Man held in Fla. on charge of threatening Obama

By CURT ANDERSON, AP Legal Affairs Writer
20 minutes ago

MIAMI - A man who authorities said was keeping weapons and military-style gear in his hotel room and car appeared in court Thursday on charges he threatened to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

Raymond Hunter Geisel, 22, was arrested by the Secret Service on Saturday in Miami and was ordered held at Miami's downtown detention center without bail Thursday by a federal magistrate.

A Secret Service affidavit charges that Geisel made the threat during a training class for bail bondsmen in Miami in late July. According to someone else in the 48-member class, Geisel allegedly referred to Obama with a racial epithet and continued, "If he gets elected, I'll assassinate him myself."

Obama was most recently in Florida on Aug. 1-2 but did not visit the South Florida area.

Another person in the class quoted Geisel as saying that "he hated George W. Bush and that he wanted to put a bullet in the president's head," according to the Secret Service.

Geisel denied in a written statement to a Secret Service agent that he ever made those threats, and the documents don't indicate that he ever took steps to carry out any assassination. He was charged only with threatening Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, but not for any threat against President Bush.

Geisel's court-appointed attorney declined comment.

In the interview with a Secret Service agent, Geisel said "if he wanted to kill Senator Obama he simply would shoot him with a sniper rifle, but then he claimed that he was just joking," according to court documents.

A search of Geisel's 1998 Ford Explorer and hotel room in Miami uncovered a loaded 9mm handgun, knives, dozens of rounds of ammunition including armor-piercing types, body armor, military-style fatigues and a machete. The SUV was wired with flashing red and yellow emergency lights.

Geisel told the Secret Service he was originally from Bangor, Maine, and had been living recently in a houseboat in the Florida Keys town of Marathon, according to court documents. He said he used the handgun for training for the bail bondsman class, had the knives for protection and used the machete to cut brush in Maine.

In the affidavit, the Secret Service said Geisel told agents that he suffered from psychiatric problems including post-traumatic stress disorder, but he couldn't provide the names of any facilities where he sought treatment.

I'm still pretty much convinced that somebody's going to make a serious run at taking BO out.

I can almost visualize it happening and it's really disturbing.

In the interview with a Secret Service agent, Geisel said "if he wanted to kill Senator Obama he simply would shoot him with a sniper rifle, but then he claimed that he was just joking," according to court documents.

good one......jackass

As I wrote in the general election thread, the new mccain ads dovetail with evangelical dipshits writing about obama as being the antichrist. I live in the south, and most evangelicals are mindless zombies that will do whatever their pastor tells them. Rile them up enough to believe obama is the antichrist and it is almost certain that one of them will take a shot at him.

^ LOL

Looks like maybe we need a JM's Safety thread too.

Looks like maybe we need a JM's Safety thread too.
Nobody cares about that old fuck, sorry :) Wouldn't be surprised if he threatened his own safety for attention.

At least McCain has plenty of places to hide.

At least McCain has plenty of places to hide.
Yea, like inside scrotum sack where his balls used to be before his advisers cut them off.

I thinking more about his houses.

Looks like maybe we need a JM's Safety thread too.
Given some of the comments after this post, I agree with Tahoe.

http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/assisination.plot.obama.2.802827.html

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_10302666

http://www.michiganmessenger.com/3023/white-nationalist-websites-fired-up-with-conversation-about-alleged-obama-assassination-plot

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2008/08/possible_plot_to_assassinate_o.php

With a fuck-ton of reporters coagulating, there's inevitably random threats of this or that by people trying to get attention. The news tends to ignore them. So my sense is that this is being underplayed.

As news began to build about an alleged plot to assassinate (http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/assisination.plot.obama.2.802827.html) Sen. Barack Obama, the white nationalist Web site Stormfront.org saw 20 posts in two hours.

SDB-like.

Of course, the other alternative is that the news is being stupid, stupider than they were when the McVeigh trials were happening.

http://llnw.image.cbslocal.com/19/2008/08/26/175x131/GartrellJohnson.jpg

I really hope that I am wrong and Obama's going to survive his presidency (if elected), but he's going to need more security than any other president has ever had, IMO.

There's as many nutjobs that hate Bush as there are that hate BO, imo.

There's as many nutjobs that hate Bush as there are that hate BO, imo.

I wonder what party affiliation most gun toting nutjobs have?

Honest question.

I know what I think, but what do you think, Tahoe?

Yeah, but the idea of "President Cheney" scares them. "President Quayle" made his daddy assassination-proof, dontcha know?

Only takes 1 nutjob. There are enough on both sides.

I'd say a lot more haters hate Obama in general.

The only people that would be willing to do something bad to Bush would be a) mentally ill and b) probably leftist.

