Some are saying that Joe will split the MLE up again, and with only 10 guys under contract, he might need to.

Who do you guys think he'll be looking at?

Of course, we don't know what he's going to do trade-wise, which affects these decisions.

We still have the BAE to use this year too, right? (lux tax concerns, of course)

Some of these guys are garbage and would only require the BAE.

Some unrestricted possibilities
Chris Duhon (Joe's always liked him, and if Lindsey is done...)
Earl Boykins
Devean George
Ty Lue (he's friendly with a lot of our guys, apparently)
Eduardo Najera (I've always liked him, versatile, works hard)
Matt Barnes
Patrick O'Bryant
Mickael Pietrus
Dan Dickau
Quinton Ross
Kwame Brown (lol)
Ricky Davis
Jason Williams
DeSagana Diop (probably too similar to Samb)
Bostjan Nachbar
Jannero Pargo
Bonzi Wells (full circle)
Carlos Arroyo (j/k)
Keyon Dooling
Adonal Foyle (no thanks)
Kevin Ollie
Brian Skinner
Beno Udrih (it would take the full MLE)
Anthony Johnson
Lorenzen Wright
Kurt Thomas (probably the full MLE)
Francisco Elson (well, he's tall)
Primoz Brezec (hay, he said that he wanted to retire a Piston!)
Roger Mason

I was thinking that they may have used the BAE on Jarvis, but in looking back, he got a portion of the MLE (per KLJ).

I think it's stupid to split it (based on our current squad). We've had no luck with that. However, if we draft a wing like Walker I would split it because the players would probably be 3rd string anyway.

my comments in bold:


Some unrestricted possibilities
Chris Duhon if price is right as 3rd PG
Earl Boykins if price is right as 3rd PG
Devean George no, another player to stand at 3 pt line
Ty Lue if price is right as 3rd PG
Eduardo Najera no, unless Max is moved
Matt Barnes yes if we draft a big
Patrick O'Bryant no thanks
Mickael Pietrus yes if we draft a big
Dan Dickau no thanks
Quinton Ross maybe, not high on my list
Kwame Brown not type of 'character' we need
Ricky Davis not type of 'character' we need
Jason Williams no thanks
DeSagana Diop he'll get more money & PT somewhere
Bostjan Nachbar no, another player to stand at 3 pt line
Jannero Pargo maybe, not high on my list
Bonzi Wells yes if we draft a big
Keyon Dooling maybe, not high on my list
Adonal Foyle no thanks
Kevin Ollie no thanks
Brian Skinner no thanks
Beno Udrih not for full MLE
Anthony Johnson maybe, not high on my list
Lorenzen Wright not for full MLE
Kurt Thomas not for full MLE
Francisco Elson not for full MLE
Roger Mason no thanks

i have a feeling pietrus would be high on our list. but not if we're splitting the MLE. yeah obviously the draft and more importantly, what we do in the trade market will greatly affect what direction we take in FA.


a case could be made for duhon and wells especially too. a kid like gerald green- who i believe is also a UFA- would be a great guy to split the MLE with. he's still really young and has a ton of talent. he's a good scorer and someone who i think could still blossom into a damn good player.

I like the idea of splitting the MLE between Duhon and someone else, maybe Barnes.

This would be a nice perimeter rotation:

PG: Billups/Duhon
SG: Rip/Stuckey/Afflalo
SF: Tay/Barnes/#29 (Walker?)

Duhon's a good playmaker and a + defender

I doubt that Duhon would get backup PG minutes over our "star of the future" Stuckey (not necessarily saying I agree or disagree with that notion). Wouldn't Duhon be a waste if we still have the three main guards from last year? If Billups goes, then Duhon becomes a good pickup, IMO. He'd probably be easy to get, too, considering he didn't play much last year. If the Bulls select Rose, which I think they will, then Duhon has no chance of being re-signed.

I like Barnes behind Tayshaun. I'm not sure if he's a "Piston" though.

Side note: Anyone else hate this week of near complete inactivity in the NBA world?

That would be nice, but we also need a backup center unless Samb is ready. Barnes and Duhon would be really good if we could draft Jordan.

I also wouldn't mind Lue as a 3rd PG (plays good defense).

Glenn is just campaigning for his Stuckey is a 2 position.

Where does the acquisition of Duhon leave Afflalo? Do we package him with Sheed in the above scenario?

Glenn is just campaigning for his Stuckey is a 2 position.

I didn't want to accuse...

I never have that problem.

Accuse away, I'm not going to run from my opinion.

There are no sacred cows.

That doesn't make sense, but I wanted to say it anyways.

Accuse away, I'm not going to run from my opinion.

There are no sacred cows.

That doesn't make sense, but I wanted to say it anyways.

Except for Stuckey. AlsoIdidn'tseetheWHITEtextuntiljustnow.

ANYTHING IS POSSIBLLLLEEEE!!!!

Glenn, question -- if Stuckey is a 2, do you favor moving Rip? Or is Stuckey better as a 6th man-type guy?

I love Rip, he might be my favorite Piston (it's either him or Amir), but faced with the reality that he can opt out next summer, I think Joe has to listen to offers for him.

If you can turn Rip (plus other assets) into an All Star quality big, then I think you have to do it and turn over the starting SG spot to Stuckey.

I don't agree with Glenn all the time, but he's never dumb.

That's my version of a compliment.

I don't agree with Glenn all the time, but he's never dumb.

That's my version of a compliment.

http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/sallyfieldoscar.jpg

I love Rip, he might be my favorite Piston (it's either him or Amir), but faced with the reality that he can opt out next summer, I think Joe has to listen to offers for him.

If you can turn Rip (plus other assets) into an All Star quality big, then I think you have to do it and turn over the starting SG spot to Stuckey.

I agree. Dumars has said he'd like a combo backcourt anyway. Billups can play off the ball as well so they'd share both duties.

IMO, the type of scenario you described is probably the most likely outcome of this offseason. I have a feeling Joe is unwilling to part with Tay unless he's getting back an elite SF, and with Carmello and T-Mac being the available guys, I don't see it happening (Melo = no defense, T-Mac = injury-prone). It's looking more and more like we'll hang on to Rasheed, too. Coupled with Stuckey being ready to step in, it appears Chauncey or Rip will be shown the door. Whichever guy lands the best return will leave, ultimately.

I have a feeling now that Posey will get more than the MLE, so throw that possiblity out...

I have a feeling now that Posey will get more than the MLE, so throw that possiblity out...
I don't think there is any way that he gets more than the MLE.

He might get the full MLE, but who is going to give him more than that?

I don't think there is any way that he gets more than the MLE.

He might get the full MLE, but who is going to give him more than that?

I agree. What teams have more than the MLE? If they did they'd be looking at Brand (if he opts out), Jamison, Arenas, etc. Not Posey.

If we could turn Billups plus someone off the bench (like Max) into Brand, would you want to keep Sheed and drop McDyess back into his 6th man role? Then going with Glenn's earlier signing ideas, Stuckey takes over PG, we sign someone like Duhon as the backup, and we sign a guy like Pietrus or Barnes to backup SF. Then we have the luxury of drafting the BPA. Its an extreme longshot but I just wanted to see how people felt about it.

A bunch of guys (like Arenas and Iverson) have to decide by today if they are going to opt out using their ETOs.

Anybody heard anything?

AI declines to opt out

I have a feeling now that Posey will get more than the MLE, so throw that possiblity out...
No one who has enough cap space is going to spend it on Posey.


AI declines to opt out
rly no wei...

would u splend the full mle on pietrus? he's so athletic and played some 4 iin nellie ball too so he's pretty versatile

:mccosky:


Keep an eye on the negotiations between the Hawks and forward Josh Smith. Smith is a restricted free agent reportedly seeking a deal that starts in excess of $11 million. Hawks new general manager Rick Sund might not be willing to start a deal at that price. If an impasse occurs, you can bet the Pistons will come asking about a possible sign-and-trade deal.

I will change my name to cum-shot if we get Josh Smith.

Consider yourself warned, Glenn.

would we have to S&T, if he wants 11 mill, we could shoot 'em Tay, Afflalo and picks right?

Atlanta will want young players, expiring contracts and draft picks, and I don't know that a front court of Josh Smith and Dyess is really much of an upgrade, if an upgrade at all...

Do you think it's possible to keep Sheed and get Josh Smith, while also meeting ATL's demands...

they don't need Rip either, so you could toss his name out

i doubt they would be looking at any of our guards. id throw in amir to get josh smith

would we have to S&T, if he wants 11 mill, we could shoot 'em Tay, Afflalo and picks right?
They already have a Tayshaun-esque player in Josh Childress.

Well, they could trade Childress for something else they need if they got Tay. Or they could play them both together. I wouldn't be crushed having to Tay's on our team.

I'd trade Tay for Childress and '09 1st round draft pick...think Sund would bite?

not if he wants to keep his job.

I'd trade Tay for Childress and '09 1st round draft pick...think Sund would bite?

How much are you going to pay Childress in order to match Tay?

maybe around 9 annually, and then you'll still have the full MLE to splurge on whatever...

Is Childress really that good? He's a 9mill per year player now?

Is Childress really that good? He's a 9mill per year player now?

LOL. He is for a GM that wants to lose his job..haha. I usually lurk, but this ridiculousness brought me out of hiding....

I agree. He's probably worth slightly more than the MLE.

That's what I thought, then I hear 9mill floating around. That's crazy.

James Jones officially opted out in Portland today.

He might be a nice backup for Tay at the right price.

He left $3.1m on the table, though.

:mccosky:

Lots o' bold.


Free-agent time likely to be slow for Pistons

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Tuesday marks the start of free-agent season.

That's the day free agents are officially free to negotiate with other teams. They can begin signing with new teams July 9.

The Pistons have their mid-level (roughly $6 million) and veterans ($2 million) exceptions available, but it's doubtful they will use all of it. Two reasons for that: This isn't a bumper crop for free agents, and their first priority is to see what they can do trade-wise.

Also, though the Pistons are safely under the luxury tax threshold right now, they do plan on giving Jason Maxiell a contract extension this summer. Depending on what other roster changes get made, that would put them very close to the tax line.

Joe Dumars said he most likely wouldn't be looking to use the full mid-level exception, so that takes the Pistons out of the running for some of the bigger names on the market (Antawn Jamison, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Ron Artest and DeSagana Diop, to name just a few).

Dumars also said he wouldn't even delve into the free-agent market until he exhausted all of the possible trade scenarios -- and that could go deep into the summer and into the fall. The free-agent market could be well picked over by that time.

As for the Pistons' own free agents, it is highly unlikely Jarvis Hayes or Juan Dixon will be re-signed. Both will be unrestricted free agents.

There's still a chance the Pistons could bring Walter Herrmann back, but he does have seven-figure offers to play in Europe. How draft pick Walter Sharpe looks in the summer league could determine how strongly the Pistons go after Herrmann.

There's a strong chance that Theo Ratliff could return. He has been contemplating retirement, but the Pistons would like to bring him back as their fifth big man.

Lindsey Hunter, too, has been contemplating retirement. Initially, he was expected to return as a member of Michael Curry's coaching staff. That didn't happen.

Now, Hunter is considering the possibility of playing one more season.

For a wing player, the Suns like Jarvis Hayes. He played for the Detroit Pistons last season when new Suns coach Terry Porter was an assistant there.

Hayes, a sturdy, 6-8 forward, hit 37.6 percent of his 3-pointers last season and averaged 6.7 points but played only once in the Eastern Conference finals.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/06/29/20080629suns.html

Why didn't it happen? REPORT THE NEWS YOU ARROGANT FUCK.

If we could get Rick Sund to agree to not match on Josh Childress, we could sign him and trade Tay a lot more comfortably.

