Toledo's 1-4, lone win coming Vs. Eastern Mich.

I don't care how they hung around with Fresno State. There's no excuse to drop this game.

Could be a replay of the Miami (OH) game...

Martavious Odoms, UM's leading reciever, is out Saturday with soreness...

^ There goes the KR game.^

Martavious Odoms, UM's leading reciever, is out Saturday with soreness...

Any word on Terrence Robinson who will be redshirted if he isn't available this week? Any word on Darryl Stonum who I believe was suspended or had some issues to deal with?

T-Rob isn't playing either.

Stonum's status is up in the air. Nobody knows exactly what it was he was disciplined for, but we'll know how major/minor it was if he suits up this week.

I imagine he's no longer a starter though...

For all the talk of Barwis "pre-hab" for injury prevention, it sure doesn't seem to be kicking in just yet.

Terrence Robinson's injury is a strange one. It seems like each week he's capable of going, but he never ends up suiting up...

At this point, just RS him, if McNeal decommitts, it won't hurt having T-Rob to fill his 4 yrs of eligibility...

Odoms, I guess is just 'nicked up'.

UM should win this game. However, if the Toledo team that played Fresno State close shows up and UM continues the bone-headed play, it could be a struggle for UM.

Considering the whooping UM took last week, I think they will come ready to play and jump on Toledo quick with the help of the home crowd. UM 30 Toledo 17.

I wonder if we'll see a heavy does of Minor this weeked:


Toledo averages only 255 pounds up front and is allowing opposing QBs to complete 66 percent of their passes.

I wonder if we'll see a heavy does of Minor this weeked:


Not if he keeps putting the ball on the ground.


Carlos Brown has been getting the shaft. He was Hart's backup last year (and had some big games @ Illinois & Vs. Minnesota). I'd like to see him get some touches.

Shaw also did decent last week in the 4 touches he got...

At some point, McGuffie needs to be sharing the reps.

Not if he keeps putting the ball on the ground.


Carlos Brown has been getting the shaft. He was Hart's backup last year (and had some big games @ Illinois & Vs. Minnesota). I'd like to see him get some touches.

Shaw also did decent last week in the 4 touches he got...

At some point, McGuffie needs to be sharing the reps.
At this point, I don`t believe McGuffie can take the punishment of a feature back. He is just too small. Therefore, as you say, someone else needs to get in the mix.

At this point, I don`t believe McGuffie can take the punishment of a feature back. He is just too small. Therefore, as you say, someone else needs to get in the mix.


I think McGuffie would be better suited running between the tackles instead of outside them. If he can get a fullback or some blockers ahead of him, it'd make up for his feather-weight size.

Speed can't help you when you have no blockers. That's why Owen Schmitt was such a huge part of Slaton & White being productive in WV's run game...

Yeah, I think he's better at slashing between tackles because he makes quick cuts and the LBs don't have enough time to react if they aren't in the right hole. But it's also good to have a change of pace back to pitch in a few carries with him.

This, even though it's tied, is actually worse than the blowout loss against Illinois. I didn't know it could get worse.

We need those 09 QB's so freaking bad. A couple DB's that can cover against stacked slant routes and an OL or two would be nice as well. Add to that a team set of extra-tack gloves and next years team might make it to the Motor City Bowl.

You've got to be fucking kidding me!

A walk-on QB sets up a walk-on kicker for a chance at overtime and we blow it. Things are going well and I echo Jethro's statement of hoping next year can get a little better, but I'm not even sure if ALL those guys can really help this team in the future.

I wonder how many de-commitments will come from this weekend's debacle?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOL

Why is Sheridan even on the field (obviously the game was not on out here)? That guy is terrible. He now has 1 TD and 5 INTs on the year.

And so much for my idea of running Minor a lot. 0 fucking carries?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOL

Well, this is nothing new (losing to inferior opponents).

2-10 is inevitable.

I'm actually glad he missed. They didn't deserve to have a chance to win in OT.

I'm actually glad he missed. They didn't deserve to have a chance to win in OT.

