Do you want him to opt out or not?

Anyone answering "no" can go behind their house and die peacefully. Another 5 mil in space? Hell yes.

Yes, yes, in a heartbeat YES!

Of course Yes.

Dude might be playing a little better lately but in the long run we'd be much better off if he opted out.

$18 million in cap space becomes $22 million? Fuck Yeah!

Surely Joe could get 2 quality players with that much money.

I'd still like to keep his dumb ass around for a lot less. There just aren't that many big guys around.

I don't take kindly to folk named Kwame.

I don't take kindly to folk named Kwame.
Now Skeeter, they ain't hurtin' nobody.

I voted "no" just to fuck up the poll results.

I meant to vote 'no' for the sake of Kwame maybe still having 'upside' (a la the reason Darius Miles, Jake Voskuhl & Calvin Booth are still in the league).

I still have zero confidence in Kwame Brown as a playoff performer.

I still have zero confidence in Kwame Brown as a player.

Fixed

If he doesn't opt out, what kind of trade value do you think Kwame will have?

A legit (albeit limited) big man with a $4m expiring contract.

I wonder if Joe could parlay him into a better center if he worked with a team in financial trouble? (Think: Okafor).

The chances of him opting out is around ZERO right? Serious question.

He could be that 2nd or 3rd player filler for cap reasons.

I don't why I haven't given up hope on him yet.

yeah, 0.

Most likely, in a trade, if another team is going to give up a center they are going to want one back.

He could be useful in that scenario.

Everyone will want expirings next year, and an expiring 7 footer is a huge asset.

GD...Everyone will want expirings next year, and an expiring 7 footer is a huge asset.

GD...Everyone will want expirings next year, and an expiring 7 footer is a huge asset.

Agreed, that was the point I was trying to make, actually.

A scrub with a $4m expiring is desirable.

A scrub that is a center and has an expiring deal is even more desirable.

A guy that can actually play a bit, is a center and has an expiring deal is even more desirable.

Now get that desirable fool off our team and get someone better.

Agreed, that was the point I was trying to make, actually.

A scrub with a $4m expiring is desirable.

A scrub that is a center and has an expiring deal is even more desirable.

A guy that can actually play a bit, is a center and has an expiring deal is even more desirable.

Now get that desirable fool off our team and get someone better.

Agreed...

and lol

Chris (Fremont, Ohio): I’ve never been a big Kwame Brown fan, but he has really impressed me lately. It looks as if he is looking for his shot more, though he has trouble finishing. Is his recent play the reason Michael Curry is thinking of bringing Rasheed off the bench and what are the chances we pick up his option next year?

Langlois: Actually, it’s Brown’s option, not the team’s. I have to believe, given the prospect of a diminishing salary cap and the likelihood that fewer teams are going to be spending on free agents, that it’s highly unlikely Brown will choose to opt out. Brown has, by and large, given the Pistons what they wanted from him – very solid defense and rebounding. People tend to focus on what Brown isn’t rather than what he is, which is strictly a function of having been the No. 1 overall pick. If Joe Dumars doesn’t go the free-agent route, for whatever reason, another option for him would be to trade Brown – and the easy-to-move one year left on his contract at $4.1 million – for an impact frontcourt player with a bigger and longer contract. You’d have to believe New Orleans, for example, would love to trade Tyson Chandler and the two years at $25 million left on his deal to the Pistons for Kwame. The Hornets would get a serviceable center and shave $21 million off their payroll over two years.

Keith with a string of real questions. Taking a break from softball season I guess.

I just can't get into players that give me a "Will fall apart in the playoffs" vibe. He's been better than I expected thus far, but my expectations were very low.

Well, I expected him to be the 12th Man, so imagine how impressed I am.

I thought Sheed, Dice, Amir and Maxiell would eat all the PF/C minutes and Kwame would only play if someone got hurt. Looks like I was really wrong.

Good for Kwame - now get the fuck off my team.

The Chandler idea is interesting - I wonder would Joe take a shot at it.

