was dominant in the individual post drills.

And here's David Lee:


David Lee: 12 points, 4/7 shooting, 5 rebounds – Lee had a quiet but effective showing in his first game at Chicago – especially in the second half. He displayed some unique finesse-type skills for a power forward. He shows dynamite quickness, smooth passing, and soft touch around the basket. While Lee probably didn’t dominate the way a player of his billing might be expected to at this camp, this probably had more to do with his lack of touches and the style of play than anything that would reflect poorly on Lee. We feel that more impressive statistical performances could be in store for David Lee. One play of note took place in the 2-on-2 drills, where he put down a spectacular reverse dunk from the baseline over Ellis Myles.

You point out the guys we missed in 2001 right after saying that people everywhere projected White as a top talent. People everywhere means not just our staff. Joe can't be faulted for that one. White was actually supposed to be off the board when we picked.

I wanted Jefferson at the time. I had no idea who Rodney White was.

In the Darko year, he was the big name. People were all about Darko, not just the Pistons staff. Bosh was rated no where near a top-3 talent in that draft by anyone. It was James #1, the 2nd tier was Anthony and Milicic with Wade just barely below them and Bosh was rated below those 4 by everyone. You can't blame us for taking the guy rated as a top-3 talent by the entire league over someone else unless you're basing it on their production since then.

I still contend that Darko would have been a decent PF if he'd been drafted by a team that would have handed him 15-20 mpg as a rookie and developed his face-up game instead of trying to make him play with his back to the basket. Who we SHOULD have drafted? It's not Bosh, although that's always the comparison. We should have drafted Wade. (That really hurt to say)

I was excited when we picked Max. I didn't know much about him when we made the pick, but I read up on him after and he was a perfect fit for the Pistons team we had at the time. He could still develop into what we saw flashes of two years ago, and I'm not ready to dump him off just yet. If we don't sign Brandon Bass, I'd rather keep Max. Give him a chance with a consistent 20 mpg and a real coach, then judge him. He's willing to post up and he's developed a nice midrange J. He hustles his butt off and he's a hard worker. Was he as good as a couple of players taken after him? No. Was he better than players taken before him? Yes. He was a solid pick where we got him.

Come on, P.....


mocking me for pointing out people wanted Blair, using his injuries as a reason Joe passed


He fell to us because of his injuries. Go to RGM and look it up. It was widely known the guy had injury concerns. The dude had skills but why pick a guy with injury issues?

It's one or the other. You can't blame Joe for taking Delfino because he had injury concerns and say he's terrible at drafting, then blame Joe for passing on a guy with injury concerns to say he's terrible at drafting. That's ignorant.

Zek coming strong

Come on, P.....





It's one or the other. You can't blame Joe for taking Delfino because he had injury concerns and say he's terrible at drafting, then blame Joe for passing on a guy with injury concerns to say he's terrible at drafting. That's ignorant.

Actually there is a big difference. Delfino went in the first EARLIER than expected and Blair went in the second round much LATER than expected. Usually a good GM gambles on the latter.

I'm pretty sure Delfino was supposed to be a lottery pick. I remember Dumars getting a lot of credit after that draft because Delfino was possibly going top 10.

Ford's Take: The Pistons pegged Delfino very early in the draft process. They spent all day trying to trade up to get him, now he falls right into their lap. He could be the steal of the draft. In a recent workout in Detroit, he wowed them with his toughness and shooting ability. He reminds me of Michael Finley. He'll contribute right away if he stays over here. Or, he could play in Italy one more year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1572845

Welcome Travis Walton to the squad!

I had fino going to Detroit in my mock that year, hoping he would fall thanks to injury.

Welcome Travis Walton to the squad!
Seriously? With Gray and Walton, maybe this coach hiring will last only a few days before the inevitable happens....






cue the picture of the VW bus and the fat girls

I'm gonna do this one at a time.

Mxy: Please post the rest on the stuff from that Chicago Pre-Draft camp. I'm sure there is more interesting stuff ...

The stuff you did post doesn't really make a difference. Lee and Maxiell both played well. Both showed their skills.

The only negative comment about Lee was:


While Lee probably didn’t dominate the way a player of his billing might be expected to at this camp, this probably had more to do with his lack of touches and the style of play than anything that would reflect poorly on Lee.

and the article says it's probably due to a lack of touches/style of play.