Someone who would be willing to hurt Obama would be a) mentally ill and one or more of the following:
b) right-wing
c) anti-black
d) dominionist
e) apocalyptic
f) anti-Muslim and unwilling to believe that Obama is not a Muslim
g) traditionalist Christian (i.e. against the theology of Obama's church)
h) tax freak
i) conspiracy theorist (e.g. Scaife, etc.)
j) pro-Muslim and of the belief that Obama is either himself an apostate or would lead the country in a non-Muslim direction
k) left-wing and of the belief that Obama is treacherously centrist

I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to get a job as a delusional Obama-hater.

Lincoln, was assasinated. JFK who did a lot for civil rights compared to almost any president before him especially considering he was dealing with a lot of international issues rather than domestic, was assasinated. So that makes the two presidents who at their time did as much for the progression of African Americans as any, assasinated. A black man becoming president is the next leap. I like Obama, but it just takes one fucktard.

It would be the biggest scar on this countries history if something happened to him... because of his race. We've had assassinations, but if we had one cuz of race makes one sick to their stomach.

When was the last time a right-winger was assassinated? The head of the arkansas democratic party was assassinated this year by a right wing nut job. Another right wing nutter shot up that church in TN. Mcveigh was a right wing nutter. the unabomber- rightie. There is Reagan, but the guy who shot him was trying to impress jodie foster so i don't count that as political. the left has lost a lot of leaders to right wing nutters- jfk, rfk, mlk

edit: i suppose that it is unfair to state that right wing nutters killed jfk and rfk, but right wing nutter violence is on the rise

Right wing nutties cherish guns. Left wing nutties don't.
ps I realize this comment is extremely shallow and is not meant to be serious

Nutters took shots at Reagan and Ford. I'd daresay but for luck and secret service vigilance that no president would ever survive a full term in office.

It's hard to assassinate a president by throwing granola and Jesus shoes at him.

(I would imagine)

Chuck Norris says you're wrong.

BTW, I-25 is closed out here from 6th Ave to I-70 at 5 PM. That's the major stretch of highway by Invesco, but I'm not sure what closing the expressway does exactly (Invesco is a good distance off the expressway).

Chuck Norris says you're wrong.

That was awesome.

Chuck Norris says you're wrong.

...deserving of it's own sig.

un-fucking-believable (msm sources available from link at bottom)



FBI Wanted Obama Plotters Charged, But A Rove Appointee Said No

KUSA - 9Wants to Know has learned three men in Denver planned to assassinate U.S. Senator Barack Obama during the Democratic National Convention in Denver by sneaking into one of his events and shooting him with a gun hidden inside of a camera, according to federal court records.


The men were doing methamphetamine inside the hotel with two women on Aug. 23 discussing the plot to kill Obama, according to federal records.

Adolf said "it would not matter if he killed Senator Obama because police would simply add a murder charge to his pending charges," according to the records. There were seven outstanding warrants for Adolf's arrest.

The underage woman told law enforcement that Adolf also talked about using "a high-powered rifle 22-250 from a high vantage point" to shoot Senator Obama during his acceptance speech at INVESCO Field at Mile High during the DNC.

Even more significant, beyond the details of the plot, was the fact that, as the Colorado Independent notes, the FBI asked for more serious charges to be filed and were turned down.



Based on the evidence, FBI special agent Robert Sawyer believed there was probable cause to charge the men with conspiracy to kill Senator Obama. However, US Attorney Troy Eid last week said there is insufficient evidence to indicate a true threat, plot or conspiracy against the senator.

Note the language used by Eid in dismissing the gravity of the case: the case isn't serious because they were "more aspirational, perhaps, than operational"? Well, when it was the Liberty Seven -- black Muslim men who were described by the FBI as "aspirational rather than operational" -- there was no hesitation by the Justice Department in bringing charges.

Another funny thing: When a black man in prison sent a threatening letter containing baby powder to John McCain, Troy Eid brought down the full force of the law, complete with press conferences and public declarations that "We won't stand for threats of this kind in Colorado."

But when it’s a claque of white men with rifles, disguises, and all the accoutrement of a conspiracy – as well as open admissions to it – Troy Eid isn’t worried. After all, they just a bunch of harmless, tweakers, right? … Just like little Timmy McVeigh.

But then, when you’re a Karl Rove operative promoted to deliver justice the Republican way, as Troy Eid is, that’s the way the scales fall. As Marcy reported at the time, Eid in fact nearly didn't get the Colorado job because of concerns about "improper lobbying."



the first act of the next pres. should put rove and all his justice dept. cronies in a max security prison.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/03/fbi-wanted-obama-plotters-charged-but-a-rove-appointee-said-no/

Racial slurs spray-painted across Obama billboard in Pittsfield Township

Posted by Tracy Davis | The Ann Arbor News September 17, 2008 10:17AM

Racist slurs were spray-painted across a large Barack Obama presidential campaign billboard alongside a heavily trafficked stretch of US-23 in Pittsfield Township sometime overnight Tuesday.

