In summary, you dismiss his lengthy and detailed basis for his endorsement. You disregard the man's own words, his bi-partisan history, his vast resume as both soldier and statesman... and trivialize his endorsement on the basis of race.

Yes, that's a racist thing to do.
Agreed. And it doesn't matter that Juan Williams said it. Blacks can still make racist generalizations about blacks. Anyway though, good job on seeking out Juan Williams to justify your position. He's on Fox News, isn't he?

EDIT: I do try not to base my opinion on people too much on their political leanings, but considering Gen. Powell's endorsement exclusively in the light of race is pretty much a litmus test in my book.

The Republicans are all a "Bunch of Punks"
Also, [smilie=juan.bmp] > http://www.foxnews.com/images/2322/7_61_williams_juan_320.jpg

Name one time Powell has endorsed an inexperienced, WHITE Democrat in his lifetime. You can't. And no, Michael Bloomberg ran for mayor of NYC as a Republican.



First why do repubs always have to play the victim game. just own up to the stupid shit that you say. you'll have to name a time when Colin Powell endorsed another candidate simply because that candidate was black. I find it amazing that Colin Powell was used as an emblem of diversity in the Republican party. However, he is easily discarded as just another black guy for the sake of political narrative. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that Powell's endorsement was racially motivated, not on Powell to prove it was not. The man gave a very eloquent reasoning on national TV.

Second, I'd like to see an actual quote from Juan Williams, before I'd actually believe that he agreed with you. The guy says some nutty things and is definitely not a liberal, but I would be shocked if he said that Powell endoresed Obama because he is black. It sounds to me like you are just making shit up again.

Third, what does bloomberg have to do with anything. The guy was first a dem, then a repub, and now is an independent. No one argued that a bloomberg endorsement means anything!

First why do repubs always have to play the victim game. just own up to the stupid shit that you say. you'll have to name a time when Colin Powell endorsed another candidate simply because that candidate was black. I find it amazing that Colin Powell was used as an emblem of diversity in the Republican party. However, he is easily discarded as just another black guy for the sake of political narrative. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that Powell's endorsement was racially motivated, not on Powell to prove it was not. The man gave a very eloquent reasoning on national TV.

Second, I'd like to see an actual quote from Juan Williams, before I'd actually believe that he agreed with you. The guy says some nutty things and is definitely not a liberal, but I would be shocked if he said that Powell endoresed Obama because he is black. It sounds to me like you are just making shit up again.

Third, what does bloomberg have to do with anything. The guy was first a dem, then a repub, and now is an independent. No one argued that a bloomberg endorsement means anything!

It really doesn't matter, racially speaking, IMO. Powell adds experience and credibility to Obama's foreign affairs if he is to become either an advisor or a member of the cabinet.

It's amused me from the get-go about the Rebubs bashing Obama over his apparent "lack" of foreign relations experience. Ronald Reagan was President of fucking SAG and Governor of California before taking the White House, neither added any foreign experience to his portfolio. Of course, some of us remember him as a great foreign President, the man who hastened the end of the Berlin Wall. What Reagan lacked in "experience" he made up for in surounding himself with great role players. With Biden, Obama is off to a good start. If he could convince Powell to join, that just adds one more quality player to the line-up.

The only reason Colin Powell is endorsing Barack Obama is because he's black.

Colin Powell wouldn't have endorsed Hillary Clinton (who is far less liberal than Barack) had she won the nomination. Colin Powell wouldn't have endorsed John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich, or Evan Bayh, had they won the nomination.

No. The main reason Colin Powell is backing Barack Hussein Obama, is because he is black.

A black endorsing a black candidate...? Shocking.

Obama has his 'Joe Lieberman' now.
So Joe Lieberman endorsed McCain because McCain is white?

So Joe Lieberman endorsed McCain because McCain is white?

Sure, Mxy.

Just to be selfish, I hope McCain wins the election due to white democrats not voting for Obama because he's black.

If it happens, I'll be watching Olberdork for a month just to see him have peptic ulcer each night.

Just to be selfish, I hope McCain wins the election due to white democrats not voting for Obama because he's black.

If it happens, I'll be watching Olberdork for a month just to see him have peptic ulcer each night.

Way to cheer on racism.

Way to cheer on racism.

It seems that overt racism is once again becoming acceptable to a large portion of the country. repubs stopped being the party of lincoln in 1968.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200881020067

Let us run down politically motivated domestic terrorism by those pro-america americans over the last 15 yrs.

shot up a church in TN and killed people
assassinated dem leader in AK
domestic anthrax attacks
OK City bombings
3 guys with rifles planning to assassinate Obama
Actress who played ann coulter in W beaten and in critical condition
death threats to ACORN and other obama supporters
various abortion doctor killers

However, liberals are the real threat to America and a group organized to oppose the death penalty is placed on a terrorism watch list. It is especially ironic to me that an anti-death group can be considered terrorists, especially one that doesn't murder doctors.

