Per RotoWorld...

3 team deal is close to finished...


Cleveland gets: Mo Williams (5 years, $43 million left on his contract, what an abortion that's gonna be on Cleveland's payroll)

Milwaukee gets: Luke Ridnour

Oklahoma City gets: either Delonte West (via S&T) and/or Joe Smith's expiring contract


I don't think this makes Cleveland any better (or worse). Mo Williams was outperformed by Ramon Sessions, and honestly, he's not much better (if at all) than Delonte West. Delonte's a much better defender than Mo Williams, while Mo's probably a better scorer...

Great move for Hammond. Get's some of that excess garbage off his payroll...now if he can unload Dan Gadzuric, he'll look like a pure genius.

Mo averaged 17/3/6 while shooting an abysmal 34%. Cleveland is arguably the most offensively challenged team in East, so if nothing else, this should put their scoring margin in the green again...

Mo averaged 17/3/6 while shooting an abysmal 34%. Cleveland is arguably the most offensively challenged team in East, so if nothing else, this should put their scoring margin in the green again...

I think you have the Wrong Mo, because he shot 48 percent and is a very tough pg to guard. His 3 point percentage was 38 percent and 34 percent last year. Maybe thats where you got that from.

wil whats wrong with you today. Saying Iggy can't defend, now Mo can't score?

His two downsides are defense and staying healthy. But he can create his own shot w/o Lebron's help, something Gibson/West/Hughes all could not do. It's a great move for cleveland.

mo is an excellent scorer. hes got a good outside shot and is way better than delonte. delonte fucking sucks

(anybody who has seen him play knows he's an exceptional shooter in general and especially off the dribble, and pushes the break at a high speed which are both things Cleveland needs), i gotta wonder how much he's seen of either guy.


If Mo Williams was such an exceptional shooter, than Ramon Sessions must be Magic Johnson.

If Mo Williams was such an exceptional shooter, than why would Hammond give him away for pennies on the dollar?

The numbers are skewed, he hasn't played more than 68 games since 2004-05.

Mo Williams in Cleveland is the 2nd coming of Larry Hughes.

He's a good shooter, but the problem is he's a shooter. They want someone who's going to get open shots for guys like Richard Jefferson and Michael Redd, you know, someone like T.J. Ford

If Mo Williams was such an exceptional shooter, than Ramon Sessions must be Magic Johnson.

If Mo Williams was such an exceptional shooter, than why would Hammond give him away for pennies on the dollar?

The numbers are skewed, he hasn't played more than 68 games since 2004-05.

Mo Williams in Cleveland is the 2nd coming of Larry Hughes.

nono. mo williams has his injury problems, but he hasnt had a decent backup since sessions, and he showed up at the end of last year. hes been plagued with fatigue and injuries because he hasnt had a great backup since tj ford, and even then mo wasnt as good. he emerged as a good shooting pg becuse the bucks had no choice. he can go off for 30 a game if he was the first option. but being the 2nd/3rd option behind redd, mo gets you 17/6. hes a good point guard. but why is he being given away for nothing? the bucks could use a more pass first pg in sessions than mo. giving touches to rj redd and bogut and mkaing them all happy is going to be hard. a pg like mo can be the most easily replaced. see delonte. he doesnt demand alot of shots, can shoot the 3 and play deecent enough defense. mo also has a shitty ass contract so getting him off the books would be good. saying mo williams is the 2nd coming of hughes is stupid

yeah your right, larry hughes is a much better defender than mo williams

combined Joe Smith & Delonte West avg. 18 ppg during their time in Cleveland...so from a pure numbers stand point, they are giving up offense in the deal...

unless you think hickson or tarence kinsey will get the minutes to make a big impact...which is possible, i suppose hickson could be this years thad young

i still think the big move for cleveland won't come until feb. assuming it's a lock they deal Wally...

Unless Wally has a crazy resurgence, I don't see any reason they wouldn't deal his expiring contract to make LeBron happy.

Done deal.


Bucks send Williams to Cavaliers in three-team deal
By Chris Broussard
ESPN The Magazine
Updated: August 13, 2008, 3:32 PM ET

Cleveland, Milwaukee and Oklahoma City have agreed in principle to a six-player trade that could add a much-needed second scorer to LeBron James' Cavaliers.

Mo Williams, the high-scoring point guard from Milwaukee, will go to Cleveland in the deal, which should be announced later Wednesday.

The 6-foot-1 Williams averaged 17.2 points and a team-high 6.3 assists for the Bucks last season.

Cleveland will send shooting guard Damon Jones to Milwaukee and forward Joe Smith to Oklahoma City.

Milwaukee also will get point guard Luke Ridnour and forward Adrian Griffin from Oklahoma City.