And the U.S. Secret Service is investigating what now appears to be two threatening letters against Obama that were received in Livingston County, according to news reports.

Michigan State Police were on the scene of the billboard Wednesday morning, and have called in for tracking dogs, police said.

Cathleen Babcock, a kindergarten teacher at Pittsfield Elementary School, saw the Obama billboard on her morning commute today and called police to report the incident.

"It's very disturbing," she said.

Brent Colburn, spokesman for the Obama campaign in Michigan, said staff began receiving calls about the billboard vandalism Wednesday morning. They determined the ad is sponsored by a private citizen who supports Obama and also owns the billboard.

Colburn said he believed it to be the first large-scale act of vandalism on Obama campaign material to include racial slurs in the state.

"Whoever did it should be embarrassed and ashamed, but unfortunately, (racism) a reality in our world," Colburn said. "It in no way is a reflection of the reception we've gotten in the Ann Arbor area or anywhere in Michigan."

Police with the Pittsfield Department of Public Safety said they believe someone may have pulled up under the billboard in a truck or other vehicle and defaced the sign as high as they could reach.

The area has a small fire ring where teens are known to hang out, police said, but they did not speculate on who might be responsible. Tire tracks were visible at the site this morning.

Michigan State Police are handling the matter for now; it is not clear if it will be handed off to federal officials later.

Meanwhile, a second letter threatening Obama, this one sent to a Howell business, is being investigated by federal authorites. The Secret Service was already investigating a similar letter sent to the Brighton headquarters of the Livingston County Democratic Party.

Douglas Zloto, resident agent in charge for the Saginaw office of the Secret Service, said this morning there in an active investigation into the Obama threats, but he could not comment the case.

"The Secret Service takes every threat extremely seriously," he said. "We will be using every resource to investigate this threat ... and to determine how it was made."


http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2008/09/medium_OBAMA.jpg
sad

I know racism is everywhere, but I expect better from Michigan residents. I know that makes me naïve, but still.

I expect better from Michigan residents.

I don't. All you've ever had to do is scratch the surface to find it. The idea of a black president is taking a belt sander to that surface.

Pittsfield is aptly named.

And this is by treehugging Northwest kids:

http://news.aol.com/article/obama-effigy-hung-from-college-tree/187003

Philip Nelson fans?

I know racism is everywhere, but I expect better from Michigan residents.
http://cowlander.neobahumut.com/LOL%20PICTURES/LMAO.jpg

You obviously haven't seen enough of Michigan. I used to do inventory about 5 years ago and it took me all over Michigan and northern Ohio. Let me say that you shouldn't expect better and that Ohio is only good for humongous porn outlets from what I gathered.

Ohio is only good for humongous porn outlets from what I gathered.

?

Another "Kill him!" (Obama) from the crowd at a Palin rally yesterday.

Keith went off, I'll post that later, gotta run.

Anonymous white powder was sent to one of Obama's Philly offices, leading to its evacuation. It was later revealed to be sugar, not anthrax.

?
I used to do inventory back in the day and we had alot of contracts in ohio, half of them were porn outlets.

Another "Kill him!" (Obama) from the crowd at a Palin rally yesterday.

Keith went off, I'll post that later, gotta run.

I love when he does these, especially the dramatic shift in camera angles.

uj65cFLcpr4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj65cFLcpr4

I love the intensity.

He likes to portray himself as Edward R. Murrow-esque.

That's his idol.

He signs off every night with "Goodnight and good luck".

A phalanx of lunatics tacitly incited into a clear and present danger to this nation.

Someone isn't satisfied with simply writing banner copy.

RqcfqiXCX0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

thank god we have a true christian like sarah palin to whip up a cult of resentment, hate, partisanship, and scapegoating. I'm sure people were really starting to resent the hopeful, optimistic, post-partisan approach of that non-christian obama. we needed more christian values in this race.

note that i am not anti-religion, but i am anti-political-religion and sarah palin is the best example of an incredibly phony political religionist. the 'true believer' is the one whipping up all the hate. i hope that dobson donahue and others enjoy their time in hell for manipulation of religion for political purposes.

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]i hope that dobson donahue and others enjoy their time in hell for manipulation of religion for political purposes.

There's nothing in scripture that would suggest
manipulation of religion for political purposes is a sin. So to draw a parallel that suggests they'll surely go to hell is quite laughable.