Sure, Mxy.
If you could, please tell me what your "Obama has his 'Joe Lieberman' now." remark is supposed to mean. Are you trying to say that Colin Powell is Jewish? I don't get the equivalence.

Obama's taking a couple days off from the campaign trail because of his sick grandmother in Hawaii. I'm sure the cynical are weighing the sympathy vote Obama could derive if his grandmother dies between now and election day.

McCain tried to solicit campaign donations from Russia:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_camp_hits_up_Russian_ambassador.html?showal l

Obama and Powell are a generation apart. Powell served in Vietnam, Obama was 7 years old at the time. They're not even black in the same ways - Colin Powell is of Caribbean descent, Obama is famously biracial with a Kenyan father. Colin Powell grew up in the Bronx, Obama grew up in Hawaii. Powell spent his entire life in the military, Obama went to Harvard Law. Powell is a Republican, Obama is a Democrat. Powell is Episcopalian, Obama is UCC.

If you look at Colin Powell and Barack Obama and the only thing that comes to mind is "black guys stick together," then I don't know what to tell you. I guess you need to clean out your fucking ears.

Obama's taking a couple days off from the campaign trail because of his sick grandmother in Hawaii. I'm sure the cynical are weighing the sympathy vote Obama could derive if his grandmother dies between now and election day.



I remember when that pea-brain cokie roberts said that obama should vacation in Hilton Head, SC instead of Hawaii (presumably 'real Americans' vacation in Hilton Head, though i am sure that cokie has been to hawaii plenty of times herself). I wonder if nit-wit empty-suit news people like herself have any capacity for self-reflection or if she'll just go on being the douche bag she is. If I have to listen to one more rich, isolated news prick talk about how joe sixpack will interpret things I might have to stop watching tv altogether.

If you could, please tell me what your "Obama has his 'Joe Lieberman' now." remark is supposed to mean. Are you trying to say that Colin Powell is Jewish? I don't get the equivalence.


Speaking of Lieberman, I read an article on how ridiculous it would be for any other politician to narrow down the vp selection to palin vs. lieberman. They are complete polar opposites. A pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-gun control, pro-gay rights, yale grad from the Northeast vs. a pro-life, anti-science, anti-gun control, anti gay rights U. of Idaho grad from Alaska. Lieberman abandoned the party whose domestic policy matches with his for a party that opposes most all of his domestic agenda, but shares his vision of the Middle East. In contrast, there is no evidence palin ever had more than a passing interest in foreign policy prior to becoming vp. lieberman was a lifelong friend. palin was a woman he met for 30 minutes at a conference. How do you end up with two polar opposites and decide that everyone in between is unacceptable?

edit: reagan never had direct foreign policy experience, but he was certainly able to communicate a coherent set of ideas in a way palin could only dream of. also reagan's desire to engage in arms control with the USSR was strongly opposed to conservative establishment. palin only breaks with the establishment when she doesn't understand the question or the conservative establishment position.

The only reason Colin Powell is endorsing Barack Obama is because he's black.

Colin Powell wouldn't have endorsed Hillary Clinton (who is far less liberal than Barack) had she won the nomination. Colin Powell wouldn't have endorsed John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich, or Evan Bayh, had they won the nomination.

No. The main reason Colin Powell is backing Barack Hussein Obama, is because he is black.

No, I will not vote for B. Hussein Obama.
You really love that middle name don't you? Hussein. Scary. Muslim-sounding. I bet the part of Powell's endorsement where he was speaking to you about that flew right past you.

Still, it's worth repeating. Think about it the next time you're saying Country First out of one side of your mouth and playing the muslim scare card from the other.


"Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no. That's not America. Is there something wrong with a seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing he or she could be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion that he is a Muslim and might have an association with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

I feel particularly strong about this because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay, was of a mother at Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone, and it gave his awards - Purple Heart, Bronze Star - showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death, he was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the head stone, it didn't have a Christian cross. It didn't have a Star of David. It has a crescent and star of the Islamic faith.

And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was fourteen years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he could serve his country and he gave his life."
http://www.stereohyped.com/wp/docs/2008/10/khan.jpg

Didn't Mickey get banned for being overtly racist just to get under people's skin?

I hear rumors that he's a fan of R. Abdul Wallace and A. Jalla Johnson.

Can't you guys make the connection?! Saddam Hussein... Barack Hussein Obama... Barack Obama... Iraq Osama... TERRORIST!