So why bother posting that stuff at all?

Zekyl -
You point out the guys we missed in 2001 right after saying that people everywhere projected White as a top talent. People everywhere means not just our staff. Joe can't be faulted for that one. White was actually supposed to be off the board when we picked.

So we can't fault our scouts for following popular opinion and missing studs like Joe Johnson and Richard Jefferson so they could draft Rodney White?

What?

It's their job to see through the hype, to see what a player has inside them and to develop the skills they have.

White had all the tools but lacked the mindset needed to succeed in the NBA. How did our organisation not see it? Why didn't they see that Joe Johnson or Richard Jefferson did have the mental toughness and determination to excel in the NBA?

Those questions need to be asked because they miss studs to draft mental midgets far too often.


In the Darko year, he was the big name. People were all about Darko, not just the Pistons staff. Bosh was rated no where near a top-3 talent in that draft by anyone. It was James #1, the 2nd tier was Anthony and Milicic with Wade just barely below them and Bosh was rated below those 4 by everyone. You can't blame us for taking the guy rated as a top-3 talent by the entire league over someone else unless you're basing it on their production since then.

Darko is in the same boat as White - all the tools but lacked the mental toughness or maturity to succeed. Yes, he was 18 but it's not like they didn't know that at the time.

And Bosh was rated below Wade? Who got drafted #4? It wasn't Wade so obvious someone (Toronto) thought Bosh was gonna be pretty good.

And someone in Detroit thought Bosh was gonna be pretty good too, otherwise they wouldn't have brought him back so close to the Draft for another workout.


I was excited when we picked Max. I didn't know much about him when we made the pick, but I read up on him after and he was a perfect fit for the Pistons team we had at the time. He could still develop into what we saw flashes of two years ago, and I'm not ready to dump him off just yet. If we don't sign Brandon Bass, I'd rather keep Max. Give him a chance with a consistent 20 mpg and a real coach, then judge him. He's willing to post up and he's developed a nice midrange J. He hustles his butt off and he's a hard worker. Was he as good as a couple of players taken after him? No. Was he better than players taken before him? Yes. He was a solid pick where we got him.

You'd rather have Bass right now instead of Max though. And you'd rather have David Lee than Max too.

Both Lee and Bass were drafted after Maxiell! We could have had 1 of them!

The fact is that Joe has drafted mental midgets, career bench players and a mixture of crap. The ONLY excuse people give for it is that a certain player was hyped at the time.

No offense - but fuck off with that shit.

Just because a choice is popular doesn't make it the right one. Do your own research. Decide what is right for you. And then do it.

I'm lucky - ain't no one posting about my dumbass choices when I was younger (except for me).

But I ain't GM of a multi-million dollar basketball team. When Joe makes a draft pick or a free agent signing then he's on the hook for it. When you fuck up on Draft Day as often as he has then something needs to be said. And I can't believe that on this site I have to defend my opinion.

We've got the best and brightest and y'all can't see that Joe is crap when it comes to the Draft! Why? I love the guy as much as the next fan but I'm not gonna pretend he's good at something when all the evidence points to him being freakin' pathetic.

Is it so hard for some of y'all to admit he's crap at 1 aspect of his job?

Come on, P.....

It's one or the other. You can't blame Joe for taking Delfino because he had injury concerns and say he's terrible at drafting, then blame Joe for passing on a guy with injury concerns to say he's terrible at drafting. That's ignorant.


Ignorant?

Slow your roll, Z.

Drafting a dude with injury issues in the first round is completely different than taking a guy with injury issues in the 2nd round.

Do the words guaranteed money mean anything to you?

And if the injuries were the only problem with Delfino then maybe I'd let it slide. But the guy is not and was not the player Josh Howard is/was.

I can't believe that after Tayshaun showed what he could do that we went and passed on a dude from the same freakin' mold.

But it's cool - give Joe another free pass.

MoTown/Fool - I refer you to post #81 from Hermy.

Sweet - all done.

Now who's up for round 2?

Ain't no one gonna defend Mateen? Didn't we draft the worst Michigan dude available (Mo Pete was there) because we needed a PG in the event Grant Hill bolted?