Childress would back up Walter Sharpe, of course.

Or he could bring a soft pillow and blankey if he wanted to be the starter.

Pietrus might be a good option if we want a quicker fix at the backup swingman spot.

Pistons' Dumars plans to be careful in free agency

by A. Sherrod Blakely
Tuesday July 01, 2008, 12:05 AM

AUBURN HILLS -- When asked what he'll be doing at the bewitching hour of free agency, which officially kicked off at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday, Pistons president Joe Dumars said, "probably watching a rerun of the Keith Olbermann show."

Dumars isn't the only NBA executive who isn't exactly chomping at the bit to get at this year's free agency class, which is considered one of the weakest in years based on its lack of depth and impact players.

"There are some good pieces out there," Dumars said. "But there are not a lot of the major, marquee names you normally see in free agency. So those key pieces you see out there, they have to be key for your team, they have to fit your team. You have to be careful in what you do in free agency this year."

And the select few unrestricted free agents who have the ability to significantly alter a team's makeup -- such as Washington's Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison -- are expected to re-sign with their current team.

One thing making this summer's free agency period unique for the Pistons is that it doesn't involve Detroit trying to re-sign one of its core players.


POTENTIAL TARGETS
A list of some players the Detroit Pistons may target in free agency and they could have a decent shot at signing:

Ricky Davis, G/F Miami -- His talent's never an issue; His wisdom? Well, that's another story.

Michael Finley, G/F, San Antonio -- Detroit made a run at him a couple years ago. Not sure if he's worth it a second time around.

James Jones, G/F, Portland -- Would be higher on a lot of team's radars if not for knee problems this past season.

James Posey, G/F, Boston -- His strong play in the postseason may have priced him out of Detroit's -- and possibly Boston's -- price range.

Mickael Pietrus, G/F, Golden State -- Explosive athlete who's in search of the right place to showcase his talent. Could it be in Detroit?

"It started with Rip (Hamilton), then 'Sheed (Wallace), Tay (Prince), Ben (Wallace) and then Chauncey (Billups)," Dumars said. "The last five years, that's what we've been focused on come July 1. So this is the first time in five years that we haven't had to focus on a major re-signing of one of our own players."

Dumars doesn't anticipate the Pistons being big spenders. Only three teams -- Memphis, Philadelphia and the Los Angeles Clippers -- having enough salary cap space to make a major impact.

"More than likely, we're not delving into this free agent class with a lot of money to spend on anybody," Dumars said. "This is a free agent class for us, that we would have to specifically target somebody at the right price and the right amount of years. That's about how we're going into it."

Armed with the mid-level exception that was worth $5.36 million during the 2007-2008 season, Detroit likely will use part of it to add a perimeter player at the small forward position.

Detroit is expected to reach out to Boston's James Posey, who significantly bolstered his stock with a strong showing in the playoffs in helping the Celtics capture their 17th NBA title.

However, landing Posey won't be easy considering his first choice is to go back to Boston and the Celtics appear willing to offer him a multi-year deal that probably will start at the full mid-level exception.

Other small forwards Detroit might have some interest in pursuing include Portland's James Jones, Los Angeles Lakers forward Trevor Ariza, Atlanta's Josh Childress (restricted free agent), Dallas' Michael Finley and Miami's Ricky Davis.

Childress is the only one of the group who is a restricted free agent, which means the Hawks can match any offer Childress receives.

On the home front, the Pistons expect Lindsey Hunter to return next season, but it'll likely be in an even more diminished role than the one he had this season.

Detroit is in the market for a No. 3 point guard -- possibly a player who emerges from a summer league team in Las Vegas -- who would play ahead of Hunter.

The Pistons also are expected to bring Theo Ratliff back next season.

Walter Hermmann is another possibility, but he's expected to have more lucrative offers from overseas teams. And when you combine that with the fact that he may very well have another season with a limited role, he may decide to play elsewhere.

Detroit is in the market for a No. 3 point guard -- possibly a player who emerges from a summer league team in Las Vegas -- who would play ahead of Hunter.

*cough* Chalmers *cough*

Other small forwards Detroit might have some interest in pursuing include Portland's James Jones, Los Angeles Lakers forward Trevor Ariza, Atlanta's Josh Childress (restricted free agent), San Antonio's Michael Finley and Miami's Ricky Davis.

Fixed.

The Pistons are going to be very selective in free agency. They are targeting Ricky Davis.

:dana:


Don't expect a free-agency pick-me-up for Pistons

By DANA GAURUDER
Of The Oakland Press

AUBURN HILLS - Back in 2002, the Pistons spent their free agent money on a journeyman point guard who had passed through five organizations.

A couple of seasons later, they rolled the dice on a former All-Star who had undergone three major knee surgeries.

The Pistons struck gold on Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess but it would be unreasonable to expect a repeat performance in this season's free agent market.

For one, the list of unrestricted free agents doesn't excite anyone looking for a lowcost gem. Second, the Pistons are wary of the luxury tax and already have more than $60 million in salary commitments. Third, the Pistons really don't know what their needs are until president of basketball operations Joe Dumars exhausts all trade possibilities.

Like most teams, the Pistons are over the salary-cap threshold and thus are eligible for a mid-level exception, which is what they used to sign Billups and McDyess. The mid-level exception is approximately $5.5 million and can be used to sign one or more players.

The Pistons also have to make decisions on five of their own free agents. The contracts of Jarvis Hayes, Walter Herrmann, Juan Dixon, Lindsey Hunter and Theo Ratliff expired at the end of last season.

Hayes, a streak shooter, lost his rotation spot in the playoffs. It's unlikely he'll be offered a contract by the Pistons, even though he said just after the season he'd like to come back.

Dixon, acquired just before the trade deadline, didn't have a role in the postseason and will also have to look for another team. Herrmann will likely head overseas to play. Hunter and Ratliff could return with short-term contracts if they don't retire.

If Ratliff does hang up his uniform, the Pistons could be in the market for another big man. They also have a hole at the backup small forward position, even though they're high on top draft pick Walter Sharpe.

There's an extensive list of perimeter players looking for new deals, so the Pistons can afford to wait before making any free agent moves. James Posey, Devin Brown, Devean George, Mickael Pietrus, Matt Barnes, Michael Finley, Quinton Ross, Ricky Davis, Bostjan Nachbar, Bonzi Wells, former Piston Mo Evans and Roger Mason are all small forwards or swingmen who could claim a role behind Tayshaun Prince.

Finding a decent big man on the free agent market is a much more difficult proposition. DeSagana Diop, Kurt Thomas, P.J. Brown and Brian Skinner head that rather unimposing list.

Washington's fortunes could hinge on what happens with its unrestricted free agents. Two of its three stars, Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison, will jump into the market. But players like Arenas and Jamison won't accept mid-level money, so the only way a team like the Pistons can acquired them would be a sign-and-trade deal.

Maybe they really are targeting the old Finley SDB, and by old, I mean not aged.

time to go into full attack mode, because whoever gets Maggette for the MLE, gets a steal

Pistons set sights on trio of perimeter free agents

by A. Sherrod Blakely | Analysis
Wednesday July 02, 2008, 12:05 AM

AUBURN HILLS -- The Detroit Pistons plan to talk to a number of players during the free agency period, which began Tuesday.

However, there are three who appear to be higher on Detroit's radar than others.

The Pistons are expected to spend the early part of free agency focused on landing one of the following players: James Jones of Portland; C.J. Miles of Utah or Mickael Pietrus of Golden State.

Players can commit to a team now, but can't sign a contract until July 9.

All three are believed to be on similar footing in the eyes of the Pistons.

Joe Dumars, Detroit's president of basketball operations, declined to comment on which players the Pistons would target this summer.

However, all three of the aforementioned players have many of the traits Dumars seeks in free agents:

• All three are fairly young. Jones is the oldest at 27.

• All three have shown flashes of being really good players, but too many injuries (Jones) or too many players ahead of them on the depth chart (Miles and Pietrus) led to that promise remaining somewhat unfulfilled.

"This is a free agent class for us that we would have to specifically target somebody at the right price, the right amount of years," Dumars said in interview earlier this week. "That's about how we're going to approach it."

Detroit enters free agency looking to use a good chunk of its mid-level exception, which is expected to be worth close to $6 million. All three players are likely to receive offers that start at less than $6 million per season.

And what makes this trio of potential Pistons so unique is that they each bring a different strength to the floor.

Jones is the best 3-point shooter, Pietrus is the best athlete while Miles is probably the best all-around player.

Not surprisingly, the Pistons will have competition from other NBA teams for all three.

Jones said earlier that despite being able to sign with any team, Portland remains a possibility as well.

"I would love to return (to Portland)," Jones told The Oregonian shortly after becoming a free agent last week. "But it would have to be under circumstances that are scripted perfectly. And that's left to be seen."

Acquiring Miles, one of the last players to jump to the NBA straight from high school, won't be quite as easy.

Earlier this week, the Jazz made a qualifying offer to Miles, making him a restricted free agent. Utah can match any offer Miles gets.

It's unclear if Utah plans to match an offer for Miles because it already has a logjam along the perimeter. But letting the 21-year-old go and getting nothing in return isn't something the Jazz appear to be comfortable with, either.

"You don't just throw away your future because of numbers," Jazz coach Jerry Sloan told the Salt Lake Tribune.

Pietrus began last season as a starter in Golden State, but the team's early struggles led to a lineup change that had him once again coming off the bench. His best days as an NBA player have come as a valued reserve. In the last three seasons, Pietrus has been one of the NBA's top scoring backups at 9.3 points per game.

If Pietrus were to sign with Detroit, he would assume a similar role as a backup who could play multiple perimeter positions.

Anyone see Miles? Is he a SG version of Amir where he impresses but just can't get minutes?

Of those four, I'd definitely go after pietru first. He's sporadic at best offensively, but he's a top-shelf perimeter defender, and would thrive here in a pressure defense.

James Jones I've been watching afor a few years now. He's like Jarvis Hayes, if Jarvis could play defense.

He'd be a slight upgrade, but at least he wouldn't hurt us 6 out of every 7 games. He's defended Paul Pierce pretty well in the past.

I'd be curious to see what Pietrus could do in a system not implemented by Nellie...

pietrus is an excellent blocker and has really good timing, and a decent 3pt shot. i just have a feeling james jones might be jarvis hayes part 2.

i just have a feeling james jones might be jarvis hayes part 2.

He is, but a much better defender, which isn't bad.

Where does the acquisition of Duhon leave Afflalo?
with an average pg, because i've always felt people here overrate Duhon and maybe don't see enough of him to get why he ate bench time in Chi-Town.

He is, but a much better defender, which isn't bad.
He's also a more consistent shooter.

He's also a more consistent shooter.


That's great, that's exactly what we nee..um, nevermind. Twitch.

James Jones SF, Aron Affalo SG, Rodney Stuckey PG would be a nice setup imo. Jones/Stuckey relieve some of the pressure to score more from affalo and we keep some fairly solid perimeter defense out there.

I think what should dictate our offeseason plans is just to see what Boston end's up with...if all they do is add Posey and their two picks, Giddens & Walker, I don't think we'll have to make a trade...at least not until the deadline maybe...

I don't think the gap between us and Boston is as wide as some might think...other than our obvious mistakes in the ECF (poor rebounding, etc.) the difference between us and them is probably just role players

Boston doesn't have much flexibility to make something big happen and if they lose Posey, they won't be able to add somebody better, which makes them more vulnurable

they have tons of FA's (House, Brown, Posey, Cassell, T. Allen), all of whom played minutes in the Finals...

I think what should dictate our offeseason plans is just to see what Boston end's up with...if all they do is add Posey and their two picks, Giddens & Walker, I don't think we'll have to make a trade...at least not until the deadline maybe...


