Can this have its own thread? The team is actually worth talking about (a little) for the first time in years. I want to discuss in a big way without it being lost in the muck of the general thread. I'm guessing State should have their own thread as well, with posts moved in to respective threads and the general left over for other big games - as there will be plenty to talk about this season.

Anyhow, moving on to UM.

This 4-1 start is nice, but I'm wondering just how much I should be expecting based on an early measuring stick. Last year they started 3-2 through 5 and ended up 10-22. So I chose to look at the similarities and differences. Some encouraging things here, and others that show cause for concern. I think it's fair to compare, since both seasons included 3 teams that were not really challenges along with two top 10 teams.

First, I'm curious about the offense. What really hurt them last season was the fact that they simply could not shoot at all. They finished the year with a FG% of .395, which will kill any team. Well, they didn't start out quite that bad. Through 5 last year they shot .434. This year so far they're at .455. They've gotten off 8 more shots through 5 games, so the number of attempts is similar.
They aren't getting to the line any more, which is a concern. In fact, two times less so far. But they are shooting .790 this season as compared to .699 through 5 last year.
The next concern is 3 point shooting. You know that will be a staple of the Beilein game and they've taken 107 3 pt shots through 5 (112 last season). However, in spite of bringing in "shooters" like Douglass and Novak, their percentage is down (.308 instead of .375 last year).
Next concern - turnovers. 56 last year, 63 this year. Not a number that should be increasing with more comfort in the offense.
The good news, though - assists. 81 this season instead of 64 last season.

Obviously the win over UCLA, who continues to be ranked in the top 11-13, is a big difference. Losing by only 15 to Duke looks better than losing by 14 to Butler, not to mention losing by 22 to Georgetown.

Fact is, this team should enter Big Ten play no worse than 9-3, a MAJOR upgrade over last season's 4-8. Then, with LLP in place, they should be able to improve last year's 5-13 Big Ten mark to, say, 8-10.

Prediction: finishing the year 17-13 (18-13 after the Big Ten tourney) which will get them back into the NIT and be a nice improvement.
Then, assuming Manny doesn't leave, they'll bring back everyone outside of Lee, Merritt, and Shepherd (very little production from those three) and make it to the NCAA tournament the following year. If Harris leaves, however, all bets are off.

Can this have its own thread? The team is actually worth talking about (a little) for the first time in years. I want to discuss in a big way without it being lost in the muck of the general thread. I'm guessing State should have their own thread as well, with posts moved in to respective threads and the general left over for other big games - as there will be plenty to talk about this season.

Anyhow, moving on to UM.

This 4-1 start is nice, but I'm wondering just how much I should be expecting based on an early measuring stick. Last year they started 3-2 through 5 and ended up 10-22. So I chose to look at the similarities and differences. Some encouraging things here, and others that show cause for concern. I think it's fair to compare, since both seasons included 3 teams that were not really challenges along with two top 10 teams.

First, I'm curious about the offense. What really hurt them last season was the fact that they simply could not shoot at all. They finished the year with a FG% of .395, which will kill any team. Well, they didn't start out quite that bad. Through 5 last year they shot .434. This year so far they're at .455. They've gotten off 8 more shots through 5 games, so the number of attempts is similar.
They aren't getting to the line any more, which is a concern. In fact, two times less so far. But they are shooting .790 this season as compared to .699 through 5 last year.
The next concern is 3 point shooting. You know that will be a staple of the Beilein game and they've taken 107 3 pt shots through 5 (112 last season). However, in spite of bringing in "shooters" like Douglass and Novak, their percentage is down (.308 instead of .375 last year).
Next concern - turnovers. 56 last year, 63 this year. Not a number that should be increasing with more comfort in the offense.
The good news, though - assists. 81 this season instead of 64 last season.

Obviously the win over UCLA, who continues to be ranked in the top 11-13, is a big difference. Losing by only 15 to Duke looks better than losing by 14 to Butler, not to mention losing by 22 to Georgetown.

Fact is, this team should enter Big Ten play no worse than 9-3, a MAJOR upgrade over last season's 4-8. Then, with LLP in place, they should be able to improve last year's 5-13 Big Ten mark to, say, 8-10.

Prediction: finishing the year 17-13 (18-13 after the Big Ten tourney) which will get them back into the NIT and be a nice improvement.
Then, assuming Manny doesn't leave, they'll bring back everyone outside of Lee, Merritt, and Shepherd (very little production from those three) and make it to the NCAA tournament the following year. If Harris leaves, however, all bets are off.
That was a lot of effort, kid. It was so thorough that you convinced me, links are better than patties

Is it too soon to second-guess myself? UM was down by 20 in the first half against SAVANNAH STATE today. Sure, it's a Savannah State team that came in 4-1, but Clemson just beat them by 32. UM eventually won, but they only won by 2 and needed OT to do it.

Biggest problem? They were shooting 3-21 from 3 point range at one point, while SS had made 6-7 or something like that.

Jeth, just wait. Laval Lucas-Perry is eligible to return December 20 when we play Oakland.

His shooting alone is going to slove alot of our mid-range inconsistencies, and LLP can create his own shot, so he can free up guys like Novak, Wright, and Douglass on the perimeter.

I mean seriously, can you imagine how much better we'd be if Ekpe didn't leave?? He was one of the top defenders in the Big Ten last year, leading the conference in blocks, and he decides to sit out a year so he can transfer to Baylor!??! I bet he was second-guessing himself when he watched UM knock of UCLA...

Is it too soon to second-guess myself? UM was down by 20 in the first half against SAVANNAH STATE today. Sure, it's a Savannah State team that came in 4-1, but Clemson just beat them by 32. UM eventually won, but they only won by 2 and needed OT to do it.

Biggest problem? They were shooting 3-21 from 3 point range at one point, while SS had made 6-7 or something like that.

Just when I was starting to get a little excited.

Someone tell me why Michigan/Maryland is not on TV...

I'm getting it on ESPN U 63-59 Terps

Grady missed a bunny that could have made it interesting.

Then Wright cans a 3. Down 5 with 20 secs left.

UofM is getting better. The Terps aren't good. Any team losing to the Terps should check themselves.

I never thought I would say this, thank god football season is over. Now I can just focus on Wolverine basketball!

I didn't get to see the game, but the free throws were 20-6 in favor of the Terps. Home court advantage?

Anybody seen a point spread for tomorrow's UM/Duke game?

I could use a link.

Michigans RPI's going to have taken quite a hit after tomorrow...

Hello NIT (again).

Michigans RPI's going to have taken quite a hit after tomorrow...

Hello NIT (again).

Not exactly. Those are 3 quality losses. Duke twice and Maryland on the road. Duke is a legit top 5 team and Maryland is top 25 material. As long as :we: win our jick games and play pretty solid in the Big Ten :we: should be alright.

I'm curious to see what LLP will bring to the table. If he can play the point better than Merritt and Grady, than I'll be a bit more optomistic.

I STILL wish we had Ekpe!

Couple possessions away from getting on the map.

Not exactly. Those are 3 quality losses. Duke twice and Maryland on the road.


...bet someone feels like a douchebag....

Never ever count a Belien-coached team out, especially when he has a game's worth of tape to go over and make adjustments.

I didn't see Gerald Henderson owning us this time around...

haha, kstat, you beat me to this post. Awesome game by the wolverines...can't we have a school with two Good programs? As in a football and basketball one? When one goes up, the other must go down.

Belien has the luxury of being in his 2nd year. I expect similar improvement out of Rodriguez next fall.

Let's not forget Michigan was 10-22 last season. It takes time to voerhaul an entire program.

Outstanding basketball game. I watched it start to finish, and it was more enjoyable than any football game they had this fall...

Two huge, top 5 wins that could REALLY put them in the tournament if they're on the bubble come spring...

Go Blue!

Deshawn Sims developed into an elite NCAA player. Wow, what a concept.