Oklahoma City, formerly known as the Seattle SuperSonics, also gets Desmond Mason, the athletic small forward, from the Bucks.

Since joining the Cavaliers in 2003-04, James has not had a teammate who averaged as much as 17 points per game. But Williams has done so the past two seasons, averaging a career-high 17.3 points in his breakout season of 2006-2007.

The acquisition of Williams may spell the end of Delonte West's brief tenure in Cleveland. The Cavaliers have been embroiled in contract talks with West, a free agent who became their starting point guard after being traded from Seattle last February.

While Williams, 25, will definitely be Cleveland's starting point guard, a person close to the situation said the Cavaliers still will look to re-sign West, a 6-4 combo guard who could start beside Williams in the backcourt. Milwaukee and Oklahoma City view the trade largely as a salary dump.

The Bucks, who traded former lottery pick Yi Jianlian to New Jersey for Richard Jefferson earlier this summer, get rid of the five years, $43 million left on Williams' contract while taking on Jones and Griffin, both of whom are in the last year of their deals. Ridnour has just two years, $13 million remaining on his contract.

As for Oklahoma City's acquisitions, Smith and Mason also are in the final year of their deals.

He's a good shooter, but the problem is he's a shooter.
Ding Ding DINg...Sessions isn't a shooter, nor do i get the "he must be magic johnson" in fact he has 17 games experience less than 10 points per game. But he's a true PG. Mo williams is a lights out shooter PG who can mostly run the break. He's perfect for the Cavs and its the first really solid pick up to address a trouble area they've made in awhile.

This has less to do with Sessions and more to do with Mo not being the PG Hammonds wants.

combined Joe Smith & Delonte West avg. 18 ppg during their time in Cleveland...so from a pure numbers stand point, they are giving up offense in the deal....
from a pure numbers standpoint they only lost one point since mo himself averages 17 ppg. Overall they gained a guy who doesn't need Lebron dishing it to them to score and can create their own shot. If i were the cavs I happily give West and Smith up for Mo. As long as he stays healthy, they'll have a much faster offense with him at the helm.

Gutz, check yourself. They didn't give up West. Just Damon Jones and Smith.

you can't have a faster offense with Ilgauskas, Ben, and Varejao in the front court...and in Mike Brown's NCAA style offense, I don't think it's going to change anything...delonte was a quick little pecker too, albeit not as much of a scorer as Mo, but the way he dictated the offensive pace won't be any different with Mo taking the ball up the floor...

the Cavs are still going to have to win their games with defense.

not to mention, the cavs have next to nobody that can guard on the perimeter (assuming they don't retain Delonte), if they want to speed up the pace and move LeBron to the 4, and go with Boobie, Mo and say Sasha/Wally, they aren't going to be able to stop anybody from getting good looks from outside

I'm not implying it's a bad trade, I'm just implying it shouldn't have much of a bearing, if any, as far as where they stand in the East. Detroit is still an easy favorite to win the Central...

Gutz, check yourself. They didn't give up West. Just Damon Jones and Smith.
So they got even better? By subtraction alone on Jones, and gained heavily at the PG position.

I wonder if they've bought out Eric Snow yet.


5- Ilgauskas/Varejao
4- Ben/D. Jackson
3- LBJ/Hickson
2- Wally/Sasha/Kinsey
1- Mo/Boobie


They need to add some more depth, Darnell Jackson & Kinsey aren't going to give them anything.

you can't have a faster offense with Ilgauskas, Ben, and Varejao in the front court.....
Since they can't be out rebounded, it doesnt matter, they just need Mo, Lebron, and the starting SG on an outlet pass. Something like when we run the break with Rip, Billups and Tay on an OUTLET pass.


the Cavs are still going to have to win their games with defense.
Nobody said other wise. But the idea is to avoid losing games because the offense can move against a team just as good defensively, like what happened against Boston.

I wonder if Joe D lobs a phone call to Hammond to "thank" him for making the Cavs better?

Since they can't be out rebounded, it doesnt matter, they just need Mo, Lebron, and the starting SG on an outlet pass. Something like when we run the break with Rip, Billups and Tay on an OUTLET pass.

That's what they did anyway when they first got Delonte. Mo isn't going to cut into LeBron's shot attempts. Between Wally & Boobie's 12 3-pt attempts per night (wich is about all either of those two are good for), I would be shocked if Mo's ppg doesn't come down.



Nobody said other wise. But the idea is to avoid losing games because the offense can move against a team just as good defensively, like what happened against Boston


Yeah, but they aren't as good defensively anymore. Delonte was solid on defense, he wasn't great, but he's effective. He doesn't have nearly as many defensive lapses as Mo does.

Joe D has too much on his plate to worry about Hammonds.

Funny thought:

Maybe Hammond moved Mo to make room for Chauncey?

There were some rumors a while back that they were interested, right?

