I know we're all sitting here thinking of all the players Joe could potentially add via trades or free agency this off-season but I think it's time we got serious:

Is there anyone out there that is gonna make Cleveland sit up and take notice?

If we sign Carlos Boozer that adds to the rivalry but will they really be even a little freaked out about it?

Lebron James is All-World already and he's only 24. They have Mo Williams and Delonte West in the backcourt and those 2 work well together and mesh extremely well with LBJ . Up front they have Big Z and likely Varejao who do what needs to be done on that team. I hate to say it but their starting 5 is well balanced, works well as unit and has a fair amount of upside.

Off the bench comes Big Ben, Gibson, Wally World and (likely) the usual cast of minimum wage veterans looking to ride LBJ to a title or 2 or 3.

Who are we gonna get that is going to bridge this abyss between our teams?

I can't see us spending $10+ million on Boozer and then adding 1 other FA. That will have little to no effect on bridging the gap. If we don't spread the money around we are not going to build the kind of team that can take Cleveland down.

I just don't see how we can spread the money around AND add all that we need to add in order to seriously challenge Cleveland in a 7 game series.

Yes, my high hopes have faded. Someone deliver a morale boost.

he's only 24.

I think you've discovered reality.

Not the morale boost I'm looking for.

You're lucky I don't delete your post.

They'll take notice if we signed Boozer and got a solid young center to play next to him. Complete teams can beat even the best superstars when playing at a high level (ask Kobe/Shaq/Malone/Payton). The problem is the Pistons play far from a high level right now.

They need a star player that busts their butt to infuse energy in the locker room again.

And Boozer is that guy? Someone please convince me he's the Saviour, cause everything points to us getting him and I'm not feeling it.

I just don;t get that vibe from him - that he's dying to be the best, to prove everyone wrong.

I think he had it when he was drafted, used it to fuel his rise through the NBA but now that he's made it he's happy. I think the reason he's always injured is because he doesn't put the work in during the off-season.

He just doesn't give me the feeling that everything will be better with him. If I don't feel it I don't want him here - not enough bang for the bucks he's gonna cost.

They need a star player that busts their butt to infuse energy in the locker room again.
Bosh.

Unfortunately, the likelihood of us getting him is slim to none. He'd be that perfect young star that works his butt off though.

Plus, I suppose we're all banking on some development from Stuckey.

Maybe we actually make that rumored Rip to Washington deal and get someone like Butler, again not likely. Butler would be another young stud that busts his butt (from what I've heard, I really don't know).

Maybe we move a guy like Rip and Tayshaun moves up in the scoring option list. He's been pretty much set at #4 scoring option since he broke out and became a starter. Sheed is gone, AI is gone, our current outlook at PF and C are not scoring threats. If Rip is moved, that makes it Stuckey and Tay, and whoever we get for Rip most likely. Think he finally asserts himself in a situation like that? He's always shown he can step up when he has to, like when the other big dogs are out with injuries.

None of this goes with Pharaoh's opening of reality though because they're all hypotheticals that aren't likely. We'll just have to see who's really available when the season ends and things become reality.

And Boozer is that guy? Someone please convince me he's the Saviour, cause everything points to us getting him and I'm not feeling it.


Maybe this will make you feel better then. I've read in a couple of places that Boozer is actually looking less likely in Detroit rather than more likely.

I've soured on the Boozer idea. The more I've learned about his injury problems and how much money he's going to want. That's the kind of thing that can cripple a team for years (see: Hill, Grant - Orlando)

I'm not sold on Boozer either way. I'd like to see what choice he makes this summer and what he has to say about his goals.

Ideally I'd like to move Amir and RIP or Tay for a young center (Kamen maybe). Then get a guy like Lee to play next to him.

Draft Lawson and move Stuckey to SG.

That would be a high energy hard working team I would think that could make a turn around like Denver did this year.

Lawson and Stuckey would have issues. Both are quick slashers that can't shoot long-range. Teams would just sag off of both of them and clog passing lanes while challenging them to shoot. Maybe if Stuckey pulls a Hamilton and spends his entire offseason building a 3pt shot....

