How'd Stuck do?

You can vote a grade of B and then vote whether he improved from last year or not. Meaning, I gave him a B last year and a B this year. He didn't improve much type of thing.

He improved a bit in some areas, but not quite as much as he would have had he not been subjected to a bull crap season.

After I voted a C, I thought maybe my expectations of him were too high. I listened to all the hype from JoeD, etc, and from what I expected to what we got, his grade is a C.

And he didn't improve much, imo, either. He could have grabbed this team by the short hairs, but he couldn't. He doesn't have that ability yet. Why'd you crown him so early Joe? You may have hurt his development.

I would've given him a B this year, if he'd come off the bench.

Since he didn't, I'm giving him a C-. Overall, he had his moments, but was average at best. I'm giving him credit for dealing with a difficult situation with AI and Curry, but he's not where we need him to be.

After one season, I'm actually pretty satisfied with the kid. I assume he would have been helped by running plays most of the season instead of Curry's "go out there and do some stuff" offense, but I didn't imagine smooth sailing.

Agreed with Fool. You can't blame the kid, with all of the turmoil surrounding the team and a piss-poor coaching turn by Curry. Veterans can deal with insufficient coaching, but Stuckey isn't a veteran.

The kid needs direction. He's not going to get that with Blurry.

High B to B+ for Stuckey.

He's the real deal. I agree with the others in that the turmoil and questions surrounding the team took its toll but overall he performed as well as you can expect.

Keep in mind that Stuckey is a starter.

At this moment, I'd take the starting PGs from ~15 teams ahead of Stuckey, and half those players are in their 20s with plenty in the tank --. Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Devin Harris, Jose Calderon, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Mo Williams for that matter...

There are 30 teams. Do the math.

There may be mitigating circumstances. I can't believe that Stuckey's gonna evolve into a playmaker under Binary Man's tutelage. But, let's not get our homer glasses too fogged up. We have a losing record. We have some big holes, and we have some marginal players. It's not all AI's fault.

So, the 2nd year man gets a roasting....

Poor outside shot - just cause you have speed to burn doesn't mean you can rely on that for your career. Exhibit A = Iverson = shitty FG%. Work on your shot so that it opens up your drive.

Needs to improve his handle as good is not good enough for a starting PG on a team with plans to be a contender.

Needs to become more consistent. Some games he vanishes.

I think his conditioning is lacking - might be due to the long NBA season (only a 2nd year player/first year starting) so he needs to work on that this off-season.

Work on leadership "skills" - too young to lead the team, is the new guy on campus but there are courses he could take to benefit himself and the team. It would be time and money well spent IMO.

Overall I think he coped pretty well with the Season From Hell.

To recap:

It was announced he was untouchable, on a team with Billups, Rip, Prince, Sheed and Dice! No pressure for the kid, right?

Then we trade Billups for AI and make it known to all that Stuckey is the starting PG!!! Fuck - nothing like pissing off your team mate (Rip - who lost his running mate and his starting spot for a 2nd year pro). Again - no pressure

Then it becomes clear that AI + Pistons + Curry = SHIT and that locker room would have been the worst place to be for a young buck that had been annointed by "the office".

I don't think many people have considered that Stuckey could have been under the pump big time this season, at least behind closed doors. He had to move the ball to all these vets who want the ball, he had to handle the extra minutes and responsibility that goes with starting and he had to deal with the fact that he was the reason Richard Hamilton - All-Star fucking player and Detroit fav - is coming off the bench (and not keeping his mouth shut about it either).

Throw in the total fuck up that is Michael Curry and DAMN!

Here's hoping his 3rd season is a hell of a lot smoother than his 2nd.

I'm going to be a little hard on Stuck. He has the tools to be a great player, I just don't know if he has the head for it. He can beat anyone to the basket at any time, but he panicks once he gets to the rim. He isn't the smartest player yet, but I can't see that improving unless you get a coach in here that can teach him how to play. His jump shot is solid when he trusts it, and he can score when he's in the mood. He's streaky, and that needs to improve. He flat out sucks on defense.

