I realize that there are other scenarios possible, but somebody else can make a thread about those, this is mine.

Would you rather have the Pistons land the #8 seed and play the Cavs in round 1 or would you rather they miss the playoffs altogether and get some ping pong balls?

Those are the only two choices.

BTW, the Cavs are 34-1 at home this year. So how likely is it that THIS TEAM could not only hold :our: home court, but go into the Q and get a game?

It would be fucking painful to watch them get swept, so I'd rather not.

waiting...

Fuck a Cav Don't even give them a shot at us.

Playoffs, even if they get swept out. After the Pistons finish a season, I don't watch any of the other games, so I'd rather have those few extra games to watch than get pick #13 as opposed to #15. Big whoop-de-doo, it's not like it'd buy that much more leverage in a trade.

Besides, there's still a chance the Pistons could grab #7 and face the Magic, who I still think stands a good chance of falling to Detroit. REDACTED

Besides, there's still a chance the Pistons could grab #7 and face the Magic, who I still think stands a good chance of falling to Detroit.

Oh my GOD I can't believe you just did that.

Et tu, Oobir?

2 spots can be a big difference in players though, can't it?

And a shot at the top 3 is worth something, right? Even if it's only slight?

The Bulls just got Derrick Rose that way.

Oh my GOD I can't believe you just did that.

Et tu, Oobir?
Oops. I skipped over the note in your first post. Sorry about that. Consider that part of my post REDACTED.

You can make it up to me by not voting in the poll.

kidding

2 spots can be a big difference in players though, can't it?
Yeah, but I'm of the mindset that, even if the season has been a flaming wreck, players are defecting and the coach is incompetent, if you have any chance at the playoffs you at least pretend you want to prove you belong there. Tanking for picks is for bush-league orgs, IMO.

Though, the thought of watching another goddamned Cleveland victory on national TV is pretty fucking revolting, I must admit.

I don't think they should tank, but as a fan, I just hope they lose if winning means facing the Cavs in round 1.

still waiting...

At this moment in time, I'd rather see us go to the playoffs. We play at least two big games at home that we wouldn't otherwise, putting a little more into the local economy than might otherwise be the case.

I wonder what's more attractive to a free agent looking to win -- a playoff team, or a non-playoff team with a high pick.

There are so many variables involved, but I'd rather take a stab at Cleveland, both figuratively and literally, and see what happens, assuming we have a healthy Rip, Sheed, and AI.

For some reason, I have a feeling that Iverson still has the ability to put a team on his back, even if it hurts for no apparent reason, and win a game or even two in a playoff series. I'm sure I'm in the minority there, and that's fine, because I'm in no way an AI fan.

Anyway, all that to say this: Cleveland is not unbeatable, and other than LeTravel and Williams, they're not that good. I'd take any of our top 6 guys, after LeBron, before I'd take any of theirs, and I think 6 still have a chance, however slim, to beat one, even if he is "The Chosen One."

if we are playing like shit (with all our guys back), I say lotto. If they are playing decent I'd like a shot at the Cavs.

Losing to Cleveland would suck, but I'd rather they get in (and play them) than not get in at all.

Anyway, all that to say this: Cleveland is not unbeatable, and other than LeTravel and Williams, they're not that good.

I used to believe that they weren't very good, either, but 34-1 doesn't leave a lot open for interpretation.

And while you can say that without those two they're not very good, those two aren't just going to decide to not to play.

How good are the Lakers without Kobe & Gasol? The Celts without KG & Pierce?

If we were gonna tank it we should have done it when I said so, not now.

Mr. D died and the franchise needs to do the right fucking thing and make the 8 and give it a good fucking shake.

It's easy to beat Cleveland - just start Walter Sharpe in Game 1, have him smash Lebron into the next decade and BOOM! We win the series.

Sharpe would never get a job in the USA again so send him over to the Iranian Basketball League and he'd be a fucking hero for breaking the hand of the infidel Chosen One.

NOT TALKING ABOUT TANKING

What would you, as a fan, rather see?

That was the question.

Oh, so you mean if we actually tried to win but still missed the playoffs?

Fuck that - if we're trying then they better fucking make it or I will be pissed.

AI might be good for 1 win in the series. You know Sheed will turn up and win 1 game just because he can.

We could probably win 1 as a unit when Lebron had an off shooting night.

So, I'll say playoffs.

Now GD, let me ask you this:

Have you thought that we could make the playoffs and push Cleveland to 7 games? Imagine that! Yeah pick #14 is great - but not that great

I honestly think "we" could at least give Cleveland a little scare.

P, have you been watching the games?

No offense, but I'm just curious.

I am waiting on some gentlemen to post some here, but otherwise I do that thing you do that your not supposed to do to watch/listen to stuff you want to own without spending a cent.

I haven't seen more than 10 games since January though - I have a certain limit plus I don't like watching lazy ass motherfuckers ruin my good memories.

I do try to catch as many highlights of games though - but we all know highlights don't show lazy ass motherfuckers often.

And no offense taken. I seriously doubt we could push Cleveland to a Game 5 - but you can't be so negative.

At the end of the day the Cavs are just another basketball team. Michael Jordan didn't go through the playoffs unbeaten - Lebron certainly won't.

So if some other fucking team can hang on a loss on them why can't we?

And since I'm not sold on Cleveland as the next NBA Champs that means I believe it's possible for a team to beat them 4 out of 7.

