I just heard Blakely on the radio and he said something that surprised me.

He said, after talking to Joe D today, he wouldn't be surprised at all if the "core four" returned next year. He says he is basing that on Joe stating that he won't take inequal value for these guys. (Which sounds like common sense to me, not a revelation of any kind)

Who do you think will be gone next year?

NOTE: This is not who do you WANT gone, but rather, who do you think Joe is going to actually move via trade.

NOTE 2: The poll option that reads "All four will be back" is meant to mean that "All four will be back" next year.

Is this by the trade deadline or the beginning of the season?

I think they'll all be back...

and the excuse we'll get as to how we're better is that Stuckey will have grown

i don't think we can get a better bigman than Sheed by just trading Sheed, so he might be worth more at the deadline with his big expiring contract, if we move some of them in the offseason it might the the best option to move one of Chauncey+x oder Tax+x , x beeing Maxiell :p that might give us the most in return

I think they'll all be back...

and the excuse we'll get as to how we're better is that no good players are willing to whore themselves out for Big Lots prices

I think we move billups and maybe even sheed if someone offers up a big deal. Though it hasn't been said, i think Rip and Tay are sacred to the point of needing some serious offers for them to be canned.

I think there's a 60 percent chance everyone stays at the moment.

^I think it's the other way around.
We move Sheed and maybe even Billups.

I heard Mike Rosenberg on the radio yesterday and he thinks Chauncey is the most likely to be moved, followed by Sheed.

Take that for what it is worth.

I heard Mike Rosenberg on the radio yesterday and he thinks Chauncey is the most likely to be moved, followed by Sheed.

Take that for what it is worth.

Most likely to be moved by when??? the begining of the season? Trade deadline? Your sentence is unclear. j/k

Check the thread title, lol.

Yes, before next season.

i vote Chauncey. it's too difficult to get a bigman as talented as Sheed back in a trade, without giving up the farm. i think Joe D hopes that Sheed will respond positivitely to Curry and Pat Sullivan.

Chauncey as a veteran, big PG is a tradeable guy, especially since we've got a young, big PG on the backburner.

Chauncey's the easiest to replace...but I'm not sure what kind of value you can get in return for him...

Do you think other GM's frown on his contract? Although that team option for year 5 makes things easier...

:mccosky:


With Michael Curry taking over the coaching reins and former Tar Heel Pat Sullivan back on the staff, it has the appearance that Pistons president Joe Dumars is Sheed-proofing things for next season.

My initial reaction was, these moves were done at least in part with the idea that Rasheed Wallace will be back next season.

Not so much.

Dumars gave me an emphatic "no" when I raised that question last week. The hiring of Curry and Sullivan (Wallace's former roomie at Chapel Hill) were done for the benefit of the entire team as it moves forward. It, Dumars said, has no bearing on whether Wallace will be traded or not.

What will determine whether Wallace gets moved, probably the only thing, is what he can bring in return. The fact that Wallace's $13.7 million contract comes off the books after next season both helps and hinders attempts to move him.

It helps entice teams to take a chance on him because it's a short-term risk, but most teams aren't going to give up star-quality talent for a guy who could leave after one season.

Remember this, though -- Dumars isn't in any rush to make a deal. The real trade deadline isn't until the end of next February. It wouldn't be the worst idea to start the season with Wallace (assuming Dumars can't swing a win-win trade) and see where things go.

First, having Wallace in a contract year is never a bad thing. I don't get the sense that he's ready to retire, so he will be grinding for his next, and probably last, deal.

Second, Wallace's value could be a lot higher in the middle of next season, especially to a team that may be on the brink of being a title contender. And if that team on the brink of contending is the Pistons, all the better.

Jamie Samuelsen


Returning assistant coach doesn't mean 'Sheed's staying a Piston
June 16, 2008

Jamie Samuelsen blogs for freep.com. His opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the Detroit Free Press or its writers. You can hear Jamie 6-8 a.m. weekdays on WDFN-AM (1130). You can reach him at jamsam22@aol.com and read more of his opinions at freep.com/jamie.

Should people read into the Pistons hiring Rasheed Wallace’s ex-teammate Pat Sullivan as an assistant?