Not everybody's a Democrat.

It's a fact- most Christians are conservative. Dr. James Dobson and Phil Donahue are no different.

Your just upset because of the influence both those gentleman have on other people.

Jesus gave.

There's nothing in scripture that would suggest
manipulation of religion for political purposes is a sin. So to draw a parallel that suggests they'll surely go to hell is quite laughable.

1 Timothy comes pretty close, IMO:


I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

That's not close at all, Mxy.

Nice try.

This is some funny shit wil! I mean, you don't oppose the sentiment that dobson and donahue manipulate religion for political purposes, but you do assert that the manipulation of religion is not a sin. Do you know what the word manipulate means? Of course, American-style representative govt. had not been invented when events in the Bible took place so if you look to scripture for what is allowable, you're on thin ice. Nonetheless, any reasonable interpretation of the Bible would conclude that Christians should be skeptical of government and their leaders, not to coopt government for religious purposes. The inquisition is a famous instance of coopting govt. for religious purposes and i doubt the perpetrators would be held in high regard with the God they supposedly believed in.

donahue and dobson are free to make public comments about political preferences, but not to pass religious judgment on those who disagree. When i talk of dobson and donahue burning in hell, it is to drive home the point of how ridiculous it is to proclaim religious judgment on those who disagree with their politics. I don't proclaim to know what will happen to dobson or donahue after death. However, no religious leader has the right to pass judgment on the political decisions of others because it asserts an authority they do not possess. they can assert their opinion, they can cite scripture, but they must not assert religious certainty.

As the esteemed Jesus said:
"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36)

Please, the only people who listen to what Dobson and Donahue say are people that would vote Republican anyway.

With all the mainstream media slanted towards Obama, wouldn't that be manipulating people to vote for Obama?

It's the same thing.


You shall not murder (Exodus 20:13).

Dobson's not going to support anybody who's pro-choice anyway. So it should come as no surprise to you, really.

passing political judgement = giving their opinions on each candidate

There's nothing in scripture that would suggest is a sin. So to draw a parallel that suggests they'll surely go to hell is quite laughable.

Not everybody's a Democrat.

It's a fact- most Christians are conservative. Dr. James Dobson and Phil Donahue are no different.

Your just upset because of the influence both those gentleman have on other people.
So it's ok to play the religion card in politics? So where do you stand on the separation of Church and state?

When you brag about which side has more Christians, you irresponsibly miss out on your responsibility to avoid throwing religion into the mix.



There's nothing in scripture that would suggest is a sin.

1 Timothy comes pretty close, IMO:
Manipulation involves deception which is most definitely a sin and one of the first in the Bible. Its a pathetic shame that you call yourself a christian and i have better fundamental values on this with that ignorant statement you made. IMO people like that serve themselves, not their Lord. And for sponges like yourself the Bible speaks of you.


For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

So it's ok to play the religion card in politics? So where do you stand on the separation of Church and state?

Religion plays a much bigger role in people's lives than politics do, especially for Christians. Your free to vote for whoever you want, but at the same time, Christians are more likely to vote for somebody who has similiar values. Often times that ends up being the Republican candidate, by default.

Now, I've never been to a church where the minister publically endorses Candidate A or Candidate B. But at the same time, I've heard ministers say they're pro-life or against homosexual marriage. Both of those issues are clearly stated in the Bible as acts of sin. So with the Bible being the fundamental doctrine of Christianity, that's not manipulation, it's morality.


When you brag about which side has more Christians, you irresponsibly miss out on your responsibility to avoid throwing religion into the mix.

I'm not bragging. It's a statement of fact, "most Christians vote Republican". Part of the reason I'm voting for McCain is because he has similiar values that I have. And those very values are ones in which I have gained through growing up in a Christian household.


Manipulation involves deception which is most definitely a sin and one of the first in the Bible.

And your telling me that when the mainstream media anchors clearly show favortism towards Obama & Democrats by HUGE proportions, that they aren't trying to manipulate their viewing audience into voting for Obama? Please, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.


Its a pathetic shame that you call yourself a christian and i have better fundamental values on this with that ignorant statement you made. IMO people like that serve themselves, not their Lord. And for sponges like yourself the Bible speaks of you

Well, that's your opinion. Nobody's perfect, especially myself. But since you obviously aren't a Christian or a Conservative, I'm not going to expect you to know where I'm coming from. Nor do I claim to represent all Christians. I speak for myself and what I've encountered.

Christian, Conservative, Republican...in that order

Well, that's your opinion. Nobody's perfect, especially myself. But since you obviously aren't a Christian or a Conservative, I'm not going to expect you to know where I'm coming from. Nor do I claim to represent all Christians. I speak for myself and what I've encountered.