Someone alert Tommy Amaker that you CAN make players better...

Oh, and we better be ranked come monday. This bullshit needs to end. We've beaten more top-5 teams than anybody in the country, and half the teams in the rankings haven't beaten any ranked teams at all.

Fantastic game. The difference between this team and every Michigan team of the past 11 years is that when they get down by 4 or 6 or 8, they're not out of it. The other teams would roll over and die. This team fights all the way to the finish.

TIVO'd...can't wait till later.

By the way, as soon as Grady figures out how to finish, he'll be a very good player.

It really was great to see them play with energy and poise down the stretch.

They will certainly be ranked after this. They were nowhere to be found at the beginning of the season, ranked in the top 35-40 after the UCLA game. Now this game on ESPN has shown voters they deserve some love.

As for tournament aspirations, I'm not expecting this team to make it. I think a very good season could leave them with a similar resume to what OSU had last year. They finished 19-12 (I don't expect UM to finish with 19 wins at this point) and 10-8 in the conference. What hurt OSU was losing 6 of their last 10 games, then a first round exit in the Big Ten tourney. UM could actually lose 8 of their last 10, because their schedule gets that tough. Check it out:
at Purdue - loss
Penn State - win
at UConn - loss
MSU - loss
at Northwestern - win
Minnesota - loss?
at Iowa - (they can shoot the 3 and they're tough at home) loss
Purdue - loss
at Wisconsin - loss
Minnesota - loss

If they can split with Purdue and Minnesota, and take Iowa, they would be .500 in their last 10 (which includes a tilt against a very good UConn team on the road) and they just might make it in, especially if they make it to the Big Ten tourney championship game.

But we have months to go until then, so getting in the rankings seems inevitable right now, but it's very premature to expect the kind of sustained performance that gets them in the tourney, considering how many berths go out to conference champions.

Note - if UM reproduces OSU's win total, they might have an in because OSU was horrible against ranked opponents. The lost 9 of 11 games against ranked teams, with their only wins coming against Purdue and MSU at home, and they were ranked 18 and 20. UM's two victories over top 5 teams already has them beat. OSU only played two top 5 teams all season and lost both (UNC and Wisconsin). Unless UConn somehow drops, UM will have at least 4 games against top 5 teams.

We will be 10-2 before Big Ten play...

a .500 record in conference play, along with a 1-1 showing in the Big Ten Tourney, and a Loss to UCONN..

that should get us in the tournament...

Even though we'll lose to UCONN, they're going to really boost our SOS.

Plus, God only knows what Laval Lucas-Perry will bring to the table, if he's better than Merritt & Grady, than who knows what can happen.

What do the asterisks mean?

http://www.mgoblue.com/basketball-m/page.aspx?id=142632

I have the feeling its something really obvious.

The effort was great and had zero to do with Beileins pregame speech.

"Ok, this is not a 7 game series tonight, Ok? This is just 1 game tonight"

after beline's speech i ripped a phone book in half with my bare hands.

What do the asterisks mean?

http://www.mgoblue.com/basketball-m/page.aspx?id=142632

I have the feeling its something really obvious.


asterisks mean the number of varsity letters they have...

Thx and I wasn't even close.

Did you think it was the number of times the ghost of Ed Martin offered them money?

We beat a fairly unathletic Duke team pretty good last night. If we use our athleticism in Unathletic 10 play like we did against Duke last night, we'll be competing for a title.

Did you think it was the number of times the ghost of Ed Martin offered them money?

Now THAT'S funny, jethro!

http://www.sportaphile.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/isiah-thomas-white-people.jpg

Why does Michigan play UCONN right in the middle of the Big Ten season?

Michigan still unranked, while other 2-loss teams that haven't beaten anyone (MSU/Purdue) stay in the top 25.

Good to know the fab 5 hate still lingers.

with 2 wins over top 4 teams (at the time) they should be ranked for sure.

The beat UCLA (2 loss team) who's best win is against Southern Illinois and yet UCLA is ranked 16th. LOL

Having U of M unranked is ridiculous. Has anyone else beat 2 top 15 opponents yet, much less two top 5 teams?

Wow, what a joke. Just goes to show that NCAA is more about hype than results. Actually I think this is good. It should make the team play with a chip on its shoulder. They played poorly against a Savannah State team that had some swagger. They need to now win the games they're supposed to. They can start by kicking the crap out of a very bad Eastern team. Then, they'll get their first game with LLP playing at the Palace against a 5-5 Oakland team with an experienced backcourt who beat Oregon on the road. That's the trap game. They need to play strong in that game because it could be in front of a pretty large crowd and the excitement of having LLP on board will be interesting. Then Florida Gulf Coast is bad and North Carolina Central is HORRIBLE, so that's two more games that should allow them to get even more comfortable with the rotation Beilein ends up using with LLP before they start conference play.

What I'm saying is, so what that they aren't ranked now. If they take care of business, especially avoiding the upset against Oakland, then they'll be 10-2 in 3 weeks and in good position for a run in the Big Ten. It's more important to be ranked in January than it is to be ranked in December (even more important to be ranked in February). They're strength of schedule (currently $5 in the country but apparently that's not important right now) will take a major hit, but it's the on-court experience to prepare for the Big Ten schedule that is most important.

Still, an outrage that they aren't ranked. Top 30, though, right?

UM's RPI is 11th in the country...

In essence, they'd be a 3 or 4 seed if the Tournament started today...

scout article...


Miami (FL) Palmetto star Tim Hardaway Jr. traveled to the Great Lake State with his dad last weekend and witnessed the Wolverines upset the fourth ranked Duke Blue Devils. Michigan’s strong showing both on and off the floor made the distinct impression on the talented guard prospect. He gave GoBlueWolverine the latest on exactly where Michigan stands in his recruitment.


Some say first impressions are everything. Fortunately for the Michigan Wolverines that didn’t hold true for Miami (FL) Palmetto guard Tim Hardaway Jr. The strong dose of winter was the first thing the Sunshine State native noticed upon arriving in the Great Lake State.

“It was cold,” said Hardaway Jr.

Had the visit ended there, the Wolverines would be on the outside looking in at Hardaway’s recruitment… but it didn’t, and they aren’t. The chill in the air couldn’t stop himfrom enjoying himself once he arrived on campus.

“I had a great time,” he said. “I like the way the campus is set up everything is together. I like the size of the dorm rooms and I like the way everything is so nice, neat and clean up there”.

Hardaway’s experience went to the next level when it came time to take in the Wolverines’ battle with Duke. The talented youngster was extremely impressed with the way Michigan handled the country’s fourth ranked team.

“Michigan won because of their defense, rebounds and backdoor cuts,” explained Hardaway. “I like how they shot the ball. If they had made more lay-ups Duke would have lost by more. Michigan’s offense got what they wanted. They ran the show, they stayed calm, and they were patient in running their offense.”

When the buzzer sounded Hardaway was more in awe of the crowd reaction than he was of the game’s final score.

“WOW,” he said recalling the fans rushing the floor. “That was the first time I have ever seen that. I mean… I see it on television, but not up close like that. Me and my dad were laughing. Those students were really excited.”

Hardaway was accompanied on the trip by his father, former NBA great/crossover king Tim Hardaway Sr. After seeing the Wolverines in person, both feel that the rising prospect would fit in well in Ann Arbor.

“My dad said he could see me playing in this offense,” said Hardaway Jr. “I can see myself playing in this offense it is the same offensive sets we run at my high school. I talked with Coach Beilein and told me they would love to have me play at Michigan. He told me that this would be a good offense for me to play in.”

Hardaway also had the chance to spend a little time with the game’s star, DeShawn Sims.

“I was telling DeShawn how much I enjoyed watching him play and he told me if I liked that, then that is why I should come and play and Michigan,” the 6-5, 175-pounder said. “DeShawn was undersized in that game and to play like that is amazing. He played hard. He really came with it (Saturday) in the game.”

