Sources: Nets, Magic in serious talks

By Chad Ford
ESPN.com

The New Jersey Nets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn) are in serious talks with the Magic (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=orl) about a deal that will send Vince Carter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=136) to Orlando for Rafer Alston (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=11), Tony Battie (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=45) and Courtney Lee (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3445), two league sources told ESPN.com.

The talks have reached a point that a deal could be done by the end of the day Thursday, according to sources.
The trade would give the Magic even more star power on their quest to win an NBA championship. The addition of Carter to a lineup that already consists of All-Star players Dwight Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2384), Rashard Lewis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=469) and Jameer Nelson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2439) would make Orlando the favorite to win the Eastern Conference title next year if the franchise also finds a way to bring back Hedo Turkoglu (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=862), who will opt out of his contract this summer.
As for the Nets, the move is a cost-cutting measure. Both Alston and Battie are in the last year of their contracts, and trading for them would shave $16.5 million off New Jersey's roster in the summer of 2010 and put the Nets well below the salary cap.
The deal, if completed, would also give the Nets a young, promising shooting guard in Lee.

NJ attempt to go after Lebron?

Air Disney could work well since there are plenty of weapons there.

There are some Devin Harris trade rumblings out there too, which the addition of Alston might lend some additional creedence to.

That would be a bad move IMO. They need some decent players to draw Lebron's attention.

Harris, Dooling, Yi, Najera, Lopez, Williams and Anderson add up to 25 mil. they could add Lebron and another max type FA (like Amare) and have a pretty solid lineup:

PG Harris/Dooling
SG Lebron
SF Yi/Najera
PF Amare
C Lopez/Williams

That's not including their pick this year and the one owed to them next year.

It Happened.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2009/06/carter_to_magic.html?s_campaign=8315

I think it's win win for both. NJ gets the cap space for next year (weren't contending anyway). Orlando gets some good firepower and he expires when Pietrus is due a raise. Their only question is whether they can afford Hedo and Gortat (tax wise).

I wonder if this makes Pietrus available?

agree that it's a win-win for both teams.

There are some Devin Harris trade rumblings out there too, which the addition of Alston might lend some additional creedence to.
Here's what a TWolves beat writer posted, he references DX, but I can't locate it there:


Draftxpress reports talk of three-way deal: Minn gets Devin Harris, Mem gets 5 & 6, Nets gets Rubio and Rhino. Don't get that.

http://twitter.com/JerryZgoda

I think NJ won in this trade. Courtney Lee showed some good signs, and I'm not sure how well VC will work with Howard/Lewis/Turk (possibly). Looks good on paper, though.

VC is a good enough shooter that you can't leave him open.

Put him at the 2 along with Turkoglu and Lewis, and I think the Magic are serious contenders next season.

Possibly, but Carter likes to dominate the ball at times. Plus that adds another jumpshooter to a team full of jumpshooters.

I know Orlando needed to make a trade to get better, and this might work out. I'm just a bit skeptical.

VC is a good enough shooter that you can't leave him open.

Put him at the 2 along with Turkoglu and Lewis, and I think the Magic are serious contenders next season.

Whoa, that belongs in some sort of "bold predictions" thread.

Orlando is more and more looking like the old Mavs. Iso-ball all day long with a series of players all with the same talent. The Mavs didn't have Howard though.

the old mavs with Dwight Howard win multiple championships.

Yeah, it wasn't a criticism necessarily.

The addition of another weapon out there makes it even harder to guard that team. Orlando was 2nd to last in bench scoring last year and still made the finals. Technically Lee was the starter, but he only played 26 minutes a night. Throw in VC for 34 minutes and another 12 points a night (maybe 10 on this deeper team) and that makes a huge difference.

