Star Spangled mess: Mavs’ Howard insults anthem (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-mavericks-howard&prov=ap&type=lgns)



DALLAS (AP)—The battered reputation of Josh Howard took another hit this week when an online video surfaced showing the Dallas Mavericks forward disrespecting the national anthem.

In a video posted on YouTube, Howard is shown on a football field at a charity flag football game. As the national anthem plays in the background, Howard approaches a camera and says: “‘The Star Spangled Banner’ is going on right now. I don’t even celebrate that (expletive). I’m black.”

Howard’s agent, Jeff Schwartz, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment. Donnie Nelson, the Mavericks’ president of basketball operations, directed questions to team owner Mark Cuban, who in an e-mail declined to comment.

The incident is the latest off-court problem for Howard, a fifth-year pro from Wake Forest who averaged 19.9 points and seven rebounds last season. He was arrested in July when police said he was drag racing at 94 mph in a 55 zone. A court appearance was scheduled for next week.

Howard was criticized last season for saying in a radio interview during a first-round playoff series against New Orleans that he occasionally smokes marijuana. Later that same series, he angered coach Avery Johnson by throwing himself a birthday bash after a Game 4 loss to the Hornets.

-BqG9kjknVw

fuck the vids no longer available! well i think we should be looking to make the official josh howard is a douche bag thread

The anthem was written the night settlers won independence. Blacks were not considered people during that period(and some people still believe that), thus could not fight for the US. I can somewhat understand where he's coming from.

Not sure why sometimes things like this bugs me and others it doesn't. This one just doesn't.

I've seen it on ESPN thats for sure.

And at the other end, Tayshaun Prince wins a gold medal for his country. :)

And at the other end, Tayshaun Prince wins a gold medal for his country. :)

[smilie=welldone.gi:

And at the other end, Tayshaun Prince wins a gold medal for his country. :)
No Disrespect, and Darth has it right. The National Anthem from a historical standpoint isn't really going to be hoorah for every african american. My only complaint is the way he was about it. But he was on a cell phone quick shot and is still fairly young.

I don't want to get into a racial debate here, but since when has Howard had to worry about any of those things in his life? He grew up in a good atmosphere and is being paid millions of dollars every year because he's good at a game. He's also so dumb that he had to go to a year of military school because he couldn't get above the 500s on his SAT.

I think there are huge percent of African Americans that can make that claim, however, Josh Howard is not one of them.

I think there are huge percent of African Americans that can make that claim, however, Josh Howard is not one of them.
I understand what you're going, but you're jumping into self righteous territory with that claim just off of reading his wikiprofile. Again I agree that he's not the brightest tool in the shed, maybe schools doing his homework for him had a some help in that. I know a guy who claims Dion Harris of UM is a sack of bricks in the brain department and couldn't have legitimately passed. With that said, The "you guys are millionaires" thing has always been a tough thing to live up to for people who weren't before. Actually nevermind because I dont really want to get into the race part of this too, and thats where it'll head no matter what.

I agree, I'll steer clear of that as well, Gutz, and I respect your opinion on it. I just wanted to throw my opinion out there. I bet if it was someone else that said his comments, I might have a different perspective. I've just always thought Josh Howard says the first thing that comes to mind, and it's usually something stupid, the proof being in the LOL@Josh Howard thread we have.

No Disrespect, and Darth has it right. The National Anthem from a historical standpoint isn't really going to be hoorah for every african american. My only complaint is the way he was about it. But he was on a cell phone quick shot and is still fairly young.
There are all kinds of names, conventions, etc. that aren't great in the context of slavery. Lots of modern-day innovation came from folks who turn out to be racists. Reject it and build something better, or embrace what you have with its flaws and make it better. Don't just bitch.

FWIW, I don't like the Star Spangled Banner.
I'd much rather have America The Beautiful.
That's change I can believe in. ;)

FWIW, I don't like the Star Spangled Banner.
I'd much rather have America The Beautiful.
That's change I can believe in. ;)

:motown soa:

The only problem is that God is mentioned in America the Beautiful, and Zip might murder someone if that happens.

The only problem is that God is mentioned in America the Beautiful, and Zip might murder someone if that happens.

MoTown racks up yet another 'dubya'.

The only problem is that God is mentioned in America the Beautiful, and Zip might murder someone if that happens.
I'm surprised he doesn't gun down churches every sunday. He does get pretty volatile on the subject.

I thought or think Zips wife is a Christian so he's just having some fun.

Black people? We don't celebrate that shit.

^LOL

2 years later they're still the butt of many of our jokes.

^LOL

2 years later they're still the butt of many of our jokes.
How does he know anything g brothered?
http://www.vaq34.com/vaq34/wtf-cat.jpg

The SDB is well versed in the WTF archives.

