for RIP/Kwame..

Philly plays better without Brand...

Philly

Dalembert
Young
Iggy
RIP
Miller


Pistons

Wallace
Brand
Prince
AI
Stuckey

give up AI and Kwame then we we won't teams going for AI's pussy defense all game.

But then we won't have his giant expiring contract. That's what we wanted, that's what we've got. We're not giving it up for Brand's aging and injured body.

So the Elton Brand thing hasn't worked out so well in Philly. He's still putting up numbers (when healthy) but it looks like a bad fit. He also is a low post threat, something that most of us have been looking for.

What about sending AI back to Philly for Brand?

I have a feeling that AI is going to end his career back with the Sixers some way, some how, and this would give them a chance to undo the Brand deal, have a free trial with AI, sell a buttload of tickets and if it doesn't work, they can let him walk and take the cap relief.

I realize that the Pistons would be giving up about $13m of salary flexibility, but isn't Brand the type of guy that they are going to target with that cap space anyways? This just accelerates the process.

The problem is, how to get the salaries to work.

Here's one option that also gets the Pistons an experienced PG with an expiring deal.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=91~557~366~2769&teams=8~8~20~20&te=&cash=

Starters become

PG: Andre Miller
SG: Rip or Stuckey
SF: Tay
PF: Elton Brand
C: Sheed

That's a much better three guard rotation than what :we: have now, IMO.

Maybe the Pistons could go back to running an actual offense?

http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/transparent-sim.jpg

I had a feeling that you would have a problem with this.

Anybody else?

I did love that you moved Stuckey to SG.

For the Pistons: :motown soa:

For the Sixers: No chance in hell they do this. Andre Miller is a huge part of that team.

But if they don't plan to re-sign Miller or fear that they could lose him for nothing, wouldn't they possibly take this in exchange for getting Brand's 5 years off the books?

I don't know their cap situation, but I would guess that would make them players in the big 09/10 free agent class.

:bump:

He's the TYPE of player we'll be going after in free agency, but he's not the player we'd go after with that kind of money. No thank you, I'll hold out for someone like Bosh (yes, I need a reality check, we're not getting him).

I would also hold on to the salary flexibility...Brand is damaged goods

When was the last time Brand was healthy?

IIRC he's been injured on and off for a few seasons now.

Assuming Philly would do the deal is it really in our best interests? Brand and Miller are not getting any younger. If we're serious about a rebuilding job grabbing these 2 doesn't work for me.

I'd rather maintain the flexibility for a bit and hope to get some younger talent that can team with our young guys using the cap space and/or picks to facilitate deals.

Shit's getting weird around here, I just pulled this idea out of my ass, and now this...


Player News (last updated: January 27, 2009)

News: Brand could be traded before the trade deadline, the Philly Burbs reports.

Spin: The blog insinuates that Brand could be traded to Detroit or Chicago. It's an interesting story that has some solid footing due to the Sixers' struggles with Brand in the lineup so far this season. Landing with a half court team, like the Pistons, could help Brand's value dramatically.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=91

Also this:
http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/01/could_the_detroit_pistons_trad_1.html

When was the last time Brand was healthy?

IIRC he's been injured on and off for a few seasons now.



Besides blowing out his achilles last year, which can happen to anyone, he's been anything but injury prone.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3324/career;_ylt=AsL9kA_BBFAZ6DUUD8f4YPVVPKB4

Would you do this?


Detroit could send Rip Hamilton, Amir Johnson and Kwame Brown to Philadelphia for Elton Brand and native Detroiter Willie Green (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981%7E294%7E2769%7E91%7E2004&teams=20%7E20%7E20%7E8%7E8&te=&cash=). This would keep Detroit in the running for big name free agents in both 2009 and 2010 and allow Joe Dumars to pitch a possible core of Rodney Stuckey, Tayshaun Prince and Elton Brand

They've been talking about the possibility of this move all day on 1270 (the only local sports station). First the Freep, now this....the Detroit media is starting to poach off of this place.



I'd rather maintain the flexibility for a bit and hope to get some younger talent that can team with our young guys using the cap space and/or picks to facilitate deals.
agreed

Green is ok as a backup guard. What would we do at SG next year? I'm doubting AI or Sheed is going to want a one year deal. Are there players we could move them for that would expiring in 2010?

Free Agents that expire in 2010:

SG - Raja Bell
SG - Josh Howard
SG - TMac

C - Brad Miller

These would be some options to consider in an AI or Sheed deal if we still wanted to target the 2010 class but not simply let Sheed and AI walk and have a lotto team next year.

re: #13

I think that is too rich.

Here are some deals that would work (not saying they'd be done):

Sheed/Kwame/Herrmann for Miller/SAR (would get them 18 mil more in space next year)
AI for Howard/Dampier (Damp would expire in 2011 and we'd still have Bosh money)
AI for Bell/Morrison/May
AI/Max or Amir for Tmac/Battier

These deals all keep space for Bosh. Most of those players would not be retained past 2010 (Battier and Dampier are the only deals longer)

SAR retired, can they still trade his deal?

I don't know. The deal works with Kenny Thomas too.