So, you're saying it's one small step from R. Abdul Wallace to George Wallace, one small step from A. Jalla Johnson to Robert "sold his soul to the devil" Johnson? Gotcha. Makes perfect sense to me.

I hear rumors that he's a fan of R. Abdul Wallace and A. Jalla Johnson.
Well they arent terrorists because they dont want to be president, they are just playing basketball which is safely filling the proper stereotype. Obama is a fraud, a basketball player posing as a presidential candidate, therefore a terrorist fraud.

Obama is a fraud, a basketball player posing as a presidential candidate, therefore a terrorist fraud.

:cogent:

Muslims: Good Enough for Basketball, Not Good Enough for Public Service

I'm on the phone with my brother and he says all y'all libs are geniuses, I disagree.

I is dumb.

Of course, having just filled out an absentee ballot that had Republicans and a Libertarian along with Democrats, I'm arguably not a liberal.

If there was a Republican candidate named Wilfredo Ledezma, how many of dem gunslingin' good ol' boys would be calling him a dirty Venezuelan secretly in bed with Hugo Chavez, and plotting to destroy the infastructure of America?

It's only a name.

Of course, the name "Denny McLain" stands for wholesome American values and victory. Denny McLain will restore faith in mankind.

If there was a Republican candidate named Wilfredo Ledezma, how many of dem gunslingin' good ol' boys would be calling him a dirty Venezuelan secretly in bed with Hugo Chavez, and plotting to destroy the infrastructure of America?

It's only a name.

Of course, the name "Denny McLain" stands for wholesome American values and victory. Denny McLain will restore faith in mankind.
Good point, Wilfredo is a terrorist fraud trying to piggy back onto the conservative ticket in exchange for a green card. The connection is undeniable.

I is dumb.

Of course, having just filled out an absentee ballot that had Republicans and a Libertarian along with Democrats, I'm arguably not a liberal.

The repub in my house district is running pro-drug legalization ads on the hip hop and r&b channels. If he wins, I may have a strategy in hand for moving to detroit to start a campaign against kwame's mom.

Muslims: Good Enough for Basketball, Not Good Enough for Public Service
Also, it was a disaster to give voting rights to minority and risky folks.

If there was a Republican candidate named Wilfredo Ledezma, how many of dem gunslingin' good ol' boys would be calling him a dirty Venezuelan secretly in bed with Hugo Chavez, and plotting to destroy the infastructure of America?

It's only a name.

Of course, the name "Denny McLain" stands for wholesome American values and victory. Denny McLain will restore faith in mankind.
The sad thing is that you're absolutely right. Irish names in particular are seen as among the most electable names 'round these parts. It's likely given McCain a couple point boost over where, say, a "John Mackenberg" would be.

McCain really needs to win Pennsyltucky bad:
NLVSURlFoQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLVSURlFoQs

Wow.

Yeah, that ... Tiawanese (?) chick behind him is hot.

She's not white. Why isn't she voting for Obama? They must have paid her...

He had another mishap in Pennsylvania as well:
AqV3AXjqP0w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqV3AXjqP0w

THAT HUGE NEWS!

I have a problem with your name, Mr Obama.
-4wQfQtpDAc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4wQfQtpDAc
I don't have a problem with being so fat, tho.

^She's pro-America

Apparently she feels its worse to be a Muslim than an Atheist. That seems odd to me.

She says: "He knows what the right decision is"

Yeah, to leave that dumb ass bitch.

Sometimes your favorite words just slip out...

qX1ImnGQYcE

Good point, Wilfredo is a terrorist fraud trying to piggy back onto the conservative ticket in exchange for a green card. The connection is undeniable.


And the plot thickens...

Just be sure to buy Citgo when you fill up.

poll #'s running even?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27324419/?GT1=43001

I still think BO wins but I saw where it was definately tightening in a couple important states.

I'm ready for BO to be Prez. I just hope he's more like Clinton than Carter. I'll respect him as my Prez.

That poll may or may not be accurate, but as an Obama supporter concerned about overconfidence (by the potential voters, not Barack), I like it.

She says: "He knows what the right decision is"

Yeah, to leave that dumb ass fugly bitch.
Fixed.

Someone should tell her that her husband is Jewish. His name comes from Hebrew, after all.

The likely voter model on that AP poll is pretty suspect, among other things. I suspect there are any number of interests who want to see this look closer than it is. At this point, the state races are more important, and Obama appears to have many key ones well in hand.