I need to see some major improvements by him for next season.

D+

That's an obnoxoius grade dude.

In no way is a D+ justified.

So we're just going to grade all of our players nicely because they're good guys and try hard? I like Stuck a lot, but he got worse as the season went on. As soon as he hit 40 against the Bulls, he did nothing the rest of the season. Have you noticed he doesn't even play in the 4th quarter anymore? He has all the tools, but he uses them once a month.

The Pistons are going to finish under .500 for the first time in 8 years. Should we give all our players good grades anyways?

The rest of that draft:


http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_no.gifhttp://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_team_207.gifhttp://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_selection.gif
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_01.gif Portland Trail Blazers Greg Oden (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/GregOden.html), Center, Ohio State http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_oden_g_1.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29%29 ;)
Seattle SuperSonics Kevin Durant (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/KevinDurant.html), Forward, Texas http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_durant_k_2.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29% 29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_03.gif Atlanta Hawks Al Horford (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/AlHorford.html), Forward/Center, Florida http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_hoford_al_3.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29 %29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_04.gif Memphis Grizzlies Mike Conley Jr. (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/MikeConley.html), Guard, Ohio State
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_05.gif Boston Celtics Jeff Green (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/JeffGreen.html), Forward, Georgetown (to Seattle) http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_green_j_5.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29%2 9;) http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_06.gif Milwaukee Bucks Yi Jianlian (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/YiJianlian.html), Forward, China http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_jianlian_y_6.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%2 9%29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_07.gif Minnesota Timberwolves Corey Brewer (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/CoreyBrewer.html), Forward, Florida
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_08.gif Charlotte Bobcats Brandan Wright (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/BrandanWright.html), Forward, North Carolina (to Golden State) http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_wright_b_8.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29% 29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_09.gif Chicago (from New York) Joakim Noah (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/JoakimNoah.html), Forward/Center, Florida http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_noah_j_9.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29%29 ;) http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_10.gif Sacramento Kings Spencer Hawes (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/SpencerHawes.html), Center, Washington http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_hawes_s_10.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29% 29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_11.gif Atlanta Hawks (from Indiana) Acie Law IV (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/AcieLaw.html), Guard, Texas A&M http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_law_ac_11.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29%2 9;) http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_12.gif Philadelphia 76ers Thaddeus Young (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/ThaddeusYoung.html), Forward, Georgia Tech
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_13.gif New Orleans Hornets Julian Wright (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/JulianWright.html), Forward, Kansas http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_wright_j_13.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%29 %29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_14.gif Los Angeles Clippers Al Thornton (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/AlThornton.html), Forward, Florida State http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_thorton_al_14.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27% 29%29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_15.gif Detroit Pistons (from Orlando) Rodney Stuckey (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/RodneyStuckey.html), Guard, Eastern Washington
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_16.gif Washington Wizards Nick Young (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/NickYoung.html), Guard/Forward, Southern California
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_17.gif New Jersey Nets Sean Williams (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/SeanWilliams.html), Forward/Center, Boston College http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_18.gif Golden State Warriors Marco Belinelli (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/MarcoBelinelli.html), Guard, Italyhttp://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_belinelli_m_18.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27 %29%29;)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_19.gif Los Angeles Lakers Javaris Crittenton (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/JavarisCrittenton.html), Guard, Georgia Tech
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_20.gif Miami Heat Jason Smith (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/JasonSmith.html), Forward/Center, Colorado State (to Philadelphia)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_21.gif Philadelphia 76ers (from Denver) Daequan Cook (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/DaequanCook.html), Guard, Ohio State (to Miami)
Charlotte Bobcats (from Toronto) Jared Dudley (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/JaredDudley.html), Forward, Boston College http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_23.gif New York Knicks (from Chicago) Wilson Chandler (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/WilsonChandler.html), Forward, DePaulhttp://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_chandler_w_23.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27% 29%29;) http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_24.gif Phoenix Suns (from Cleveland) Rudy Fernandez (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/RudyFernandez.html), Guard, Spain (to Portland)
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_25.gif Utah Jazz Morris Almond (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/MorrisAlmond.html), Guard, Rice
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_26.gif Houston Rockets Aaron Brooks (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/AaronBrooks.html), Guard, Oregon
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_27.gif Detroit Pistons Arron Afflalo (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/ArronAfflalo.html), Guard, UCLA
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_28.gif San Antonio Spurs Tiago Splitter (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/TiagoSplitter.html), Forward, Brazil
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_29.gif Phoenix Suns Alando Tucker (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/AlandoTucker.html), Forward, Wisconsin
http://www.nba.com/media/draft2007/draft07_draftboard_30.gif Philadelphia 76ers (from Dallas) Petteri Koponen (http://www.nba.com/draft2007/profiles/PetteriKoponen.html), Guard, Finland (to Portland)http://www.nba.com/media/video/bullet_video_9height.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:nbaVideo%28escape%28%27http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/draft/2007_kopanen_p_30.asx%27%29,escape%28%27blank%27%2 9%29;)

