.....for making us the laughing stock of the league.

.....for blowing yet another draft.

.....for hiring an incompetent coach.

.....for not replacing that incompetent coach.

.....for trading away our starting PG for too little.

.....for trading away our best big and then bringing him back to a team so bad that he probably won't re-sign.

.....for watching all of our younger players actaully get worse.

.....for doing virtually nothing in free agency.

.....for doing nothing at the trade deadline.

.....for overpaying Maxiell.

.....for making the Palace the Cavalier's second home.

.....for even hinting at bringing back Mr. Tech, Rasheed Wallace.

Joe, Thanks for taking a great team and burning down to the ground. Please cancel my season tickets and my order for the Stuckey jersey.

We aren't the "laughing stock of the league". It doesn't make sense to criticize for both losing a good player and bringing that player back. Dumars isn't in charge of who Palace Entertainment tries to fill the Palace with and I haven't heard this "hinting" that Sheed will be back (but I might have missed something).

Other than that. I agree.

This is going to sound a little weird, but I actually wouldn't be totally shocked if Joe D walked away from the job in the next few weeks.

While the situation that he is in is a bit of a "kid in a candy store" opportunity for a GM, it's also a great time to hand it off to someone else and feel that you left things in a good place.

Davidson passing away could also factor into a decision like this.

Joe's got other aspirations outside of the NBA, his Fieldhouse chain is about to go national, and who knows what else he would like to do.

I can imagine the rollercoaster ride that he has been on could be quite draining.

Will he be invigorated by the possibility of another coaching search and a team rehaul, or will it drive him away?

I'm not saying that it's likely, I just think that it's possible.

calling the Pistons the laughingstock of the league is just making yourself look like a tool.

Joe BUILT all those things and he had every right to tear it down when he felt it was time.

Frankly, I'd rather have 15,000 cavs fans at the palace than one of you, so thanks in advance for promising not to show up anymore.

Shit, I'd rather have 100,000 Ohio State fans at the bighouse than one of you. They show more class.

My only regret is that you didn't finish by asking WTF to unrenew your membership so I didnt have to put up with more of your spoiled entitled garbage here. Oh, what could have been. This could have been a perfect moment.

At least we got you out of the Palace, although I doubt swine like you has the balls to keep to his word. That alone would have been worth a 39-43 season. You're every bit the cancer Michael Curry is.

calling the Pistons the laughingstock of the league is just making yourself look like a tool.

Joe BUILT all those things and he had every right to tear it down when he felt it was time.

Frankly, I'd rather have 15,000 cavs fans at the palace than one of you, so thanks in advance for promising not to show up anymore.

Shit, I'd rather have 100,000 Ohio State fans at the bighouse than one of you. They show more class.

My only regret is that you didn't finish by asking WTF to unrenew your membership so I didnt have to put up with more of your spoiled entitled garbage here. Oh, what could have been. This could have been a perfect moment.

At least we got you out of the Palace, although I doubt swine like you has the balls to keep to his word. That alone would have been worth a 39-43 season. You're every bit the cancer Michael Curry is.

Your name calling shows just how classy you are! I'm glad that you are happy at how Joe has run the team and believe that as long as you did a good job before, you can screw it all up and it's ok. I don't agree.

Spoiled or entitled would be whining about the team losing or a single bad move. The issue is that Joe has made bad move after bad move and at the very least deserves some criticism.

I admit that I am a horrible fan. How dare I want the team to succeed. How dare I take offense when we are laughed at on Sportscenter. How dare I criticize the GM for making bad moves. I guess that I should just be a mindless drone.

So you can just sit there and believe that everything will be ok and that Joe has done a great job and will fix everything.

If you don't like my posts, feel free to ignore them!

Agree that everyone has a right to post their POV

Agree that Joe has fucked up some moves

Disagree that he should be fired because we've had 1 really bad season (that saw us reach the playoffs as the #8 seed) since he took over.

Some people have unrealistic expectations and I think you, micknugget are one of those people.

If you don't like my posts, feel free to ignore them!


Or we can call you stupid.

Agree that everyone has a right to post their POV

Agree that Joe has fucked up some moves

Disagree that he should be fired because we've had 1 really bad season (that saw us reach the playoffs as the #8 seed) since he took over.

Some people have unrealistic expectations and I think you, micknugget are one of those people.

Yeah, would he change his tune with a great offseason.

Suppose we move Tay and Amir (picks if needed) for Bosh. Then suppose we get another big in here (Chandler/Lee/Boozer/etc). Would he then feel Joe should be fired? It's possible to come out smelling like roses on this one. If that happens, it was definitely worth the sting of a bad season.

Or we can call you stupid.

By the way, in the Grade Joe Dumars Poll, 47% gave Joe a D or F. Add to that the 17% that gave him a C and you have a majority that think he did an average to below average job.

This is going to sound a little weird, but I actually wouldn't be totally shocked if Joe D walked away from the job in the next few weeks.

While the situation that he is in is a bit of a "kid in a candy store" opportunity for a GM, it's also a great time to hand it off to someone else and feel that you left things in a good place.

Davidson passing away could also factor into a decision like this.

Joe's got other aspirations outside of the NBA, his Fieldhouse chain is about to go national, and who knows what else he would like to do.

I can imagine the rollercoaster ride that he has been on could be quite draining.

Will he be invigorated by the possibility of another coaching search and a team rehaul, or will it drive him away?

I'm not saying that it's likely, I just think that it's possible.
LOL, we should stockpile GMs now instead of SGs.

If Joe was going to leave, he wouldn't have let Hammond leave 5 minutes ago. Think about your conspiracies before you spread them please.

By the way, in the Grade Joe Dumars Poll, 47% gave Joe a D or F. Add to that the 17% that gave him a C and you have a majority that think he did an average to below average job.

That's for two reasons.

1) Curry sucks ass. If he's replaced by a decent coach then I'm fine with Curry having been the stop gap.

2) Until we see the space pan out, we can't give him a good grade for the move he made.

He did do a bad job.

LOL, we should stockpile GMs now instead of SGs.

If Joe was going to leave, he wouldn't have let Hammond leave 5 minutes ago. Think about your conspiracies before you spread them please.

You been hanging out with Gutz?

What is it with you people and "conspiracies" and "agendas"? Ever heard of an idle thought? Something to provoke the mind? Damn.

You been hanging out with Gutz?

What is it with you people and "conspiracies" and "agendas"? Ever heard of an idle thought? Something to provoke the mind? Damn.

Apparently that's not allowed here without ridicule and name calling!

We roll hard?

We were THE MOST underachieving team this year by far.

I posted this before, but if your team is losing cuz you have shitty talent is one thing, but our team had talent and was losing and just not showing up.

That is frustrating.

We were THE MOST underachieving team this year by far.

I posted this before, but if your team is losing cuz you have shitty talent is one thing, but our team had talent and was losing and just not showing up.

That is frustrating.
Hmm, if you go by start of year I expected us to make the ECF and lose basically.

After the trade I expected the 4th seed and possibly a second round exit.

Other underachieving teams:

Suns - missed playoffs, but still better than Pistons

Clippers - I think they expected to be in the playoff hunt at least with Camby, Davis and Randolph. They had 16 wins.

