http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/27094


Chad Ford

The trade is Richard Jefferson to the Spurs for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas ... more coming in just a second. Deal is agreed to in principle with a trade call coming later today

Milwaukee will cut Bowen, he will return to SA. Only concern for SA now is who plays next to Duncan? Spurs could be in the market for a big man like Gortat.

ARE THEY DONE NOW GLENN?
smallears

Still DONE.
And I like the smallears reference.

Milwaukee will cut Bowen, he will return to SA. Only concern for SA now is who plays next to Duncan? Spurs could be in the market for a big man like Sheed or Dice.
Fixed.

This will open up for sessions and cv to resign..

bucks are pretty much fucked

on the other hand

Tony Parker, Manu, RJ, Duncan, Roger Mason, George Hill, Michael Finley doesnt look too bad to me. If they had just kept scola...wow

Mxy's right.

Still old, slow and thin, though. Although perhaps somewhat slightly less so.

Source: Bucks deal Jefferson to Spurs

By Chad Ford
ESPN.com

The Milwaukee Bucks agreed to trade Richard Jefferson to the San Antonio Spurs for Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas and Fabricio Oberto a Bucks source told ESPN.com.

The two teams have agreed to the deal in principle. A trade call to make the deal official is coming later Tuesday.

The move gives the Spurs a dynamic wing scorer to play alongside Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. The Spurs had promised to make their team better this summer and adding Jefferson for role players should give them a huge shot in the arm.

The Bucks incentive to make the trade is largely financial. Bowen, Oberto and Thomas are all in the last year of their contracts. The deal will clear $15 million off the books for the Bucks next season and give Milwaukee more flexibility for next year. It also saves them roughly $3 million this year. That may give the Bucks the wiggle room to sign one of their restricted free agents -- either Charlie Villanueva or Ramon Sessions -- next year.

The move also opens up some playing time for the Bucks lottery pick last year, Joe Alexander.

Bowen has a partially guaranteed contract for next season, so the Bucks could release him, further saving about $4 million next season and giving them a better chance of retaining Sessions and Villanueva. In that case, Bowen might return to San Antonio later this summer.

The Bucks expect to save $6.35 million next season after releasing Bowen (only $2 million guaranteed) and Oberto (only $1.9 million guaranteed), a source told ESPN.com.

Seems like a nice move by Hammond, to me.

And the Spurs is a nice place for BabyEars from my perspective. Let's load up as many players that I can't stand there as possible.

I would guess that they re-sign Sessions and let Charlie walk.

btw, is anybody hungry for a bag of chips and a happy meal now?

This makes the Spurs a little more athletic now, which is something they really need. I think RJ is a pretty good defender as well.

They'll definitely need to go for a big with their MLE, which is why Dice/Sheed both make sense there.

If not one of those two, they may even need to split their MLE on two others to get some depth.

Too bad the Spurs have nothing I would want for Sheed. He'd be a good MLE pickup for sure, but he seems like he might just retire if the MLE was all he could get.

id wish Dumars could turn some expiring contracts into an allstar for free :/

Sheed definitly would fit in perfect with the Spurs, 2 y MLE money should do it, thats 2 y- 11 mil, more than enough for an 35 year old, i doubt money will be the mayor concern for Sheed if he will continue to play or retire...

to be fair, Jefferson really isnt an all-star anymore.

And also to be fair, Bowen going back to the Spurs isn't a big deal if it happens. He's 38 and had a hard time getting off the mastermind's bench last year as it was. I could see them bringing him back at the vet's min to fill a roster spot and because of his community involvement, but his best days are long since gone.

Oberto is interesting since his $3.8 is only 50% guaranteed if he's cut by the Bucks before 7/1/09. I could see him going back to SA, too, but even he was getting yanked out of the rotation from time to time, so he may look for a new place to play, maybe back overseas?

no shot at bogut now.

nah, oberto is a good deal at 3.8.

to be fair, Jefferson really isnt an all-star anymore.


Still a 20 PPG scorer, and his level of play will elevate being around three All-Stars.

nah, oberto is a good deal at 3.8.

I agree, that's about the right price for him, but do they choose Oberto over one of their own RFAs?

when they have to pay him 1/2 anyway....yes.

