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Glenn
06-05-2008, 01:02 PM
:langlois:


Thursday, June 5, 2008

The loss to Boston, the firing of Flip Saunders and Joe Dumars’ declaration that he is open to trading any of his veterans fanned the flames of passion among Pistons Nation. I waded through hundreds of Mailbag responses and picked out a representative sampling of questions and included them here, but for even more comments and fan suggestions, click here for another edition of Mailbag Overflow.


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Miles (Grand Rapids, Mich.): There is no doubt change was needed. Do you think firing Flip was the right move or do you think it was a player issue?

Langlois: If I were sitting in Joe Dumars’ seat, it would have been especially troubling to lose the way they lost Game 6 – at home, with a 10-point lead early in the fourth quarter, and then just collapse at both ends of the court. I think what Dumars saw in that was the absence of the things he was confident he had assembled with this group – a team of poise and fire. Letting a 10-point lead evaporate at home under those circumstances had to be alarming. And I’m sure he has taken inventory of the players who were responsible for letting that lead go up in smoke. But I’m also pretty sure he concluded that a coach who carried more of a “presence,” for lack of a better word, would have helped the Pistons avoid such collapses. Put the 11-0 start to Game 3 in the same category, when the Pistons in two minutes essentially squandered the magnificent work they’d done in Game 2 to steal home-court advantage away from the Celtics. I don’t know how much of that you lay on the coach, but Dumars is around that team every day and knows what the players are thinking and has seen what draws out their best – and their worst. When he said it was “time for a new voice,” I took it as exactly that. He thinks a coach who can deliver his message more consistently and forcefully is what’s needed at this time.


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Gary (Troy, Mich.): From a season-ticket holder for 20-plus years, I think this was the right move.

Langlois: Based on the feedback I’ve been getting, Gary, you’re in the majority on this one, but a lot of fans see otherwise. (Click on the Mailbag Overflow for more comments on the firing and what moves fans feel Joe Dumars should make.) Most fans seem to be conveying the following message: Three years of good regular seasons followed by the same pattern of hard crashes in the playoffs – not necessarily falling short of expectations but not exceeding them and not showing the resourcefulness to fight through the inevitable tough situations the playoffs present – is long enough and a fair proving ground for any coach.


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Steve (Chicago): Big mistake firing Flip. The loss had nothing to do with coaching, just as you posted on your Web site. “Ahead by 10 points early in the fourth quarter of Game 6 – at home, no less – the Pistons suffered collapses at both ends of the floor and lost going away. In 18 offensive possessions after taking the 10-point lead, the Pistons shot 4 of 14, 2 of 12 if not for Jason Maxiell’s efforts, with five turnovers. And in the 13 defensive possessions after taking the 10-point lead, Boston scored 25 points on 8 of 9 shooting and 6 of 7 foul shooting.”

Langlois: Maybe Dumars saw it differently, Steve. Maybe he saw that meltdown and decided – no, nothing to do with tactics or strategy – that a more commanding coaching presence would have forged a team mentality that would have made that 10-point lead hold up no matter what.


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Kim (Raleigh, N.C.): I think the Pistons made a smart move by removing the coach. To me he seemed like he got confused when it came to the playoffs. I love Rasheed because he’s a Tar Heel, but if they could trade for another big man who could stand his ground and shoot outside and inside, do it.

Langlois: Joe Dumars decided a fresh approach, someone with maybe a little more fire to his personality, was needed for a team that suffered inexplicable lapses, whether the cause was lack of mental focus or something else. I get the sense from Dumars that he’s more likely to make a move this summer than last, but it won’t be with the intent of taking a step backward – he’s going to want to start next season feeling like he’ll have a team ready to compete for a title by the time the playoffs arrive.


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Kevin (Royal Oak, Mich.): After three years of being undermined by Rasheed Wallace, Flip probably wishes he had taken the University of Minnesota job. Flip came into a no-win situation with this group. I don’t think any coach would have gotten better results. That said, I understand the need to make chances. If Rasheed and Tayshaun Prince could be packaged for an All-Star-caliber three or four, I’d make that deal in a heartbeat.

Langlois: Wallace and Saunders’ existence wasn’t a very easy one, that’s for sure. At the heart of it, I’m not sure Wallace ever fully respected Saunders, for whatever reason, and Rasheed isn’t one who masks his feelings very well. I don’t think there’s any doubt his teammates picked up on Wallace’s dismissive body language toward their head coach and, further, I think that had a corrosive effect on the collective energy a team musters. Not saying it’s the reason the Pistons came up short of the NBA Finals all three years of the Saunders era, but it played a role. So I think “undermined” might be a little strong, because it implies intent, but the result wasn’t too far off.


