It seems the rumors of Carmelo for Billups are burning up the airwaves today. The National media looks split as to the benefits for the Pistons.

Positives:

-Outstanding mid-range shooter

-Excellent slasher and finisher

-Winner at both NCAA and international levels

-Creates his own offense

-Gives us someone to match up with LeBron and Pierce

-Is only 24 years old

Negatives:

-Defense is suspect

-Makes $47 million over the next 3 seasons, with a player option year for $18 million

-Assist/turnover ratio is terrible

-Sucker-punched a guy on the floor and ran away like a bitch

-Has not shown the ability to win on the NBA level

-Sucker girly-slapped a guy on the floor and ran away like a bitch



Fixed

So there's a yes option and a no option, why so black and white?

Hmmm... I am confident Maxey would at least tell him how to eat a baby or two. I really liked his game in college, and still do but now question his personality where I did not before... It's a tough call, but I'm ready for a shakeup.

We need instant offense, or easy baskets or a guy who can get his own shot. That's more or less the same isn't it?

Anyway if it means rolling the dice on a head case, maybe we just have to do it. It'll be the first time, but hey...oh wait, never mind.

He's one of my favorite players to watch, but now that we're looking at the possibility of him becoming a Piston I'll have to think about it. Consider me on the fence for now.

You just posted that. Why did you delete it and repost it?

^I'm ready for a shake-up as well. We've haven't had a great 1-on-1 scorer in a while, as we've focused on the whole "team" aspect. I'd love to see him in a Piston uni, as long as we have some guys on our roster ready to put him in check hen he gets bitchy.

You just posted that. Why did you delete it and repost it?

That's just how I roll.

On Anthony. He has issues, but best case, he comes in and performs very well, giving us a legitimate shot at a championship assuming we do not give up too much else. Worst case, he ends up just being a solid player with some issues that we could deal with. I say the risk is probably worth it at this point... We can't expect the same results from the same roster, something must change. The most important thing is, this will probably be the best offer/deal we are going to look at talent-for-talent. I say we do it.

The deal thats' being assumed right now is Carmelo for Billups straight up, and seeing that they make pretty much the same money, it fits.

Chauncey being a home-grown Denver guy is another selling point.

Rip and Melo playing together? I can dig it. I'm on board.

I just can't see a Billups/Iverson backcourt...

I just can't see a Billups/Iverson backcourt...

Why not? He's Eric Snow with talent.

Stern prolly told JoeD if he wants to go further than the ECFs, you need a guy like Melo.

And ESPN already has reels and reels of highlights of Melo.

We'll be loved again. :)

I'm calling it: Darko to the Nuggets.

I'm calling it: Darko to the Nuggets.

He'd be an upgrade from Tskitishvili....

Does Tskitishmilivanilli still play?

Does getting Melo put us in a position where we have to deal Tay? Would this then be the first deal in a series of deals?

The deal thats' being assumed right now is Carmelo for Billups straight up, and seeing that they make pretty much the same money, it fits.

Chauncey being a home-grown Denver guy is another selling point.

If it's straight up (or without giving up a whole lot more) I say it's definitely worth the risk. It gets sketchy when we start talking about giving Tay or Sheed as well while taking back other iffy pieces.

Agree with that FP.

I don't care what we do as long as we trade Rasheed.
I can't have two headcases on the same team.

What does Joe Johnson's contract look like?

Just thinking out loud, if I remember correctly his defense is putrid as well...

Johnson isn't a bad defender. He's actually a good defender, if I remember correctly.

Does getting Melo put us in a position where we have to deal Tay? Would this then be the first deal in a series of deals?

I would think so.

Besides, we'd need to load up on frontcourt defense to compliment him.

What does Joe Johnson's contract look like?

Just thinking out loud, if I remember correctly his defense is putrid as well...

He makes $14 million next year, and $15 million the next.

So does CBill still have family in Colorado? Or is that just where he went to Skoo?

What about a complementary deal where we send Rip, Tay, and maybe say Amir for Smith and Johnson? Although that still leaves us two headcases...

PG Stuckey/....
SG Johnson/..../Afflalo
SF Anthony/Max/Herrmann
PF Smith/Dyess/Max
C Sheed/Dyess

So does CBill still have family in Colorado? Or is that just where he went to Skoo?

Born in Denver.

Ahh, Johnson's contract is bigger than I thought/hoped.

What about a complementary deal where we send Rip, Tay, and maybe say Amir for Smith and Johnson? Although that still leaves us two headcases...

PG Stuckey/....
SG Johnson/..../Afflalo
SF Anthony/Max/Herrmann
PF Smith/Dyess/Max
C Sheed/Dyess


Atlanta would never do that deal. They'd be getting hopelessly robbed. Even Rick Sund isn't that dumb.

Atlanta finally has a playoff team. I doubt they're in a hurry to deal their two best players.

What does Joe Johnson's contract look like?

Just thinking out loud, if I remember correctly his defense is putrid as well...

JJ's solid on D. I would love to have him, but I think the asking price would be too high.

Born in Denver.

I say send his ass home. Tell him we're just doing it for him.

Atlanta would never do that deal. They'd be getting hopelessly robbed. Even Rick Sund isn't that dumb.