Lawson and Stuckey would have issues. Both are quick slashers that can't shoot long-range. Teams would just sag off of both of them and clog passing lanes while challenging them to shoot. Maybe if Stuckey pulls a Hamilton and spends his entire offseason building a 3pt shot....

Um, have you seen Lawson? That guy can definitely shoot the 3 no problem. Yeah, he's a slasher, but he has range too.

I think he complements Stuckey very nicely:



Positives:
Super-quick point guard
Good athlete with explosive leaping ability
Excellent penetrator and finisher around the basket
Good court vision
Solid perimeter shooter, though streaky
Quick defender gets a lot of steals
Keeps turnovers to a minimum

Negatives:

Undersized for his position
So-so free-throw shooter
Lacks a real midrange game
Streaky from the perimeter
Not much of a scorer
Can he play at more than one speed?

I think that a combination of getting Bosh/Boozer AND Artest would make Cleveland worry a little. It is highly unlikely that the Pistons would get Artest but he's one of the few guys in the league who can actually slow down Lebron.

Well, I'll take Boozer, warts and all. We're not going to get anyone else of that caliber giving up only cap room.

Trades would still need to be made, as he's not THE piece, but merely A piece.

It says the ESPN rundown that he's a streaky perimeter shooter. I said I've only seen a few games, I didn't see him shoot many and just remember him bricking a few. Probably never saw him when he was feeling it and knocking them down.

sorry that i don't have words of encouragement P. but we have no chance. this is why i say we need to completely tear the team apart and trade every asset we have that is not part of the longterm future, ie. rip, & prince as a start.

we need to stockpile draft picks and hope to hit big in the draft. yeah, yeah, i know the drafting record. but with enough high picks we will at least have a fighting chance at finding some stud athletes who can propel this team into the next decade.

but in reality we need to completely rebuild and get as much young talent as we can, to have any sort of chance. otherwise we'll just be delaying the inevitable, which is when we finally decide to rebuild. then we'll have fewer assets ie. draft picks to rebuild with. that would make us a mediocre team (at best) for the next decade or so.

that is again why i say to tear the team apart and start the rebuild NOW. let's get all the young talent we can and go from there. stockpile #1 picks and steal away a budding young player. i really like rodney carney, for example. a franchise saviour? no. but he is a stud athlete and a young guy who could really become a nice player for us.

some guys like him could be had at a decent price and yet they could really be part of the rebirth of this franchise. but that only happens if we first admit that we're heading over the waterfall- no sense fighting to swim against it; accept it, and prepare for it so you're ready to resurface ASAP afterwards.

So you want to put your faith in our scouting team to hit on a few lotto picks to rebound this team?

The same group that missed on Darko, Cleaves and White?

It didn't work for Chicago either (how's Curry and Chandler working out for them?).

Glenn - what if Boozer costs $11 mil or $12 mil?

You happy with that? Only having $6 mil left to get some other players?

I would rather sign Varejao and Ben Gordon and trade for another big.

Surely a package that starts with Rip or Tay and includes #15 or AA plus also includes Amir or Kwame could get us some quality big?

Right?

I'd probably pay $11-12m for Boozer and then use the remaining cap room to make a trade for a young/athletic $6m player that a team in financial trouble needs to shed.

Then I'd probably trade Rip/Amir/#15 and/or maybe Kwame for another big and/or a starting point guard.

I'm leaning towards keeping Tay, unless we can get Marvin Williams on the cheap. I just don't see too many available starting quality SFs that are better than Tay.

At least that is how I feel today, it'll probably change tomorrow.

There are so many options available to Joe that this will be fun to watch. So many ways to screw this up, and probably only one or two ways to get it right.

The Suns were trying to trade Amare, and we've entirely stopped bringing his name up. Any reason for that? What would it take to get him to Detroit? Amir, Rip, #15? Maybe just Amir, Rip since they're looking to cut salary? I don't know if its as plausable now since we don't have those expirings to give them, but we can still take on his contract without trading a big deal like Rips if they're actually in that big of a cost cutting mode.