Who has outperformed Stuckey from that draft?

Durant is clearly a better player, but he was a consensus #1/2 player.

Horford, Young and Thornton are all solid young players. I would put Stuckey in the same group as them. Holes in their game, but definitely aren't busts. All 3 of them were taken before Stuckey too.

Cook, Fernadez, and Affalo were solid finds later.

Who else has show a damn thing?

To me if you give a guy a D+ you are saying he is below average. If there are only a couple players better than him in that draft (and he was taken outside the lotto), how is he below average?

The thing is, if you believed the hype on Stuck (I did) and all the 'he's untouchable' I thought that we could trade CBill will little drop off at that position. Not true.

Is that Stucks fault? I guess that's why we have polls.

So I guess I'm comparing him more to CBill than the rest of the draft Chris. That might be unfair on my part, but thats why he doesn't get a good grade from me.

And that he didn't improve much at all this year.

Compare him to Rodney Stuckey's expectations to begin the year, and subract however much you think handing him a starting role diminishes that. The draft plays no role, I don't hold that against Dyess.

I'd give him a C, but I presume Glenn and I expected the least of anyone. I think he is a 2 playing the 1 and did a poor job of it. I blame Joe and Curry for putting him there, but I give him the grade I do because he looked like a crappy 2 guard when he played like one.

How am I supposed to ignore the draft when he's in his first full year? Yeah, I think you grade all players based on your expectations, but to set them you have to use the draft as a guide. You can't use track record since he didn't really have one. Just because Joe says he's untouchable doesn't mean he's the best player on the team. It just means he thinks Stuckey is the hardest to replace on the team. I bet Atlanta thinks Horford is untouchable, but he's not the best player on that team. It's just hard to find good young centers.

Lots of people here set lots of expectations this past offseason that had nothing to do with his draft slot. Let's do that again now.

Well who expected him to be as good as Billups this year? We got rid of Billups because of his contract. If Billups still made MLE money he'd be here and Stuckey would be backup up him and RIP.

Well who expected him to be as good as Billups this year?

No idea, but that person should give him an F. Most here should give him a D. I gave him a C. I expected he would be a good young combo guard. He wasn't for the most part.

I didn't expect him to be an all-star, but I expected him to improve on several fronts. He did in the beginning of the year, but he "hit the wall" and never recovered. He has been considerably worse since the beginning of the season.

i blame Curry more than Stuck for his performance, he's clearly not Chauncey, but everytime i watch him it seems they didn't change the offense at all, just put Stuck in Chaunceys place, its obvious he can't succedd at that... grade C
but i am not worried Stuck has the desire the get better + the talent, its just a matter of time before he becomes a really good player...

I'd suggest ranking him against other starting PGs in this league, not his draft class. When I can't easily rattle off 15 PG (including many young ones) that are currently clearly better and would've led us to better performance this year, I'll consider Stuckey above average.