Atlanta finally has a playoff team. I doubt they're in a hurry to deal their two best players.

Yeah you have a point. I am either overrating our players or undervaluing theirs, one of the two...

Maybe a little bit of both?

NO. ONE OF THE TWO, I SAID.

Yep, I'm going to say a little bit of both.

I agree with the...If we get melo, sheed has to go' sentiment. And I would make sure Sheed is gone before the season starts.

If you're looking for a player like Josh Smith though, Gerald Wallace apparently can be had. LB is excited about the possibility of putting Sheed next to Okafor.

On the negative side, Melo and Gerald Wallace would leave us without a true power forward. We'd need a massive center to protect the paint.

I wouldn't have a problem with keeping Sheed if we get Melo. Just make sure the two of them don't get in a car together.

I think Sheed has to go no matter what happens, so it's a moot point for me.

And WTF does that mean for AI? Wish he played D, and was younger, and was a lil taller, and passed the ball a lil more, and...

If you're looking for a player like Josh Smith though, Gerald Wallace apparently can be had. LB is excited about the possibility of putting Sheed next to Okafor.

On the negative side, Melo and Gerald Wallace would leave us without a true power forward. We'd need a massive center to protect the paint.

Can Wallace play SG?

AI is much older and makes a lot more money than Carmelo.

He isn't going to bring the same kind of value.

AI is much older and makes a lot more money than Carmelo.

He isn't going to bring the same kind of value.

But if they made the deal, does that mean the end of AI in Denver?

Can Wallace play SG?

No. He's a terrible shooter, and you'd want Rip to play alongside Melo anyway, to space the floor.

He does have a set shot 3 from the corner that he can hit well enough, but that's it. He doesn't shoot well outside of 5-8 feet.

On the plus side, he seems to realize he can't shoot, which is something nobody has apparently told Josh Smith yet.

I'm a GW fan, I think it'd be cool to have him here...of course, until he fucks up, in which case we'd all be calling for his head. Hey, he's a Wallace.

Elton Brand might be a good fit for Melo, no? Doesn't need the ball, stay underneath defensively ( I think ) to rebound.

But if they made the deal, does that mean the end of AI in Denver?

No, simply because I don't think they can move him. He's much older and makes more money.

If Dumars, who is one of the few GMs with the ability to make a deal wants no part of him, then he isn't being moved, except for scraps on expiring contracts.

What about Kevin Martin? Kings willing to part?

Any way to get him and Miller with a combination of Sheed, Rip or Tay, and other shit? Martin, Melo, Tay or Rip would be pretty potent offensively... I'm not sure how good of a player Martin really is.

Elton Brand might be a good fit for Melo, no? Doesn't need the ball, stay underneath defensively ( I think ) to rebound.

LA would ask for Chauncey and nothing less. Dunleavy won't want to work with Sheed again, and they don't need Tayshaun enough to give up their best player.

If we deal for Melo, Brand is a dead issue.

OT...AI makes 21 next year in his last year. They might be able to move him cuz of that.

What about Kevin Martin? Kings willing to part?


Why?

He's a younger version of Rip with better handles, better range and worse defense. He's basically Michael Redd in training.

He's a great fit in Sacramento, but would be a poor fit here.

LA would ask for Chauncey and nothing less. Dunleavy won't want to work with Sheed again, and they don't need Tayshaun enough to give up their best player.

If we deal for Melo, Brand is a dead issue.

Damn

OT...AI makes 21 next year in his last year. They might be able to move him cuz of that.

Yeah, for expiring contract scraps. They wouldn't be able to get something of real value for him, so they may as well pair him with Chauncey and see how far they can go.

Billups is as good a compliment for Iverson as you can get. They'd be older, but they might also be better.

Hmm... I don't know Kstat, I'm trying to think of a way to get rid of Sheed after the Melo deal and still be title contenders.

Hmm... I don't know Kstat, I'm trying to think of a way to get rid of Sheed after the Melo deal and still be title contenders.

Jermaine O'Neal is still out there.

If Kander thinks he can bring him back from the dead, he's still one of the elite 2-way centers in the NBA.

Valid point. Is Sheed's expiring enough to entice them? Is O'Neal even able to play a full season? We still wouldn't have a true C we are looking for, although O'Neal is more consistent and a better rebounder.

They can keep JO. Simply based on his health. Even when he plays, he's gimpy.

Let Sheed come off the books next year and have some cap space. Don't let him play though, make him a scout or something.

We hoped Kander would be able to bring Webber back, but alas... stone feet.

But then, there's McDyess... I don't know what to believe on that point.

So basically, my view is: if we can make one or two deals (one involving Sheed), I am proMelo.

They can keep JO. Simply based on his health. Even when he plays, he's gimpy.

Let Sheed come off the books next year and have some cap space. Don't let him play though, make him a scout or something.


We're not going to have any cap space even without Sheed' contract. We'll just be more under the luxury tax.

To make a Carmelo deal work, we're going to need a quality center. If anybody can think of a better one than Jermaine O'Neal that can be had, let me know, please.

We're not going to have any cap space even without Sheed' contract. We'll just be more under the luxury tax.

To make a Carmelo deal work, we're going to need a quality center. If anybody can think of a better one than Jermaine O'Neal that can be had, let me know, please.