And for the record: that is the dumbest excuse someone has ever given for a failed draft pick.

I've always considered Mateen a "marketing"pick.

Those were dark days, he was extremely popular in the area, and they needed to fill the building.

I'm sure they had him rated in the first round somewhere, but they got greedy and decided to move him up, IMO.

My memory is fading in old age but here's the obvious questions:

Was Mo Pete that unpopular?

The guy has gone on to have a rather boring career - but he actually had a career. Cleaves had no chance cause he had no jumpshot.

Wouldn't drafting a good player actually be a good marketing tool? I know we were first round losers every year and expected to lose Hill but if we drafted someone good would fans have been more pissed?

I'm gonna do this one at a time.

Mxy: Please post the rest on the stuff from that Chicago Pre-Draft camp. I'm sure there is more interesting stuff ...

The stuff you did post doesn't really make a difference. Lee and Maxiell both played well. Both showed their skills.
I'd already put the link to the rest of the Pre-Draft reviews from Draftexpress in the post you responded to. But here it is again:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Chicago-Pre-Draft-Camp,-Day-Two-202/

And as for "doesn't really make a difference", that's exactly my point! Both were outstanding in camp, and there was no clear difference in their camp performance. Your saying "David Lee rocked the Chi-Town Camp and we passed on him." is just plain silly. It's sorta like faulting some boss for not hiring the kid who got straight As, when the other kid they hired also got straight As.

FWIW, the issue in evaluating Lee and Maxiell turns out to be the same -- their position in college isn't their position in the NBA. Both were in lesser undersized programs and played C at their colleges, when they were PF/SF tweeners at the NBA level.

Yeah, caught that I said that about Wade too late, couldn't edit the post. My fault.

From that DraftExpress link:


Will Bynum: 12 points, 4/5 shooting, 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 turnovers – Bynum was a last minute addition to the camp, but clearly proved that he belonged in Chicago. Bynum helped himself about as much as he could today, considering he’s a 5-10 combo guard. He provided most of the highlights in the first game, displaying stunning athleticism, bullish strength, creative ballhandling, and a motor that doesn’t stop. Bynum was excellent in transition, either finishing at the rim or finding the open man. He brought down the house with an impressive dunk right at the final horn, and we are seeing more and more of Nate Robinson in his game.

And I'm not saying Joe is "following the hype" or whatever when he makes these picks. I'm saying that obviously the guys are looking pretty good to all the scouts and making a solid impression if everyone is seeing the same thing. Joe isn't listening to what other team's are thinking of a player. He's listening to our scouts. Our scouts are seeing the same things that everyone else is, because our scouts are watching the same workouts and drills and getting the same interviews. Not saying we're follow the trends, just that we get the same reads as everyone else.

I don't think they do the same psych makeup in the NBA that they do in the NFL. They're all about that stuff at the NFL combine, but I've never heard anything about it for the NBA.

I'm not giving him a free pass at all. He's screwed up some picks and missed on some obvious talents. No way in hell we shouldn't have taken Chalmers over Sharpe. No way we should have taken Cleeves period. I didn't even realize that was the Mo Pete draft, I remember wanting us to grab Peterson pretty badly.

Mxy - my bad for missing the link. I had so many to read I didn't even notice it.

I see your point on the "2 quality guys" thing but here's my take:

One is undersized for the PF position. One isn't. Both seem to be really talented, driven, quality character guys.

Who do you draft?

I'll take the one not undersized.

Obviously there was something they saw in Max that convinced them (his Piston DNA).

And I didn't agree with their choice then and history has proven that Max was not the right choice.

Z - I understand that our scouts are seeing exactly what other scouts see.

What I wanna know is what are we doing as an organisation to seperate ourselves from the pack and give us an advantage when it comes to the Draft?

Are we just following the same old, same old? Or are they doing something new with stats and/or psyche tests.

I can't think of anything else they could do right now but it's after midnight and my brain is fried from working all week.

Who do you draft?



The black guy.

The black guy.

. (http://www.sadtrombone.com/)

So, :we:'re playing the Kings today at 6 pm EST

http://www.nba.com/summerleague2009/schedules/index.jsp

Broadcast? Gamethread? Langlois?

