I really like Lee and don't see him as being anything like a Jon Konkac. Lee is not only a good player but the guy hustles and plays hard. I see him being every bit as good as Milsap and everyone seems willing to throw a bunch of cash his way so why not Lee?


Lee is not as good as Milsap.

I see Lee as a 7-9 mil a year player. He's better than the MLE. MLE players are inconsistent players who haven't lived up to potential or journeymen role players.

MLE players signed last year:

Diop
Duhon
Posey
Udrih

You think Lee isn't far better than them?

Lee is not as good as Milsap.

Lee is ahead of Milsap in virtually every catagory:

PPG: 16.0 vs. 13.3
RPG: 11.7 vs. 8.5
APG: 2.1 vs. 1.2
BPG: 0.3 vs. 0.9
FG%: 54.9 vs. 53.4

Now you have to be fair and factor in MPG (34.9 for Lee vs. 29.7 for Milsap) and the styles that the teams play but that being said, the players are very comparable.

Lee is ahead of Milsap in virtually every catagory:

PPG: 16.0 vs. 13.3
RPG: 11.7 vs. 8.5
APG: 2.1 vs. 1.2
BPG: 0.3 vs. 0.9
FG%: 54.9 vs. 53.4

Now you have to be fair and factor in MPG (34.9 for Lee vs. 29.7 for Milsap) and the styles that the teams play but that being said, the players are very comparable.
When you thought of that, you should have reconsidered hitting submit.

When you thought of that, you should have reconsidered hitting submit.

What's your point exactly? At 35 mpg Milsap is looking at 15.3 ppg and 10.0 rpg. It's hard to factor in "style of play" but their numbers are very comparable with Lee holding the edge regardless of what you say. The math doesn't lie.

Numbers lie all the time, especially D'Antoni numbers.

Lee shot 52% with almost 11 points in 9 boards in 29 mpg off the bench last year, eerily similar to Millsap #'s. I still like both of them, as they are both workhorse players who will give solid CONSISTENT production every night.

If they weren't restricted, I would say offer them both about $7.5m (and let them know about it) and see who takes it first.

Lee has an inch or two on Millsap, but they are about the same weight. Both are good rebounders, I call that a draw. Lee can run the floor more. He also shoots a bit better from the floor than Millsap (closer to %60 while Millsap is closer to %50). I think he has more range (not three point range though) too.

I'd take Lee, but I'd be happy with Millsap as a consolation.

I've been trying to find a way to put this in more tangible terms, but I can't.

Lee just seems more legit to me than Millsap.

I'm concerned that Millsap got a lot of those rebounds by default (no Boozer, sometimes no Okur -- and when Okur was there, he was floating). He didn't wow me in the games that I saw him play, he just sort of compiled stats.

Lee just seems to play with more energy and athleticism to me.

Lee might benefit from D'Antonio, but Millsap has a good coach in Sloan, and a much better PG that gets him open looks. Millsap also benefits from Okur being outside (other than the rebounds you mentioned) in that he has more space to operate offensively.

Please.

Milsap is the better defender.

Lee might benefit from D'Antonio, but Millsap has a good coach in Sloan, and a much better PG that gets him open looks. Millsap also benefits from Okur being outside (other than the rebounds you mentioned) in that he has more space to operate offensively.


Lee benefits from running up and down a spread floor. Milsap plays in a crowded house and only gets open shots off the pick-and-rolls he participates in.

Millsap is nearly 2 years younger too, if you care about that.

Lee is not as good as Milsap.

Lee 19.07 PER

Millsap 18.71 PER

OWNED

Somebody dig up Fouls/48.

Can Millsap stay on the floor 35 MPG?

I don't know the answer, just asking the question.

here are his monthly numbers (helps to see with the MPG there):

November - 28.2 MPG and 3.7 PF

December - 37.8 MPG and 4.3 PF

January - 33.6 MPG and 4.1 PF

February - 30.3 MPG and 3.4 PF

March - 25.9 MPG and 3.9 PF

April - 26.4 MPG and 3.3 PF

3.8 Fouls a game on 30 MPG for the season. Fouled out 4 times on the year only once after December 15th. I don't see this being an issue at all.

In the end, even though Lee is better, it will come down to money and who's available. If Joe has his heart set on Boozer, we'll get neither of these guys.

All things being equal? Boozer. He's a better player.

However, if he comes at a price tag $4-5 million cheaper, ill take millsapp.

Boozer. TheEnd.

This is Milsap's first real chance... passed the test... he's got a higher ceiling.

disagree. I don't think he can do better than 21 and 12 on near-%60 shooting.