Rasheed wallace?

Rasheed wallace?

Sheed isn't as gifted as a healthy Jermaine O'Neal, and he's also 4 years older.


Only one season ago, O'Neal was nearly a 20/10 guy for the season, and blocked 2 shots a game.

Only 4 years ago, he was 2nd in the entire league in MVP voting. He was the 2nd best big man in the NBA to Garnett, and beat him in head-to-head matchups.

If Oneal is recovered from 2008, I would take him in a heartbeat over Sheed.

I'm all for it, but at the same time, I trust Joe to do what he thinks is best. I don't want to get crazy here and lose the defensive edge this organziation has prided themselves on the last decade, we still need to be strong on D.

Plus, another positive on Melo is that he's a pretty good rebounder...something that Tayshaun & Rip aren't great in

I'm all for it, but at the same time, I trust Joe to do what he thinks is best. I don't want to get crazy here and lose the defensive edge this organziation has prided themselves on the last decade, we still need to be strong on D.

Plus, another positive on Melo is that he's a pretty good rebounder...something that Tayshaun & Rip aren't great in

IMO that left a long time ago.

Sheed isn't as gifted as a healthy Jermaine O'Neal, and he's also 4 years older.


Only one season ago, O'Neal was nearly a 20/10 guy for the season, and blocked 2 shots a game.

Only 4 years ago, he was 2nd in the entire league in MVP voting. He was the 2nd best big man in the NBA to Garnett, and beat him in head-to-head matchups.

If Oneal is recovered from 2008, I would take him in a heartbeat over Sheed.

Sorry, thought you said better, not fantasy. In that case I'll take wilt chamberlain with the head of a rottweiler. Of course you take a healthy JO. But i don't know where to find one.

It's hard to take a guy who hasn't played 70 games since he was 2nd team all nba with Peja and Sam I Am. He blocks shots like I mofo, and am not pretending not to see where you're going here, high risk/reward, but he's one more season away from being one of the worst contracts in the league.

IMO that left a long time ago.


lowest ppg against in the entire league...

speaks for itself, we've never been an offensive juggernaut, and with the turtle slow pace our backcourt likes to dictate, we never will be, even with carmelo

It's hard to take a guy who hasn't played 70 games since he was 2nd team all nba with Peja and Sam I Am. He blocks shots like I mofo, and am not pretending not to see where you're going here, high risk/reward, but he's one more season away from being one of the worst contracts in the league.

How is he any worse off than McDyess was before he came here?

He isn't coming off of a major debilitating injury, just a bunch of nagging ones.

Sheed isn't as gifted as a healthy Jermaine O'Neal, and he's also 4 years older.


Only one season ago, O'Neal was nearly a 20/10 guy for the season, and blocked 2 shots a game.

Only 4 years ago, he was 2nd in the entire league in MVP voting. He was the 2nd best big man in the NBA to Garnett, and beat him in head-to-head matchups.

If Oneal is recovered from 2008, I would take him in a heartbeat over Sheed.

I would definitely take a chance on him (we're at that point), but I worry about the fact that he shoots a Sheed-esque percentage from the field without the three-ball factor making up for it.

BTW, something I noticed. Sheed and all of his "pupils" (Randolph, JO, Darko) are all amongst the worst bigs in the league in FG%. Coincidence? Maybe.

lowest ppg against in the entire league...

speaks for itself, we've never been an offensive juggernaut, and with the turtle slow pace our backcourt likes to dictate, we never will be, even with carmelo


our %FG against was 3rd and our 3-point% against was 2nd, so it wasn't just the pace we played either.

Our defense this year was superb. 2nd only to the Celtics.

Per Mlive...


The agent for Carmelo Anthony says Detroit Pistons trade talk is premature

Posted by Dave Dial June 09, 2008 19:43PM
MyFox Colorado reporter Josina Anderson talked to Calvin Andrews, the agent for Carmelo Anthony.

June 9, MyFox Colorado: So exactly what is the chance of Denver Nuggets franchise star Carmelo Anthony taking his gig to Motown?
Perhaps about the same chance of Diana Ross taking out all of her fake hair live on camera.


Interesting characterization, but that's not exactly the impression one gets from the quotes provided.

"I would say nothing is happening. The Nuggets are not trading Carmelo," said Andrews. "People are interested in Carmelo. People are smelling blood. There are a lot of rumors out there and a lot of talk is happening, so people feel like they got to get there bid in there too."
"Our relationship is such that we would be informed by the Nuggets if there stance had changed. They would call me," added Andrews.

"You can't jump up and down every time people make inquiries. Our understanding is that no trade is happening."


So the contention is that because the Nuggets' GM hasn't contacted the agent for Anthony, there are no trade talks. It's not a sure thing that there are trade talks going on between the two teams, but what Mr. Andrews is telling the reporter is not what the headline or characterization says.

Stay tuned...

lowest ppg against in the entire league...

speaks for itself, we've never been an offensive juggernaut, and with the turtle slow pace our backcourt likes to dictate, we never will be, even with carmelo

We might have the lowest PPG, but I don't care. Our committment to D hasn't been there for 3 years.

We might have the lowest PPG, but I don't care. Our committment to D hasn't been there for 3 years.