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Lo (Detroit): Detroit has made itself into a defense-based team in the past three years. Don’t you think Avery Johnson would be a better fit than Michael Curry? Sure, Mike has been on Detroit’s bench as an assistant, but Avery is more of a put-up-or-shut-up coach, which is exactly what the Pistons need.

Langlois: We won’t begin to make assessments of Curry until he’s actually coached a few games, but everything about his demeanor and his resume suggests Curry will command respect without having to overreach his personality to get it – if, indeed, he succeeds Saunders. That’s a huge consideration. It really wasn’t in Flip Saunders’ nature to be confrontational. Curry can and will be – but, ironically enough, probably won’t have to be very often simply because his aura projects a man not to be messed with. There are differing opinions on Johnson. Sure, Dallas got much better defensively once he took over, but, then again, the Mavs were going to show defensive improvement under any new coach after Don Nelson, just as the next coach at Golden State will change the emphasis there.


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Dave (Marine City, Mich.): I’m shocked at Joe D’s decision on Flip. Dump Sheed first, then see what happens. Get a court leader. Flip isn’t the problem.

Langlois: The changes aren’t likely to stop at the coach’s chair, Dave, as Joe D clearly stated the other day. Stay tuned.


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Tom (Davao City, Philippines): Should the Pistons deal Rip and Rasheed to the Bobcats for Jason Richardson and Emeka Okafor? How about Rasheed for Elton Brand?

Langlois: That would be a little strange – Joe Dumars and Michael Jordan doing another trade involving Rip Hamilton. I think Dumars will explore every option this summer and that includes trading a piece or pieces of his core veteran starting unit. In fact, I think it’s far more likely that a Wallace or a Prince gets traded, for instance, than a Rodney Stuckey or Amir Johnson. Elton Brand controls his destiny for now – he can opt out of his contract if he so chooses. If he doesn’t, it’s possible the Clippers will be shopping him, given the uncertainty they’d face with him a year from now as an unrestricted free agent.


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Mike (Grand Blanc, Mich.): How come it seems like every year in the conference finals Chauncey shows up every other game? And the same goes for Sheed and Tay. We need a blockbuster trade involving two of the three guys I just mentioned. I strongly believe Maxiell can take the starting spot and Stuckey is a born scorer and will be the key to the Pistons’ success.

Langlois: Stay tuned, Mike. The best guess is that it’s going to be a more eventful summer than usual. That doesn’t mean you won’t recognize anyone on next year’s roster, but there might be a few recognizable faces missing when they regroup in October.


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Carlton (Kalamazoo, Mich.): At the time Kevin Garnett was being courted by other teams, why didn’t the Pistons go after him?

Langlois: The Pistons didn’t have what Minnesota most wanted, Carlton. The Timberwolves weren’t looking for equal value in return. They were looking for a good young player or two, for high draft choices and cap relief. Boston had Al Jefferson, who had established himself as a 20-and-10 threat; Boston had Minnesota’s own 2008 No. 1 pick to trade back, which the Timberwolves knew would be a high lottery pick; and Boston had a bunch of short-term contracts that would benefit the team’s salary-cap future. The Timberwolves would have had no interest in a trade that, for instance, sent them Rasheed Wallace as the centerpiece – they’d have essentially been back in the same boat with an old team not nearly good enough to compete and no assets to hasten their recovery.


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Nick (Grosse Pointe Shores, Mich.): How about Sheed and a second-rounder for Thaddeus Young and Samuel Dalembert. Dalembert and Maxiell give us way more potent offense and a defender who will stay on the block.

Langlois: Way more potent offense? Dalembert and Maxiell? That would be my great concern about that pairing – very inconsistent scoring punch. Also, Philly would be about as likely to include Young in a package as the Pistons would be to include Rodney Stuckey. The 76ers brought in Ed Stefanski as GM to get younger and more athletic. It was Stefanski who urged Mo Cheeks to start playing Young. He’s right there with Andre Igoudala as the centerpiece of their rebuilding.


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Sean (Detroit): What do you think about trading Sheed to Charlotte for Emeka Okafor and Jason Richardson? The salaries match and Okafor wants out of Charlotte.