I highly doubt they'd take it but something like Amir, #15, and a smaller contract like AAs or some of those 2nd round picks would shed a lot of salary off their books. Maybe we'd have to take on another of their bad salaries, but we'd still have Rip and Tay to trade for other pieces. Again, I highly highly doubt they'd want to make a trade like that, but I don't know how bad their financials are.

I'd probably pay $11-12m for Boozer and then use the remaining cap room to make a trade for a young/athletic $6m player that a team in financial trouble needs to shed.

Then I'd probably trade Rip/Amir/#15 and/or maybe Kwame for another big and/or a starting point guard.

I'm leaning towards keeping Tay, unless we can get Marvin Williams on the cheap. I just don't see too many available starting quality SFs that are better than Tay.

At least that is how I feel today, it'll probably change tomorrow.

There are so many options available to Joe that this will be fun to watch. So many ways to screw this up, and probably only one or two ways to get it right.

I agree on keeping Tay and making that trade for a BIG (without Kwame if we can) and I believe we have our PG's, even if you don't like it.

That $6 million player is vital though, cause we (you and I) just traded Rip.

What SG's are up for grabs that make $6 million or could be signed for that?

And Z - I would push for Amare or Bosh before Boozer. I hope Joe does too

I'd probably pay $11-12m for Boozer and then use the remaining cap room to make a trade for a young/athletic $6m player that a team in financial trouble needs to shed.


Here are a few guys that make around that much that could be plucked from teams that need to cut salary:

James Posey ($6m/yr, N.O.) Not "young" but he might make a subsequent Tay trade more plausible.

Brendan Haywood ($6m/yr, expiring, Wash.) If we got Boozer and Haywood with the cap room, that wouldn't be all bad.

Andray Blatche ($3m/yr, Wash.) I'm sure they don't want to lose him, but if they need to get under the tax, they might rather lose him than someone else.

Leandro Barbosa ($6.6m/yr, Phx.) Joe loves combo guards, a precursor to a Rip deal, most likely.

Kyle Korver ($5.4m/yr, Utah) The sniper we need, could back up Tay a little if need be.

JR Smith ($5.5m/yr, Denver) Sniper.

Jared Jeffries ($6.5m/yr, NYK) They'd take the salary relief, no question.

Chris Duhon ($6m/yr. expiring, NYK) There's the playmaking PG, Joe D loves him.

Any of those guys + Boozer is a good starting point, IMO. Then Joe can make more moves with Rip, Tay, Kwame, Amir, draft picks, etc.

Would JR Smith go back to his chucker/numbers ways once he parted company with Chauncey (who that ESPN article made sound like his grounding point)?

Posey has too long of a contract, iirc.

I'd like the Haywood move. I wanted us to trade for him last summer. Would they want to dump an expiring? I suppose we'd just be giving them the cap room now. He could even be had in a Rip trade. Send them Rip, get back Haywood, 1st round pick, potentially something else. I'd love to think we can get Butler by adding more pieces but I don't think they're trading him.

Could Barbosa and Stuckey co-exist? I think they'd be okay, but its something that Joe would have to consider.

I dont think they're trading Blatche. They'd dump Haywood first, more than likely.

Korver plays zero defense, but he'd be a good backup to Tay and he'd be able to just come in and gun.

I don't know much about Jeffries. How long is his deal?

I wouldn't mind Duhon but I think P is right, our PGs are probably set. He did seem to get the job done in Chicago and looked to pass first. That's something I definitely missed this year.

I've always been a huge fan of the distributing PG and the SG that can handle the ball when needed and break his man down/get his own shot if needed. I'm a fan of the idea of having Stuckey pair with a bigger PG or another combo guard, preferably the former. The guy that keeps coming to mind is Heinrich. He's a solid passer and defender, he can shoot the 3 and handle the ball, but he's much more of a PG than SG and doesn't have to have the ball in his hands. In that situation, he could run the offense most of the time, but Stuckey would still be able to bring the ball up and run things when we wanted him to, and we'd be fine with either guy having the ball. Stuckey would become more of a JoeD type. He's the shooting guard, but he can run things as well and play PG if needed. And in a few years, his development will continue and he could become the everyday PG. This bridges that gap until then. What would it take to get Heinrich from the Bulls? They've got Rose now and they probably want to try to keep Gordon.