With a greater appreciation for the direction of John Beilein’s program, the Hardaway’s indicated that Michigan is an even stronger factor in versatile guard’s recruitment. Based on the strong recruiting punch continuously being delivered by Michigan assistant John Mahoney, that isn’t likely to change.

“I talk to Coach Mahoney regularly,” stated Hardaway. “Michigan is the school that is showing me the most love right now. “

If/when that love results in a scholars

Is he anything close to as good as his dad was (at that stage)?

Apparently several recruits saw the win and were impressed:

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=886929&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid=

I'm guessing that would be a good article for people with Rivals access to read (A51, cough).

I'm predicting Tim Hardaway Jr. does NOT end up at UM. Why? Ann Arbor is very liberal and gay-friendly. Remember Tim Sr's comments about Jon Amaechi?

By the way, both scout and rivals rate Hardaway as a 3 star, and the player mentioned in the rivals article, SF Allen Payne, is a rivals 3 star and scout 2 star. Both class of 2010.

So how good is this LLP kid? Is he going to make a significant difference?

So how good is this LLP kid? Is he going to make a significant difference?


Can't be worse than Dave Merritt, so I suppose it's an upgrade by default.

Based on what I've heard (since I haven't seen him play), he has the ability to create his own shot and get to the basket, but he doesn't have much of a perimeter shot...

The fact that he can score is good enough for me. Kelvin Grady is way too inconsistent and Merritt is border-line useless...

So how good is this LLP kid? Is he going to make a significant difference?


Can't be worse than Dave Merritt, so I suppose it's an upgrade by default.

Based on what I've heard (since I haven't seen him play), he has the ability to create his own shot and get to the basket, but he doesn't have much of a perimeter shot...

The fact that he can score is good enough for me. Kelvin Grady is way too inconsistent and Merritt is border-line useless...

Thx Wil

Thx WilL

I mean, could the kid be any worse than Dave Merritt?

Does he have much of a perimeter shot?

I was wondering about Merritt's merit...anything?

Can't be worse than Dave Merritt, so I suppose it's an upgrade by default.

Based on what I've heard (since I haven't seen him play), he has the ability to create his own shot and get to the basket, but he doesn't have much of a perimeter shot...

The fact that he can score is good enough for me. Kelvin Grady is way too inconsistent and Merritt is border-line useless...
Actually the Wolverine publication disagrees. While they have some bias, this is what it says in his profile:

Good shooter and passer who often stood out in Michigan practices while sitting out after a transfer last season...Will provide a significant skills upgrade for the Wolverines on the perimeter once he's eligible.
Also, keep in mind that he graduated the same season as Dar Tucker, Manny Harris, Kalin Lucas and Durrell Summers (he was the 5th of the 5 that were finalists for Mr. Basketball) and yet he was the MVP of the Michigan High School All-Star game (he scored 30 points).
He's intelligent, he was a two-time all-state selection, and he averaged 21 pts and 8 boards his senior year playing at Flint Powers.

Everything I'm hearing is that this kid is a knock-down shooter from the arc.

Whether he can shoot well or not, he certainly sounds like he can step in and be a better option than either Lee or Merritt. Grady is fast, and there are surely times we'll want Grady on the floor. He's streaky, which is good some nights and bad others and when it's bad it can be pretty dang bad, but that energy and speed is a weapon. However, if LLP can defend, pass, shoot and he brings several more inches in size at 6'3"-6'4", he'll be great.

Final thing to keep in mind. I stated some concern about the team being used to playing with him in games. Well, the team - up to this point - has probably struggled playing without him in games. See, he's been practicing with them for nearly a year. They know quite well what he is capable of and it SHOULD be fairly smooth and an instant working addition.

I'm still worried about a letdown against Oakland, however.

Regarding LLP, he has been practicing with both the 1st and 2nd units in practice this year in order to give flexibility to any potential lineups. From everything out there it sounds like it sounds like LLP will not start immediately, but will slowly work his way into the lineup and should be starting by Big Ten play.

He can play the 1 with Stu or Novack at the 2. He can also play the 2 with Grady or Merritt in the game at any point. There has also been some talk about a lineup that is TINY with Grady, Stu/Novak, LLP, Manny and Peedie. However, that lineup is looking less likely unless we come up against some team that is extremely small. During Big Ten play I think it would be beneficial to have our rotation look like this............

Grady
LLP
Douglass
Novak
Manny
Peedie
Shep
Gibson

I honestly think Shep has been a pleasant surprise this year. He does some of the dirty things that this team is lacking. He is our best on the ball defender, but gets stuck playing most team's 4-man. The Big Ten isn't really loaded with HUGE big men which is why he can play and be effective for us. I'm glad that he finally gets it and he is a perfect example of what happens when you have a teacher as a coach...............

P.S. if he shot better from deep he would be getting 30 minutes a game, but clearly that is the worst part about his game, but unlike Ant Wright he doesn't hoist 8 or 9 shots a game.

Do you think Ben Cronin will at any point be part of the rotation?

Or is he Gibson's replacement next year.

I saw Cronin in the Savannah St game, and even though he's slow and somewhat raw, he could be a major asset for rebounding and interior defense.

Re: posts 61 and 62 -
Small ball lineup would definitely work against a team like Iowa, who starts Cyrus Tate at 6'8" at the 5 and only have two other players on their roster that are bigger (both are 6'9") and neither is a major factor in their games. Penn State and Indiana are also small-ish, though not as small as Iowa. So that gives us 5 games (unfortunately the one year Indiana is dreadful we only play them a single time).
As for not starting right away, I'm ok with that. Clearly coming off the bench has been effective for Sims. In fact, bringing the two of them in together 5 minutes in could be amazing.

Next, re: Cronin. His size is great, and I would love to see more of him in some of the next few games if the rotation players can build a big lead. Any run he can get will help get him ready because I have a feeling we'll need him in a handful of games. Certainly his 7'5" wingspan would be nice against UConn and Thabeet. A couple other teams have size as well, and I'm just not sure I want to see Wright/Shep at the 4 and Sims at the 5 for extended minutes against big teams if Gibson gets in foul trouble or otherwise. Early on it was supposedly a bad hip limiting Cronin. That's got to be getting better and I imagine a redshirt is out of the question at this point, though I don;t know the rules there.

Cronin is allowed to play in no more than 30% of games at any point. If he sees the floor in the next week or two it will only be to test him out, but I'd guess he is 85% a redshirt right now. The only way I see him not redshirting is if one of our bigs goes down or he really turns it on and is healthy enough to give us 12-15 minutes a game.

Michigan still unranked, while other 2-loss teams that haven't beaten anyone (MSU/Purdue) stay in the top 25.

Good to know the fab 5 hate still lingers.


As it should.(remembers that they never won anything)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/27/93628583_d301537c0f_o.jpg

Next, re: Cronin. His size is great, and I would love to see more of him in some of the next few games if the rotation players can build a big lead. Any run he can get will help get him ready because I have a feeling we'll need him in a handful of games. Certainly his 7'5" wingspan would be nice against UConn and Thabeet. A couple other teams have size as well, and I'm just not sure I want to see Wright/Shep at the 4 and Sims at the 5 for extended minutes against big teams if Gibson gets in foul trouble or otherwise. Early on it was supposedly a bad hip limiting Cronin. That's got to be getting better and I imagine a redshirt is out of the question at this point, though I don;t know the rules there.

Wizzle told me he was watching the game vs. Norfolk St. where Cronin played and the announcers compared him to a "baby giraffe". I'm not excited.

