A tradition unlike any other.

Re-draft for Joe, go!

So who wants to go first?

You're thread - you go first.

I'll go last since I'm the guy that bashes Joe's Drafting the Most.

I was looking at Holiday at #15, until I saw who he was compared to, lol

http://draftday.nbadraft.net/players/jrue-holiday

We already have a "PG" on our squad that the same site compares to FM, so I'll have to reconsider.

Keeping in mind that I am not a college ball guy...

#15 Eric Maynor (2nd choice- James Johnson)
#35 DaJuan Summers (2nd choice- Sam Young)
#39 Chase Budinger (and keep him)
#44 Goran Suton (let him try to make the team and if he can't, send him to Europe)

edit- I would have gone with Lawson at #15 if we didn't already have Bynum. Can't have two short PGs.

First of all, I would have taken ther Kings offer of their #23 & #31 for our #15. Then I would have taken:

#23 - Mullins
#31 - Blair
#35 - Summers
#39 - Jerebko
#44 - Budinger

#15-trade for future pick

Rest of them-who cares, some euro, whatever.

This draft was garbage. Sorry to see them make a pick and lose out on a million dollars in space.

I would have taken Johnson at #15, Blair at #34, Summers at #39, and budinger at #44.

#15-trade for future pick

Rest of them-who cares, some euro, whatever.

This draft was garbage. Sorry to see them make a pick and lose out on a million dollars in space.
well, if that's your opinion, then Joe did pretty well. At least he swing for the fences with the best pure shooter in the draft, outside of Curry.

I'm cool with the Johnson suggestions, I just don't think Blair is anything but a role player. He'll help out SA a lot because they are thin up front, but he wouldn't do us any good unless we moved Max.

Keeping in mind that I am not a college ball guy...

#15 Eric Maynor (2nd choice- James Johnson)
#35 DaJuan Summers (2nd choice- Sam Young)
#39 Chase Budinger (and keep him)
#44 Goran Suton (let him try to make the team and if he can't, send him to Europe)

edit- I would have gone with Lawson at #15 if we didn't already have Bynum. Can't have two short PGs.

I agree with Glenn on this. Maynor, in my opinion, was the second best point guard in the draft after Rubio. He's a true point guard and a leader and an absolute winner. He makes his best plays and decisions when the game is on the line and usually wins the game as he has been doing it since he set foot on the floor at VCU. Do yourself a favor and do an Eric Maynor search on google along with a few key words like george mason and duke and you'll see how this kid wins ball games as he's done his entire career.

He's basically everything Rodney Stuckey isn't in terms of leadership, instincts and simply being a winner.

Instead we drafted Austin Daye who will never be able to defend anyone in this league but hey, at least he can hit a jump shot.

well, if that's your opinion, then Joe did pretty well. At least he swing for the fences with the best pure shooter in the draft, outside of Curry.
my opinion is it didn't matter who he took, and I'm going to do pretty well by not talking about it anymore.

If you sit out of this thread, you miss out on years of "I told you so's" (CHALMERS). If you're play along and you're wrong, nobody remembers.

This is a must play.

The pistons should've taken the best player 5 years down the road available at each pick. how's that for "i told you so" gl'enn

Pharaoh will like it.

So many of my picks would be conditional -- "if we're gonna get rid of/acquire so-and-so". So, for example, James Johnson would be great, IF we intended to ditch Maxiell. I was hoping that we'd use our picks in conjunction with trades and deals, really.

Gotta get those free agents first, though, right?

So many of my picks would be conditional -- "if we're gonna get rid of/acquire so-and-so".
This is spot-on. Everyone's opinion seems to be "this would have been the guy to pick IF..." Well, we have Maxiell, Tay, Stuckey, Rip. So based on that, we drafted a guy that can be a scoring SF off the bench for now and could potentially develop into a nice player.

We did exactly what everyone's been clamoring for us to do for the last 3 seasons. We got a backup for Tay. Tayshaun is a defensive-minded player and he does a solid job of it. We always wanted an offensive backup that we could bring it for offense, and as far as I can tell that's what Daye is going to be for now. He's going to take his welts and learn the NBA, he's not going to look pretty doing it, but he's an offensive-minded player first and foremost.

We'll just have to wait and see.

If you subscribe to the "take the best player available" theory, then upcoming moves hold no bearing.

#15 Jrue Holiday or Maynor, probably Holiday though
#35 Sam Young
#39 Jonas
#44 Danny Green

Hey, Glenn - go fuck yourself.

In my defense I only ever bring up players that were known or thought to be better at the time.

My picks?

Trade all 4 picks for future picks

I'll wait a few years.