The biggest thing that bugs me is his condition, which is a large part of why I think he's so inconsistent. Stuckey can't distribute like a PG when he's tired.

I'd suggest ranking him against other starting PGs in this league, not his draft class. When I can't easily rattle off 15 PG (including many young ones) that are currently clearly better and would've led us to better performance this year, I'll consider Stuckey above average.

The biggest thing that bugs me is his condition, which is a large part of why I think he's so inconsistent. Stuckey can't distribute like a PG when he's tired.
I agree. i'd say he's slightly better than average for a starting PG. Thus I gave him a B.

I was disappointed with his conditioning, but hopefully now that he's seen that is a problem it will be addressed this offseason. I suspect that he focused on getting stronger last year after having a lot of problems finishing at the rim as a rookie. He also didn't know he was going to be the primary PG coming into the year (or even starting), so perhaps he didn't think he'd have the ball so much and conditioning wouldn't be as big a problem. he probably focused on becoming a better finisher last year.

Compare him to Rodney Stuckey's expectations to begin the year, and subract however much you think handing him a starting role diminishes that. The draft plays no role, I don't hold that against Dyess.

I'd give him a C, but I presume Glenn and I expected the least of anyone. I think he is a 2 playing the 1 and did a poor job of it. I blame Joe and Curry for putting him there, but I give him the grade I do because he looked like a crappy 2 guard when he played like one.

Spot on, Herm. I was off a lil bit.

I think its best to rate him compared to what you expected out of him at the begining of the year. He hardly played like someone that is "untouchable"

I agree. i'd say he's slightly better than average for a starting PG.




Wow.

Care to elaborate on the "Wow" at all?

PG's that are better for sure:

Paul, Deron, Nash, Calderon, Kidd, Rondo, Davis, Parker, Harris, Miller, Billups, Rose

In the same range as Stuckey:

Ford, Felton, Duhon, Sessions, Alston, Westbrook

Some are better facilitators but worse scorers.

That puts him in the 12-18 range for starting PGs. I suppose that is average for a starter.

Terry (who is a starting point guard elsewhere, but plays on a team with fat cash), Ellis, Mo freakin' Willaims, Kirky, bibby, gilbert, + your "for sure" list means it is impossible for him to be "slightly above average". He is by just any measure "at least a bit below average".

No one thinks he was average. His D is wretched. He is awful in clutch moments. He isn't sure who to get the ball to and delivers the ball poorly on set plays.

He may get better, you may have had very low standards, you can blame the coach, but anything better than a C+ baffles me.

Terry (who is a starting point guard elsewhere, but plays on a team with fat cash), Ellis, Mo freakin' Willaims, Kirky, bibby, gilbert, + your "for sure" list means it is impossible for him to be "slightly above average". He is by just any measure "at least a bit below average".

No one thinks he was average. His D is wretched. He is awful in clutch moments. He isn't sure who to get the ball to and delivers the ball poorly on set plays.

He may get better, you may have had very low standards, you can blame the coach, but anything better than a C+ baffles me.


-10

Terry (who is a starting point guard elsewhere, but plays on a team with fat cash), Ellis, Mo freakin' Willaims, Kirky, bibby, gilbert, + your "for sure" list means it is impossible for him to be "slightly above average". He is by just any measure "at least a bit below average".

No one thinks he was average. His D is wretched. He is awful in clutch moments. He isn't sure who to get the ball to and delivers the ball poorly on set plays.

He may get better, you may have had very low standards, you can blame the coach, but anything better than a C+ baffles me.

Last time I checked Kidd is the starting PG in Dallas. Ellis and Gilbert didn't do a damn thing this year, I'm not counting them. Bibby is at the same level as Stuckey IMO. I'll give you Mo Williams.

At any rate, an average PG under a terrible coach is pretty good for a sophomore that had to deal with ever changing roles on the team this season.

Wow.


Oh, and Jameer Nelson.

Anybody see what Simmons wrote about Stuck in his recent MVP article...?

Slammed him. But this is no surprise.

