So I was listening to a Kevin Allen interview on WDFN, and I heard about the Wings FA dilemma.

Franzen, Zetterberg, & Hossa are all UFA this upcoming offseason.

Prior to the season starting, it was thought that Hossa would be one year and done, and we would re-sign both Franzen & Zetterberg. Well, apparently, according to Allen, Ken Holland has fallen so enamored with Hossa's play, that he has since leapfrogged both Johan & Hank, and is now #1 priority to sign long-term.

Odds are strong we're going to lose at least one of them. Because if they sign all 3, then they're going to have to get rid of some 'depth guys' like Filppula or Hudler (Jiri is an RFA, btw). Not to mention, Samuelsson is also a UFA (good ridance if you ask me).

So my question is this, of the 3 (Franzen, Hossa, Zetterberg) which two would you sign?

My answer would be Hossa & Zetterberg.

The ages are identical, which surprised me since it seems like Hossa has been in the league forever.

Hossa is 29 years old
Franzen is 28 years old
Zetterberg is 28 years old

I love Franzen, but I just think he has less of a track record to suggest he deserves a huge contract like the other two. He's more a product of having superior talent around him rather than being a super star player, like the other two. Not to mention, both Hank & Hossa are better two-way players.

It's a tough choice for Holland to make.

Hank is still #1 on that list. He's still a better overall player than Hossa IMO. I would think Franzen would be the odd man out (if there needed to be one). I thought Hudler was a FA as well. He's lighting it up this year too.

Fuck Hudler.

Well apparently he's had some sort of realization to play hard %100 of the time. He's 4th in points on the team with half the ice time of the top players.

Well then don't fuck him.
But I wouldn't keep him at the expense of the other three. So there.

Hudler's a restricted free agent so the Wings have a lot more maneuverability in how they will handle that (unless some team comes along and absolutely throws big money at him).

The other three will be a bit tougher. First of all I'm hoping the NHL will give the cap a big bump which would at least make things easier. I think we can all agree that Franzen is the third on this list in terms of talent and impact (which just tells you how ridiculously talented the Wings really are); he's a great player but the other two are superstars. I would say that Hossa right now has been playing better than Z, but I believe it could be Z's not in full stride after taking time off from the groin injury (or his not being 100% because of it) or it's just another example of how great playing with Datsyuk can be.

If all things were equal (talent, age, impact, intangibles) than Z would have to get the nod. Hossa is a terrific two-way forward, but elite two-way centers have more value than elite two-way wingers. Z also wears that A and has shown he can step it up and dominate in the playoffs.

But really it all depends on what these guys are willing to accept as well. Hossa came to the team knowing he wouldn't get more than 7.5 because no one should make more than Lidstrom. Would both Z and Hossa be willing to take multi-year deals at 7 a year (more or less, depending on how the cap is determined for next year) or even less? There's no doubt that there will be a few teams that can offer each of them much more than that.

To be honest, I try not to think about it too much since it is a bit worrying. It seems pretty much impossible that we'll be able to keep all four of these players. But, at the same time, Holland's pulled off so many remarkable miracles I'm hopeful to say the least.

I'm betting Hossa and Z would both take less money (7 mil isn't chump change) to win here. Franzen has probably hasn't made big money (don't know what he gets now), so I could see him cashing in if the Wings can't give him at least decent money.

I still think they'll move Lilja at the deadline if Meech keeps playing well and Chelios comes back strong. That would free up money for the wingers.

Interesting stat on Hudler...

He is in the top 40 in scoring in the league, yet averages only 13 minutes of ice time.

Interesting stat on Hudler...

He is in the top 40 in scoring in the league, yet averages only 13 minutes of ice time.

Yeah but it could be a "law of diminishing returns" phenomenon with him. I heard Babcock (or whoever is the Wings' coach) say to Kid Rock one night: "That fucking Hudler, I gave him 15 minutes one night, and like magic, after the 13th minute, he killed Chris Osgood with a machetti. That fucker"

So it doesn't look good for Hudler in Detroit unless he's happy with 13 minutes of playing time.

