In a potentially stunning move that reflects the growing challenge Europe’s basketball leagues pose to the NBA, Atlanta Hawks free-agent forward Josh Childress is strongly considering a three-year, $20 million offer from Greek powerhouse Olympiakos, several league sources said Sunday night.

Childress flew to Greece late Sunday and is scheduled to meet with Olympiakos officials on Monday. Childress, 25, is so flustered with the Hawks’ refusal to make a sign-and-trade deal to another team, one source familiar with his thinking believes there’s “better than a 50-50 chance” he’ll sign with Olympiakos.

Atlanta is fucked. Screwing both Josh's... I'd almost hate to be a fan of theirs more than I would be of Phoenix.

wow. that would really be something. i was reading somewhere else how big a problem the strength of the euro is. (plus the fact they don't pay taxes on those salaries)

they were saying, for example, that a contract of 3 million euro per year, once you do the exchange to $ AND consider the lack of taxing.....it's more like $9 million a year!

i think this is just to stir other teams up in maknig him an offer. no way he bolts to europe

i think this is just to stir other teams up in maknig him an offer. no way he bolts to europe
If what HW said is true, he would be earning around 20mil a year tax free. That's definitely something to ponder over.

Europe being a realistic option for free agents (especially restricted) gives the players a lot more leverage to force sign & trades, IMO.

If what HW said is true, he would be earning around 20mil a year tax free. That's definitely something to ponder over.

it isn't.

3 million Euro is about 4.75 million American. Its stronger but not that much stronger.

Mxy owns.

wow. that would really be something. i was reading somewhere else how big a problem the strength of the euro is. (plus the fact they don't pay taxes on those salaries)

they were saying, for example, that a contract of 3 million euro per year, once you do the exchange to $ AND consider the lack of taxing.....it's more like $9 million a year!

I don't know about Greece, but from everything I've ever seen or been told, in Spain, Italy and Germany they pay taxes on that money. It is often that what is negotiated is net and not gross, or at least it is very common to report it as net. But even then they call it net to differentiate what the player is really going to receive versus the actual euro amount the team is paying out.

it isn't.

3 million Euro is about 4.75 million American. Its stronger but not that much stronger.

4.75 million here is 2.4 million taken home after taxes and it could be even more.

If their 3 mil is not taxed and it's worth 4.75 american, someone here would have to make 8.5 million or so to match what he's making. Also, in Europe, they don't have to pay for transporation or living costs. Money wise, it's a helluva deal. The culture shock on the other hand, can be pretty rough.

"The NBA had better be careful," Nachbar said. "European teams are offering a lot of money. It's much more, considering there are no taxes

This is really sounding like it's going to happen.

He gone.


Report: Ex-Hawk Childress signs with Greek club team
ESPN.com news services
Updated: July 23, 2008, 10:17 AM ET

Former Atlanta Hawks swingman Josh Childress is leaving the NBA for Europe.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported on its Web site that Childress, a restricted free agent, has signed a three-year contract with Olympiakos of Greece.

Yahoo.com reported on Monday that Childress, who averaged 11.8 points and 4.9 rebounds last season, had an offer on the table from Olympiakos for more than $20 million over three years. But Hawks general manager Rick Sund told the AJC on Monday that the four-year pro was just exploring his options.

The newspaper reported Monday the Hawks had a deal on the table worth nearly $36 million, with a first-year salary in excess of the mid-level exception of $5.6 million.

While the Hawks could match any offer from another NBA team for Childress, they do not have the ability to match an offer from a European team.

That's got to be the first time a U.S. born player has turned down a big money NBA contract to go play in Europe. Foreign players have definitely done it before, and I'm sure some American scrub/end of bench types have done it before, but he's a 6th man/starter caliber player.

Now they retain his rights if he ever tries to come back to the NBA right? Like with us and Alex Acker, because he was a restricted free agent and they offered him the qualifying offer.

Well, that's the thing, he already has a contract with Atlanta that runs out in 2009.

I'm pretty sure he'll be unrestricted next year. Atlanta will still have his bird right, but that's it.

I thought Childress was restricted right now. That means he doesn't have a contract with them at all but they did extend the qualifying offer. Maybe I'm not fully understanding what you mean though.

yeah, but he loses his restricted status after one full year.

yeah, but he loses his restricted status after one full year.