The Hornets have been playing most of their season without Chandler anyways. Should be interesting but Chandler's injuries scare me...alot and cp3 makes him look a lot better than he really is

The Hornets have been playing most of their season without Chandler anyways. Should be interesting but Chandler's injuries scare me...alot and cp3 makes him look a lot better than he really is
The Hornets are 30-14 with Chandler in the lineup, and 18-16 without him.

What's led to Chandler's improvement is foul rate. He can stay on the court for 30+ mpg instead of barely cracking 20 mpg like he did in Chicago, and he seems to not have sacrificed much defensively in the process. I don't think there's a Chris Paul effect here -- his per-minute #s with the Hornets were the same as with the Bulls (until this year). I'm thinking Byron Scott may have found himself a good "big man" coach in Kenny Gattison.

It took forever, but I think Kwame is finally embracing a useful Role and not trying to do more than than that for once.

It takes pressure off of Sheed when KB does play the middle. I just wish KB had some consistent weak side help on D. Dice is there for him, but Sheed isn't, imo.

The Hornets are 30-14 with Chandler in the lineup, and 18-16 without him.

What's led to Chandler's improvement is foul rate. He can stay on the court for 30+ mpg instead of barely cracking 20 mpg like he did in Chicago, and he seems to not have sacrificed much defensively in the process. I don't think there's a Chris Paul effect here -- his per-minute #s with the Hornets were the same as with the Bulls (until this year). I'm thinking Byron Scott may have found himself a good "big man" coach in Kenny Gattison.

That stat may be misleading. I just took a glance at his game log, and in the games he played in, they were easy lottery bound teams. Now I'm not saying Chandler is a bad player, but his scoring numbers, which are not high come from alleyoops from chris paul or good passes/pick and rolls from him and lead to easy dunks. It's not like Chandler has a solid post game but I was under the impression that his D is above average.

Now the Hornets have started Hilton ARmstrong, sometimes even Julian Wright at center, I'm sure they'd be better of having kwame there in the middle paired up with dwest.

That stat may be misleading. I just took a glance at his game log, and in the games he played in, they were easy lottery bound teams. Now I'm not saying Chandler is a bad player, but his scoring numbers, which are not high come from alleyoops from chris paul or good passes/pick and rolls from him and lead to easy dunks. It's not like Chandler has a solid post game but I was under the impression that his D is above average.
Hmmm... 20 of the 44 games were against playoff teams -- seemed like a reasonable cross-section to me. I'm having a hard time thinking that there's a significant Chris Paul effect to Chandler's offense when he's ~10-12 pts per 36 min with da Bulls and ~10-12 pts per 36 min with the Hornets. The biggest question I'd have is about his rebounding, which is down relative to his career norms. Maybe there's more to his failed physical than we've heard...

Chandler and JMax on the same team? That could be rough.

Kwame Brown won't rush decision on option

BY VINCE ELLIS • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • May 15, 2009

Decision time is coming for Pistons center Kwame Brown, but his camp is in no rush to decide if he will return next season.

Brown's agent, Mark Bartelstein, said Thursday that Brown will take his time to decide whether to exercise his $4.1-million player option or hit the open market when free agency begins July 1.

"We'll do it sometime in the next month and a half," Bartelstein said. "When the season's over I think it's good to get away for a while and clear your head before making a decision.

"The season was kind of a roller coaster for him, but we'll make a decision in the coming weeks."

Brown, 27, has until 24 hours before the June 25 NBA draft to inform the Pistons of his decision.

Brown, a former No. 1 overall pick whose star-crossed career had seen him wearing three different uniforms before arriving in the Detroit, is coming off an up-and-down season.

His playing time was uneven, but he did show promise as a post defender and the team performed better on the boards when he was a consistent part of the lineup.

He averaged 4.2 points and 5.0 rebounds per game in an average of 17.2 minutes per game. He appeared in 58 games with 30 starts.

As far as factors in his decision, Bartelstein admitted the dour economy could play a role -- why risk making less than $4.1 million as a free agent?

"The economy affects everything and you have to be cognizant of what goes on in the world," Bartelstein said. "We'll evaluate everything, but the most important thing is for Kwame to grow as a player.

"We'll weigh it all and come to a decision."

He'd be a good inclusion in a trade if he exercises it. Expiring contract on a 7-footer. Plus in the meantime we'd get some production out of him depending on what we do this offseason.

