annual tradition, have at it

Pistons trade Walter Hermann to the Heat for the #2 pick. Pistons take Darko Milicic with the #2 pick. Darko is "excite be Piston agin."

Or are you looking for realism?

#32 - CDR

#46 - Hardin

#59 foreign big

or

#32 - Chalmers

#46 - Walker

#59 foreign big

#32 Jordan
#46 Walker
#59 Me

#32 Chalmers
#46 Walker
#59 CJ Giles

#32 - Chalmers
#34 - Jordan (Since Minny doesn't want this pick and they owe us one, I'd give them our #59 to let us move up a year)
#46 - Sharpe

So besides the people that have posted here, you guys are all happy with the Pistons picks then?

That makes me feel a bit better, I suppose.

I wanted CDR, who was available to us like twice. Other than getting him, I am fine with the other two.

What I wanted is moot. I judged based on seeing these guys 1-5 times then reading draft sites. I didn't want Tay, Max, Stuck.

Joe>Me (and I bet you).

So besides the people that have posted here, you guys are all happy with the Pistons picks then?

That makes me feel a bit better, I suppose.

I just know nothing about who we took and who we didn't take. The guys at work asked what I thought about our pick and I pointed out that the 32nd pick isn't cracking our rotation next year so I didn't really care.

What I wanted is moot. I judged based on seeing these guys 1-5 times then reading draft sites. I didn't want Tay, Max, Stuck.

Joe>Me (and I bet you).

Perfectly said. As much crap as Joe has gotten for the Darko pick, he really has drafted pretty well. The way I see it, who the hell are the Pistons going to get at #29? The chances of any of those people panning out after the #7 or 8 pick for any draft are very low. Go look at all the previous drafts. And who are the Pistons going to draft to break into the rotation? No one.

So I guess my point is: Who cares. I'll worry when we get the #2 pick again.

Joe knows more than we do, so why bother?

Well, that line of thinking could apply to about 50% of all the discussions here, lol.

It looks like I've gotten carried away here, maybe I'll give myself the weekend off.

It looks like I've gotten carried away here, maybe I'll give myself the weekend off.

Please don't, you're on a roll.

Perfectly said. As much crap as Joe has gotten for the Darko pick, he really has drafted pretty well. The way I see it, who the hell are the Pistons going to get at #29? The chances of any of those people panning out after the #7 or 8 pick for any draft are very low. Go look at all the previous drafts. And who are the Pistons going to draft to break into the rotation? No one.

So I guess my point is: Who cares. I'll worry when we get the #2 pick again.

I disagree that Joe has drafted well. His choices have in total been mediocre at best.

Prince
Stuckey
Maxiell
Amir
Okur
Afflalo

Have all been great selections

Cleeves
White
Darko
Meija
Paulding
etc.

Have all sucked

Joe has found some gems and found some busts. Only time will tell how this year's draft turns out but so far it looks shakey. With his success at finding gems later in the draft I will give him a pass........for now.

I'd say he has a pretty decent track record, especially in recent years. That shows improvement to me and at some point we have to forgive the fuckin' guy for Darko. At least he turned him into Stuckey for God's sake.

And Mejia and Paulding cannot be considered bad picks at the 57th and 54th picks. Seriously, how many guys are going to be useful at that point?

Paulding and Mejia weren't meant to be 'gems' when they we're drafted...so blaming Joe for drafting both of those guys is senseless...

The Paudling pick was a product of a weak draft class, and the Mejia pick was just to get another summer league body since we already had two first round picks and it wasn't worth allocating another roster spot to a fringe nba player...

I'm not blaming Joe for Paulding and Mejia but I felt that if I included Okur and Amir as late 2nd round gems, I had to be fair and include a couple of 2nd late round rejects. Nobody expects much from those spots but blowing 3 top 15 picks still makes Joe's track record a little shakey.

Cleaves, Darko and White sucked. No defense to it, but Dumars has had as many good picks outside of the lottery as any GM in the NBA.

I'm not blaming Joe for Paulding and Mejia but I felt that if I included Okur and Amir as late 2nd round gems, I had to be fair and include a couple of 2nd late round rejects. Nobody expects much from those spots but blowing 3 top 15 picks still makes Joe's track record a little shakey.


You get credit for 2nd round gems. You don't get blamed for 2nd round busts, because thats what most 2nd rounders ARE.