The anthem was written the night settlers won independence. Blacks were not considered people during that period(and some people still believe that), thus could not fight for the US. I can somewhat understand where he's coming from.Yup, becuase he was there that night.

...

Does he have to be there for it to look crappy from his point of view? Again add an asterisk to my point because Howard is a dumbass, but he doesn't have to be there when the bs is put together to call it bs.

Does he have to be there for it to look crappy from his point of view? Again add an asterisk to my point because Howard is a dumbass, but he doesn't have to be there when the bs is put together to call it bs.For him to say what he said, then yes, absolutly he had to be there.

He has a better lifestyle then 99% of all Americans(Hell in the WORLD) thanks to this fine country. If anything he should be even more thankfull for this country then the common masses that make it up.

It's this country that made him a gazillionaire, its this country that lets him say stupid-ass crap, and its this country that lets him live free, and be happy.

His point of view doesnt give him the right to say what he said, this very country he refuses to respect gives him the right to say what he said, the freedom of speach.

People claiming the past they HAD NO PART OF, in excusing poor behavior is worse then the behavior itself.

He wasnt a victim here, just a dumbass. A dumbass that needs to be bitch-slapped for saying something so fucking stupid.

The guy is a moron and has shown such numerous times. To pretend that the justification for this protest is nuanced in anyway is to give him more credit then he's shown worthy of. So unless the guy breaks it down with more than "I'm black", I don't imagine his personal opinion on the matter is anything more then individual bigotry and probably ignorantly misguided based on partial and biased knowledge he's gleaned from his life.

That's not to say that a protest of the National Anthem would not be justified on similar grounds as those Mr. Howard would like to believe he's making his protest on. However, the guy is a knucklehead and deserves no benefit of the doubt on this point.

And of course, Mxy is correct when he says America the Beautiful would be a better anthem as it would fit more with the traditional role of a national anthem (a general positive message about the country as a whole rather then a reminiscence of one moment in our history, even if it's perhaps our most crucial moment in history). Plus, it sounds better.

I really hate to be the one to say something shocking here, but the Founding Fathers and all that patriotic stuff is just hogwash. The existence of slavery and Jim Crow tells us that they talked a lot of mess about freedom and brotherhood, but they didn't really mean it.

The real founders of freedom in America are the people of today. And the foundation of a free society did not happen in 1776, 1787, 1812, 1840, 1865, 1916, or 1945. It took until 1965 to start forming a truly free society.

If someone wants to talk about how great a country we were during the war of 1812 and how worthy dying for this country was ... sorry, but I beg to differ. But if someone wants to write something about the Voting Rights Act that has a nice melody, I'm up for it.

Go ahead and mock Josh Howard for being a fool and an embarassment - which he is - but don't mock him for choosing to exercise his right to judge a country based on its actual merits.

Strong, Swam.

Can I suggest the theme from "Good Times"?

You can't judge history ethically based on modern day morality. If you do all people ever would be considered immoral. Just as in a hundred years people would look back and judge us as immoral for who knows what we don't realize we do.

Yes, we became more free after the Civil Rights movement but to say those who came before were not freedom fighters is a slander to those who came before.

If you can't judge history based on modern morality, why change anything ever at all? That's senseless. That's tantamount to saying that all societies progress through trial-and-error.

And it's not as though I'm sitting here laughing at Julius Caesar's masseur who thought he could cure Caesar's epilepsy by rubbing his feet (although that is pretty funny). I'm pointing out that there were a group of men founding a nation who knew they had an opportunity to eliminate a great evil, failed to do so, and were conscious of that failure and how it might impact posterity.

The philosophical memes that made slavery palatable to some people in the early US were an innovation. Let me say this another way: someone INVENTED a rationale that made slavery tolerable, and passed it along. Before that, it was appalling, like we find it today.

Anyone who trusts the evidence of their senses knows that all human beings are so biologically similar as to render differences negligible. While it may be fashionable to deny one's own senses in different eras, it is never conscionable.

It's not senseless, it's actually the only thing that makes sense. History must be understood in context or else whatever you draw from it is meaningless. What you are doing is like laughing at people who used steam power because they hadn't invented the internal combustion engine.

And not judging history by today's standards has nothing to do with whether you want to change the present. You don't have to play hypocrite and pretend we are 100% morally righteous to understand how people of their day weren't 100% morally righteous themselves. Noting their failings is a good thing to do. Obscuring their successes by denying the biases/lack of advancement of their age is a bad thing.

And no one had to invent anything for slavery to be palatable. Slavery was in common practice long before the dudes in wigs pontificated "natural rights" and the fact that it continued afterward is sad but doesn't mean they didn't accomplish anything.

People claiming the past they HAD NO PART OF, in excusing poor behavior is worse then the behavior itself.

He wasnt a victim here, just a dumbass. A dumbass that needs to be bitch-slapped for saying something so fucking stupid.