Billups for Bogut?

Maybe we could get Sessions, too.

edit: In hindsight, I'm not sure that there were rumors this summer about Milwaukee/Billups. I might be getting confused about their interest in him when he was a free agent last summer.

Following up on that...

Bogut's contract extension seemed a little weird when it was signed earlier this summer. There was no reason they needed to give it to him now. His salary for this year is a little over $6m, but once he signed that extension he became a poison pill player, which means that if he is traded, his trade value is the average salary of his new contract, which coincidentally puts him right in Chauncey's range.

Of course, this is all pure speculation, but when you factor in the Hammond angle, if this was all pre-arranged, it might explain at least two things. One being the timing of Bogut's extension and the other being Joe's "inactivity" this summer.

Just thinking out loud, as usual.

I wouldn't mind that deal too much. I'd like to see us get more than Bogut for Chauncey, but I know that's probably a homer bias seeping through. We'd get our C of the future, Sheed moves back to PF, unless he's involved in another deal, Brown stays on the bench as a defensive backup C where he belongs, Stuck moves into the starting lineup and Hunter and Bynum become the backup PGs unless we get something else to work in there (like Sessions)

Bynum doesnt count as legit part of any conversation about final roster to me. He's preseason fodder.

Don't know How I feel about Hammonds getting the legit PG he wants for that pussy ass team.

Bynum doesnt count as legit part of any conversation about final roster to me. He's preseason fodder.


I think he got a guaranteed deal.

edit: "multiyear" http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265463&postcount=249

Per Storytellers:
2008/09: $711,517
2009/10: $825,497 (team option)

Ok full season fodder. :( Great signing, he's the next Kidd....~sigh~

I'm not counting on Bynum for anything but I'd still deal Chauncey for a legit big man. I'm sure we could find a PG for Sheed's deal. We could probably get Hinrich for him.

I'm not counting on Bynum for anything but I'd still deal Chauncey for a legit big man. I'm sure we could find a PG for Sheed's deal. We could probably get Hinrich for him.
I dont want to trade sheed for a PG. Especially not the mentally fragile Hinrich. The whole point of having a true Center if being able to have Sheed play exclusive at PF and have a much better inside presence with Sheed. I think its a pointless waste if we deal sheed after getting a true Center.

I dont want to trade sheed for a PG. Especially not the mentally fragile Hinrich. The whole point of having a true Center if being able to have Sheed play exclusive at PF and have a much better inside presence with Sheed. I think its a pointless waste if we deal sheed after getting a true Center.
Well, then you roll with 1 PG and 4 PF's that all need PT. It doesn't have to be Sheed moved, but then you better move Max for a PG. Not many teams have extra PGs.

Memphis - Mayo, Conley, Stoudamire, Lowry, Crittenton (depending on which G spot they all play)
Houston - Alston, Jackson, Francis, Brooks (not a great bunch there)
Utah - Williams, Price, Knight (perhaps Knight could be had)

I can't think of any other team that is really 3 deep at PG (besides Chicago which I mentioned and Seattle until they dealt Ridinour).

Milwaukee's got Sessions/Ridnour/Lue/Jones and Charlie Bell (in a pinch).

I wouldn't be surprised if they waived Donkey.

But I agree with your points, Chris.

Well, then you roll with 1 PG and 4 PF's that all need PT. It doesn't have to be Sheed moved, but then you better move Max for a PG. Not many teams have extra PGs.

Memphis - Mayo, Conley, Stoudamire, Lowry, Crittenton (depending on which G spot they all play)
Houston - Alston, Jackson, Francis, Brooks (not a great bunch there)
Utah - Williams, Price, Knight (perhaps Knight could be had)

I can't think of any other team that is really 3 deep at PG (besides Chicago which I mentioned and Seattle until they dealt Ridinour).


Houston traded Bobby Jackson to Sacramento as part of the Ron Artest trade, and there isn't a Stoudamire on the Grizzlies...they have Marko Jaric though...

Milwaukee's got Sessions/Ridnour/Lue/Jones and Charlie Bell (in a pinch).

I wouldn't be surprised if they waived Donkey.

But I agree with your points, Chris.

Well the bucks don't matter since the idea someone posted was Chauncey for Bogut. Looking at that PG rotation they have now, why would they want Chauncey at all for Bogut?

If they waived Jones and traded Bogut & Sessions for Chauncey, I think they'd like:

Billups/Ridnour/Lue

But what would their front court look like without Bogut?

They have Redd/RJ/Alexander to play the wings. All they have up front is Charlie and Gadz. Alexander can probably play some 4 as well, but they'd basically have one center on the roster.

They just signed Elson today, too.

I doubt the bucks make any more changes. Hammonds actually done a pretty good job so far. got rid of 2 shitty contracts in mo and simmons.