Langlois: While it wouldn’t surprise me if Charlotte makes a play for Wallace – Larry Brown values him and Michael Jordan can be an impatient builder – it would take more than Wallace to get both of those players. And Okafor will be a restricted free agent – one who turned down a reported $13 million average annual multiyear extension offer before the season – so it would require a sign-and-trade at considerably bigger numbers. Not saying it won’t happen, but Okafor hasn’t performed at that level yet and he’s been injury prone.


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Gil (Charlotte, N.C.): I can only imagine the insane amount of mail you are getting right now. I’ve read separate articles saying that Wallace, Billups, Hamilton and Prince are each the most likely to be traded, obviously for different reasons. I’m eager to sit back now and watch the next four months.

Langlois: Mailbag has been stuffed like never before, Gil. It appears a postseason exit is to Pistons Mailbag what Christmas is to the U.S. Postal Service. Because those four guys you mention all have compelling attributes attractive to many, they should all attract a significant number of suitors. I don’t think Dumars is going to the table with a pecking order of preferences on which ones he’d like to deal – I think he’s going to the table looking for a deal that alters the mix significantly to his liking.


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Steve (Troy, Mich.): Do you think it is possible for Lindsey Hunter to retire and make him the coach?

Langlois: Head coach? No. I think it’s possible Hunter winds up as an assistant on Michael Curry’s staff if Curry is the guy to replace Saunders. But that would be too close and too awkward for Hunter to go from the guy goofing around after practice, shooting free throws with Billups and Hamilton and Wallace, to all of a sudden controlling their playing time and expected to keep them in line.


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Jordan (Troy, Mich.): I know Samb is supposed to be another year away, but is it possible if he shows well this summer that he could get some minutes? I think he could be at least as effective as Theo was.

Langlois: Get some minutes? Maybe. Be a part of the rotation? Not very likely. I still expect Samb to be the No. 6 big man next year and to spend a chunk of his season in Fort Wayne of the D-League. Remember, he’s already a year ahead of schedule. Only when he showed the Pistons real progress last summer did they decide to offer him a contract a year ahead of when they thought they’d take him out of Spain. I think the timetable for Samb to push for a rotation spot is the 2009-10 season.


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Brian (Memphis, Tenn.): If Wallace goes, do you think Detroit makes it back to the conference finals?

Langlois: Impossible to say. Whom do they get back? How much help do they get in other trades, free agency and the draft? Who else improves over the summer? What deals are made at next February’s trade deadline?


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Sterling (Detroit): Why isn’t Isiah Thomas being considered for the head coaching job? He’s the greatest Piston ever and the players respect him. The community would be behind him. We need someone to show these guys what it takes night in and night out.

Langlois: He’s coming off a disastrous time in New York. Maybe some of that was a product of that organization’s dysfunction, but the evidence suggests pretty strongly that Isiah helped create it. He will always have a special place in Pistons history, Sterling, but being a great player doesn’t have any pattern of translating into being a great executive or coach.


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Kalen (Detroit): Now that it’s official Flip Saunders is gone and Joe has said there will be significant change, what type of players will he seek? Could he possibly go for opting-out free agents like Gilbert Arenas or Elton Brand or make a deal for Dwyane Wade?

Langlois: If those guys opt out, the Pistons won’t have any realistic shot at getting them – as free agents, they’ll command salaries only a few teams could offer under salary-cap rules. Dumars recently told me he looks for three things in a player – talent, solid character and an emphasis on winning above anything else.


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Renae (Atlanta, Ga.): I know this is a stretch, but I’ll throw it out there anyway: What about trading Rasheed Wallace for Kevin Garnett? Kevin and Chauncey are good friends and would play well together. Am I dreaming?

Langlois: What would Boston’s motivation for making that trade be? The Celtics are in the NBA Finals for the first time in 21 years largely on the basis of their swindling of Minnesota last summer to get Garnett. And now Danny Ainge would trade him? Unless he’s looking to be dumped in Boston Harbor, it makes no sense.


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Milan (Clarkston, Mich.): What do you hear about Elton Brand and do you think he would fit into what Joe is talking about?

Langlois: At the right price, Brand would be desirable. But I’d have some fears of giving him the type of contract he’ll probably get. He’s got a big, thick body that would make me wonder about his career longevity and he’s coming off an Achilles tendon injury. He’s awfully tempting – a 20 and 10 guy and a very solid citizen, but if you’re talking about an $80 million contract, I’d wonder if the resources might be better allocated. That said, whoever gets him – and I still believe he winds up back with the Clippers – at least knows what they’re getting.