Following through on that theme, people who salute the flag, people who put their hands over their hearts and sing the national anthem are equally stupid. They achieved no victory there, after all. They're just a bunch of bandwagon cats claiming a past they HAD NO PART OF.

The past we had no part of is still a part of us. We inherit the good part and the bad parts.

Following through on that theme, people who salute the flag, people who put their hands over their hearts and sing the national anthem are equally stupid. They achieved no victory there, after all. They're just a bunch of bandwagon cats claiming a past they HAD NO PART OF.

The past we had no part of is still a part of us. We inherit the good part and the bad parts.Thats not the same thing at all, but I suspect you knew that before you typed it.

I salute the flag, and put my hand over my heart becuase of the nation we are today. We ee our faults, and are constantly trying to correct them.

You absolutley have to be part of something, to either activly cheer, or jeer for it.(Historicaly speaking of course)

It would be ridiculous for me to feel shame for what the Nazis did to the Jews becuase I am mostly German, and have some Nazi history in my family tree. Do I feel bad for the people who suffered at the hands of the Nazis themselves? Of course, but I am not going to turn my back on my german heritage becuase of something that happened two generations removed from me. It wouldnt make sense.

Its absurd for Howard to say what he said, when he lives in a completly different society from the one hes referring to. Would someone from that era have the right to what he did? You bet your ass. Just as if there were slaves still alive in todays world. Give them whatever they want, becuase they DESERVE it.

Blacks today that had to live thru southern HELL during the civil rights era want to urinate on the American flag for what thier country did to them can do it in front of me, and I will clap. They sure as hell earned that right.

I'll bet that if someone who was beaten at the hands of white people back in the 50's, and had to drink from different fountains, and eat in different restaraunts, and were treated like shit, could, would slap the shit out of Howard for saying what he did.

It diminishes what they had to go thru. Howard is reaping the benefits of millions of oppressed peoples, and should be gratfull AS HELL to be where he is today.

Do we still have our problems? Of course, we dont live in a perfect country, but its a world better then what it was in 1776, 1876, and even 1976.

Progression should be celebrated, and the past shouldnt be dredged up when it has no relevence, or to make ones stupid actions seem justified.

Thats not the same thing at all, but I suspect you knew that before you typed it.

I salute the flag, and put my hand over my heart becuase of the nation we are today. We ee our faults, and are constantly trying to correct them.

You absolutley have to be part of something, to either activly cheer, or jeer for it.(Historicaly speaking of course)

So are you saying that saluting the flag and putting your hand over your heart during the anthem isn't actively cheering, because I would contend it is. Or that you had an active part in it, in which case can you probably have a portrait in your attic that looks like a 200 year old zeebneeb.



Progression should be celebrated, and the past shouldnt be dredged up when it has no relevence, or to make ones stupid actions seem justified.
It's inseparable. The future of the country is on a trajectory set by the past. If I stick my fingers in my ears and pretend the past didn't happen, it doesn't go away.

For him to say what he said, then yes, absolutly he had to be there.
No he doesn't, but if thats your standard so be it.


He has a better lifestyle then 99% of all Americans(Hell in the WORLD) thanks to this fine country. If anything he should be even more thankfull for this country then the common masses that make it up.
So should Vick. But it doesn't work that easy for someone to come into an extreme change of lifestyle that isn't built from scratch. That's why people who win the lottery have a good chance of spending all their money unwisely. You're being naive as hell when you preach something like that and put an even more naive "99 percent of all americans" stamp on it.



It's this country that made him a gazillionaire, its this country that lets him say stupid-ass crap, and its this country that lets him live free, and be happy.
Lets? How the fuck are you not in Iraq with this mantra? You're perfect for blind patriotism. Sorry if I don't buy it, but i won't step on your idea of such a polite country that it lets us be free.


His point of view doesnt give him the right to say what he said, this very country he refuses to respect gives him the right to say what he said, the freedom of speach.
I agree that its his freedom of speech that gives him his right. Don't understand how exactly you've found yourself to be the decider on whats right for his point of view.


People claiming the past they HAD NO PART OF, in excusing poor behavior is worse then the behavior itself.
Actually no one here is saying that. He never defended his poor behavior and neither has anyone else, but the position he took is understandable to me partially. It's also his entitlement as an american. From a heritage standpoint the past may mean more to me than you, so I can't begin to write the past off as irrelevant, especially when some of the ignorance of that era still exists.



He wasnt a victim here, just a dumbass. A dumbass that needs to be bitch-slapped for saying something so fucking stupid.
1.) I called him a dumbass long before you ever got off your high horse to address this subject in full rant. Not really the topic though.

2.)You're welcomed to bitch slap him, good luck with that.

I propose that this thread should get moved to the Pol/Sci/Religion forum. Who's with me?