Cleaves, Darko and White sucked. No defense to it, but Dumars has had as many good picks outside of the lottery as any GM in the NBA.

Agree. And I don't even really blame him for Darko or White. They were both hyped like crazy. He should get a slap on the wrist for buying the hype, but I think a lot of GMs would have drafted them.

Cleaves was a dumb pick, though.

Cleaves, Darko and White sucked. No defense to it, but Dumars has had as many good picks outside of the lottery as any GM in the NBA.
Cleaves and Darko are one thing, but Rodney White's still making news:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=mozclient&u=http%3A//www.primerahora.com/noticia/baloncesto/accion_deportiva/white_agredio_a_reyes/205148


Carolina .- The strengthening of the Captains of Arecibo, Rodney White could be out of the seventh game of the final series after allegedly assaulted the player the Giants Carolina Angelo Reyes, then finishing the match last night.

wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Sharpe was the only draft prospect brought in for a second workout/interview? i wonder why Sharpe wasn't on everyone's radar pre-draft because of that fact.

Joe knows more than we do, so why bother?

Well, that line of thinking could apply to about 50% of all the discussions here, lol.


Actually more like 80%. Maybe we should just shut down all conversations about our opinions:

draft picks
trades
free agent signings


In each case Joe knows better, so why bother talking about it?

Actually more like 80%. Maybe we should just shut down all conversations about our opinions:

draft picks
trades
free agent signings


In each case Joe knows better, so why bother talking about it?

It's fine to talk about it, it's stupid to talk about it as if we know better.

I'm fine with refraining from making final decisions on acquisitions we know absolutely nothing about.

I think all they're saying is they've been wrong in the past to complain about picks (Tayshaun, Maxiel and Stuckey) before seeing what we actually got, so they're more apt to take a wait-and-see approach this time around.

I'm the same way. Would I have taken Narko? No. But I wouldn't have taken Tay or Max either, so I'll shut up and see what the guy offers before getting too mad.

some of us wanted CDR, but sounds like he didn't want us
(sorry if already posted elsewhere)


Chris Douglas-Roberts likely had no interest in playing for the Pistons
Posted by Justin Rogers | MLive.com June 28, 2008 13:19PM

Former Memphis forward Chris Douglas-Roberts was passed up by the Piston's in the NBA draft and eventually went to New Jersey at #40.Plenty of fans are still a little confused about the Pistons' draft-day strategy, especially regarding the selection of Walter Sharpe. Looking back at the polls from MLive.com's NBA Draft chat, the fan favorite selection at pick 29 was Memphis small forward, and Detroit native, Chris Douglas-Roberts. Well, details are now emerging that Douglas-Roberts didn't want to play for the Pistons.

Below is an excerpt from Matt Dery's blog over at WDFN.com:

June 28, WDFN.com:Shep filled in for Jamie yesterday on the WDFN morning show and one of the callers said that he was at CDR's house on draft night. CDR told everyone there (according to this mystery caller) that he did not feel he fit with Detroit and had no interest in being a Piston and wanted to go to a team that ran more. I was working that morning and heard this exchange and I decided to do a little research.

It turns out that the caller (CDR's friend) was right on the money. Douglas-Roberts believed that there was no way he would drop to #29 and likely felt like it was an insult to even believe that he would be available to play for a team like Detroit drafting that low. I talked to someone who knows CDR and he told me that Douglas-Roberts thought he was a top 20 lock. In addition, the Pistons did call CDR's people and offered to work him out. There was no workout. He did not come to the Palace. Now you know the story and the kid ended up going to New Jersey at #40.

Well, that explains why Joe D didn't pick CDR. That still doesn't explain Chalmers, Jordan, Hardin, Tomic, or Walker. I understand the agreements to play overseas but the Pistons passed on a lot of talent.

Should Joe D be fired?

Joe D didn't want CDR because he has a neck tattoo.

Actually, while I don't know CDR, it sounds like he's a bit of a bitch. I've heard Joe did not like him AT ALL, and I'm not sure if it's because Joe thinks his shot is broke beyond fixing and he's not good enough to contribute steadily as a slasher at this level, maybe he let on about that enough that CDR was pissed, who knows. Either way bas fit and glad that was know (by powers-that-be) beforehand and not after the fact.

Well, after reading that, I officially rescind my desire for CDR. You should only be so lucky to play for a franchise like ours, biotch.