They were more committed this year than 28 or the 29 other teams in the NBA.

Are you saying he'd be healthy like McDyess, but not see a falloff like McDyess? Why then did JO exercise that option? If he's the old JO and just one NBA GM believed it he could have extended that deal out quite a few years. To pretend that NBA players don't accumulate injuries that slow their play is a bit naive. I'm not paying a cat a max deal to not be a franchise player.

We might have the lowest PPG, but I don't care. Our committment to D hasn't been there for 3 years.

dude Tahoe, Idk how you could figure that man, I don't know what you think a great defensive team is supposed to look like...but no other team in the league held their opponents to less ppg than us...

so if we weren't committed this year, than nobody else was
either

They were more committed this year than 28 or the 29 other teams in the NBA.

Remnants of years passed. If we were truly commited to D, we would have won the title.

And their talent alone would make the top list, it wasn't because of committment. Add to that, we aren't a run and gun type of offense so possessions are down in our games.

Are you saying he'd be healthy like McDyess, but not see a falloff like McDyess?

JO isn't coming off of two major knee surgeries.


Why then did JO exercise that option?

...because nobody on earth would reject a 2-year, $40 million option, healthy or not?

I would definitely take a chance on him (we're at that point), but I worry about the fact that he shoots a Sheed-esque percentage from the field without the three-ball factor making up for it.



A lot of that came from him having to be a volume shooter for the offensively inept Pacers. Rick's offense never helped anyone's numbers.

we lost because Boston was a better team, as evident by KG & Pierce kicking ass in the finals right now...

dude Tahoe, Idk how you could figure that man, I don't know what you think a great defensive team is supposed to look like...but no other team in the league held their opponents to less ppg than us...

so if we weren't committed this year, than nobody else was
either

I'm glad and proud and all that, that we were the lowest, but I didn't see near the work ethic, etc that we had in 04.

JO isn't coming off of two major knee surgeries.

so you are naive? Cool.


...because nobody on earth would reject a 2-year, $40 million option, healthy or not?

Yeah, agents just include those so players can show their commitment to a city and make fans.

A lot of that came from him having to be a volume shooter for the offensively inept Pacers. Rick's offense never helped anyone's numbers.


true that, and jermaine has never played with a PG who can get inside and give him easy feeds...we have two PG's on our team who would be the best PG JO has ever played with...shit would be easier for him here, even Obies offense is more meant for strong guard production, as evident by guys like Diener, Rush, Andre Owens and Dunleavy having big games this year

we lost because Boston was a better team

:cogent:

melo for cb

tay sheed for brand and cmag? or their draft pick or something!

stuckey
rip
melo
max
brand

have dice come and play minutes at the 5 and 4 and have amir at the 4. cmag or the pick will get us a swingman to play the 2 and 3 and we can find a pg to back up stuckey.

The Clippers will not trade for Rasheed as long as Dunleavy is coach.

Nevermind that they wouldn't trade their best player for a guy they don't like, let alone the owner's favorite player in Maggette.

melo for cb

tay sheed for brand and cmag? or their draft pick or something!

stuckey
rip
melo
max
brand

have dice come and play minutes at the 5 and 4 and have amir at the 4. cmag or the pick will get us a swingman to play the 2 and 3 and we can find a pg to back up stuckey.
Why the hell would they give us Brand AND Magette?

No chance...

Shit, without trading them Billups, theres no chance we get Brand short of massively overpaying with Stuckey and 1-2 of our starters.

A couple of thoughts.

1. What's going to happen when Melo tries to guard other dominant SFs in the East? (LeBron, Pierce, etc.). Tay would have to go too, because as much as I like him in that "super sub" 6th man role, he's not going to settle for that.

2. I keep hearing that Denver is going to have trouble dealing AI because he's old, yet everyone will want Chauncey Billups. Billups is a whole 1 year younger than AI. Now AI's contract...

3. Joe won't touch Jermaine O'Neal, IMO, for reasons stated by Herms

A couple of thoughts.

1. What's going to happen when Melo tries to guard other dominant SFs in the East? (LeBron, Pierce, etc.)


The same thing that happens when Prince guards them?

I mean, yes, I know Melo isn't near the defender that Prince is, but it's not like Tayshaun can stop Lebron or Pierce (see Eastern Conference Finals 07 and 08).

We'll suffer when it comes to guarding the non-dominant SFs (guys like Hedo or whoever)

It's funny, I was opposed to Melo ever since the rumors started. I woke up today, and suddenly I want him on the team. I have no clue why. I think I'm intrigued at the possibilities of a post-up offense with Carmelo. This depends on what sort system Curry is going to implement.

The same thing that happens when Prince guards them?

I mean, yes, I know Melo isn't near the defender that Prince is, but it's not like Tayshaun can stop Lebron or Pierce (see Eastern Conference Finals 07 and 08).

Point taken, but Prince is a good perimeter defender with his length, so at least he makes those guys work for their offense. It gives us a chance to beat on them while we send them to the free throw line, lol.

I'm just thinking that the defense will definitely suffer in a Melo for Tay tradeoff, but maybe the increase in offense (including FTs) is worth it?

Who are the best defensive SFs in the NBA? If you ask GMs, I'd guess that Tay is going to be mentioned quite a bit. That's got to be a factor if our eastern rivals are mostly led by dominant SFs.