To be fair to McCain, though, I suppose his recent endorsement by a highly influential bunch of people in American politics helps his cause:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93VA3B80&show_article=1

And McCain's acknowledgement that "spread the wealth" is reasonable has to be winning him points with all those Joe the Six-Packing Notaplumbers:

d8EyGpOU3qM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EyGpOU3qM
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=189119&title=mccain-says-the-s-word

Obviously, Obama's as much of a fashionista as Palin:
1vkWRIcezc0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vkWRIcezc0

And the plot thickens...

Just be sure to buy Citgo when you fill up.
Is that where your moms works? Is she hot?


I still think BO wins but I saw where it was definately tightening in a couple important states.

I'm ready for BO to be Prez. I just hope he's more like Clinton than Carter. I'll respect him as my Prez.
Tahoe is a terrorist!!!!!!!!!

Is that where your moms works? Is she hot?

Tahoe is a terrorist!!!!!!!!!

Nah, actually I have no ties to South America whatsoever. My ethnic background is 100% Italian.

Nah, actually I have no ties to South America whatsoever. My ethnic background is 100% Italian.
I'll remember that next time i care. Otherwise you're a south american terrorist because i heard you have ties.

Italian? Like the mob? Just like I can't trust Obama because he's from the Chicago political machine I can't trust someone who came out of such a dirty and underhanded environment.

Win the lottery with Obama!
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j58HgA-9EH6LaAWYbq-lw5DvWVaQ

Win the fantasy football pool with Obama!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3653401&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

The latest Big 10 poll is great news for McCain!

http://www.bigtenpoll.org/

^That has Obama leading in Indiana. I haven't seen that anywhere else.

This made me laugh.

An obvious attempt to make it look like McCain knows how to use email, lol.


Subject: Fwd: My guest appearance on Saturday Night Live
Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:02 PM
From: "John McCain" <ecampaign@gop.com>Add sender to Contacts
To: Glenn@WTFDetroit.com

My Friends,

I hope you'll take the time today to read the email below from Governor Palin.

By now you've heard that the Democrats combined have raised nearly $200 million in the month of September alone and they're using this money to flood media markets across the country with misleading ads.

While I don't get much time to watch television on the campaign trail, I did see many of these attack ads watching the Arizona Cardinals play the Dallas Cowboys a few Sundays ago. Objective observers have said these ads are full of misinformation and the ads from the left are quickly adding up to the most expensive negative ad buy in history.

Your generous support is needed today to stop the left's misleading attacks against candidates from the top to bottom of our ticket. Will you make a donation right now of $25, $50, $100, $250, $500, $1,000 or more to McCain-Palin Victory 2008?

We're less than two weeks away from Election Day and thankful for any amount you can give to bolster advertising and get-out-the-vote efforts in important races across the country. Thank you for your support.

Sincerely,
John McCain


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sarah Palin
Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 3:38 PM
Subject: My guest appearance on Saturday Night Live

Dear Supporter,

If you caught my guest appearance on Saturday Night Live this weekend, you may have seen an ad or two (or twenty) from Senator Obama's campaign.

This barrage of advertising is adding up to the most expensive negative ad buy in political history. And these ads are funded with the nearly $200 million the Obama campaign and the DNC raised in September.

With this new money, they'll only step up their media buying efforts to flood every network with ads attacking our shared values. These ads are full of inaccurate information designed to mislead voters in key media markets.

We need your support to stop the Obama-Biden Democrats' media buying binge. Your immediate contribution of $25, $50, $100, $250, $500, $1,000 or more will help fund our team's ads in key media markets across the country.

The current media buying gap is a direct result of Senator Obama's broken pledge to accept public financing. This summer, Senator Obama chose to break his promise to the American people by opting out of the public financing system. But, you can be sure that our entire team will honor all of the promises we make in this campaign because we are men and women of our word.

Our team of reformers has a plan to take America in a new direction. Our economic policies focus on providing economic relief to those who need it most. While the Obama-Biden Democrats say they want to "spread the wealth around," our team won't support economic policies that punish Americans for working hard and pursuing the American Dream.

I'm asking you today to help our team get this message out. The funds you give today will help pay for upcoming ad buys and get-out-the-vote efforts.

If Senator Obama is elected and Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid are in charge of Congress, there will be nothing stopping them from raising your taxes, immediately pulling out of Iraq and placing your healthcare decisions in the hands of government bureaucrats.

We can't let this happen and that's why your financial support is so critical to our efforts. Every dollar we raise goes directly to help fund media buys and get-out-the-vote efforts in important races across the country. So, please make the most generous contribution you can give - whether its $25 or $250. We're certainly grateful for any help you can give. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Governor Sarah Palin

P.S. Are you tired of watching the barrage of liberal television ads the Obama-Biden Democrats are running? If so, then I ask that you help us close the media buying gap by making a generous contribution of any amount to McCain-Palin Victory 2008. And if you can give $75 or more today, we'll send you an exclusive McCain-Palin Victory 2008 lapel pin to show your support during the final days of the campaign. We appreciate your support.