If I believe some team can do it, why can't the Pistons? We've got guys who have been there and done it all. Our top 5 guys are fucking awesome and could be a great unit if they clicked.

I've trashed other guys for saying it because I find it highly unlikely to happen - but that doesn't mean it can't, or won't.

Just trying to be positive.

I honestly think "we" could at least give Cleveland a little scare.

i think we could give any team in the east a scare. this year's draft isnt anything amazing, and 3 spots in an average draft is whatever. Id take the chances and go for the playoffs. who knows lebron could get injured in the last game of the season and miss round 1...i still believe

Say what you want about the Cavs, but those little pre-game dances and routines that they do are pretty cool.

ack

No, they're not.

w/t

...you're ashamed to admit that you like them?

...you're ashamed to admit that you like them?
http://www.laughparty.com/funny-pictures/People-Think-Youre-Funny-1287.jpg

If I had time to paste Pharoah's av in the corner, I would.

It wasn't meant as a joke. I'm just not f'ing around today.

Funny pic though.

I said he was funny?

Can someone get me the quote?

I honestly don;t remember typing "LDB is funny" or anything cloe to that.

I may have typed "I laugh at his posts" or something along those lines but they are not the same thing.

There is a huge difference between being funny and being laughed at

i think we could give any team in the east a scare. this year's draft isnt anything amazing, and 3 spots in an average draft is whatever. Id take the chances and go for the playoffs. who knows lebron could get injured in the last game of the season and miss round 1...i still believe

Wishful thinking, in a very douchey way.

I hope everybody who chooses lottery finds a new team to root for. Maybe an expansion team like the "Grand Rapids PussyHearts" would be good.

You heard the man. Find a new team Gl'enn, Chris, and Tahoe.

I bitch a lot about the team, but I'd never root for them to miss the playoffs and I damn sure wouldn't prefer to have them sit at home with the talent that they have and watch.

A few weeks ago I wanted them to tank - so I guess I should find a new team too?

Fuck off with that shit.

Sheed and AI are not gonna be here next season. Dice might not be either. Playing those 3 with Prince and Rip gets us where?

A first round fucking exit.

That's a great idea. Mxy being the smartest in the room can point to a thousand different ways that helps the economy, but fuck the economy, let's talk about the team.

Rip and Prince would be forced to play more games than is needed to see out the season, adding wear and tear on their bodies. For what purpose are we doing that?

Stuckey and the other young guys would certainly benefit from the playoff atmosphere, but wouldn't they be better off playing big minutes in the regular season?

Just play all the young guys and hope we win - if we do then that's awesome. If they lose then we take our Lotto pick and head for the Free Agency Rebuild.

This season is a wash no matter what happens in the playoffs.

I for one will be hoping and praying that we face Orlando in the first round and win SHOCKING THE WORLD!!!!!!

But a few weeks ago I wanted us to tank...

You heard the man. Find a new team Gl'enn, Chris, and Tahoe.

I bitch a lot about the team, but I'd never root for them to miss the playoffs and I damn sure wouldn't prefer to have them sit at home with the talent that they have and watch.

I said as long as they are playing good I want a shot at the Cavs. If they are going to roll over and get swept I'd rather not see it. I'd like to see a real series with the Cavs, even if they lose.

I said as long as they are playing good I want a shot at the Cavs. If they are going to roll over and get swept I'd rather not see it. I'd like to see a real series with the Cavs, even if they lose.

As would I.

I guess it all depends on what you think would happen. I'd like to believe they wouldn't just roll over and get swept or have the shit beaten out of them for 4 outta 5.

there's no point missing the playoffs on the bubble, if you miss it, at least make sure you get a good chance for a top 3 pick, otherwise i'd take the playoffs every time

I for one will be hoping and praying that we face Orlando in the first round and win SHOCKING THE WORLD!!!!!!



I don't think the world would be that shocked.

Well, I didn't say we'd be shocked.

You know the media would act like it was an upset though.

True, but I think there'd also be a fair amount of media guys that wouldn't be surprised either. I mean, ESPN has their fair share of dipshits, but it doesn't take a Mxy to know "we" have their number.

waiting...


still waiting...


I hope everybody who chooses lottery finds a new team to root for.

And there it is, I actually knew who it was going to be, even.

Yes, wanting your team to be a championship contender by striking gold in the lottery is a horrible, horrible thing to wish for.

I said he was funny?

Can someone get me the quote?

I honestly don;t remember typing "LDB is funny" or anything cloe to that.

I may have typed "I laugh at his posts" or something along those lines but they are not the same thing.

There is a huge difference between being funny and being laughed at


Oh noes!

Why haven't you dug that up yet, LDB, it's out there, right?

And there it is, I actually knew who it was going to be, even.

Yes, wanting your team to be a championship contender by striking gold in the lottery is a horrible, horrible thing to wish for.

I ought to give you some more credit.

And for posting that waiting shit you should be ashamed of yourself.

If trashings were handed out you'd be in line for one right now, bucko.

There is obviously an issue with you and V and you basically baited him with the waiting posts. He replied to the thread, but didn't take the bait so you had to throw this out there to make one last attempt:


And there it is, I actually knew who it was going to be, even.

Yes, wanting your team to be a championship contender by striking gold in the lottery is a horrible, horrible thing to wish for.

I thought you were better than that GD, I really did.

lol, it was just an expected response from him.

Anytime anyone questions the team or it's leadership, they aren't a fan.

I say "bullshit" and I say it with pride.

And it entertained me, and that's what I'm looking for here.