Christian, Conservative, Republican...in that order

you know this how?

you know this how?


Codename said...


Its a pathetic shame that you call yourself a christian and i have better fundamental values on this with that ignorant statement you made

Obviously he was implying that it was pathetic that I, a christian, had lesser values than himself.

He wouldn't have compared us had he not been implying the fact that I was a Chrisitan, and he wasn't.

It's not to say he isn't religious, but clearly he's not claiming to be a Christian.

Not passing judgement, just using what you give me. I could care less who you or anybody serves.

Religion plays a much bigger role in people's lives than politics do, especially for Christians. Your free to vote for whoever you want, but at the same time, Christians are more likely to vote for somebody who has similiar values. Often times that ends up being the Republican candidate, by default.


Unless you can back that statement up, you should back off of it because it only applies to the narrow segment of fundamentalist christians. Fundamentalist, by definition, being those who believe in the literal interpretation of every word in the bible as being god's word transcribed by man. Since only the republicans cater (pander) to that view, all the people living on a 6000 year old flat earth are going to vote republican because life begins at flirtation.

However you can not, as you have repeatedly attempted to do, extrapolate the views of the fundamentalists to every christian. While the country is predominantly judeochristian, that group isn't monolithic no matter how much the republican party would like it to be.

Our brewing religious war here might have great consequences for Obama's safety... NOT! :) I posted that section of the Bible that's widely seen as pertaining to honesty in government, so I blame myself for some of this.

Has anyone stopped to consider that Obama might want to get shot at?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/15/watch-obamas-note-to-aide_n_135028.html

Willy's right that I'm not Christian(close, but I refuse to claim an orthodox group), ignorantly wrong that I need to know where he's coming from to understand Christianity and how it relates to society. Again that college money is going to fucking waste.



And your telling me that when the mainstream media anchors clearly show favortism towards Obama & Democrats by HUGE proportions, that they aren't trying to manipulate their viewing audience into voting for Obama? Please, let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
Now this is where you're arrogant ass explains how this has anything to do with religious figures exploiting believers for political manipulation. Or did they teach you to just reply with anything you think is similar? You didn't justify one wrong by pointing out another and your religion speaks against this practice you live by.



Well, that's your opinion.
There is no opinion involved in you being wrong about your own scriptures and religious fundamentals. You've fabricated your responsibilities and sins as a christian to cater to your preferences as a person. You prefer to be an arrogant prick, But its not endorsed by your religion, nor does it passed w/o being addressed by the bible. Someday I hope you grow up and learn about your beliefs rather than blindly saying you are part of a religion you can't even read up on.


Well, that's your opinion. Nobody's perfect, especially myself. But since you obviously aren't a Christian or a Conservative, I'm not going to expect you to know where I'm coming from. Nor do I claim to represent all Christians.
You can't have it both ways kid, either you don't represent Christians or you are the one we all have to know where he's coming from to get Christianity. Man you are ignorant to a pure bliss Fredo eyes wide shut.


Christian, Conservative, Republican...in that order
Well you fail from the jump kid. Good luck finding your way, no matter what you think you're not there.

you know this how?
My beliefs are more spiritual than orthodox. But as close as you get to christian w/o saying I am.

This is pointless. A core tenet of Paulian Christianity is that it is impossible to understand without first believing. Believe first, understand later. That's how it goes according to St. Paul. As long as others insist on knowing what they're talking about before they decide to believe it, this discussion will never bear fruit.

Damn, y'all breakin out the religion and shit.

Damn, y'all breakin out the religion and shit.
Not really, just saying dont endorse the exploitation of your own religion as not a sin. It is.

Not really, just saying dont endorse the exploitation of your own religion as not a sin. It is.

yea, see all that shit just goes over my head. Is that a double negative? Cuz double negatives always throw me.

Don't you not see what I'm not sayin? :)

btw..just fuckin around Gutz. Don't go off on me or something.

edit: this post is directed at wil, but is the last i have to offer on religion in politics.

1. what have republicans done about abortion in all the years they had control of the pres., congress, and the supreme court (7 repub 2 dem)?

2. how many 100s of thousands of innocent civilians died in iraq. how many millions left their homes?

