This seems to exist as an overtone in more than one thread, so it's probably worthy of its own, with regular updates after each game.

I have no doubt that, if he stays healthy, Ringer can put up one of the most statistically impressive seasons in recent memory.

He has freakish ability. We've seen that for some time. With the absence of Caulcrick as the power back (meaning more carries and more TDs) and the problematic passing difficulties (also meaning more carries and more TDs) it seems the numbers we've seen the past few weeks should continue.

But there are some problems. As those carries pile up, can anyone be sure that Ringer can avoid a devastating injury? Also, how long until teams come into the game flooding the line and forcing State to try to win through the air? And finally, Heisman is very often linked to best player on a top team. How many games does State have to win to keep his name in TRUE contention. We all know that backs (see Wolfe, Northern Illinois) that can pile up stats and get a mention but are never taken very seriously by the voters.

I think, outside of health, the biggest obstacle in Ringers way is the fact that above average statistical seasons from Tebow, Bradford, and Sanchez trump Ringer's accomplishments in the eyes of the people that get to vote. Not to mention Max Hall, who will likely hold passing records on an undefeated team at the end of the season, in spite of sitting the entire 4th and most of the 3rd in many games.

A healthy Ringer, imo, puts up the numbers and wins the Doak Walker, but gets denied the Heisman.

Short answer: No, Javon Ringer can't win the Heisman.


Chase Daniel, Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez, Knowshon Moreno, Sam Bradford, Graham Harrell...all have better shots

One bad game will kill Ringer since he plays for a school nobody cares about nationally. Let's see what he does Vs. Ohio St & Wisconsin first.

Just so tough to win as a back, or on an average team. Can't see him overcoming both.

This seems to exist as an overtone in more than one thread, so it's probably worthy of its own, with regular updates after each game.

I have no doubt that, if he stays healthy, Ringer can put up one of the most statistically impressive seasons in recent memory.

He has freakish ability. We've seen that for some time. With the absence of Caulcrick as the power back (meaning more carries and more TDs) and the problematic passing difficulties (also meaning more carries and more TDs) it seems the numbers we've seen the past few weeks should continue.

But there are some problems. As those carries pile up, can anyone be sure that Ringer can avoid a devastating injury? Also, how long until teams come into the game flooding the line and forcing State to try to win through the air? And finally, Heisman is very often linked to best player on a top team. How many games does State have to win to keep his name in TRUE contention. We all know that backs (see Wolfe, Northern Illinois) that can pile up stats and get a mention but are never taken very seriously by the voters.

I think, outside of health, the biggest obstacle in Ringers way is the fact that above average statistical seasons from Tebow, Bradford, and Sanchez trump Ringer's accomplishments in the eyes of the people that get to vote. Not to mention Max Hall, who will likely hold passing records on an undefeated team at the end of the season, in spite of sitting the entire 4th and most of the 3rd in many games.

A healthy Ringer, imo, puts up the numbers and wins the Doak Walker, but gets denied the Heisman.
Ypur post makes many good points and echoes many of the same feelings I have on the subject.

My original intent in commenting on Ringer`s Heisman hopes was to smack the little punk Wilfredo upside his head. The kid is such a little douche-bag. I can certainly see him being a toilet-stall-foot-wanderer in an attempt to raise his career aspirations beyond that of Ackownting Department Sperm Bag.

Anyway, for Ringer to have a serious chance at the Heisman, MSU would have to go undefeated from here on out and win their BCS bowl. However, your comment about the possibilities of the Doak Walker definitely seems a possibility.

no

My original intent in commenting on Ringer`s Heisman hopes was to smack the little punk Wilfredo upside his head. .


I'm curious as to how you were going to pull that off.

I can certainly see him being a toilet-stall-foot-wanderer in an attempt to raise his career aspirations beyond that of Ackownting Department Sperm Bag.



lmao

You know the typical "same old Michigan State" loss is coming. Indiana or Northwestern, and his campaign goes bye bye. The Michigan game is a toss up, but they will lose to Wisconsin, OSU, and PSU. That's 5, maybe 6 losses. Can't win a Heisman on a team like that.

You know the typical "same old Michigan State" loss is coming. Indiana or Northwestern, and his campaign goes bye bye. The Michigan game is a toss up, but they will lose to Wisconsin, OSU, and PSU. That's 5, maybe 6 losses. Can't win a Heisman on a team like that.
Want to make a bet?

You know the typical "same old Michigan State" loss is coming. Indiana or Northwestern, and his campaign goes bye bye.


:cogent:

Although I wouldn't call what he has right now a "campaign", he hasn't exactly played a good team yet. And the one he did play, he was held under 100 yds and State gagged.