#15 johnson PF/some SF
#35 blair PF a little bit of C
#39 summers SF- narrowly wins out over jerebko simply in a coin flip
#44 nando de colo PG

ask me again in 5 minutes and i'd probably do it different again!

scenario 2:

trade rip to the wizards for the #5 and a contract (young?). if it doesn't work under the cap, fuck you. it's my turn to have fun with this.

trade down from #5 with the knicks for #8 & #29. (which they hadn't officially acquired yet, but again- fuck off)

#8- terrance williams SF
#15 johnson PF/SF
#29- toney douglas PG/SG (our eddie house, gunner off the bench)
#35- blair PF
#39 jerebko SF
#44 Goran Suton- i called for him for our last pick as a nice player to stash overseas.

FA and trade market...? trade prince for kaman, sign gordon & gortat.

stuckey
gordon
williams
blair
kaman
bynum
young
jerebko
johnson
gortat
j-max
douglas
washington
sharpe
big man

who the fuck knows. i'm just having fun.

I'm with Chris on Blair: He was a great college player, but how many undersized, overweight centers have succeeded in the NBA? There's a reason he dropped to where he did.

I'm with Chris on Blair: He was a great college player, but how many undersized, overweight centers have succeeded in the NBA? There's a reason he dropped to where he did.

I agree but with him available in the 2nd with the fact that Joe has a history of grabbing projects or question mark players, it's disappointing that we didn't get him. The value was there and if we didn't play him, he had good trade value. Going into the draft Joe said that he would take the best player available. Blair was that player yet he passed on him.

The second rounders mean squat to me and while I didn't want Blair I didn't think of drafting him and trading him.

Maybe he would have been a nice addition to a later trade?

And yeah, Joe lied... IF you believe that Blair was the best player available. Let's not forget he does have serious question marks over his knees. I'm sure if Arnie thought it wasn't a big deal Blair would be a Piston.

Blair isn't though, so maybe Joe and Arnie think it's a real serious problem

I think his knees would have killed his trade value.

I'm talking about him being part of a package Kstat.

Like if we traded for David West, giving them Rip and Blair instead of us having to take back a lot of shitty contracts?

Maybe I overvalue Blair? Everyone seems stunned he dropped so low. As a throw in for a trade he must have had some value, surely?

I think he's going to have to prove he can get up and down the floor in the NBA, before he starts to have any real trade value, even as a throw-in.

Budinger was arguably a bigger steal than Blair at #44, and all we could get for him was a future 2nd rounder.

#15 - Maynor, with Lawson as 2nd choice. We saw the 3 guard lineup last year and the league is getting smaller at guard. These two are floor leaders you can build around. Nobody plays 48 mintues.

#35 - Blair. For years people on this forum have complained about the interior being weak - how we needed a strong body in the middle who could rebound. Blair is that guy. He's not just another Max. He's a Max with longer arms and FAR better rebounding skills. His knees were never a rpoblem in college, AT ALL, so who is the rest of the world to suggest that all of a sudden they will be?

#39 - Budinger. They need someone in the draft who can shoot. The 2nd most often heard thing on this forum is how there's no one on the bench who can replace Rip.

#44 - Dionte Christmas. The best scorer nobody knows about. His percentage isn't anything to write home about, but he's instant offense. I think he's going to play summer league with the Sixers. Look for some strong numbers.

LOL

We HAD Budinger at #44, and you're suggesting we should have used a higher pick on him?

Christmas went undrafted. You think we should have taken him at 39? Yes, that's 5 spots up for Budinger, but it's still lower than he was expected to go. I simply don't like any of the picks between 39 and 44. Relax.

Nice re-read.

I was scanning to see who all liked Lawson at #15.

He's playing really well.

I guess I didn't have much to say in this thread. I think I put my comments in the pick by pick thread. I did like Lawson a lot (I liked that the Nuggets took him).

Looking back on it I still woulda traded all the picks, even though Joe actually drafted pretty well.

The entire off-season did not go according to any fucking plan I had - and I posted heaps of ideas.

But whatever - Joe can save the day by dealing a combo of Prince, Kwame, Daye, Summers, Wilcox, Atkins, our 2010 first rounder for a quality big

I would have liked to keep Budinger, maybe package him in a deal later- other than that, I don't have much in the form of complaints on this draft.

I didn't like Blair's knee history in the first, but he would have been worth a 2nd rounder. Otherwise I was cool with the draft. I agree that using them in a trade for a big was ideal, but maybe a good deal wasn't there to be had, I don't know.