If he doesn't exercise his option, it opens up some more cap room for us to go after some depth guys, I suppose.

Cap space can get you a hell of a lot more than "depth guys" right now.

I meant 4 million. By depth guys I didn't mean end of bench. I meant that 6-7th man type. The #3 guard of the bench (already Bynum) or the #3 swingman (someone to backup Tay for once) or #3 big. Would we really be getting a starter for $4mil?

Although, we could use that to sign a guy for $11mill and then another guy for 8-9 instead of 5-6, I didn't look at it like that from the start.

$4m in additional cap space would bring all kinds of other possibilities.

Add a player (like Amir) to that cap space in a trade and suddenly you're bringing in another quality starter.

Oh fuck, please don't act on that option Kwame. He'd be batshit nuts. he could maybe, in fucking crazyville, get 2 year 3 million. Which is equal to taking the vets min in 2 years after the option.

If he's dumb enough to opt out, the guy is a complete moron. He is never going to get that kind of money anywhere else. Not a chance in hell, unless some other GM is even more of a moron than we realize.

Would Houston, SA or another team spend their MLE on him? I wouldn't bet on it, but it's not impossible either.

I think I'd rather have Gortat, and those teams might, too.

I agree. They'd also try for Varajao and a couple other bigs. Kwame would probably be about the 6th option for most teams looking for a MLE big. I would stay if I were him.

Pachulia (U)
Big Baby (R)
Varejao (U)
Bass (U)
The Birdman (U)
Sheed (U)
Dice (U)
Rasho (U)
Odom (U)
Anthony (R)
Magliore (U)
Charlie V (R)
Lee (R)
Harrington (ETO)
Wilcox (U)
Gortat (R)
Ratliff (U)
Amundson (team option)
Swift (U)
Frye (R)
Diogu (R)
Gooden (U)
Millsap (R)
Fesenko (team option)
Boozer (ETO)
Both Collins twins (U)
Okur (ETO)

^
Just something to look at.

there are some nice complementary players on that list no doubt, but no impact players and we need to spend the capspace on an impact guy first before we can talk about the Birdman, Bass, Varejao guys...

i'd still hope Kwame opts out, nice backups center but thats it...i'd rather get more precious capspace!

^
Just something to look at.

So he's lower than 6th, that is for sure.


He'd be stupid to opt out.

Tuesday is his deadline, btw.

The deadline passed before the Draft, Glenn. You even posted the article:


Kwame Brown won't rush decision on option

BY VINCE ELLIS • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • May 15, 2009

Brown, 27, has until 24 hours before the June 25 NBA draft to inform the Pistons of his decision.

"We have until the 30th, and we're going to take our time before deciding," Bartelstein said.


"It's nothing against Detroit. Kwame enjoys it there. We felt as the season went on, he gained more and more trust from (coach) Michael Curry. But we're just going to try and get a feel for exactly what's the best situation for Kwame, and then make a decision."

There's no way Kwame would really opt out of $4 million...is there?

^ No

Mercury/Anyone - so why the statement about 24 hours before the Draft?

Does Kwame and his agent need to notify the Pistons 24 hours before the Draft but it doesn't become "official" until June 30th?

I could see how technically that could happen - he's actually under contract until the 30th. Then on July 1st he'd be an Unrestricted Free Agent.

Who is the resident CBA expert now? Chris?

Hardly. I have to look most things up regarding the CBA.

I seriously doubt he opts out, but it's possible. If he thought he'd get the MLE from someone he'd opt.

Why would we need to have him opt out?

Who are we gonna get with an extra 4 million who's worthwhile?

Who the hell are we competing with at this point?

Could we pay him to opt out?

4 mil could make a huge difference. It could allow us to swap Max for Kaman or David West for example (without having to match salaries). if we only spent 16 on FA's, we'd still have 6 to sign a guy for just over MLE money. You never know.

It may make no difference at all, we don't know yet.

Why would we need to have him opt out?

Who are we gonna get with an extra 4 million who's worthwhile?

Who the hell are we competing with at this point?

Could we pay him to opt out?

Trades.

It's likely the "24 hours prior to the Draft" part of the article GD posted is just the reporter and editor being piss poor at their jobs.