BTW, Orlando was 6th in points allowed per game and 3rd in opponent FG%. So I wouldn't compare this team to Dallas a few years back, which played no D at all.

carter's health is the real question. if he can stay healthy, they easily win this deal. although, it is a good situation for the nets too given their cap issues and longterm goals.

lee is a very underrated player though and i love the kid. so it helps the nets longterm but the magic in the short term.

magic need to keep gortat and find one more big if they're going to win it all though.

BTW, Orlando was 6th in points allowed per game and 3rd in opponent FG%. So I wouldn't compare this team to Dallas a few years back, which played no D at all.

The Avery Mavs played D, had Terry and Harris rotating at PG, and were the iso-ball I was talking about. The Nelson Mavs played no D, had Nash at point, and played Nellie ball which is faced paced and isn't as heavy iso-ball.

I can't believe Adam Morrison has a ring.

wow the last 2 days have been just crazy...Spurs,Cavs,Magic really improve for next season without giving up anything important...if the Magic continue to defend with Vince like they did last season, they sure battle the Cavs again for the eastern conference championchip

Assuming Bynum and KG come back healthy (and stay so) then all the rich got richer basically.

I'm clearly in the minority here but I don't think this trade works out for the Magic. They've got enough firepower with Lewis/Turk/Howard and I thought Pietrus was making a ton of progress. He made the perfect role player to fill out the lineup on a star-laden team. This looks like an over-reaction to me, they were better off just beefing up their bench and stabilizing the PG position (which presumably they did by trading Alston, I know...).

They should bring VC off the bench as a gunner.

They should bring VC off the bench as a gunner.


For 18 minutes??! 18 minutes???!!!

Lol @ the Iverson crack.

I too wonder if Carter will fit in with that Magic team. You can't have a team of gunners all playing big minutes. You need some dudes that don't need the ball that can impact a game.

Example: His stats look shit but having a legit 3 point shooter like Lee on the floor opened up the paint for Howard or for the drive. The fact that he knew he was a role player meant he didn't whine about shots or minutes or touches.

Will Carter do the same? Or is he gonna be like the old Kobe and jack up a shot simply because he hasn't launched one for a few minutes?

I'm always wary of moving a group of role players for a "star" with a history of whining and injuries. Orlando obviously did something right last season - they made the Finals.

I didn't see the need to change anything in a big way just because KG would be back or because Shaq joined Lebron.

This should make it easier for teams to pry away Turk and/or Gortat.

Right?

One would think so GD.

BTW, without Carter didn't everyone think Orlando would have been in the ECF or at least top 3 with the Cavs and Boston?

I expect them to retain Hedo and try to win it all... but that team could implode if things don't go smoothly.

Didn't SVG throw Nelson under the bus during the Finals?
Didn't Howard call out SVG in the press during the playoffs?

Doesn't sound like a situation I'd throw Carter into if I was GM - he has the potential to push the players v coach thing over the edge.

Reports are that Turkoglu turned down the Magic's "best offer" before he opted out. The Magic brass are now saying that it's "highly unlikely" that he'll be back.

Basically, he's ours if we want him, IMO.

I'm thinking that it might not be a bad idea since we need someone to make plays for others (and 3pt shooting).

still think he's a better fit with Stuckey than Gordon. But, I wouldn't look at him unless we did some Tay/RIP deals.

Magic to pursue Wallace, Bass

FanHouse.com (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/26/magic-to-pursue-rasheed-wallace-brandon-bass/) reports the Orlando Magic (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=orl) are expected to make contract offers next week to Rasheed Wallace (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=883) (Detroit) and Brandon Bass (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2745) (Dallas). If the Magic can sign a power forward the team, according to the Orlando Sentinel (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sportsmagic27062709jun27,0,7467871.story), will move Rashard Lewis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=469) back to small forward, play Vince Carter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=136) at shooting guard and bring Mickael Pietrus (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2173) off the bench as the sixth-man.
Detroit free agent Antonio McDyess (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=530) could also be a target of the Magic.

Wow, they really are kicking Turkoglu to the curb.