Just my opinion, but if Joe doesn't make a significant trade before opening night, he's going to look like a fool after that press conference performance he put on.

And I think it's safe to say that Joe doesn't enjoy the thought of looking like a fool.

I think you can bank on there being at least one significant trade.

^ and for some reason i'm thinking it's going to involve either amare or emeka.

Just my opinion, but if Joe doesn't make a significant trade before opening night, he's going to look like a fool after that press conference performance he put on.

And I think it's safe to say that Joe doesn't enjoy the thought of looking like a fool.

I think you can bank on there being at least one significant trade.
If we can get something in return, he stated that guys weren't getting swapped for corn dogs and cheese puffs. One could argue that even bringing in Melo was a dangerous plan to improving the "work hard every night" montage.

With that said let me address one notion.

I think what should dictate our offeseason plans is just to see what Boston end's up with...
No we shouldn't, in fact we should be active to make the best team we possibly can, boston won't be trading any stars, so the only thing to address is any weaknesses we had against their stars(no legit defender for Pierce off the bench, No true center banging with Kendrick perkins for boards, etc.)

Haven't heard a word from either C.J. Miles or his agent here at the start of the free-agent negotiating period. You have to wonder what kind of interest Miles is drawing from other teams as well as whether the Jazz are making any attempt to sign him to a multiyear deal.

Miles was reported Wednesday by a Michigan newspaper as a target of Pistons GM Joe Dumars, along with Portland's James Jones and Golden State's Mickael Pietrus. Jones and Pietrus are both unrestricted free agents, while Miles is restricted.

I want to try to get Pietrus. Am not too interested in Jones. Intrigued but otherwise clueless about CJ Miles.

I want to try to get Pietrus. Am not too interested in Jones. Intrigued but otherwise clueless about CJ Miles.

Ditto.

Pietrus is the most "exciting" of this trio, but it seems like the Jazz are high on Miles so there may be something there.

Pietrus also would seem to be the guy most interested in coming here, because of his love of pressure defense.

Just my opinion, but if Joe doesn't make a significant trade before opening night, he's going to look like a fool after that press conference performance he put on.

And I think it's safe to say that Joe doesn't enjoy the thought of looking like a fool.



Yeah, but at that same time, if he can't get what he considers 'equal value', which if you ask me seems like it's going to be the case, than he shouldn't be concerned about looking like a fool.

Joe knows he still has a shot at a Title next season, even with the roster as it is, if Boston doesn't improve than he won't have to make a trade, and instead just sign a guy like Pietrus or James Jones...



I think you can bank on there being at least one significant trade.

And I don't know about that, the way it's starting to look, there aren't many players available on the trade market that can be had that would be much better than what we're offering

Guy's on the Trade Market

(all off the top of my ahead, so forgive me if I omitted anybody)

NYK- Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry, Stephon Marbury

BOS- nobody

TOR- nobody

PHI- Andre Miller?? Probably not anymore...

NJ- Vince Carter (Thorn turned down Vince for Wally straight up...)

MIL- Mo Williams, Michael Redd, Charlie Villanueva (they might keep Redd now that they got RJ)

IND- Jamaal Tinsley, Shawne Williams (trouble)

CLE- Wally Szczerbiak, Anderson Varejao

CHI- Kirk Hinrich

ATL- nobody, they will match anything with Josh Smith

MIA- Mark Blount, Marcus Banks

WSH- nobody

CHA- Ray Felton, Jason Richardson (J-Rich isn't much better than Rip, if at all)

ORL- nobody

SAS- nobody

HOU- Tracy McGrady?? I doubt he'll be moved, but I suppose Houston would if the offer was really sweet...

DAL- Josh Howard

MEM- nobody, Mike Miller's already been traded

NO- Mike James

MIN- nobody

DEN- Allen Iverson, Kenyon Martin (no thanks to either), Who knows about Carmelo, I don't think Warkentien will trade him, it makes sense both ways, but he's too valuable to that organization and has too much star power to give up on, Marcus Camby?? Who knows with him either, his rebounding would be an asset but his overall defense is insanely overrated, I wouldn't give up two starters for Camby...

POR- nobody

SEA- Earl Watson, Luke Ridnour, Chris Wilcox

UTH- Carlos Boozer??? Has an ETO for next season, I don't think they'd get rid of him this early, especially if they get Deron Williams locked up...and I also don't think AK47 is on the market anymore, all his rumors have died down now...

LAL- nobody

LAC- S&T with Elton Brand, I suppose it's possible, but I haven't even heard a whisper about us being interested, and since they signed Baron long-term, my guess is they plan on being contenders for at least the next few seasons, so Sheed's expiring probably isn't as attractive to them as it would've been before Baron signed on board...

PHX- Amare Stoudemire?? Haven't heard any rumors on him being available, and I doubt Kerr would give up on him. Boris Diaw & Barbosa can be had, but neither of those are worth one of our starters...Diaw has been a stiff ever since he got his new deal, and Barbosa couldn't guard you or me...

SAC- Ron Artest won't be moved until the deadline, and I'm sure SACTO would gladly give up Reef, Kenny Thomas or Brad Miller, all of whom are signed through 2010 for a combined 37 million, but I doubt Joe want's any part of them

GS- any offer to Monta or Biedrins will be matched (especially if they don't get Brand), Al Harrington isn't worth one of our starters (personally, I don't even know that he'd be an upgrade anyway, even over McDyess), and I don't know that Stephen Jackson would ever be a Piston after the brawl...



see, there's no deals to be made, Sheed's contract isn't as attracitve to the teams who could really use him (PHX, DEN), it's probably easier for Cleveland to move Wally than for us to move Sheed since Wally is so replaceable on that team...


I don't see a trade happening.

Making a trade, strictly for the sake of 'making a trade' is stupid, unless it put's you in a better opportunity to contend for a title, or at the very least put's you where your currently at, than it's pointless...

Moron's like Drew Sharp and co. never understand that...they just expect to see Elton Brand and Carmelo here next year without any regard of how difficult it is to obtain them.

Sharp wrote on Sunday that the Pistons best move is to "Wait for LeBron & Others in 2010" Please like LeBron's going to sign here, put down the blow, Carmelo wouldn't sign here either, and Chris Bosh isn't as great as he's made out to be (he's a stud don't get me wrong, but he's not, and never will be KG or Duncan)...2010 FA Class is a pipe dream

to me the leading guys i see us pursuing, in a sign and trade or straight up trade, are emeka okafor and amare stoudemire. possibly mcgrady but we'd have to send an awful lot of salary to get him.

there are others but for me, for some reason, those are the 2 guys i keep coming back to and seem like the 2 leading candidates. gerald wallace still a possibility....? not sure.

i'd love to be a fly on the wall in joe's office right about now, to see what he's exploring out there.

I don't think Amare is a possibility anymore...Nash & Shaq don't have much left in their tanks (and both expire in 2 yrs), and when they move on, Phoenix will need to have somebody to build around again, and that has to be Amare...

Okafor is interesting, but I still don't view him as too much of an upgrade...he's somewhat been an underachiever as the #2 overall pick, hes injury prone and he can't make FT's for the life of him...

and remember, Emeka already turned down 13 million annually last year...he's not even worth that much!!!

i wish we had an expiring contract on our hands of a useless player...that would come in handy about now...

it doesn't seem possible to improve via trade (except for that Tay/Chauncey for Melo deal that was turned down)...

So you don't see Tay/Sheed for Wallace/Emeka as an upgrade at all?

And in terms of Nash and Shaq getting old, that just presses the WIN NOW mentality, maybe they trade a young stud like Amare for a guy like Sheed who's older but plays better defense and can nail the outside shots as well as go inside with winning now in mind. Not likely, but possible.

I keep going back and forth as to who I would prefer out of Pietrus, Miles, and Jones.

My thought process...

James Jones: He's a good shooter, and has good length for the 3 @ 6-8. One thing that really sticks out in my mind about him though is that he seems to get down on himself a bit too easily. And when he does, it gets ugly. I remember he had some horrific shooting stretches for Phoenix (Where wings like JJ get open shot after open shot). For Portland in '08 there was definitely a pattern as well. In Nov-Dec-Jan he was lighting it up shooting the ball. In Feb-Mar-Apr he shot around 35% overall and mid-30's from 3, which brought percentages way down. I worry about the Jarvis-esque month-long+ slumps. Otherwise he's a solid defender (not a truly GOOD one though), and great shooter when he's got confidence.

Mickael Pietrus: Athletic, decent jumper, probably the best defender of the group, and he REBOUNDS (I big factor for me). Questionable BBall IQ, and I wonder how he'd do with a walk-it-up team. He's probably got the worst shot selection of the three as well.

CJ Miles: Don't know a lot about him, though his skillset is intruiging, and he looked good toward the end of the season for Utah. The fact that he shot pretty well from FG, 3FG, and FT line despite sporadic and limited minutes is impressive (rare). He's actually a year younger than Stuckey, so he's got the most room for improvement of all of these guys. Probably the biggest Boom or Bust of all of them.

I would still take Posey over all of them, but I guess I would be relatively happy with any of the 3.

Contra Costa Times-

Don’t get your hopes up on Josh Smith. I was told he’s Atlanta’s Monta - they aren’t letting him go. Philadelphia and Detroit are reportedly hot after him. I hope the Warriors are in that max (I’m a big Josh Smith fan). But it looks like it won’t matter. They’re planning to match - though I’m sure an offer sheet for the max would make the Hawks at least think twice.

The big question we should be asking is which one can we actually get?

So you don't see Tay/Sheed for Wallace/Emeka as an upgrade at all?



To be honest, not really. I don't think Emeka & Wallace get us past Boston, and really that's the only team we have to worry about...

Emeka will cost us too much if we have to sign him long term, and Gerald Wallace, just like Tay, is a solid defensive player, but he won't get as many looks here as he did with Charlotte since they've never had a two guard that commands as many shots as Rip...

I would still take Posey over all of them, but I guess I would be relatively happy with any of the 3.
Posey is severely overrated to me and outside of cj miles i'd take the other two over him.

Also my opinion on CJ miles is that he's not a sure enough thing to spend any roster space, money, or time on for us. He may be the best of the bunch, but he has left nothing on the table for me to be sure about him.

James Jones has Jarvis-like shot selection, but a better shot. I'm wondering what his D is like with his injuries. He WAS a decent defender, not sure if that's still the case. He seems like the best of the lot.

CJ Miles is intriguing, but I'm not sure what we'd do with him and Afflalo. He's certainly not a Tayshaun backup.

Pietrus strikes me as all-hops no-bball IQ.

CJ Miles couldn't even beat out Jason Hart or Ronnie Price for playing time...

maybe that's Sloan being hard on the young guy, but CJ seems like a guy with just upside and no results yet...and we already have one of those guys on our roster

Pietrus strikes me as all-hops no-bball IQ.

You don't get to be a great defensive player if you have no bball IQ.

He's got poor offensive decision making skills, but defensively he has great instincts.

Contra Costa Times-

Don’t get your hopes up on Josh Smith. I was told he’s Atlanta’s Monta - they aren’t letting him go. Philadelphia and Detroit are reportedly hot after him. I hope the Warriors are in that max (I’m a big Josh Smith fan). But it looks like it won’t matter. They’re planning to match - though I’m sure an offer sheet for the max would make the Hawks at least think twice.

i heard sund wasnt willing to go over 11 or 14 (cant remember which) per year. so josh smith isnt going to get the max from ATL.

detroit seems to be the #1 team if that is true because he left philly happy, but without a offer.

tay/dice for smith?

tay/dice for smith?
Dyess has already stated he'd rather retire than play somewhere else right?. Don't know how that effects his trade value.