I'd say Ben Gordon fits that but he seems to need the ball in his hands a lot more and doesn't really distribute.

Be warned, numbers are from Hoops Hype.

Next year the Bulls have Miller on the books for 12+, Deng on the books for 10+, Tim Thomas and Jerome James for 6+ each (James is not turning down that option), Salmons and Rose for 5+ each, Tyrus Thomas for 4+, and Noah for 2+. Plus Aaron Gray is a FA, if they think he's worth bringing back as a young developing 7 footer, although he shouldn't cost too much. They have over 63mil locked up for next year, and if they want to resign Gordon they'll definitely be looking to cut salary. Heinrich is overpriced at 9.5mil, but his salary drops every year for the next 3 seasons. Its high but we have the space and he becomes a starting guard next to Stuckey.

He'd bring 3pt shooting (38%), ball movement (6.1 assists), and I think he plays decent defense. That's what Joe is looking for and he probably wouldn't take much to get.

Or you could go the other way and go after Gordon who's probably going to make similar money, I'd assume. He's about the same size, he can handle the ball, although he's not as much of a passer, and you wouldn't be trading anything for him so you could use those assets to get someone else.

He'd bring even better 3pt shooting (41%) and less distribution (3apg), and he'd allow Joe to leave Stuckey at the point if that's what he wants. Both are viable and realistic options that would let us move Rip for another piece of the puzzle.


If we picked up either of the baby bulls and traded Rip to Washington for the pick (we'll say #4) and Haywood, drafted Jordan Hill we'd be looking at:

Guards: Stuckey and Heinrich or Gordon - Bynum
SF: Tay (or another trade) - #15 if not traded, James Johnson or Derrick Brown?
PF: McDyess - #4 Hill
C: Haywood - Kwame

If we resigned Dyess, we'd be able to give Hill some time to develop and use him off the bench. If we don't resign Dyess, Hill battles for a starting spot with Max/Amir if they aren't traded.

The downside to this is if Thabeet drops to 4 and Hill is gone, or Joe likes one of the SGs the most at 4. Would we want to trade for Haywood and draft Thabeet? Haywood is an expiring so we'd have a year with him to let Thabeet develop, but what do we do at PF?

If we take a SG like Harden or DeRozan (please no, we've proven we can't develop potential-based talent), or even if Joe goes crazy and takes a PG like Brandon Jennings, we just got another guard making 9mil and crowded the hell out of our backcourt. That's a potential disaster.

There are no free agents this season that could make this a quick rebuilding process. There are pieces to the puzzle, but nothing that is going to make this team a contender next season. Besides, free agency usually destroys teams instead of making them better. To get a high quality free agent, you need to overpay, unless you're a team already at the top. The Pistons are not.

Championships are won by good trades and good drafting. Joe has a pretty good track record with trades, and his drafting skills are average at best. I don't see a game changer falling to the Pistons at 15, but a solid piece will be there. And Joe has done a pretty good job in the past with finding players that are ready to break out, so if he can draft a solid player this season and trade some of the core away for some good pieces all while fitting in a couple above average free agents in there, they will be back on the right track...

But that's not our biggest problem. This is:
http://blog.mlive.com/pistons_impact/2008/06/medium_080610_michael_curry_new_pistons_coach.JPG

So you want to put your faith in our scouting team to hit on a few lotto picks to rebound this team?

The same group that missed on Darko, Cleaves and White?

It didn't work for Chicago either (how's Curry and Chandler working out for them?).


i don't recall saying that at all. but stockpiling high picks gives you a lot more assets to either utilize yourself or to use in a trade. the point of the bulls is that they have added lots of good young players by stockpiling picks- some of which were used to later trade away for more assets, others are homegrown talent.

would you prefer to hold out hope that we somehow sign a big name FA? cause frankly i don't see it happening. or land a superstar in a trade by using only the players we currently have? i think there COULD be a trade or 2 that could bring us some nice players. but nobody who is going to change this franchise.

so in many regards it will come down to being savvy and stockpiling picks which can later be cashed in to acquire better players or to actually draft them yourself. past draft failure does not mean we shouldn't try to put ourselves in the position to acquire good young talent again. we desperately need to build through the draft, sometimes suplementing that with a trade.