Tay is good at helping on guys like AI who get to the hoop but can't go strong, or spot shooters who fear his length. Both of which also happen to be Rip's strengths. Now, I'm not discounting being about to give other looks to opponents, but I'd rather have a brute who can help a bit on the glass.

And on Cbill/AI, it isn't age as much as use/abuse.

I usually try to have a "clean slate" mentality when teams I like acquire players that I don't like, so I'm trying to stay open minded about Melo, but it's difficult.

I think I'd want him if we only had to give up one starter, but giving up two starters for him makes me uneasy. That is, unless we're getting another potential starter from Denver along with Melo, of course.

Okay just read all of this for the first time:

Billups for Carmelo:
I would do the deal. I love Billups, but I've really had a problem with his attitude lately. If the team attitude is to change, I think that he needs to be traded. Carmelo will be much hungrier, and happier to play in Detroit. Then Detroit gets the superstar that we've been lacking for the last 5 years. More calls will go our way.

Sheed:
I understand the Sheed hate, I really do. But if he had a guy like Carmelo driving the lane with him, I think Sheed's value goes up. This is a contract year for him, and while it's probably his final contract year, he'll be out to prove he can still play hard. A part of me also wants to see how Sheed plays with Curry as his coach.

Gerald Wallace:
I love the way he plays. I could never hate a guy that plays "too" hard. But if Carmelo Anthony is going to be a Piston, you can't have Gerald Wallace. It's an either/or. We would then have Stucky, Tay, Rip, Melo, and Wallace, all of which who are G/F (except Stuck).

Jermaine O'Neal:
Fuck no. He's got talent, but he's got the brain of an ant. No basketball IQ.


All this said, I think Joe drafts Darko over Melo.

I'm willing to take the chance, but as Glenn said for one starter (and someone like Max and/or picks to balence things out depending on who is in there).

All this said, I think Joe drafts Darko over Melo.
Asshole.

I nearly laughed my drink all over my keyboard...

There's no way the nuggets trade carmelo to the pistons for only 1 starter, especially decaying garbage like Chauncey Billups. That pipe dream needs to die. It would take at least 2 starters and probably a third player before the nuggets even consider doing a deal involving carmelo anthony.

It's not going to happen.

I'm still hopeful billups heads out of detroit and still think denver is a potential partner for his services. To me a deal involving Iverson makes sense for detroit because 1. Iverson is a much better player than billups and 2. AI's contract expires at the conclusion of 09 while billups will be stinking up NBA courts with this current contract until at least 2011.

I don't like the AI plan. Cap space is overrated and that team isn't winning anything next year.

There's no way the nuggets trade carmelo to the pistons for only 1 starter, especially decaying garbage like Chauncey Billups. That pipe dream needs to die. It would take at least 2 starters and probably a third player before the nuggets even consider doing a deal involving carmelo anthony.

It's not going to happen.

I'm still hopeful billups heads out of detroit and still think denver is a potential partner for his services. To me a deal involving Iverson makes sense for detroit because 1. Iverson is a much better player than billups and 2. AI's contract expires at the conclusion of 09 while billups will be stinking up NBA courts with this current contract until at least 2011.

Well, I'm not interested in AI unless maybe we do the Sheed for Camby swap as well. The last thing I want paired with our unselfish players is a selfish player that doesn't get anybody involved in the offense. I think players like Tay, Sheed and Billups would simply float that much more with AI here (whichever ones remain).

What deal would you propose Yargs?

when are they allowed to start making these amazing moves?

Okay just read all of this for the first time:

Billups for Carmelo:
I would do the deal. I love Billups, but I've really had a problem with his attitude lately. If the team attitude is to change, I think that he needs to be traded. Carmelo will be much hungrier, and happier to play in Detroit. Then Detroit gets the superstar that we've been lacking for the last 5 years. More calls will go our way.
If I've learned anything is conformity will be your own grave. We arent getting any extra calls than what we normally get no matter whose on roster. We are never going to be NBA Golden Boys, I hope that we stop trying.

I have to address this because I personally think its what alot of people feel:

Carmelo will be much hungrier, and happier to play in Detroit. Then Detroit gets the superstar that we've been lacking for the last 5 years.
Superstar era was one of the most unfortunate eras in our history teal and all. Having a superstar in detroit gets you no free buffets in the NBA media market line. It gets you a distraction from ball movement unless your superstar is an amazingly unselfish facilitator(err carmelo the passer??). And I've realized that I personally dont want Melo in Detroit. Because he can't average what he normally does(his average would have to drop to get this team playing with everybody moving), he'll have to play severely harder on defense, and hustle like he gives a damn. Melo hungry? Dont know if i got that feeling watching him play this playoffs, but like stack he isnt scared to shoot i guess FWIW. I do kinda find it ironic that some people want him here in spite of his hothead childish temper and trouble respecting his coaches, but think sheed is a cancer we need to dump?

But do people think Sheed is a cancer?

I just don't like his inconsistency...

I usually try to have a "clean slate" mentality when teams I like acquire players that I don't like, so I'm trying to stay open minded about Melo, but it's difficult.
I save clean slates for guys i know have the capacity to come here and make the team better. Dont now if i get that feeling about Melo. Especially if it really costs us two starters (which it would no matter what because you can't have two SF's starting). Denver only has two players i like, Camby and nene. Carmelo, ivo, and every other guy is really not on my list of something i want to see here.