Pistons may take a look at free agent Maggette
by A. Sherrod Blakely
Sunday July 06, 2008, 12:30 AM

AUBURN HILLS -- When free agency began, the Detroit Pistons had no intentions of using their full mid-level exception for one player.

But the Pistons might have a change of heart, especially if they have a chance to land a player such as Corey Maggette.

Maggette, a 6-foot-6 swingman, has made it clear he's willing to consider accepting the mid-level exception, which is expected to be worth about $5.8 million.

Although he was expected to re-sign a more lucrative deal when he decided to opt out of the final year of his contract with the Clippers, that all changed when Golden State's Baron Davis unexpectedly opted out of the final year of his deal, and agreed to a five-year, $65 million contract with his hometown Clippers.

When you factor in fellow Clipper Elton Brand opting out of his contract -- and likely to sign a deal to stay in Los Angeles -- Maggette's return seems unlikely.

If Brand re-signs with the Clippers, that will leave only Philadelphia, Memphis and Golden State as teams with enough cap space to sign Maggette above the mid-level exception.

The Sixers are focused on trying to land Atlanta's Josh Smith, Memphis is expected to hold out and save its cap space for next summer's free agent class and the Warriors have a five-year, $90 million offer in to Brand -- about $15 million more than the Clippers' offer.

That means Maggette, who averaged a career-high 22.1 points per game last season, may have little choice but to settle for the mid-level exception.

And while the Pistons have been reluctant to use it all on one player this summer, they may if it means landing Maggette.

The NBA champion Boston Celtics also have been hesitant to commit their full mid-level exception to one player, even one of their own free agents, James Posey.

Boston also has inquired about Maggette and have reportedly offered their full mid-level exception.

Maggette, who opted out of the final year of a contract that would have paid him $7 million this season, appears to at least be receptive to the idea.

"If you want to win, you have to make sacrifices," Maggette told the Boston Globe.

Come here, Maggette -- there's more PT available here than in Boston. Plus, we could probably look to move someone, if Joe determined it was needed.

PG Stuckey
SG Johnson
SF Maggette
PF Smith
C Sheed

? Can you sign and trade player plus a player? Or two separate deals could be worked out to make it legal. I have no idea if ATL would have any interest in Billups, Rip, Tay, and Dyess, and feel like we should probably get something a little more back too. That team would win a lot of ball games and be very fun to watch.

I don't know what the actual trade would be, just something I pulled out of my ass and wanted to see what the lineup would look like. No idea what would work CBA wise either... But I would love to have Johnson and Smith here. I don't think Sund is that dumb though...

we'd never trade that many core players at once. plus, even for all those cats, i don't see the hawks trading their 2 best young players who are still just beginning to realise their full potential.

i really REALLY hope we can get lucky and land maggette. he has some deficiencies but he's still a damn good player. he's a top flight athlete, something we desperately need. and he can score in a variety of ways.

he'd make us more athletic, versatile, and able to move another 'core' player if we wanted.

i hope we're smart and not only offer him the full MLE, but roll out the red carpet in an all out effort to bring him to detroit. there's 30 minutes a night for him coming off our bench if he wants it. he could be 6th man of the year for us and do wonders in whatever role we ask of him.

Definitely worth a look. If we trade Rip or Tay he immediately steps in. Plus he'd get all the backup minutes for Tay and a large chunk for Rip (split with Stuckey). If we trade Billups and Stuckey steps in as the starting PG, he'd have all the minutes behind Rip and Tay. So basically, if we trade any one of those 3 guys it opens up a ton of minutes and maybe a starting spot for him.

I still think that adding Maggette to the current roster puts us ahead of Boston...Maggette's a legit 15 ppg and pair that with the improvement of Stuckey, you have a starting backcourt off your bench...


Boston's going to be losing some depth this offseason...especially if Posey takes the entire MLE

I think it's important to remember where we stand with this current roster, As is, we are the 2nd best in the East, and top 5 in the entire league (arguably top 2 in the League, I think we would've beaten LA, IMO)...

C- Sheed/Theo/Samb
PF- Dyess/Max/Amir
SF- Tay/Maggette/Sharpe
SG- Rip/Afflalo/Acker
PG- Chauncey/Stuck/Lindsey

^^I still think that gets us past Boston...

I don't think Maggette choses us over Boston unless we offer him the one thing Boston can't...a starting role.

I don't think Maggette choses us over Boston unless we offer him the one thing Boston can't...a starting role.


It depends, will Ainge really offer him the full MLE, knowing that he has several more roster spots to fill?

House, Cassell, PJ and Tony Allen all need to be replaced...

It depends, will Ainge really offer him the full MLE, knowing that he has several more roster spots to fill?

Ainge would not be involved to begin with unless he was committed to using the MLE.

well i shouldn't be getting my hopes up because i still think our chances are clim. but maggette is exactly the type of player to push a team over the top.

more than anything, his ability to get to the FT line would be a HUGE addition to this team. unlike everyone else on the roster except stuckey, maggette is excellent at taking people off the dribble and getting to the hoop and finishing/getting FTs.

that is HUGE in today's game and even more valuable considering this team is sorely lacking those qualities.

when teams lock down defensively on our shooters, we need a guy like him to take it to the hoop and get some calls and/or open things up for others.

i don't know the stat, but i'm willing to bet he's somewhere in the top 10-15 in the nba in getting to the line per minutes played. he turns it over more than i like and he isn't great defensively. but those are things he could improve and/or i can live with, given his other abilities.

OK, i'll stop getting my hopes too high. he'll probably take the money and run to GS. or he'll take a bigger role in orlando or something.

Magette would be great, but there's no way he chooses us over full-MLE offers from San Antonio (starting role) and Boston. Not a chance.

Magette would be great, but there's no way he chooses us over full-MLE offers from San Antonio (starting role) and Boston. Not a chance.

San Antonio is in a steeper decline than we are, and Boston can't clear a starting role for him.

The Spurs aren't the mortal lock to contend for a title that they once were. We were a better team than them last season.

I'm really warming to Pietrus as a good player to pick up. I think he'd fit in right away on defense and the oiffesive shot selection shouldn't be judged so prematurely on a team that tells everybody to chuck it. I dont think theres a 3 point shooter on GS's roster that hasn't taken a significant amount of dumb shots with Baron Davis included. It was the gameplan to chuck. So i definitely want to give Pietrus a shot as Tay's backup. Only thing I don't liker is his FT shooting.

Also averaging 1 steal a game in 19 minutes played per game is pretty solid.

Maggette is a good player and a knucklehead. I personally don't know if i'd want to offer him a for sure job with us over Tay. I also am not a fan of his Flip Murray like defense of jumping passing lanes, but not defending overall that well. If he were willing to be a backup i'd do it, but i personally think he'll go somewhere else mainly because Dumars doesn't Guarantee playing time to FA's and i think someone else will to him.

he guaranteed playing time to Chauncey and probably Nazr.

he guaranteed playing time to Chauncey and probably Nazr.
No, he told him it was his team. And i dont remember him giving a set plasying time to nazr. Doing so would have been even more chaotic since he was benched midseason. The idea of getting Maggette as a backup no less is not a scenario where Joe is going to guarantee playing time. Even you know that. If he chooses to come here it'll be under the idea that he'll have to earn it. I doubt Joe sees him as the Franchise player he saw Cbill to be when he had nothing but chucky fagass atkins at PG.

...so telling chauncey it was "his team" wasn't guaranteeing playing time? How does that work out?

...so telling chauncey it was "his team" wasn't guaranteeing playing time? How does that work out?
He didn't guarantee him shit, he did see him as a franchise player though, which is why he told him it was on him to help the team be successful. In reality Billups earned everything he got as our Starting PG to the point of every backup we had before stuckey wasn't even close to him. It's not the same scenario as a team that's already good looking for some help on the side to round out our roster better.


But I already said this, you just read the first couple sentences and replied like you tend to do sometimes or replied solely to what you wanted to.

I doubt Joe sees him as the Franchise player he saw Cbill to be when he had nothing but chucky fagass atkins at PG.



But all this bs aside, Maggette probably ends up in Boston or on a team with 30+ minutes available to him. I think the way he was benched by dunleavy had a hand in him opting out for a new home. If he ends up in Detroit i'd be seriously surprised. Though I think we are still title relevant, the rest of the league probably doesn't with a new coach and possible core players being traded. Only scenario that works for him is us trading Tay, but i don't think i'd want to have him over Tayshaun.

After the last 2 ECFs I'm very ready to try new starting SF. Watching Tayshaun pussy out in two straight playoff defeats is enough.

Looking back on it, it's even worse than I thought. Tayshaun's was just as inept defensively as he was offensively. His man actually improved his numbers against us.

Maggette isn't the best option on earth, but I have a feeling he wouldn't get bent over and trained on in another conference finals without even putting up a fight...

I'm ok with Tayshaun on this team but his role needs to be drastically reduced.

If Maggette came here, would you agree he'd be top 3 on our team in scoring?

Maybe even top 2, behind Rip.

Or did Dunleavy's system inflate his numbers?

If we somehow convince Maggette to sign here, say goodbye to Rip, IMO.

That's for you, Fool.

Some fanboys are going nuts because Maggette's wife is from IMLAY CITY

THAT MEANS HE'S A LOCK TO COME HERE

http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/martinez_milli00.html

If we somehow convince Maggette to sign here, say goodbye to Rip, IMO.

That's for you, Fool.


I don't know about that. I don't see how if by somehow he agrees to the MLE, it would cause us to trade a starter...you could easily give Corey 30 min per game off the bench (he'd be a top 3 6th man candidate for sure). In doing so, Rip's offensive numbers will take yet another hit and he'll exercise his player option for next year since nobody will match his PO...could be a win, win...

Rip's defense is irreplaceable, especially by Corey Maggette...

I'd ditch Tay before Rip...

He only replaces Rip if Curry plays him at PG. Don't worry Dezzy.

After the last 2 ECFs I'm very ready to try new starting SF. Watching Tayshaun pussy out in two straight playoff defeats is enough.
Pussy out? Don't know about your memory of things because we'd probably be out of the playoffs earlier w/o some of the plays he made in Orlando and aagainst Philly. The reality he doesn't have the stamina of Rip playing defense and offense constantly. We really did him no favors with a shitty backup like Jarvis. Getting Maggette to sign would address the backup issue, but i damn sure wouldn't pick him over Tay.


Looking back on it, it's even worse than I thought. Tayshaun's was just as inept defensively as he was offensively. His man actually improved his numbers against us.
Really, outside of Pierce(who he's always had trouble defending), who dominated him?


Maggette isn't the best option on earth, but I have a feeling he wouldn't get bent over and trained on in another conference finals without even putting up a fight...
He also wouldn't be able to score after the Pounding Pierce would put on him in the paint. We wouldn't see Boston because he damn sure wouldn't have stayed with turkoglu, and we'd maybe not even beat philly with him trying to trade baskets with Iggy rather than defend him. You're hyperboling the fuck out of this.


I'm ok with Tayshaun on this team but his role needs to be drastically reduced.
I'd rather see his backup be drastically improved especially since he hasn't had one worth a fuck since Corliss williamson.. I think Stuckey is proof that having a legit backup role player goes a long way in helping when your starter is worn out, hurt, or slumping. Chomping at Prince when you give him no help is a stretch.

He also wouldn't be able to score after the Pounding Pierce would put on him in the paint.

....you mean like Prince the last two conference finals?

It's safe to assume Maggette, who isn't built like a twig, would not get physically beaten up as easily.


I'd rather see his backup be drastically improved especially since he hasn't had one worth a fuck since Corliss williamson.. I think Stuckey is proof that having a legit backup role player goes a long way in helping when your starter is worn out, hurt, or slumping. Chomping at Prince when you give him no help is a stretch.