I was thinking the same thing, losing in OT would've been worse...

This season just needs to end.

It's just the difference between 2 - 10 and 3 - 9. That's all. I'm not even that upset about it.

If Threet or Sheridan is starting next season, we're in big trouble. Michigan has the worst QB situation in Division 1-A.

Ya'll are smoking crack being ok with this. Rodriguez has taken Flip Saunders place on my "hurry up and leave the state of Michigan" list. I dont believe we are this damn bad and if he doesnt have the personnel to run the spread, Be a damn coach and run a pro set til you do. All it really tells me is that he is even more one dimensional than Loyd Carr ever was. Gameplan? Spread. Next week? Spread. Get the fuck outta here with this cheesey gimmicky garbage. Our problem under Carr was stopping the spread, so we adopt it as a counter? No, you adopt a defense to stop it. I might need to adopt LSU on the side until UofM fires Rich(they have the coach we should have :( )

Ya'll are smoking crack being ok with this. Rodriguez has taken Flip Saunders place on my "hurry up and leave the state of Michigan" list. I dont believe we are this damn bad and if he doesnt have the personnel to run the spread, Be a damn coach and run a pro set til you do. All it really tells me is that he is even more one dimensional than Loyd Carr ever was. Gameplan? Spread. Next week? Spread. Get the fuck outta here with this cheesey gimmicky garbage. Our problem under Carr was stopping the spread, so we adopt it as a counter? No, you adopt a defense to stop it. I might need to adopt LSU on the side until UofM fires Rich(they have the coach we should have :( )

Threet and Sheridan would suck just as bad in a pro style offense.

Threet and Sheridan would suck just as bad in a pro style offense.
I think Threet could run a pro style offense. Again this is far from that and the real problem is that neither guy is a WR posing as a QB, which is the type of garbage Rich needs for his one dimensional gimmick. IMO Rich is has failed to impress me with his lack of adapting to his current roster as a coach.

Go look up RR's record his first year in WVA.

He'll be fine, this is all transition.

Go look up RR's record his first year in WVA..
Go look up their recruiting quality vs ours that he inherited.

I'll stick to calling it what it is, one dimensional gimmick ball. Bo may be turning over sideways in his grave at this era. :(

Go look up their recruiting quality vs ours that he inherited.

I'll stick to calling it what it is, one dimensional gimmick ball. Bo may be turning over sideways in his grave at this era. :(


Maybe our recruiting was not as good the past few years as everyone seems to think it was. Look at our RB's, Minor and Brown both 4-star, they both underachieve. We can say Minor just needs more carries, but he's a fumble waiting to happen. Grady, a 5-star, BIG-TIME underachiever, there were some around East Grand Rapids that knew he was not that great. Our OL is non-existent, where are the solid vets. Look at the LB core, they are horrible, except for Ezeh(sp). Threet would still overthrow open WR's in ANY offensive system, Sheridan....who cares, he's dog shit.

UM will be back and RR will lead them there, no doubt.

Maybe our recruiting was not as good the past few years as everyone seems to think it was. Look at our RB's, Minor and Brown both 4-star, they both underachieve. We can say Minor just needs more carries, but he's a fumble waiting to happen. Grady, a 5-star, BIG-TIME underachiever, there were some around East Grand Rapids that knew he was not that great. Our OL is non-existent, where are the solid vets. Look at the LB core, they are horrible, except for Ezeh(sp). Threet would still overthrow open WR's in ANY offensive system, Sheridan....who cares, he's dog shit.
I respectfully disagree. I think all these supposed underachievers do better in a pro set. Also I think Threet does not overthrow anybody with a meat and potatoes running game backing him up. Some of it is the pressure on Threet from doing so much running and throwing.

Again I think the scheme is a factor and Rich has no ability to at least adapt his scheme somewhat for the players he has.



UM will be back and RR will lead them there, no doubt.
I'll pass on that kool aid.

Grady was in a pro set. Can't hold onto the fucking ball. Tiki should open a school somewhere for these kids.