Knicks - many thought they'd compete for a playoff spot.

Toronto - probably pegged as a playoff team at least.

I'd probably say the Clippers were a bigger bust based on the players they added. I'd put the Pistons 2nd though for sure.

The Clippers didn't have Camby, Davis and Randolph for most of their games (not to mention Kaman). I wonder how many games those guys actually played together? Disappointing season, to be sure, but I don't know if "underachieving" fits for the Clips this year.

Right. They have excuses. I'm just saying going into the year I think you would have said the Clippers would be fighting for a road playoff series.

Outside Prince and Stuckey we didn't exactly have a full lineup either.

Rip played 67
AI played 54
Sheed played 66
Dyess played 62

The Clippers had Thornton and Gordon all year.
Davis played 65
Camby played 62
Randolph played 39
Kamen played 31

So they missed more games up front for sure, but 16 wins?

Not to make excuses for the Clips, but the fact that the West had 9 really good teams (and the rest were horrible) didn't help them much, either.

Thanks Joe Dumars!

One of the best moves that happened under Joe that he had ZERO to do with is Grant Hill signing elsewhere. I'm glad JoeD wasn't able to persuade him to stay.

No championship if Joe had signed him.

Tahoe keeps it positive.

Anybody know when Joe's postseason presser is scheduled for?

:no sacred cows:

Anybody know when Joe's postseason presser is scheduled for?

:no sacred cows:

Gl'enn,

It's tomorrow, per :langlois:

I now wish that the presser never happened. What a sad day for Pistons fans!

Fuck, I came here to see some criticism, and it's a bunch of koolaid.

When did you guys get so soft?

^UA?

wat!

Joe Dumars is dead to me...

Joe D is so good that he not only wins executive of the year awards, but he wins them for other GMs.

Spoild bitches... don't know lean years for the Pistons... It has to happen... it's the law of oldmofos

Spoild bitches... don't know lean years for the Pistons... It has to happen... it's the law of oldmofos

A memory of the lean years is what makes the second coming of Alvin Gentry so hard to stomach.

Spoild bitches... don't know lean years for the Pistons... It has to happen... it's the law of oldmofos

It's not an issue of being spoiled so much as knowing the warning signs of how the lean years began. We're standing in the middle of the road and already got hit by a skateboarder and a fat chick on a scooter and the bus is headed this way!

Pharaoh, I didn't know you wrote for the Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/221513-pistons-draft-history-since-joe-dumars-leaves-a-lot-to-be-desired)...

Mehmet Okur, Tayshaun Prince, Jason Maxiell and Rodney Stuckey. What do they have in common?

They are the few notable players that have been drafted by the Pistons since Joe Dumars took over in 2000. The rest of them were lucky if they lasted a year.

Here's a review of players that the Pistons took, and a look at who they could have gotten instead. Starting in 2000, which I believe was Joe Dumars first year being with the Pistons.



2000: Mateen Cleaves (14) and Brian Cardinal (54)

Cleaves lasted a year with the Pistons, never living up to his potential and college success. He was traded for Jon Barry and a first round pick which would end up being wasted.

Should of drafted: Hedo Turkoglu or Quentin Richardson

Cardinal at least made it two years with the Pistons, averaging 2.1 points with his career high then being nine points. Something decent did come of him though, he was packaged with Stackhouse to bring in Rip. They waived him after five games.

Should of drafted: This is hard as he was used to get Rip, and it was a second pick. If I had to go with someone it would be Ime Udoka.



2001: Rodney White (9) and Mehmet Okur (37)

Rodney was the ninth overall pick as he was 6'9". His main position? Shooting guard and he played some forward. Rodney was named the freshman of the year by ESPN. How could he be a miss? No one could match up in size with him or talent on most occasion.

Problem was he only played offense and had no respect for the coach. He played 16 games and averaged four points in eight minutes. He only lasted a year before being traded to Denver, where he did just as bad.

Should of drafted: Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, or Gilbert Arenas
He's calling him out for not taking a guy at 9 that didn't get picked in the first round? I don't mind the other two, but this one is stupid.

Mehmet was one of their best picks since 2000. He played two seasons for them, but he helped them win the 2004 NBA Championship. He was a big part of their success those two seasons. The only thing they got wrong was not re-signing him after his contract was up.
Agreed, he was one of my favorites that year. I was sad to see him go. He never complained once about being pushed to the bench. The only thing I hated was that he always went up with a soft layup instead of going hard and it got swatted.

Should of drafted: Mehmet Okur



2002: Tayshaun Prince (23)

Prince was again a very good pick, so the Pistons had two good picks in successive seasons. He would end up being a huge part of the 2004 NBA Championship and would be a starter for a long time. He is one of only two players from the championship team left (Rip Hamilton being the other).

Should of drafted: Tayshaun Prince



2003: Darko Milicic (2), Carlos Delfino (25) and Andreas Gliniadakis (58)

With three picks, there's no way they could screw up every single one of them right? WRONG! This was probably there worst draft yet since 2000.
Screwing up #9 worse than screwing up #2 and #25? Joe botched this draft, even if I say Delfino wasn't a terrible pick

Darko was on the team three years. His best season? He had a 1.8 points per game average. He claimed it was due to lack of playing time, but what could he expect with Okur and Wallace around? This was a terrible pick by the Detroit Pistons. He did finally have a nice run with the Magic in the 2007 playoffs.

Should of drafted: With this class anyone else would of been 10,000 times better, but here's a small list; Chris Bosh, Carmelo Anthony, D-Wade, David West, Nick Collison, Mickael Pietrius
Again, West was 18th, Collison was 12th, Pietrius was 11th. They should not have taken any of them with the #2. Fans would have, and should have, revolted

Carlos Delfino was the second SG/SF who was huge for his position At 6'6"-6'7"? taken by the Pistons—White being the first of course. Delfino didn't turn out to be much better at all. He played three seasons with the Pistons with his best scoring average about four points. He was traded to Toronto where has had a nice career.

Should of drafted: Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa, Mo Williams

Andreas was the last player taken in the draft. So there's not much to say about him. He never played for the Pistons.

Should of drafted: Matt Carroll, Marquis Daniels, Ronald Dupree (later signed by Pistons)
Can't fault someone for taking a flier on a 7'1" euro with the last pick in the draft. That way you can leave him overseas and see if he develops.



2004: Rickey Paulding (54)

Didn't last a year with the Pistons, and never really made it in the NBA.

Should of drafted: Damien Wilkins



2005: Jason Maxiell (26), Amir Johnson (56) and Alex Acker(60)

Jason, since signing with the Pistons, has been a very solid player. He turned out to be better than a lot of the people that were drafted in front of him. He was probably a steal in the draft and will be with the Pistons for a while.

Should of drafted: Maxiell, Brandon Bass (still like Jason better)
What about David Lee? Max and Bass are on par with each other stat-wise, but I'd say Bass is a bit better at this point. I like Max, but he wasn't a steal.

Amir Johnson was another player who ended up being solid for the Pistons. He's still a part of the Pistons and probably will be for a long time. This article was written 3 days ago. Like Jason, he was better than most taken in front of him and could be considered a steal.