Zetterberg
Hossa
Franzen

Zetterberg has the leadership, it seems. Put him on a line with Datsyuk and he'd be putting up better numbers than he is, plus since he's a C he can give a team a whole lot more versatility. He can switch to wing if needed. Hossa is a huge talent, but he doesn't bring quite as much to the table as Zetterberg. I'd rather keep those two but I don't think its happening. Franzen will command some money but not nearly as much as Z and Hossa.

I think we keep Franzen and either Z or Hossa. Too expensive to keep both Z and Hossa.

I'm betting Hossa and Z would both take less money (7 mil isn't chump change) to win here. Franzen has probably hasn't made big money (don't know what he gets now), so I could see him cashing in if the Wings can't give him at least decent money.

I still think they'll move Lilja at the deadline if Meech keeps playing well and Chelios comes back strong. That would free up money for the wingers.

Here's a pretty good chart on salaries:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=DET

I like Meech a lot (especially as a checking winger) but Chelios is going to really have to kick ass for them to move Lilja IMO. He takes a lot of crap and he still can make some glaring mistakes, but Lilja has been very solid as a third line defenseman this year so far and our top two defense lines are pretty damn sound.

Zett
Hossa
Franz

If Zett and Hossa are both asking for a ton of money and the two of them would make signing depth difficult, then Zett and Franz is cool too. But.. I've seen little this year, and the most dedicated viewings I've had of the Wings they sucked octo butt, so my take is tenuous at best in regards to Hossa.

Here's a pretty good chart on salaries:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=DET

I like Meech a lot (especially as a checking winger) but Chelios is going to really have to kick ass for them to move Lilja IMO. He takes a lot of crap and he still can make some glaring mistakes, but Lilja has been very solid as a third line defenseman this year so far and our top two defense lines are pretty damn sound.

Well, besides Meech and Chelios you have Lebda and hopefully Erickson ready to play on the 3rd pairing next year. Right now that is 3 guys that are capable 3rd liners (you have to sit two of them now). I'd rather move Lilja than see Franzen and Hudler leave and then we're counting on Maltby and McCarty for scoring.

Well, besides Meech and Chelios you have Lebda and hopefully Erickson ready to play on the 3rd pairing next year. Right now that is 3 guys that are capable 3rd liners (you have to sit two of them now). I'd rather move Lilja than see Franzen and Hudler leave and then we're counting on Maltby and McCarty for scoring.
We definitely have the young depth on D to move Lilja if we need to, but he's obviously the better player because he's playing and they're sitting.

What is Ville Leino supposed to be?

Can he fill a void?

What is Ville Leino supposed to be?

Can he fill a void?


From everything I've heard and read, Leino is ready for the NHL now. Obviously are depth keeps him out presently. He started the season for GR good, but then got hurt. He played a little tentative when he first came back, but has since found his game again. Leino and Helm can fill any void vacated by our 2nd tier or 3rd tier forwards next year IMO.

Yeah, I heard at the start of the year that Holland thinks he'll be on the roster next year.

He and Helm would have both made the roster this year if we weren't ridiculously deep. I remember Holland saying that they'd both be better off getting regular time in the minors than being on the 4th line here getting spot minutes, but they were both NHL ready if we needed them. I read recently that Helm is more ready but Leino is probably the next to be called up so he can get some pro-level experience.

He and Helm would have both made the roster this year if :we: weren't ridiculously deep.

It's ridiculous how deep we are sometimes.

It's ridiculous how deep we are sometimes.


Also Justin Abdelkader did pretty well last year in the last few games of the regular season.

Not to mention, our depth forced us to basically give away Kyle Quincey who has become LA's top defenseman.

When are the true prospects like Brendan Smith expected to be polished enough for the NHL?

You look around the league and see 19 & 20 year olds all over the place (Turris, Foligno, Stamkos, Jack Johnson, Schenn).

Do the Wings have anybody of that ilk? Or are those guys a product of being high draft picks on inconsistent teams?

I`m just curious because the Maltbys and Drapers of the world are soon to becoming liabilities, if they aren't already (judging their +/-).