Pierce averaged 40 minutes the whole damn season, plus playoffs. I don't see the same bullshit excuses being applied to him.

If the guy you're guarding is playing more minutes than you and YOU are the one that gets worn down, then you need your ass replaced. Plain and simple.

I'll say it again: Every small forward Pierce faced in the playoffs defended him BETTER than Tayshaun Prince.

Tayshaun's defense is criminally overrated. Against the elite swingmen (you know, the ones we have to beat to get back to the finals), he's a little bitch.

He defended Turkoglu and Igoudala, neither of whom have ever even made an all-star game. Big fucking deal. Tayshaun always beats up on lesser competition, then goes into the fetal position when the big boys step up.

With the season on the line, he forgot how to dribble the basketall, and had the ball taken away from him on a play the average 10-year old would have avoided.

Enough is enough, Find a player that has some balls and move on. I'm sure he'd still come in handy against the 2nd-rate opponents, like he always does.

Didn't Hedo make the all-star team this year?

No. He was seen as a snub by a lot of people though.

Ahhh, that's what it was. I knew he was in all-star talks.

You lost me after writing off Hedo and Iggy as bums in the most exaggerated speech in awhile even for you. Can't even take you seriously on this now. Tayshaun is a bum, we need maggette and we'll win a title as sdoon as the switch is made. You win in bizarro world and Tayshaun held us back in those series against those bums in Orlando and Philly.

I never said any of those things, but feel free to exaggerate...

Iggy and Hedo aren't bums.

They simply aren't elite players.

Tayshaun has proven emphatically that he can't handle dealing with elite players, offensively of defensively. He's been punked like a bitch the last two playoffs losses, far worse than anybody else on the roster.

If we need tayshaun to get by PHILADELPHIA, then we may as well scrap the roster and start over, because we sure as shit aren't beating cleveland or boston as long as he's the starting small forward.

...either that, or we get by those teams with or without tayshaun, and god forbid we have someone on the team that doesnt piss his pants at the sight of paul pierce or lebron james, giving us a legit chance to beat either of them.

If we have to keep him, then bring in a guy like maggette that actually knows how to attack the rim and draw fouls, and shoots better than a %23 clip. Maybe if Tayshaun came off the bench, he'd be more effective.

I never said any of those things, but feel free to exaggerate....
You felt the need, Short term memory loss maybe? Or are we stuck in "call you what you called me" looping? Or maybe i was being sarcastic vs you being serious? Either way nevermind, Tay is a bum and so is everyone he stopped. Our scheme was beautiful, if Tay, Ben, Joe D, and other players on our team can't see the brilliance they played under saving them game after game then they need to be scrapped for players as smart as .....Flip Saunder Illuminati. All humor aside I apologize and really mean it honestly. But i cannot even take you seriously on this one. So try moving on unless you want the last word.

You felt the need, Short term memory loss maybe? Or are we stuck in "call you what you called me" looping? Or maybe i was being sarcastic vs you being serious? Either way nevermind, Tay is a bum and so is everyone he stopped.

Yeah, delve into sarcastic strawman arguments. That's what most people do when they're getting their ass handed to them...

I don't need the last word. I have factual evidence to back me up from the last two seasons.

What's more important: the guy that shows up against Philadelphia and Milwaukee, or the guy that goes completely useless against Boston and Cleveland, when we actually need someone to step up?

If your best argument in favor of Prince is that he plays his best against lesser competition, then you don't have much to stand on.

I never understood why the expectations are so high for Tayshaun... he's better than most picks in the 20's... every team has a forth or fift option player... ours just happens to be a good ball handler and above average defender (unless matched against physical SFs)... when he has to focus on slowing down the #1 option his offense suffers...
Who exactly has Maggette stopped lately?

...two pages worth of stuff about Tay and Maggette...

:cogent:

Who exactly has Maggette stopped lately?


Nobody. But he's better suited guarding 2's than 3's...at least that could give him a physical advantage...

That's why I've been viewing him as a bench player. He's pretty much a more gifted Jarvis Hayes, can't guard anybody but doesn't disappear offensively like Jarvis does...

I would be willing to bet Maggette would avg. 15-18 ppg off the bench here...

his +/- could be shaky though...

Yeah, I don't get the "Maggette or Tay?" discussion at all. Maggette is a 2, and I sure hope that we're done trying to play SGs at the 3.

Maggette hasn't been a 2 in the better part of a decade. There's nothing about him that isn't better suited for the 3.

He might be able to get by playing SF in the West, but there is no way that I'd want him playing the 3 in the East.

He'd get abused.

He might be able to get by playing SF in the West, but there is no way that I'd want him playing the 3 in the East.

He'd get abused.
No he wouldn't, he's sooooo physical nobody could abuse him. They'd only abuse Tay, because as we have found out, Tay is a bum now and he's killing this team.

He might be able to get by playing SF in the West, but there is no way that I'd want him playing the 3 in the East.

He'd get abused.

It amuses me that anybody can be called overrated "because he plays in the western conference."

Find me someone that can defend Pierce or LeBron then, and we'll compare them.

But it's not like he would do any worse against the cream of the crop than Tayshaun has. And he'd be a hell of a lot more effective offensively.

He isn't perfect, but he'd be better than worthless against our rivals.

If someone has a better option, please, by all means.

No he wouldn't, he's sooooo physical nobody could abuse him. They'd only abuse Tay, because as we have found out, Tay is a bum now and he's killing this team.


Keep arguing with yourself, strawman....

It amuses me that anybody can be called overrated "because he plays in the western conference."

Find me someone that can defend Pierce or LeBron then, and we'll compare them.

But it's not like he would do any worse against the cream of the crop than Tayshaun has. And he'd be a hell of a lot more effective offensively.

He isn't perfect, but he'd be better than worthless against our rivals.

You're putting words in my mouth. Where did I say he was overrated?

I think he's a very good SG, the only person that I see overrating him is well, himself.

Check his bio here: http://www.coreymaggette.com/


his status as one of basketball's all-time greats was firmly cemented.

As far as who guards Pierce or LeBron, I think you are right, that's a tough role to fill. If Artest wasn't such a fucking loser, that's the type of player that I'd want.

And in a few years, hopefully Amir is a guy that can give Pierce or LeBron some trouble.

I think he could do it right now, actually, if he was allowed to use his 6 fouls. (and I suggested as much during the playoffs)

As far as who guards Pierce or LeBron, I think you are right, that's a tough role to fill. If Artest wasn't such a fucking loser, that's the type of player that I'd want.

Except he isn't an option.

So if we can't find someone to guard LeBron or Pierce, then find someone that can go at them offensively. But don't stay with someone that gets steamrolled both ways.

You're putting words in my mouth.
Yep, he does that.



Keep arguing with yourself, strawman....
You were never good at shit talking K. And no i wasn't arguing, I was delving into sarcasm again because this isn't a legit subject to me. I'm over the serious part of it, you should get over that too.

Except he isn't an option.

So if we can't find someone to guard LeBron or Pierce, then find someone that can go at them offensively. But don't stay with someone that gets steamrolled both ways.

Shawn Marion is in play.

I hate to break it to everyone (especially kstat) but no one can guard pierce or lebron one-on-one nor are you going to stop them on a consistent basis. They are not only quick off the dribble but potentially the two most physical 3's in the league and are VERY adept at finishing at the rim. The advantange is ALWAYS going to be with them on the offensive end.

Unless you have a way to defend the paint and an exceptional help defender (or make a concerted effort to trap them as a team to take the ball out of their hands ) you have no chance at "conisistently" shutting them down. It ain't going to happen. To think that prince is a sub par defender because of this or that cory fucking maggette could do any better is just plain lunacy.

This debate is stupid.

Our problems defending lebron and pierce (and just about everyone in the league) occurred mainly because we played two aging big men that are two subpar help-defenders, especially antonio mcdyess.

The second flip saunders came to the conclusion that mcdyess needed to play 35 a night in the playoffs was the very second we blew any potential chance of "stopping" a paul pierce or a lebron james or having a legitimate chance at winning anything.

Then again, does this team have anyone better?

This and joe dumar's inability to find a quality back-up 3 (which has been a problem since corliss left) is another reason tayshaun seems to fade the later we get in the playoffs.

Tayshaun is not great but he's not nearly as bad as some people think. He alone is not going to shut down lebron and pierce. People seriously need to stop trashing prince for this.

He is not the problem with the detroit pistons. Never has been.

I wouldn't mind getting a 3 who could possibly do a better job against the Lebrons and the Pierces, but there aren't many of those, and that really isn't our central problem.

Anyone who thinks that's the top priority after these losses is a fool who isn't paying attention to all the other problems. We need scoring that doesn't fall to the "law of jumpshot averages" - easy baskets, inside scoring, and/or penetration slashing scoring. We need interior defense, both to defend big guys and to prevent penetration from guys like Lebron and Pierce and Wade and the rest. Before Ben started getting older and slower, he was a deterrent. Aside from the occasional Maxiell block highlight (you know, when he isn't getting killed on the boards) there is no deterrent. Nobody fears driving on the Detroit Pistons, nobody. The whole point was team defense, if they get past one defender, they run into a wall.

No more aging big men who can't rebound, can't score on non-jumpshots, who can't prevent interior penetration. This should be the top top top priority. I'm intrigued by Amir but other than that, I am not in love with any of our big men. Sheed, Dice, Maxiell... It's sort of amazing to have so many talented big men and NONE of them can give us what we need.

BRING IN IRA NEWBLE


It is the situation that Lakers forward Ira Newble is in now, a week into being an unrestricted free agent.

A few teams like Detroit, Atlanta and Charlotte have made preliminary inquiries about Newble but none of those teams or any others that might have any interest are expected to make any firm offers this early.

“Ira understands the situation,” his agent, Andrew Vye said Monday. “I’ll expect things to start heating up for Ira in the next week or two.”

The 33-year old Newble is what’s known in NBA circles as a journeyman. He has been with five NBA teams in eight years, although he only actually has played with four teams - the San Antonio Spurs, the Atlanta Hawks, the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Lakers.Newble was in his fifth year with the Cavaliers this past season, when he was part of a multi-player trade that sent him to the Seattle SuperSonics.

However, he never figured in the Sonics’ plans and promptly was waived. It was thought that he would eventually return to the Cavaliers, who were reluctant to include him in the trade.

But Newble instead signed a 10-day contract March 21 with the Lakers and subsequently was signed for the remainder of the season, even though at the conclusion of his original 10-day contract, the possibility existed that Newble could have been signed by Cleveland.

Although it is highly unlikely that Newble would receive any offers beyond a two-year deal - most likely broken into a guaranteed one-year contract with a club option for a second year - at the very least, there would be teams interested in signing him for the veteran’s minimum, which for Newble, would be for around $1.2 million.Playing in Europe also remains an option, although according to Newble’s former agent, Steve Kauffman, Newble probably would prefer to continue his NBA career.

Kauffman also said he would not entirely rule out the possibility of Newble returning to the Lakers, although he said it was unlikely to happen.

THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS

I'll take Newble as our "Walter Herrmann"...

I'll take Newble as our "Walter Herrmann"...
Bleh, i never liked the guy's game personally.

I wouldn't mind getting a 3 who could possibly do a better job against the Lebrons and the Pierces, but there aren't many of those, and that really isn't our central problem.

Anyone who thinks that's the top priority after these losses is a fool who isn't paying attention to all the other problems. We need scoring that doesn't fall to the "law of jumpshot averages" - easy baskets, inside scoring, and/or penetration slashing scoring. We need interior defense, both to defend big guys and to prevent penetration from guys like Lebron and Pierce and Wade and the rest. Before Ben started getting older and slower, he was a deterrent. Aside from the occasional Maxiell block highlight (you know, when he isn't getting killed on the boards) there is no deterrent. Nobody fears driving on the Detroit Pistons, nobody. The whole point was team defense, if they get past one defender, they run into a wall.