Should of drafted: Amir

Alex Acker, the same one who was just traded to make cap space. He never turned out to be much with two stints on the Pistons both not being very successful.

Should of drafted: Josh Powell, Fabricio Oberto
Powell and Oberto? What about Calderon, Azubuike, Bynum, Hayes? What has Josh Powell done?


2006: Will Blalock (60)

Played 14 games for the Pistons averaging about two points. He was the last one chosen so much wasn't expected from him.

Should of drafted: Walter Herrman, Juan Barea, Chris Quinn



2007: Rodney Stuckey (15), Arron Affalo (27) and Sammy Mejia (57)

Stuckey has yet to blossom into the player everyone thought he would be, but it's only his third season. He still has a while to develop, and he has definitely been solid. He will turn out to be one of Dumars best picks.
Don't count your chickens before the hatch.

Should of drafted: Stuckey
Even if we redid this draft right now, is there anyone else you would have taken here? There's really not much after Stuckey.

Arron Affalo was just traded away to make cap space. He never really was a big part of the Pistons and he was a bad pick in my opinion. Another one of the two-year guys, his best scoring average was about five points. Which isn't terrible, but he was the star guard of UCLA and was supposed to be way more.

Should of drafted: Marc Gasol, Ramon Sessions

Sammy Mejia never suited up for the Pistons and now is in the Greek league playing for some team. He's still under contract to the Pistons though and may make a return.

Should of drafted: Too early to tell really but I would say Milovan Rakovic, or maybe D.J. Strawberry
Two guys that aren't in the NBA. Strawberry bounced out after a season. Rakovic is in Russia



2008: D.J. White (29) and Deron Washington (59)

D.J. was traded right after being drafted and he underwent surgery for growth and didn't play much. He ended up averaging nine points in the season. He could of been a special player for the Pistons.

Should of drafted: White and kept him.
We traded the pick. This isn't a Joe D draft pick. Shouldn't Sharpe and Plaisted be graded instead? And if you're going to grade it, we should have drafted Chalmers or DeAndre Jordan. You could even say Mbah a Moute. Whether you look at this pick or Sharpe

Deron Washington played for an Israel team this past season and signed a contract with Detroit on July 3. Ummm, what? It's too early to tell how he will do.

Should of drafted: Washington. He was the second to last taken and he was better than the last center taken.
That's debatable. We haven't seen either in the NBA at this point.

So there's the recap up until this season. I won't do 2009 yet as they have not even played a game yet. I had doubts about Daye being the next one and done though and so far he's proving me wrong. We'll see how they work out.

I think over the years Detroit and especially Dumars has gotten better at picking players but we need to keep them around for more than a year or so
I take that back, it couldn't have been written by Pharaoh. Whoever wrote this was an idiot.
I went into that article thinking it would be something interesting that was worth my time, and came out very disappointed.

It's funny/odd because I was going to ask P if he wanted to write something like that for the front page here.

Starting in 2000, which I believe was Joe Dumars first year being with the Pistons.

Good open, does wonders for the author's credibility.

It's funny/odd because I was going to ask P if he wanted to write something like that for the front page here.
I think that one would actually be worth our time. P wouldn't just be looking at the draft history and picking out names he recognized as "who they should have drafted".

This guy is indeed an idiot, re: not re-signing Memo and LOL@Amir

Is it me or is he thinking that Alex Acker and Arron Afflalo are the same person?

We did trade Acker at the beginning of the season....

I'd say they have the date wrong with him making that comment about Acker and the other comment about how Johnson will be with us for a long time, but he said Stuckey is in his 3rd year.

I wonder if that dude got paid to write an inferior article?

My posts on the sbuject at least take into account what pick slot we had (Gilbert Arenas at #9?), what the hype was at the time and where our team was positioned.

It seems this guy actually did what some accused me of doing: looking through the Drafts and plucking "name" players that we missed.

That's completely unfair and is just as stupid as Joe fucking up 2003.

And to be honest that 2003 Draft is probably the one that killed a dynasty. If we draft Bosh the whole Ben, Sheed, Prince, Rip, Billups core lasts longer and probably wins another title (maybe even another 2).

I seriously doubt Larry Brown would have hated Bosh. He might not have played a lot as a rook but I don't think Bosh would have got the Darko treatment.

BTW, I'm surprised Bleacher boy didn't mention the picks we sent away that got us Sheed. IIRC one of them became Josh Smith.

Good open, does wonders for the author's credibility.

Yeah, apparently it was too much work to look that up.

This guy needs to stop trying and be a hero with all this "should of drafted" stuff.

Vinny, bringing it back!

I seriously doubt Larry Brown would have hated Bosh. He might not have played a lot as a rook but I don't think Bosh would have got the Darko treatment..
hard to say. i mean LB's idea bigmen are defense first and hard work even in garbage time. Would Bosh hav been that and earned time? im surprised i missed this thread, hearing micknugget bitch about joe dumars like he's matt millen is kinda funny.

Even if we redid this draft right now, is there anyone else you would have taken here? There's really not much after Stuckey.


I really wanted Thad Young and then Al Thornton and then Nick Young in that order.

Stuckey not so much, because he went to a smaller school.

I seriously hope he pans out, because alot of pressure is on him. Is he the face of the franchise? No but I hope he comes out strong this season, and i think he will

I'm beginning to think this thread is not really meant to thank Joe...

38 minutes 2-10 5 REB 6 PTS 17MM a year..that was your contribution from the two FA signings this evening..

2 bench players..

Nice use of the cap space..I mean it's not November..it's game 53..

Your 1st rounder is getting DNP's..

Outstanding roster management

I just threw up in my mouth.

I lost a lot of faith in Joe these last few days. It pains me to say that.

I lost a lot of faith in Joe these last few days. It pains me to say that.

Just wait until he overpays Stuckey this summer.

The thread starter lacks the detailed insight of each decision... very simplistic approach.... a lil reseach and historical perspective can be an eye opener.

Quick question... name 5 better GM's in the past decade.

We're gonna suck this year.


Ok.


Hey we suck, you tricked us!


WTF??!!

Where'd Joe tell us that?

He did say this would be the first year he didn't intend to contend. He did not tell us that as a part of this plan we'd add pieces that would never be a part of any contender.

I seriously can not believe this.

Kwame Brown's value was at all all-time high and Joe didn't move him?

Couldn't even get involved in a single trade where Kwame goes to the Kings or the Rockets or the Knicks and we get something/anything?

This is just really, really sad

He wasn't allowed to.

Instead of Kwame, the salary that we shed was Tom Wilson's, is Joe next?

He wasn't allowed to.

Proof?

I'm guessing you're right but was it stated anywhere that ownership did not want to add salary?

We're not even close to the tax threshold.

Guy was never even mentioned. No one came out and said it, but a dozen teams were looking to shed salary and not once was it mentioned as an option despite the room you mentioned.

Quick question... name 5 better GM's in the past decade.