The thing I look forward to with him is the fact that he's not 6'10" and 165 lbs like a number of the "bigs" UM has recruited lately. Those guys are nice and all to get the occasional accidental rebound and fly-by block shot before their ribs crack in a stiff breeze. This guy is legitimately big. In fact, they had him drop some weight (in the non-Tractor Traylor way). He sounds like he can actually get down low and box out and hold his own against a guy like BJ Mullens. I just think he has the ability to be a rare solid middle presence on a team that otherwise seems to be going to way (in the future) of an offense with 5 white guys all under 6'5" on the floor at the same time.

What are the red-shirt rules in NCAA Basketball??

Lucas-Perry played in what? 10 games last year at Arizona yet he still has 4 years of eligiblity.

Is it a percentage of games played?

What are the red-shirt rules in NCAA Basketball??

Lucas-Perry played in what? 10 games last year at Arizona yet he still has 4 years of eligiblity.

Is it a percentage of games played?

LLP has 3.5 years of eligibity right now. He is playing as a redshirt freshman and at the end of this year he will officially be a RS-Soph.

Explain to me how they are 1) not in the current tournament field projections and 2) not even in the bubble team listings:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncb/nitty

EDIT - I just noticed this must be from last year. It doesn't give the date, but the records have to be from last year.

I'm glad it says 2008-2009 up there on the top and it will be "updated daily/weekly"

(That looks like it's last year, even though it says 2008-2009. All the records are from the previous season)

as of Monday, our RPI ranked 11th in the country, which would translate into a 3 or 4 seed....

They just came out with the ESPN Power Rankings and here's how they voted:

Jay Bilas: 21
Hubert Davis: unranked
Pat Forde: 24
Fran Fraschilla: 24
Doug Gottlieb: 19
Andy Katz: 16
Joe Lunardi: unranked
Dana O'Neal: 25
Mark Schlabach: unranked
Dickey V: unranked

MSU unranked in 4 of the 10 polls.

How can someone have you as high as 16, and others have you unranked???

Ranked 25th over all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking

JB will not be motivating today due to illness

Good win. Didn't look good from the get-go, but Manny looked awesome in the second half.

I was hoping Cronin would've gotten into the game yesterday once UM went up by 20.

But it wasn't meant to be.

I think he is red-shirting.

I was hoping Cronin would've gotten into the game yesterday once UM went up by 20.

But it wasn't meant to be.

I read that he'll probably redshirt, and assistant Jerry Dunn did not want to put him into the game without Beilein's approval.

BTW, I'm not saying "we're back" yet, but this team is definitely fun to watch. I was excited all week long for a Michigan-EMU basketball game. I don't think that's EVER been the case before. Can't wait to see how "we" look with LLP.

New rankings:

26th in the AP
28th in the Coaches

Good win today. LLP played less than 20 minutes but still managed 14 points, while stroking the three effectively. Manny dished 13 assists! The people who doubted Manny have got to be eating their words. He is thriving at UM.

I was worried about this game but a solid double-digit win is nice.
With Davidson, Memphis and BYU all losing today it might finally be time for the top 25.

I could only catch the game a little bit at a time, but LLP looked very good from what I saw, and the rest of the team was shooting the 3 ball well. I worry that they might lose some games if the threes don't drop. Manny is the only true slasher on the team.

I could only catch the game a little bit at a time, but LLP looked very good from what I saw, and the rest of the team was shooting the 3 ball well. I worry that they might lose some games if the threes don't drop. Manny is the only true slasher on the team.

It will be tough to get W's without the 3's dropping, but Manny can get to the basket anytime he wants to, and DeShawn is reminding me a little bit of Karl Malone (+ 3 point range) right now. Scores down low, beast on the glass, and a legit jumpshot all the way to the arc. On top of those two, you've now got LLP who can slash a bit and is a very solid #3 scorer.

By the way, here's what's going to happen tomorrow. MSU picks up a quality win against a good opponent, so they are going to jump up several spots. Michigan, who already has two very quality wins will probably barely get into the top 25. The NCAA rankings are about the most bias system I have ever seen, the BCS being the only one that's worse.

I really think rankings should not be done until the third or fourth week of the year. That eliminates some bias. If that were the case, Michigan would probably be ranked in the 15-18 range, and MSU would be a bit lower.

We should create an "unbiased" NCAA ranking thread, as teams should be ranked as to how they've played so far and not how political basketball coaches have them ranked.

By the way, here's what's going to happen tomorrow. MSU picks up a quality win against a good opponent, so they are going to jump up several spots. Michigan, who already has two very quality wins will probably barely get into the top 25. The NCAA rankings are about the most bias system I have ever seen, the BCS being the only one that's worse.

I really think rankings should not be done until the third or fourth week of the year. That eliminates some bias. If that were the case, Michigan would probably be ranked in the 15-18 range, and MSU would be a bit lower.

We should create an "unbiased" NCAA ranking thread, as teams should be ranked as to how they've played so far and not how political basketball coaches have them ranked.

<insert bukdow quote about Walmart Wolvies putting UM at #1 here.>

I figured that would be coming. But bukdow, I promise that I would have Michigan no higher than #19, because I don't think they're a great team. They're good, not great. But they do have a good resume right now. I fully expect them to lose some games that they shouldn't in the Big Ten season.

<bukdow asks MoTown if he realizes he's a fag.>

Seriously bukdow, WTF? Responses like that don't even contribute to the conversation. If you want to rip U of M and the many Walmart Wolverines on this board, go do it somewhere else. Go back where you came from.

ESPN/USA Today Poll
1. North Carolina (31) 11-0 775
2. Connecticut 10-0 737
3. Pittsburgh 12-0 715
4. Oklahoma 11-0 683
5. Duke 10-1 651
6. Wake Forest 10-0 552
7. Gonzaga 8-2 499
8. Texas 9-2 486
9. Georgetown 8-1 476
10. UCLA 8-2 465
11. Notre Dame 8-2 398
12. Xavier 9-1 392
13. Ohio State 8-0 371
14. Syracuse 11-1 368
15. Purdue 9-2 341
16. Villanova 10-1 324
17. Arizona State 9-1 306
18. Michigan State 8-2 254
19. Louisville 7-2 231
20. Clemson 12-0 218
21. Tennessee 8-2 215
22. Baylor 9-1 163
23. Minnesota 10-0 78
24. Memphis 6-3 60
25. Marquette 9-2 58
Others Receiving Votes
Brigham Young 44, Davidson 39, Michigan 38, Missouri 28, Dayton 26, Butler 14, Saint Mary's 14, Miami (FL) 10, Kansas 10, Arizona 9, Wisconsin 9, West Virginia 5, Florida 4, Illinois State 3, LSU 3, Stanford 3.


You have got to be kidding me...

At least we are #24 in the AP poll. Now we just need Tubby Smith and Minnesota to stop stealing some of our thunder..........ha ha.

I'm a bit surprised that Maryland didn't get a single vote. They're 8-2 and both of their losses were by more than 20 points, but they were against Gonzaga and Georgetown.

This will be an interesting year. There are a ton of teams with 8+ wins in strong conferences so far.
I just counted and looking at some conferences I see 2 Atlantic 10 teams, 7 ACC teams, 4 Missouri Valley teams, 3 Mountain West teams, 8 Big Ten teams, 6 Big 12 teams, 9 Big East teams, 4 Pac 10 teams, and 4 SEC teams that all have pretty nice non-conference resumes. That's 47 teams. Aren't there like 31 automatic bids? I references 9 conferences, so 22 left added to the 47 leaves 69 teams, meaning 4 are snubbed and I didn't even include Georgia Tech, Oklahoma State, Louisville, USC, Kentucky or Iowa. We've still got a lot of basketball left, but it's shaping up to be a pretty interesting run to see who gets to lose along the way to UNC.

Huge win last night against a powerhouse Florida Gulf Coast Institute of Business Technology... or whoever the fuck they played last night.

DeShawn Sims had 20/20.

3's just weren't falling, I think UM shot 28% on 42 attempts beyond the arc.

LLP shot well, however, scoring 10.

Manny Harris only got 6.