I thought he had nearly 200 yards against Cal??
I'm not going to take the bet that MSU will lose 5 or 6 games this year. All you got to do is look at some of the games last year to see that Dantonio has them in a completely different mindset.
Ringer would need 2000 yards to get a Heisman. You get that, and it's almost, if not a certain, given. Tebow is obviously the way out front runner, but you never know in the SEC. I think Ringer, unless the Sparties get themselves into a few routs and he can be rested, will hit that 2000 mark barring injury.

I thought he had nearly 200 yards against Cal??
I'm not going to take the bet that MSU will lose 5 or 6 games this year. All you got to do is look at some of the games last year to see that Dantonio has them in a completely different mindset.
Ringer would need 2000 yards to get a Heisman. You get that, and it's almost, if not a certain, given. Tebow is obviously the way out front runner, but you never know in the SEC. I think Ringer, unless the Sparties get themselves into a few routs and he can be rested, will hit that 2000 mark barring injury.

He had 81 yards on 27 carries. He did score twice.

Also, there is still some uncertainty as to whether or not Cal is a "real" team.

2,000 yards used to guarantee you a Heisman. It hasn't guaranteed it in a while, though. I believe there have been multiple 2,000 yard rushers since Ron Dayne that weren't even top 3 finalists. Troy Davis even went over 2,000 yards in consecutive seasons - but finished 5th and 2nd those two seasons. A certain LT did it in 2000 (over 2,100 yards with 22 TDs - over 2,500 yards including receiving) and came in 4th.

They'd have to win the big ten for him to have a real shot.

look at how many carries Ringer is getting, I mean good God, he's basically this year's version of Kevin Smith...

Kev Smith had over 2500+ rush yds last year, but didn't even get a sniff of the Heisman...

The Heisman is a beauty pageant which is why Peyton Manning never won it.
Charles Woodson is a beautiful man. /Anderson Cooper

look at how many carries Ringer is getting, I mean good God, he's basically this year's version of Kevin Smith...

Kev Smith had over 2500+ rush yds last year, but didn't even get a sniff of the Heisman...
Kevin Smith did not play in one of the power conferences, nor did his team go to a BCS bowl. If MSU wins at least 9 games and goes to, and wins, a BCS bowl, Ringer will be invited to New York. For him to win, he would have to rush for over 2000 yards and MSU would have to go undefeated from here on out.

I believe Ringer has around 150 carries and 700 yards. Since numbers aren`t your area of strength let me do the math for you, thats 4.7 yards per carry. A very respectable average.

I think MSU beats Michigan this year, but I cannot see them getting into a BCS Bowl. For them to go to a BCS game, they would have to finish first or second in the Big 10. Can you really see that happening?

I think MSU beats Michigan this year, but I cannot see them getting into a BCS Bowl. For them to go to a BCS game, they would have to finish first or second in the Big 10. Can you really see that happening?

I wouldn't say that it is impossible.

The Big 10 is horrible, even moreso than it typically is.

Somebody's got to finish 2nd.

As horrible as it is, Penn State, Ohio State and Wisconsin all seem to be in front of the Spartans. MSU has to beat at least one of them and not slip up against any of the lesser teams.

Want to make a bet?

Yes.

Ringer not a factor in first Heisman poll
The Detroit News

Michigan State running back Javon Ringer received just one vote, for fifth-place, in the first Scripps Howard Heisman Trophy poll of the season.

Ringer, third in the nation in rushing yards per game (234.0), was far behind poll leader Chase Daniel, the Missiouri quarterback who earned seven first-place votes and 41 points in the poll conducted by the Rocky Mountain News in Denver.

The Scripps Howard Heisman poll is in its 22nd year. The final poll taken in December has correctly predicted the Heisman winner in 18 of 21 seasons.

Ten voters vote for five players each week. The tabulations are made on a 5-4-3-2-1 basis, with five points for a first-place vote, four points for second, etc.

The top five in the poll:

1. QB Chase Daniel, Missouri

2. QB Sam Bradford, Oklahoma

3. QB Tim Tebow, Florida

4. QB Mark Sanchez, USC

5. RB Knowshon Moreno, Georgia

Apparently the voters don't see it happening. For him to have a chance, the players in front of him will have to have some very bad games, because frankly I'm not sure how Ringer could have better games than what he already has had.

No, Javon Ringer cannot win a Heisman.