^Yet if he wore green and white, Stuckey would be the second coming of Christ himself.

I can't even read that guy anymore.

^Yet if he wore green and white, Stuckey would be the second coming of Christ himself.

I can't even read that guy anymore.


I agree, he's taken his bias to a whole new level this year.

He called J.J. Barea a poor mans Eddie House. I think I'd rather have Barea in the first place.

Speaking of Simmons, I understand ESPN is trying to get columnists from different cities to write opinion articles to spice things up (Scoop for Chicago, Simmons from Boston, etc...). But why the fuck did Detroit get Jamele Hill? Couldn't ESPN have done a little better than that??

Speaking of Simmons, I understand ESPN is trying to get columnists from different cities to write opinion articles to spice things up (Scoop for Chicago, Simmons from Boston, etc...). But why the fuck did Detroit get Jamele Hill? Couldn't ESPN have done a little better than that??

They probably wanted a local product.

So it was probably between either Jemele Hill or LZ Granderson.

Pick your poison.

I just want to know when sticky threads will be renamed to Stuckey threads.

I'd give him a C because of the wildly inconsistent structure from MCurry. Put Stuckey in a solid system, hell even Flip Saunders, and I think he would have had a more respectable season. Stuckey's learning curve is stunted by MCurry

Steve (Battle Creek, Mich.): No Rodney Stuckey for the U.S. Select Team in Las Vegas? Any word why he was not invited?

Langlois: I asked Tony Ronzone, director of basketball operations for the Pistons, who serves on the staff of USA Basketball as well for his international expertise. He was as surprised as anyone. He said some on the committee thought Stuckey didn’t finish the season very well. I don’t know how you could take Portland’s Jerryd Bayless over Stuckey. That’s a puzzler.

But he's as good as Derrick Rose!!!

You shut the hell up Zekyl!!

:emo kid:

You guys are immature. Don't you know that Stuckey averaged 24.3 ppg at Washington State and Derrick Rose only average 14.9? Stuckey is more than 150% better.

He's probably got a bigger wingspan, too.

And he's smarter and he dresses better!!!!!

Rose is better than Stuckey because we're able to compare their stats from their relatively short careers and automatically project that Rose will be better over the long haul. LOLZ!@@!

You don't need stats if you watched the playoffs.

One is a game changer and one...isn't.

Yes, Rose would have won the Cavs series for the Pistons...

Nice try.

Remember when Stuckey didn't change that Orlando series where Chauncey went down?

Strike 2.

Can't wait to see stuckey this year when he is the exact same situation as last year with 3 SGs. So is Gordon coming off the bench, thats how it is going to be?

Not even close to the exact same situation.

-He has a head coach.
-He doesn't have a 2-guard that needs an ISO play to score while he stands there and watches.
-He has a head coach.
-He has a team better suited to his strength, which is pushing the ball.
-He has a head coach.
-He won't have to wonder who is going to start next to him in the backcourt on any given night.
-He has a head coach.

Stuckey is going to shut you guys up.

Not even close to the exact same situation.

-He has a head coach.
-He doesn't have a 2-guard that needs an ISO play to score while he stands there and watches.
-He has a head coach.
-He has a team better suited to his strength, which is pushing the ball.
-He has a head coach.
-He won't have to wonder who is going to start next to him in the backcourt on any given night.
-He has a head coach.

If he added an outside jumper he could be leaps and bounds better.

and he very well could, but we can only deal with what we currently know for sure...

I want Stuckey to feel disrespected. I want him to take it out on every player who made this U.S. Select Team by outplaying them. I want him to humiliate them and make them cry for their mommies like the squealing little bitches that they are. Oh, and I want a pony...

Not even close to the exact same situation.

-He has a head coach.
-He doesn't have a 2-guard that needs an ISO play to score while he stands there and watches.
-He has a head coach.
-He has a team better suited to his strength, which is pushing the ball.
-He has a head coach.
-He won't have to wonder who is going to start next to him in the backcourt on any given night.
-He has a head coach.

lol, Kuester hasn't even coached a game and he's a legend.