Obviously this was just a tough game to get up for.

I hope their success doesn't lead them to take teams for granted. I would hate to see conference losses to NW, PSU or Indiana simply because the team couldn't get up for it.

UM had a 23-6 lead last night before they really started to let it slip, realizing how easy the game could be in spite of the fact that they weren't hitting shots.

And I really wish Manny would get smarter with the ball. 3 turnovers in that game is terrible. If Manny stops making stupid turnovers and Sims gets a better shot selection, this team will finish in the top 4 or 5 in the Big Ten.

Big week for Michigan: A cupcake before the Big Ten season opens, and then Wednesday against Wisconsin and Sunday against Illinois.

Michigan ranked #23 and #24 in the polls.

Big week for Michigan: A cupcake before the Big Ten season opens, and then Wednesday against Wisconsin and Sunday against Illinois.

Michigan ranked #23 and #24 in the polls.

That's what :we:, in the business, call "setting the stage".

Take notes on this stuff, people.

That's what :we:, in the business, call "setting the stage".

Take notes on this stuff, people.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9277/eggs0so4.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4141/ackinuh5.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8178/relry3.jpg

Huge Comeback tonight...

Huge Comeback tonight...

Gutsy.

Not to take anything away from the comeback, but the Wolverines cannot let a first half like that happen again. They looked terrible in the first half and played very uninspired. I hope they learn from that.

Michigan killing Iowa...

They should be back in the Top 25 next week. Minnesota & Boston College are certain to fall out.

Michigan dominated that game so much it got boring quickly. Sims still doesn't see open players like he should and Manny turns the ball over by forcing it a little too much, but the team as a whole played great yesterday. I was impressed by the "team" concept Beilein has created.

Not sure if anyone was aware, but Saturday is going to be the celebration of the 1989 Championship Team. There is going to be a celebration at halftime against Ohio State and many of the old players will be in attendance. Also, Adidas has created dark blue replica jerseys for the team to wear in honor of 1989 during the game. Here is a list of some of the players...........

Glen Rice
Rumeal
Erick "Slinky" Riley
Terry Mills
Loy Vaught
and a bunch of bench players and student manager types

Nice shot by Sims.

It's games like this that make me realize the Wolverines are good, but just not there yet. The team is missing a go-to post presence, as Sims likes to float a little too much some times.

It's games like this that make me realize the Wolverines are good, but just not there yet. The team is missing a go-to post presence, as Sims likes to float a little too much some times.


UM will be in MAJOR trouble vs. teams that have an athletic big...

wait until they play UCONN in a few weeks...they have nobody that can stay with Thabeet...

WE NEED CRONIN!?!?

It's games like this that make me realize the Wolverines are good, but just not there yet. The team is missing a go-to post presence, as Sims likes to float a little too much some times.
Isn`t a "floating post presence" exactly Bielein`s system? Shoot the three at all costs?

Possibly. But I'm sure he would understand that a dominating post presence would open up the three pointer a whole lot more.

Also, I know the Wolverines are guard heavy, but I don't like it when they have three or four point guards on the floor at the same time with Sims. Lee and Grady shouldn't play at the same time, and Merritt should never play altogether.

Possibly. But I'm sure he would understand that a dominating post presence would open up the three pointer a whole lot more.

Also, I know the Wolverines are guard heavy, but I don't like it when they have three or four point guards on the floor at the same time with Sims. Lee and Grady shouldn't play at the same time, and Merritt should never play altogether.
Correct me if I am wrong, but even at WV didn`t the big men (Pittsnogle) primarily shoot the three? I remember when Bielein was hired, the first knock on his system was his lack of a post presence in favor of shooting the three wasn`t going to work so well in the Big Ten.

Personally, I think he is doing a good job in his second season. However, if he continues to focus on three-point shooting guards and "big men", he will indeed only go so far in the Big Ten and nationally. Sure, there will be those moments and games when the shots are falling, but overall the approach is incomplete.

True, but remember the WVU doesn't have the same recruiting sell as a team in the Big Ten does. I don't know if it was a matter of Bielien not wanting a tough post player, or not being able to land one. I do remember an unathletic big man or two in there at certain times for WVU that seemed to be for defensive purposes only. I don't remember his name. Perhaps that will be something for me to look up when I get home.

Maybe that's something he will transition into doing in the Big Ten. He hasn't added many of his own players yet, but I'm sure we'll revisit this when he does.

True, but remember the WVU doesn't have the same recruiting sell as a team in the Big Ten does. I don't know if it was a matter of Bielien not wanting a tough post player, or not being able to land one. I do remember an unathletic big man or two in there at certain times for WVU that seemed to be for defensive purposes only. I don't remember his name. Perhaps that will be something for me to look up when I get home.

Maybe that's something he will transition into doing in the Big Ten. He hasn't added many of his own players yet, but I'm sure we'll revisit this when he does.
I would say players like Stuart Douglas are quintessential Bielein players. As far as the lack of a talented big man, I think this will continue to be a problem as it is fairly obvious Bielein`s system is about perimeter offense (i.e shooting the three). Therefore, a talented big man will not want to go to UM because he will be second chair. Nonetheless, Bielein has done a good job making UM competetive again. I expect a very good game when MSU travels to Ann Arbor.

A talented big man that can shoot will go to UM.

Kevin Pittsnogle-esque.

A talented big man that can shoot will go to UM.

Kevin Pittsnogle-esque.
That is not a low-post presence.

That is not a low-post presence.


4 years of Ben Cronin will make you rethink your assessment, buk.

Be prepared.

bukdow is always prepared.

It certainly would have been nice to have Cronin against Illinois. He can shoot, but he excels at shotblocking. He would have shut Tisdale up a bit and could have clogged the lane a bit to keep Sims from playing tentative.

Adding Cronin, along with McLimans and Morgan next year definitely makes us bigger. Whether they are low post or not (Morgan absolutely is) they at least provide the option for UM to go small or big and they can adjust on any team. Fact was that even at 110 lbs, Tisdale was a tough cover that night because he's so long. Zach Gibson wasn't a good match that night, and Sims got his shot messed with one time and it kept him from going strong the rest of the night. He'll be coached out of that approach - his bad.

If we can have a lineup that will allow Sims to play the 4, UM will be much better. Their strength is always going to be perimeter shooting, but defensive rebounding will need to improve.

next year...

C- Jordan Morgan (Fr) / Ben Cronin (RS-Fr) / Blake McLimans (Fr)
PF- DeShawn Sims (Sr) / Zack Gibson (RS-Sr)
SF- Manny Harris (Jr) / Matt Vogrich (Fr) / Anthony Wright (RS-Jr)
SG- Zack Novak (So) / Stu Douglass (So)
PG- Laval Lucas-Perry (So) / Kelvin Grady (Jr) / Darius Morris (Fr)

Sheppard, Merritt, Lee will all be gone...


Like I've been saying all season, just think how much better UM would be this year if Ekpe Udoh hadn't transferred to BAYLOR!

Once again we get killed by not having a credible big guy last night. I really like LLP, but I'm starting to think that his presence is slightly messing with team chemistry.

P.S. We CANNOT play four smalls with DeShawn Sims when Peedie is missing ALL of his shots.

Once again we get killed by not having a credible big guy last night. I really like LLP, but I'm starting to think that his presence is slightly messing with team chemistry.

P.S. We CANNOT play four smalls with DeShawn Sims when Peedie is missing ALL of his shots.

That's exactly why we need him at the 4 with a big brute knocking around the opposing C.

Starting to look bound for the N.I.T.

The lack of a post presence is starting to really become a major problem. It prevents them from being able to play man defense since they can't hang with anybody under the basket, and they're forced to play zone all game.

Not to mention they seem to all go cold from the perimeter at the same time.

Starting to look bound for the N.I.T.


Michigan basketball is BACK, baby!

What a way to waste a couple top 5 wins. Great job, Blue.