But do people think Sheed is a cancer?

I just don't like his inconsistency...
Alot of people point at his attitude and blowing up. Its been referred to often.

Alot of people point at his attitude and blowing up. Its been referred to often.
That doesn't make him a cancer though does it? Im thinking of locker room cancer anyway...

I loved his blowing up at last years ECF. All that flopping was pissing me off...

But do people think Sheed is a cancer?


Late for practice, late for playoff game shootarounds, hurting his team with technicals and suspensions, etc.

I think Joe has seen enough, and removing Sheed is the fastest way to start the culture change that Joe wants, IMO.

There is one huge issue that no one seems to be talking about with this:

If we do acquire Melo, what will happen to Darkobetterthanmelo? Do we change his username? Does he ride off into the sunset? Does he simply fade away and die?

I hope Joe considers this if he's going to make a move.

I loved his blowing up at last years ECF. All that flopping was pissing me off...
You're preaching to the choir as far as i go. I agree and i personally accept Sheed for all he is, mainly because i relate to most of it.


That doesn't make him a cancer though does it? Im thinking of locker room cancer anyway...
No but as Glenn said perception is reality, For me I saw that Sheed was frustrated with the coaching and alot of other things. I also felt that the coach wore thin on him. I also think that this lateness and what not doesnt happen if he's playing for a coach he believes in. I think thats a big factor for any and every player in this league. Thats my personal perception.

But most people will see the behavior as a reflection of sheed as a cancer, therefore he is in general circles and our value of him will not match up with teams we are trading with..

I think Joe has seen enough, and removing Sheed is the fastest way to start the culture change that Joe wants, IMO.
if we bring melo in at the same time the culture change will hit rock bottom. Also I thought he brought a damn good culture to the young players and that he had no effect on the vets who tend to respect him overall. He has never been lead by example or lead the vets ever. If you can point out where any of our negative culture is a result of sheed it would be nice.

There is one huge issue that no one seems to be talking about with this:

If we do acquire Melo, what will happen to Darkobetterthanmelo? Do we change his username? Does he ride off into the sunset? Does he simply fade away and die?

I hope Joe considers this if he's going to make a move.

BowiebetterthanMJ?

Would Melo listen to Curry when he tries to teach him the random arm waiving technique?

I agree with codeman completely on this. Sheed is not the problem and is most definitley not a cancer.

Sheed does not behave this way playing for a guy he respects. He's a guy that will go to war for his coach and teammates if he believes in the cause he's fighting for. With flip he was a non-believer which makes sense because flip is a babbling idiot.

The difference with sheed and other players in the NBA is that he wears his emotions on his sleeve and exposes them for all to see. As a result it's easy to tell when sheed feels that our coach is a drooling retard while the rest of the team just goes through the motions of playing the game when they obviously feel the same way based on the shitty effort they give (other than rip who almost always brings his a-game)

And I love sheed for being this way. We don't always have to agree with people in leadership positions and should feel the need to vocalize things when we disagree, especially when you're being led/coached by a disease infested baboon with no chance of accomplishing the goals you want to accomplish, which in this case was a championship.

The writing should have been on the wall at the conclusion of 2007 when sheed was acting the way he was acting and the entire team imploded. Same thing happend in 2008. Hell, the writing should have been on the wall at the end of 2006 when flip somehow felt that benching ben wallace was a good idea.

Why did it take dumars a year to make such an obvious move? God I hate having to be subjected to an extra year of flip saunders.

I need a new avatar.

Glenn is prolly cooking up some Curry emos, but not avatars

I agree with codeman completely on this. Sheed is not the problem and is most definitley not a cancer.

Sheed does not behave this way playing for a guy he respects. He's a guy that will go to war for his coach and teammates if he believes in the cause he's fighting for. With flip he was a non-believer which makes sense because flip is a babbling idiot.

The difference with sheed and other players in the NBA is that he wears his emotions on his sleeve and exposes them for all to see. As a result it's easy to tell when sheed feels that our coach is a drooling retard while the rest of the team just goes through the motions of playing the game when they obviously feel the same way based on the shitty effort they give (other than rip who almost always brings his a-game)

And I love sheed for being this way. We don't always have to agree with people in leadership positions and should feel the need to vocalize things when we disagree, especially when you're being led/coached by a disease infested baboon with no chance of accomplishing the goals you want to accomplish, which in this case was a championship.

The writing should have been on the wall at the conclusion of 2007 when sheed was acting the way he was acting and the entire team imploded. Same thing happend in 2008. Hell, the writing should have been on the wall at the end of 2006 when flip somehow felt that benching ben wallace was a good idea.

Why did it take dumars a year to make such an obvious move? God I hate having to be subjected to an extra year of flip saunders.

I need a new avatar.

While I typically agree with your posts, this isn't one of them.

Hanging on to Sheed as long as he gets to decide if he likes the coach or not is just too much of the tail wagging the dog.

If he couldn't put his differences with Flip aside long enough to help the team pull together and win a championship, he needs to get the fuck out of here.