We are that ridiculously deep. And because of that I have a feeling we'll be making a sacrifice or two if not this next offseason then the following one and take a gamble or two on youngsters. We don't usually have 19 year old talent playing on our team because we don't have the high draft picks and we have a veteran depth chart that's not easy to crack.

(Although if you go to hockeybuzz.com and check out the ice machine video you get to see a drunk Bobby Hull actually call the Wings a one-line team. Yeah, Bobby, why don't you grab another beer and keep flirting with the young blonde and keep your homer analysis to yourself. We'll leave objective comments to your son.)

I still don't think just moving Lilja alone will get us both Franzen and Hudler (assuming we can keep Z and Hossa for logical Red Wing money). When I look at their salaries I just can't see how another team doesn't throw at least double what they're currently making (and with Franzen it will be at least double).

I didn't mean to imply Lilja's money means we could sign both. I just said I'd rather move him than lose both Hudler and Franzen. That changes if Holland/Babcock think a couple young guys are ready to step in. I would think if they were they'd already be playing over Maltby right now.

Probably won't happen for a while given our horrible penalty killing (a place where any Maltby replacement has to be able to help at).

Even if you didn't imply it, it's definitely not something wrong to consider. He's been playing well this year IMO, but if we can dump his and Chelios' salary and just let some young guys step in, the question is does that give us another mil or two to throw at Franzen and/or Hudler.

The beauty with our D is that our top four are tied up really well. Lidstrom's deal expires after next season but we have the other three tied up for 3 more years. Holland was on point here. First of all you always shore up your D, it's a number one or two priority. Having two top D lines like that give the Wings the chance to plug in youth if they lose a top winger.

Well Zetterberg's already locked up, apparently now according to the Free Press, Holland thinks that both Franzen & Hossa will be back next year.

They said he may have to make a few deals/move a few players to make room under the cap to get it done. Not like it would hurt too much, you've got some very cheap players sitting in the minors that are NHL ready. Just look at Helm and Leino.

I'm betting Franzen and/or Hudler are gone with Hossa staying. My guess is Hudler looks for a payday and Franzen stays cheap. Leino replaces Hudler in the lineup.

I'm betting Franzen and/or Hudler are gone with Hossa staying. My guess is Hudler looks for a payday and Franzen stays cheap. Leino replaces Hudler in the lineup.


It's ridiculous how deep we are sometimes.

:cogent: and:cogent:

I'd like to get rid of worthless 'depth guys' like Draper and Maltby and replace them with Leino/Helm/Abdelkader on the 4th line.

While guys like Maltby & Draper are decent on special teams (mostly just shorthanded) they're useless otherwise.

Time to cut the cord on the productionless fan favorites. Give them front office jobs or something...

Draper has an A on his jersey for a reason. As much as I don't want to see Maltby go, his time here may be up next season. Draper will probably stick around because of his leadership and locker room presence.

Draper has an A on his jersey for a reason. As much as I don't want to see Maltby go, his time here may be up next season. Draper will probably stick around because of his leadership and locker room presence.

Yep. Add to that the fact that he's still top 5 in faceoffs and a top 15 defensive forward (though he's had an off year this year).

It's a good problem to have I guess (too much depth). But it can also be a pain in the ass.

Kyle Quincey is tearing it up right now in LA. Borderline top 20 defensemen in the league statiscally this year, and we had to let him go for nothing.

But we also won a cup with the vet D last year. When you win cups other things get sacrificed (like developing some players). Considering the Wings have been contending for cups for basically 15 years, they've done a remarkable job of developing the talent they have.

I'd have rather kept Quincey than Chelios. Was that an option, or did Chelios not count against us because he was injured for the start of the year? As much as Chelios has done for us, he's a 3rd line defenseman now and he's not a part of our future.

Chelios make peanuts. I'm sure Quincey makes more money.

Anyone see Franzen's goal last night? Thing of beauty.

If Franzen could stay healthy, I would consider keeping him over Hossa.