And some of your assertions could certainly be debated, they're not 100% factual, at minimum.

We need to wait on Kuester to actually prove himself before we assume Stuckey finally has himself a real head coach.

Gordon will get his share of Iso plays. Not as many as AI did last year, but they'll still happen.

He won't have to wonder who is going to start next to him in the backcourt on any given night.

he may have to wonder that at some point, whats gonna happen when we go 10 under 500 and decide we need to switch things up.

Stuckey certainly has become the hot button issue now that Curry is gone, eh?

It's kinda like Darko days all over again.

I think K is arguing that Kuester is already more proven than Curry ever was, and if he's really the offensive guru that many claim he is, we won't have a stand-around-and-wait offense. These are reasonable points and as provable as the "Rose is better" argument.

It's kinda like Darko days all over again.
LALALALALALALA-I'M NOT LISTENING-LALALALALALALALA

Stuckey certainly has become the hot button issue now that Curry is gone, eh?

It's kinda like Darko days all over again.

Now you've done it, Danzig.

I'm assuming you're trying to heat this up to a new level because this is a pretty down and boring point in the offseason. You and I both know that Darko and Stuckey don't even belong in the same breath.

When has Darko scored 40 points? When has Darko even showed glimpses of his potential?

If you're comparing the current division of the fanbase on Stuckey to what happened with Darko, I suppose I can see some similar elements. I'm not sure how you were angling with that statement though, to be honest.

Keep it in context. The subject was "hot button issue" not "Stuckey is no better than Darko".

There are a lot of similarities to the discussions, that's all, so you can relax, lol.

"Nice try" Atticus.

Exactly.

I have to admit though, that I do love the defensiveness.

Just like I did with DARKO.

Gla never defends his points. He knows that would be hopeless.

Wait, defensiveness? Not really. I have no problem with the points you're raising, now that I understand them. I simply mistook what you were saying.

No worries, Atti, all in good fun.

What do I need to defend, Fool?

If you don't get a sense of deja vu during these Stuckey debates that takes you back to the Darko debates, then you don't have a very good memory.

IMO.

I do get a sense of deja vu but I think it's unfair to put that kind of crap on Stuckey.

The guy hasn't even played 2 full seasons.
His role changed in both seasons.
He's about to work with his 3rd coach.
He lost Billups and Flip (PG's love him) as mentors.
He had to deal with constant line-up changes.
He had a full training camp and season under "Coach" Curry!

Stuckey was also the #15th pick in the Draft.

Instead of hacking on the young man because Joe handed him the keys maybe we should discuss what the level of expectation is, what they should be and where he actually is in comparison?

Yes, Stuckey had a lot of hype and now people are talking about how he may not be that guy, and there is much debate as to whether he's going to reach all of that potential that the Pistons keep saying he has, just like Darko. Unlike Darko, however, Stuckey has actually gotten some minutes and shown he belongs in the NBA.

He was only drafted 12 spots ahaead of Afflalo, after all.

If Stuckey's contract came up today, would you offer him more than the MLE that it seems like Ramon Sessions is gonna get?

Probably a little bit more than the MLE, yeah. He's worth what CV was paid based upon potential alone, and any GM would probably look at how he performed with all the three ring circus last season and pay him.

At what point can he be held accountable for his own play?

There will be excuses available again this year (new coach, roster turnover, rebuilding, etc)

If he plays like he did last year, then there is no excuse. There is a new coach that will be an improvement over the old coach. The roster turnover is supposed to be an improvement and an infusion of young talent that can grow together. If he doesn't show any improvement this season, without the terrible head coach and the off-court drama, then he should be held accountable.

So when we deal AA no one gives a crap cause he's a scrub and a bum drafted way late in the first round...

But Stuckey is looked upon as a saviour?

Why?

It's not his fault Joe Dumars traded Billups.

You can't put all that anger onto Stuckey IMO. The kid played pretty well as a rook and as a soph despite several situations being fucked up.