Here's the way I see it:

From 2000-2005 everything Joe touched turned to gold. He was fantastic. We would be scratching our heads on a move, and no matter what, we made out better. (this excludes drafting - that's a different thread)


2000 - Lose Hill, get Atkins and Wallace. They both turn out to be a huge part of our turnaround, and Wallace turns out to be the most loved Pistons of this generation.
Trade fan favorite Jerome Williams for Corliss Williamson.
2001 - Fire Gervin, hire mostly unknown Carlisle. Carlisle leads us to back-to-back 50 win seasons.
2002 - Trade fan favorite and only all-star Stackhouse for a skinny, young and unproven Hamilton. Sign journeyman Chauncey Billups for $6million a year. They go on to be the best starting backcourt in the NBA for 5 years.
2003 - After going to the conference finals, fire Carlisle. Hire journeyman coach (but very good coach) Larry Brown. I know all of us were scratching our heads when this happened.
2004 - Aquire Rasheed Wallace for a bag of dog turds and get Mike James as a throw-in. WIN TITLE.
2005 - Get world-beater Carlos Arroyo for nothing. Get to within one mistake of winning back-to-back championships.

After that, it's like his deal with Satan wore off. Because every move he made turned out to be wrong.
2005 - Hire Flip Saunders. He was fantastic in the regular season, but he lost the team and they get embarrassed in the ECF.
2006 - Lose face of the franchise Ben Wallace. Sign Nazr as replacement. Sign Chris Webber. Get destroyed by LeBron in playoffs.
2007 - Do nothing significant in the offseason except draft Stuckey.
2008 - Ugh. Hire MICHAEL CURRY. Trade Chauncey for AI. Sign Kwame. Extend Rip.
2009 - Sign Gordon and CV. Hire Kuester (still up in the air). Still waiting for a true point guard.
2010 - Do nothing at the deadline, even though we have no future.


I'm hoping this is a 5 year cycle with him - 5 years on, 5 years off. Because it's been 5 years of shit.

The team will be in neutral until new ownership. All we can do is listen to the sweet angelic voice of George Blaha.

Nice list, Mo.

He did bring in Ben Wallace and Chucky, but it wasn't his choice. He wanted Hill. Hill bailed on him. So due to circumstances beyond JoeD's control, he ended up with Ben. Maybe he did have to bargain really hard to get Ben. But Ben was relatively unknown at the time, iirc.

And didn't Joe try to sign CWeb when he was still a force and CWeb didn't even visit the Piston's? CWeb said, I didn't meet the Pistons cuz I knew I would have signed with them or something. What a load of crap. But my point is Joe couldn't even get a visit from FA CWeb.

If I remember correctly, Joe D asked for Atkins and the Magic's choice of one of another group of players which included Ben Wallace and I can't remember who else, Monty Williams or Bo Outlaw maybe . The Magic chose to give up Ben.

Here's the way I see it:

From 2000-2005 everything Joe touched turned to gold. He was fantastic. We would be scratching our heads on a move, and no matter what, we made out better. (this excludes drafting - that's a different thread)


2000 - Lose Hill, get Atkins and Wallace. They both turn out to be a huge part of our turnaround, and Wallace turns out to be the most loved Pistons of this generation.
Trade fan favorite Jerome Williams for Corliss Williamson.
2001 - Fire Gervin, hire mostly unknown Carlisle. Carlisle leads us to back-to-back 50 win seasons.
2002 - Trade fan favorite and only all-star Stackhouse for a skinny, young and unproven Hamilton. Sign journeyman Chauncey Billups for $6million a year. They go on to be the best starting backcourt in the NBA for 5 years.
2003 - After going to the conference finals, fire Carlisle. Hire journeyman coach (but very good coach) Larry Brown. I know all of us were scratching our heads when this happened.
2004 - Aquire Rasheed Wallace for a bag of dog turds and get Mike James as a throw-in. WIN TITLE.
2005 - Get world-beater Carlos Arroyo for nothing. Get to within one mistake of winning back-to-back championships.

After that, it's like his deal with Satan wore off. Because every move he made turned out to be wrong.
2005 - Hire Flip Saunders. He was fantastic in the regular season, but he lost the team and they get embarrassed in the ECF.
2006 - Lose face of the franchise Ben Wallace. Sign Nazr as replacement. Sign Chris Webber. Get destroyed by LeBron in playoffs.
2007 - Do nothing significant in the offseason except draft Stuckey.
2008 - Ugh. Hire MICHAEL CURRY. Trade Chauncey for AI. Sign Kwame. Extend Rip.
2009 - Sign Gordon and CV. Hire Kuester (still up in the air). Still waiting for a true point guard.
2010 - Do nothing at the deadline, even though we have no future.


I'm hoping this is a 5 year cycle with him - 5 years on, 5 years off. Because it's been 5 years of shit.
Flip could have been the best available at the time.... what other coach AVAILABLE did better?

2006- Lost the face of the franchise in Ben?... dude was way overpaid... just ask Chicago & Cleveland... good move

Nazr, was the only decent big available for our MLE (the price of keeping the core together for another run)... CWebb was a cheap one year fill in... not a big risk

2007... just drafted Stuckey... still considered a good pick for #15...
We didn't have much FA $s to spend that year.

2008- Agreed, The Curry hire sucks on all levels...
I still like the CB trade... considering that we went down the same road with this cast... we would still be wannabe's with Chauncey's contract today.
Extending Rip was questionable even though he's consistently been our most productive player.
I'll help your cause by adding the Jmax signing... he was playing well b4 he inked the deal... then the he turned on the suckage switch....still too much cap for a reserve.

2009- Yes these FA signings were questionable... it was also a turrible year for FA's.... nobody will know if Joe got any decent offers for the expirings of Dice & Sheed....
I Absolutely hated the CV signing.
Guaranteed, if Joe just sat on the cap space there would have been rebellion.

I was hoping we would have drafted Collison as our "true PG"
How old was Chauncey before they started calling him a true PG?
Or how old would Chauncey be before we have another legit chance at a ship?

2010- Did nothing at the deadline... maybe he could have traded Rip for the garbage that was being offered.... reminds me of the song "Your cash ain't nothin' but trash"... "nothing" is better than losing your ass.

Why do we leave out the good moves?
This years draft picks.
Darko for Stuckey
Drafted Afflalo
Signed Dice
etc

The reality is most GM's have a long list of failures... there's a reason JD was voted top GM of the past decade.

One more time... name 5 GMs (with tenure) better in the past 10 years.

'

Not gonna say Joe has been shit for 10 years but here are some dudes that have been pretty good:

Pop - how many titles for the Spurs? Transition from the Admiral Era to being All About Tim.

Riley - transition from contender with Zo/Hardaway to title winner with Shaq and Wade

Jerry West - MADE the Lakers of Shaq and Kobe

Mitch Kupcake - Re-made the Lakers after Shaq's departure

The Nelsons (Love & Affection lol) - Don't know what Dallas' record is in the last 10 years but it's gotta be pretty fucking good. Got blasted for drafting Dirk and yet he's been the cornerstone for the franchise for years and they somehow manage (Cuban) to continually switch and swap players around the big fella and remain right up there.

BTW, I don't hate the Nova signing. I think it's a good one. We needed a big that can score and he's young, talented and capable.