I agree that the free agent crop doesn't fill me with hope and I would love to acquire a ton of picks and young players for Rip and Tay.

But what teams are gonna pony up a good package for those 2?

yeah they're not going to bring us a ton in return...but even if we can somehow get a 'future' #1 from a team- ideally one that we can cash in within the next 2-3 years.

i think it's quite possible we could get one for rip in the right deal. we could even get a middle first for prince in the right deal too. we would likely have to take back a player we're not overly excited about....but i think it could happen in the right scenario.

I think Ben Gordon's just impossible to build a championship team around. He's fun as hell to watch at times, and when he gets hot, his jumper is sweet as can be, the ball just kind of floats into the net like it was meant to be.

But there are just too many times you can't have him out there. He's too short to guard most 2 guards, and he can't guard a 1 to save his life. He has a bad habit of thinking he's Jordan out there and will start chucking up bad shots at bad times. I honestly think he'd make a team the perfect 6th man, in the Vinny Johnson mold, but he doesn't seem willing to accept that role.

Hey Glenn put some ideas out there... which I respect more than sniping with no personal views on a solution (being part of the solution vs contributing to the problem).
Out of the list I like Haywood, Blatche, Barbosa & Smith (with at least 4M back out contract).

I'd agree with the tanking to get a superstar deal if I thought it would work but it rarely does. I'd probably just go ahead and build it the same was these Pistons were built.

I'd take Hinrich if we got them to take a contract back such as Max or Amir...(Preferably Max) I'd than try to pry away both Ariza and Milsap from their respective teams. (Which I admit is unlikey)

Than I'd use Prince and filler to try and get Kaman..

Not a championship team but at least they'd be fun to watch again

Detroit Pistons' Offseason To-Do List: Version Seven

by Justin Sucher
May 25, 2009

In each of the articles that I have written about the Detroit Pistons, I try to differentiate the various courses that Joe Dumars can take in rebuilding this franchise.

I have devised different plans that include bringing in true point guards, scoring machines, three-point specialists, and other superstar talents, as well as rebuilding through the draft and developing younger talent.

This article will be no different.

I believe there are other solutions in free agency that make Tayshaun Prince expendable. Personally, I don't know how much better Tayshaun can get. He's made it clear that he does not want to be the go-to guy and is more of a complement in a balanced lineup.

The one player that I would target first is Trevor Ariza. The Lakers' payroll situation makes it nearly impossible for them to retain Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom, and Ariza.

The Pistons can match or beat any offer that the Lakers will make, but Ariza won't demand the amount of money that other big name free agents may.

By bringing in Ariza, it would mean that Prince's days in Detroit are numbered. With Prince, I would target players like Amare Stoudamire, Chris Bosh, and David West.

Yet, the Hornets have made it known that West is most likely not leaving and the Pistons could probably do better than West with what they have to offer. The Raptors aren't sure that Bosh is going to stick around after next year and if they could agree to some sort of sign-and-trade, they would probably entertain offers.

The Pistons could offer a package of Prince, Amir Johnson, the 15th pick, and if need be, one of their three second-round picks in the upcoming draft for Bosh.

The Raptors would definitely look into a deal like this as would the Suns if a similar deal were offered for Stoudamire. Although, Stoudamire is definitely more inclined to stay in Phoenix than Bosh is to remain in Toronto.

With those two moves, the Pistons would have Rodney Stuckey, Rip Hamilton, Ariza, and Bosh. They would then only lack a true center in the starting lineup.

While there are only a few limited options in free agency, there are a couple guys who could do the job at a reasonable price.