I'm not having a go at you because you had fun with this. I'm kind of having a go at you because you baited him, more than once I might add. And when that didn't work you baited him in a big way.

We're all here for a good time and to talk shit and discuss the Pistons and other teams but when there is a personal issue between 2 people I would rather they both forgive and forget and move on instead of baiting each other.

And I know you knew he would answer the way he did and that's what makes it so entertaining to you but did you really have to bait him to enjoy it?

Couldn't you have just waited until he replied, sat back in your leather chair and stroked your chin while taking a puff of your cigar and thought to yourself "I am so fucking brilliant - I saw that coming from a mile away"?

It's the baiting Glenn - I don't like it.

I'm sorry I disappointed you.

I'll try to at least make you laugh with me when I disappoint you the next time.

There's no "forgive and forget" necessary. I don't think he's a bad guy or anything I was just poking fun.

I think Pharaoh just played the serious internet card.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m36/InfoLandsknecht/Macros/internet_serious_mf_business.jpg

Yes, wanting your team to be a championship contender by striking gold in the lottery is a horrible, horrible thing to wish for.
Since you're not a fortune teller, i'll strike this as caring more about your wild delusional dreams than the reality of the team. It appears you only see reality when it suits your dreamy ideas of what rooting for lottery picks means.

My decision to pick the lottery is only if it's Cleveland in Rd 1.

I'd rather we go to the playoffs if it meant playing Boston or Orlando in Rd 1.

Ultimately, I think we'll end up in the 6th or 7th seed when it's all said and done.

I said as long as they are playing good I want a shot at the Cavs. If they are going to roll over and get swept I'd rather not see it. I'd like to see a real series with the Cavs, even if they lose.
Not wanting to see a "supposed" outcome and not wanting to see the match itself are too different things. No one in there right mind wants to see a sweep, but again you dont get the luxury of knowing the result. Speaking as such sounds like a squirm out move to avoid standing behind the "i'd rather have lottery" vote. I expect plenty of asterisks in this thread(though i expect them anyways when it comes to Glenn).

It's only my opinion but being afraid of the Cavs like Wil is afraid to actually write his own term paper is a lack of heart in your supposed pride in your team.

It's not a lack of pride in our team, it's just being realistic.

This is the Cavs year.

I've tried to be optimistic about the Pistons this year as the struggles went on, but I eventually realized it was because I was in denial of how quickly our Central Division reign had collapsed.

I won't say I disagree with V on the OGT issue, but I see it more as a luck/karma thing more than giving up on the season.

I do agree 100% with him here. You root and suffer with your team and hope they win, that they always win, that they make the playoffs and that they win. If they don't make the playoffs, fine, you root for that number one like it's nobody's business. You can even wonder about it. But you shouldn't want it.

The thought of seeing the Pistons swept by the Cavs as all of Espn, TNT and the Internet jizz to every twitch of Lebron makes me nauseous. But you have to root for your team to win. Always. And sometimes you just have to sit and suffer through shit and still root. Hell, most of us are Lions fans.

The thought of seeing the Pistons swept by the Cavs as all of Espn, TNT and the Internet jizz to every twitch of Lebron makes me nauseous.

This is about 95% of the reason I voted for the lotto.

Especially if he wins MVP.

It's not a lack of pride in our team, it's just being realistic.
Realistic is that you actually have to play a game before you have a result. Your belief that it's over before it started is lack of pride. Realistic would be saying odds are not great, and Cleveland "should" win the series. But those odds don't change if we face a healthy Boston team. I see a pattern of falsely hiding predetermined results behind "realistic" as if i'm saying we are a lock to beat the Cavs.


This is about 95% of the reason I voted for the lotto.

Especially if he wins MVP.
95 percent of your heart is missing oddly enough. Hating what could happen isnt really being realistic imo. its being scared.

I expect plenty of asterisks in this thread(though i expect them anyways when it comes to Glenn).



No asterisks from me, pal. If the choice is playing the Cavs in round 1 or getting a crack at the lottery, I'm choosing the chance at a top 3 pick.

Griffin, Thabeet or Hill would help the rebuilding much more than getting swept. But hey, we can get LeBron to pretend to snap a photo of our guys!

Hell, even if they could land around #12 they may have a shot at Ty Lawson, Aldrich (if he comes out) or *gasp* a legit backup for Tay! I'll take that.

You are correct I don't know how the series would go Codename. That is why I said it depends on how they play down the stretch. If they look like garbage the last thing I want to see is the all the crap about Witness the end of an era or whatever marketing BS they do. I'd probably be fine with a sweep by Boston. At least I wouldn't have to hear this king james crap. At least Boston plays like a team and is marketed that way.

Your belief that it's over before it started is lack of pride.

Totally disagree. To me, that's similar to saying that if you disagreed with the Iraq war you were unpatriotic.

Sensible people can disagree without being cowards or less of a fan than you are.

I must be crazy, i forgot how "can't miss" drafting in the lottery is and how for sure us getting swept by the Cavs is Glenn. You are a pillar of fortune telling.

No asterisks from me, pal. If the choice is playing the Cavs in round 1 or getting a crack at the lottery, I'm choosing the chance at a top 3 pick.

Griffin, Thabeet or Hill would help the rebuilding much more than getting swept. But hey, we can get LeBron to pretend to snap a photo of our guys!

Hell, even if they could land around #12 they may have a shot at Ty Lawson, Aldrich (if he comes out) or *gasp* a legit backup for Tay! I'll take that.