This right here http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=883~91&teams=20~8&te=&cash= I would do, but I think Joe could get a 1st in return as well to compensate for the long-term money and the cap relief that Philly would get.

Of course, it doesn't really address the problem of duplication between Rip/Stuck/AI, so I'd like to see another deal sending either Rip or AI elsewhere for a star-level big (as we have discussed, Stuck isn't going anywhere).

Well, at that point I would see if Sactown wanted to do AI/Max for Miller/Salmons/Thomas:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=366~2775~556~1726~849&teams=23~23~8~8~8&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=366%7E2775%7E556%7E1726%7E849&teams=23%7E23%7E8%7E8%7E8&te=&cash=)

They get cap space and a PF to pair with Hawes.

We get a backup wing for 3 years (Salmons) to move RIP back to starting, plus a center and PF that expire in 2010.

PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG RIP/Salmons/AA
SF Tay/Salmons/Herrmann
PF Brand/Amir/Thomas
C Miller/Dyess/Thomas

Only worry is backup PG, but I'd probably just play Tay there for 5-10 minutes a game to avoid Bynum (AA can share the ballhandling load some too). Either that or move Herrmann for a backup PG that might have a year left after this.

After next year Miller and Thomas are gone, sign Bosh. Hopefully we can draft a solid backup PG too.

2010:
PG Stuckey/(Draft)
SG RIP/AA
SF Tay/Salmons
PF Brand/Amir
C Bosh/Amir

The TMac Battier one isn't too bad. I'd love to have Battier and couldn't care less about TMac since he'd be injured half the time and he'd be off the books in time for that big free agent class. Would that cause a logjam at the swing positions though? Prince, Rip, Battier, McGrady all trying to get time at either the 2 or 3. I guess Rip could play only the 2, Prince only the 3 obviously, and then its whether @_o minds playing a bench role. It just doesn't seem like we'd have enough minutes to go around at those two positions. Then again, that would give us the flexibility to trade Rip and not have to worry about who starts at the 2 next year.

Not that I ever think the Rockets would do that deal.

I really like that last one chris came up with, assuming Brand can stay healthy. We finally get that low-post guy, the 6ers get out of the Brand deal they may regret and can spend that money elsewhere next year or the year after. We have a solid big to pair with whomever we can get via free agency, and a stop-gap big in Miller who can do well enough until we get his cap space to go after someone like Bosh or Amare.

For you cats saying that you don't want Brand, can you explain why you might want Boozer instead?

For you cats saying that you don't want Brand, can you explain why you might want Boozer instead?


Youth.

Won some games.

What has Boozer won that Brand hasn't?

He's been on some better teams, for sure, but are Boozer's extra wins going to help the Pistons somehow?

I think Brand being a "better guy" probably outweighs that, IMO.

What has Boozer won that Brand hasn't?



A second round playoff series?

And isn't Clipper nation furious at Brand for lying?

It's interesting that both of them left their previous teams under similar circumstances. Although Brand left $16m on the table to get away from a losing franchise and get back East to be with his family and a better team and I view Boozer's move as a downright cash grab (some still claim that he lied to the Cavs).

Didn't see your post, but yes, there were a lot of similarities in how they left their teams. I've always heard Brand referred to as "a class act" (at least by those that aren't Clipper fans, that is).

I don't see a big edge in Boozer winning an extra playoff series, but that's subjective.

Is that factor going to make him more valuable to Detroit? I don't think so.

Wiki says that Boozer's agent quit after the Cavs incident, I didn't recall that.

Both were liars, no question. I presume Boozer would be had for less cash, not cost us assets in a trade, and not come with a reputation for making average teams more average.

So you think Boozer's going to get less than Brand got?

Both were liars, no question. I presume Boozer would be had for less cash, not cost us assets in a trade, and not come with a reputation for making average teams more average.

A lot of Bulls fans feel that letting Brand go is the reason they still suck.

And, as far as the bold part, I haven't checked their record with/without him, but Utah seems to be doing about the same with Millsap as they were with Booz, but I'd have to check.

Cleveland didn't really slip without him either.

Didn't see your post, but yes, there were a lot of similarities in how they left their teams. I've always heard Brand referred to as "a class act" (at least by those that aren't Clipper fans, that is).

I don't see a big edge in Boozer winning an extra playoff series, but that's subjective.

Is that factor going to make him more valuable to Detroit? I don't think so.

Boozer has won more than 1 more playoff series in his career.

He has also played for a good coach and in a good system. He also made a team he played for better more than 1 season.

Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with Boozer and I think he's a very good player.

These guys are pretty similar IMO, and I was just wondering why Booz seemed so valued and why Brand was undesirable.

Boozer has won more than 1 more playoff series in his career.


I should have said "extra round", as in the fact that he's been one round further than Brand ever has isn't a factor in what he brings to his next team.

So you think Boozer's going to get less than Brand got?


Yeah, especially seeing Brand has already burned off the cheap year of his deal.

Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with Boozer and I think he's a very good player.

These guys are pretty similar IMO, and I was just wondering why Booz seemed so valued and why Brand was undesirable.


I'm in the same boat G. I consider them very close. Just a couple slight advantages to Boozer.