I’m as guilty as the next guy of saying, “See! Clearly they’re bringing 'Sheed back,” when I first saw the news. But the more I think about it, the more I think that’s just too simplistic.

First, I really do believe that Joe Dumars will exhaust every option on reworking the roster. And Wallace is a very tradable commodity because of his size and because of his contract. Even if Wallace is part of a larger multi-player trade, you still have to keep his name out there, keep it in play.

Secondly, with all due respect to Pat Sullivan, can anyone truly control Rasheed Wallace? Larry Brown was here for one-plus years of the 'Sheed era and Wallace still spent an inordinate amount of time at the three-point line, still doubled off Robert Horry in the NBA Finals and still picked up a bunch of technical fouls. And yet we somehow look back on those days as the golden era of Rasheed Wallace in Detroit. You hear so many people say that Larry Brown “controlled” 'Sheed or that the Tar Heel connection kept them close. I see the same Wallace now that I saw then, when Brown was the coach and Sullivan was on the staff.

I’m sure Sullivan is a fine coach. But to view him as some sort of 'Sheed liaison or 'Sheed controller is an insult to Sullivan and a bit of an insult to common sense.

I’d still trade Wallace. But if he stays, I expect the same wild fluctuation between brilliant play and debilitating headache.

Sheed sucks... I can't understand why he's held with such high regard... low % shooting big... below avg perimeter defender ... rarely comes up with a loose ball... always in foul trouble... oh yeah he does have that killer game once in five tries.... we would get better production and help defense from one or two other bigs given the same burn.

Sheed's big claim to fame had been that he could turn on his "A" game for elite PF/C sorts (and random white boys). I'm not sure if he can do that anymore, not in the course of a long stretch of games (aka playoffs). He did a number on Dwight Howard for a spell. But, by the time we got to KG, he was looking old and crap.

Sheed's not always in foul trouble,. Especially given how he relates to the refs, that is remarkable. His foul rate is nearly on par with Tim Duncan. But. his foul rate during the playoffs was higher than during the regular season. I think this goes back to the "can't bring A game consistently" stuff above. I'm expecting a sizable dropofff the moment he gets his next/likely-last contract.

And of course, if you want to be technical about it, that's a whole different story. But, Rip's in the same boat with techs.

James (detroit): What are your thoughts on Rodney Stuckey's upside? He's as quick as the smaller pg's, but he's much stronger and bigger. He needs to play 30+ minutes a game this year.

Chad Ford: (2:11 PM ET ) He will. The Pistons love him and know they need to get him major minutes. That's why they've put Chauncey and Rip on the trade block. Stuckey is a great story in a lot of ways ... he shows that the draft process isn't perfect. No way Stuckey should've slipped past the Sonics at No. 5. How great would they be right now? But instead 14 teams pass on him. Wow. Happened with Rondo too. We had him ranked No. 7 on our big board. He should've been ranked even higher.

Does that imply that they're the only ones really on the block? I hope not.

I doubt it. One should be packaged with Sheed for a great big man. My guess is RIP because he has more value.

I would be more unhappy to see Billups on this team next year then Rasheed.

As usual, I share Fool's opinion. I would like to see what Rasheed is capable of with a defensive minded coach that he respects. Sheed is still the heart of this team, and as lazy as he gets from time to time, the team still beats to Rasheed's drum.

In case you missed it, SAS says that Sheed told him that this is his last season.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080622/SPORTS03/80622040/1051/SPORTS03

Yeah, I missed that.

It was at the All-Star break, so I don't pay it much mind. Sheed really didn't want to be there, because he wanted to camp out with his family. Sheed's made a ton of money, but I suspect the prospect of an MLE-ish deal for a few years after next will cause CTC to come out and play.

What player(s) will the Detroit Pistons trade in the 08-09 offseason?

(If more then one Detroit Piston is traded in the 08-09 offseason regardless of the number of trades, then only the "More then 1 of these players" will be graded as the winner.)

Chauncey Billups
2/1

Rasheed Wallace
4/1

Rip Hamilton
10/1

Tayshaun Prince
13/4

More then 1 of these players
2/1

None of these Players
4/1

:mccosky:


Pistons' Dumars won't change just for change's sake

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

AUBURN HILLS -- While his fan base rants and raves, while some of his competitors pull off minor coups and others dish out oversized contracts to underwhelming talent, Joe Dumars waits.