(the biotch was extra important to that sentiment).

Well, that explains why Joe D didn't pick CDR. That still doesn't explain Chalmers, Jordan, Hardin, Tomic, or Walker. I understand the agreements to play overseas but the Pistons passed on a lot of talent.

None of those guys have any great talent.

Chalmers is the only guy there that will probably play in the NBA next season, and the pistons do not need a 3rd point guard.

Bill Walker has the knees of a 45-year old.

Jordan was the biggest waste of size and athleticism I've ever seen in the history of college basketball. He has the basketball IQ of a raisin. He has nowhere near the natural instincts of even Amir Johnson at the same age.

Tomic and Hardin are both soft as charmin tissue.

Walter Sharpe has as much NBA potential as any of those guys, if not more.

I still would have taken CDR.

Then I would trade him to the Clippers.

From what I've heard, CDR had the worst pre-draft camp in history. He had trouble with even basic dribbling.

Must have been the neck tat.

I would have taken Jordan. Even if he didn't pan out you used a 2nd rounder on him. No huge loss. CDR didn't want to play here anyway. Chalmers would have been a great pick too (would allow you to move RIP or Billups with Sheed for a better big).

Joe knows more than we do, so why bother?

Well, that line of thinking could apply to about 50% of all the discussions here, lol.


Sorry it took so long for me to respond to this:

The draft is unlike any other topic we have here. The draft has 60 players, most of which we've never seen before, and if we have, it's for a couple of minutes. And it's very common for a good to great college basketball player to be a shitty pro. I've often thought a player should be drafted in the top 10 after watching them in college, just to watch them go in the second round or not go at all.

Everything we base our decisions off is who we hear the analysts say is the best fit for the Pistons. And analysts are just as stupid as we are. The only ones who really know what to look for is NBA scouts, because that's what they do. So when we ask "Who do you want the Pistons to draft?", my answer will always be "Whoever Joe wants."

We can comment about everything else around the league because we're comparing apples to apples:
-NBA Free Agents play against NBA level talent so we know what they are.
-Poor coaching decisions/rotations can be critisized because we know what good coaching decisions/rotations look like.
-Coaches can be chosen by a philosophy we've seen.
-etc.

NCAA talent to NBA talent is comparing apples to oranges. We just never know. And if you think you do have some sort of formula, you should be working with Joe. That's why when the draft rolls around, you'll only hear me comment on what position I think we need, because I have no idea what player is the best.

It was just supposed to be fun.

That's it, I'm going emo.

It was just supposed to be fun.

That's it, I'm going emo.


U suck

U suck

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/8/6/30/f_emokidm_9f933ff.jpg

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/8/6/30/f_emokidm_9f933ff.jpg

That pic is great.

Ryan (Tempe, Az): With Mario Chalmers turning heads in summer league, what are the chances he is the Heats starting point guard this season?

Chad Ford: I think Riley will hesitate to start two rookies, but frankly, I think Chalmers is a starting caliber point guard. He was ranked No. 17 on our big board on draft night and may have been a few spots to low. I'm not sure what GMs were thinking in the second half of the draft.

bump

Mo's Lion draft re-do thread made me look for this.

So everyone is happy we traded our 2008 1st for 2 second rounders and proceeded to get ZERO rotation players or any player that might log reasonable minutes in any game this fucking century?

Why not draft Chalmers instead of trading the pick?

The fact that we got NOTHING out of that first rounder is a serious problem IMO. If they didn't want to draft any young guy then at least try to swing a deal with Portland or something and get a player that MIGHT one day in the distant future actually log reasonable minutes.

And I don't believe this bullshit that only the NBA scouts know shit, Mo.

Sight unseen I picked Roger Mason Jr as a capable NBA player. Sight unseen I wanted Monta Ellis and not Maxiell.

I will admit I didn't want Tay - I think I wanted Dickau or Frank Williams because we had Cleaves (another shitty pick) and Chucky at PG. Joe was apparently high on Williams too, so naturally I was convinced.

Everyone would have drafted Darko - the hype was huge and so was he. IF everyone thought he was just as talented as Melo then you have to take the big man. You build franchises around quality bigs. Quality swingmen are a dime a dozen.

My problem with the Darko pick (and it seems I have failed to type it in the right way so that people can see my POV) is that our scouts SHOULD have seen through the hype. This is what they do - they scout players from all around the world and have to see past the bullshit and find the real player.