3. how many people have been tortured to death or to insanity by our govt. how many of those were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

4. is it christian to endorse proposals that literally aim to expand the gap between rich and poor?

i would never be jealous of dobson and donahue because i think they are 1. morons and 2. powerless. they sold their soul to influence politics and didn't get shit changed, not even a single vote on abortion at the national level. i don't think the repubs have the balls to overturn roe v. wade. they just want to use it as wedge issue for ignorant dumbasses.

i personally would oppose abortion under any situation in my own family (not that it would ever be solely at my discretion as a man), and I would favor laws to make it illegal under any situation except death of the mother after 3 months. i was born catholic, but i have turned my back on the religion since i heard the pope himself worked to cover up molestation and when i hear dumbfuck bishops talking about it being to sin to support dems. The underlying goodness of religion is persuasion through ideas, not simple-minded obediance to the human leaders of the church. if you think abortion is the only issue that is relevant to christianity, you are a dumbass.

edit: this post is directed at wil, but is the last i have to offer on religion in politics.

1. what have republicans done about abortion in all the years they had control of the pres., congress, and the supreme court (7 repub 2 dem)?

2. how many 100s of thousands of innocent civilians died in iraq. how many millions left their homes?

3. how many people have been tortured to death or to insanity by our govt. how many of those were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

4. is it christian to endorse proposals that literally aim to expand the gap between rich and poor?

i would never be jealous of dobson and donahue because i think they are 1. morons and 2. powerless. they sold their soul to influence politics and didn't get shit changed, not even a single vote on abortion at the national level. i don't think the repubs have the balls to overturn roe v. wade. they just want to use it as wedge issue for ignorant dumbasses.


1. Your never going to pass legislation banning abortion. It's mostly a moral issue. Roe V. Wade will never be overturned. No matter how much conservatives want it to be.

2. How many innocent people died here during 9/11? The numbers don't have to equal eachother. War is war. Soldiers are paid to fight.

3. I don't understand the context of your question. Do you mean via capital punishment?

4. I think your missing the point on this one. The main issue isn't to expand the gap between the rich and the poor, but instead it's to let the rich be entitled to keep the money they earned. Is it the same thing? Sorta, but your interpreting it as if rich people are selfish and greedy. But in reality most wealthy people earned they're lifestyle through hard work and opportunity at a time when they weren't blessed financially. All men are created equal. We all have the same opportunities to be successful if we choose to cease them. If you don't put forth the diligence, sacrafice, and work ethic to do so, than you don't have anybody to blame but yourself. But penalizing the rich and telling them "they make too much money" is just an act of socialism. What if that guy making $250K has 4 or 5 children? Suddenly he doesn't have as much "disposable income" as the government assumes he has. "Spread the wealth around" is what Obama said to Joe the plumber. Why should I have to give my money to the government, just so they can give it to people who didn't earn it? What do I get out of it??

Plus, rich people are the ones who create jobs and start small businesses. I don't know about you, but I never got a job from a poor person. You tax the rich, they cut costs (jobs), everybody loses.


i personally would oppose abortion under any situation in my own family (not that it would ever be solely at my discretion as a man), and I would favor laws to make it illegal under any situation except death of the mother after 3 months. i was born catholic, but i have turned my back on the religion since i heard the pope himself worked to cover up molestation and when i hear dumbfuck bishops talking about it being to sin to support dems. The underlying goodness of religion is persuasion through ideas, not simple-minded obediance to the human leaders of the church. if you think abortion is the only issue that is relevant to christianity, you are a dumbass

I've never heard any religious leader say that it's a sin to vote Democrat. Since you said you turned your back on religion, I think what your doing is seeing some instances of a minister 'abuse' his platform at the pulpet, and interpreting it as if all pastors/ministers/bishops are that way. Which I think is certainly not true. Christianity is (and always will be) bigger than politics. No matter who wins the election, Christians put their faith in God instead of the government anyway.

Plus, it goes both ways as far as what party the man at the pulpet endorses. Just ask Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

You are in college, right? I can only imagine what it would be like to read a turn paper of yours.


1. Your never going to pass legislation banning abortion. It's mostly a moral issue. Roe V. Wade will never be overturned. No matter how much conservatives want it to be.

2. How many innocent people died here during 9/11? The numbers don't have to equal eachother. War is war. Soldiers are paid to fight.

3. I don't understand the context of your question. Do you mean via capital punishment?

4. I think your missing the point on this one. The main issue isn't to expand the gap between the rich and the poor, but instead it's to let the rich be entitled to keep the money they earned. Is it the same thing? Sorta, but your interpreting it as if rich people are selfish and greedy. But in reality most wealthy people earned they're lifestyle through hard work and opportunity at a time when they weren't blessed financially. All men are created equal. We all have the same opportunities to be successful if we choose to cease them. If you don't put forth the diligence, sacrafice, and work ethic to do so, than you don't have anybody to blame but yourself. But penalizing the rich and telling them "they make too much money" is just an act of socialism. What if that guy making $250K has 4 or 5 children? Suddenly he doesn't have as much "disposable income" as the government assumes he has. "Spread the wealth around" is what Obama said to Joe the plumber. Why should I have to give my money to the government, just so they can give it to people who didn't earn it? What do I get out of it??