He has poked around. He has made some offers. He has explored some possible deals. But mostly he has stepped back from the fray. He knows when to hold them.

Dumars, the Pistons' president, isn't trying to see how many introductory news conferences he can hold in July and August. He isn't trying to make headlines or appease knee-jerking fans by overpaying for a tier-two free agent. His mission is to improve the team, not change some of the names on the uniforms.

So he waits. Sooner or later, the right deal will present itself. If not, then what is the worst-case scenario? He goes into the season with pretty much the same team he had last season. And that team won 59 games and made it to the conference finals for the sixth straight season. That team has a new coach, and it includes several young and upcoming players whose growth and maturity alone could change the dynamics of the group.

If that is your worst-case scenario, then why would you feel compelled to take a risk or make any kind of lateral move?

Not the end of the world
Dumars has to figure he has at least 50 wins in his pocket right now. He has a team that, as is presently constructed, will likely be among the top four in the Eastern Conference. Now, is it a legitimate title contender? Without knowing the exact impact Rodney Stuckey might have playing a full season, without knowing the impact Amir Johnson might make as a full-time rotation player, it's hard to say.

Still, given the age of the starting five and the disappointments of the last two seasons, the Pistons aren't anyone's first choice to win the East next season.

But it wouldn't be cataclysmic to start the season with the current edition mostly intact. The Pistons could measure the impact of the new coach and the internal growth for the first four months and then, if necessary, make changes before the February trade deadline.

Naturally, fans and some in the media won't abide such a patient stand. Many have grown weary of this current Pistons cast. Many appreciate their long and successful run -- and many feel they have jumped the shark.

Any change would be cheered. At first. But, again, that is not Dumars' mission. He wants to win now and every year hence. You don't do that by trading down on or selling off all-star players, or by overextending your payroll for back-end-of-the-rotation guys.

Coming home to roost
Dumars brought some of the furor on himself. He was the one who told the world there were no sacred cows on his roster and every player was potential trade-bait.

Those words resonated so loudly they drowned out the second part of his message. He emphatically stated there wouldn't be any fire sale. He wasn't giving any cut-rate deals. He wasn't taking another team's second- or third-best player, let alone its garbage.

The fact Dumars hasn't had any legitimate offers probably has surprised him. What he might be finding out is, guys like Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince have more value to the Pistons than they might have to other teams. He might have misjudged what a 31-year-old point guard like Billups or a 33-year-old talent like Rasheed Wallace might be worth.

But that doesn't mean Dumars should lower his standards.

Don't think for a minute Dumars is done for the summer. He has not yet resigned himself to bringing the entire core back.

There is an outside chance he could get back into the bidding for Atlanta's Josh Smith. If Smith truly wants to leave Atlanta, and the Los Angeles Clippers don't pony up the right kind of contract, the Hawks could try to negotiate a sign-and-trade deal.

Golden State, which needs a point guard, has some talented pieces (Al Harrington, Matt Barnes, future draft picks) that might entice Dumars.

James Posey is still on the market.

Dumars will keep pushing and probing. But if at the end of the day the old core group was back, fortified by a more battle-tested group of hungry young talent, it doesn't necessarily mark the end of relevancy for the Pistons.

Still, given the age of the starting five and the disappointments of the last three seasons, the Pistons aren't anyone's first choice to win the East next season.

Fixed.

Discussion topic:

If no significant move is made (the Core Four all return) what do you think the effect on home attendance will be (if any)?

In other words, are Pistons fans tired of this team as currently constructed, and will they speak with their wallets?

Do they require something "new and exciting" to come out to the games?

I think it will affect attendance. Especially with the Cup win and Hossa signing down the road. It won't be like the teal days, but there will be some empty seats. The vets and their turn it on and off mentality won't draw huge crowds anymore.

Now if Stuckey and Amir get some serious run and play well you might garner some more interest.

Definitely if Stuckey starts playing more, Amir starts playing more, Samb makes a few appearances here and there, and Sharpe gets the backup SF spot, it won't take much of a hit. It will still take a hit, but having all that young talent brings excitement that fans like, even if the team only plays as hard as they think they need to.

