Paterno wants 12 teams in league

By Ivan Maisel
ESPN.com

NEW YORK -- Penn State coach Joe Paterno said Thursday night that he has pushed within the Big Ten conference to expand it to 12 teams as a method of leveling the playing field in college football.

"We go into hiding for six weeks," Paterno said, referring to the hiatus between the end of the Big Ten regular season and the BCS bowls. The other major FBS conferences play into the first weekend of December.

"Everybody else is playing playoffs on television," Paterno said. "You never see a Big Ten team mentioned. So I think that's a handicap.

"I've tried to talk to the Big Ten people about, 'Let's get a 12th team -- Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt -- we could have a little bit of a playoff.'"

Paterno spoke to several college football reporters before a booster meeting at the Plaza Hotel. The comments came in response to a question on whether a team from the Northeast could win a national championship. The 1986 Nittany Lions are the last No. 1 team from the region.

"The only [Northeastern] team that's got a shot would be us, and yet we've got a tough job because the Big Ten is not as visible in the key times as the Southeastern Conference and the Big 12."

Asked what sort of response he had received, Paterno raised his eyebrows in a facial shrug.

"You know, it's a conference that's dominated by a couple of people," Paterno said. "If I start talking, they're polite, but they snicker.

"They don't know I know they're snickering, but they're polite. ...I wish I were younger and going to be around [another] 20 years."

With the conference commissioners holding so much power, Paterno said, the whole landscape could change if two or three people change.

"We're not talking about invading Normandy," Paterno said. "We're talking about some alignments that could happen very quickly."

Paterno, 82, made a few references to having dismounted the soapbox he used for so many years. On the other hand the new hip he received last November has restored the vitality for which he is so well-known. He looks, sounds, and yes, coaches younger than he has in years.

"I coached this spring," Paterno said. "That may be the kiss of death. Last year, all I did was supervise. ...I was really more of an observer. Now, since I'm walking around. I can grab the kids and say, 'You can't do it that way.' I can look 'em in the eye and grab 'em, and that's part of the fun for me. To have an impact on the pace of the practice, the enthusiasm, those are the kind of things that I missed."

The winningest coach in the game renewed his call for a four- or eight-team playoff to replace the BCS. He also decried the NCAA decision to force Florida State coach Bobby Bowden to vacate 14 victories in which the Seminoles players were later found to have committed academic fraud.

At the conclusion of last season, Paterno led Bowden in career victories, 373-372.

"My feeling is, Bobby coached the team he had and he won, OK? He ought to get credit for the wins," Paterno said. "I think that's ridiculous. Can anybody in this game, with all the rules of the NCAA, stand up and say, 'Every single kid I got, every single kid, is absolutely pure?' That's a tough statement to make."

I think Pitt makes the most sense, but I've always thought that Louisville might not be a bad choice, either.

Not even going to think about ND anymore, that ship has sailed.

Why do conferences go with the numbered names at all? Like Big Ten, Big 12, etc.

Then when you change teams everything gets messed up.

Why not go with the "Behind the Eight-Ball" Conference? It's funny when a 900 year old man has to tell the conference big shots that 11 teams in the "Big TEN" is stupid, and that no championship game is costing the conference a lot of money, and makes the Big Ten even more irrelevant because its season ends sometime around Halloween.

I still think Missouri is the first choice with Pitt being the 2nd choice.........just a feeling.

^ Missouri...good thought.

"My feeling is, Bobby coached the team he had and he won, OK? He ought to get credit for the wins," Paterno said. "I think that's ridiculous. Can anybody in this game, with all the rules of the NCAA, stand up and say, 'Every single kid I got, every single kid, is absolutely pure?' That's a tough statement to make."

So... whaddaya sayin', Joe? Your kids cheat? Hmmmmm?