If it is that I'm sipping the kool aid than I'll gladly admit it when it comes time, but I'm going to give the man a couple seasons before my confidence disappears.

Codename you just don't like the spread itself right? I can' say I like it all that much either, MSU's offense is more to my liking. Though Dantonio in the same way can't seem to adapt, there are time he should use 4 WR and he refuses. I admit I like coaches that can use different styles in the same game, like Miles at LSU.

I never said I was ok with this. I about beat down a 6 year old in my neighborhood just to prove inferior opponents could be beaten.

Transition year or not, there is zero excuse for losing to Toledo and barely beating Miami OH. There is zero excuse for allowing Juice Williams to break Big House records. There is zero excuse for allowing Nick Moore to catch the ball 20 times. The defense has lost heart the past two weeks and that's the one thing that should have decided many games.
The offense sucks, and I do understand that. They seriously brought back three starters, that's it. A lineman, a fullback - who isn't used on more than half of the offensive plays, and a TE who is completely lost on the depth chart most likely for some bonehead decision he made. So basically 10 new starters, with three of them being true freshmen that this coach recruited. Everyone else is simply something else. Far more talented than most players at a MAC school making games like yesterday inexcusable, but not fits for what is happening here.

So what would you suggest Rod do? Implement a different system from what he'll run next year? Meaning all of the returning players after this year will have to relearn yet one more thing? Meaning that recruits don't get to at least see the type of game UM would play if they had the right players? No, I think you take a shitty year and at least let it be a learning opportunity for the guys that will be around - and with only 15 seniors on the roster that will be a lot.
I really wish I could say that next year will be great, but I can't. While the experience level and understanding of the system should be night and day, we'll still have a freshman QB. Regardless of which freshman QB starts he'll immediately be better than anyone that was on the field yesterday, but it would be a mistake to assume he'll come in and have the impact Sam Bradford or Tim Tebow had as freshmen. We'll be in a bowl game and we'll be competitive, but I would happily take 8 wins next year. It will be a huge turnaround. But I want a BCS game the following season after that.

I think if we would just run the types of plays we ran last year in the Bowl game Vs. Florida, we would've been fine...

In that game, Henne was in the gun 90% of the time. Manningham, Arrington, Butler & Mathews we're all able to get a fair share of targets (I think all 4 had at least 60 yds receiving). Hart rushed for 100+ running mainly w/o a fullback which he was used to. It was more of a 'pass happy' style of spread, but was effective, efficient, and lead to a win.

That's not the type of ball Rich Rod plays though, he's a run first guy...even though Threet is a pass first QB.

He's too stubborn to adapt his offense to his personnel. Which is unfortunate, because I think if he did, we'd be 5-1 or 4-2 right now.

Wow...just wow. I think this the lowest point in my career as a Michigan fan. Sure, the App. St. loss was bad, but at they were 2 time defending National Champions with a spread offense that Michigan has never been able to figure out and speed, speed, speed. Definitely an inexcusable loss, but I think the loss to Toledo is worse.

Toledo was 1-4, had lost 3 consecutive games and was shut out by Ball St. 31-0 last week. Their defense was ranked 110th in the country and was giving up 35.8 points per game to mostly MAC schools, and Michigan scores 10 and loses. Toledo ranked 123rd in the Sagarin ratings, behind 18 I-AA teams, and yet beat Michigan in the Big House. Inexcusable.

Sure, I expected a rough year due to the transition, but this is absolutely disgusting. We still have high school All-Americans all over the field and are getting dominated by inferior opponents. Sure, we don't have a legitimate D-1 QB on the roster, and the O-line looks like they're playing against the 2000 Ravens each week, but some of this falls on the coaches. OK, I know there has been a lot of talk about running a more traditional "pro style" offense this year, because of the type of players we have, but I don't think that is the answer either. We still need to run the spread, but let's not throw quick little bubble screens where our slow-ass linemen need to sprint downfield and block a CB. Let's not run the zone read out of the shotgun all day long because the line gets no push and the D doesn't need to respect "Threet to run". Line up in the I more often with Moundros in front of McGuffie and the extra blocker will help a bit. And I don't even know where to start with the defense. STILL CAN NOT STOP THE SPREAD! Every other team in the country seems to be at least able to slow down the spread, but Michigan still cannot even with a coach who designed it and going against it in practice every single day. How can you let a MAC WR get 20 catches. Terrible coaching.