^^I got a letter in the mail that said the exact same thing.

I just pitched it...

I don't even remember donating to their campaign in the first place. $1 bumper sticker = campaign donation?

I wonder if I'll get a tax write off for that.

Actually, there's one poll in Indiana that's shown a small Obama lead for awhile -- the Selzer poll. Ann Selzer is among the most accurate pollsters, and has been pretty much dead-on throughout this season.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080917/NEWS0502/80917076

No, there's no way Obama's ahead in Indiana by 10 points. But I could see him taking it by a nose. McCain has largely ignored Indiana, it's a small state to cover, and a sizable chunk of Indiana is effectively suburban Chicago.

I'm surprised McCain has spent such little time in Indiana. Epsecially since Obama has Bayh to campaign for him there.

Yeah, McCain needs Indiana. If he loses that, he'll be forced to win every battleground state for sure.

GLENN GLENN GLENN!!!

NPR has the voice guy for the McCain add that talks about Obama teaching sex-ed to toddlers on!

Barack Obama won my grandfather's vote today, because I showed him this:

_9OhVMHIuO4

His statements in SF about peeps in PA clinging to guns or something, isn't seperating?

He's just another bullshit politician, imo. Marginally better than JM in some places and lots worse in others, imo. Thats why we all get a vote though.

^ BTW...I hope I'm wrong and he turns out to be the best Prez we've ever had.

^ BTW...I hope my slighted bias is wrong and he turns out to be the best Prez we've ever had.


Also where was this "all politicians are frauds" shtick when you though JM could win or when Bush threw out some of the worst horseshit ever everyday that you defended as if it were gold?

Give the man some credit, V. Guilty of that or not, at least he's not taking Wil's POV in thinking and hoping that Barack fails miserably just so he can say "I told ya so."

Nah, actually I have no ties to South America whatsoever. My ethnic background is 100% Italian.
OK then. What's the secret to making great spaghetti, you dirty Venezuelan?

His statements in SF about peeps in PA clinging to guns or something, isn't seperating?
That was Obama's attempt to give California people who wanted to rustle up votes Pennsylvania some insight into the psyche of some of the burned-out Midwest towns. It is something he'd said before in public (with better word choice), and is basically a rehash of a book called "What's The Matter With Kansas?" Some economically-disadvantaged folks vote social issues over economic ones because they feel used and abused economically no matter who's in charge. That's the truth.

What's often missed is that his ultimate advice to the California people was to just show up. That's the first step toward arriving at common ground and working together. It all starts with showing up. He didn't tell them to run for higher more-strategic ground.

There are definitely elements of Obama that are "typical politician". I'm not some dreamy pie-in-the-sky fanboy. I just see him as a lot better than the alternatives, someone worth voting for, not just to vote against.

Okay, how cool/innovative is this?

Check out the "billboard".

http://www.searchenginejournal.com/obama-campaign-advertising-in-ea-sports-madden-games/7837/


More on this:


Video games feature ads for Obama's campaign

By DEVLIN BARRETT – Oct 14, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) — Too busy playing video games to watch presidential ads on television? Barack Obama has found you, too, by becoming the first presidential candidate to buy ad space inside a game.

Nine video games from Electronic Arts Inc., ranging from the extremely popular "Madden 09" football game to the street racing "Burnout: Paradise," feature in-game ads from the Obama campaign. The ads — they appear on billboards and other signage — remind players that early voting has begun and plug a campaign Web site.

The idea of embedding advertising temporarily inside a video game is relatively new, having only begun about 18 months ago, and Obama is the first presidential candidate to buy space, company officials said.

The Democrat's ads are aimed at gamers who like sports, including NASCAR, NBA, NHL and skateboarding, meaning EA Sports' motto, "It's in the game," now applies to presidential politics as well.

EA spokeswoman Holly Rockwood would not say how much the ads cost, but she said they are running on the Xbox Live versions of the game through Nov. 3. They began earlier this month.

The timing of the Obama ads within the video game varies from state to state. Players in smaller states may see the Obama ads for the whole month, while users in bigger states may see them for a shorter period.

"It reaches an audience that is typically hard to reach — young males, roughly 18 to 34," said Rockwood. "That's very appealing to our advertisers."

For those who still associate video games with clunky "Pac Man" or "Space Invaders" consoles, here's how in-game advertising works: The Xbox 360 console connects to the Internet, so it can be updated with new features, including ads. In the case of "Burnout," the game came out in stores in January, but the Obama ads were only inserted this month.