Zaza Pachulia and Mehmet Okur are two guys who could fill the void quite nicely. Okur would spread the floor and leave Bosh to control the paint while Pachulia could do just about anything. Obviously, Pachulia would be less expensive than Okur, but if you want to be good, you've got to spend.

I still like the idea of bringing in Tyson Chandler at the right price. The Pistons could take advantage of the Hornets' financial situation, though if Peja Stojakovic were to retire, they'd be more inclined to keep Chandler.

Nevertheless, there are many options that the Pistons can explore and this was just another one of those options.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/183426-detroit-pistons-offseason-to-do-list-version-seven

I'm okay with most of this, but am baffled with the Bosh "S&T thing".

NFW the Raps do that deal

That's actually not a bad idea...

Let's say we paid Ariza a starting salary of $5 mil

Then we traded Prince, Amir, #15 and a 2nd to Toronto for Bosh (I'll assume the salaries match or a very close)

We'd be:

C: Kwame
F: Bosh/Maxiell
F: Ariza
G: Rip/AA
G: Stuckey/Bynum

And have $13 mil to buy a back-up SF (Rodney Carney with a starting salary of... maybe $3.5 mil) and we'd need a big man and now have almost $9 mil to accomplish that.

Maybe we get Haywood? Or maybe we could make an offer to Millsap or Lee and on D match-ups would determine who guarded who up front?

Do Toronto make the trade? Who cares - all we're doing is throwing out scenarios and there are a lot of possibilities this off-season.

The only scenario I hate is us signing Boozer and Gordon and thinking we're set, cause we won't be. Who starts at C if we spend all our money on those 2? Our rookie draft pick? Kwame? Amir? Maxiell? Who?

The only scenario I hate is us signing Boozer and Gordon and thinking we're set, cause we won't be. Who starts at C if we spend all our money on those 2? Our rookie draft pick? Kwame? Amir? Maxiell? Who?

Agreed. This wouldn't be good, and I don't think it happens. All signs point to Boozer being our primary target, but I don't think we'd be interested in Gordon. What use would we have for him, unless Joe is planning to move Rip? Three guard ball didn't work with AI, and it wouldn't with Gordon either.

In some ways, I feel like the starting C is the first thing we should be addressing, but most of the scenarios we come up with here involve signing Boozer, trading for Amare or Bosh, or signing Lee or Milsap, all PFs. Maybe a trade for Kamen should be the first move Joe makes.

Why is everyone saying all signs point to our primary target being Boozer? Because he is the best player available? I don't think he's a match for us for several reasons...

The way the playoffs are shaking out... it looks like Ariza will get the money from the Lakers instead of Odom.

I'm just wondering how long it will take for the Ariza love to end.

seriously, what has he done? he got a couple steals that were gift wrapped to him. he's hit a couple threes and that's it. Has he shown any more consistency than wussfino?

AFAICT, he plays hard and hustles and people seem to miss that characteristic. Its putting a bit of a haze around him. He's an okay player, nothing special, and he'd be worth going after for the right price. He does seem to be the kind of guy Joe D used to go for, but he's a bit overrated lately due to all the sudden attention. Let it pass, then we'll see how people think of him.

seriously, what has he done? he got a couple steals that were gift wrapped to him. he's hit a couple threes and that's it. Has he shown any more consistency than wussfino?

If you are going to limit the scope to just players that have "done something" then not only will that be a very select group of players, but they mostly be old guys or those that expect too much in salary.

He's long, athletic, plays d, has improved his game, is getting playoff experience and is still relatively young.

I'll take Ariza in a heatbeat, for the right price. I'm not paying him more than 4-5 mil a year though. All this talk about him being the cream of the crop is nonsense. He's a solid role player, that's it.

Agreed, anything more than $5m is too much.

He'd be a great option if we move Tay in another deal.

I like the idea of sending Amir back home to LA in a S&T.

What had Chauncey done before he came here?

What had Rip done?

What had Ben done?

Hell, what had post-injury McDyess done?

I do agree that Joe doesn't focus on guys that have done something, but more on guys that are on the verge of doing something. Guys (like Ariza) that are athletic, hustle and work hard. I said it in #40, for the right price he's great. You just have to hope he pans out like other guys Joe has brought in via trade/FA.