The problem was signing Ben Gordon with Rip still here.

If I remember correctly, Joe D asked for Atkins and the Magic's choice of one of another group of players which included Ben Wallace and I can't remember who else, Monty Williams or Bo Outlaw maybe . The Magic chose to give up Ben.

John Amaechi, IIRC

Before we extended Rip at the start of the 2009 season, we had an expiring 2008 All-Star in Sheed who we weren't extending, and soon-to-be-expiring 2008 All-Star in Rip who was still productive but would be on the wrong side of 30 with a couple seemingly-talented SGs (Stuckey, Afflalo) behind him.

We couldn't get anything in a trade? WTF?!

BTW, I don't hate the Nova signing. I think it's a good one. We needed a big that can score and he's young, talented and capable.

The problem was signing Ben Gordon with Rip still here.
I agree on this. Signing Nova as a big that can score for that price wasn't a terrible move. Signing Gordon instead of a defensive-minded C to pair with Nova was. Ben's a good stop-gap but you've got to have more than that. If we grab a C and a backup true PG, use Stuckey as a PG/SG, and skip the Gordon signing, then we're in a completely different situation right now.

Mxy:

Which makes me wonder where Joe thought the team was going in July 2008. Did he think it could remain in the top 4 without a massive change or did he see it facing the slow and steady decline.

Its obvious we were headed for the slow and steady decline but the question should be asked:

Why did it take Joe Dumars so long to see it? One could argue that even the Billups trade is not an admission of "we're done". One could claim it's Joe's last roll of the dice, Iverson playing the 2009 version of Rasheed - the bad boy scorer who could maybe (LOL) win a ring in Detroit and complete his career.

It wasn't until the Iverson thing blew up in Joe's face did it really hit home that WOW - the last 2 seasons hadn't been kind to us. We lacked young assets and we were not smart enough to stockpile draft picks while we were contending.

In hindsight we should have been smarter. A lot smarter. We should have traded our good role players for cap relief AND draft picks. We should have certainly drafted better.

The lack of young assets and/or picks is a main reason why we can't move Rip. Yeah, his contract ain't great but he does contribute and in an age when every dude needs the ball for 20 seconds before he can score Rip is actually quite useful (in the right system) as a legit decoy floating off screens or as a legit #2 option.

But why would any team take Rip on his own?

If you're a contender he's worth the risk. A contender might give up expirings, but not much else.

If you're not a contender then why the fuck do you want Rip? To become a playoff team? That's possible - but I think most teams aren't willing to take Rip straight up.

Without a couple of cheap young guys to package with Rip it's a hard trade to make. With 2 cheap young guys thrown in you can convince the other GM on the line that "in reality you're getting Rip for half of that $10 mil cause those young guys are really worth double their salary"

I agree on this. Signing Nova as a big that can score for that price wasn't a terrible move. Signing Gordon instead of a defensive-minded C to pair with Nova was. Ben's a good stop-gap but you've got to have more than that. If we grab a C and a backup true PG, use Stuckey as a PG/SG, and skip the Gordon signing, then we're in a completely different situation right now.

Hindsight being what it is I believe a starting salary of $9 mil for David Lee would have been enough to make the Knicks let him leave.

They have been planning for this coming off-season for 2 years. Ain't no way David Lee is gonna fuck it up for them.

Which brings us to the "Lee is or isn't a product of their system" debate...

Hindsight being what it is I believe a starting salary of $9 mil for David Lee would have been enough to make the Knicks let him leave.

...

Why is that the magic number?

Who knows if it was? But I bet we could have afforded to have the offer tied up for a week+ and still been able to sign BG since nobody was hot after him.

I bet the number couldn't have been too high though considering what they gave up to clear 6 mil in space recently.

The last 5-6 posts are like deja vu. Or Groundhog Day.

I'd bet the number was really high.

All of Pharaoh's and WTFChris' post are like deja vu. Or Groundhog Day.

Fixed.

Nice try Fool. Go ahead and find one of my old posts similar to the last one (talking about how much NY would have matched on Lee considering they sold the farm for cap space at the trade deadline). You might be able to try that joke in a Dumars draft mistakes thread but not here.

I'd be the number was really high.
Like how much? There is no way they'd match enough to lose Lebron space, that is for sure. Prior to the deal with Houston they had another 9.5 mil in salaries on their books for next year. That would put them at about 25 mil under the cap before min salary slot holds, which would add another couple million. So they'd have about 23 mil without matching Lee. I think there is no way they'd match on Lee for 9 mil without knowing they could move Curry. Perhaps they'd simply move Curry with future picks to get space, but a team like Houston might not see a pick 2 years down the road as enough to take on Curry (where as they did for Hill and Jeffries).

I'm going to make an inaccurate assumption and talk about it as though it's true so that my unimaginative suggestion fixes every problem with the Pistons. Then I'm going to pretend like everyone is dumb for not "seeing" it.
Everything you post.

Also, "nice try" is trademarked by Gla here.

Every damn thing we post on here is an assumption ass wipe. That is what opinions are. This board is completely pointless if we aren't allowed to express opinions.

And what did I post that was a fix? P talked about whether the Knicks would match. I said we probably could have afforded to find out and still got BG after that if they did. That's not a fix. It's an opinion on how we could have waited on BG if Joe really was interested in Lee.

But go ahead and just make wide generalizations instead of actually reading what I wrote.

I read what you wrote. It was terrible. It is terrible. It will always be terrible.

Did someone mention opinions?

I read what you wrote. It was terrible. It is terrible. It will always be terrible.


Apparently your brain has a gap between reading and comprehending then.

This post of yours is unfortunate because I had just read your Michigan thread contribution and thought there was hope for you yet.

Yeah, maybe I'll make up some trades based on getting shit all twisted and revising history to suite my taste so I can really contribute.

Fool - Yes, it is Groundhog Day.

I clearly remember typing that exact post in reply to Mxy at some point in the past... or maybe in the future.

I've been watching too much Lost and it appears I might be.

Or maybe I'm so worn out from contributing that I just can'r crack the "Fool Types Bullshit" code today?

Help a brother out, here Fool - are you really that pathetic or do you act like this for shits and giggles?

And Herm - $9 mil is the magic number cause I threw it out there. WTF? Are all you cunts on drugs or something? Everything seems so fucking serious and as soon as someone says "coulda got him for $9 mil" some idiot has got to claim "Fuck No! It woulda taken $10 mil"

Who gives a fuck? All this is just some nonsense to pass the time while our favourite team sucks monkey spunk this season.

No need to get all pissy with each other over some stupid shit.

Roll a fatty, fuck a fatty, crack a fatty. Whatever you prefer just do it and chill the fuck out some.

You speak of hindsight. I presumed you had some hindsight. My bad.

Excuse me oh Great One.

I certainly did not mean to alarm, harm, confuse or amuse you with my poor English.

I am willing to suffer whatever fate Your Highness requires.

Like maybe being forced to watch the 2009-10 NBA season of the Detroit Pistons?

ain't nobody got a sense of humour anymore? wtf happened to this place?