On another note, RR is putting up quite a few records in his first year, but most are not in a good way.

Good
Biggest comeback (19 points) in Big House history vs. Wisconsin

Bad
Most yardage ever allowed to one player in Michigan Stadium history (Juice Williams)
Most points allowed (45 to Illinois) at Michigan Stadium since 1991 vs. Florida St.
First ever loss to a MAC school in Michigan history (Toledo)
Longest interception return for an opponent in Michigan history (Tyrrell Herbert, Toledo, 100 yds)
Most receptions for a Michigan opponent (20, Nick Moore, Toledo)
The Wolverines (2-4) have their worst six-game record since 1967.
The ending of the 33 year bowl streak looks inevitable.
First losing season since 1967 also looks inevitable.

Not exactly getting off on the right foot, Rich Rod. But I'm not calling for his head. I think the future is very, very bright. But things are at an all time low right now.

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/b1e8b1af-d15b-437a-a4dc-e5d3bcf833ac.jpg

I think if we would just run the types of plays we ran last year in the Bowl game Vs. Florida, we would've been fine...

In that game, Henne was in the gun 90% of the time. Manningham, Arrington, Butler & Mathews we're all able to get a fair share of targets (I think all 4 had at least 60 yds receiving). Hart rushed for 100+ running mainly w/o a fullback which he was used to. It was more of a 'pass happy' style of spread, but was effective, efficient, and lead to a win.

That's not the type of ball Rich Rod plays though, he's a run first guy...even though Threet is a pass first QB.

He's too stubborn to adapt his offense to his personnel. Which is unfortunate, because I think if he did, we'd be 5-1 or 4-2 right now.

You think Threet compared to a 4 year starter and Arrington and Manningham compared to - what - Stonum, Hemingway? - could really produce the same? That's reaching.

I believe that if Threet's arm was that great they would throw more, but since Threet can barely complete 50% of his passes and only got more accurate when they cut out (for the most part) the deeper ball, there's no way we would have had anything close to the success that UM had in that bowl game. Even if everything else was the same, how would you account for the time Henne had to throw behind a veteran line? It was much easier for a FB to block for Hart when Kraus and Long were limiting the guys he had to block. When McGuffie gets stopped behind the line, it's usually by 3 or more guys.

You think Threet compared to a 4 year starter and Arrington and Manningham compared to - what - Stonum, Hemingway? - could really produce the same?



No, but that formation of the spread would be much more suited to Threet's game.

Instead of just having Mathews and Odoms to throw to, give him 4 WR's and a TE so he can find open men rather than picking who he's going to throw to before the ball's even snaped.

Rich Rod has used a pass-dominate spread before when he had Shaun King in Tulane. Threet's strength is his arm, and since he's far more athletic than Shaun King is, it could produce even better results.

I didn't see the toledo game because i don't have btn, but i have to guess they played abysmally to lose to such a crap team. I think rr's record at wvu speaks for itself, and he definitely needs at least 3 years for proper judgement. The last two ncaa champs played either full time or part time out of the spread, so i find it hard to believe it wouldn't work at u-m.

i don't really understand rr's handling of the qb situation. It is not like he has 2 great qbs that both deserve time. He has 2 crappy qbs. I also don't really understand the belief of some of you that threet is some awesome qb that would flourish if allowed to pass more. From what I have seen, he seems to run hot and cold. He might drive down the field with relative ease on one drive and miss targets by 10 yards on the next. He is what he is. Maybe he would improve over his career, but i doubt he'll change much this year. Nonetheless, rr needs to pick a qb and stick with him. Threet only seems to get worse when rotated. sheridan scored all of zero points against fucking toledo. when threet is going through one of his ineffectual periods, just ride it out and hope that he has one of his better spells. I assume that rr doesn't like threet's work ethic because sheridan is just awful.