Maybe, but he seems like an older and not as good Dan Gadzuric to me.

And how many of those do you need? 1 is too many.

Oberto is worth the 3.8 I think. RJ will probably do pretty well as a 3rd/4th option on offense too. Maybe his slashing will help keep Manu healthy too. he's overpaid for a 3rd/4th option, but since they won't have cap space to spend it doesn't matter much.

And how many of those do you need? 1 is too many.
fucking wish we had a tough guy.

fucking wish we had a tough guy.

Dan Gadzuric - a tough guy. I'm going to need to think about that one a little.

Dan Gadzuric - a tough guy. I'm going to need to think about that one a little.

Okay, I'm done. If the Bucks want a tough guy, they've got Kurt Thomas now.

This is a pretty good read: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Bucks-sending-Jefferson-to-San-Antonio-;_ylt=AgQLjg5xrS2DgFve.ooTMdC8vLYF?urn=nba,172204

Dan Gadzuric - a tough guy. I'm going to need to think about that one a little.
yea. do we have a DG? Do we have a rebounder?

Talk to me in a month.

I'd rather not have Gadzuric than have him, in any case.

So with the Bucks possibly looking to shed another contract to make sure they can keep both Sessions and Charlie, is there someone that we could (or would want to) cherry pick off their roster for a 2nd rounder? I'm not seeing it.

Anybody want Kurt Thomas and his expiring?

I don't know that we want/need Kwame and Kurt, maybe one or the other. But I hate that guy, so I hope there isn't any interest on Joe's part.

Talk to me in a month.

I'd rather not have Gadzuric than have him, in any case.

i wouldn't want to play them....but it beats tossing akid out there.

In an effort to clear more salary cap space, the Detroit Pistons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/det/;_ylt=AiDxd08tqwx8vVf8iU2eZevTjdIF) have sent forward Amir Johnson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3982/;_ylt=Ajg.8toZy2u_SNVxcvRQHYbTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3982/news;_ylt=AmebSMlT6F8va6uD4bajPq_TjdIF) to the Milwaukee Bucks (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/mil/;_ylt=AruZJwr1xTlDOolpYNdSy7zTjdIF) for newly acquired Fabricio Oberto (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3988/;_ylt=AikWLcdO2IHzmYAjXyV4DLXTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3988/news;_ylt=ApHjNYB7fpHzNydv3U_Wu7rTjdIF), a league executive told Yahoo! Sports.
The Pistons plan to buy out Oberto’s deal and make him a free agent. The San Antonio Spurs (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/sas/;_ylt=An_t802EzPG28_CAmj73Be3TjdIF) sent Oberto to the Bucks as part of a four-player trade (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/h;_ylt=Aj6RpXRpkPU2rbWppG9ctKPTjdIF) for Richard Jefferson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3523/;_ylt=AlAC0TWtRPaEm1oE9OoaoDLTjdIF)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3523/news;_ylt=Apuvr3p5vxzvdgqwuFUXzZLTjdIF) earlier on Tuesday.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-pistonsbucks062309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-pistonsbucks062309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Very interesting.

Soooo.... what's the math behind this being better than buying out Amir? Also, they just threw Amir away?

Yeah, I think their salaries are pretty similar?? Unless Oberto's already agreed to a super cheap buyout??

I believe Oberto's contract isn't guaranteed. The Pistons can release him and save a chunk of cap space.

I kinda wish we could keep him, but we need the cap space more.

I think an extra 3.6 million off the books means we're over $20 million in cap space.

If Kwame doesn't come back, it would be an absurd amount of space. We'd be able to sign THREE major free agents.

Whatev, I don't think Amir has what it takes... He has a lot of talent but lacks explosion in his leaping (the height on his jumps is good, but the acceleration off the ground isn't great). He also lacks the mentality, apparently... I'm okay with this.

Unfortunately, Joe hinted that he expects Kwame back. Still, $20 million is big. He must have swung this with something in mind. Maybe he has a few things lined up already.

The Pistons will also send some money. Oberto only has $1.8 million guaranteed on his contract. If the Pistons waive him, they'll save $1.5 million this year. That's important to Detroit who are trying to clear as much cap space as possible for free agents this summer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4281291

Hammond connection.