No more aging big men who can't rebound, can't score on non-jumpshots, who can't prevent interior penetration. This should be the top top top priority. I'm intrigued by Amir but other than that, I am not in love with any of our big men. Sheed, Dice, Maxiell... It's sort of amazing to have so many talented big men and NONE of them can give us what we need.
Kstat curses you, Glenn, yargs, and all non-believers into a fire pit of Flip Saunders Hades where all you'll get to do is watch ECF game 6's coached by him for the next 5 million years. :VOLCANO:

Bleh, i never liked the guy's game personally.

V, how can you not be in favor of this?

I'll take Newble as our "Walter Herrmann"...

He'd play as much as Walter.

Did Joe make a deal with Pietrus?


Heat out of running for Warriors' Pietrus

Posted on Tue, Jul. 08, 2008

BY SARAH ROTHSCHILD
srothschild@MiamiHerald.com

With free agent signings set to begin at midnight Tuesday, the Heat is out of the hunt for Golden State swingman Mickael Pietrus, and Miami forward Dorell Wright has a new agent.

Pietrus, a Heat target the past year, is close to reaching a deal with another team, according to his agent, Bill McCandless.

The Heat's failure to land Pietrus, an unrestricted free agent, could be indicative of what's to come as the front office tries to add depth in a cost-effective manner. Miami has little salary cap space and president Pat Riley has said the team wants players who would accept short-term deals and not force the Heat to exceed the salary cap threshold, which will be announced when free agent signings begin.

Riley told reporters Monday in Orlando at the summer league that the Heat likely would take a wait-and-see approach in attempting to sign free agents and the team's best options might be to acquire players via trades.

Riley said the team would go ''slowly'' and find players that ''fit'' the team's direction.

''They have priorities they are addressing,'' McCandless said Tuesday. ``I think they don't include being able to pay a substantial amount of the midlevel exception to a player like [Mickael] at this moment.''

He later said: ``Miami is out.''

McCandless joked that he feels like he should have moved into Heat general manager Randy Pfund's office because they have discussed trying to get Pietrus to the Heat for the past 12 ½ months -- amounting to at least 45 conversations.

Pietrus, 26, averaged 7.2 points and 3.7 rebounds last season for the Warriors. He is athletic, a solid defender and outside shooting threat in the mold of former Heat player James Posey. Pietrus shot 36.1 percent from three-point range last season -- the same as NBA MVP Kobe Bryant.

Pietrus, who keeps a home in his native Guadeloupe in the Caribbean, had interest in the Heat but McCandless said the Heat discussed possible scenarios that could entice the veteran but never made an offer.

McCandless declined to say which team Pietrus is nearing a deal with, but said the teams that expressed interest other than the Heat were New Jersey, New York, Detroit, San Antonio, Seattle, Atlanta, Orlando, Boston and the Los Angeles Lakers.

I'll take Walter as our 'Walter' instead of Newble, thanks.
Yes, I know he'll end up elsewhere making more money, most likely Europe.

he's signing with orlando.

Is that speculation or did you read it somewhere?

ASB broke it over on MLive.

Welcome back, C-Lo. http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2057/55179107he0.png

Dang, so now do we make a strong push for Jones? His value probably goes up a little bit as all the teams going for Pietrus are now going to be taking a look at him.

Jones is signing with Miami. WDFN broke that one today.

the remaining backup SFs are Bonzi, Ricky Davis, Carlos Delfino and Maggette.

Here's hoping for Maggette or Bonzi. Or getting a backup swingman in one of our big trades that are coming.

Pietrus signed with Orlando...?

Doesn't help them IMO, they needed guards

Maggette is going to Golden State according to ESPN.

in the end, the bullshit about him wanting to go to a winner lost out to an extra million or so per year.

man, if all we do is add Delfino, I'm not renewing my season tickets...

Ugh, that would be a waste of an offseason.


HEY, AT LEAST WE GOT WAzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Question, if we compromised ourselves and gave up something for less in what we got back or got into bidding wars over positions like backup SF, would you be happy? Kinda a catch 22 there. The offseason isn't over, but nevertheless it's not like great deals have been falling into our lap, and the one known gamble Joe was willing to make was shot down by Dungver. I hate change for the sake of change personally though.

you're not talking about maggette are you? if so, i agree- he did talk a lot about wanting to go to a contender and he did end up going for the money. but it was a full $4 mil per year more than any contender could've offered him. that's $20 mil over 5 years extra.

it's pretty hard to leave that on the table i guess.


in the end, the bullshit about him wanting to go to a winner lost out to an extra million or so per year.

technically, billups cant be traded until tomorrow because of his BYC status, so joe's hands have been kinds tied thusfar.

Pietrus got 5-6 million a year, Jones at least 4, wow thats a lot... btw i like Matt Barnes, he's a more complete player than Pietrus, in my opinion when i watched the warriors...he had a good season 2 years ago, didn't get much playing time last season, but he could come cheap for a year or 2, i would consider him an upgrade over Jarvis...

We were talking about Barnes last offseason, no?

I think he was a restricted free agent last year.

Also, what about Turiaf or Vujacic...think it's worth shoving an offer sheet at either of them?

Or even Eduardo Najera???

He's not a bad player...

If Vujacic is on this team, I'm rooting for someone else.

I think he was a restricted free agent last year.

Also, what about Turiaf or Vujacic...think it's worth shoving an offer sheet at either of them?
I feel bad that i keep calling the rabbits you pull out of your hat scrubs. But......These two are scrubs.

If Vujacic is on this team, I'm rooting for someone else.
I'd take delfino over Najera, Booyourbitch, and Turiaf(turiaf is an under sized, not really something we lack). Doesn't say anything good about Delfino though.

I like Najera.

He can play multiple positions (effectively) and he plays his ass off.

There is a reason that every team that he ever played for wants him back now.

He's a very good 7th or 8th man.

I like Najera.

He can play multiple positions (effectively) and he plays his ass off.

There is a reason that every team that he ever played for wants him back now.

He's a very good 7th or 8th man.
If that's the case, then there will be a bidding war and we are out of the mix on that alone.

Personally, I don't care for his game and he has yet to crack the 6 points per game barrier. Which Delfino has while putting up the same rebounding numbers. Love Earl Watson to death and i won't hate you for it(i guess), But i can't relate to any Najera glorification.

Man the market got dry quick when i'm talking about players so bad I'd choose Delfino over them.

At least Najera is a SF, Delfino is a SG (no matter what Kstat might think).

At least Najera is a SF, Delfino is a SG (no matter what Kstat might think).
Damn Glenn you've had better comebacks. But I still say no to Najera. Smells like Jarvis Hayes part Deux. Honestly Fuck this dumb shit, resign Walter Herrmann, Yea I said it. I believe the guy can be a legit backup SF for us over Delf and Najera. 9 points a game off the bench in meaningful minutes the year before last at 19 minutes a game along with 52 percent shooting. I think in a comfortable consistent spot he can do far more damage than anybody left available. I also think his defense will get better with more playing time to figure people out.

Does it really matter what random scrub gets inserted into the game for a couple minutes here and there? None of these guys would see any minutes in the playoffs.

are we really in that bad of a situation to be talking about fkn najera? like gutz said, walter is a much better player than he is. he can play, just needs some time and minutes, something he didnt get this year.

since tay emerged, we failed to get him a backup via FA or draft. only way we get it is by trade, no free agents left

Damn Glenn you've had better comebacks. But I still say no to Najera. Smells like Jarvis Hayes part Deux. Honestly Fuck this dumb shit, resign Walter Herrmann, Yea I said it. I believe the guy can be a legit backup SF for us over Delf and Najera. 9 points a game off the bench in meaningful minutes the year before last at 19 minutes a game along with 52 percent shooting. I think in a comfortable consistent spot he can do far more damage than anybody left available. I also think his defense will get better with more playing time to figure people out.
Wrong. Najera plays defense and rebounds. I'm not sure he brings anything that Herrmann doesn't (except experience), but he brings more than Hayes. I'm not sure he's the solution, but I wouldn't mind Najera if his role is basically just backup up Prince for 15 minutes a night. He hustles and is a more consistant scorer than Hayes (needs less shots to get his points and shoots over %47 compared to Hayes and his %43).

I also wouldn't have a problem with Herrmann back either.

Think he'll (Najera) command the full MLE??

I know Denver wants to keep him, but I don't know how badly...

Think he'll (Najera) command the full MLE??

I know Denver wants to keep him, but I don't know how badly...

I doubt it. Denver also has Klieza in the mix there (who gets more minutes than Najera). Also keep in mind that Nene did not play and both Nejara and Klieza got more minutes because Denver was forced to play small with Martin at center when Camby went to the bench. If Nene plays 20-25 minutes he'll be stealing them from Najera or Klieza, and they are higher on the latter.

They want him back, but I don't think it will be for the full MLE.

No way does Najera get the full MLE.

No way.

He's a nice bench/role player, and while those guys get paid a nice chunk of change, he'll probably get no more than James Jones did ($4m/yr) and maybe as low as the BAE.

I like Vujacic, but only if Stuckey ends up starting (as a result of a trade). He's a solid backup guard but can't defend SF's so he doesn't do anything but sit behind Stuckey right now.

well if LA let's Turiaf go to GS, then I bet Kupchak will match anything short of the full MLE for Vujacic...

Sasha's not worth more than the MLE, IMO

Seriously, if that hair farmer is on the squad I'm not coming around anymore.

Seriously, if that hair farmer is on the squad I'm not coming around anymore.

Interesting.

Would you rather Joe sign Vujacic or Flip Murray? Gun to your head.

no sense overpaying for some of the leftovers out there in the marketplace.

yes, re-signing hermann makes even more sense now (although i'd prefer him as the #3 swingman not necessarily #2) but he's likely to get more lucrative offers in europe, especially with the value of the euro versus the dollar.

Jones had an offer from Joe.


Jones signs five-year contract with hometown Heat
Associated Press
Updated: July 9, 2008, 2:30 PM ET

MIAMI -- Throughout his NBA career, James Jones has always thought of the Miami Heat as his team.

And now, it finally is.

The South Florida native signed a five-year contract on Wednesday with the Heat, one that'll pay him $4 million next season and could be worth more than $23 million over the life of the deal. He had other offers, including one from the Detroit Pistons that tempted him, but ultimately Jones wanted to come home.

"For me, it's like coming full circle," Jones said. "I'm from the city. I spend all my time here and when the Heat hurt, even when I'm on another team, I still feel that pain. ... So for me, the interest from my hometown team superseded and outweighed all the other positives and pluses of the different cities, especially Detroit, that were looking for my services."

The South Florida Sun-Sentinel first reported terms of the agreement, including a clause that makes the final three years conditional -- which ensures that Miami can still have maximum spending capability during the free-agent summer of 2010, the year that Dwyane Wade can opt out of his Heat contract.

Jones, who played at the University of Miami and has been with Indiana, Phoenix and Portland in his NBA career, is a 3-point specialist, and that's an area where the Heat clearly need an upgrade.

Jones shot a career-best 44 percent from 3-point range last season. The Heat, as a team, shot 36 percent from beyond the arc a year ago.

"Everyone knows I can shoot," said Jones, who got his deal done on the first day of this year's free-agent signing period. "I love to shoot. That's what I do. I try not to step on any toes, not try to do too much, but just do what I do well, which is make shots."

It's unclear where exactly Jones will fit into the Heat rotation next season.

Miami drafted Michael Beasley, who'll likely play some minutes at both forward positions. The Heat have a contract offer pending with restricted free-agent forward Dorell Wright and still have small forward Shawn Marion and power forward Udonis Haslem -- both of whom have been mentioned as possible trade candidates. Plus, the Heat will likely still seek some help at point guard (besides rookie Mario Chalmers) and center.