Anyone see Hossa fight? They were talking about it on the radio last night. I'll have to youtube it when I get home from work (youtube disabled at work, lame but probably smart).

Anyone see Franzen's goal last night? Thing of beauty.

If Franzen could stay healthy, I would consider keeping him over Hossa.

He's really developed into a great player. And there's not a single scenario (other than flat out money, maybe) that I would take him over Hossa. Franzen's a great player and turned into a great goal scorer. Hossa's elite. He can often be the best guy on the ice, the best guy in the game. And while Franzen's decent on D, Hossa's still 100 times better.

Both will be back I think.

My question is whether you trade hudler before the deadline or simply let him walk.

Certainly he helps your cup chances, but what could we get back for him that might help us long term? It would have to be pretty cheap (or a pick) because he only makes 1-2 mil I think.

Could we get a better goalie prospect for him and Howard? Someone ready to join the Wings next year?

But do you really want to interrupt this teams chemistry and chances at a cup just to try to get a little extra value out of him by swapping him for a prospect or something? I'd rather take my chances with him walking and not mess with this team. Maybe he goes a little harder in the playoffs to prove the team should keep him (or to earn a bigger contract).

I don't know. That is why I asked. Depends. If it brings us the next Luango then yes.

That's a really good question. I've been thinking about that one for a couple hours now. I think I'd roll the dice on Hudler staying just because I think our team D and one of our two goalies still have more than enough of a chance to be in playoff shape by the playoffs. Hudler gives us good 2nd and/or 3rd line shifts and those I felt were big last year in the playoffs.

a lot depends on the general health too. we still don't have Homer.

At least they're saying all the right things, right?



Hossa says he'll take less money to stay in Detroit

BY HELENE ST. JAMES • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • March 23, 2009


CALGARY, Alberta -- While Marian Hossa's focus is on playing hockey, he is, behind the scenes, talking to his agent about what it'll take to continue playing hockey for a long time with the Red Wings.
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Hossa's agent, Edmonton-based Ritch Winter, and Wings general manager Ken Holland are holding contract talks with an eye on turning Hossa's one-year deal into a long-term relationship.

"To tell you the truth, I want to sign somewhere and retire there," Hossa said Sunday. "I don't want to move around any more. I'm 30. I don't know how long I'm going to play, but I am looking for long-term deal.

"To be able to stay as a Red Wing, I am prepared to take less money, but a fair deal, so both sides are happy. That's what I'm looking for. I know if I go somewhere else, I could have more, but I'm willing to take less to stay here. Hopefully things work out."

Hossa takes a team-leading 36 goals into tonight's game at the Saddledome against the Flames. Tomas Holmstrom (knee) skated Sunday and said he would decide today if he's ready to play. Chris Osgood will get a fifth straight start in goal.

The Wings are 45-13-8 with Hossa in the lineup. He signed with them last summer because he saw them as the best chance to win a Stanley Cup.

"I could be somewhere else, you know, but I came here because I like everything and I want to be a part of it," Hossa said. "And that's why I want to still be a Red Wing and stay here."

Hossa is making $7.4 million, but the Wings will push the fact that star forward Henrik Zetterberg just agreed to a 12-year deal with an annual cap number of $6 million. Zetterberg left millions on the table to remain surrounded by talent.

"That was something we talked about when we worked the deal out," Zetterberg said. "It's not if you can live on 6 (million) or 8 million; I'd say it's more that you have a lower limit that you think you deserve, and we found that, and then they were great to give me the long term."

In addition to trying to keep Hossa, the Wings also want to retain forward Johan Franzen, who's making less than $1 million. With next season's salary cap not expected to grow much beyond this season's $56.7 million, the Wings have around $9 million in cap space left, though they'll move some lower-end players this summer.

Veterans on the team are confident Holland will pull off another coup.

"He'll figure it out somehow," Osgood said. "He always does the right thing. There's not a single guy around that doesn't think that he'll figure out a way to keep them. We always seem to be able to lure good players here who want to stay here, because it's no fun regardless of what you're making to be on a bad team. There's no substitute for winning."