Anyways, we are heading for the perfect storm of conditions leading to a humiliating loss next week- a great team, an athletic qb, that team is looking for revenge after a decade of losses, a road game, a shit u-m team with no confidence. i predict a 70-1 game, in which the one point is a fantastical notion to avoid a shutout. Nonetheless, the only game that I look forward to watching is msu since there is always a chance in a home rivalry game. otherwise, this season just seems like the logical conclusion to last season's 0-2 start.

Unrelated note: i would rather have some walk-on kick fgs than fucking lopata. If i recall correctly, he had the two kicks blocked against appy state and now the miss. I suppose the second asu block would have happened vs. most kickers, but he kicked the first asu attempt too low and choked vs. toledo. i'd rather avoid kicking any more fgs altogether or just grab some soccer player than sit through another lopata kick.

Unbelievable. I agree, this is worse than the loss to Appalachian State. Toledo is a bad team team. But here is the difference between Toledo and UM, Toledo has balls. UM plays like a bunch of sissies. No tackling, no blocking, the secondary can`t defend because they have their purses in their other hand. The offense is, well, horrible.

UM is looking like a bunch of fools and losing a great deal of respect and "street cred". If UM loses out this season, the ramifications on recruiting and building doubts regarding RR will become huge.

Remember when many of you blue and yellow wannabes were yammering about 7 or 8 wins? Hell, I think the ultimate blue and yellow fool, Willy, even predicted 9 wins! You guys better hold onto your shorts because this could make the mortgage meltdown look like a bag of malted milk balls.

Remember when many of you blue and yellow wannabes were yammering about 7 or 8 wins? Hell, I think the ultimate blue and yellow fool, Willy, even predicted 9 wins! You guys better hold onto your shorts because this could make the mortgage meltdown look like a bag of malted milk balls.

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12783

Wil said 8 and you said 7.

GD'Owned

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12783

Wil said 8 and you said 7.
Fair enough. I think the magnitude of UM`s tank-job has kind of caught everyone by surprise.

I thought 7. I knew it was going to be a rough year, but I had no idea RR was incapable of adapting.

Ya'll are smoking crack being ok with this. Rodriguez has taken Flip Saunders place on my "hurry up and leave the state of Michigan" list. I dont believe we are this damn bad and if he doesnt have the personnel to run the spread, Be a damn coach and run a pro set til you do. All it really tells me is that he is even more one dimensional than Loyd Carr ever was. Gameplan? Spread. Next week? Spread. Get the fuck outta here with this cheesey gimmicky garbage. Our problem under Carr was stopping the spread, so we adopt it as a counter? No, you adopt a defense to stop it. I might need to adopt LSU on the side until UofM fires Rich(they have the coach we should have :( )

Zip's gonna put a Goshboot in your ass.

This isn't worse than the Appalachian State loss, you know why?

Nobody's talking about it anymore.

End of story.

This isn't worse than the Appalachian State loss, you know why?

Nobody's talking about it anymore.

End of story.

some would say it is worse because no one is talking about it any more.

Unbelievable. I agree, this is worse than the loss to Appalachian State. Toledo is a bad team team. But here is the difference between Toledo and UM, Toledo has balls. UM plays like a bunch of sissies. No tackling, no blocking, the secondary can`t defend because they have their purses in their other hand. The offense is, well, horrible.

UM is looking like a bunch of fools and losing a great deal of respect and "street cred". If UM loses out this season, the ramifications on recruiting and building doubts regarding RR will become huge.

Remember when many of you blue and yellow wannabes were yammering about 7 or 8 wins? Hell, I think the ultimate blue and yellow fool, Willy, even predicted 9 wins! You guys better hold onto your shorts because this could make the mortgage meltdown look like a bag of malted milk balls.

of course it is only possible for sparty to come back from 2-10 seasons. no other university has the intestinal fortitude. that said, i think they pull off 2 more wins this season to finish a terribly embarassing 4-8 rather than a humiliating 2-10.