"We're trying to develop and build our bench," Heat president Pat Riley said earlier this week. "I think we have to build our depth right now, first. I think that's the first priority before you make a big move."

For his part, Jones doesn't care what role he plays, as long as he gets the chance to help the Heat erase the sting of last year's dreadful, injury-plagued 15-67 season.

"If that means coming off the bench, if that means starting, if that means taking 10 shots, if that means taking one shot, for me, it's about being efficient and winning games," Jones said. "Coming here, I don't have any expectations about what position or which role I'll play. All I'm looking for is the opportunity to compete."

Remaining Free Agent's That Make Logical Sense For The Pistons According To Wilfredo Ledezma

UNRESTRICTED


Euduardo Najera (IMO, Najera would make an interesting fit here, to say the least)

James Posey (if he can get the same cash from the Lakers, or Celtics, I don't see why he'd pick us)

Matt Barnes (I don't care for him much, but he's better than Jarvis)

Michael Finley (savvy vet, knows his role and he's capable of having a big game every so often)

Kurt Thomas (we don't really need him, but in the event we make a trade this summer and give up Sheed, he'd be an adequate replacement)

Quinton Ross (he's due for a change of scenery, nobody seems to know what kind of talent he has, or if he has any at all)

Bostjan Nachbar (avg. 9 and 3 last year in just 22 mpg, that would've made him our 5th leading scorer)

Mo Evans (apparently he's not that popular on this board)

Ricky Davis (although I think he'd be a servicable bench player here, I'd consider the likelyhood of him coming here very unlikely)


RESTRICTED

Josh Smith (pipe dream?)

Josh Childress (i've seen no rumors about childress this offseason, but Sund would probably match an MLE offer)

Ryan Gomes (I've always loved his game, but I think Minny would match our offer)

Nenad Krstic (NJ has a plethura of bigs and Krstic is the odd man out, I think they'd let him walk if he get's a solid offer sheet somewhere)

Louis Williams (he doesn't really fit a need, but I love his game, and Philly may let him walk since they've already broken the bank this summer)


Carlos Delfino, C.J. Miles (I wouldn't be excited about either of these two)

Walter Herrmann (sure, why the hell not?)

My vote would go to Finley. Not sure why, but I've always liked him.

I've always liked Finley too, I remember I went to a Mavs/Pistons game like 5 years ago, and he dropped 40 on us...

He's a solid 3 pt shooter, he's big enough to guard 2's and 3's, and he avg. 10 ppg last year, he doesn't turn the ball over, makes his FT's and he has world's of experience...

Plus he wouldn't cost anywhere near the MLE...

the numbers he had in SA this year, is very similar to what Posey's numbers were for Boston. Finley may not be able to guard LeBron, but at least you know what your getting rather than expecting a guy like Pietrus to do something he may or may not be capable of...and at a fraction of the cost.

Interesting.

Would you rather Joe sign Vujacic or Flip Murray? Gun to your head.

I choose, gun to the head.

Michael Finley, 2007-08 Season

26 mpg, 10.1 ppg, 3.1 reb, 1.4 ast, 41% FG, 37% 3pt, 80% FT, 0.7 TO


James Posey, 2007-08 Season

25 mpg, 7.4 ppg, 4.4 reb, 1.5 ast, 41%FG, 38% 3pt, 80% FT, 0.9 TO


The only thing that gives Posey an edge (marketwise) is his ability to keep opposing swingmen modest (he doesn't really "shut down" anybody, but he does well on D, by most standards).

Finley's still got a little in the tank. I'd have no problem with that.

plus hes got more athleticism than posey, but since hes aging, i doubt that has any use now.

plus hes got more athleticism than posey, but since hes aging, i doubt that has any use now.


dude, how does he have no use...look at his numbers last year...and that's while playing in Pop's monotonous offense

he's got some left in the tank

i can guarantee you most of finley's points came off open 3's, jumpers, and layups. his athleticism is pretty much useless as he wont be catching alleyoops from rip or stuckey.

he averaged 10 points on the spurs, he could prboably do that here too.

i can guarantee you most of finley's points came off open 3's, jumpers, and layups. his athleticism is pretty much useless as he wont be catching alleyoops from rip or stuckey.

he averaged 10 points on the spurs, he could prboably do that here too.


Would be nice to have someone here who could hit those.

at least he can play the 3, and he'd probably only get for a 1 or 2 year deal...

sorry if already posted elsewhere

July 10, Sporting News: Lost in the shuffle of Brand's impending deal is the signing of Mickael Pietrus by the Orlando Magic, first confirmed to Florida Today by Magic general manager Otis Smith. Bill McCandless, Pietrus's agent, acknowledged the deal to Sporting News Tuesday evening...
"It will be nice," McCandless said, "to see Mickael in a normal position, away from Nellie's system. He is moving up two spots, from power forward to shooting guard."

McCandless said 11 teams were interested in Pietrus but only five were serious. It came down to Orlando or Detroit, with Atlanta also a possibility. For the Pistons, Pietrus would have been a reserve. With the Magic he will start, McCandless was told, not at power forward, but at the more natural shooting guard spot.

"It was not the most lucrative offer," McCandless said. "But the opportunity, combined with the money, to start for an up-and-coming team was too much to pass up. He could have gotten the same money, or more, from Detroit. But he would have been coming off the bench. ... It becomes a matter of timing. Orlando had the perfect spot for him. You have the threat of someone else moving into the spot. We did not want to wake up tomorrow and find that Otis had signed someone else."

McCandless said he and the Magic agreed not to release the financial terms of the deal. But he did say it is a four-year contract, with Pietrus possessing an option to terminate after three years. Another source says that the deal will be worth about $25 million over the four years.

So that's Jones and Pietrus who have passed us up. Once again our roster's success is also our curse, as there are just plain less minutes available because of our starting lineup.

I don't think Pietrus in Orlando does much for them. Scoring wise, he'll probably avg. what they're losing in Mo Evans & Keyon Dooling. Of course, defensively he's an upgrade, but that team is so abysmal on defense, one guy isn't going to make much of a difference...

Not to mention, Dooling was by far their best defensive guard, and he's not going to be back anymore...

Pietrus to ORL = Lateral move.

X-factor will be Courtney Lee, but they're still not a title contender and are behind both Cleveland and Philly in my book...

:dana:


Pistons remain relatively quiet
Detroit unsuccessful so far in pursuit of free agents

By DANA GAURUDER
Of The Oakland Press

AUBURN HILLS - Pistons president of basketball operations Joe Dumars began the offseason by declaring that he was open to trading any of his starters. He also cautioned that he wasn't looking to make a change for the sake of change.

So far, the latter sentiment has prevailed.

While there have been plenty of rumors floating around the media and on the Internet regarding potential trades, the Pistons haven't come close to making a major deal. And that's not likely to change any time soon, according to a Pistons source.

They are still exploring free agent options, but they're not close to signing any players. In fact, the month of July has actually produced less drama than the Pistons have experienced in many years.

The past two seasons, two of their most prominent players (Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups) were unrestricted free agents. During the summer of 2005, a contentious, month-long battle developed between head coach Larry Brown and owner Bill Davidson that ended in an ugly divorce. And right after the Pistons won the 2004 title, Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur became free agents.

Dumars has tried unsuccessful to land a backup wing player since the free agency market opened up this month. He made a serious run at Portland's James Jones, who opted to sign a five-year contract with Miami. The Pistons also chased Golden State's Mickael Pietrus, who received a four-year deal from Orlando.

They made inquiries about the Los Angeles Clippers' Corey Maggette, but he was out of their price range. Maggette signed a lucrative deal with Golden State, which had ample salary-cap room after the defection of point guard Baron Davis to the Clippers.

They also had an interest in Boston's James Posey, but didn't want to give a four- or five-year deal to a 31-year-old backup. Posey is being pursued by several clubs, including the Celtics.

It's still a strong possibility the Pistons will sign a lower-tier free agent for a portion of their mid-level salary exception, which is given to teams over the salary cap to sign free agents.

One surprising name that has cropped up is ex-Piston Carlos Delfino, whom the Pistons traded to Toronto a year ago. The Raptors made a qualifying offer to Delfino, a restricted free agent who averaged a career-best nine points last season, but have no real desire to retain him. They have salary-cap issues, particularly in the aftermath of their trade with Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal.

Delfino essentially whined his way out of Detroit because of his desire to play more, but the Pistons always valued his skills and feel Toronto's rejection may have humbled the Argentinian swingman.

Utah's C.J. Miles is another wing player the Pistons like, but he's a restricted free agent that the Jazz want to keep. Dumars isn't interested in getting into any bidding wars over a reserve.

I choose, gun to the head.
seconded based on those coices.

Posey decision near?

Posted by Marc J. Spears, Globe Staff July 13, 2008 11:30 PM

Celtics forward James Posey's agent, Mark Bartelstien, said Sunday that there could be "something" contract-wise for his client on Monday. Bartelstien would not divulge the interested teams, but an NBA source said that the Hornets seem to be Boston's main competition. The Celtics seem willing to give Posey the full $5.5 mid-level exception, but it seems doubtful that it will be offered more than two years. The 31-year-old seems interested in getting a four-year deal. Other teams potentially interested in Posey include Detroit, Washington and Cleveland

There might be something wrong with me, but I'm not excited about signing Posey at all, especially at the kind of $ and for multiple years.

He's a nice defender, but we go through enough scoring ruts without having another offensive dud on the floor.

I bet Curry loves him, though (probably reminds him of himself).

If we sign a defensive player, I'd rather it be a big that can shore up our rebounding, too. Or a PG that can stop dribble penetration.

Posey's fine when he's surrounded by stars and defenders have to sag off of him, but that won't be the case here.

yeah, I think it's a longshot Posey comes here, and if he did, he'd be the new Nazy Mohammed

5 million for this...?

What do you guys think about bringing Chris Andersen in for a look?

He's visited the Celtics, but they didn't make him an offer.

I can't imagine that it would take much more than half the MLE for a guy with his baggage.

Just a thought.

Just..... no.

Tons of intensity, rebounding, hustle plays. Those guys are good to have around. Its just a matter of whether his baggage is behind him, which it really sounds like it is from everything I've read. Only problem I see is that we've already got a glut of PF's and he's not big enough to play center. If we ended up making a trade that thinned out or PF spot, I wouldn't mind having him as a 3rd string PF.

no thanks to anderson. we've got j-max and amir to fill that role. i don't think he'd get more than the vet's minimum anyway.

i just hope whoever signs him writes it into his contract that he's not allowed to compete in the dunk contest again.

we've got j-max and amir to fill that role.
That's why I said if we traded one of them. If Max is gone, Amir steps into his role and Anderson could step into Amir's old role for the vets minimum. I'd take him at that low of a price, its no risk.

OK sorry i missed that part of what you said.

i have a feeling the birdman might fly to somewhere like denver, houston, or san antonio. not sure why i think that, but....

All seem like decent nests.

If Joe is going to take his time considering trades, why not sign someone like Childress to an offer sheet for the full MLE?

Most likely, Atlanta will match, but it's not like having our MLE tied up for a week is that big of a deal if we're not going to use it in the immediate future.

Just thinking out loud.

If nothing else it might be a good PR move. Then again it may backfire as "there's another guy we were interested in but didn't get".

^true. tying up the MLE doesn't matter much to us right now. Plus with the Smith situation they may be leery to match anyway.

And that might be the other part of this. Maybe Joe is hoping that someone else will sign Childress to the MLE offer sheet so it will give him leverage to negotiate a S&T for Smith?

Yeah, if we sign Childress and hose them I doubt they want to talk S&T with Smith to us.