Broadcast? Gamethread? Unintentional Comedy?
Fixed

From NBA.com

LAS VEGAS -- The Pistons are a proud franchise. They’ve tasted the ultimate success and expect to be among the league’s best every year.

Being down isn’t a position Joe Dumars enjoys.

As one might expect, Detroit’s president is in rebuild hyperdrive. He’s hired another new coach (John Kuester), signed two coveted free agents (Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva) and is overseeing an infusion of youth into the roster.

The NBA Summer League team features four rookies expected to be on the roster once the season rolls around. First-round pick Austin Daye (No. 15) is joined by second rounders DaJuan Summers, Jonas Jerebko and Deron Washington, who was drafted last year and spent the season in Greece.

“We’re trying to get young, versatile athletes and that’s what you’re seeing with these four guys,” Dumars said Saturday. “We feel like we can put them out there and they can all play two or three different positions, and that’s the direction we’re going in.”

All four starred in an 91-87 victory over Toronto at the COX Center. They each scored in double figures, combining for 63 points and 27 rebounds as Detroit improved to 2-0. None logged less than 27 minutes.

But unlike the other three, Daye didn’t get a breather. The wiry 6-11 forward played the entire game, all 40 minutes, scoring 19 and adding a team-high eight boards.

By the time he emerged from the curtain-draped makeshift locker room next to the stands after the game, Daye caught his breath. He knows those type of minutes likely won’t come during the regular season, so he’s taking advantage of it now.

“I don’t want to give myself crazy expectations and just kill myself trying to get there,” the 21-year-old from Gonzaga said. “My main goal going in is just to get better no matter what. I don’t care about playing 20 or 30 minutes a game. If I can get in some games and get better in practice, I’m going to be happy.”

Washington wowed the lively crowd with several high-flying feats. The 6-7 swingman nearly tore the rim down a couple of times on his way to 13 points and added six rebounds in 31 minutes. Washington also took part in a spirited duel with Raptors guard Quincy Douby throughout the contest.

Jerebko had 12 points and seven boards, splitting time between center and power forward. Summer League coach Darrell Walker has been impressed with the ability of the 6-10 rookie from Sweden to play both frontcourt spots.

“He’s just a solid basketball player,” Walker said. “He has a skill level that a lot of guys take two or three years to have.”

Summers followed up Friday’s 24-point effort with 19 and six rebounds. In addition to the work the 6-8 forward did in the paint, Summers has shown an ability to step out to the 3-point line. He’s hit 2-of-5 from downtown through two games.

“They all have good hands,” Walker said. “They all can run. The two fours [Summers and Jerebko] can flat out shoot the basketball.”

Just because the Pistons are in transition coming off a 39-43 season doesn’t mean these four rookies will be thrown into the fire. If the current roster remains intact, which is not a given, the four rookies will be competing for minutes behind a number of veterans.

“We still have guys in front of them like [Tayshaun] Prince and Rip Hamilton and Villanueva, so it’s not like we have to throw them out there with a bunch of young guys,” Dumars said. “We feel good about how we can bring them along. We have some good players in front of them.”

I smell the lottery.

You need a new nose.

As currently constructed, this team is worse than last year's team, IMO. Obviously, you think they're already a playoff team, but if it wasn't you saying this, I would ask how one could possibly be so optimistic.

I don't think Joe is done, by any means, but Chris Wilcox is not going to cut it.

I don't think Joe is done, by any means, but Chris Wilcox is not going to cut it.
Please tell me this isn't a rumor, but just an example.

It's an example.

He's my poster boy for "affordable, non-difference making big man".

He can come in and fill 15-18 mins a game and be a difference on the offensive end. Can't defend well, but he can score and he's cheap.

He can come in and fill 15-18 mins a game and be a difference on the offensive end. Can't defend well, but he can score and he's cheap.
Aren't you petitioning for defense right now?

Did anyone else know that there's a Summer League team called NBA D-League Select?

Aren't you petitioning for defense right now?


In the starting lineup, yes.

Did anyone else know that there's a Summer League team called NBA D-League Select?

It's basically a team of D-League "All Stars" that have no affiliation with an NBA team.

10 pm game tonight. Hopefully another link on justin tv that I can watch...