We failed to do that with Darko. Now, if that was a weak Draft we really wouldn't be talking about it today...

But that fucking Draft was as deep as the ocean. You had Melo, Bosh, Wade and even Kaman and Hinrich (and I'm sure I left out some).

We didn't miss the boat - we missed the fucking ocean. We got NOTHING out of the deepest Draft in the last 5 years. NOTHING!

That tells me our scouts have no more skill at picking players than we do. They re-inforced this belief the day they drafted Maxiell and Ellis proceeded to blow up as a rookie. As time has passed on Maxiell's Draft Class it has become even more apparent that our scouts have no more idea than you, me or Glenn does.

Throw names out there and see how you go - come back in 3 years and I wouldn't be surprised if half the board picked better fucking players than our scouts.

where's the coaching hire re-do thread?

So everyone is happy we traded our 2008 1st for 2 second rounders and proceeded to get ZERO rotation players or any player that might log reasonable minutes in any game this fucking century?
Given the contract benefits, I don't understand why anyone trades a 1st round pick for 2nd rounders, or worse yet, sells the pick for cash like Phoenix did.

I understand the financial benefits of trading the 1st.

I just don't understand how we can use 2 picks and still not find 1 guy that we can use. Sharpe is likely to never play reasonable minutes in the NBA.

We should have drafted Chalmers - there is nothing else anyone can say. The arguement that we had Bynum waiting in the wings as our back-up PG just strengthens the reason to draft Chalmers, as Bynum was a huge fucking question mark at the time.

I can not believe that normally intelligent people give the franchise a free pass every draft day, when it's painfully obvious they have missed a ton of quality players.

The fact that other teams missed them too doesn't mean shit. I don't care if Dallas has shit scouts - that's not my problem.

I understand the financial benefits of trading the 1st.
Clue me in, 'cause I don't.

The value with the pick is the ability to limit the salary of a decent player for more years than we would otherwise, and the risk is so little with guaranteed money down to two years. The worst case is that the player doesn't work out and you have an expiring the following year. Second rounders are gonna want to get paid sooner if they're any good, and the veteran's minimum makes it pointless for them to be offered or take long-term limited contracts.

I'm not sure the benefits of non-guaranteed money in the 2nd round makes up for situations like Arenas and Memo (where not having bird rights causes them to leave for pay days). If you hit on your 2nd rounder you can be screwed. If you miss on your late first you don't lose that much money really.

I'd rather keep the first and get the better player than take two fliers in the 2nd.

Trading the first in our situation got us 2 picks that should have produced more than it did.

We could have drafted Chalmers, given him a 3 year deal (team option on the 3rd season) and drafted anyone with the other 2nd and given them the same deal.

If we had reasonable scouts we would have essentially got a 1st round talent cheaper and got a warm big body for fouls. The combined salary of both would be less than our 1st rounder.

It doesn't matter though - our scouts are useless

Chalmers goes to Europe with that kind of deal, as would a lot of other players, unless you pay a premium up front. Even if he were to accept it without a premium up front, if he turned out to be good, we would pay a premium by year 4 over what you'd pay him if he were a late 1st rounder.

As a "keeper" 2nd rounder, his salary would be:
min salary y1 + y2 + y3 + MLE y4 = $8 million or so (guessing the future MLE)

As a "keeper" 1st rounder, it'd go like so:
late first round pick salary for 4 years = $5 million or so (late = mid-20s+)

But the benefit being, on the late 1st rounder you're still stuck with that salary in year 4, with the 2nd rounder, if you gave him that deal you'd have a team option in year 3 meaning if he's not panning out after 2 years you can just dump him.

But the benefit being, on the late 1st rounder you're still stuck with that salary in year 4, with the 2nd rounder, if you gave him that deal you'd have a team option in year 3 meaning if he's not panning out after 2 years you can just dump him.

Or they pan out and you cannot resign them (Okur and Arenas)

They've changed the rules since then, I believe. Or so I thought, because of those guys getting to go wherever they wanted without their teams having a shot to keep them.

But the benefit being, on the late 1st rounder you're still stuck with that salary in year 4, with the 2nd rounder, if you gave him that deal you'd have a team option in year 3 meaning if he's not panning out after 2 years you can just dump him.
The new 1st round rules make that true for 1st round picks as well.