Not bad English, just bad posting. Truth is you have no more insight/hindsight than you ever have besides seeing Lee can be a feature player on a sub .500 team. The only one who knows the answer to the question of how much money we needed to offer Lee is Donnie Walsh. And the only people who know if Ben Gordon would have received an offer are the GMs of CHI and POR and TOR.

No one here was angrier about the signings of CV and BenG than I was. I thought it would ruin our franchise for 5 years. But I'm not going to pretend now that it was any more clear then than it was, and I don't think it's right for others to do so. People read these boards, people who don't know a lot about hoops, and they believe what you say.

Contribute better.

I don't understand why we aren't able to speculate anymore on here. What's wrong with seeing the Knicks mortgage their future for the cap space to per sure two max FA's and speculate that we might have been able to pry Lee away fairly cheap? Because we're not Donnie Walsh we can't speculate what the magic number might have been?

Well I guess we can't come up with trade ideas anymore because we're not the GM's involved.

And the only people who know if Ben Gordon would have received an offer are the GMs of CHI and POR and TOR.

Chicago wasn't going to pay Gordon anywhere near 10 mil. They have Rose and they'll want to sign Bosh, Amare or Johnson who are better players than Gordon.

Portland needed a PG, not a shooter. Plus they only had 8 mil in space anyway, so they weren't offering BG 10 mil.

The Raptors certainly could have offered him money instead of Turk. No way to know for sure, but they seemed to have been targeting Turk because he had shown he was a winner in the playoffs (BG had not).

Chicago wasn't going to pay Gordon anywhere near 10 mil. They have Rose and they'll want to sign Bosh, Amare or Johnson who are better players than Gordon.

Portland needed a PG, not a shooter. Plus they only had 8 mil in space anyway, so they weren't offering BG 10 mil.

The Raptors certainly could have offered him money instead of Turk. No way to know for sure, but they seemed to have been targeting Turk because he had shown he was a winner in the playoffs (BG had not).

YOU'RE NOT THE GM!

YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!!

YOU ARE WRONG AND HAVE LEARNED NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure that if we kept Chauncey if we wouldn't be in worse shape that we are now... no FAs... higher draft picks... but we might win a couple games in the first round... pffft.

I just wish we would have rec'd a player of his caliber in return.

Hermy: WTF? You can't be serious?

Out of that entire post you're bitching about me throwing out $9 million as a figure?

Would you be happier if I said $10 mil?



No one here was angrier about the signings of CV and BenG than I was. I thought it would ruin our franchise for 5 years. But I'm not going to pretend now that it was any more clear then than it was, and I don't think it's right for others to do so. People read these boards, people who don't know a lot about hoops, and they believe what you say.

Contribute better.

I'm under no obligation to educate people. I type what I type and if you, Fool or someone else don't like it then that's awesome.

If you felt that the signings of Nova and BG would ruin the franchise then you had every right to express that at the time.

You also have every right to express that feeling now, and if you so desire you also have the right to post any alternative options Joe should or could have looked into.

You also have the right to ignore any post or poster you deem "unworthy".

As for the "contribute better" line: I contributed some of my hard earned for the site. Not many people have. So I feel I have contributed "better" than most.

If you don't agree with that I don't give a fuck

BTW, since you are not a NBA GM, not a NBA Coach, (likely) not an NBA player how are you qualified to comment on the signings of Nova and BG?

YOU'RE NOT THE GM!

YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!!

YOU ARE WRONG AND HAVE LEARNED NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A few guys decide to team up on Chris and here's Zekyl making jokes at Chris' expense...

OR

Zekyl tries to be funny to lighten the situation by taking a shot at Chris...

Either way I'm not amused and not impressed.

If I need to consider who the fuck reads my posts and what educating I'm doing then you fuckers gotta do the same.

And I seriously doubt us enlightened individuals wanna send the message to those uneducated cunts reading this that it's cool to take a light hearted (or serious) shot at someone simply because a couple of other people are doing it too.

C'mon Zekyl - contribute better.

No one is teaming up on Chris.

Chris flipped out and won't stop with an argument he's so obviously wrong about no one agrees with him. Are people supposed to support his absolutely wrong ideas just so he's not all by himself?

No one is teaming up on Chris.

Chris flipped out and won't stop with an argument he's so obviously wrong about no one agrees with him. Are people supposed to support his absolutely wrong ideas just so he's not all by himself?

Of course people aren't supposed to support him when he's wrong.

I just think people not directly involved in the debate need to keep their guns in the holster and save their pot shots for something they're actually involved in.

You and Chris can debate the "Could we have kept Memo?" question all you like (my memory is hazy at best but couldn't Joe have renounced Sheed and retained Memo instead?).

I think it's entertaining - and that's a good thing.

Oh btw - feel free to throw my name around while you're having this "debate" with Chris. After all, the only topic I discuss on this whole site is Joe's poor draft record.

Yes, Joe could have kicked sheed to the curb after winning the 2004 championship with him and been able to match any offer for Memo. Which no sane person would have even considered.

Yes, Joe could have kicked sheed to the curb after winning the 2004 championship with him and been able to match any offer for Memo. Which no sane person would have even considered.

Obviously Joe should not have done that...

Ummm

IF Kstat is correct and Joe could have renounced Sheed and retained Memo isn't Chris actually correct?

Sure, no one would have done it, or agreed with Joe if Joe did it but Chris isn't arguing if it was the "sane" thing to do.

I believe Chris simply argued that it was POSSIBLE for Joe to retain Memo.

According to Kstat Chris is correct.

Or is Kstat remembering it wrong?

It was certainly possible. Stupid, but possible.

Sheed was a $19 million expiring contract. he made almost as much in 2004 as Chauncey, Rip, Tayshaun and Ben combined. Memo was a restricted free agent (that we could not go over the cap to re-sign).

Had we cut sheed loose, we would have easily been able to match Utah's offer sheet for Memo and retain him. Joe actually cut Memo loose knowing he would not let go of Sheed, as a favor, allowing him to join Utah immediately.

Note that we wouldn't have had the MLE had we signed Memo. So, we probably wouldn't have been able to sign Dice. We would have likely kept Corliss as 6th man instead of trading him (which would've actually worked out owing to new rules, but no one could've known that). Not signing Sheed (at least as part of a S+T) would've been a big-time hit to the team, even if Memo were as good as Sheed.

I'm sure we're all happy we kept Sheed.

I believe people assumed Chris was wring. He was right!

Let's all move on and focus on our stellar team.

In fairness, this would probably be a lot different discussion if we hadn't choked against the Spurs. We should have won another title, which I am sure Joe knows as well. I can't put the fact that we blew a couple more chances on Dumars.

I believe people assumed Chris was wring. He was right!

At any time Joe could buy out the entire team. So it's always POSSIBLE to sign ANYONE.

Doesn't make Chris right.

a buyout wouldnt have been necessary in that instance. Sheed's contract had expired, but he still had a $19 million cap hold on the Pistons because they had his bird rights. All Joe would have to do would be renounce Sheed's rights and he would have had the cap space to re-sign memo.

Hermy: WTF? You can't be serious?

Out of that entire post you're bitching about me throwing out $9 million as a figure?