I've got to agree with bkdow, and it's based on the football/Rodiguez argument: Belein has a "system" and he's going to recruit to that system, and that's all he gonna do. There will be no power forwards or "standard" big post player at UM with Belein there. He probably took the job for that recruiting "upsell" or whatever the hell Motwon was talking albout, but just to get better talented players that fit his "system".

If he can get some studz, I do think it will work, especially come tourney time. If you look at the team MSU won their championship with, I don't recall a Big Post player, but a lot of athletic guys who were hustlers, jumpers, leaders, and Big Shot makers. I don't necessarily think you need a prototypical Big Post guy to win in the Big Ten or in The Big Dance. BUT, it is clear Belein needs something different because the players are getting tired, the other teams are figuring how to defense the perimeter, and the shots aren't falling.

We have what we have: Two coaches who have to get "their guys" for "their system". If they don't get "their guys", UM is fucked. Oh, but with better academix.

Wrong.

First, it's his 2nd year. What a time to judge the guy. They lsoe two games against guys 7'1" and then drop one on the road in their 4th game in 9 days. Now everything good they had done is crap.

Yes, they don't have a post prescence. Are we forgetting that they do, but he's out for the year? Cronin's legit size would have certainly slowed Tisdale and Mullens and those games were both close enough down the stretch that with Cronin they COULD have been W's.

If those games were W's then maybe the team isn't so down and physically and emotionally spent that they come out completely flat like they did last night.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that while they aren't "legit" this year, they're on their way and one of the pieces is sitting on their bench.

Wrong.

First, it's his 2nd year. What a time to judge the guy. They lsoe two games against guys 7'1" and then drop one on the road in their 4th game in 9 days. Now everything good they had done is crap.

Yes, they don't have a post prescence. Are we forgetting that they do, but he's out for the year? Cronin's legit size would have certainly slowed Tisdale and Mullens and those games were both close enough down the stretch that with Cronin they COULD have been W's.

If those games were W's then maybe the team isn't so down and physically and emotionally spent that they come out completely flat like they did last night.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that while they aren't "legit" this year, they're on their way and one of the pieces is sitting on their bench.

Who's judging him, ButtfuckerNose? I said I think it could WORK if he gets some studz. And if Belein had a big man, would he Pittsnorffle him and make him a three point shooter or a perimeter guy? The thing is a guard oriented offense with movement, backdoor cuts, and three-point shooting. It sounds to me like Belein's big men would be the ones negated by a protoypical big man post player, unless his stategery is to lure the other big man out with a Pittsnibble tye guy who can then fancy-foot around him.

UM take down the Spartan killers. 68-59.

now comes the gauntlet for UM...

@ Ohio St, @ UCONN, MSU...

Probably looking at an 0-3 stretch there...

now comes the gauntlet for UM...

@ Ohio St, @ UCONN, MSU...

Probably looking at an 0-3 stretch there...

And the tournament-less streak continues.

Beilein with a Tech. LOL

tO$U whooping some UM tail. What else is new?

They don't know who they're messing with. We're gonna kick their ass in the 2nd half. Unleash Beilein and its over.

They don't know who they're messing with. We're gonna kick their ass in the 2nd half. Unleash Beilein and its over.

You can have 'em. It's a well known fact that I despise college basketball. Just watching suttin' til the Wolves game comes on.

Did you see that pass, Tahoe?

Nope but its on. Is it worth backing up my tivo?

What about that dribble?

Don't get me started, this is not an App or Owns thread.

So that was ugly.

Countdown before bukdow comes on saying Zack Novak's elbow was the same as the MSU hockey incident and that Novak should be suspended for the rest of the season after which he quits school.

Oh, buk will be calling for much bigger things to happen.

So that was ugly.

Countdown before bukdow comes on saying Zack Novak's elbow was the same as the MSU hockey incident and that Novak should be suspended for the rest of the season after which he quits school.
I didn`t watch the game. Why the hell would I? Even without seeing said elbow, and being one who actually played competeive contact sports, I can say that shit happens. And when said shit happens, people look pretty fucking stupid calling for an Inquisition when some douchebag gets a "strained neck".

OK, I was able to get some info about Novak`s elbow to Hill and it sounds equal to what happened to the wee-little, whiny, UM hockey bitch.

I didn`t watch the game. Why the hell would I?

oh, I don't know......because it's sports on TV maybe?

Oh my fucking god. Manny Harris just got ejected for a pivot. That's nothing more than a flagrant foul. How much impact did the entire crowd chanting "Throw him out!" have on the refs? That's what pisses me off most.

This is very hard to watch without Manny in the game. I think it was definitely a flagrant, but I just find it hard to throw a kid out of a game when there is no "intent" with a foul. I think this is the first time in prolly 5 years I've ever turned a Michigan basketball game off before the end. We literally can't even dribble the ball which makes it tougher to watch than a middle school game.

Let's hope that his 1 game suspension doesn't come agaisnt Sparty or we'll lose it by 50 at least.

I don't think Manny will get suspended. It was Beilein who suspended Novak, not the Big Ten. This wasn't as animated as Novak's was, so I doubt Manny will be suspended.

We'll see though...

i thought it was ridiclous of them to toss manny til i looked up the rule, and pretty much they followed the rule to the letter.

sucked that we were working on a really good and needed win and the call pretty much determined the outcome of the game, but no one to blame but manny. he shouldnt be so careless with the elbows.

hopefully the play carries over, though. we look so much better when we hit some shots.

UM basketball is a bad joke. Truly unpleasant to watch. When they aren`t throwing up threes willy-nilly, they are throwing elbows. Not only a very poor excuse for basketball, but just teamwork and sportsmanship in general. And Rich Rodriguez is the football coach. Oy gevalt!

UM basketball is a bad joke. Truly unpleasant to watch. When they aren`t throwing up threes willy-nilly, they are throwing elbows. Not only a very poor excuse for basketball, but just teamwork and sportsmanship in general. And Rich Rodriguez is the football coach. Oy gevalt!


And yet still nobody outside of the state borders gives a rats ass about the Spartans, in any sport.

Funny how that works out...

UM basketball is a bad joke. Truly unpleasant to watch. When they aren`t throwing up threes willy-nilly, they are throwing elbows. Not only a very poor excuse for basketball, but just teamwork and sportsmanship in general. And Rich Rodriguez is the football coach. Oy gevalt!

Don't worry. I think the guy only had a strained neck. What a douche that guy is.

Hey, John Thompson came out a few weeks ago and said Georgetown needs to get back to the days of thuggery. I like it. Basketball is a fag sport full of sissies who are protected by fag referees. Time for this game to get back to the days when a guy leaving for a game hugs his family because he might not make it back alive.

Hey, John Thompson came out a few weeks ago and said Georgetown needs to get back to the days of thuggery. I like it. Basketball is a fag sport full of sissies who are protected by fag referees. Time for this game to get back to the days when a guy leaving for a game hugs his family because he might not make it back alive.

edit cuz I fucked up

We are down 2 at the half against Penn State thus far..........

- DeShawn Sims has played HORRIBLE and is making Zach Gibson look like an All-American.
- LLP literally can't buy a shot right now to save his life.
- Kelvin Grady hasn't seen the floor in the first half.
- Jevohn Sheperd has been HORRIBLE in his almost 4 years at Michigan and I really think I'm going to miss him. He is probably one of the best "dribble-drive" guys we have on our team and loves to dunk the ball with ferocity.......unfortunately he is the worst shooter in the U.S. or Canada.


- I heart Gus Johnson. Having him announce our game is quite possibly the only reason I am going to stick it out in the second half. I'm going to go on a limb and say Gus Johnson is a top 3 or 5 basketball announcer. (quote it bitches)

- I heart Gus Johnson. Having him announce our game is quite possibly the only reason I am going to stick it out in the second half. I'm going to go on a limb and say Gus Johnson is a top 3 or 5 basketball announcer. (quote it bitches)

Yeah, he needs to call more NBA games.