Interesting thing I found on the lotto:


What's the probability that a team with lower than a 10% chance gets the first pick? It's not 10%. In the current scheme, eight of the 14 lottery teams have less than a 10% chance of winning the lottery. If you combine the probability of winning the first pick for each of those teams, you find that there's over a 27% chance that one of those teams wins. Therefore, it's more likely that the number one pick goes to a team with less than a 10% chance of winning than the worst team in the league. There's also a 12.5% chance that one of the teams with less than a 5% chance of winning the lottery gets the first pick.
How likely is it that a seven teams with less than a 10% chance of winning the lottery got the first pick in the NBA draft? We'll use this year's probabilities to save a fair bit of calculation. I invite someone else to try this using the probabilities from each year (I can provide the data). Anyway, when we do the math, we find that there's less than a 6% chance that the draft lottery will be won seven times by teams with less than a 10% chance of winning in a 15 year span. Here are the probabilities that a team with less than a 10% chance of winning will win in zero through fifteen years of draft lotteries:
http://scienceblogs.com/evolgen/upload/2008/05/nba_draft_10percent.gif
As you can see, the most likely outcome is that four teams with less than a 10% chance of winning the draft lottery will get the first pick over 15 years.
Three teams with less than a 5% chance of winning the draft lottery have earned the first pick in the NBA draft. That's expected in about 18% of all permutations over a 15 year span. The two most likely scenarios are that these teams would win the lottery one or two times. The probabilities of all possible number of times that a team with less than a 5% chance of winning gets the first pick are shown below:

http://scienceblogs.com/evolgen/upload/2008/05/nba_draft_5percent.gif
The last two calculations (the ones with the accompanying graphs) should be taken with a grain of salt. As I mentioned, I used only the probabilities from this year. A bit more work -- using the probabilities from each of the fifteen years -- may reveal that the outcomes of those drafts are not as unlikely as I proposed. However, the take home message here is that, despite what some sportswriters may claim, it's not all that unlikely to see the worst team (i.e., the one with the highest probability of winning) not win the draft lottery. Additionally, teams that get lucky in the draft lottery, capturing a high draft pick despite a low probability of doing so, are expected very often.

I must be crazy, i forgot how "can't miss" drafting in the lottery is and how for sure us getting swept by the Cavs is Glenn. You are a pillar of fortune telling.

I don't think it is much of a stretch to say that getting another lottery pick is going to get us closer to a title than squeaking into this year's playoffs to play a team that is just destroying people right now.

I'm in favor of whatever gets us a ring, and that is not happening this year.

Why are you so concerned about others' fandom?

Totally disagree. To me, that's similar to saying that if you disagreed with the Iraq war you were unpatriotic.

Sensible people can disagree without being cowards or less of a fan than you are.

I think that deserves LDB's apples and oranges. There's a difference between saying one lacks pride in his team because he would rather not play a series than see his team lose it and saying someone is unpatriotic because he disagrees with the Iraq War.

Totally disagree. To me, that's similar to saying that if you disagreed with the Iraq war you were unpatriotic..
The Iraq war is not a playoff and war mongering itself is not a sport(unless you profit from it), Much like WTFDetroit is not a democracy to be compared to american democracy. You're rooting for failure to satisfy a fantasy Wil is doing it to run away from fear. Be realistic about that.

I think that deserves LDB's apples and oranges. There's a difference between saying one lacks pride in his team because he would rather not play a series than see his team lose it and saying someone is unpatriotic because he disagrees with the Iraq War.
Not to Glenn, he's a liberal in politics, but he uses very republican tactics in the nba forum. Diversion of topics, extreme comparisons, and uppity sarcastic baiting.

I agree with Glenn. 2 home games would be nice. But how many players on this team benefit from those games? Stuckey? That's probably it (since AA, Amir and Bynum probably won't see the floor in real minutes). And even then Stuckey will be again sharing the ball handling with AI, so I'm not sure he'll get that much experience out of it.

I could see if this was Portland, then we'd benefit from the young guys getting 4 games of playoffs under their belt. The fact is that small chance at a great pick can do more for this team than a couple extra games.

IF we are playing well going into the playoffs and have puncher's chance my opinion changes.

Is wanting your team to get better and closer to the ultimate goal the same thing as "lacking pride"?

And to be honest, I am not proud of this current team, at all, so you may have a point there.

Who here is proud of these guys?

But I don't want them to be lottery-bound because I am not proud of them, I'm not trying to punish them. I want them to get better as quickly as possble, before the window closes.

Realistic is that you actually have to play a game before you have a result. Your belief that it's over before it started is lack of pride.

:cogent:

I honestly hate the message, "I would rather not play them since we're going to lose." When did sports become it's only fun if we're winning? Is that how we should be rooting for our teams or handle our sports teams at all.

Have you ever played on a shitty team that mostly lost? I have. You play the games anyway. And I hope I'm able to pass that on to my kids. I want them as fans and players to think anything's possible and that you have to stick with something and believe that every game is a new chance to win.

Am I a pathetic idealist when it comes to sports? Hell yeah. But for cynicism I have politics.

I agree with Glenn. 2 home games would be nice. But how many players on this team benefit from those games?.
How many players are we trying to cater to in the playoffs? I'm sorry i'm not up to speed on the estimated predetermined development of which player since i'm a pistons fan. :)

And to be honest, I am not proud of this current team, at all, so you may have a point there.
There we go, get your real feelings out. You're only proud when they are blowing teams away and you have the luxury of having the odds in your favor.