Would you be happier if I said $10 mil?



I'm under no obligation to educate people. I type what I type and if you, Fool or someone else don't like it then that's awesome.

If you felt that the signings of Nova and BG would ruin the franchise then you had every right to express that at the time.

You also have every right to express that feeling now, and if you so desire you also have the right to post any alternative options Joe should or could have looked into.

You also have the right to ignore any post or poster you deem "unworthy".

As for the "contribute better" line: I contributed some of my hard earned for the site. Not many people have. So I feel I have contributed "better" than most.

If you don't agree with that I don't give a fuck

BTW, since you are not a NBA GM, not a NBA Coach, (likely) not an NBA player how are you qualified to comment on the signings of Nova and BG?

I state my opinions as opinions. Others state theirs as fact.

Yes, I agree with that Kstat (and we've touched on it multiple times in the discussion).

My point was that the argument was never what was "possible" for Dumars to do because in the end any GM can theoretically buy out any contract and reduce the debt burden on the team's salary cap.

It was certainly possible. Stupid, but possible.

Sheed was a $19 million expiring contract. he made almost as much in 2004 as Chauncey, Rip, Tayshaun and Ben combined. Memo was a restricted free agent (that we could not go over the cap to re-sign).

Had we cut sheed loose, we would have easily been able to match Utah's offer sheet for Memo and retain him. Joe actually cut Memo loose knowing he would not let go of Sheed, as a favor, allowing him to join Utah immediately.

If I remember correctly, letting Sheed go would have left us with around 8 Million in caproom. It was gonna be really close as to whether we'd have enough to match an offer for Memo.(Especially since Utah had loads of caproom and could have conceivably upped their offer.

Memo wasn't getting off the pines cause LB didn't like his defense

Yes, Hermy - I constantly state my opinion as a fact.

And Fool - a buy out was never mentioned by Chris. You bringing it up now is transparent IMO

Not really worried what the wrestling guy thinks of my opinion.

Thanks though.

I didn't think you were worried.

You don't strike me as a guy who worries about much.

Oh, damn - forgot to preface this post with IMO

Kinda surprised that no one posted D'antoni's comments about the Pistons.

Kinda surprised that no one posted D'antoni's comments about the Pistons.

I am full of google fail. What did he say?

I can't post links from my phone, but I read it this morning in the espn.com game recap.

its a douchbag comment only a new york coach could make.

Terrible season, no draft pick, your all-star is going to bolt because you refused to pay him last summer, but things are all sunshine because you play in new york.

its a douchbag comment only a new york coach could make.

Terrible season, no draft pick, your all-star is going to bolt because you refused to pay him last summer, but things are all sunshine because you play in new york.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with the validity of his comments. But the fact that you rushed to Dumar's defense is about the least shocking thing in the world.

never said his comment about the pistons being medicore wasnt valid, did I?

Of course, the fact you rushed to bring it up in the first place wasnt the least shocking thing in the world.

My friends call me "Glan-O." and the O stands for "objectivity".

you seem to have "objectivity" confused with "whiny, negative asshole.'

Shucks, I was hoping for one of your typical 4th grade comebacks instead.

If someone gets around to posting the actual comments, might as well post the Kevin McHale comments about the Pistons too. Saw them on Mlive this morning.

Comments are just someone's opinion.

:)

The Pistons are the example the Knicks can't afford to follow. Detroit used the money it freed up in last season's franchise-altering, Chauncey Billups-Allen Iverson deal to sign Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, good players who aren't even starters.

"I don't want to point them out (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=300303018), but we don't want to get stuck in mediocrity and we could have done that," D'Antoni said before the game. "We could've put a Band-Aid on some holes and be more competitive and right now that seems like a good idea, even to me, because we have to go through this. But this summer would not have been a good idea."


“A cautionary tale (http://pistonspoint.blogspot.com/2010/03/mchale-rips-detroits-signing-of-gordon.html) of all GMs that have a few bucks in their pocket; sometimes its better not to spend it," McHale said. "They spent it on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, two nice players but not players who are going to probably be able to carry your team. They are nice complementary players."

If there's a secret Real GM message board somewhere, there's no doubt that one of them started a LOL@JoeD thread.

The fact that you have 2 dudes expressing this opinion in public shows what a mistake Joe's off-season was....

and how far Joe has fallen in the last few years.

Ain't no way anyone would have doubted him 3 or 4 years ago. No matter what he did or where he spent the cap no one would have said it was a mistake.

Now? McHale sucked as a GM for so long his buddy had to fire him and good ol' Mike ain't won shit in the league with his chuck it style.

But those 2 are bashing Joe?

I wonder what the smart GM's think?

The fact that you have 2 dudes expressing this opinion in public shows what a mistake Joe's off-season was....

and how far Joe has fallen in the last few years.

Ain't no way anyone would have doubted him 3 or 4 years ago. No matter what he did or where he spent the cap no one would have said it was a mistake.

Now? McHale sucked as a GM for so long his buddy had to fire him and good ol' Mike ain't won shit in the league with his chuck it style.

But those 2 are bashing Joe?

I wonder what the smart GM's think?

Can anyone counter this post?

I dare ya, I double dare ya?

Oh, he'll try.

Did I miss something?

Too long to post, but you should read this:

http://www.emptythebench.com/2010/03/05/ben-gordon-free-agent-bust/

Too long to post, but you should read this:

http://www.emptythebench.com/2010/03/05/ben-gordon-free-agent-bust/
That was very hard to read... The truth hurts.

depressing

RIP and Gordon aint working on this team, big suprise...

if you invest so much money, these guys should play 30+ minutes, its not like this team can get any worse...at least to get them out of their funk

the Pistons are the 2nd worst offensiv team in the NBA, dead last in 3%PT, 28th in 3 points made...if there is one thing these 2 guys can do, its shoot the 3, let them shoot as many as they want! so they can find a rhytm or sth, they can score why don't let them?


also, the Pistons are still playing a slowass halfcourt style- im guessing still top 5 in slowest pace in the leauge-, this is kinda retarded, this team suckz defensivly anyway, you have to run more, create more easy opportunitys to score, but as long as RIP& Prince are on this team i guess that wont happen...

IMO:

Whenever you spend $10 mil on a player you better get a legit stud.

Right now the organisation pays 3 different dudes $10 mil or more and NONE of them are legit studs.

They're all quality players but we're spending so much of our cap on guys that are complimentary pieces despite us lacking ONE stud.

IF we had Tim Duncan we'd be fucking awesome. But we don't have Tim Duncan. Shit, we don't even have Al Jefferson.

We've got a bunch of decent players and unless we get lucky in the Lotto that ain't changing for a while...

Unless Joe can take his most prized asset (Stuckey or the Lotto pick) and combine it with Rip to get us a legit stud

Just found this via some links regarding BG and Nova being shithouse:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AoBwzh46GDTZ_.DXqPmDl_68vLYF?slug=aw-dumarslebron110308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

It's all about how Joe could have positioned us as serious players in the 2010 off-season without being a pathetic excuse for a team...

Oh, and for the record:

We went into last off-season armed with over $16 mil in cap space and 4 draft picks. We needed big men but got none.