Especially when in that same fucking article Kwame's agent is quoted as saying "we have until June 30th."

Anyway, I doubt he opts out. I think Joe would have spoken to him or his agent and told him that they were reasonably happy with Kwame and would like to keep him but "if you feel you can get a better offer ... good luck"

I'm guessing Kwame's agent isn't a moron and knows his client won't get a better offer anywhere else.

Plus, Sheed is gone, Amir is gone, McDyess is potentially gone. He's got a serious shot at consistent minutes this year. We may end up with Max as our primary backup PF and Kwame as our primary backup C instead of having them both sharing those minutes with Amir and having Sheed and McDyess able to play both positions. It all comes down to who we trade for or sign. Kwame is not a starter, but he wasn't bad as a backup big. Nothing wrong with that as long as we don't expect more from him.

How about we wait until he decides to stay and then send him to NY in a S&T for David Lee?

I bet Kwame could get more guaranteed money overall elsewhere. If he gets injured, the difference between $4 million guaranteed and $10-12 million guaranteed (which he could certainly get as a multiyear deal, even in this market) is considerable.

We can have all the Kama Sutra flexibility in the world, but if there's no one to have good sex with, it doesn't do jack shit for us.

Glenn, I love that idea. Maxy, if you are looking for a replacement, I think that 4.1 mill would go a long way towards helping us get Gortat. I think he would be a fine replacement. I got no problem with Kwame's decision either way.

So if you were his agent Mxy you'd advise to opt out (or not opt in, whatever)?

I'd advise him to stay - our PF/C situation is up in the air and he could end up plying some serious minutes this coming season, which could net him a nice contract from those teams that miss out on the "stars" in 2010

Or, he could get hurt and then he gets screwed out of millions that he likely would've had otherwise. His agent might be thinking that the Detroit market is going down faster than other cities, and getting his client, say, back to L.A. might be more worthwhile, even if it's for less $. I dunno. If I were the agent, I'd have been scoping out deals, and I'd be trying to put the screws on Dumars because I knows he wants that cap space. I'd probably be lying like a sack of shit to Kwame to get him to do what I want him to. ;)

It's official: Kwame's back.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090629/SPORTS03/90629046/Kwame+Brown+will+stay+with+Pistons

18 mil capspace should be good enough for 2 good freeagents(Lee, Millsap, Gordon, Marvin), 4 mil more or less wouldn't made a difference if those players are really our targets, so its good that Kwame is back, he's an OK backup Center, could be worse...

"He started something last year and he wants to finish it," Bartelstein said.

Yeah, he wants to finish getting paid.

18 mil capspace should be good enough for 2 good freeagents(Lee, Millsap, Gordon, Marvin), 4 mil more or less wouldn't made a difference if those players are really our targets, so its good that Kwame is back, he's an OK backup Center, could be worse...

I agree thats its not a huge problem. I'm looking at it from the 'we'll have 4 mil coming off the books next year' pov...and thats a good thing.

18 mil capspace should be good enough for 2 good freeagents(Lee, Millsap, Gordon, Marvin), 4 mil more or less wouldn't made a difference if those players are really our targets, so its good that Kwame is back, he's an OK backup Center, could be worse...


Not to mention Rip (and most likely Tayshaun) as trade bait for more bigs.

Not to mention Ripp (and most likely Tayshaun) as trade bait for more bigs.

Shouldn't that be reversed?

"Not to mention Tay (and most likely Rip)..."

I think they're both gone, but the bad apple (rip, in this case) is going to get the first ticket out of town.

I think they go in the same deal, though. Bosh, Amare, someone of that stature.

Plan B, Rip goes for someone like Kamen, and Tayshaun goes for a lesser big, Marc Gasol or David Lee maybe.

Well, it looks like he's going to blow this damn thing up then. JoeD gave them 4 more shots at winning it and they didn't get er done.

he blew it up last year. This is phase 2.

It is phase 2, but I think he thought Stuckey was going to step in and fill that CBill void....rebuild on the fly.

Didn't work. Phase 2 on its way.

BTW, a $ 4 million backup center isn't terrible. A lot of backup centers in the NBA are making a fortune.

