T.Prince -20
A.McDyess -19
R.Wallace 12
R.Hamilton 4
C.Billups -37
R.Stuckey 26
J.Maxiell 2
T.Ratliff -2
L.Hunter 16

Billups is killing the pistons right now. He is -37 while his backups are a combined +42. The team struggles some when Prince and/or mcdyess are in, but they are going up against great players. billups can't even outplay the 3-headed monster of rondo/house/cassell (only one of which belongs in the playoffs at all). The less he plays the better the pistons chances. Also, ratliff is like ben wallace without the defense, rebounding, or basic intelligence. flip should be fired just for playing him. At least amir would give the pistons something somewhere. There is absolutely no reason for ratliff to be in the game. Of course, all of this obvious from watching the game, but some stat are always useful to back it up.

I dont think the Ratliff thing truly showed until last night. In fact i'm guessing before last night he was in the positive. Also Billups played his ass off last night. Dont know what his +/- this game was but i dont care either because we wasnt sniffing a win w/o him last night. Boston just figured out they dont have to cover that brainless twit Theo. So yea I guess his +/- can only get worse.


Amir? i'm cool with that, but i'm also cool with activating Hermann. He'd get a ton of open looks on the weak side for 3. Either way, Billups +/- may be a moment where I think a stat is saying something that isn't actually true. At least I dont personally feel like he's killing us.

Our bench players will have inflated +/- numbers because they are playing against Boston's bench a great deal, which is like playing against nobody.

Our bench players will have inflated +/- numbers because they are playing against Boston's bench a great deal, which is like playing against nobody.

Incorrect.

Xanadu is 100% right on this.

If you guys were watching this series with me you'd be threatening to kill me because of how much I've been harping on this all series long. The guys that are watching it with me have been totally converted. Billups is a fucking sloth out there and as soon as he's on the floor WHOEVER he guards penetrates all day long against him. This last game Perkins was all over the glass because Sheed was CONSTANTLY having to come and help on the guard who Chauncey let into the post or the forward who slashed and got a pass from that guard.

Billups should be playing only in the closing minutes in the fourth and then only if they absolutely have to have that 3. They can't hide him against anyone.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, and I don't think what you are saying makes the quote that you pulled from me incorrect. Mutually exclusive, IMO.

I do think the quote is untrue... Boston's bench really doesn't get a big amount of minutes, not as much as ours, it seems. A little bit of Posey, Brown, and Cassell/House... but not that much.

Yeah, cause you’re a retard, you don’t know shit about fuckin’ basketball. You’re filling in for somebody.
LOUD NOISES

You know I've had a hard time figuring out this year how much stock to put into the +/- system. Obviously in the NHL it means much more, but for instance, in Gm 4, Jason Maxiell went 6-6 on his FG's, scored 14 pts, and was a -1 in a game we won by 19.

So his +/- suggests he was a liability when he was in the game, yet his final stat line suggests otherwise...

I think it's a stat that is useful to an extent, but maybe one that shouldn't be read too far into.

Man, if John Hollinger saw this thread, I can't imagine the bullshit he would write, after all he's fascinated with margins.

agreed. ^

i also think it can be a useful stat at times but i don't think it tells the full story and i don't think too much should be taken from looking at it alone.

If you guys were watching this series with me you'd be threatening to kill me because of how much I've been harping on this all series long. The guys that are watching it with me have been totally converted. Billups is a fucking sloth out there and as soon as he's on the floor WHOEVER he guards penetrates all day long against him. This last game Perkins was all over the glass because Sheed was CONSTANTLY having to come and help on the guard who Chauncey let into the post or the forward who slashed and got a pass from that guard.
I couldnt stand watching game 5 - Billups was playing like absolute crap and lazy as all hell.

I said this in another thread, billups' laziness just spread to the other players during the 3rd, and surprise surprise when Stuckey came back towards the end of the 3rd, we started to gain our lead back.

Its not necessarily that Stuckey is the be all end all to our problems, its just Billups is playing like a lazy piece of shit who shouldnt be playing anymore.

I think that +/- is fairly worthless for players that only get 5-15 min a game because there are so many spurts. Also, it isn't very useful for single games. I think 5 games is a decent sample size. Also, I thought that pistons were playing like crap most of the time billups has been in the game before I checked the +/-. Then, I checked the stats and that was confirmed. Without game 4, chauncey would be -52. At the end of the game, the team went on a huge run with chauncey in and maxiell out, which skewed the numbers for that game. I missed the first half of that game due to travel, but it seemed to me to be the only game where billups played well for an entire half. Also, ratliff's numbers are skewed because he didn't play at all in game 3 which had the celtics largest margin of victory.

What are the collective +/- #s for 6 games?