Join me, Joe, and together we will rule ESPN.com

They should add TCU or Colorado State to the Big 12 and then toss us Iowa State...

then you have 2 divisions

- Michigan, Mich St, Ohio St, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern

- Wisconsin, Minn, Iowa, Iowa St, Illinois, Penn St

I don't think you'd ever see UM and OSU in the same division. Wouldn't they want to leave a potential UM/OSU B10 Championship Game in tact?

Now as for what that does to the annual regular season-ender, that's part of the problem with them adding a Champ. game in the first place.

For progress to be made on this, a lot of tradition is going to have to go out the window, hence the reluctance.

I don't think you'd ever see UM and OSU in the same division. Wouldn't they want to leave a potential UM/OSU B10 Championship Game in tact?

Now as for what that does to the annual regular season-ender, that's part of the problem with them adding a Champ. game in the first place.

For progress to be made on this, a lot of tradition is going to have to go out the window, hence the reluctance.

True, I forgot about that. Good point.

Switch Ohio St & Illinois then (that way Illinois & NW are together).

Usually what happens is you play for sure every team in your division (so that's 5 games right there) and then play 3 teams in the other division for two straight years (home and home) and then play the other three teams, two years after that. So really, your conference record is irrelevant, and your division record is what matters.

Then, the Big Ten Championship (assuming it'd always be indoors) game... you can rotate it between Ford Field, Lucas Oil Stadium (Indianapolis), and possibly the Metrodome (although I think the Gophers are getting a new outdoor stadium next year) or the Carrier Dome if Syracuse were to join.

Keep it all within the existing states.

Like Cinncinati?

Or another "State" school.

Miami University, Ohio!!!!! The home of Big Ben!!!

http://www.muredhawks.com/index-main.html

Their all around sports program is good enough.

I don't think you'd ever see UM and OSU in the same division. Wouldn't they want to leave a potential UM/OSU B10 Championship Game in tact?

Now as for what that does to the annual regular season-ender, that's part of the problem with them adding a Champ. game in the first place.

For progress to be made on this, a lot of tradition is going to have to go out the window, hence the reluctance.

The Big 12 ruined the Nebraska-Oklahoma rivalry, which was every bit the rivalry that UM-OSU used to be (when UM was competitive in it). To keep that game intact, though, you'd probably have to play a nine or ten game conference shedule, not the present 8 if you add a 12th team. If you have two six team divisions, that means you play the other five in your division every year and then rotate the six in the other division. If OSU is in the other division--how does that affect the rotation?
Either that or you just don't have divisions, and at the end the top two are in the championship game.
You also have to consider television sets. Iowa State adds no tv sets for ratings purposes. Missouri makes sense because it adds a lot of tv sets and gets the Big Ten footprint into another state. Pitt doesn't accomplish much since you are already in Penssylvania. Rutgers or Syracuse add a lot of tv sets as well, and again, gets the Big Ten into another state.

Nebraska, as I always say, adds tv sets, gets you into another state, and gives you a rabid following of people that will travel like mothers to the away games, especially when they play the big boys. They also hate the shit out of Penn State here--another rivalry type game that could be played every year.

It's ironic that all this change talk comes from the dinosaur.

I think most of these Conference higher-ups just fear change.

I forgot about Cincinnati...they would be the most ideal fit if you ask me...

them or pitt.


recruiting has to be tough at Cinci though, every kid who grows up in ohio wants to be a buckeye, not a stupid bearcat...

still, they got to a BCS bowl game last year

So many fucktards, so little time.

Ledezma--let's add Cincinnati to the Big Ten and WOW the college football world with their 35,000 seat stadium, eh? Oh, I know, once the Big Ten accepts them, they'll magically find Big Time Money, like about 200 Millions of dollars, and upgrade their stadium to hold about 75,000, and they'll do it in a fortnight!

Ledezma: I know college is tres easy, but you, son, show as much ability to think as a dead dandelion (and you have less personality than one).

And why would Pitt make the most sense otherwise? For travel? Because it would help Penn State feel a lil less lonely, being the only Pennsylvania school in the conference? The only reason I would send my approval of Pitt is that they are a pretty dern good basketball school as well as being somewhat better than Indiana in football.