By the way, if it were me I would have Chase Daniel as the crystal clear #1. His numbers are sick. Bradford would be 2nd. Then I would have Ringer 3rd. Colt McCoy would be 4, Max Hall 5, Knowshon Moreno 6, Sanchez 7, and Tebow 8.
I personally think Tebow and Sanchez are there because of their teams' accomplishments (which have more to do with defense) than their own. I would even probably give Otis Wiley some love at this point.

But it's a long season. There will be some strong changes over the next few weeks. (USC v Oregon, Texas v Oklahoma, Florida v LSU, Georgia v Alabama, Missouri v Nebraska, MSU v Iowa).

USC v Oregon, Texas v Oklahoma, Florida v LSU, Georgia v Alabama, Missouri v Nebraska, MSU v Iowa


Which of these things is not like the other?

I put it in there because it's the best defense Ringer will have faced so far, and because both teams have records that may be convincing some that they are good, while others are assuming it's the same old thing just waiting for the implosion.

Yes.
Alright. What are the stakes? Do you want to bet on 5 or 6 losses? I suggest we get this wrapped up before this weekend.

I say, according to your parameters, we bet on 6 losses and the loser must have an avatar that positively reflects rthe opposing school for one year. What do you say?

have an avatar that positively reflects rthe opposing school for one year.

lol lol lol lol

lol lol lol lol

Ringer is the 32nd best prospect on draft rankings right now FYI.

No.

Alright. What are the stakes? Do you want to bet on 5 or 6 losses? I suggest we get this wrapped up before this weekend.

I say, according to your parameters, we bet on 6 losses and the loser must have an avatar that positively reflects rthe opposing school for one year. What do you say?

5 losses and you've got a deal.

5 losses and you've got a deal.
Deal.

Deal.

Nice, you already have the av going on right now though. Get used to it.

Nice, you already have the av going on right now though. Get used to it.
What are you saying?

Uh oh.

The case for Sanchez took a hit last night. While 3 TD passes is ok, being limited to 227 yards and throwing a crucial pick while failing to lead your team to victory over Oregon State (who came into the game 1-2 with their only victory coming against Hawaii) means he's bound to slide down the list a bit.

I'm really surprised that with all their 5 star linemen and running backs that the team could only manage 86 rushing yards, meanwhile their stud defense let Rodgers go for 186.

With another 44 carries today, Ringer is averaging 37+ carries per game. He's on pace to have more carries than any other back in a single season, especially if they make it to a bowl game (which they should).

Do you think that helps his chances, hurts his chances, or is a non-factor?

Furthermore, suppose Spartan WRs actually start catching the ball. Ringer would be needed less. If Spartan fans want him to be a Heisman contender, you'll need him to get all those carries still.

This will be an interesting story to watch throughout the season.

I still say you'll see Colt McCoy rise up in the rankings. He didn't have a ton of yardage today, but completed all but two passes with 3 TD, along with 84 yards and 2 TD on the ground. In 4 games he has completed 80 of 100 passes for 1,018 yards and 14 TD with only 1 INT. He's also added 278 rushing yards and 4 TD on only 34 carries. I'm really looking forward to their game at Oklahoma in 2 weeks. Between him and Bradford there is some serious QB talent. Then they host Daniel and Missouri the following week. Holy crap!

Just an observation from someone who doesn't follow these things that closely...He doesn't seem to be that special of a back to win the heisman on a team that isn't that great.

imo, you really have to be special if you aren't on a team ranked in the top 5 most of the year.

I'd like to see him behind USC's line or something.

I think the more carries you get, the more it hurts you. It's one thing if you carry the load in a big time game that's close (like when Chris Perry got 50+ Vs. MSU), but when your winning your games by 15-20+ and your getting 40+ touches, then your just padding your stats...

Ringer's numbers are definitely inflated.

Regardless of the Heisman, NFL teams are getting wise to how much heavy workloads can hurt you in the long run (except for MM, who was all over K Smith). This many carries could hurt his draft stock come next year.

http://adsatt.espn.go.com/ad/sponsors/nissan/Sep_2008/niss-308x50-0012.jpg

http://promo.espn.go.com/espn/contests/theheismanvote/?dcc=0.207705374&dcn=1

I saw that graphic earlier today and immediately thought of WTF. I considered making it my sig for the hell of it, but no.

Well, I suppose we can officially put this thread to rest now.

Well, I suppose we can officially put this thread to rest now.

eh?

Ohio St game eliminated him.

He didn't really have that great of a game against Michigan. One long run that was the result of poor Michigan tackling, and a "solid" performance for the rest of the game. Nothing spectacular.

MSU would be a sub-.500 team without him, though.

I think he still has a shot. But, they'd have to win out and he'd have to show well against PSU.

Unless Colt McCoy dies I don't see it happening.