I think he has to sit out a full year period (can't play in other leagues, either) in order for the Hawks to lose his rights.

I think he has to sit out a full year period (can't play in other leagues, either) in order for the Hawks to lose his rights.
I don't know that playing overseas affects that.

If not playing in the NBA a year revokes the teams rights, why do we still have the rights to Acker?

^bingo

If you don't play professionally for one year, restricteds become unrestricted.

That's what I was thinking, too, Glenn. I wonder when the last time someone was a restricted free agent and took an entire year off was.

the hawks offered him more money but it was over more years i would imagine. this way, he is only tied down for 3 years and still makes a lot of money.

all this hinges on him being able to play in greece though which apparently he's prepared to do. it's a good league but it's not the nba. interesting move on his part.

Apparently he thoroughly does not want to play for the Hawks. Josh Smith doesn't want to be there either. Poor team culture down in Atlanta.

Childress has opt outs after each year in his Olympikos contract, I believe.

That means the Hawks will have more opportunities to bring him back to the NBA if they want to make him a better offer or they can even broker a S&T for him.

I wouldn't be surprised if he left because he didn't like the look of the market and he decided to go put up some big numbers in Europe and give it another try next year when more teams might be interested or have more salary flexibility.

That's what I was thinking, too, Glenn. I wonder when the last time someone was a restricted free agent and took an entire year off was.

Varejao made it 2/3 of the way last year.

Does anyone think that this might lead to the abandonment of the BYC provision of the CBA?

Instead of going to Europe, I'd rather sign a 1-year deal with a team here and tack a player option for another year on it, although if he doesn't want to be in Atlanta then he'd be worried they'd match.

He could have played for the Hawks for the 1 year qualifying offer of $4.8m and then been unrestricted.

I haven't done the math yet, and I don't know if I would even do it right, but does this open up cap space for Atlanta or are they still over the cap?

If they go under the cap, they'll lose their MLE, right? They'd have to lose Smith for nothing to be in danger of that, though.

This probably means more $ for Josh Smith, so I doubt that he'll be going anywhere now.

Does anyone think that this might lead to the abandonment of the BYC provision of the CBA?

IMO, they should go to arbitration for the amount of the qualifying offer. That would fix a lot of things.

That's a solid idea, although arbitration can be an ugly process.

Couldn't be any uglier than the current process.

Maybe, but the dynamic would change.

Right now they can blame the BYC on the union and the league (since they both collectively bargained the CBA) but with arbitration, they'll have to look their players in the face and say disparaging things about them to drive the price down.

Why do they even have the BYC in there? I don't understand what good it does.

Btw, if my math is correct, it looks like they are about $3.6m over the cap right now (based on Storytellers salary #'s). That includes the current $6.7m cap hold for Josh Smith.

So if they let Smith go (decline to match an offer sheet) they'd be a little over $3m under the cap, which would actually be a bad thing since they couldn't use the MLE anymore which is worth $5.5m+

Kinda moot, since they will not let Smith go for nothing, they'll either sign him outright, match an offer sheet for him or S&T him.

Why do they even have the BYC in there? I don't understand what good it does.

BYC prevents teams from signing players they don't want for one year, simply for the purpose of shopping them around.

That rule should be changed. If you're under the cap an amount less than the MLE, you should be allowed to go over it enough to give you equally bidding. Like, if a team over the cap wants to sign a player for $5.5m, the Hawks should be able to use their $3m under the cap plus an extra $2.5m version of the MLE, to keep things even.

except the danger of just playing on a 1 year deal is that you could possibly suffer an injury that could end your career. or an injury could hurt your value when entering the market after that 1 year.

players do gamble by playing on 1 year deals and hope to 'cash in' in URFA after that year. but it is a risk you take....and in many cases they prefer the security of a deal with multiple years. it's up to them to decide how long they want to be 'tied down' too though.

That's the reason for the player option on a second year. That way, if he has an injury he can stay an extra year to prove he's healthy or to make more money if he's not. Its only a year shorter than his deal in Greece, which is all player options.