Think about it, you turd: The Big Ten needs expansion to areas they are not in yet to create NEW interest. Nobody gives a fuck about this conference outside of the frigid upper midwest states; the Big Ten is a laughingstock. Adding a dopey Pitt or Cincinnati team will force the rest of college football to yawn again.

The Big Ten thought they would have the bestest thing in the whole wide world when Penn State joined, and Notre Dame appeared ready to hop into the sack with them. Holy shit, that would have been cool. But Notre Dame (and the Big Ten still has NOT given up on them, I believe) has other desires.

The bIg Ten needs a bit of a shocker here. A good program, hopefully with some tradition, some rabid fans that will travel both to road games and to bowl games, new TV sets to bring in advertizing revenue, and of course, they need to completely ignore the advice of Will Ledezma.

The two divisions suggest make no sense in this way - Penn State, the furthest east team, is in a division with the 5 other furthest west teams.

As for new teams to add, the same names pop up every time:
Syracuse - hasn't been significant in a while and upstate NY isn't going to bring the new interest Zip spoke of
Louisville - it's a new part of the country and yet no too far from existing teams, only a few hours from Colombus
Cincinnati - it's a team on the rise, but would have to make some stronger stadium commitments to please the Big Ten. Certainly one of the biggest markets mentioned which is a huge plus. Already an area of strong recruiting competition with multiple other teams in the conference.
Pitt - one of the better teams in the Big East for a while, geographically logical, also a stronger market than many others. This is a team people nationally have given attention to over the past decade.
Iowa State - makes sense only because Iowa is already in the Big Ten. Not a good team in a long time and would probably hurt the conference more than help it.
Missouri - this name comes up but it's never going to happen. The rivalry with Kansas and existing Big 12 ties will prevent it.
Notre Dame - you can forget about this. Unless the pope becomes Lutheran this simply won't ever happen.
I've heard West Viginia and Marshall before, but not often.

The other day I heard one for the first time. Someone suggested that soon Grand Valley will be D-1 and they would join the MAC, bumping an existing MAC school into the Big Ten (which would be called the Big North). Some clear issues there. First, who is it? No team has been able to really rise above the others year in and year out. Next, outside of Temple with a good sized stadium and nobody in it, they all play in stadiums hovering around 30,000 (issue mentioned earlier). Just to get up to the level of the smallest Big Ten stadiums they would have to expand by 67%. They would have far more football revenue being in the Big Ten, but that's a mamoth undertaking.

The stadium size issue has been brushed aside by some other major conferences and there have been competitive teams playing in small homes before. Washington State, Vanderbilt, and Wake Forest all play in places between 31,000 and 35,000. Certainly they are not powerhouses, and they're only competitive periodically, but it's been done.

I almost think the best thing would be for the Big Ten to issue an official statement: "We're planning to add a 12th team to the conference and we're entertaining bids from interested teams. Submit your interest by such-and-such a date along with a profile of what you could add to the conference and why you should be the choice, along with your long-term plan of what you would do with your facilities if chosen." What's the worst that could happen? No one is interested? I highly doubt that would happen. Worst case scenario would likely be one that's already been discussed here.

Jethro:

I agree with you on Syracuse to a point--but their football team can be good and is kinda lost in the Big East. I do wonder if they are happy in the 16-team powerhouse that is the Big East. They could smell dominance in Big Ten basketball.

The problem with posts 12, 15, 16 and others is your are introducing some logic into the equation.

Jethro:

I agree with you on Syracuse to a point--but their football team can be good and is kinda lost in the Big East. I do wonder if they are happy in the 16-team powerhouse that is the Big East. They could smell dominance in Big Ten basketball.

Yeah, it's true that you have to take basketball into account as well.

Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville all make a great case to come in and strengthen the conference in hoops. But do they want to leave the Big East for that? I imagine the Big Ten doesn't want any part of a football-only deal.
The ACC/Big Ten challenge could actually feature games for all 12 ACC teams then, and the Big Ten might even stand a chance to win it for once.