Herm and I wasted some time earlier, lol.

The Pistons will also send some money.

I wonder if we'll get that back on Thursday by selling #15?

Okay, so now let's sign Boozer & Gordon and do the Charlotte deal.

Chip-chop-chip.

And Amir replaces Charlie V in Milwaukee, eh?

i hate to see amir go because he's still very young and i feel he could be something with a proper role.

but whatever- we'd better do something with all this cap room. i'm not content to just sign 2 big FAs. i say that because nobody in FA is really worth what we'll end up paying them so we still need an impact trade to shake the roster up more and bring even more talent and players who fit what we need to do. adding 2 guys to our current core is enough to make the playoffs again but not enough to get us where we want to go.

i hope we still make a REAL trade...

I thought if you bought out a player with a non-guaranteed contract that contract still counts against the cap in full. So even though the pistons would save money not paying oberto in full they in fact would lose $666,667 in cap space. Where am i wrong on this?

I thought if you bought out a player with a non-guaranteed contract that contract still counts against the cap in full. So even though the pistons would save money not paying oberto in full they in fact would lose $666,667 in cap space. Where am i wrong on this?

Nah, non guaranteed deals don't count for cap/tax space before the season starts. It's just like not picking up an option.

Think about times when guys have been cut at the midpoint of the season in order to avoid the tax limit.

We traded Amir for the second coming of Zelly?

We better have some really fucking good plans for that cap space.

I believe only the guaranteed part counts against the cap.


We traded Amir for the second coming of Zelly?

We better have some really fucking good plans for that cap space.

Not like Amir was looking like anything special at this point.

defrocked I think you're right on that. I'll have to do some more reading on the CBA later.

For good or ill our capspace is going to Boozer and Gordon. That's why we wanted to shave 1.7 million off payroll.

We just gave up someone who could play as well as Gadzuric.

For good or ill our capspace is going to Boozer and Gordon. That's why we wanted to shave 1.7 million off payroll.

If we had a real coach for Gordon I wouldn't be so against it. The fact is, we don't. Anybody who watched game 7 of Bulls/Celts rather than just looked at the stat line saw that he chucked the Bulls out of any real shot at that game. He has talent, but needs a real coach with real balls to make him play an overall game.

If we had a real coach for Gordon I wouldn't be so against it. The fact is, we don't. Anybody who watched game 7 of Bulls/Celts rather than just looked at the stat line saw that he chucked the Bulls out of any real shot at that game. He has talent, but needs a real coach with real balls to make him play an overall game. So true. He's been chucking them out of games for 4 years. He has tons of talent but I don't think he's capable of being the featured scorer on a truly contending team and he seems to refuse to accept a lesser role. He takes so many just silly, silly shots, usually at the most important times. I think it's pretty telling that most Bulls fans are happy to just let him walk. A horribly frustrating player to watch.

I've posted this before so sorry for repeating myself but he'd be perfect in the Vinnie Johnson role if you could convince him to be a 6th man, but I just can't see that happening.

not for $10+ million a year either

not for $10+ million a year either
why not? I'd being willing to see us overpay for that service if he's that damn good at it.

woohoo another player traded for capspace! awesome! meh i had so high hopes for Amir, but he will be a career backup at best, so more capspace kickz ass!

Bigs currently under contract (not counting Oberto):
Jason Maxiell
Kwame Brown

Spotlight on: Joe Dumars

You know what's funny: Thinking about all the trades that included Amir 2 years ago compared to what we actually traded him for now...