Rockwood declined to say how much revenue the company generates from selling ad space in its games.

"What we're trying to do is offer ads in games where we're simulating a real-world environment, so our racing games, our sports games lend themselves to that," she said.

Hosted by Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Anybody watch SNL last night? I thought the opening was pretty funny with McCain trying to run away from Bush endorsing him. And Todd Palin in his Artic Cat jacket out mavericking the maverick.

McCain's brother dials 911 over a traffic jam!

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1008/563913.html

Having a dumbass brother is pretty presidential. Props to McCain!

At first I thought maybe that someone was just posing as his brother. But if you read the bottom the McCain camp said it has listened to the call and has no comment. If that wasn't his brother, they would have cleared his name for sure.

Also where was this "all politicians are frauds" shtick when you though JM could win or when Bush threw out some of the worst horseshit ever everyday that you defended as if it were gold?

Go look it up.

Go look it up.
why? you can't remember how many times you defended Bush?

I have defended bush from some of the stupid shit that is posted and criticized him in others. Its issue by issue for me.

Y'all are a bunch of robots that get your talking points in the morning and regurgitate what you've read. If its bad, its Bush's fault, its just easier that way for you.

I have defended bush from some of the stupid shit that is posted and criticized him in others. Its issue by issue for me.

Y'all are a bunch of robots that get your talking points in the morning and regurgitate what you've read. If its bad, its Bush's fault, its just easier that way for you.

Liberals are the root of all evil, I'm telling ya.

No network is perfect but Fox is the best, imo.


Yea Tahoe is not the robot in his world.


I have defended bush from some of the stupid shit that is posted and criticized him in others. Its issue by issue for me.
And in most issues you defend him unjustly like a robot defending its creator. You're that last person on earth that should EVER throw around robot talk. You haven't even been close to free thinking no matter how much you trick yourself into believing so.


If its bad, its Bush's fault, its just easier that way for you.
The easy way out is to act like its a plot against Bush rather than actually look at his career as President. Issue by issue is your motto yet its been a broken record of the same excuses no matter what the issue on your part. To me thats robotic. Again you have an excuse for everything you're called out on and when things get really thick you have a list of LOL's and one liners to fall down on and run from actual responses.



Give the man some credit, V. Guilty of that or not, at least he's not taking Wil's POV in thinking and hoping that Barack fails miserably just so he can say "I told ya so."
That's like giving McCain some credit because he's not as bad as Bush barely. I dont expect Tahoe to be like Wil in that regard though. He's a lil' too old and has way more responsibilities in life than Wil(who doesnt even do his own term paper), to sit around bitter over whose president. Obama being a disaster could change his life and his families life for the worse. So I doubt he ever roots for that.

I have no problem with any of those quotes, cept for the Liberals are the root quote. Not that I didn't say it, but who knows. I don't remember the overall discussion or if I was fucking around. I just don't remember.

Look , I generally vote Republican. Repubs prolly pervert the conservative agenda more then the Dems do liberal values, but they are generally the closest to the conservative agenda. Deal with it son.

And keep your talking points a comin.

Wow. Good luck on the robot talk Codename V. I doubt you'll get anywhere on that discussion. I simply can't believe someone from the party that force feeds people talking points on one extremely biased 'news' network (including their own VP candidate) is calling us robots.

I want no part of this discussion because clearly all logic has gone out the window.

Wow. Good luck on the robot talk Codename V. I doubt you'll get anywhere on that discussion. I simply can't believe someone from the party that force feeds people talking points on one extremely biased 'news' network (including their own VP candidate) is calling us robots.

I want no part of this discussion because clearly all logic has gone out the window.

Pretty much every time you post.

Question:

Until the election is over, can we rename the "Politics/Science/Religion" board "The Terrordome"?

Wow, nice Pee Wee Herman come back Tahoe.

I'm sure that the dozens of people who think for themselves on here are wrong and you are the lone source of logic.

Question:

Until the election is over, can we rename the "Politics/Science/Religion" board "The Terrordome"?

Politics/Science/Religion: Beyond Terrordome

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/mccain-volunteer-ashley-todd/224764?icid=100214839x1211757174x1200763696


Police Say Volunteer Lied About Attack
By JOE MANDAK, AP
PITT(Oct. 24) - Pittsburgh police say a McCain campaign volunteer made up a story of being robbed, pinned to the ground and having the letter "B'' scratched on her face in a politically inspired attack.

Maurita Bryant, the assistant chief of the police department's investigations division, says 20-year-old Ashley Todd is being charged with making a false report to police.
Todd, of College Station, Texas, initially said a 6-foot-4 black man robbed her at knifepoint Wednesday night and then cut her cheek after seeing a McCain sticker on her car.