Also, I did.

Fortunately they blew up in the 2nd half for a 20 point blowout. (last win of the season?)

Fortunately they blew up in the 2nd half for a 20 point blowout. (last win of the season?)

Not so fast.

Huge game Vs. Purdue, tonite.

IMO, if they have to win this one if they want to get in.

Upseting Purdue would make them a lock, IMO.

I don't think it would make them a lock but they would at least be back in the discussion

Yeah, they definitely wouldn't be a lock.

One thing is for sure, Tom Izzo wouldn't lose to Purdue in this same situation.

One thing is for sure, Tom Izzo wouldn't lose to Purdue in this same situation.


I can agree with that.

Very few can prepare a team for battle like Thomas can.

I don't think it would make them a lock but they would at least be back in the discussion

I agree. They're still a bubble team. They need at least one more win, probably two (counting Big Ten tourney). 1 more in the regular season probably gets them in. Winning out would be lock status.

MOTIVATED.

I agree. They're still a bubble team. They need at least one more win, probably two (counting Big Ten tourney). 1 more in the regular season probably gets them in. Winning out would be lock status.

No shit Sherlock. Winning out would mean they'd be the Big Ten Tourney champs. Kind of an automatic NCAA berth last time I checked.

No shit Sherlock. Winning out would mean they'd be the Big Ten Tourney champs. Kind of an automatic NCAA berth last time I checked.
Hey dipshit, I meant winning out in the regular season (as in beating both Wisc and Minn) - not the B10 tourney.

This is disappointing

We were down 11(?), now 'we' are only down 4. 8mins left

Wow. Nice win.

Wow. Nice win.

Clutch and everything. Wasn't the team I saw so often this year. Enjoy it boys.

since the start of february, i think michigan has been playing its best ball of the season, despite only going 5-4. this win was awesome, and totally encapsulated the highs and lows of the season. we're definitly in, now its just a matter of not flaming out the first game.

this has been the most intense season of sports i've ever followed. it feels like we road the tip of the bubble all season and only got off it about 38 min into this game. i am stoked.

diddly:
I just can't see them getting in if they get doinked in the first game of the Big Ten tourney. 19-13 and 500 in this conference? I'll have to see it to believe it. I have believed all season they needed to go 10-8 in the Big Ten and get to 20 wins to make the Big Dance if they lose their first round game in the B10 tourney.

Great comeback.

didn't watch or really care, but now I'm pumped

diddly:
I just can't see them getting in if they get doinked in the first game of the Big Ten tourney. 19-13 and 500 in this conference? I'll have to see it to believe it. I have believed all season they needed to go 10-8 in the Big Ten and get to 20 wins to make the Big Dance if they lose their first round game in the B10 tourney.

well, i cant claim to be a bracket expert, but i did read that teams with 5 wins vs rpi 50 usually get in (maybe never didnt make it?) and this was our 6th win, i believe.

i think the arguments in favor are so compelling that 19 wins is enough. and consider the the unspoken tie breaker, michigan is big $$ and the powers that be would want them in over BFE state university. i think barring a nightmare big ten (not just losing, but injury to key player), we are in. if we lost to iowa, i suppose it would open the door to the nit, but i doubt even that.

didn't watch or really care, but now I'm pumped

You are not HALF the fan I am.

I'm heading out to the Wal-Marts in a few minutes to get a mesh-backed UM cap and maybe a new pair of Rustlers. The really dark ones.

Funny how you have to go out and buy that stuff, and I already have it and am already wearing it.

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/posse1/files/ben_face_paint.jpg

also, michigan will be a 6-7 seed in the btt, meaning we wont be seeing msu til the finals, i believe. the tourny is just an opportunity to boost our seeding, and avoiding rd matchup with msu is possible.

Funny thought of the day:

I think this team could go Sweet 16 if they don't get that "happy just to be here" feeling.

The NCAA Tourney is refereed (is that a word?) much differently than the Big Ten, where Australian Rules seem to be the way (unless a guy is thirty five feet from the basket and gets hand checked). The good shooting, quick, smaller teams seem to do pretty well in the early rounds (until talent cream rises to the top). AND, this team seems to play better against the better teams they go up against. They ARE going to need a third guy to step up like LLP did today, and hopefully that will happen. If they get in, it could be for more than just a cup of coffee.

they have the shooting but even the stiffest stiff dominates them in the middle (see mike tisdale, who's 6000 year old corpse bruce webber recruited out of egypt, i believe).

i think michigan's success will be entirely dependant on matchups.

really, minny was alot better today. i think at one point they scored 30 or so consecutive points in the paint, and it was usually 2 or 3 gophers fighting each other for a rebound (did we even get a rebound today?).

ill be shocked if we have the 'just happy to be here' game. we might have the 'oops i crapped my pants' game, which would reallllllly suck.

I'm really hoping we don't get a Big East game as that would put us at a little disadvantage as most coaches are still familiar with Coach Beilien's system. I have heard the possibility of a 7-10 WVU-Michigan game, but I dont think they'll be seeded that high nor will we. I'm thinking 'WE' might be either an 11 seed or a 12 seed and end up playing a team like Syracuse, Missouri or Arizona State. Now let's hope there is no 50 point loss in the BTT next week.

P.S. I believe they play at 2:30 on Thursday.

If we do make it in... It seems odd to think that UofM might be the cinderella story this year. They've beat some good teams. Who knows...

so.....yeah...Michigan is a mortal lock now.

I want to believe that, but Penn State and Minnesota winning worries me a little bit. Let's just beat Illinois tomorrow to be sure.

I'm also worried. Bubble teams all over the country are stepping up today. WVU, Oklahoma State, Baylor...

I think they're in. I just don't want there to be any chance of Michigan being on that "Biggest Snub" list on Monday. Beat Illinois. I still think they have a better resume than Minnesota and Penn State.

I think they're in. I just don't want there to be any chance of Michigan being on that "Biggest Snub" list on Monday. Beat Illinois. I still think they have a better resume than Minnesota and Penn State.

I still think they may not get in if they lose to Illinois because they aren't going up against Minnesota and PSU. They are going up against other teams. Remember, UM DID beat Duke and UCLA--and also lost to Duke and Maryland. They must win tomorrow so as to leave NO DOOBT. And I think they will by a score of 71-62.

I want to believe that, but Penn State and Minnesota winning worries me a little bit. Let's just beat Illinois tomorrow to be sure.
We had to beat minnesota just to be sure. Then we had to beat iowa just to be sure.

I've had enough. U-M is on. I'm not giving it a second thought.


I still think they may not get in if they lose to Illinois because they aren't going up against Minnesota and PSU.

They fucking swept minnesota and finished ahead of them in the big ten. They also throttled Penn State the last time they played them. What kind of stupid shit is that?

Your logic is fine, Kstat. But just realize that it's not ESPN, Fox Sports, MSN or Yahoo! Sports that's putting Michigan in the tournament - it's the tournament committee. Are they probably in? Yes. But I've seen the committee leave out bigger snubs. And there are a lot of bubble teams that are winning right now. So I would be surprised but not shocked if Michigan was kept out.

Let's just beat Illinois to be sure.

Why can't Michigan fans just be the tournament selection committtee?

http://media.expedia.com/media/content/expcorp/graphics/blog/monkey.jpg

So how much does going to the big Tourney help in recruiting? Assuming we go.

It depends on the program. Most of the kids Beilein is recruiting have some level of respect for him and see themselves as shooters and know he gives his kids complete green light to fire away. Obviously they don't want to do that while going sub .500, but many of them believe he has good X's and O's and will turn it around. The timeline he's done it in is earlier than many predicted this year (again, assuming), but most recruits probably felt he would have it turned around by the time they got on campus.