Chad Ford: The NBA trading frenzy that normally coincides with draft week got off to a hot start Tuesday with two huge trades. The Bucks traded Richard Jefferson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1006) to the Spurs for cap relief, and the Wolves agreed to trade Randy Foye (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3003) and Mike Miller (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=558) to the Wizards for the No. 5 pick and a bunch of players with undesirable contracts.
How do the deals affect the draft?
For the Bucks, probably little. This deal gave them some flexibility to re-sign one of their restricted free agents -- either Charlie Villanueva (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2792) or Ramon Sessions (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3231). From what I can gather, the emphasis will be on Villanueva.
Why? The draft has something to do with it. The Bucks have several point guard prospects they like at No. 10. The only big guy they've looked at hard is DeJuan Blair, but that's too high for Blair to go.
I think they'll take Jonny Flynn, Jrue Holiday or Jeff Teague at No. 10 and go into the summer with a solid rebuilding base of talented young players including Andrew Bogut (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2747), Joe Alexander (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3411) and Villanueva. It isn't a championship contender, but it's a start.
For the Spurs, not at all. They don't have a first-round pick anyway.
But the Wolves now are the power players in the draft, with picks 5, 6, 18, 28, 45 and 47. The question is, what will they do next?
Sources say they want two lottery picks, so a trade of 5 and 6 for the second or third pick is unlikely. But they might be willing to package 5 and 18. That might not be enough for Memphis (No. 2), but it could be for Oklahoma City (No. 3). The Thunder might be content to go to No. 5 and get either James Harden or Stephen Curry, and then, at No. 18, get another player they covet, Ohio State's B.J. Mullens.
See our latest mock draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-090624) for more on the Wolves' options.



http://assets.espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/med/trans/det.gif (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det)

• The Pistons also made a small deal Tuesday, moving Amir Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2769) to the Bucks for Fabricio Oberto (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2805). Since Oberto's contract is only partially guaranteed next year, the Pistons can waive him and get about $1.7 million further under the salary cap this summer.
That could put them roughly $23 million under the cap going into free agency. Over the past few months, we've assumed Carlos Boozer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1703) is their primary target, but that might not be the case. A league source told me Tuesday that the Pistons' free-agent strategy likely would preclude a run at Boozer.
The Pistons want to add several players to the roster and want to keep salaries at or less than $10 million per year. With Boozer likely demanding a deal in the $15 million to $16 million a year range, his contract demands are out of their league. Add in concerns about Boozer's injury history, and I don't think the Pistons will make a play for him.
Instead, you can look for them to make a run at Ben Gordon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2381), try to re-sign Antonio McDyess (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=530) and find one or two other players they can sign for smaller salaries.
That stance in Detroit could put Boozer in a tough position. If he opts out of his contract with the Jazz, he's going to struggle to find any team far enough under the cap to offer him what he wants. And with the Jazz interested in keeping Paul Millsap (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3015), Boozer could be out of luck in Utah, too.

LOL @ 16 per for Boozer!!! I've called out people for saying he'd start at 9, but that's like saying we'll give him the MLE.

Lets merge all the threads in the NBA forum and then put that thread in the Other Sports forum.

LOL @ 16 per for Boozer!!! I've called out people for saying he'd start at 9, but that's like saying we'll give him the MLE.
If he thinks he's worth 16 mil he better not opt out (and hope Miami gives him that next year). Pistons won't offer more than 11 mil IMO (and I think they'll explore other options before Boozer at all too), and Utah certainly isn't either.

And where is he getting $23m in cap space?

maybe the salary cap is going to be higher than previously estimated?

$23 is probably an optimistic estimate. It would be nice if he were right.

Also, I'm glad Kstat started this thread.

is he assuming Kwame will opt out?

I don't understand the "more than 1 mil in cap savings" (see quote) for Detroit if they cut Oberto. They said only 1.8 mil of his contract is locked in. Amir made 3.7 mil. Wouldn't we get almost 2 mil in cap space if we cut him?

That would push us from 18 mil to 20 mil in space. If Kwame opted out that's 24 mil in space (won't happen).



Oberto is in the final year of a contract worth $3.5 million. However, Detroit probably will waive him and then be on the hook for the guaranteed portion of his contract, which is worth $1.8 million -- a savings of more than $1 million.

Boozer strikes me as the second coming of CWebb.

I wouldn't mind a 27-year old CWebb....

Fixed:


Boozer strikes me as the second coming of Tmac.

If he's healthy, Boozer is a very good player. I could see him having Tmac like injuries too though.

I wouldn't mind a 27-year old TMac, either.

We never had T-Mac.

Unless that is the point you were making.

we never really had webber, either.

I wouldn't mind a 27-year old TMac, either.

He only played 47 games that year. 71, 66 and 35 since.

i'll happily take the 25-26ppg average and the 25/8/7 numbers he put up in the postseason.

I'd rather have a superstar that plays 50 games and shows up for the playoffs than a guy that plays 82 games and breaks down at the finish line.