I smell the lottery.
Frankly, if it was the difference between a first-round exit and picking higher by either a few (or in the case of a top 3 pick) or more spots I would take it. Yes, I would love a championship every year, but this team isn't going to get it. They are not contenders, but they have championship pieces. So if a season of missing the playoffs while these pieces learn to work together is the difference between drafting DeMarcus Cousins or drafting Dexter Pittman, I'll take Cousins. Actually, I would love to draft a combination of Cousins and Jerome Jordan. It gives some size and athleticism with good defense.

This upcoming draft is suppose to be pretty strrong too, but tanking?

that ruins the reputation/image of the Pistons imo. This team shouldn't be tanking on purpose imo. Yeah were going to lose a few more games...but no need to just not give a shit. Not saying thats what you mean Jethro

Right, I'm not suggesting tanking by any means. I obviously want to see a team working hard and having fun. But if they lost a number of hard fought games 110-103, I won't have as much difficulty swallowing that pill when they finish 33-49 and get the 9th pick, instead of finishing with 39 wins and the 14th pick.
Remember, Toronto had 33 wins this past season. If they weren't located in Toronto they might be in a decent situation moving forward. If they can find a way to convince Bosh to re-sign and play along with Turk and DeRozan, Bargnani and Calderon - they'll be alright.

We don't have to worry about tanking. We are lottery bound regardless right now. With Kwame starting at C, no real PG and no defense, I don't see us winning more than 30 games right now. I might feel differently after another deal or two but the odds are stacked against us.

dooooooooooooooooomed!

End of game 4 from David Thorpe twitter:

coachthorpe: DeJuan Summers has 25. Scouts are buzzing about what a nice pickup he is for Detroit.

Kstat must have been busy today

http://www.nba.com/summerleague2009/games/boxscore.jsp?gameId=1520900025

and another write up:

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/07/las_vegas_the_detroit.html

austin daye interview:

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2009/07/15/nba_20090715_austin_daye_intv.nba/

dooooooooooooooooomed!

I find your arrogance annoying.

People are damn worried that their beloved Pistons are gonna get out muscled in the paint all season long and all you can post is "Off-season isn't over", "doomed" and that kind of crap.

Who exactly is available to us - via free agency or trade - that can solve the problems up front?

Bringing in Boozer, Ben, Wilcox, Rasho, Gooden or Big Baby doesn't solve our problems at C/PF.

Even if one believes it's "OK" for Joe to sign a "place holder" for a season or 2 one must acknowledge that during that time this team is gonna get slaughtered inside.

Some might be happy to take their lumps now in the hope of a big reward down the road. Some are not.

At least give a thought to the die-hards out there that are struggling to accept the fact we're no longer title contenders. After all these years of ruling the East (or close to it) it's hitting home that the immediate future ain't that bright and you don't need to wear shades

GRIFFIN DOMINATES THABEET

It was No. 1 vs. No. 2. And it was no contest.

Power forward Blake Griffin, taken with the No. 1 pick in last month's draft by the Los Angeles Clippers, met up Thursday with Memphis, featuring No. 2 pick Hasheem Thabeet, a center. It was no surprise Griffin fared much better than Thabeet, perhaps the biggest underachiever of the NBA Summer League.

In the Grizzlies' 85-68 win, Griffin scored 18 points and grabbed 15 rebounds. Thabeet shot an embarrassing 1-of-3, not making his first basket until 30 seconds were left in the game, and finished with seven points, three rebounds and seven fouls (players can't foul out).

It wasn't a surprise there was such a big difference in how the two looked. In his first three games, Griffin is averaging 20.3 points and 12.0 rebounds while Thabeet is averaging just 7.3 points and 3.7 rebounds in his first three.

Hall of Famer Walt Frazier, an analyst for MSG, came away very underwhelmed while watching Thabeet earlier in the week.

"Thabeet didn't really impress me," Frazier said. "He wasn't very assertive."

Anthony Morrow also scored 47 points yesterday vs. the Hornets.

Summer league, where defense is the #1 priority.

are Daye and Summer in Thorpe's top 10? someone got insider?

Top rookie performers in summer league
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-090717&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dthorpe_ david%26page%3dRookies-090717

Posted you know where.

WE PLAY THE CAVS TODAY

Maybe Kuester can give us some insider tips on how to beat them...

are Daye and Summer in Thorpe's top 10? someone got insider?