Now he's about to have some stability and that can only be a good thing.

I (and others) cared about the Afflalo thing, you just chose not to read the whole thread if I recall correctly.

It was either a bad trade, a bad draft pick, or really bad planning on joe's part, IMO.

I read the whole thing, then Kstat did his usual duck and cover routine and I got gave up.

The fact is no one looked at Afflalo and thought he was a fuck up. He was actually better than we expected. Partly due to Joe's inability to draft and partly because he was decent.

Stuckey can play - there is no doubt about that. I just think many here have placed unrealistic expectations on a dude that wasn't even a Lotto pick.

Let's be objective here:

If Stuckey played for any other team would we, as fans think that team got a good pick?

IMO, yes we would.

No one is saying we didn't get a good pick. I thought Glenn was just asking when we start holding Stuck accountable. He wasn't accountable for last year. He was in a terrible situation. I wasn't saying he had to be a start this year. I merely said that if he doesn't show ANY improvement, then he has to be held accountable. If he shows some improvement, then there are no problems.

I am holding him accountable right now for his shooting. Regardless of the offense ran, players to adjust to, etc...he should be able to knock down jumpers from the outside when left open. If he can't do that (after his first full non injured offseason), then I'm holding him accountable for that. There is no reason he can't make the improvement that RIP did a few seasons ago.

There will be adjustments to new players and a new coach, so you can give him some time for his PG skills to adapt. But shooting is shooting regardless of who else is out there.

It's nice to see some specifics, thanks for not sidestepping or getting defensive.

Trying to determine when the "grace period" ends is a good (and also familiar) discussion to have, IMO.

It's nice to see some specifics, thanks for not sidestepping or getting defensive.
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/jimbo056/Ironic.png

I agree with general sentiment that this is Stuckey's year to demonstrate that he's ready. I'm expecting that he'll average at least 15 ppg, 6 apg, and improve his outside shooting significantly. I don't care if he doesn't have a three pointer solidly in his arsenal -- we'll have enough of those being thrown up by BG, CV, and the occasional few from Tay. Stuck's job, like last year, will be to set the table, penetrate, and keep his man honest with his shooting.

I'm hoping that Stuckey's shot was on the poor side last year because Joe and Curry had told him to keep plugging away with ball handling, thinking that he'd be the change-of-pace guard of the bench who would mostly penetrate. Then the Chauncey trade changed his role drammatically, and he couldn't quite catch up to the change.

It's nice to see some specifics, thanks for not sidestepping or getting defensive.

Trying to determine when the "grace period" ends is a good (and also familiar) discussion to have, IMO.

I thought the "grace period" for all rookies was 3 seasons?

I thought the "grace period" for all rookies was 3 seasons?

Is that called "The Darko Precedent"?

Nah, that's just the way it's always been...

Or don't you think so?

I always thought 3 years was fair enough for all rookies.

I had no idea that there was a widely-known standard for judging draft picks.

Anybody know anything about Stuckey getting boo'd at a recent Tigers game?

Ouch. That seems a bit harsh for a guy that's only played a year and a half and hasn't really done anything to deserve it.

Yeah, I'm not a fanboy, but I'd cheer a Piston who plays hard.

Maybe they mistook him for 50 Cent.

I had no idea that there was a widely-known standard for judging draft picks.

It's my standard - you get 3 years to show and prove or get off the team.

The 1st year is always hard. They have to adjust to so much at once it's unfair to judge them.

The 2nd year is kinda where they have adjusted to the NBA and all it's trappings but haven't really got it down yet.

The 3rd year? Time to harden the fuck up and show what ya got.

JaMar (Pontiac, Mich.): Do you think this is going to be a breakout year for Rodney Stuckey?