"The NBA had better be careful," Nachbar said. "European teams are offering a lot of money. It's much more, considering there are no taxes

It wouldn't be the first time (in the last hour) that I've been wrong, but I do know for a fact that soccer players, wherever they're from, pay taxes on their money. And I know for a fact that Navarro going back to Barcelona is paying taxes on his money (it was discussed quite a bit the money Barça is paying him and during the debate you were constantly reminded to add the total value of his salary, not just the net payment). And I know for a fact that any US resident in Europe has to pay taxes on his moeny in Europe AND declare his taxes to the US government. Could it be different for basketball players? I have no idea.

Its probably that the money they announce is net payment after taxes, it seems to make the most sense and multiple people have alluded to it. There's no way they're not paying any taxes though.

:hollinger:


Childress' move to Greece hurts Hawks on many levels

By John Hollinger
ESPN Insider

After the Hawks came back to beat the Lakers in a late-season game last spring, one of the team's myriad owners sidled up to a fellow reporter, beaming, and said, "We have arrived."

It appears it was a brief stay.

The departure of Josh Childress to Greek squad Olympiakos, first reported by Sekou Smith in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, is a crushing blow to the franchise on multiple levels. First and foremost, obviously, it deprives them of one of the best sixth men in the game, a guy who could make a huge impact without needing any plays run for him because of his ability to attack the glass, score in transition and play off the ball.

It also leaves them scrambling to fill out the roster, with most of the offseason's top free agents already claimed by other teams. Atlanta has only eight players under contract at the moment, and two of them (oft-injured Speedy Claxton and oft-inactivated Solomon Jones) barely count. Even if the team can re-sign Josh Smith, the Hawks are still paper thin.

But the real damage here isn't immediately visible. Nothing could do more to perpetuate the Hawks' standing as one of the league's worst-run organizations than to have a player they desperately wanted to keep bolt for another continent. The stink from that will linger long into the future, affecting other free agents' decisions to join the Hawks and/or remain with them, until there comes a time when the organization can prove it has its act together.

That day seems a long way off. Look, good organizations just don't screw up like this. They stay in touch with free agents -- they make sure the player knows he's wanted and it's just a question of finding the price, and they lay the groundwork far ahead of time by operating in a first-class manner.

On that level, the fact that Childress didn't think twice about leaving -- and that Josh Smith seemingly would gladly pack his bags too -- speaks volumes about the management. So does the fact that Atlanta is among NBA players' favorite cities to visit, and yet nobody wants to play here.

And it's not like Childress woke up on July 1 with a craving for tzatziki and an iPod full of Yanni tunes. He's a smart, cultured guy and he'll do fine over there, but going abroad wasn't his most preferred option. He was pushed into this position when the Hawks first didn't extend him a year ago, and then followed that up by not making a strong enough initial offer to him in free agency.

Atlanta essentially overplayed its hand, thinking that Childress, as a restricted free agent, didn't have any other options but to take the Hawks' offer for a bit above the midlevel exception. But Childress and agent Lon Babby recognized that the increased power of the euro has made going overseas a real option for all but the most expensive of the league's players, and found a way around restricted free agency by signing a lucrative three-year deal in Greece -- one that has opt-outs after each season that could allow him to return to the NBA.

By screwing this up, the Hawks also popped their own balloon from the seven-game run against Boston in the first-round of the playoffs. That series featured a shocking sight -- an incredibly loud, involved, borderline intimidating Philips Arena crowd that gave the Hawks their first legitimate home-court advantage in ages.

In that series, it appeared the team had finally turned the corner in reaching what had been a notoriously apathetic fan base. Losing Childress deflates much of the enthusiasm from that run, especially since the Hawks have signed exactly zero players in free agency thus far. One wonders if the team even had a contingency plan in place in the event that Childress left, or if it's a fire drill over at Centennial Tower today.

Obviously, this signing has implications beyond the Hawks. Already this summer we've seen Juan Carlos Navarro, Tiago Splitter, Bostjan Nachbar, Pops Mensah-Bonsu, Loren Woods, Primoz Brezec and Carlos Delfino say no thanks to the NBA because they got better money from a team overseas; by the end of the summer we may be saying the same about several others.

The only difference in Childress' case is that he's American and his deal was for even more money than the others (Nachbar also got some major dough, incidentally). So Childress may become a pioneer in terms of restricted free agents working around the system.