I'm proud when they play hard, like they used to.

I'm sick of this current roster mix and want "change that I can believe in".

V is better than you.

Good for him.

V is better than all of us it seems. Especially since you are the best of us Gl'enn.

I'm proud when they play hard, like they used to.
Can I say that i dont trust your assessment of hard play from the team King Fortune Teller all knowing Glenn Mecca?

A visit to the lottery might finally wake these guys up

Can I say that i dont trust your assessment of hard play from the team King Fortune Teller all knowing Glenn Mecca?
Can I say that I don't understand 90% of what you post?

Oops, sorry Pharaoh.

See how much better than you he is?

How many players are we trying to cater to in the playoffs? I'm sorry i'm not up to speed on the estimated predetermined development of which player since i'm a pistons fan. :)

I don't see your point. I said if we have a punchers chance, I want that chance. If we are playing like poop (like we did without injuries before), why bother?

This is really an unfair question since we haven't seen everyone on the floor together in months (it seems that long anyway).

I respect that he has his opinion.

I don't respect that he doesn't want anyone else to have theirs without questioning their "fandom".

V is better than all of us it seems. Especially since you are the best of us Gl'enn.
Nope, being better as a person is a whole other subject. Being scared of the cavs doesnt make you any less of a person. And the discussing isnt personal enough to go there with it.

Here, i'm not stopping anybody from being scared. I just think it's fickle and selective to run away from matching up with any team. Again we're not getting" i'd rather play orlando", it's "i'd rather get a lottery pick".

Again we're not getting" i'd rather play orlando", it's "i'd rather get a lottery pick".

Read the assumptions for the thread, they are the roadmap, keemosabe.

Two choices: Cavs or Lottery.

You want more choices? Make a new thread.

I'm proud when they play hard, like they used to.

I'm sick of this current roster mix and want "change that I can believe in".

Of course. I relate to that and agree with you. It sucks to see them give up and play like crap and not work together and have a coach who is just terrible.

I just think that you have to hate that AND still watch every game hoping that they will get it and that they can turn it around or at least win. You can believe that and still hope they do what it takes to get in the playoffs and do something there.

It's like rooting for the 0-16 as well. We're supposed to hate and suffer everything that's going wrong. But I think we should stick with the team and are supposed to always want them to win, no matter the situation.

See how much better than you he is?

Also, ISWYADT

I respect that he has his opinion.

I don't respect that he doesn't want anyone else to have theirs without questioning their "fandom".
My opinion is just as open to being blasted on this. Have at it. Fool already has.

It's like rooting for the 0-16 as well. We're supposed to hate and suffer everything that's going wrong. But I think we should stick with the team and are supposed to always want them to win, no matter the situation.
See, I wanted that too, but I'm not much of a Lions fan.

I did want the Fords to pay for past transgressions in that situation.

Maybe that's a character flaw? Maybe it's a belief in sports karma.

Read the assumptions for the thread, they are the roadmap, keemosabe.

Two choices: Cavs or Lottery.

You want more choices? Make a new thread.
So we HAVE to ride down your hilarious two path street or make a new thread?

My opinion is just as open to being blasted on this. Have at it. Fool already has.

Fool is just stoking the fires because he wants in.

He NEEDS in.

So we HAVE to ride down your hilarious two path street or make a new thread?

Threads are free.

You make the thread, you make the rules/framework for that particular hypothetical discussion.

Threads are free.

You make the thread, you make the rules/framework for that particular discussion.
And people don't cater to your selective two piece answer poll special?

Seriously, make another thread with some different scenarios/options.

I'll play nice.

Trying to have all of the different scenarios all at once isn't as thought provoking, IMO.

I was seeking clarity, not confusion.

Y'all should try to get along like us over in the NFL OT/QB debate. Everything is calm over there.

I rooted against 0-16. I don't think that situation is the same. The Lions got no benefit from losing all their games. They could have been 1-15 and had the same pick.

Apples and oranges.

See, I wanted that too, but I'm not much of a Lions fan.

I did want the Fords to pay for past transgressions in that situation.

Maybe that's a character flaw? Maybe it's a belief in sports karma.

I think it's not "either or". The Fords deserve to pay in some way I guess, but at the end of the day, not in detriment to the team.

Again what you say about how you feel about the Pistons makes sense. I just think that you have to always root for your team. I think, very often, you do have to suffer with your team.

I see that a lot in Europe, especially with fans from smaller teams. Most of them have way more stories about their sufferings and horrendous defeats than about glory and championships. They can tell you all about the morons and thieves running their team and the idiot coaching it. But they still come out and root for them to win, no matter what. I think that's how it should be.

Seriously, make another thread with some different scenarios/options.
That's playing your game to a longer ending(which is i'm sure more fun to your boring day), this is honestly almost over.


I was seeking clarity, not confusion.
I wont go as far as accusing you of seeking confusion(though I'm sure Fool would), But you damn well are not seeking clarity.

Again what you say about how you feel about the Pistons makes sense. I just think that you have to always root for your team. I think, very often, you do have to suffer with your team.


I guess I feel like "I am" rooting for my team.

These two gigantic expiring contracts and eventual lame duck coach don't really feel like "my team', though.

I'm hoping that "my team" is back next year.

Fool is just stoking the fires because he wants in.

He NEEDS in.

"You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall."

