Ok, Nate sucks as a starter. Tonight's performance (5 HR allowed in 3.2 innings) simply emphasized it. His ERA is now up to 6.09. He always has (at least) one bad inning, which usually kills his outings.

However, he still has some ability.

I did a little research on our boy and I have some evidence that shows he would be a decent solution to our need for a closer. I looked at how he performed in the 1st inning of each of his outings.

26 outings.
20 of them he didn't allow a single run.
4 he allowed one run.
1 he allowed 2 runs.
1 he allowed 3 runs.

Depending on the situation, that's a minimum of 20 saves in 26 chances, with as many as 25 in 26 chances. The 3 run outing would have certainly been a blown save. The other 5 in which he allowed runs could have been if they were one run games at the time.

In 1st innings he has allowed 27 hits, 5 walks, 5 doubles, a triple and 3 home runs. He only has 14 strikeouts (4.8 K/9) but 14/5 K/BB is decent. He has a 3.12 ERA with a .287 BAA and 1.19 WHIP.

Some of those numbers are not great, some are decent, and some are quite good.

But check this out - remember those numbers come facing the top of the lineup each time. These are the guys that are supposed to be the best at setting the table, getting on base, and getting you to your cleanup hitter. As a closer, he wouldn't necessarily face the better parts of the order each time, which could improve those numbers.

Here's what we know. Nate as a starter isn't working. Nate got a nice contract that makes him impossible to move for a few years. We don't have a closer. We signed Freddy Garcia (which means we have JV, Bondo, Galarraga, Garcia and one other spot - Miner?) It makes sense to me. Moving him to middle relief isn't a good idea because they may be tempted to keep him in for a 2nd inning or beyond.

Finally, in case you needed more evidence. Look below.

http://www.survivinggrady.com/uploaded_images/gagne-727840.jpg

http://www.survivinggrady.com/uploaded_images/thesheener-701834.jpg

Dudes with glasses are supposed to be closers.

Coincidentally, Gagne was 10-13 with an ERA around 5 in 2 years as a starter before being converted to a closer and saving 52 games his first year in that role.

Jeth - I've been saying this for 2 years now. I like the way you think.

Good post.

I've also liked this idea for a few years now. I actually think he'd be even more effective as a closer than those numbers suggest.

Those numbers are all taken from starts, when he is conserving his energy to try to make it through as many innings as possible.

If he went out there in the ninth and could give it his all without regard for pitch count or stamina, then those numbers would have to improve, right?

We'll never get our $'s worth out of him as a starter, might as well use the rest of this year to see if he can close.

Is Freddy Garcia close to ready to take his place in the rotation?

Yep, I think that would be a great idea. Would I bet money on it working? Hell no. Although we have nothing to lose right now and Nate has obviously lost whatever skills he ever had to start games. I don't think we are (or should) going to spend big $ on a closer in the off-season, so some kind out-of-the-box thinking must take place by DD and company, because Rodney and Zoom don't have what it takes.

Also, can we please start giving Joyce some AB's vs. LH pitching. Let the fucking kid get some damn experience this last pat of this bull-shit year. We all know what Thames is going to do, not much. Get the kid ready for next season, maybe he can and should play full time. The Tigers can still use this last part of the year to find some things out.

I don't have a problem with the idea, the issue is just nailing down the starting rotation. We better hope Willis can get his act together.

Nate as the closer?? Sure why not. He's already being paid like one.

Nate as closer?? Sure why not. He usually only gets 3 peeps out a night anyway.

Deplorable idea.

He needs to get his shit together and figure out how to pitch. I don't buy the "well he pitches good in the first so that means hes automatic for the ninth" theory at all. What if his blow up inning always is the 9th?

Fucking dump his ass. Or trade him.

I am really regretting the Renteria deal and although Cabrera is nice, Willis is a hokey joke too.

I am not thrilled with Tigers baseball right now.

I am really regretting the Renteria deal and although Cabrera is nice, Willis is a hokey joke too.

I am not thrilled with Tigers baseball right now.

I still like the Cabrera deal. Maybin hasn't shown he's ever going to be anything more than a .250 hitter with good defense. He's got plenty of time, but even 5 tool guys don't pan out, just ask Randy Smith.

The Renteria deal sucks ass, and I liked it at the time. If he was hitting around .300 it would be fine. he sucks ass and Jair is doing pretty good.

Just looked up Maybin's stats. He strikes out in %31 of his at bats (%3.5 of ABs are HRs)

Let's compare him to two Tigers that like to swing the bat and don't hit for average:

Inge strikes out in %27 of his at bats (%4 of ABs are HRs)
Thames strikes out in %29 of his at bats (%9 of ABs are HRs)

And Maybin's stats are against minor league pitching

I can't blame Dombrowski for the Renteria deal. It was meant to be our 'big offseason move' and then out of nowhere, the Cabrera deal fell into place...

Had the Cabrera deal come first, there's no way we would've done the Edgar trade, that said I think it's unfair to blame Dave for that one.

Edgar was coming off a fantastic season in Atlanta, and was worth the gamble at the time (since Guillen would move to 1B). Not to mention Galarraga has outperformed Jurrjens this year, so it's not like we lost out on much, if anything at all.

And had Jurrjens still been here, Galarraga likely wouldn't be.