If you don't respect Joe D enough to show up on time for playoff games, get the fuck out of here.

Sheed is all about Sheed. If he likes the coach, he's happy. If the refs don't piss him off, he won't get ejected. What's good for the team, be damned.

I see nothing but excuses for that behavior in your post, yargs, and that behavior is insulting to the fans (and management) of this franchise.

If you can't tell, I'm done with Sheed as a Piston. The whole team has adopted his "victim" mentality and it's costing us championships.

CTC.

I agree with Glenn here. It's about accountability from the players as well as the coach and the rest of the organization. It's all about the 'Ships.

My perception (and after all it's just perception for all of us fans and probably most of the press) is that Sheed wants to win, that winning is all that matters but he seems one of those overly emotional guys who cut off their nose to spite their face (like this poster for example).

He worked out more than ever last summer and came to camp in the best shape possible. He worked with all the young kids and helped them improve their game (remember those moments with the zoo crew and Sheed on the floor). He sacrifices and passes and plays D and wants to win.

But to win a championship you have to give it all and overcome everything. Your coach is a moron? You have to find a way to play around it or even work with the coach to find some middle ground. The refs suck ass? Fine, then you have to keep your emotions in check and put all that anger back into the game. Your situation in the playoffs sucks? You have to give it all the effort you can. You owe that to your teammates, your club and your fans.

Sheed's not capable of doing that. And his way of doing things can be and has been destructive for the team. I like Sheed and can very often talk myself into scenarios where he should stay. A lot of scenarios. But, no matter what, anything short of giving your 100% to win a champoinship is not acceptable. And if you don't it's no ones fault but your own.

If he couldn't put his differences with Flip aside long enough to help the team pull together and win a championship, he needs to get the fuck out of here.

If you don't respect Joe D enough to show up on time for playoff games, get the fuck out of here.



But, at the same time, you can't just get rid of him for pennies on the dollar.

Some of the blame could also be put on Joe for putting Rasheed in a situation where his play dictates how far we will go. It was never like that when Ben was here...to Rasheed's credit, he's never been, or claimed to be a "put the team on my back and I'll lead us to victory" kind of player, so to expect anything more than that is unfair as well...

The problems with sheed are not severe to the point where it's not worth having him back next year...

While I typically agree with your posts, this isn't one of them.

Hanging on to Sheed as long as he gets to decide if he likes the coach or not is just too much of the tail wagging the dog.

If he couldn't put his differences with Flip aside long enough to help the team pull together and win a championship, he needs to get the fuck out of here.

If you don't respect Joe D enough to show up on time for playoff games, get the fuck out of here.

Sheed is all about Sheed. If he likes the coach, he's happy. If the refs don't piss him off, he won't get ejected. What's good for the team, be damned.

I see nothing but excuses for that behavior in your post, yargs, and that behavior is insulting to the fans (and management) of this franchise.

If you can't tell, I'm done with Sheed as a Piston. The whole team has adopted his "victim" mentality and it's costing us championships.

CTC.
That victim mentality was always there, shame on you for thinking "us against the world" isnt a victim mentality. Theres no chivalry to it and its nothing humble about it. Saying Sheed is all about sheed is off, you're entitled to blast him for his fuck ups. But calling him out as out for himself is stretching it.

And acting like he's the only one whose looked at a Flip as a douche and not believed in him because he makes it more obvious than others is naive. Rip, Hunter, Tay, and possibly everybody outside of Billups didn't have Flip's back even after year one possibly(Billups was the only one defending him on some "gotta give him a chance" bs). And maybe in being his favorite he was the most guilty of not being the leader we needed when he was most trusted by our coach. Everything sheed felt was nothing more than what everyone was thinking.

With all that said i can't knock Joe for trading anybody. But I think Joe D understands that its fickle bs to call out sheed for being what he has always been... Looking at his playoff numbers, I thought he played well for a guy playing mostly Center. Which is why i think we need a Center so he can get back to PF more often than center.

But to win a championship you have to give it all and overcome everything. Your coach is a moron? You have to find a way to play around it or even work with the coach to find some middle ground.
How often has a team overcame a moron coach in the nba to win a title in the past 20 years?

CNNSI has a rumor of a counter offer:

Billups, Sheed and Tayshaun for Anthony, K-Mart and Chucky Atkins.

CNNSI has a rumor of a counter offer:

Billups, Sheed and Tayshaun for Anthony, K-Mart and Chucky Atkins.

Thankfully it's just a rumor...

If they threw in Camby and we threw in McDyess, I'd consider it.

Yeah, we'd be the Denver Nuggets with Rip! Championship for sure!

[/sarcasm]

I'm going to have nightmares....

CNNSI has a rumor of a counter offer:

Billups, Sheed and Tayshaun for Anthony, K-Mart and Chucky Atkins.

I think I'm going to barf. Say no to Kmart. That guy is no better than Max, is a cancer, and makes about 10 mil more. Why would we want a 15 mil a year contract for a player like Max that is a cancer? Take out Kmart and put in Camby and I'll think about it. he makes 6 mil less a year and isn't a headache.

If that happens I am renouncing the Pistons and rooting for the Nuggets.

I'M FUCKING TWITCHING

If Anthony and Camby were involved, I'd find a way to live with K-Mart.