I wont go as far as accusing you of seeking confusion(though I'm sure Fool would), But you damn well are not seeking clarity.

Limiting the options leaves less wiggle room for squirreling around the question.

It provides the ultimate in clarity, it's one or the other, and I was looking to see how the board would rule.

The rest is just superfluous posturing, meaningless banter and namecalling, which there is a place for as well.

I guess I feel like "I am" rooting for my team.

These two gigantic expiring contracts and eventual lame duck coach don't really feel like "my team', though.

I'm hoping that "my team" is back next year.

It may be semantics but I think this is where we differ. The Detroit Pistons, in whatever form they take, no matter how shitty they are or how different they are to what I'd like them to be, are my team.

Limiting the options leaves less wiggle room for squirreling around the question.

It provides the ultimate in clarity, it's one or the other, and I was looking to see how the board would rule..
Sorry but that's absolution, not clarity. And there was plenty wiggling when I spoke out on the people who chose lottery. If this was really your plan(which i dispute that it is), it fails quite often.

Great, so now I'm a liar.

You're a real hoot.

And yes, you can still wiggle out of making a choice if you choose to go off on tangents.

Thanks for your ruling on this.

You are in good company. LDB claims to lie over half the time he posts. lol

I think this thread might make Hermy's eyes bleed if he reads it.

Why are you two (DE and Codename) ignoring the fact that the Lotto pick could do more for this team than playing the Cavs?

Sure, we may not win a top 3 pick (it's extremely likely we would not), and regardless of the pick we may draft a bust.

Still, you both seem unwilling to acknowledge that missing the playoffs CAN benefit the team.

Once you can see that...maybe you can see why people, who are true fans, are rooting for what they think helps this team the most.

It's a question of our percentage of drafting a better player VS the percentage of chance you give us to win that series.

Why are you two (DE and Codename) ignoring the fact that the Lotto pick could do more for this team than playing the Cavs?

Sure, we may not win a top 3 pick (it's extremely likely we would not), and regardless of the pick we may draft a bust.

Still, you both seem unwilling to acknowledge that missing the playoffs CAN benefit the team.

Once you can see that...maybe you can see why people, who are true fans, are rooting for what they think helps this team the most.

It's a question of our percentage of drafting a better player VS the percentage of chance you give us to win that series.

Exactly, that part has to be a part of the equation, homezes.

So what Chris is saying is that fans need to think long term. Is that correct, Tahoe?

So what Chris is saying is that fans need to think long term. Is that correct, Tahoe?
And by saying that, what are you saying?

I think this thread might make Hermy's eyes bleed if he reads it.


{fingers in ears}

LALALALALALALALALALALALA!

So what Chris is saying is that fans need to think long term. Is that correct, Tahoe?

Just that we might get a good lottery pick. It seems that is being overlooked.

Why are you two (DE and Codename) ignoring the fact that the Lotto pick could do more for this team than playing the Cavs?


Because being a fan for me is not about practicality. If I were to be cold and objective and look at the big picture I could argue that with the chances the Pistons have right now in the playoffs, the lottery gives them an instant chance at being better next year.

But I'm not cold and objective and sports for me is about always wanting to win, always rooting to win and always trying to win. I believe that objectivity gets thrown out the window when you turn on a game to watch your team or are buying your kid a hot dog at a stadium.

I've watched the "Dead Things" at the Joe, Dick Vitale coach the Pistons at Cobo and my family has had seasons tickets for the Lions since I could barely walk. I always root to win, no matter how stupid that may seem in the "big picture".

So if a young Shaq is available at the first overall pick. Darko is the next best thing in the draft. You are tied with another team for that pick. They have already played.

The clock is ticking down, Sheed shoots from halfcourt, if the ball goes in we get the 2nd pick, if he misses, we get a young Shaq.

What do you want to happen with that shot?

Thanks for explaining your viewpoint so clearly and passionately, DE, it's appreciated.

So what Chris is saying is that fans need to think long term. Is that correct, Tahoe?

Yes. And I think both sides have a legit point. It just isn't cut and dry that playing the Cavs is better for this team than being a lotto team.

Fans want what is best for the team.

So if a young Shaq is available at the first overall pick. Darko is the next best thing in the draft. You are tied with another team for that pick. They have already played.

The clock is ticking down, Sheed shoots from halfcourt, if the ball goes in we get the 2nd pick, if he misses, we get a young Shaq.

What do you want to happen with that shot?

Does the shot get them in the playoffs? :)

I honestly do believe that the day you are willing to lose, for whatever the reason, that sports is losing too. I think this debate we're having brings up two trends that I think are growing in today's American sports: the win or nothing trend, and, especially with the growth of the Internet and the availability to statistical information, the need to delve more into the hypothetical and lose touch with the real.

Now I'm all for the hypothetical. I post here a lot about that. But I try to reserve that for the off season. Or I try to keep the hypothetical confined to the team as is (what if Curry got mono and we actually had to use a real coach). But what I never want is to have hypothetical trump my desire for my team to win.

I'm very happy with my activity level in this thread, thanks.

"The win or nothing"

The thing is we've been winning. We get close. We bring back essentially the same roster with the same result. I'm about done with it. No titles since 04. Not that bad but to think this roster is going to magically win another title, doesn't sell me.

I'm ready for some changes. A ping pong ball visit moves the process along. Getting beat by the Cavs doesn't.

^IMO

I don't imagine the difference between drafting 13th and 15th is that different.