And as we discussed a few months ago, going after Bass seems likely to be a waste of time, Cubes will match, right? (I know he's unrestricted)

I don't think they're kicking Turkoglu to the curb. Reports were that Orlando offered him the best contract they were willing to give, and he shot it down.

I believe Chris has stated time and time again that the Lewis/Turkoglu/Howard frontline wasn't gonna be enough against the other legit contenders to get the job done.

I believe several people called him out for having that opinion.

It appears the Magic agree with Chris.

It doesn't matter if everyone agrees with Chris or not - the fact remains Orlando made this move because they agreed with him.

That leaves Turk out in the cold, unless by some miracle a team can manage to give Orlando what it wants in a sign and trade.

I think "what Orlando wants" in a S&T would be zero salaries coming back.

And who has those contracts?

Cleveland had Ben and Pavlovic but dealt them to Phoenix for Shaq.

San Antonio had Bowen and Oberto but dealt them to Milwaukee for Jefferson.

Would those teams rather have Turkoglu?

You know Lebron would love Turk out there with him, regardless of his D.

And Turk seems a perfect fit for the Spurs (3 point shooter, foreign, old)

Are there any teams Turk would agree to play for with those kind of contracts and/or some cap space?

I doubt it. I was trying to say that I don't think they're even interested in doing a S&T for Turk. Everything they take back would be double salary, right?

They could try to get a big trade exception, but then, would they even be willing to use it?

I think they have washed their hands of him.

Well, the trade exception could come in handy.

They don't have to use all of it.

But fuck Turkoglu.

They haven't signed any other PFs yet. They could potentially still bring him back after he checks out the market. He turned down their "best offer" but that could just be to see what else is out there. They could run out Nelson-Carter-Turkoglu-Lewis-Howard next year as their starting 5. Especially if they talked to the aging Carter and said "you won't get as many shots as you're used to, but you'll still be considered a star and you'll have a very real shot at a ring." He's still making his big money, plus when he goes into his slumps where he's not trying as hard, they'll be fine with him just being a jump shooting role player because that's what he replaced.

Would they be willing to pay the tax for a couple years for a better shot at a championship? Their big competition in the East is Cleveland. Lets compare:



They beat Cleveland, and the upgrade Cleveland made was Shaq.

Shaq doesn't make Cleveland as great as all of their fans think. You'd be amazed at hoq defensive my friends get when I say that. How much impact is he really going to give at 37? You can't play him and Z at the same time because they're too slow (Orlando would destroy them with athleticism).

Stat - Shaq - Z
MPG 30 27
PPG 18 13
RPG 8.4 7.5
BPG 1.4 1
TO 2.24 1.4
Fouls 3.4 2.8
FG% 60.9 47.2
FT% 59.5 79.9

Plus Z hits 39% of his 3's and really stretches the D, while Shaq has to be close to the basket for the most part. This is the main reason his FG% is so much higher, plus he was playing next to Amare while Z was playing next to Sideshow Bob on offense. Definitely would have an affect on the numbers since the D couldn't double Shaq. I'd imagine the per48minutes stats would look even more similar but I've already gone too far with this.


Summary: Adding a talent like Carter has the potential to push Orlando over the top because the Cavs haven't really improved much with Shaq

There's a difference between squeaking over the tax line to keep a guy or two that helped you make a run and being the Knicks.

If they bring back Turk (and Gortat?) then they'll be heading towards Knicksville.

I think they've made their decision. They chose Vince over Turk, IMO.

Agree GD - cheaper for them to add Sheed.

But what's this shit about UNC connections with Vince?

They may have played some pick up together on the campus at some point after Sheed turned pro but Sheed played with Stackhouse in college, not Carter.

Carter played with jamison, right?

For a couple years. Their wives are actually sisters.

So Carter and Jamison are brothers-in-law? Damn - didn't know that!

Kstat droppin' knowledge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!