It is phase 2, but I think he thought Stuckey was going to step in and fill that CBill void....rebuild on the fly.

Didn't work. Phase 2 on its way.


The Iverson/Rip/Curry feud got in the way, moreso than his talent, i think.

The Iverson/Rip/Curry feud got in the way, moreso than his talent, i think.

I sure as fuck hope thats what it was.

I do think he suffered a little from never having a constant role on the team.

One game he was rip's set-up guy, the next he was Iverson's sidekick, the next he was the go-to guy himself...he just never had consistency.

I think Kstat is mostly right on this one. The fact that we drafted three SFs, and that Joe thinks they all can make this team, means Tay is certainly out the door (as in, we're not going to be dumb enough to have FOUR SFs on this team), and Rip bought a one-way ticket out of town a while ago. The fact that he hasn't reached out to Curry yet to mend fences shows that he doesn't care a bit about being here next year. When you take this all into account, I think Joe is trading a Rip/Tay package, hopefully with future draft picks to nab Bosh.

Tahoe, does your blood smell like cologne?

Tay/Rip for Bosh would also give us some extra cap room, like $6 million worth.

We'd probably have to take Reggie Evans or Marcus Banks back, but even then we'd be under the cap by another $2 million or so.

I think people were hesitant to support that deal because they thought Rip and Tay were too much to give up for Bosh. I think you've gotta do it though, even if it means that we're a little weaker at SF for at least one season.

Do that deal, take back Banks, sign Gordon and Boozer, and find someone decent at SF or let Jerebko start at SF.

Stuckey/Bynum
Gordon/Afflalo
FA or Jerebko/Summers/Daye
Boozer/Max
Bosh/Kwame

I don't care if we're a little weak at SF in this scenario. Fact is, we're mopping the floor with guys at most other positions, and there are three hungry players at our weakest position dying to get on the floor.

You have to sacrifice a bit and take risks to land big players, and settling for guys like Charlie V is not the answer.

Tahoe, does your blood smell like cologne?

I hold NO candle to Mr Dos Equis.

Toronto did just draft a wingplayer + they want to bring back Delfino, they won't trade Bosh for RIP/Tay, aint gonna happen!

Toronto did just draft a wingplayer + they want to bring back Delfino, they won't trade Bosh for RIP/Tay, aint gonna happen!


They didn't have a single wing on their entire roster before that pick. Somehow, I'm guessing they would have taken him anyway, deal or no deal.

Tay/Rip for Bosh is the best deal they will ever get. I think if anybody, Joe D would be the one holding it up.

Yeah Bosh seems unlikely, but as Kstat said, what better offer will they get? Maybe Portland or GS could out trade us due to their assets. At this point, I would think Rip and Tay might be better fits with Phoenix since they already have an aging Nash. Since they have JRich, Tayshaun might be appealing to them. Tay and Max for Amare? Seems like too little for them IMO, but its not like they will have a ton of suitors if the GS deal doesn't work out.

Kstat, are you actually reading the posts before typing?

you edited the post, but whatever.

if i was toronto, i wouldn't do the rip & tay deal for bosh. i'd want some young athletic talent and/or a legit big in return. neither guys really fits their style of play all that well either and both have definitely peaked as far as their ability goes.

i don't think the raptors would do it. i think if they waited it out, they could get a better package of younger talent and picks.

such as?

Can't wait to hear this.....

I proposed dealing Rip and Tay as a package for Bosh or Amare a fair while ago. It's too logical not to work.

I do believe the Raptors would want young talent in the deal too. We could give them 3 future first rounders. Who gives a fuck? We got Bosh! or send them Daye instead.

It doesn't matter who else we include. We NEED Bosh.

You build championship teams around a guy like that. Toronto fucked around for his whole career and that's too bad for them.

With our space you sign Gordon and try to get Villanueva to come here for a little bit more than the MLE.

He's done in Milwaukee and rumours have him going to Cleveland. Fuck Cleveland. They only have the MLE to offer. Give him $6 mil, Gordon $8 mil and then you have $4 mil to sign either a SF or a Big.

I'd be inclined to give the money to Dice.