I wouldn't turn Millsapp away at all, but I do think he has questions to his game that Boozer doesn't, and being younger does not automatically make him better.

if we end up with a good starting center like Okafor + either one of those guys, i'll be happy

What's your point exactly? At 35 mpg Milsap is looking at 15.3 ppg and 10.0 rpg. It's hard to factor in "style of play" but their numbers are very comparable with Lee holding the edge regardless of what you say. The math doesn't lie.

The knicks took the most shots in the league and also missed the most shots. When you take the most shots you get more shot opportunities and the potential for inflated offensive stats (which is why all D'Antoni teams have players with inflated scoring averages).

When you miss the most shots you also have more opportunities to rebound. You could make a case that lee had more chances to get more offensive rebounds and therefore has inflated stats in this category. I'm also guessing opponenets took more shots when playing the knicks which could also lead to more defensive rebounding chances...assuming teams actually missed shots against the knicks.

Utah took 6.5 shots less per game than the knicks and shot at a much higher percentage than the knickerbockers (47.5 to 44.5). One could say Millsap, based on him being a Utah Jazz, was penalized in comparison to lee from a statistical advantage based on the differences in team style which makes stats a poor way to compare these 2 players.

With that being said I'd rather have millsap over lee. I'd also rather have boozer if the team can find a guy with legit size and shot-blocking ability to go with him.

6.5 shots extra per game for NY...how does that translate to an individual? If Lee plays %72 of his team's minutes, that means he's on the floor for 4.7 extra shots a game. Hard to say when he's in rebounding position from that, so let's try another angle...

If the Knicks shoot %45.5 from the floor, that means 2.9 shots are made of those 6.5 extra. So of the 3.6 extra misses a game, if Lee grabs %28 of the Knicks rebounds, that equates to 1 rebound a game extra for Lee.

What that doesn't factor in is the fact that the opposing team outrebounds NY by 5 a game and those 6.5 shots would be defensive rebounds (easier for the opponent).

I think the extra shots a game would translate to less than a half rebound a game for Lee.

Nice job on the poll question, Fool.

Close vote.

6.5 shots extra per game for NY...how does that translate to an individual? If Lee plays %72 of his team's minutes, that means he's on the floor for 4.7 extra shots a game. Hard to say when he's in rebounding position from that, so let's try another angle...

If the Knicks shoot %45.5 from the floor, that means 2.9 shots are made of those 6.5 extra. So of the 3.6 extra misses a game, if Lee grabs %28 of the Knicks rebounds, that equates to 1 rebound a game extra for Lee.

What that doesn't factor in is the fact that the opposing team outrebounds NY by 5 a game and those 6.5 shots would be defensive rebounds (easier for the opponent).

I think the extra shots a game would translate to less than a half rebound a game for Lee.

All really good points which is why it's dangerous to use stats to compare people. There's also a difference in the quality of the team and how that equates to success from a statistical perspective. On a bad team (like the knicks) having good stats might not carry as much weight as supposed to someone that puts up similar numbers (but slightly less) on a good team.

If it were as simple as what people did from a per-minute angle (which essentially what hollinger's per is) than all of this would be simple.

Maybe it's really just as simple as how the milsap/lee situation pertains to the sport of boxing: Never bet on the white guy.

(that's a joke from an old TV show called Police Squad, BTW)

I guess I have to be more careful about my "polite arguments". They seem to have a habit of growing into their own threads. LOL

There are several factors that would come into play. What if one wants a couple million more and the cheaper one allows you to get another player you need? What if Boozer opts out (much greater chance that Millsap is matched). What if we have a center in mind and one compliments him better.

I'd take either to be our PF, that is for sure.

Maybe it's really just as simple as how the milsap/lee situation pertains to the sport of boxing: Never bet on the white guy.

(that's a joke from an old TV show called Police Squad, BTW)
If the marquee player we get for all our cap space is either Millsap or Lee, the Police Squad! quote I'll invoke is: Is this some kind of bust?

(And yeah, I loved that show! I own it on DVD, and watched all the episodes back when they aired.)

To make an informed decision on the poll, I'd like to know their 1st names. You gotta have a 1st name that goes with Milsap, imo. Almost anything goes with Lee, but his 1st name would still have bearing on my vote.

disagree. I don't think he can do better than 21 and 12 on near-%60 shooting.

I wouldn't turn Millsapp away at all, but I do think he has questions to his game that Boozer doesn't, and being younger does not automatically make him better.
I'll assume the stats you're talking about are Boozer's (instead of the poll question).
If you are then we'd have to go down a different rabbit hole... like injuries, salary, awful defense etc.

Defensive rotations matter... Milsap over Lee

Good to see Train Wreck in the house.

Everyone loves a train wreck