I wouldn't mind a 27-year old CWebb....

Webber played 54, 67 and 23 games a year after turning 27.

we never really had webber, either.

I agree. the Webber we had was not the Webber of his mid to late twenties (injuries or not).

Webber played 54, 67 and 23 games a year after turning 27.

age 27: 24/10/4
age 28: 23/10/4
age 29: 23/10/4

I don't care how many games he played. I'll take those numbers.

I never said Webber was a bad player (or Tmac for that matter) at age 27. Both were/are great players at that age. The issue is simply whether you have them in the playoffs as you said. Boozer came back from the playoffs, but injuries are unpredictable. The next one could keep him out of the playoffs (like Tmac).

It's really a roll of the dice on his health. I have no problems with his game at all. I trust Kander to know what we'll get out of him health wise.

Who is gonna post the Amir Johnson depreciation thread?

age 27: 24/10/4
age 28: 23/10/4
age 29: 23/10/4

I don't care how many games he played. I'll take those numbers.

That is insane.

Who is gonna post the Amir Johnson depreciation thread?
Listen Gl'enn, appreciation threads can only be made when the appreciation level of the appreciated reaches the critical appreciation threshold. I know how these things work. I'm an engineer.

His value certainly depreciated.

'member when the Spurs wanted him? lol

age 27: 24/10/4
age 28: 23/10/4
age 29: 23/10/4

I don't care how many games he played. I'll take those numbers.


Flip Murray had 29 points, 8 assists and 6 rebounds on 11/11/03

Flip owns all of you suckers.

I was never unhappy with his signing, just the results. Anyway, I like the sig.

I'd rather have aguy that puts up 15 points, 8 boards, 2 blocks every single game than some "superstar" that plays half the season.

For a start you've got a lot of payroll tied up in your "superstar", who is sitting on the bench doing nothing half the time.

Meanwhile, his lesser paid team mates are out there ballin', doing all they can to get the win and eventually make the playoffs.

Then your "superstar" is gonna ride in on the white horse and take the lead? He's gonna come in and work his magic?

Fuck that! I once played with a dude like that - he played half-assed for most of the season and then dominated the ball come playoff time. 3 of his team mates took him outside after the final game (after he scored 30 points and we won) and one of them (not me) punched him full on in the face.

We then went and drank beers to celebrate the win...

Point is: Players that perform every single night expect their team mates to do the same. Injuries or no injuries players hate fuckers you ride in at the last minute and steal the glory.

But if you win big all can be forgiven.

If you don't win big the whole fucking thing can explode all over your face.

Point is: if you don't have a top 10 player, you ain't gonna win anything anyways in today's NBA*

*exception- 2004 Pistons

Instead, the Clippers are focusing on finding a new home for Chris Kaman or Zach Randolph.
Kaman to detroit for a 2nd rounder? ummmm please?

I'll give up two second rounders for him.

I doubt LA wants RIP. They need a SF more than a SG. What team needs RIP (that has a SF to give) that we can get involved?

I'm thinking maybe we could get Charlotte involved somehow. They have 3 centers making 22 mil right now. They could use a defensive center to pair with Griffin.

Max, RIP and Tay to Charlotte (26 mil)
Okefor and Bell to Clippers (16 mil)
Wallace, Kaman and Camby to Detroit (27 mil)

Charlotte gets new wings and a PF to rotate with Diaw.

Clippers cut a couple mil, get a backup wing and can move Randolph into backing up PF/C without having the glut there.

Pistons get a true center and a replacement SF, plus a solid backup big man to whatever PF they sign.

We'd only gain a couple mil in salaries. Get Boozer and Gordon with our 20 mil in space.

I'd like to move Kwame and keep Dice too. Am I dreaming? Shit, while I'm dreaming lets move Kwame and #15 for Battier.

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/AA
SF Wallace/Battier
PF Boozer/Battier
C Kaman/Camby

Max, RIP and Tay to Charlotte (26 mil)
Okefor and Bell to Clippers (16 mil)
Wallace, Kaman and Camby to Detroit (27 mil)

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/AA
SF Wallace/Battier
PF Boozer/Battier
C Kaman/Camby

Chris for GM of the Year!