So, we'd be:

C: Bosh/Kwame
F: Powder/Dice/Maxiell/Jonas (could he play some PF?)
F: Summers/Daye
G: Gordon/AA/Washington
G: Stuckey/Bynum

Is that a title team? Hell No! But it certainly has a rock solid foundation of young talent that could mature into a great fucking team. With 3 rookies, AA, Washington + Stuckey we really don't wanna be adding anymore rookies any time soon.

So if we gave Toronto 3 future first round picks + Rip + Tay it wouldn't really hurt us. We'd be looking to add guys with the MLE, LLE or for the vet minimum to round out the roster and help "mentor" the youth we already had.

And I'm sure people will think I've gone nuts for once again pimping Powder but if that's the only complaint then I'm happy.

Throw in Stuckey and include Calderon. That gives TOR their youth.

Pharoah, if that was our offseason, I would wet myself. Seems impossible, but it would certainly be ideal, especially with a starting long term young PF with a good contract number. Glenn that very well might have to happen for TO to be interested. I would rather have Stuck, but Calderon with Bynum behind him would be a wicked change of pace, and BG might play better with a distributing PG like Calderon, even though I dislike him quite a bit actually.

LMAO @ Glenn - always throwing Stuckey somewhere.

Into the deal, into the ocean, under the bus...

Aren't Toronto high on Jose? Or am I out of the loop?

BBF - That is far from my ideal off-season. I actually think it's do-able (well, Toronto likely want young talent not picks but the signings are realistic).

I would worry endlessly about SF and in an ideal world we acquired our starting SF with the $4 mil I gave Dice and he bails to Houston or somewhere warm.

But WTF do I know? Joe could be full of shit and we just sign Boozer and Birdman and hope like hell we can contend for a season or 3.

Kwame is not listed as a free agent with a PO any more on ESPN's list. Must've picked it up.

Kwame Brown opts to remain with Pistons

by A. Sherrod Blakely Monday June 29, 2009, 6:40 PM


AUBURN HILLS - Kwame Brown's agent confirmed that the 6-foot-11 center will be back with the Detroit Pistons this season.
Brown could have opted out of his contract and become a free agent this summer, but will instead play out the final year of his deal which pays $4.1 million this season.
"Kwame felt like he made a lot of strides in the second half of the season with Detroit, and would like an opportunity to build upon that," said his agent, Mark Bartelstein.

WTF TRANSLATOR

He's going to get a buttload of playing time and hopes he can cash in next year and get the hell out of town.

Kwame Brown opts to remain with Pistons

by A. Sherrod Blakely Monday June 29, 2009, 6:40 PM


AUBURN HILLS - Kwame Brown's agent confirmed that the 6-foot-11 center will be back with the Detroit Pistons this season.
Brown could have opted out of his contract and become a free agent this summer, but will instead play out the final year of his deal which pays $4.1 million this season.
"Kwame is happy with the number of Popeye's Chicken and Biscuit franchises in Metro Detroit and feels secure in the areas general apathy for cakes and cake-like deserts. He's happy to continue residing here as long as those two factors stay firmly in place," said his agent, Mark Bartelstein.

^Awesome (The article, not the news itself)

They didn't have a single wing on their entire roster before that pick. Somehow, I'm guessing they would have taken him anyway, deal or no deal.

Tay/Rip for Bosh is the best deal they will ever get. I think if anybody, Joe D would be the one holding it up.

chicago will always be our competition for the dominant big guy such as amare or bosh. they always have been the most likely to land kg, or any other big name because of their assets.but..they never land them.

they could offer either TT,Noah, or James Johnson now. As well as Kirk Hinrich and luol deng.

Golden State has alot of young tradeable talent as well as

However, it depends on whether or not Toronto thinks they can still compete with the players they have right now. Bargaini and Derozan is a good place to start, Calderon's 27 and reaching his prime. If they resigned Marion, I think it'd be a good indication of them trying to contend still, if not, they're going to retool and wait to develop Demar Derozan for a season or two.

we could probably provide the best players who are ready to play on a team on the verge of a title, but for rebuilding teams, there are far better offers than rip and tay

Rip wouldn't make sense for anyone that's not a contender. He doesn't put butts in the seats and he's not a building block, so he needs to go somewhere that is on the verge and needs someone of his skillset.