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Tim (Gautier, Miss.): Even before Flip was fired, I wondered if Joe D would considered a trade of Rasheed and Theo Ratliff for Amare Stoudemire and then Chauncey Billups for Baron Davis?

Langlois: There were rumblings before Phoenix traded Shawn Marion for Shaquille O’Neal that the Suns were preparing to come to Dumars with a Stoudemire-for-Wallace deal. I was skeptical at the time, but when I saw them do the risky O’Neal deal, I believe they would have made that trade. Steve Kerr was convinced the Suns were too weak defensively in the middle. I wonder if he would have rather had Wallace than O’Neal. I don’t think the Pistons would do the Billups-Davis deal. Davis is a breathtaking talent, but a little too much of a character red-flag according to many.


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Cori (Southfield): The Pistons should target Kevin Martin from Sacramento. He’s a slasher who reminds me of Eddie Jones, only better. He’s pretty much equal to Rip but shoots the 3-ball consistently and creates his own shot.

Langlois: Martin has patterned himself after Hamilton. They play the same position, so I’m guessing you’re proposing a swap of those two. I’m not sure either side would want to do that deal, though. Dumars admires Hamilton’s competitive fire. Sacramento has already traded Mike Bibby and probably will see Ron Artest walk away. Martin is pretty much their identity these days.


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Nick (Clinton Twp., Mich.): While I was listening to Joe D talk about what kind of player he was looking for, I thought of Tracy McGrady and Michael Redd. Could you see Joe D going for one of those guys?

Langlois: I guess either one would raise my eyebrows. Redd has never really delivered on the huge contract Milwaukee gave him. Good guy by all accounts and phenomenal shooter, but that’s about where his assets start and stop. McGrady makes huge money and is frequently injured. I think both of those guys break your heart in the end.


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Sebastian (Sweetwater, Texas): What would it take to get Josh Smith from Atlanta? What about a sign-and-trade deal with Rasheed and Billups for him and Bibby?

Langlois: Smith is a restricted free agent. You never know what Atlanta’s thinking – they just hired a new GM in Rick Sund and their ownership situation is muddled – but I’d be stunned if the Hawks let Smith get away. Josh Childress is the likeliest Hawk to be on the move.


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Brandon (Walled Lake, Mich.): Do you think the Pistons should try to obtain Allen Iverson for Billups and Tayshaun and maybe look at Rasheed Wallace to Charlotte for Gerald Wallace?

Langlois: If I had veto authority, I would exercise it on the Iverson deal. As hard as he plays and as much fun as he is to watch, I think Iverson wears people out around him and grinds on a team after a short while. I’d have to see more of Gerald Wallace – like watch two weeks’ worth of game tape on him – but off of limited glimpses we see over the course of a season, I’m a fan.


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Nolan (Livonia, Mich.): It is clear at least one of the four core starters won’t be back. I’m pretty sure two guys Joe Dumars has his eyes on are Carmelo Anthony and Elton Brand. What would it take to get Anthony?

Langlois: I think Denver, despite the character red flags with Anthony – getting a DUI right before the playoffs start was a little alarming – is committed to keeping him. I could be wrong, but I think if the Nuggets do anything dramatic it is more likely to involve Iverson. I’m not sure Dumars would be first in line if Anthony came available, anyway.


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Erges (Tirana, Albania): Has the coaching staff ever thought of making Jason Maxiell a small forward? He will always be fighting for minutes against bigger players and I don’t think he’ll be explosive or strong enough to play in the frontcourt when he’s 30.

Langlois: Maxiell would have a hard time coping with the quickness of most small forwards, Erges. The hope is that he’ll become crafty enough to make up for his lack of pure height. He’s got the wing span and explosiveness to give him a fighting chance even against players 4 or 5 inches taller in the paint. He’s going to have to learn to make his living down there.


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Marcus (St. Joseph, Mo.): Lots of people think we need to trade Wallace and I’m leaning that way. The Clippers make a lot of dumb moves – think we could get Kaman and how do you think he fits?

Langlois: The Clippers have to decide which way they’re going. A lot of that will depend on what Elton Brand decides – will he opt out of his contract and become a free agent or play it out. The Clippers aren’t going to be giving away a young big man who has the potential to lead the league in rebounding, but they might be intrigued at the thought of Wallace’s ability to draw attention in a crowded Los Angeles sports market.