It seems that the hitch with that trade is swapping Okafor and Kaman. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a lateral move. Though, they are dumping two bigs for one in return, which would open up their rotation, if they're, ya know, into that sorta thing. They'd still have Randolph, Okafor, and Griffin though.

With that starting five and comparable backups, I think we're a contender again.

No, the hitch is getting Battier for trash. They love him. They gave up Rudy Gay for him.

That's why I put that as a throw in since I was already dreaming. In reality we'd just use #15 on our backup F

Chris for GM of the Year!

It seems that the hitch with that trade is swapping Okafor and Kaman. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a lateral move. Though, they are dumping two bigs for one in return, which would open up their rotation, if they're, ya know, into that sorta thing. They'd still have Randolph, Okafor, and Griffin though.

With that starting five and comparable backups, I think we're a contender again.

I would think Okafor is a better fit next to Griffin. He's a little better defender, a little quicker laterally and the Clippers would be able to play up tempo with Davis/Gordon/Thornton/Griffin/Okefor.

It is mostly lateral, but they'd also be swapping an extra big man for a wing they could use in the playoffs to guard Kobe (should they make it there).

There’s no chance Bowen returns to the Spurs if the Bucks buy him out as well. His relationship with Gregg Popovich deteriorated with his dwindling role a year ago, and that partnership is over.

Bowen pretty much sucked ass too. He's not worth paying taxes on, that is for sure.

I'm not positive, but I don't think you have to pay taxes on players that you sign to the vet's minimum.

You don't.

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/AA
SF Wallace/Battier
PF Boozer/Battier
C Kaman/Camby

How many games would that starting front court play combined, about 100? 150?

I'm wondering (especially after the Draft) if Joe doesn't avoid traditional bigs altogether.

We drafted the "new" kind of playing - long, tall, with perimeter skills.

Can anyone imagine Boozer guarding Rashard Lewis at the 3 point line? Or Howard in the paint (if we went small)? I can't.

Maybe the Draft was an indicator to what we're looking at?

Maybe Joe went with Daye because he doesn't see a championship window opening for the next couple of seasons at least (with Cleveland, LA, Boston, Orlando all strong) and believes that by the time Daye is ready for a full time role the league will be wide open again?

I got lots of questions now that the Draft is over and it's settled in - and only Joe can answer them in free agency.

What tall long perimeter oriented bigs are out there (besides Sheed)?

What tall long perimeter oriented bigs are out there (besides Sheed)?

Odom
Turkoglu
Charlie V.
Al Harrington
Memo

to name a few

Charlie V as a starting PF? He's got some perimeter skills.

I'm just not sure what kind of C to put in there.

Do we want an Okafor (all D/no O) type or a David Lee (undersized workhorse) type?

Joe is finally reacting to the league changing over the past 3 or 4 years.

The style of play, the kind of player you need up front has changed.

Signing Gordon would signal a shift towards the future (smaller, more explosive backcourt). But we'd have to deal Rip for a big after signing him.

Signing Boozer suggests clinging to the past IMO. We don't need to slow it down and play a dull game. Fans hate that shit - tv executives hate that shit.

But if you get Stuckey, Gordon, Prince and Charlie V running all over the court jacking shit up then you might get more national TV games. Which pleases the sponsors and fans.

Winning is not all that important unfortunately. Look at Phoenix. Run and gun and stun and run but never win the ring.

Odom
Turkoglu
Charlie V.
Al Harrington
Memo

to name a few

all but Memo are 3/4's. I'm talking 4/5's. We need players that can play C/PF full time.

Odom is a full time 4, IMO.

So Oberto needs to be waived today to get the cap benefits, right?

I Believe:

He needs to be bought out for us to get the saving.

As long as that happens before we sign our "last" free agent it's all good

ASB-

Oh, and on a side note. The Pistons did waive Fabricio Oberto on Tuesday, which will save them about $1.7 million. His contract was worth $3.5 million this season, but only $1.8 million of it was guaranteed.

He needed to be waived by 7/1, I thought it was on/before 7/1.

GD: Hermy said it happened Tuesday. That's before or on July 1st, right?

I can't believe you guys are a day behind.

Hurry the fuck up and get with the program

waiting to see the responses to that