We need a shot blocker and an elite small forward in the worst way, to compete with Boston and Cleveland.

Find me a better option than Camby and Anthony that can be had, and I'll be the first one to be in favor of that.

If Anthony and Camby were involved, I'd find a way to live with K-Mart.

Not me. I don't think Joe would saddle his team with that contract at all. Besides, who backs up the center spot? You've got Camby (never know when the next injury happens) and a bunch of PFs (Gaymart, Max, Amir).

Not me. I don't think Joe would saddle his team with that contract at all. Besides, who backs up the center spot? You've got Camby (never know when the next injury happens) and a bunch of PFs (Gaymart, Max, Amir).

Well, let's see.

We didn't have a center at all this year.

Now theoretically, we get one and you're worried about who plays BACKUP center?

I'd let K-Mart play backup center in a smaller lineup for 10 minutes a game and live with it.

No, I'm worried about not having a backup and having a starter that's had a lot of injuries in his career. If we had Camby/Dyess/Max/Amir I'd feel a lot better than Camby/Kmart/Max/Amir. Dyess has proven he can play good defense on centers. He also has a LOT better contract and character. He's also the type to step aside (or accept a trade) when Amir is ready. Gaymart would pitch a fit and we wouldn't be able to trade him. He also might run into the crowd and punch our own fans.

again, if you want to tell me a better way to get a small forward to compete with Boston and Cleveland, be my guest.

If that happens I am renouncing the Pistons and rooting for the Nuggets.
i'm not, but i am preparing myself for us to actually be lucky if we make it out of the ecf let alone to it. And even more preparing for us to not make the playoffs as an outside chance. sheed with camby is what we need, and we give it to dungver? ouch. :( ...just offers though, but a bad one to me personally.

let me also say from a culture stand point thats a full regression. Melo has a short fuse for fighting and throwing tantrums that get you ejected rather than tech'd up. K-Mart's attitude is gutter stupid. Both have thrown open tantrums over playing time. Again say what you want about our guys now, but thats not an improvement, nor is it a great trade off for us to compromise our locker room for that.

again, if you want to tell me a better way to get a small forward to compete with Boston and Cleveland, be my guest.

I'm sure there are much better options out there. I'd rather trade for Emeka and Wallace or Jrich than do the Nugget deal.

JUST SAY *NO* TO CARMELITA AS A PISTON!!!!!

I'm sure there are much better options out there. I'd rather trade for Emeka and Wallace or Jrich than do the Nugget deal.

Okafor and J-Rich can play small forward now?

Carmelo Anthony>>>>Gerald Wallace. I don't hate Gerald at all, but he's not in the same stratosphere.

Okafor and J-Rich can play small forward now?

Carmelo Anthony>>>>Gerald Wallace. I don't hate Gerald at all, but he's not in the same stratosphere.
Who said it has to be a small forward? Yes, we need a wing player capable of getting his own shot. No, it doesn't have to be a SF. Depends on who we move really.

I also think there have to be better options out there, probably in a 3 way deal. I can accept Melo's questionable aditude because he produces enough to warrent the money, but not Kmart's. I'll try and think of a 3 way deal to send him elsewhere.

This works salary wise. Even it with picks or something if you think it needs to be:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5664/houdentradegj2.png

The depth charts:

Detroit
PG Alston/Stuckey
SG RIP/Stuckey/Battier
SF Melo/Battier
PF Dyess/Scola
C Camby/Amir

Denver
PG Billups/Atkins
SG Iverson/Smith
SF Tay/Kleiza
PF Max/Nene
C Sheed/Nene

Houston
PG Jackson/Brooks
SG Head/MLE or #25
SF Tmac/Hayes
PF Kmart/Landry
C Yao/Dike

Okafor and J-Rich can play small forward now?

Carmelo Anthony>>>>Gerald Wallace. I don't hate Gerald at all, but he's not in the same stratosphere.
Actually if you count defense he is. His defense is better than melo's by a larger margin than melo's offense is better than his. And as i say this i didnt think much of wallace a couple years ago, he's come a long way.

Actually if you count defense he is. His defense is better than melo's by a larger margin than melo's offense is better than his. And as i say this i didnt think much of wallace a couple years ago, he's come a long way.


Gotta question his health though. He gets hurt, then returns and his game suffers for a week.

Um, Chris, what did the Rockets ever do to you?

Well, give them pick incentive or something. Or figure out your own damn 3 way (I'm sure that will derail this thread). Point is I'd much rather send Kmart to a team in need of a PF then take on his stupid ass.

Well, give them pick incentive or something. Or figure out your own damn 3 way (I'm sure that will derail this thread). Point is I'd much rather send Kmart to a team in need of a PF then take on his stupid ass.

That is a good three way. It's Detroit and Denver taking turns on Houston.

Well, take scola out of there and put in Hayes or somebody then. You guys are very constructive.

It's better than us getting ass raped by Denver so we can have AI and Gaymart.

It's better than us getting ass raped by Denver so we can have AI and Gaymart.

Yeah, I have no problem with Houston getting raped instead of us.

Have the Rockets toss in Carl Landry and the rights to Brad Newley for us too...

do it. we're all calling for a change and this looks like the most probable trade out there, and most impacting.