Well I wasn't thinking that we'd get both, more likely Atl freaks out that someone has signed Childress and in order to match, they need to S&T Smith someplace else (Det?) and get as much as they can (shorter term deals, most likely).

Right. But if we signed Childress and they matched (or thought about it), there is no way they talk to us about a S&T at all for Smith. They'd be mad we forced their hand. They'd talk to someone else.

I think we can agree that if Joe determines that we're out of the running for Smith, why not get an offer sheet from Childress?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/07/17/miles/index.html

Good article on Darius Miles. If he really is back to 100% and just wants a season on a playoff team to prove himself, would you bring him in as a backup SF for cheap? No risk, cut him if you don't like what you're getting. If he turns out to be a stud, you get a season of a stud off the bench and it gives you even more flexibility. He's not commanding much money because he's still got $18million coming from the Blazers.

^ personally he does nothing for me. he's a one dimensional player who belongs on an up tempo team where he can run and dunk all night.

there's nothing he can do that amir doesn't already give us- and more.

JMO

yeah it wouldn't hurt if you signed him and just cut him. but he would occupy a roster spot, which we have very few of.

yeah it wouldn't hurt if you signed him and just cut him. but he would occupy a roster spot, which we have very few of.

Don't we have 4 right now?

Yes we do. Bynum (or Hunter) will take up one. Another big will take up one (maybe Ratliff). That still leaves Hayes old spot and Herrmann's old spot. Sharpe will take one of them, but there's still another spot for a backup wing.

And he and Amir aren't the same, seeing as Amir is a PF and doesn't play SF. As much as everyone here keeps talking about how he can play SF for us, he doesn't, so we shouldn't pretend he can play any SF minutes for us.

So what's the current tally of how many offers has Joe extended to free agents that haven't been accepted?

The lack of a signing or trade makes it seem like Joe's been inactive, when it's clear that he's been very busy preparing inadequate offers for free agents.

name one player that he could have realistically gotten without overpaying.

Pietrus, Posey, Maggette, James Jones, shit even Delfino all got insane contracts.

If Joe would have signed those guys to the deals they got, he'd be getting roasted in here right now.

Settle down, lol. It's just interesting to see "Detroit" listed as a top suitor for all of these guys signing elsewhere.

I was joking for the most part, but it's true that he's been putting a lot of work into talking to all of these free agents and making offers.

Some fans like to think that the Pistons are one of those "destination" places where free agents will take less to be part of a winning organization, but that's obviously not the case anymore, if it ever was.

Maggette chose golden state over san antonio and Boston.

Not one of these decisions have been based on winning.

Just heard on the radio that there are Josh Smith rumblings coming out of the Pistons front office, according to multiple sources. Right now Josh Smith is #1 on our list and Beidrins is #2, especially now that Turiaf has signed that offer sheet.

Just heard on the radio that there are Josh Smith rumblings coming out of the Pistons front office, according to multiple sources. Right now Josh Smith is #1 on our list and Beidrins is #2, especially now that Turiaf has signed that offer sheet.

Any more details? You are referring to Drew Sharp's comments, right?

I see some fanboys are already claiming that Sharp said we are offering Biedrins the MLE because GSW can't match and that Tay and Amir are going to Atlanta for Smith.

i know amir isn't a SF i merely made the comparison because of their style of play. both are amazing athletes who can run the floor, finish above the rim and get a lot of points on putbacks/dunks.

unlike darius, amir can block shots and rebound too and he's also a lot healthier.

Not sure who it was. It was on the Ticket though. He is saying that we can potentially get Biedrins for the full MLE because Golden State won't have the ability to match it after they resign Ellis. Not sure how true that is. I thought they had the right to match whatever we threw at him.

Yeah, I think they have Biedrins' Bird rights, so they can go over the cap to sign him if they want to.

What would we want Biedrins for? I really don't get it. You know he's not going to play ahead of Rasheed and McDyess. Would he really be ahead of Max in the rotation? I guess I could see that, but I just don't see a need for him on this team.

Edit: After watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEBnVkzUjik I sort of like him. All of his buckets came in the paint, and he seems like he can actually play in the half court.

He wouldn't be fighting with Max. He's a center. He's 7 feet tall. We need a true center, someone that battles down low, plays post defense. This is one of those guys.

He wouldn't be fighting with Max. He's a center. He's 7 feet tall. We need a true center, someone that battles down low, plays post defense. This is one of those guys.

Adding a big man to the bench means he's fighting for minutes with someone. I know he's a center, and that he's 6'11'' but where would he play? We could send Dyess back to the bench and start Biedrins. I guess I'd support the move in this case.

I would.

Golden State has said that they would match any offer so I don't see any chance of us getting him. Plus he is their only real center.

tay and amir for josh smith sounds good to me..no?

tay and amir for josh smith sounds good to me..no?
No...

If Joe meant what he said about significant changes, then why not none other than...

SUPER DUPE


Dupree seeking right fit in NBA

By RANDY ROSETTA
Advocate sportswriter
Published: Jul 18, 2008 - UPDATED: 6:28 a.m.

At some point, former LSU standout Ronald Dupree might have to turn loose of his current dream.

For now, though, Dupree is willing to give the NBA a little longer.

Dupree has kicked around in the league for six seasons, with his playing time dwindling each year. In 2007-08, the 6-foot-7, 209-pound swingman played in only five games.

But a late stint with Seattle at the end of last year left the door open, and Dupree played with the franchise’s summer league team in hopes of getting a serious look when players report in October.

“I played summer league with them and that was the plan when I got with them with last year,” said Dupree, who ranks eighth on LSU’s all-time scoring list with 1,726 points and seventh in rebounds with 907. Dupree was the Tigers’ leading scorer in 2001, ’02 and ’03, topping 500 points each season. “They have a young team and they’re building with youth and trying to get better. I’d like to be a part of that, but at the end of day it has to be something that fits for me.”

Dupree has floated around the fringe of the NBA the last few years, signing a series of 10-day contracts with Detroit, Minnesota and Seattle. He spent his rookie season — his most productive year — with Chicago and averaged 6.2 points and 3.6 rebounds.

He still hopes to latch on with a team and play in the league for several more years. Dupree pointed to Brandon Bass’ emergence with the Dallas Mavericks as a blueprint he hopes to follow.

“I need to find a system that fits the way I play and a coach who will give me an opportunity to develop, similar to what Brandon Bass has found in Dallas,” Dupree said. “He went to a team that has been successful and he played well and even got some playoff experience, which is huge for a young guy. I want to stick with a franchise and grow with them and I think in the right situation I could be a very solid player for a long time.”

Could that be with the Sonics, who are in flux right now? Dupree said the team showed up in Orlando with Seattle practice gear, but by the time games began the players were outfitted with generic uniforms representing their pending move to Oklahoma City.

“They are starting over as a franchise and that’s something I’d like to be part of,” Dupree said.

He also wouldn’t rule out a return to Detroit, the team he’s played 67 games for. The Pistons made an offseason coaching change, elevating assistant Mike Curry to the top job.

Dupree and Curry played against each other and their paths have crossed often in the NBA Developmental League.

“I wish he would have gotten the job a year earlier because he definitely would help develop my game,” Dupree said. “He was a great hire for Detroit.”

if we bring back Super Dupe as our main backup SF, we just might blow it up, trade Dice,Sheed and Chauncey for a back of chips and rebuild, because it seems like we can't get good value for those guys anway

i love dupree. but please- i don't want to see him back in detroit again.

it would make for a great 'you, me, and dupree' headline though.

ehhhhh


Devean George a Piston? It could happen
by A. Sherrod Blakely
Monday July 21, 2008, 8:25 PM

AUBURN HILLS -- With most of the "big-name" free agent small forwards off the board, the Detroit Pistons' chances of landing a player that can help them at the 3-spot via free agency seems slim.

But there's one player that's available, who just might be a nice fit.

That player is Devean George.

He's a nine-year veteran who has spent the bulk of his career as a backup, which is exactly what the Pistons are looking for.

George also has the experience of being in big games, and contributing to winning championships - all traits Detroit wants more of on its roster.

And he comes into this season looking for a fresh start, because the lasting memory most fans have of him is how he refused to be part of the trade in Dallas that eventually went through -- without him being included -- that landed the Mavericks Jason Kidd.

There's no doubt he's looking for an opportunity to distance himself as far from all that nonsense as he can.

How about Detroit?

George's agent, Mark Bartelstein, confirmed that he has had some talks with the Pistons regarding George, but no deal is imminent. Bartelstein said he had some brief discussions with Detroit about another one his clients, Dahntay Jones.

Jones is an exceptional athlete whose play this summer really helped boost his stock in the eyes of many throughout the NBA. But the level of the Pistons' interest is unclear.

Stay tuned.

I'm too lazy to look for the puke emoticon.

: puke :

Okay, let's try to guess how McCosky is going to handle this news when he reads ASB's report from his cushy recliner.

-- There is no truth to this, it's a fabrication

-- It's true that the Pistons are interested, but everbody knows that already, so this is no big deal

-- George's agent is trying to get his guy more $ by leaking these discussions. "Listen people, Joe D doesn't play that game."

More?

Don't forget:

George ruined the Dallas Mavericks, so why would Joe D want that cancer?

i can't believe i'm saying this, but i think george would be an upgrade over hayes. but then again...that's not saying a whole lot considering what we got out of him.

3.7 points and 2.6 rebounds per with 36% shooting (32% from beyond the arc). Sounds like a real stud.

Bynum, Pistons putting finishing touches on deal

Tuesday, July 22, 2008
By A. Sherrod Blakely

AUBURN HILLS -- Will Bynum walked away from lucrative offers overseas for a shot at making the Detroit Pistons squad as their No. 3 point guard.

Bynum's gamble has paid off now that he has agreed to a multi-year deal with Detroit.

"It's pretty much a done deal now," Bynum said.

Bynum's agent, Mark Bartlestein, confirmed Monday night that his client has agreed to a two-year deal with Detroit, which includes a team option for the second season.

"He's very excited about it," Bartlestein said.

Bynum, whose previous NBA experience consisted of 15 games with the Golden State Warriors during the 2005-2006 season, said he got the offer from Pistons coach Michael Curry on Sunday night.

"Man, it was like a dream come true when I got that call," Bynum said. "I've been waiting all my life for an opportunity like this. I can't wait to get started."

Bynum, who played for Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israel the past two seasons, said one of the turning points for him came after Detroit's second summer league game when he and Pistons president Joe Dumars had "a long talk."

"He (Dumars) just sat me down and said, 'just relax and do what you do.'" Bynum recalled. "I really needed that."

Bynum's play improved at both ends of the floor, showcasing the skills that made him the 2006 Development League rookie of the Year.

In his last game of the summer league against the Charlotte Bobcats, Bynum got the start and responded with a 16-point effort in leading Detroit to a 78-67 win.

He isn't the only player from Detroit's summer league team expected to sign a multi-year deal soon.

The first of the Pistons' three second-round picks in last month's NBA draft, Walter Sharpe, is expected to sign a two-year deal as well.

Sharpe's contract likely will be guaranteed for both seasons, which would make it similar to the two-year deals signed by previous second-round picks currently on the Pistons' roster, Amir Johnson and Cheikh Samb.

So I'm wondering if anything can be read into the signing of Bynum, specifically the status of Lindsey Hunter.

3.7 points and 2.6 rebounds per with 36% shooting (32% from beyond the arc). Sounds like a real stud.

Yeah, not really. His career numbers aren't a lot better either (39% shooting and %34 from behind the arc). I think he does play defense though. I would put his offense slightly below Hayes and his defense better. They are probably a wash overall.

He's probably a decent plan B, but I wouldn't chase after him. Hopefully Joe has bigger things on his plate than George.