Scenario #1 - working with what we had:

#15 - Ty Lawson - we needed a real PG
#35 - DaJuan Blair
#39 - Jonas Jerebko
#44 - Goran Suton (he's a C and we coulda stashed him)

So going into free agency we would have:

C: Kwame/Suton (stashed)
F: Maxiell/Blair
F: Prince/Jerebko
G: Rip/Afflalo
G: Stuckey/Bynum/Lawson

I would have done all I could to get a legit starting C on the squad. IF that meant dealing any and all players then so be it. The idea would be to get a big man to build around or who would compliment the players we already had/had left after the transaction.

I wouldn't have dealt AA away, cause he's a young cheap asset.

I certainly would have chased Super Nova and given him the amount of money Joe did.

I wouldn't have signed Ben Gordon, cause the backcourt IMO is set. IF I struck out in the trade market (like Joe did?) then I would have used the money we spent on Gordon on a big man...

Yes, I would have given David Lee a starting contract of $9 mil! Fuck it.

So, moving forward we'd have:

C: Lee/Big Ben/Kwame
F: Super Nova/Mad Max/DaJuan Blair
F: Tay Prince/Walls of Jerebko
G: Rip Hamilton/The Enforcer AA
G: Stuckey/Bynum/Lawson

Shit, sign Atkins there's the 14 man roster

Scenario #2: I'm gonna try and do this with the Kings offer Mick Nugget mentioned (and I had forgotten about):

#23 - B.J Mullins - need a long-term C - is he it?
#31 - DaJuan Blair
#35 - Jonas Jerebko
#39 - Marcus Thornton - averaged 27 ppg and 6 rebs in college
#44 - Goran Suton

So, going into free agency we would have:

C: Kwame/Mullins/Suton (stashed)
F: Maxiell/Blair
F: Prince/Jerebko
G: Rip/Afflalo/Thornton
G: Stuckey/Bynum

You could sign Big Ben and Chucky for the minimum and sign Deron Washington for the minimum and keep your cap space for 2010.

C: Big Ben/Kwame/Mullins
F: Maxiell/Blair
F: Prince/Jerebko/Washington
G: Rip/Afflalo/Thornton
G: Stuckey/Bynum/Chucky

By doing that you could really help certain teams looking to dump salaries in an effort to get under the tax threshold.

Lots of youth, lots of cap space, Kwame's expiring, Tay's near expiring, likely Lotto pick...

Joe would certainly be King and wouldn't fucking blow it within hours

^great stuff, that's what I'm talkin bout

But Glenn, you knew that's how I'd go eventually.

Now, I'll be honest: I'm pulling this number out of my arse but... it seems like teams only have significant cap space once every 5 years or so IF they're lucky.

We just had our chance and Joe IMO had 2 and only 2 options.

Option 1: Fire Michael Curry, re-sign Dice, bring back Ben Wallace and Chucky for the minimum then use all our picks and our cap space to acquire some fucking pieces to team with Rip, Tay, Dice, Big Ben and Stuckey.

I'm guessing if Joe put the word out we coulda had Boozer and/or Andre Miller. Plus we would have been attractive to the veteran free agents cause we were obviously in "Man The Fuck Up And Win Now" mode.

Basically option #1 is use whatever fucking young pieces and cap space you have to go out and buy as much talent as possible so you can attempt to win now.

I'm not gonna say we woulda won or even come close - but if you wanna keep Tay and Rip and have Big Ben start at C on this fucking squad then you should at least have the balls to go all in and make the fucking effort to win lots of games and have a hope in the playoffs.

Option 2: Clean house. Every motherfucker must go. "The Pistons = Development Leaguers" go young, play the kids, all that shit.

That means you do salary dumps for Tay and Rip. That means you might have to eat a shitty contract for 2 years but if that means you dealt Rip then so be it.

That means trying to acquire young talent and draft picks in every trade you make, not sending guys like Afflalo and Budinger away so you can fucking sign Chris "Never Done Shit in the NBA" Wilcox.

You can't go young and keep your "core" veterans around as well. This ain't Glee motherfucker - mash ups suck.

That business of half hearted rebuilding is not gonna work because we'll end up being too shit to make the playoffs (or progress far if we do make it) but we'll be too "good" to have high Lotto picks (wait until we're all healthy and have a full roster - then we'll know for sure)

Joe sat on the fence this off-season and I hope he has an ass full of splinters. He's trying to please the "fans" by keeping the veterans around while trying to sell "hope" with a youth movement.

Pick a side, bitch - one way or the other. The sooner he chooses the better off everyone will be IMO.

Dude, you're hitting it out of the park this morning*, thank you!

(*or night or whatever time of day it is there)

That means trying to acquire young talent and draft picks in every trade you make, not sending guys like Afflalo and Budinger away so you can fucking sign Chris "Never Done Shit in the NBA" Wilcox.