Prince would fit best in that sort of situation, but he's young enough that he could also be a veteran presence on a rebuild that isn't quite there. He'll still be good enough to contribute in a couple years when the talent is fully developed and can mentor them along the way.

Prince is perfect for the Clippers.

I mean, Joe has to be talking to the Clippers, right?

Why is he perfect for the Clips?

Do you read your own posts?


Prince would fit best in that sort of situation, but he's young enough that he could also be a veteran presence on a rebuild that isn't quite there. He'll still be good enough to contribute in a couple years when the talent is fully developed and can mentor them along the way.

Also, he would upgrade that position for them and he's from Compton.

JOE SENDS "HIS GUYS" HOME, THAT'S JUST WHAT HE DOES

Cause he's from Compton, home boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Do we want Camby and his expiring deal?

Or Kaman?

Cause if you wanna try and get Zach Randolph you're off your fucking rocker. Dude is a waste of cap space, air space, time 'n' space, myspace and any kind of other space.

Camby's 35, he's off your list.

Why did we trade Chauncey then, right?

I didn't say I wanted Camby GD.

I just named their PF/C players that YOU could be looking at in YOUR trade of Prince.

I'm only 28.

GET IT DONE JOE!!

I wouldn't trade for Camby. He's not a bad player, it's just that he doesn't make this team any better long term. Only reason you'd move Prince for Camby is you are going to spend that money on Bosh next year.

Just setting the ground rules, here.

Rules? What rules?

If you knew Bosh or Amare would sign here, and you need a stop gap center to play next to Lee/Millsap/whatever PF we got this year...then I'd be ok with it. I'm not sure how you know either would sign here though.

GD - we're just shooting the shit about different proposals.

There's no rules - just different ideas, different ways to reach the same goal.

I doubt anyone here wants the Pistons to suck.

Cause if you wanna try and get Zach Randolph you're off your fucking rocker. Dude is a waste of cap space, air space, time 'n' space, myspace and any kind of other space.
I'm off my rocker.

Of course, that's irrelevant because Joe wants "character" guys (who Randolph isn't) and because Donald Sterling wants to keep Randolph around.

The Clippers are not a young talented franchise, nor are they on the verge of anything. They do have 2 young players that are talented in Gordon and Griffin, but then they've got Kaman, Camby, Randolph, and Davis, who are all older and not in the "still developing" phase eating up their cap. They don't fit either scenario at all.

The Clippers are not a young talented franchise, nor are they on the verge of anything. They do have 2 young players that are talented in Gordon and Griffin, but then they've got Kaman, Camby, Randolph, and Davis, who are all older and not in the "still developing" phase eating up their cap. They don't fit either scenario at all.

I think you're wrong.

1. They are talented. I think you might be alone in thinking that they are not.

2. They have one player older than 30 (which seems to have been declared the standard for being "old" here) and that is Camby, who also happens to have an expiring contract and likely won't be there long.

Tayshaun would absolutely be a good fit for the Clippers, IMO.

Kaman is not "older." He's 27.

I meant "or" not in the still developing phase. Randolph isn't that old either, but he is who he is, not getting any better at this point unless its because he gets in shape or decides to play hard for a change. Kamen likely isn't improving any more either.

Actually, now that they've dumped Randolph, they are starting to look like a young team with potential. I guess I was jaded by the overpaid frontcourt holding them back financially. Assuming we traded for Kaman:

Camby
Griffin
Prince
Gordon
Davis

That's not too bad of a lineup. They'd be a playoff team if they got a new coach, depending on their bench.

2. They have one player older than 30 (which seems to have been declared the standard for being "old" here) and that is Camby, who also happens to have an expiring contract and likely won't be there long.


No one else cares what I type GD. Why do you?

Or are you gonna tell me that everyone listens to me?

That's whay I was pressing you the other day on the age thing, an attempt to set the standard for what is "old".

Old isn't really a number though. It comes down to the individual player.

A guy like Reggie Miller played until his late 30's.

Ben Wallace was basically done by the time he was 32 (or close to it) and that's odd since bigs tend to last longer than most.