So in the long term, then, the big winner in this development likely will be future restricted free agents. In the short term, perhaps the winner is Josh Smith. With the Hawks still wiping the mud off their faces, they're certainly more motivated to reach a deal with him fairly quickly and get some good news out there. And if his agent starts throwing around hints that teams in Europe are willing to meet Smith's price, the Hawks are likely to take the threat much more seriously than they did with Childress.

And while there are ways for the Hawks to try to undo some of the damage from this -- such as making a run at former local high school star and restricted free agent Louis Williams -- nothing in their track record says they're capable of pulling it off. That Childress so improbably slipped from their grasp only cements that impression.

After reading that it has me wondering, if we can work around the BYC issues, could we swing a possible deal for Smith that sends one starter (Tay) and 2 of our bench players to Atlanta?

They need players and depth, we want to trade our depth for a star.

Could there be a match there?

You might be on to something there. It makes sense, but we are talking about the Hawks.

After reading that it has me wondering, if we can work around the BYC issues, could we swing a possible deal for Smith that sends one starter (Tay) and 2 of our bench players to Atlanta?

They need players and depth, we want to trade our depth for a star.

Could there be a match there?
Well, it has to be Tay as the starter. What two bench players are you sending. Obviously Max or Amir would be one of them. Who else do we have to send? They'd likely want a backup wing, which we don't have.

I suppose sending Amir/Max allows them to start him in place of Smith and send Marvin or Tay to the bench.

Maybe they'd take Afflalo as the other player. He can play some SF (limited, very limited amount), then they've got Marvin backing up Tay. Why would they need another swing man with Marvin backing up Tay? Although who is starting at SG for them?

Although who is starting at SG for them?

Some guy named Joe Johnson.

i think this makes it almost a lock that they keep smith at all costs. and personally i don't think i'd give up a starter and a key bench player for him anyway, even with how good he is.

he's not a superstar by any stretch of the imagination so i think giving up more than a starter for him would be too costly. JMO

Maybe they'd take Afflalo as the other player. He can play some SF (limited, very limited amount), then they've got Marvin backing up Tay. Why would they need another swing man with Marvin backing up Tay? Although who is starting at SG for them?
That's why I said I suppose Max would start and Marvin would become the 6th man. They don't really have a backup SG so I'm sure Tay/Max/AA for Smith/Pachulia is about the best we could offer them.

I wonder if we could sign Gomes with the MLE:

PG Billups/Stuckey
SG RIP/Stuckey
SF Gomes/Smith
PF Smith/Amir
C Sheed/Dyess

Diabolical Scheme for a Deep-Pocketed Owner

July 24, 2008 3:33 PM

Josh Childress's new deal has my e-mail inbox going crazy with all kinds of new thoughts about, essentially, the globalization of the market for NBA-level players.

I just updated an earlier post with some very interesting news about player transfers, including the news that in at least one instance in the past, an NBA team made a trade with a European team. Really.

And then, consider this from the fiendishly clever mind of TrueHoop reader Ben:


After reading about Childress going to Greece, it occurred to me that an ambitious owner could reap some serious benefits from owning both an NBA team and a profitable Euro team. [Note: I think most European teams are not profitable in and of themselves, but may serve some larger purpose like promoting the other work of their corporate parents, spreading goodwill etc.]

With regard to the Childress situation, an owner who needs that type of player but who is unable to free up enough cap space to sign him could have theoretically locked him up for the next three years, and then when cap space, roster room, etc. was available, brought Childress back to the NBA. ... Owning a Euro franchise seems like it could give a team some major advantages in these types of situations, not to mention the bonus of being able to use it as a farm team.

It's probably a very expensive proposition. But it comes without all the restrictions of a D-League squad.

Another idea that occurs to me: Nike or Adidas could do the same thing. Those companies want to make big impressions on young athletes. What could be better than giving them a nice job and some elite training on their elite European team right out of high school? Then they can send them off to the NBA when they are ready to be famous.

Childress' "cap hold" remains on their books until they renounce him - to the tune of $10.9 million.

Wow, I haven't seen this reported anywhere yet. I hadn't even considered that aspect, that's a killer.