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Ben (Grosse Pointe, Mich.): As much as it pains me to say it, is there any possibility of trading Tayshaun Prince and Arron Afflalo to New Jersey for Richard Jefferson and Marcus Williams?

Langlois: There’d be a better chance if Jefferson wasn’t scheduled to make about $11 million more than Prince over the three remaining years on both of their contracts. Also, I’d be stunned if the Pistons thought Afflalo for Williams was a fair trade.


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Danny (Sterling Heights, Mich.): I want the Pistons to get Joe Alexander in the draft but he might be a top 15 pick. He would have been a great fit with the Pistons.

Langlois: You’re right, but no way he gets to 29 and I don’t know how much ammunition the Pistons would have to trade up into the top 10, which is probably what it’s going to take to get Alexander.

Glenn
06-05-2008, 01:04 PM
Overflow: http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox/mailbag_080605.html

Wilfredo Ledezma
06-05-2008, 04:48 PM
Jesus Christ...


Renae (Atlanta, Ga.): I know this is a stretch, but I’ll throw it out there anyway: What about trading Rasheed Wallace for Kevin Garnett? Kevin and Chauncey are good friends and would play well together. Am I dreaming?


that's brutal man

Black Dynamite
06-05-2008, 05:59 PM
Langlois: Maybe Dumars saw it differently, Steve. Maybe he saw that meltdown and decided – no, nothing to do with tactics or strategy – that a more commanding coaching presence would have forged a team mentality that would have made that 10-point lead hold up no matter what.
This is what i believe. Its no accident that Flip has never seen the big dance with any team. But he's always protected by excuses in the personnel/player department. I believe the coach is the leader and sets the tone for your team's attitude. Believed that way back to the Daly years. Stars are complicated, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Greg Poppovich and Larry Brown all understand that they need to be triggered and that they need to be in command even on a team of vets. They all know how to temper their enthusiasm and fire them up when the mood isnt there. All these coaches teams have come out flat in one playoff game or another, and they all have gotten them to respond in one way or another on many occasions.

Could we have won regardless? yea, but at that point you have to be luckier than you needed to be when you had someone tougher in command. Hope that Boston gets nervous, hope that they slip harder than you. When we beat Miami, they werent slipping, they were coming after us in miami with all they had. Boston did the same, but this time we flinched? Change of culture from the culture of the HC taking over the culture we had before he got here imo.

gusman
06-05-2008, 07:59 PM
biggest joke of my day so far and I seriously doubt that I will encounter a bigger joke.

KG for rasheed................??????

That's like me trading a smoking hot girl for amy winehouse

snap

gusman
06-05-2008, 08:00 PM
and is that kim kardashian codename V?????

Uncle Mxy
06-05-2008, 08:04 PM
The defining day for Flip Saunders was two years ago, when he didn't punish Big Baby Ben for quitting in Orlando. We don't know to what extent that was truly Flip's fault. Part of me thinks that JD should've punished Ben even if Flip was against it. But, that would've undercut Flip as surely as anything. That may not have been the dynamic.

Black Dynamite
06-05-2008, 09:04 PM
and is that kim kardashian codename V?????
Yea, honestly dont care for her much, but she does have a nice ass.

Vinny
06-08-2008, 01:08 PM
biggest joke of my day so far and I seriously doubt that I will encounter a bigger joke.

KG for rasheed................??????

That's like me trading a smoking hot girl for amy winehouse

snap


Sterling (Detroit): Why isn’t Isiah Thomas being considered for the head coaching job? He’s the greatest Piston ever and the players respect him. The community would be behind him. We need someone to show these guys what it takes night in and night out.

Langlois: He’s coming off a disastrous time in New York. Maybe some of that was a product of that organization’s dysfunction, but the evidence suggests pretty strongly that Isiah helped create it. He will always have a special place in Pistons history, Sterling, but being a great player doesn’t have any pattern of translating into being a great executive or coach.

geerussell
06-08-2008, 02:09 PM
Yea, honestly dont care for her much, but she does have a nice ass.

She also has a sex tape where it gets pounded. +1 for KK.

Black Dynamite
06-08-2008, 02:51 PM
heard the tape was kinda unimaginative and boring. but havent seen it actually,

Zekyl
06-11-2008, 01:23 PM
Links?