I think the fanbase as a whole is spoiled enough that attendance might take a small dip no matter what they do--unless they bring in a new marquee name.

If the core comes back intact, they could win 83 (what, there's only 82? Exactly.) games in the regular season and still not make more than a small dent in fan cynicism.

JAMIE SAMUELSEN'S BLOG
Todd Jones may be frustrating, but not like Rasheed Wallace

August 18, 2008

Jamie Samuelsen blogs for freep.com. His opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the Detroit Free Press or its writers. You can reach him at jamsam22@gmail.com and read more of his opinions at freep.com/jamie.


Todd Jones went back on the disabled list. Many have grown frustrated with him over his career, but who’s the most frustrating athlete in recent Detroit sports history?

Maybe the easiest question I’ve ever gotten. Sure there have been plenty of Lions who showed flashes, and made you nuts. Joey Harrington, Charles Rogers, Shaun Rogers just to name a few. Shaun in fact is a great candidate for this question, but not the answer.

For me, far and away, the answer is Rasheed Wallace. I don’t think any athlete I’ve ever watched or covered has driven me more nuts than 'Sheed. Maybe it’s because he can be so good. Maybe it’s because some suggest he’s talented enough to be one of the greatest players of all time. And maybe it’s because his ardent backers are always telling me that I just don’t “understand” him. He’s a great teammate they say. He cares about playing the game the right way so much so that it takes away from his individual game. Whatever. I’m almost as sick of the blather surrounding Rasheed as I am of the player himself.

I just wish I knew what to expect night in and night out. Maybe the paper could start listing Rasheed’s status the same way they do the starting pitchers in baseball. If Rasheed planned to care that night, they could indicate it in the game preview. Or if he planned to be passive and lazy, they could let us know too. Who would have thought we’d get that Rasheed in Game 6 against the Celtics, but that’s exactly what we got. Oh well.

I know how important he is. I get all that. I even wrote earlier this summer that I think he’s impossible to trade because there’s no way to match his value in the open market.

A frustrating player is one who you know has the ability. They also have the inability to bring it out every night. No player in sports has ever illustrated that better than Wallace.

:cogent:

I think Jamie Samuelsen and the rest of organized society needs to realize that Rasheed was 33 last year and is about to be 34. People at that age are rarely asked to carry a NBA team and an even smaller few have proven capable of achieving that task on a consistent basis.

The dude is old by NBA standards.

Bird was a gimp at 32. Magic was out of the league at 31 due to aids and Zeke retired at 32 and these are 3 of the best to ever play the game.

Really only Jordan was a guy capable of being a consistent, dominant player at the age of 33 winning a championship in a depleted league. There are probably others but that's all moot.

And I understand that sheed is none of those players mentioned above.

I think whomever the fuck jamie samuelsen is needs to understand what we're dealing with here with Rasheed. He's an aging, regressing role player that will occasionally rise to the occasion when called upon or when he feels is necessary. What are people expecting out of rasheed?

Are there other 34 year olds out there that are better than rasheed? (He'll soon be 34)

Can anyone name one? C-Webb? Theo Ratliff? Juwon Howard? Michael Finley? Ben Wallace? Eric Snow?

Dare I say he's the best 34+ year old in the league next year? Would you rather have kidd or sheed? Shaq? Grant Hill?

Too bad we had to waste that kind of talent forcing him to play for a walking, blubbering pile of feces like Flip Saunders.

Sheed was frustrating as a player before he turned 34. Samuelsen's talking about past performance, for the most part. The question asked was recent Detroit sports history, not so much "what's Sheed gonna be like next season".


Are there other 34 year olds out there that are better than rasheed?
I'd take Camby over Sheed, and Camby's nearly as frustrating with his injury history. At least he generally does his thing on the floor. And arguably, the best 34 year old today is Nash...

BubblesTheLion, Joe Asberry, longshanks, Matt, micknugget, surlybird

Off by just 2 games

FYI - I just voted "All four will be back."

Once again, MoTown is correct.

Damn, I left it open too long.

I just want to add that surlybird always seems to nail these things.

What do I win?

Nothing - you were wrong. Only myself, Wil, gee and Srt8 were correct.

What do we win?