Yeah, I should have explained that one. The "win or nothing" trend (not to be mixed up with winning is everything) is the fact that apathy seems to grow more than ever in the face of losing. That rooting for a team for the sake of rooting for your team seems to be on the decline.

So you're saying Joe can fuck up a 13th as much as a 15th?

Fo' Shizzo.

Yeah, I should have explained that one. The "win or nothing" trend (not to be mixed up with winning is everything) is the fact that apathy seems to grow more than ever in the face of losing. That rooting for a team for the sake of rooting for your team seems to be on the decline.

I'm not arguing here just stating that I feel going to the lottery increases the chances of us winning a title earlier than if we go get our nutz crushed by the Cavs.

I still root for the Lions :)

I don't imagine the difference between drafting 13th and 15th is that different.

The Bulls probably agreed last year.

The Bulls probably agreed last year.
and Orlando in 1993.

Not one player from the 12th pick to the 24th pick (where Cassell was taken) has ever been an all star. I bet they wish they had won another game, made the playoffs and not ended up with the #1 pick.

Bobcats are 12. 3 spots is significant.

#12 thru #15 picks over the years:

Jason Thompson, Brandon Rush, Anthony Randolph, Robin Lopez
Thad Young, Julian Wright, Al Thornton, Stuckey
Hilton Armstrong, Sefolosha, Ronnie Brewer, Cedric Simmons
Yarosav Korolev, Sean May, McCants, Antione Wright
Robert Swift, Telfair, Humphries, Al Jefferson
Collison, Banks, Ridinour, Gaines
Ely, Marcus Haislip, Fred Jones, Nachbar
Radmon, RJ, Murphy, Steven Hunter
Etan Thomas, Courtney Alexander, MaHteen, Collier
Redojevic, Maggs, William Avery, Weis

Certainly some of the #15 picks are better, but at #12 you have the option at ALL of these guys, not just the guy taken at #15.

Take a look at 2001. You'd much rather have RJ than Hunter. In 1999 you would have missed out on Maggs. In 1996 you would have missed out on Kobe AND Peja. In 1994 you'd get Piatowski instead of Jalen Rose.

That's ignoring the chance of getting a top 3 pick too.

Damn, you had to play the Mateen card, didn't you?

WE WOULD HAVE MISSED OUT ON MAHTEEN!

Armed with some recent information, it's interesting to note that Cole Aldrich is ranked at #13 by Chad Fraud.

That would work for me.

WWIDH

I don't imagine the difference between drafting 13th and 15th is that different.

SWIDT

That's a great idea. Mxy being the smartest in the room can point to a thousand different ways that helps the economy, but fuck the economy, let's talk about the team.
I think there's a relationship, especially if not making the playoffs means the Pistons lose money instead of make money, and the whole fucking franchise does some kind of fucking death spiral. It didn't take long after Portland and Seattle stopped their winning ways for their franchises to be in jeopardy. The last thing I want is for some new owner to get spooked by the economy and suddenly we're on the block, or run penny-ante like the Clips. Beyond that, I just want to see jobs for people in Michigan. Some things are more important than me and my NBA jones.

Having said that, the economy doesn't really change my answer.

As I've said before, the draft is a crap shoot, especially where we're likely to land. I've seen the Bad Boys-era Pistons get swept by the fucking MJ Bulls, never to return to past glory. I lived through the Teal Era. The prospect of us getting swept by the Cavs doesn't faze me. I've also seen us win against improbable foes, and we have a cast of characters who may have some greatness in the tank I look forward to the challenge, and I'm in it for life. When it comes to the Pistons, I always want us to compete and win. That's just how I'm wired. If we WERE gonna lose, I want us to lose so badly that we win something -- a guaranteed pick in the top 4 qualifies. None of this "maybe a slim chance that ping pong balls go our way" crap.

WWIDH

I don't imagine the difference between drafting 13th and 15th is that different.

SWIDT

Willie Wonka it didn't happen

Snow White it didn't happen

There are too many Cleveland nutt-huggers in this place.

Fuck a lottery. I'd take playoffs, every year.

you guys gotta look at the long term factual predictions in this thread and understand that the lottery has to be better. Best rout to a title if you ask some. :mccosky:

It's a tough call because I hate LJ, and it's still so easy to look at this roster and on paper see playoff damage potential. Obviously I realize it's a pipe dream at this point, but it wouldn't take much more than a lil tweak in each player's game to make this team a threat.

Sheed plays a lil post (if he plays).
AI does well off the bench.
Maxiell actually regresses to what he was.
Rip cuts his shots back a tad.
Amir, just don't foul all the time.
Kwame, keep up the last couple games, which is suckage by many standards.
Stuckey... oh Stuckey. Stop running at the basket like an idiot. Agility, it's cool.

That leaves Tay, McD, Bynum, AA and Valter. They can pretty much do their thing. That does leave a 12-deep playoff roster. I don't see why all 12 can't get some situational playing time, and situation dictating, be of some value.

I know it's not going to happen. But aside from Sheed actually playing some in the post (4 years and counting?), none of that is too much to ask for.
Also keep in mind I've only seen a handful of games this year.

Lottery? Fuck that.

Fuck the Cavaliers. You just know Lebron is in some run down apartment getting gang banged by a bunch of dudes as we speak. Lebron doesn't scare me. :we: will take those fucks down.

:dismissed:

...

Of your 32 posts has there been one yet that didn't involve some kind of anal sex? Methinks Grant doth protest too much.