Chauncey was the MLE, RIP was on his rookie contract, Ben couldn't have been making more than the MLE either. Yes, Joe took a chance on all of them, but didn't break the bank on any of them either. I'm not doing that with Ariza either. 5 mil or less, and only after addressing the paint.

Guys (like Ariza) that are athletic, hustle and work hard. I said it in #40, for the right price he's great.
By right price, I mean less than the MLE. Someone may be stupid and give him $7mil or maybe even the full MLE but I doubt it. He's only making $2.9mil this season. He will probably pull about $5mil because of the attention he got playing with Kobe and making a couple key plays. If it hadn't been for that, he'd be looking at 3.5-4 max and a solid backup role (which is where he was for most of the season, only started 20 of 82). Too much for us to pay him as our backup SF but if he was for some reason replacing Tay, that would be fine salarywise. Not saying I think he's a solid replacement for Tay.

Just pointing out, we all want to add more 3pt shooting, yet we're all talking about dealing Tayshaun. He hit 40% of his threes this season.

I'm not moving Tay or RIP unless it gets us a legit big. If you can get a legit big you move them and worry about replacing them later. If we can get the legit big without moving them, by all means.

Is Paul Millsap a legit big? What about David Lee?

I'd offer $8 mil to both of them (BOOM! cap space spent)

If their teams match good for them.

Ain't no one offering Boozer shit besides us. You think the Kings want him?

Completely weird question:

Would anyone wanna sign Marvin Williams (starting @ $8 mil) and make him play PF?

Then sign Birdman for MLE money and another big with some D skills?

We'd be:

C: Birdman/Other D FA/Kwame
F: Marvin/Maxiell/Amir
F: Prince/#15
G: Rip/AA
G: Stuckey/Bynum

plus the 2nds

I'd like to think that we could get more than Birdman and Marvin Williams with all that $.

You forgot the extra big with some D skills.

So 2 defensive minded bigs (Birdman + ?) and Marvin.

Marv seems to fit the Joe mold, too - he had some really good games this season. He might be on the verge.

Marv is the best breakout candidate who could find himself on a new team. Not sure what it would cost though....7per for 5 years?

Apart from developing a 3P shot, what has Marvin Williams done?
He's been about ready to break out for 3 years now...

I don't think he'd be a bad player, but I wouldn't expect much more than what we're getting out of him. It'd only make sense if we got a C who could rebound, and moved one of our PFs.

He's improved on his adjusted fg% every year. His D earned some kudos this year. He'd only make sense to me if we moved Tay. I like him as a big 3.

Mxy, I think Marvin is due for a step up. I saw some of it this past season and I think in a better situation he'd be able to utilise his skills better.

I think Woodson has done a pretty good job with him and he's filled in where he's been needed for the Hawks but I believe he has a lot more to offer in a different system.

Oh, um I forgot - we don't have a system.

Fair enough. I just think that if the biggest thing we did in this offseason involved getting Marvin Williams because he was about to break out, I'd be feeling fairly disappointed.

And I didn't see this post before I vented about our lack of a system in another thread... :)

I think Marvin would be a fine SF in the right system, although we'd need some quality D up front if we were to sign him.

Assuming we traded Prince and things for a quality big I wouldn't mind seeing Marvin signed as a free agent.

But I also wouldn't mind us signing Ariza or Childress either.

I feel like I remember Marvin Williams being a fairly athletic guy. He's obviously got a little size to him. Would he be able to body up the bigger SFs in the league, the type that give Prince troubles, without them being able to blow by him off the dribble? Not getting destroyed off the dribble is why Prince is such a great defender. He's got the length to play off of his man, giving him time to react, and still get a hand in their face when they shoot. He just has trouble when bigger players start banging him.

Which reminds me, why did we have him playing at PF EVER? If anything, he should be a SF that can play some SG or point forward. Never, under any circumstances (Flip, Curry) should he be used outside of that role.

Here's an interesting plan for you, Pharoah...