But the Cabrera trade was well worth it. Cabrera is worth every penny.

Cut your losses after the season and move on, when you look at all the prospects we've traded in the Sheff, Edgar and Cabrera trades...only Jair Jurrjens has truly contributed on the MLB level so far.

I'll live with that.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Cabrera deal. To acquire one of the best hitters in the game in his early prime and then lock him down for years but having to get back Bubba Gump in return all while giving up just prospects essentially?.....10 times out of 10 I take that deal.

I agree that if we do that deal first, we do not deal for Renteria. I think it was a gamble and we lost out.

I think the days of trying to "buy" a championship are over. Fucking Devil Rays......

and the more I think about it, the more "Nate as the closer" seems intriguing...

in some ways, since he has the ability to strike guys out, and not have to face guys more than once, it seems like it'd be an interesting fit...

i doubt it even get's discussed in the offseason though, but who knows...

I think the days of trying to "buy" a championship are over. Fucking Devil Rays......


True. But if you "buy" pitching, it can work too. Unless they get hurt (Mike Hampton, Carl Pavano, etc.).

I would much rather try to bring guys up through the system than overpay for people. Imagine what CC Sa-fat-hia is going to command this offseason. Chances are he'll blow gonads next year. There are many more decent pitchers for reasonable money than dominate pitchers for ludicrous amounts.

Nate for closer has disaster written all over it.

Nate for closer has disaster written all over it.

Disagree.

What's the worst thing that can happen if we give him a trial run over the last month + of this season?

He can always go back to sucking as a starter again if it doesn't pan out.

Can it get any worse at closer than it already is?

I think you run the risk of ruining his career if this doesn't pan out.

First, let me preface by saying that he is a multimillion dollar athlete and he should suck it up and do his job no matter what.

However, he clearly sucks as a starter. This plays an important psychological role in his head whether you believe it or not. "Hey Nate, you suck as a starter, why not try closing for a while?" Translation- "Hey Nate, you suck. If you can't close, you aren't pitching for us anymore."

So what happens if he sucks in the 9th? Pretty much BOOM, there goes his career.

I have no hard evidence to support any of this.

I think the days of trying to "buy" a championship are over. Fucking Devil Rays......

It's just the Fucking Rays now

and I agree with D's Nuts on this Nate for closer issue

I think you run the risk of ruining his career if this doesn't pan out.

First, let me preface by saying that he is a multimillion dollar athlete and he should suck it up and do his job no matter what.

However, he clearly sucks as a starter. This plays an important psychological role in his head whether you believe it or not. "Hey Nate, you suck as a starter, why not try closing for a while?" Translation- "Hey Nate, you suck. If you can't close, you aren't pitching for us anymore."

So what happens if he sucks in the 9th? Pretty much BOOM, there goes his career.

I have no hard evidence to support any of this.


Nate's signed for $17 million over the next two years, if you assign him the closer duties, it will save us payroll by not having to go out and waste money on a mediocre closer like Brandon Lyon who would probably do not much better than what Nate could.

Nate making $7 and $10 mill the next two years would already put him amongst the highest paid relief pitchers ever! But given the surplus of starting pitching we may have for next year...

- Verlander, Bonderman, Galarraga, Miner, Dontrelle, Freddy Garcia, and whatever FA's we sign

Moving Nate to the closer role would be ideal if you ask me. However, it can only be closer or starter, he's not cut out for a role like say Casey Fossum has right now, we already have a lefty specialist in Seay...

I'd be all for it, Nate as closer.

Projected Stats for Nate as closer- 32/36 in saves, 4.20 ERA, and probably more K's than IP which is Jones' omen.

poll added

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7205/natecloser2ma6.jpg

I don't see how it would ruin his career. The Cards talked about making Wainright a closer (or setup guy) when he comes back (until Carpenter got hurt again). I doubt they would do that risking his career as a starter if they thought it would hurt him. I know it's hard to go from a one inning guy to a starter, but is that true in the opposite direction? Worst case it doesn't work out this year and he stretches his arm out again next spring. Better to try it now IMO. If you wait until the spring you probably lose him as a starter for the whole year if it doesn't work out.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7205/natecloser2ma6.jpg



I'm by no means gay, but Nate Robertson is hotter than Kyra Sedgwick.

Do you think we should email Dombrowski and tell him that there's a 6-1 ratio on the voting in a message board and, therefore, he should demand Leyland thry this experiment?

Do you think we should email Dombrowski and tell him that there's a 6-1 ratio on the voting in a message board and, therefore, he should demand Leyland thry this experiment?


What's his e-mail address? I have several things I'd like to tell Dave.

Dear Dave,

Why is Virgil Vasquez still on the 40 man roster?


Warm Regards,

- Wilfredo

Dear Wlifredo,

Because of a recent trend with Tigers pitchers, we are unable to cut Virgil. By cutting him, we would guarantee him a solid career with another big league club. This would be taken in an extremely negative way by fans, thus creating an unsavory backlash that, due to the current recession of the team, we cannot handle at this time. I do thank you for your input, though, and would be more than happy to hear any other ideas you have, as I have obviously forgotten how to build a championship ball club.

Regards,

David Dombrowski
Executioner, Detroit Tigers

We we're able to slip Tata through waivers to take him off the 40 man, I'm sure we could do the same with Virgil.

But Dave's the expert...