Afflalo has scored in double digits in 6 of the last 8 games.

I get to watch him a couple times a week and he's playing well overall. Good defense, hitting open threes, and they run pretty often (Nene and Kmart are both good outlet passers). He's fit in very well.

Not 2009, but this will do.

For Pharaoh:
http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/01/this-is-why-joe-dumars-is-a-good-general-manager/

(picture me lighting the wick on a bomb and tossing it on the floor)

Dude, you're hitting it out of the park this morning*, thank you!

(*or night or whatever time of day it is there)

Always happy to impress you, GD.

And don't worry about lighting the wick cause once I chose to really reply to this thread the bomb had fucking exploded.

Now, I'm no NBA GM and neither is anyone else on this site but apparently 99.9 fucking percent of dudes woulda drafted Blair with our first pick in the second round.

Sure, we're doing this in hindsight but I really don't think I need to go back and check the Draft Day thread - I'm sure everyone and their mother was calling for Blair with our first second rounder.

Yet our fucking GM and his cronies failed to deliver a big man that can rebound the fucking ball for the next 2 years while being paid less than $500,000 per.

That alone wouldn't be a big deal but when you factor in that we spent $16+ million on free agents not named Ben Wallace and not one of them fuckers has a rep for rebounding the ball then you gotta start to wonder.

Cause what has been a big weakness for us over the last few years? (united chorus=) Rebounding!

So Joe had 4 draft picks and $16+ mil in cap space and we used NONE of those assets on a legit big that can rebound the fucking ball or even block shots!!!!

Now, I'm not gonna shit on Joe's chest and call it ice cream without more ammo, so I'll even let that slide.

What really pisses me off is that not only did we fail to Draft Blair when we fucking shoulda and fail to spend any of our cap space on a legit big but Joe spent all the fucking money within 24 hours!!!!

What? Motherfuck! Fuck you, you moron!

Obviously he didn't explore trade options. Obviously he didn't even attempt to "steal" a reasonable player from a team close to the tax threshold. Obviously he was too busy eating fucking ice cream to build a team. I hope it tasted like shit you fat fuck.

And finally, the thing that makes me wanna wrap my hands around Joe Dumars' fucking throat and squeeze his chubby little neck til his fucking eye balls pop out is...

We had this really odd off-season where somehow, someway we had 4 Draft picks and a massive amount of cap space. In fact no one had the space we had.

Joe Dumars took 1 look at his roster and somehow, someway decided that even though he had Tayshaun Prince on the books he needed to use all 4 Draft picks on guys that essentially play Tay's position! All fucking 4 picks!

AND

Joe Dumars took another look at his roster and somehow, someway decided that even though he had Richard Hamitlon on the books he needed to spend the majority of our cap space on a fucking dude that plays Rip's position?

WTF?

You gotta be fucking crazy to spend all your assets on the ONLY 2 positions you KNEW were in safe hands.

FUCK!

NOTHING has come to light to show that Joe had deals on the table that sent Tay and Rip out of town and somehow shit just went weird and he got screwed so I have to believe that he actually drafted and signed players he wanted to fit with Tay, Rip (and Stuckey - I ain't going there right now).

WTF?

You can't be fucking serious.

Joe blew it. He had last off-season to either swing for the fences and try to maintain the rage and prolong the winning or he could have gone all out to really rebuild this team, using youth, cap space and draft picks.

Instead he's done the rebuild job half way and that's gonna cost us.

Joe is just lucky he has some chips right now to move that can really turn this thing around.

Tay + Kwame + Stuckey + our 2010 pick = 4 extremely attractive assets.

Use them wisely, Joe - or we're gonna suck for the next 3 or 4 seasons

^I just put that on twitter, lol

What?

My whole post?

Gotta be the longest tweet ever

http://twitter.com/wtfdetroit

Blair had like 28 and 22 last night.

LOL @ :us:

And that's the fucking point.

The Draft before that it was either Chalmers or CDR. Both those guys are having better seasons than the sleeping beauty we drafted.

But don't worry, boys. Drafting doesn't really matter. Who cares if Joe can't find quality cheap talent in the Draft. It doesn't matter - cause we're a contender...

Oh, hang on - not anymore.

Maybe his poor drafting is part of the reason we couldn't prolong our run?

Maybe his poor drafting is part of the reason we're struggling to shift the remaining members of that contender (because we have very few young, cheap talented pieces to entice a team to bite the bullet on a shitty contract like Rip's)?

What?

I'm making sense?

Damn!

I better say fuck a few times so you guys can blow this off as a rant.

FUCK!!! FUCK!!! FUCK!!!

^I just put that on twitter, lol

Just clicked the link.

Here's hoping a lot of people read it lol