The bIg Ten needs a bit of a shocker here. A good program, hopefully with some tradition, some rabid fans that will travel both to road games and to bowl games, new TV sets to bring in advertizing revenue, and of course, they need to completely ignore the advice of Will Ledezma.

Well if you dismiss Cincinnatti & Pitt, good luck finding that...

University of Toronto?

Well if you dismiss Cincinnatti & Pitt, good luck finding that...

Sorry, I just can't buy into Cincinnati--their football program is one you could say is on the rise--but what part of that rise can be attributed to being in the Big East? And with only 35,000 butts in the seats at their football stadium, and with Ohio already represented by OSU in the conference, what's the added benefit of Cincinnati, other than just to have a 12th team--and then having to consider all the machinations of that 12th team (existing rivalries, scheduling, etc)--why add a 12th team just to have a 12th team if it doesn't add value?

My feeling is that the Big Ten is bottome heavy with boring teams that are going to suck into eternity. ENOUGH with the Minnesotas, Purdues, Indianas, Illinois, Northworsterns, Iowas and Wisconsins! Add some panache--get yerself into another part of the country! Make a big play for a Missouri or Nebraska--hell, scope out somebody from the SEC who might not want to fuck with the moneybags and sharks in that conference year in and year out (Kentucky???).
The idea, generally, with the Big Ten has been snotty, highly intellectual research-based private type schools (Northworstern, Purdue, U of Chicago), and state institutions. Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati don't fit that. And again, they don't add a national following, a rabid, travelling fan base, and TV sets.

You got to think big here and not be provincial with it. If the Big Ten whiffs on this one, they won't get another chance, and permanent irrelevance is a risk.

Big 10 to JoPa...nah

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4141080

This guy thinks like I do. It's probably Notre Dame or bust for the foreseeable future.

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2009/05/its_always_been_notre_dame_or.html#preview

I don't follow this stuff much but I haven't thought about ND. As much as I dislike them, that would bring some coin to the conference.

Notre Dame makes the most sense, after that, it's Nebraska. Anyone other than those two ain't happening in our lifetime, Tahoe. Bank on it.

#24 article...Some of those end of season scenarios are good. They kind of give me a tingle up my leg.

But what would the B10 winner get as far as BCS? Nothing changes as far as that goes, right?

Same BCS stuff. One automatic tie-in with the conference champ, and prolly two BCS games if you have two teams like last year (PSU and OSU). That's the max per conference. I suspect another BCS game will be put into play, especially since these fucks are so opposed to ANY type of playoff system.

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/admincpanel/../../pics/toiletpaper.jpg WTFDetroit’s Morning Constitutional
With Zip Goshboots

May 6, 2009

Should the Big Ten add Another Team?

In a word: “YES!” In two other words: “Notre Dame!”

It is time for the Big Ten to grow up. The conference is being, nay, has been passed by the SEC, the Big Twelve, and the ACC is nipping at its heels. I speak of course, mostly in a football sense—and face it—football is King. Michigan State basketball just played for the national championship, but I guarantee you that they feel far better about beating Michigan in football for the first time in nearly a decade, and that one victory has given them a confidence in all of their programs, but most notably, a belief that they have passed Michigan up in football for good—and they are gloating all over the place.

College football is almost as big as the NFL, and the recruiting season in college football makes it almost as much of a 365-day sport as the draft, free agency, and coaching carousel makes the NFL. Think may people really care that the ACC is the best basketball conference? Not me. But EVERYBODY is vehemently on one side or the other of the SEC football argument.


Read this complete Morning Constitutional here. (http://www.wtfdetroit.com/index.php?page=morning5609)

So would you have the Big Ten get down on its hands and knees and beg ND? Maybe suck off some Catholics? ND always has and always will feel superior to any conference affiliation in football. Ain't happening no matter how many Constitutionals you write.