Earlier Friday, police said there were "inconsistencies" in her story and gave her a polygraph test.

Among other things, police said photos and bank card information from an automated teller machine where the college student claimed she was robbed do not show her using the machine at the time, police said.

Pittsburgh police spokeswoman Diane Richard wouldn't release the polygraph results, but said, "we're still looking at some inconsistencies" in the woman's story.
Police said the student, Ashley Todd, of College Station, Texas, who is white, told them she was attacked by a 6-foot-4 black man Wednesday night.

Among the differences in her accounts are whether she lost consciousness, whether she remembers handing over money and how the man assaulted her, police said.
The report of the attack Thursday prompted the Republican presidential candidate and his running mate, Sarah Palin, to call Todd expressing their concern. Barack Obama's campaign also issued a statement wishing Todd well and hoping the attacker would be swiftly brought to justice.

The Associated Press could not immediately locate Todd or her family.
Ethan Eilon, executive director of the College Republican National Committee, told reporters that Todd worked in New York for several months before moving to Pennsylvania two weeks ago to continue working for the group.

Eilon declined to comment on the investigation Friday or to help The Associated Press contact Todd. In a follow-up e-mail, Eilon said, "We think this girl has endured enough and that this is going to be something for her and her family to work through."

Richard, the police spokeswoman, said police have pictures of the victim and her injuries, but are not releasing them. She said they are "more or less" consistent with a picture that has surfaced on the Internet that show a woman with a black eye and a red backward "B'' that looks like a welt or scrape on her right cheek.

"It's not like her cheek was carved out," Richard said. "It's more like a scrape or a scratch."

In her initial account, Richard said, Todd attempted to use the ATM when the man approached her from behind, put a knife with a 4- to 5-inch blade to her throat and demanded money. She told police she handed the assailant $60 and walked away.
Todd told investigators that she suspected the man then noticed a John McCain sticker on her car, became angry and punched her in the back of the head, knocking her to the ground and telling her "you are going to be a Barack supporter," police said in a statement.

She said he continued to punch and kick her while threatening "to teach her a lesson for being a McCain supporter," police said. She said he then sat on her chest, pinned her hands down with his knees and scratched a backward letter "B'' into her face using what she believed to be a dull knife.

The woman told police she didn't seek medical attention, but instead went to a friend's apartment nearby and called police about 45 minutes later.

Police have reinterviewed Todd at least once since her initial statement, Richard said.
In the subsequent discussions with investigators, according to the police statement, Todd said she was accosted as she approached the bank and fled her attacker, fell to the ground and the assailant began beating and fondling her.

Police Cmdr. Larry Ross, who is in charge of the police precinct where the attack was first reported, said Todd's story has continued to change.

"I guess she elaborated more when she went down to the bureau headquarters. She added other things to it that we didn't have at first, that she didn't tell the initial officer," Ross said.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2008-10-24 11:18:23

http://o.aolcdn.com/photo-hub/news_gallery/5/8/582668/1224864547406.JPEG

Wow, nice Pee Wee Herman come back Tahoe.

I'm sure that the dozens of people who think for themselves on here are wrong and you are the lone source of logic.

I'm not the one replying to every single post I disagree with. I don't have the time or desire. Y'all are sheep and follow your talking points. Y'all are the ones who think you've got the corner on logic.

1583...something didn't seem right on this story from the begining.

Listened to NPR today (it's on at work, and our Tech is the best around, so we don't question what he listens to). They were discussing "socialism", since the McCain camp has been pushing that word quite a bit... especially Palin.

One of the guests made a statement so obvious I never noticed it: Alaska, with all of it's oil subsidies and residential paybacks by the government on oil revenue, IS THE MOST SOCIALISTIC STATE IN THE UNION.

And here's Palin, using "socialism" like it's the ecoomic plague.

Hmph.

TALKING POINTS!

Re-distribution of wealth....Alaska style.

Listened to NPR today (it's on at work, and our Tech is the best around, so we don't question what he listens to). They were discussing "socialism", since the McCain camp has been pushing that word quite a bit... especially Palin.

One of the guests made a statement so obvious I never noticed it: Alaska, with all of it's oil subsidies and residential paybacks by the government on oil revenue, IS THE MOST SOCIALISTIC STATE IN THE UNION.

And here's Palin, using "socialism" like it's the ecoomic plague.

Hmph.

Hard to argue with all that. But what cracks me up is having JM call someone a socialist. He's trying to come across as some conservative or something.

I was stationed up there for 2 years and iirc, AK has been doing that for quite a while. I think thats right. Or they use the revenues to help the budget or something. I don't know, what else would you do with them? Give them to DC?