I should have said "extra round", as in the fact that he's been one round further than Brand ever has isn't a factor in what he brings to his next team.


Ok, let's just say Boozer has been on better teams.

Well economic forces may bring Booz's deal down a bit too, so you may be right there.

If BRI goes down, does the amount of a max contract go down too, or just the amount of the MLE?

A lot of Bulls fans feel that letting Brand go is the reason they still suck.

And, as far as the bold part, I haven't checked their record with/without him, but Utah seems to be doing about the same with Millsap as they were with Booz, but I'd have to check.

Cleveland didn't really slip without him either.

Milsap seems to be nice. I would add him if available.

No matter where to take this, Boozer went to a fair team that got better then, Brand has played with a lot of suck and sucked.

Both were liars, no question. I presume Boozer would be had for less cash, not cost us assets in a trade, and not come with a reputation for making average teams more average.

What kind of assets are you referring to?

If you are talking about AI's expiring deal, explain how that is different than using cap space next year. Also, at this point, some might see moving Amir or Max's deal as a +

Max salaries would go down.

What kind of assets are you referring to?

If you are talking about AI's expiring deal, explain how that is different than using cap space next year. Also, at this point, some might see moving Amir or Max's deal as a +

I was presuming, as others have, they would not just take AI's deal. And if we can unload a PP, more power to us, but I'm presuming they would want worth.

I didn't notice that Joe A had the Rip/Kwame version of a Brand deal a while back.

One of the "rumors" is Rip/Kwame/Amir for Brand/Green.

I'd rather have Boozer than Brand too.

This season Boozer has had games like:

26 points, 15 boards v CHA
20 points, 11 boards v MIL
21 points 15 boards v PHO
19 points 16 boards v PHI
19 points 18 boards v NY

Not bad for a guy who has already made it clear he wants out of Utah.

While we're throwing out names...

What do you guys think of David Lee from the Knicks?

If you go by stats, the analysis says Boozer. However, Brand (at least before his injuries) was light years ahead of Boozer on defense. Brand would bring a shotblocking threat, while Boozer is more of an on ball defender and a box out rebounder.

What do you guys think of David Lee from the Knicks?


Growing on me. Perfect mate for a 5 years younger Sheed. Not so much Amir/Max.

Boozer hands down. Brand is a better defender, but Boozer is two years younger (and has played 3 less seasons) and is more of a hustle player too. Brand might play a little better man defense, but Boozer will probably keep more rebounds alive and get loose balls.

BTW, would Boozer choose Detroit over Miami? I'm sure they'll throw money at him.

And if so, would we attemp to sign Marion to play next to Bosh in another year?

And if so, we'd have no center next year.

I'd try to convince Utah to take AI for Boozer somehow. Not sure they'd want AI, but they don't really need Boozer (he overlaps with Millsap who is cheaper, plus AK47 plays better at PF). Then at least Boozer would have a chance to grow with the rest of the team and maybe he'd pick them over Miami.

I asked about Lee cause I've never seen him play. Not much point looking for highlights, since he'll obviously be kicking ass.

What are his strengths/weaknesses and why wouldn't he fit with Amir/Maxiell?

Do we want an aging Marion though?

I'm guessing Joe will look to add young guys that can compliment Stuckey with the idea being that for the next few years LA and Boston have got shit on Lockdown.

I asked about Lee cause I've never seen him play. Not much point looking for highlights, since he'll obviously be kicking ass.

What are his strengths/weaknesses and why wouldn't he fit with Amir/Maxiell?
We'd have no C if he was with them. Max is way to small to be a C because big guys can just back him down and shoot over him, he doesn't have Ben's muscle to make up for his height and he's not even as tall as Ben. Amir doesn't have the strength to play C either, he'd just foul out in 5 minutes. Lee is a PF all the way, he'd be overmatched against many of the centers in the league. Up until this year with the ex-Suns offense, he was a fantastic hustle player but that was about it. I made a few trade ideas for us getting him a year or so ago but it would have paired him with someone like Sheed, not Max/Amir.

I asked about Lee cause I've never seen him play. Not much point looking for highlights, since he'll obviously be kicking ass.

What are his strengths/weaknesses and why wouldn't he fit with Amir/Maxiell?


He's a pure energy/attack the rim guy. No perimeter shot, teams could clog the hoop and box out their forwards against a combo of Lee and anyone we have on contract by next year.

And keep in mind D'antoni's system inflates numbers, so I don't put a ton of credence into his improvement.

Lee's agent is talking $10m/yr

That is absolutely ludicrous. Any team that is stupid enough to give him that contract deserves what comes to them.

$10,000,000? Damn! I know his stats look good but...

As Hermy mentioned the system he's in inflates his numbers (another reason why I asked about his play). I thought he'd be worth the MLE or a little more.

He was gonna be my "2nd tier" option.

If he gets close to $10 mil then his agent is the shit.

Brand hasn't recovered yet. He only played 8 minutes last night off the bench.

DONE.

[smilie=locked.gif]

lol

I wish we would have ...

Elton Brand would look great next to Monroe right now

33 & 16 last night