Jose (Lansing, Mich.): Just wondering what you thought of this scenario: (1) sign Boozer for about $12 million a year; (2) trade Prince and Maxiell for Chris Kaman and Al Thornton; (3) trade Kwame Brown for Tyson Chandler. That would give us Stuckey and Bynum at the point, Rip and Afflalo at the two, Thornton at the three, Boozer and Amir at the four and Kaman and Chandler at center. Use the draft to fill in behind Thornton.

Langlois: Pretty well-conceived plan, Jose. I haven’t seen enough of Thornton in his two years – who sees Clippers games? – to get a great feel for him yet. Not sure how that frontcourt fits together. Not saying it couldn’t, just wondering who up front gives you the threat of stepping outside and knocking down anything past 10 feet except Boozer, whose range is probably comparable to or a little less than Antonio McDyess’?

And look at the first two words of that question.

+10 MoTowns for superstaying on topic

I like it, but Kamen and Chandler at the 5 is a bit overkill. Not that I wouldn't love it, but who do you convince to come off the bench?

This would be the line-up/rotation:

C: Kaman 32 + Chandler 16
F: Boozer 34 + Chandler 14 (Maxiell and Amir can fill in at both spots)
F: Thornton 30 + Rookies (or trade Amir for a SF making less than $4 mil)
G: Rip 34 + AA 14
G: Stuckey 30 + Bynum 18

Not much outside shooting on that team (can Thornton shoot from deep)?
Where is the extra ball handler Joe wanted?

I understand we needed to address the PF/C positions and this plan solves that issue in a big way. Turns a weakness into a strength.

It doesn't address other weaknesses though.

BTW, I don't crunch numbers. Is that plan even possible?

THey probably wouldn't do RIP/Amir and picks for Kamen and Gordon would they?

I don't know - maybe.

Why would they do it though?

If they wanted to dump Randolph they could include Gordon in that deal, plus a future pick or something.

I don't see anyone taking Randolph off their hands unless the Clips deliver some young talent or picks.

I don't know why they'd dump Kaman. Isn't Camby an expiring contract next season? Dude won't stay in LA after next season IMO. So they should hang on to Kaman.

Maybe we could get Camby?

If they have the #1 pick AND they're already stuck wtih Randolph, they may view keeping Kaman as too much money invested in the frontcourt. They keep Camby around for the year while Griffin gets a feel for the NBA. Then next year they can either resign him for another year or let him walk and have Griffin play C next to Randolph. He's got the size and athleticism to handle splitting time between PF and C.

They only deal Kaman if they feel they cannot move Randolph. It's too much money in those 3 (Kaman/Zach/Griffin) to keep them all. I think they try hard to move Randolph, but nobody will bite without Gordon in the deal. I doubt they give up Gordon.

They can move Camby fairly easily, but they'll still have to eat Randolphs contract next year. Perhaps they could find a team wanting him as a one year rental then.

I'd take Camby off their hands to play next to Bosh/Boozer/Millsap. Wonder if they'd do Tay (with picks?) for Thornton and Camby.

no way they trade gordon, hes the onlyhope of their franchise, along with al thornton..and possibly blake griffin

Gordon, Thornton, Griffin is NOT a bad core. If they can shed some of that salary to add pieces, they'll be alright.
Randolph is killing them and should in no way be their highest paid player.
Davis is a big contract and could probably be moved if they wanted to, but he isn't a big problem for them if he gets energized by the young guys and plays like he's capable of.
Camby is expiring.
Kamen could be a solid fit next to Griffin. He's a bit overpaid but if he fits, its not a problem.
Outside of those guys, they don't have any big contracts, but those take up ~$60 million! They're going to have serious depth trouble beyond those guys.
Essentially they're sitting on a solid rotation of bigs (Griffin, Camby, Kamen, Randolph) with no other depth whatsoever. They'll have to move one of those bigs or play Davis, Gordon, Thornton over 40-45 minutes a night. No one's taking Randolph, so Camby and Kamen will be available.

no way they trade gordon, hes the onlyhope of their franchise, along with al thornton..and possibly blake griffin

Forgot about Steve Novak