It kills some of the potential negative recruiting about the program, but I don't get the idea that's a huge deal. The whole "they haven't been there in 11 years" thing would die.

My impression is that the biggest things hurting UM recruiting right now is that great athletes feel its not the place for them because it focuses on shooters instead of athletes, but even bigger is the facilities. I know for a fact Beilein and Borseth have been talking about the practice facility coming for a while now, making promises to kids in the 09 class before the Board of Regents passed anything. That will help, but Martin better get some more plans on the table for Crisler itself soon, besides just lights and sound. The place still feels like a dungeon.

Thx

When do they sign? Or has this falls class already signed?

I don't buy that you can negatively recruit against Beilien's philosophy.

Manny Harris and Deshawn Sims are two highly skilled players at totally different positions, and both if anything have been ENHANCED by this system, with all the 3-point shooters to spread the floor.

This fall's class has already signed, for the most part. Hoops has an early signing period, and 90% of the players have done so because of that. UM will bring in 4 players -
Darius Morris - 4 star PG from LA. 6'4" bringing size to the position
Matt Vogrich - whitey from Indiana. 6'4" SG, called the best shooter in the class by the Sporting News
Jordan Morgan - 6'8" PF from UD Jesuit. Not great but the same size as Sims. Maybe now we'll be able to have two bigs in at the same time. I swear that kills us so often.
Blake McLimans - 6'10" SF. Skinny shooter from Buffalo, finished HS and went to prep school not because of grades, but to have an in-between level of competition. Size at that position will be interesting.

All are 3 stars except Morris, who is 3 star accodring to scout but 4 star in rivals. There is also Cronin coming off a redshirt year. He's 7'0" and big. We'll have a walk-on in Eso Akunne from Ann Arbor. 6'3" scrappy thick guard.

It depends on the program. Most of the kids Beilein is recruiting have some level of respect for him and see themselves as shooters and know he gives his kids complete green light to fire away. Obviously they don't want to do that while going sub .500, but many of them believe he has good X's and O's and will turn it around. The timeline he's done it in is earlier than many predicted this year (again, assuming), but most recruits probably felt he would have it turned around by the time they got on campus.

It kills some of the potential negative recruiting about the program, but I don't get the idea that's a huge deal. The whole "they haven't been there in 11 years" thing would die.

My impression is that the biggest things hurting UM recruiting right now is that great athletes feel its not the place for them because it focuses on shooters instead of athletes, but even bigger is the facilities. I know for a fact Beilein and Borseth have been talking about the practice facility coming for a while now, making promises to kids in the 09 class before the Board of Regents passed anything. That will help, but Martin better get some more plans on the table for Crisler itself soon, besides just lights and sound. The place still feels like a dungeon.

i think making the tourney has to be pretty big.

1) if a program gets sanctioned and barred from the tourney, that kills recruiting... i think i read about some school somewhere where this happened i think. anyway, i think the inverse has to be good (maybe not as good as sanctions are bad). kids go to schools to play in the ncaa's. making it is like a big fat endorsement.

2) making it is exposure. you see in football the toledos of the world doing anything to get on national tv, playing in alaska on a wedensday morning in july. it helps.

this stuff is obviously secondary to the stuff the recruiters actually do in the trenches. im pretty sure recruits arent like "oh, the michigan i saw on tv? im in!", butyou never know the psychology behind a decision. if recruits pick michigan because they like the colors, or that we beat osu 150 years ago, i dont see why this might not sway someone either.

2) making it is exposure. you see in football the toledos of the world doing anything to get on national tv, playing in alaska on a wedensday morning in july. it helps.

Ahem.

Thanks. That seems like a pretty well rounded crop to bring in.

Add those guys with Sims and Manny getting another year under their belt and who knows...

I just checked the roster and Merritt and Lee are gone. I liked those 2. Novak has some cajones, imo. Looking forward to it.

I believe Jevohn Sheppard is gone too.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Anthony Wright or Kelvin Grady decided to transfer.

^ Yes. I liked Douglas over the last 2 days. He likes the outside shot, afaict.

Making the Big Dance is a Big Deal. Success breeds success. Not many people focus too much attention on the regular season, but March Madness brings in everyone to watch, especially recroots.

One thing that has hurt UM over the years, though, was the recruiting shift that Tom Goss initiated while he was GM. Bill Frieder spoke about it in his recent interview on Scout with Sam Webb. After the Fab Five left, Goss said UM wouldn't be going after those "types" of players anymore. He thought UM could be the next Duke. Frieder said Goss handed the state of Michigan over to The Izzo, and thus, the doom was sealed. UM also doesn't play the AAU game. It's shady, and many NCAA coaches are in cahoots with AAU coaches who funnel players to programs, and well, there may be some nefarious practices involved. Here is an article about Maryland coach Gary Williams, who doesn't play the AAU game, either:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/12/AR2009021202299.html

I also think there was a conscious effort to avoid the Carmelo Anthony's and Michael Beasley's of the world: the "One and Done" players, and even players who even gave a hint that they'd just like to use college ball as nothing more than a stepping stone to NBA $$ as opposed to grasping the whole student-athlete concept.

Belein was brought in, IMO, as a guy who recruits under the radar, and is a good X and O guy; a teacher, as well as a guy with integrity. Gonna be a real uphill battle, and unless it's Michigan kids, UM probably won't be landing many big names.

And yeah, what Jethro said: Crisler Arena is a dump, and the other basketball facilities are among the worst, if not the worst, in the Big Ten.

DouglASS, Tahoe.

Making the Big Dance is a Big Deal. Success breeds success. Not many people focus too much attention on the regular season, but March Madness brings in everyone to watch, especially recroots.

One thing that has hurt UM over the years, though, was the recruiting shift that Tom Goss initiated while he was GM. Bill Frieder spoke about it in his recent interview on Scout with Sam Webb. After the Fab Five left, Goss said UM wouldn't be going after those "types" of players anymore. He thought UM could be the next Duke. Frieder said Goss handed the state of Michigan over to The Izzo, and thus, the doom was sealed. UM also doesn't play the AAU game. It's shady, and many NCAA coaches are in cahoots with AAU coaches who funnel players to programs, and well, there may be some nefarious practices involved. Here is an article about Maryland coach Gary Williams, who doesn't play the AAU game, either:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/12/AR2009021202299.html

I also think there was a conscious effort to avoid the Carmelo Anthony's and Michael Beasley's of the world: the "One and Done" players, and even players who even gave a hint that they'd just like to use college ball as nothing more than a stepping stone to NBA $$ as opposed to grasping the whole student-athlete concept.

Belein was brought in, IMO, as a guy who recruits under the radar, and is a good X and O guy; a teacher, as well as a guy with integrity. Gonna be a real uphill battle, and unless it's Michigan kids, UM probably won't be landing many big names.

And yeah, what Jethro said: Crisler Arena is a dump, and the other basketball facilities are among the worst, if not the worst, in the Big Ten.

So I'm not alone?

Also, good post Zip

Thanks Tahoe, back at ya.

I believe Jevohn Sheppard is gone too.

And I also wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Anthony Wright or Kelvin Grady decided to transfer.

A Spartan fan I play ball with told me the other night he heard rumblings about Grady transferring to Grand Valley. That was Tuesday. I've searched for that rumor every day and found nothing.

Anthony Wright can go. No one needs him. I think with Merritt and Lee leaving Grady immediately gets more PT, even though the top recruit coming in is a PG. Grady has the potential to be a leader, though I think he's clearly been passed by in Beilein's book by Douglass.

So if 'we' would see a couple of better recruits, it'd be next year?

I'm motivated.

So if 'we' would see a couple of better recruits, it'd be next year?

There are some 4 star guys on the radar for the class of 2010. Some are even saying all the right things, but I'm still skeptical.

GOING TO THE BIG DANCE!

Mr Bukdow, you owe me one. You too Tahoe:

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