Plus, rich people are the ones who create jobs and start small businesses. I don't know about you, but I never got a job from a poor person. You tax the rich, they cut costs (jobs), everybody loses.



I've never heard any religious leader say that it's a sin to vote Democrat. Since you said you turned your back on religion, I think what your doing is seeing some instances of a minister 'abuse' his platform at the pulpet, and interpreting it as if all pastors/ministers/bishops are that way. Which I think is certainly not true. Christianity is (and always will be) bigger than politics. No matter who wins the election, Christians put their faith in God instead of the government anyway.

Plus, it goes both ways as far as what party the man at the pulpet endorses. Just ask Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

2. How many innocent people died here during 9/11? The numbers don't have to equal eachother. War is war. Soldiers are paid to fight.


In case you missed it, the Iraq-9/11 connect was thoroughly debunked.

You are in college, right?

You are in college, right? I can only imagine what it would be like to read a turn paper of yours.


I don't write my own term papers, www.CustomResearchPapers.us does. It's kind of expensive, but it saves time.

Plus, I'm an accounting major, what the hell type of class would I have to write a term paper for?

I don't write my own term papers, www.CustomResearchPapers.us does. It's kind of expensive, but it saves time.


Is this serious or are you just messing around?

Is this serious or are you just messing around?

Wil has never hidden the fact he cheats.

I'm speechless...

Wow dude. I guess if you compromise your integrity, you compromise your integrity. Nobody can do anything to stop you.

maybe wil does it for humanitarian reasons. also, I think the 'it saves time' may be the best (and least creative) explanation for cheating i've ever heard. interestingly, i read about one of those services and the need to determine the writing level of clients to ensure that the products don't exaggerate actual writing skills.

This helps Obama's safety immeasurably.

See, if Wilfredo Ledezma weren't paying those writers, he and those writers might be out of a job and turn into terrorist assassins. Really, the fate of the world rests on Ledezma's shoulders. In fact, he must continue to be an accounting student or the balance between good and evil will be shattered! Quick, everyone call Walsh College and make sure he doesn't graduate!

<laughs>

ATF disrupts skinhead plot to assassinate Obama

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
12 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Federal agents have broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree, the ATF said Monday.

In court records unsealed Monday, federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the school by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of the Nashville field office for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said the two men planned to shoot 88 black people and decapitate another 14. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The men also sought to go on a national killing spree, with Obama as its final target, Cavanaugh told The Associated Press.

"They said that would be their last, final act — that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

An Obama spokeswoman traveling with the senator in Pennsylvania had no immediate comment.

The men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.

Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment Monday.

Cowart and Schlesselman are charged with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.

The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said.

I swear, if he survives a potential presidency, it will be a miracle.

kennedy was assassinated in an era where it was much easier to get to the president. So its really hard to say.

Skinheads smart enough to assassinate?

I don't think there'll be conspiracies worthy of the Kennedy era but I imagine that there'll be legions of John Hinckley Jr. level nutjobs out there willing to give it a go. Extremely low probability of success but their numbers might make up for that.

Oh, I'm sure Stormfront's planning something.

I'm still pretty much convinced that somebody's going to make a serious run at taking BO out.

I can almost visualize it happening and it's really disturbing.


God willing.

Really? Do you really think your God would will that?

Originally Posted by Glenn
I'm still pretty much convinced that somebody's going to make a serious run at taking BO out.

I wouldn't shed a tear.

Biden wouldn't have a fuck's chance at being re-elected.

I wouldn't shed a tear.

Biden wouldn't have a fuck's chance at being re-elected.

Careful, bitter. If you cling too tightly it can cut off your circulation.

Wow.

"God willing", "Wouldn't shed a tear"



And you guys wonder why there's such a backlash on Repubs right now. It's because outside of the shit 'leadership' they have provided of late, there are asshat comments like that.

Look to Tahoe for guidance.

So much for "Country First".

Scumbags.

Who would Biden appoint as VP if something happened to Obama?

I'd expect they would be running in 2012, not Biden, unless that something happened with the 2012 campaign in full swing.

So much for "Country First".

Scumbags.


Oh, it is country first. The less time we have of an Obama presidency the better for our country.

Oh, it is country first. The less time we have of an Obama presidency the better for our country.

Yeah, because setting back race relations 200 years would be a good thing, right?

You don't need to answer, I think I know where you are coming from.

I think I know where you are coming from.

Hope I'm not reading into that taking that literally.

Oh, it is country first. The less time we have of an Obama presidency the better for our country.
Explain how you putting your opinion of the president ahead of the country as being country first?