Top rookie performers in summer league
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-090717&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dthorpe_ david%26page%3dRookies-090717


actually he pegged them both as surefire locks to be HOFers:

7. DaJuan Summers, Pistons
He is sneaky good and played intelligently all week. He was outstanding in three of his four games in Vegas, where he wasn't focused just on scoring.

8. Austin Daye, Pistons
It's fair to suggest that Joe Dumars had an excellent draft. Daye is talented, as everyone knew, but he's also tougher than he looks. His biggest problem -- turnovers -- is mostly a result of his lack of strength. But when he gets bigger, watch out.



lol- no but seriously it's nice to see them getting some recognition. but they've got a long way to go and prove themselves in games that matter. but i do like what i've seen so far. mostly.

Daye would have been #1 but his lack of strength kept him from dribbling the ball correctly or something.

Maybe they filled the ball with a heavier gas?

Pistons 31, Cavs 18. Austin Daye has 8 pts to lead all scorers.

Detroit shot 12-for-17 (70.6 pct) as a team

http://www.nba.com/summerleague2009/games/boxscore.jsp?gameId=1520900037

We win.

Was too busy with work shit, didn't have a chance to watch.... looks like Summers had a shit game.

10 PF in 30 minutes!

don't try to steal his moment. i'm proud of summers: another double-double baby!

real nice game for daye. a double-double of his own but the better kind: 20 points and 10 boards.

washington 4 of 4 FTs which is an absolutely AMAZING streak.....for him

jerebko had a real nice game. got to the line a lot. pargo played pretty well too. he's my sleeper for camp...

this was sweet, sweet revenge on the cavs and more than makes up for being swept in april.

I want to know the real measurables of Jerebko. I've heard everywhere from 6'8" to 6'10". Joe said they viewed him as more of a PF than a SF after the draft, so I'm curious.

Most places seem to have him listed at 6'9"-210 right now.
The DraftExpress interview with him mentions that he was up to 225 at the time.
Wikipedia has him listed at 6'10" 232lbs.
NBADraft.net has him at 6'9" 220lbs.
ESPN said he was 6'8" 231lbs when we selected him, which is what his Italian team listed him as.

They measure these guys before the draft, it's got to be out there.


Edit: Figures, he wasn't measured at the Reebok Eurocamp
http://www.nbadraft.net/node/6824

This is just sad: (http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/07/former_piston_amir_johnson_loo.html)


Players are allowed to pick up 10 personal fouls in summer league games (compared to six for NBA games) before they foul out of a game. [Amir] Johnson averaged 6.8 personal fouls in Milwaukee's five summer league games.

Well it looks like we dumped him at just the right time then. He's got a ton of athleticism and potential, but if he can't stop fouling, he's never going to stay in the league.

He'll stay in the league - he'll just be one of those energy bench type players.

GM's will give him a thousand chances to "realise" his potential.

Have we successfully developed any big-man talent of late?

The last I can think of is Memo, and he was a pro for 5-6 years in Turkey before coming over.

Can we claim development of Ben?

In all seriousness, it's sort of a toss up.
Max may still pan out (4 year college player), he's been inconsistent but he can be a solid role player.
We didn't develop Darko (18) or Amir (18), both of which had huge upside/potential.
Before that it was Memo, who turned out pretty well (4-5 years of professional experience overseas).

So we shouldn't draft guys that aren't a bit seasoned. Maybe shoot for junior/senior bigs only?

That's pretty much it unless you want to go back to the mid-90s.
Scott Pollard was traded for Laettner after 1 season, so we never had a chance to develop him.
Jerome Williams, the Junkyard Dog, was a hardcore hustle player that turned out pretty well IMO. We ended up trading him for Corliss, but everyone loved the JYD. I forgot how great he was off the bench. That's what I wanted Max to become (there's still hope).
Theo Ratliff was well into his development when we traded him for Stackhouse. He was putting up two and a half blocks a game in under 25 minutes.

I wouldn't say we have a history of not developing big-man talent. Even as of late, we're potentially 2 for 4. When we drafted Max, everyone knew he was going to top out as a solid bench player, so if that's where he ends up, that's not under-developing him.

SUMMER LEAGUE PERS!!!!

http://www.raptorblog.com/090722a.php