We go into this off-season armed with 2 draft picks and the MLE. We need big men.

Thanks Joe.

the Pistons are the 2nd worst offensiv team in the NBA, dead last in 3%PT, 28th in 3 points made...if there is one thing these 2 guys can do, its shoot the 3, let them shoot as many as they want!
Rip's a spot 3P shooter... not a volume one.
He needs to stick to his mid-range game.

Not sure if you guys are aware but there is a sports analytics conference being held in Boston right now. Guys like Cuban, Morey (Rockets), Pritchard (Blazers) and other team reps are there learning about statistical analysis and how to use raw data to better your teams etc. Guess what team isn't represented?

We have an old school mentality in our front office and it isn't getting the job done.

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/2010/agenda/what-geeks-dont-get-the-limits-of-moneyball/

The best part is reading the multiple paragraphs about all the panelists. then seeing bill simmons only gets one sentence.

Not sure if you guys are aware but there is a sports analytics conference being held in Boston right now. Guys like Cuban, Morey (Rockets), Pritchard (Blazers) and other team reps are there learning about statistical analysis and how to use raw data to better your teams etc. Guess what team isn't represented?

We have an old school mentality in our front office and it isn't getting the job done.

none of the teams there have won titles.

Winning a title means you're smart.

Ainge did an incredible job with his picks. Rondo, Perkins, Baby, Jefferson and Gomes were all super picks for where they were taken, and he got Ray Allen for another.

Can't knock him for a second.

But his buddy delivered him the ring.

Anyone think Ainge had a lil help being the GM of the Celts?

But his buddy delivered him the ring.

Never could have done it if he didn't steal Jefferson.

The "Never could have done it IF" list is longer than that

No McHale and his loyalty to the C's, no ring.

This is a pretty good thread most of the way through, IMO.

Let's remember Ainge brings in a "brain type" doc to add to their data.

Going to a sports analytics conference, or hiring a dude who is an "expert" in that field srely can't be viewed as bad thing.

The more information you have the better IMO. If some consider your methods uncoventional then so be it.

Every team that wants to win should do anything and everything they can to improve.

Not attending is pretty fucking stupid, even if you go just to see what all the hoopla is about.

Let's remember Ainge brings in a "brain type" doc to add to their data.
That's how they got Scalabrine... really.

Just gonna say that. But agree with the general point P is making. Can't really fault guys for attending. Especially since the word is there was a Krispy Kreme across the street from the convention center.

Unless you are doing something else to help your team.

No McHale and his loyalty to the C's, no ring.

Or, he still trades him for the best deal he gets, and that's it.

Unless you are doing something else to help your team.

Like what? Eating donuts?

Joe is getting fatter by the day yet the team has struggled all season.

I guess I can't be too hard on him though - the ownership situation may have destroyed any potential trades he was contemplating at the deadline.

I dunno did ownership tell him to sign up TWO SGs to 50 million dollar contracts? 100 mil for one position?

http://web7.twitpic.com/img/72908568-3dbfc87a70b167b6b91c45be2993b9c0.4b95623a-scaled.jpg

Tahoe and GD - ain't no one came and countered my post...

Don't know what you were waiting for - enlighten me please

His point about wasting our cap money was right but that's not rocket science. His point about "stuck in mediocrity" is wrong. We were mediocre for one season. Before that we were top 4 and this season we are bottom 4.

Being stuck depends on his ability/desire to move some wings and get a legit big. We'll know more after the draft I guess. This isn't hopeless (like the Knicks have been for years).

The weirdest thing for me isn't that we're gonna miss the playoffs.

It's that people seem to have forgotten that we finished in the top 4 for a long fucking time.

Now, unless you believe that Hammond was the mastermind behind our run how the fuck can you doubt Joe now?

Cause he didn't land a Franchise big in an off-season where exactly ZERO franchise bigs were available?

I'll bash Joe's draft record forever cause it's pathetic but when it comes to trades or free agency he's usually spot on...

Fuck all the negative shit - think positive

It's nice to stop by and see what became of this post.

It's both ironic and unfortunate that I was right and that the Pistons have really gotten that bad with little hope on the immediate horizon. Those of you who ridiculed me and called me an idiot can suck it because I was right, again, even though it was an unpopular opinion. For those who supported me having the right to voice my opinion, I thank you.

Hopefully new ownership is on the horizon which will bring us needed change. I would love to see a passionate owner like a Mark Cuban but that's probably a pipe dream. Peace!

It's nice to stop by and see what became of this post.

It's both ironic and unfortunate that I was right and that the Pistons have really gotten that bad with little hope on the immediate horizon. Those of you who ridiculed me and called me an idiot can suck it because I was right, again, even though it was an unpopular opinion. For those who supported me having the right to voice my opinion, I thank you.

Hopefully new ownership is on the horizon which will bring us needed change. I would love to see a passionate owner like a Mark Cuban but that's probably a pipe dream. Peace!



I told you so!

The weirdest thing for me isn't that we're gonna miss the playoffs.

It's that people seem to have forgotten that we finished in the top 4 for a long fucking time.

Now, unless you believe that Hammond was the mastermind behind our run how the fuck can you doubt Joe now?

Cause he didn't land a Franchise big in an off-season where exactly ZERO franchise bigs were available?

I'll bash Joe's draft record forever cause it's pathetic but when it comes to trades or free agency he's usually spot on...

Fuck all the negative shit - think positive

CBill for AI?
Wanted to sign Hill.
Signed CV and BG.

I don't know if he deserves as bad of a grade as his drafting, but 'spot on' is a stretch, imhfo.

I believe the Nova signing is a good one and that can be proven if we ever get a decent C to compliment his skills.

The BG signing could also be proven right if we were able to move Rip for this mystery big man.

And should Joe move Rip for that big man, and Nova and BG prove themselves worthy signings wouldn't that mean the Billups/Iverson swap was worth it?

At the end of the day we were going no higher with Billups here. Joe took a short-term hit for what hopefully is a long-term gain.

V could easily be the LA version of Lamar Odom here, but we need solid pieces in front of him.

CV could easily be a career bench player just like Maxiell...sure he's got a lot of talent, but he has to prove he can perform on a consistent level to be a starter in this league, and he never has done that til now...

also until RIP is moved the BG signing is a disaster, Gordon needs 30+ minutes badly to be effective

also until RIP is moved the BG signing is a disaster, Gordon needs 30+ minutes badly to be effective
The 2005 SMOY needed only 24 mpg to be effective.

I haven't seen anything from Charlie V as far as defense or rebounding to believe that he is anything more than an overpriced reserve. Those are pretty important traits for a PF.

Villanueva, Pistons stuck with each other





The scary thing about the entire Charlie Villanueva/John Kuester flap after Wednesday's game is the Pistons are absolutely married to Villanueva. No other team is going to take him, want him, so the Pistons better hope Villanueva suddenly learns how to play defense and play with the type of energy Kuester wants consistently. Villanueva has rarely done so this season for through his career. This increasingly looks like a Joe Dumars signing that will not work.



Freep or something.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=villach01&y1=2010&p2=jerebjo01&y2=2010