And Glenn was wrong to call you and Fredo scumbags. Pussies is more on point. Scumbag is a higher place for the person with the balls to take a shot at Barack rather than sit on the sidelines wishing like a pussy, who's too damn pussy to do anything but wish for something he'd never be the one to do.

Hope I'm not reading into that taking that literally.

lol, no disrespect

Is there a LOL@ Obama thread?
http://kools.ytmnd.com/

Explain how you putting your opinion of the president ahead of the country as being country first?

And Glenn was wrong to call you and Fredo scumbags. Pussies is more on point. Scumbag is a higher place for the person with the balls to take a shot at Barack rather than sit on the sidelines wishing like a pussy, who's too damn pussy to do anything but wish for something he'd never be the one to do.

I, personally, wouldn't kill anyone. Doesn't mean I can't wish for someone else who is less moral than I to do it.

I'm not a pussy, I'm just moral.

I, personally, wouldn't kill anyone. Doesn't mean I can't wish for someone else who is less moral than I to do it.

I'm not a pussy, I'm just moral.
The consensus is, unless you're a wingnut piece of flaming shit, that murder is immoral if not justified. You are not moral if you wish an immoral deed upon someone else.

I, personally, wouldn't kill anyone. Doesn't mean I can't wish for someone else who is less moral than I to do it.

I'm not a pussy, I'm just moral.
yes you are a pussy for wishing for things you can't do. It's not brave, noble, honorable, or respect worthy to wish for things that you dont have the balls to do.


I, personally, wouldn't kill anyone.
Do you wish for somebody everything you see as morally wrong? Or possibly it's an excuse to hide your own pathetic not so patriotic lack of courage.

I, personally, wouldn't kill anyone. Doesn't mean I can't wish for someone else who is less moral than I to do it.

I'm not a pussy, I'm just moral.

I would bet both my nuts you consider yourself a good christian.

I, personally, wouldn't kill anyone. Doesn't mean I can't wish for someone else who is less moral than I to do it.

I'm not a pussy, I'm just moral.



A person who is skilled at well-being,

Who wants to get to that calm state, should act like this:

Able, upright – perfectly upright,

Accepting of criticism, gentle, and not conceited.

Contented with whatever he has, frugal,

Not unnecessarily busy, keeping free of burdens,

With senses restrained, practical,

Not rude, not becoming too attached to families.

He should not do anything at all

That would cause a wise person to blame him;

(He should wish:) May all beings be secure and happy,

May they have happiness in their minds.

Whatever sentient beings exist anywhere,

Whether they are strong or weak, without exception;

Whether they are long, large,

Short, tiny, or huge.

Whether we can see them or not,

Whether they are living far or near.

Whether they have been born or are yet to be born,

May they have happiness in their minds.

Let no one deceive anyone else,

Let no one have hatred toward anyone else.

Let no one want to harm someone,

Because of hatred.

Like a mother would for her family,

Put her life on the line to protect her only child;

Just like that, for all beings,

Let him person cultivate a limitless heart.

Loving-kindness for the whole universe,

Cultivated limitlessly in the heart;

Above, below and across,

Free from oppression, free from enmity, free from hostility.

Whether standing, walking, sitting, or lying down,

As long as he is awake,

He should work at developing this kind of mindfulness,

Because this is the highest way to live in this world.

Not grasping at wrong views,

Being moral and having insight;

Conquering the desire for sense pleasures,

He will not be reborn again.

What I've quoted above is probably the single most important thing I've ever heard. It has been taught painstakingly to me by incredibly moral people. It's called the Karaniya Metta Sutta.

What it means is this: if you're interested in finding a genuine peace of mind, the way to do that is by purifying yourself of negative, selfish thoughts. The Buddhist and the Christian have this much in common: both are not concerned so much with laws and behaviors. They are concerned with hearts and thoughts. In the Christian worldview, the pure heart wins the grace of God. In the Buddhist worldview, the pure heart is God - or more accurately, a distilled essence of what people say God is. Gotama Buddha and Jesus both insist that our thoughts and desires are our primary roadblocks to spiritual growth. Gotama Buddha and Jesus are cousins, philosophically, and I think their followers should think of each other that way too.

Another thing that's really important to me: a Buddhist philosophical concept called samma vayama. It means "ideal volition" and it means immersing yourself in good habits and influences. I have been very much neglecting this aspect of my path. So I'm going to try to stay out of this subforum from now on, and I'm going to try to be the kind of person in whom a wise person could not find blame.

I sincerely wish that you all have a good election night, no matter what you believe, no matter who you favor. I just can't be around all the anger. It's bad for me.

Tennessee man pleads guilty to plotting to kill Barack Obama, dozens of other black people in 2008 - AP