Langlois: I think he’s going to have a much better season than he had a year ago, JaMar. Through the first two or three months last season, I thought he was very good. What happened after that, I believe, was the result of all the upheaval in effect around him. It would have been tough for a veteran point guard to achieve and maintain a level of consistency with the Allen Iverson-Rip Hamilton dynamic throwing the offense into dysfunction. Stuckey was a 23-year-old, playing his first full season, under a coach who kept pushing him to be more assertive. That’s no knock on Michael Curry, either. For the Pistons to realize their potential, it’s going to take Stuckey to become that guy. It’s just that it put him in an even tougher spot last season when he already was dealing with major issues.

I feel like Keith just keeps saying the same thing over and over.

It's my standard - you get 3 years to show and prove or get off the team.

The 1st year is always hard. They have to adjust to so much at once it's unfair to judge them.

The 2nd year is kinda where they have adjusted to the NBA and all it's trappings but haven't really got it down yet.

The 3rd year? Time to harden the fuck up and show what ya got.

That's a reasonable yardstick. Failure to show and prove in three seasons isn't necessarily the final verdict but it's about as long as any team will give a player before they let him become someone else's project.

Biren (Troy, Mich.): I was wondering if you knew about Rodney Stuckey’s summer workout and what he has been doing to try to improve?

Langlois: He’s been in and out of town, but he’s spent a good deal of time working out at the Pistons’ practice facility and is expected back in town this week to take part in informal workouts with several teammates in the weeks leading up to the Sept. 29 opening of training camp. I was talking to someone in the front office about Stuckey last week who said Stuckey has been working very hard this summer and is determined to put the struggles and disappointments of last season behind him. He’s using the criticisms he took for his second-half struggles last season as motivation. I was told that the fact several 2008-09 rookies – including D.J. Augustin, Jerryd Bayless, Eric Gordon and O.J. Mayo – whom Stuckey had outperformed in summer 2008 workouts for the U.S. Select Team had been invited to this year’s camp while Stuckey hadn’t “did not go unnoticed” by him. I can’t predict how Stuckey will play this year, working under his third head coach in another new offensive system, but I do believe he’ll be much more comfortable as the point guard this season with a year as the starter behind him and the fact he won’t be surrounded so completely by entrenched veterans. That had to be a little daunting last season, when Michael Curry was urging him to be more assertive yet he still had players who’d been a part of so many title drives – not just Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince, but Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess as well – all in the same lineup.

Another reason to be thankful that those silly old good players aren't here anymore!

Yup, I'm sure that Tay and Dice were stunting Stuckey's growth.

15 pts, 7 asts, 45%+ FG would be my minimum stats to convince me that he's on path to becoming a second tier PG.

stuckey year two:
13 pts, 5 asts, 44% FG (low considering he spends so much time attacking the rim. how about working on layups, stuck?)

other PGs in their 3rd year:

Chris Paul: 21 pts, 11 asts, 49% FG
Deron Williams: 18 pts, 10 asts, 59% FG
Rajon Rondo: 12 pts 8 asts, 50% FG
Devin Harris: 10 pts, 4 asts, 49% FG (mostly off the bench, IIRC)
Tony Parker: 14 pts, 5 asts, 45% FG
Mike Bibby: 16 pts, 8 asts, 45% FG

15 pts, 7 asts, 45%+ FG would be my minimum stats to convince me that he's on path to becoming a second tier PG.
FWIW, that's Ramon Sessions' statistics in his 39 games as Milwaukee's starter last year.

15 pts, 7 asts, 45%+ FG would be my minimum stats to convince me that he's on path to becoming a second tier PG.

stuckey year two:
13 pts, 5 asts, 44% FG (low considering he spends so much time attacking the rim. how about working on layups, stuck?)

other PGs in their 3rd year:

Chris Paul: 21 pts, 11 asts, 49% FG
Deron Williams: 18 pts, 10 asts, 59% FG
Rajon Rondo: 12 pts 8 asts, 50% FG
Devin Harris: 10 pts, 4 asts, 49% FG (mostly off the bench, IIRC)
Tony Parker: 14 pts, 5 asts, 45% FG
Mike Bibby: 16 pts, 8 asts, 45% FG

I think this should give you all some hope. Have patience with Stuckey.