That's a great idea. Mxy being the smartest in the room can point to a thousand different ways that helps the economy, but fuck the economy, let's talk about the team.


As I've said before, the draft is a crap shoot, especially where we're likely to land. I've seen the Bad Boys-era Pistons get swept by the fucking MJ Bulls, never to return to past glory. I lived through the Teal Era. The prospect of us getting swept by the Cavs doesn't faze me. I've also seen us win against improbable foes, and we have a cast of characters who may have some greatness in the tank I look forward to the challenge, and I'm in it for life. When it comes to the Pistons, I always want us to compete and win. That's just how I'm wired. If we WERE gonna lose, I want us to lose so badly that we win something -- a guaranteed pick in the top 4 qualifies..None of this "maybe a slim chance that ping pong balls go our way" crap.

I couldn't agree more.

I told you he was the smartest in the room.

See, if we tanked - then we lost on purpose, so in effect we actually won (cause we accomplished our goal)

But since they didn't listen to me and we didn't tank there is no way we should roll over now.

Win as many games as possible and come playoff time you know that Sheed is gonna win us 1 game - he always does.

Iverson can win us 1, so can Rip BOOM! 3 wins already.

Like Shelton Benjamin would say "Ain't No Stopping Us Now"

Sweep.

Dude, don't be so negative.

Are the Cavs unbeaten?

Since they can be beaten why can't we be the team to beat them?

Playoff experience counts for something IMO.

Check back with me if the two teams meet.

And if they don't?

Can I still check back with you?

After 8 years we're DONE?

I'm so hurt - it's not cause of V is it?

Damn!

lol, but yes, this team is DONE.

Charlotte has a pretty hard schedule remaining and the Pistons do not. For us to fall into the lotto we'd have to be playing pretty poorly.

They also have a one game lead on Chicago (who doesn't have a difficult schedule, but more so than Detroit). If Detroit is playing well enough to stand a chance against the Cavs, I think they end up with the 7 seed anyway. If they end up in 8th, they'll be playing poorly to get there and I see them losing in 5.

I'm not seeing Lotto though. 4 game lead and Chartlotte's schedule say the Pistons will be in the playoffs even if they limp there.

I looked at the Pistons remaining schedule the other day and thought that it looked pretty tough, might be time for another look.

Fo' Shizzo.
Did someone say Izzo?

Also, if we don't make the playoffs, we aren't guaranteed #13, so just comparing #13 to 15 isn't the best analysis. We have a decent chance of being anywhere 10-13, a not so decent chance of being 6-10, a slim chance of 4-6 and almost no chance of 1-3. So maybe looking at #10 compared to #15 would be a better outlook.

The non-playoff Western Conference teams are "turrible", so that's not going to help.

Wow, I just noticed that the Cavs lead the Central by 24 games, which will actually be 25 at about 10 pm tonight.

Anyone got anything to say after our loss?

I guess you could spin it any way you want.

I am terrified of Lebron in the playoffs.

I have a friend that is a Cavs fan that said "Fuck LeBron and his show-boating. He's a jerk." Even some Cavs fans are getting tired of his crap.

Lebron can do whatever it is he wants to do.

If players don't wanna see him do it then smash him once in a while and when you are standing over his prone body tell the fucker why he's been smashed. It might make him think.

And if Cav fans or any fans don't wanna see it then boo his ass out of the building - he'll get the message if enough people do it, especially at home.

(then again he might just leave for New York lol)

Wallace picks up technical
So much for getting Rasheed Wallace back for the rest of the regular season.
Wallace returned to action Tuesday following an 11-game absence with a left calf strain, but won't play tonight at New Jersey.
Wallace picked up his 16th technical foul in the third quarter of Tuesday's loss. Players are suspended one game after receiving their 16th technical. Each additional technical results in another one-game suspension.
Wallace was upset with a blocking foul called against Tayshaun Prince near the end of the third quarter on a LeBron James' drive.
"Tayshaun was already there, and he (James) charged him," Wallace said. "Y'all know it's stupid-star calls, too."
Wallace also was upset James was not whistled for any fouls despite playing a game-high 41 minutes.
"In a game like that, huh?" Wallace said. "Y'all know what it is. I ain't even got to say that (bleep)."
As far as missing tonight's game, Wallace said "that's what happens when you speak the truth."

Each additional technical results in another one-game suspension.

I thought it was every other tech after 16, no?

After 16, its every other until a certain point then it becomes every one, maybe. What's his number now?

The article says that was his 16th.

Wow, I Ledezma'd the shit out of that one.

While the Cleveland fans were chanting "MVP! MVP!" I was chanting "blow out knee! blow out knee!"

I am proud of myself

[smilie=blaha.gif]

poll closed

I'd still take the lottery

YOU'RE NOT A REAL FAN!!!!

The effort I've seen lately tells me those players aren't real players either. Its hard to fake enthusiasm as a fan...or as a player <--see playoff games.

I'd much rather have a %1 chance at a great player than see Sheed out there in cement shoes watching the Cavs do layup drills.

Sheed is hurt

And so is Tay, yet our coach left him out there hobbling around doing jack shit to help us.

With a 13-man "thanks for the help, Dumars" roster light on SFs, who would you have in mind? Would you want him to sub in AI for Tay, then swing Rip to SF? (Does anyone think it's nuts not to go into the playoffs with a full roster?)

We don't win this when we're $20 million short on players. But let's see if our team can dig down deep and show something worth building on.

we better not get swept. show some pride.