My robotic self would like to report recent Republican endorsements for Obama:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/24/obamacans-prominent-republicans-line-up-behind-obama/

I was stationed up there for 2 years and iirc, AK has been doing that for quite a while. I think thats right. Or they use the revenues to help the budget or something. I don't know, what else would you do with them? Give them to DC?
building bridges?
nvm, they were asking for federal money for that.

1583...something didn't seem right on this story from the begining.

Maybe it was the BACKWARDS B ON HER CHEEK?

You know, as if SOMEONE DID IT TO THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR?

Maybe it was the BACKWARDS B ON HER CHEEK?

You know, as if SOMEONE DID IT TO THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR?

I was hoping someone would say that.

That backward-b isn't an aerial view of miniature titties?
Who could have known?!?!

Maybe it was the BACKWARDS B ON HER CHEEK?

You know, as if SOMEONE DID IT TO THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR?
I'm waiting for Wil to say:


Maybe that black person can't write. Many are illiterate, you know.

SHOCKING NEWS ALERT: GIANT DYSLEXIC NEGRO CRYPTOGRAPHER HOLDS MCCAIN WORKER MOTIONLESS FOR LONG ENOUGH TO TRACE A PERFECT BACKWARDS "B" IN HER DOUGHY, FORMLESS CHEEK WITH A KNIFE BUT MANAGES TO ONLY ABRADE THE SKIN INSTEAD OF SLICING IT OPEN (A SKILL AWARD WAS PRESENTED IN HIS HONOR LATER)

UPDATE: SHE WAS FELT UP AND HAD $60 STOLEN, WHICH IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE CONSIDERING THAT HER ATTACKER IS SOMETHING LIKE A COMBINATION OF CROCODILE DUNDEE (KNIFE EXPERT) AND DR. CHRISTIAAN BARNARD (PIONEERING HEART SURGEON)


















Wait, so she was making it up? I for one am surprised.

building bridges?
nvm, they were asking for federal money for that.

Hey Cindy, go fuck yourself. You fucking lil twit.

j/k

Maybe it was the BACKWARDS B ON HER CHEEK?

You know, as if SOMEONE DID IT TO THEMSELVES IN THE MIRROR?

Actually it was even before the pic came out.

SHOCKING NEWS ALERT: GIANT DYSLEXIC NEGRO CRYPTOGRAPHER HOLDS MCCAIN WORKER MOTIONLESS FOR LONG ENOUGH TO TRACE A PERFECT BACKWARDS "B" IN HER DOUGHY, FORMLESS CHEEK WITH A KNIFE BUT MANAGES TO ONLY ABRADE THE SKIN INSTEAD OF SLICING IT OPEN (A SKILL AWARD WAS PRESENTED IN HIS HONOR LATER)

UPDATE: SHE WAS FELT UP AND HAD $60 STOLEN, WHICH IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE CONSIDERING THAT HER ATTACKER IS SOMETHING LIKE A COMBINATION OF CROCODILE DUNDEE (KNIFE EXPERT) AND DR. CHRISTIAAN BARNARD (PIONEERING HEART SURGEON)


Shaq has confessed

Everyone knows the B stands for Kobe.

Everyone knows the B stands for Kobe.
If that were true it would be on her asshole

Yeah, Kobe asks before he does it on their faces.

Understanding economics at an early age:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/26/barackobama-uselections2008

Barry was going to be a basketball player. Barry wrote in my year book: 'Go on and get that law degree, and I'm going to be a famous basketball player, and when I need to sue my team I'll call you.'

I had an interesting political weekend. We almost got run over by Hillary Clinton's motorcade Friday night as she left the Oxford Hotel. Then we went to Obama's rally Sunday. They held it in the civic center park that supposedly holds 35,000 people. There were over 100,000 of us there (it spilled across two more parks and up the steps of the state capital building two blocks away). lots of fun. Here is a picture from the rally (in case you are wondering, the park is filled with people under the trees as well):

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/1027/20081027_124859_cd27polprzobama.jpg

Apparently McCain guaranteed victory:


Put it on the front page, back page, middle of the page, wherever. Headliner. I will win this election.

A guaransenile?

Obama is about to get POWned.

Interesting stuff, the global electoral map.

http://www.economist.com/vote2008/

Of course, the right spins this as a bad thing.

^^Of course. Why would we want to cooperate with anyone or be on their good sides? Why would we do what they want?

THIS IS AMERICA!

^^RIGHT Justified = brilliant

Police Say Volunteer Lied About Attack
By JOE MANDAK, AP
PITT(Oct. 24) - Pittsburgh police say a McCain campaign volunteer made up a story of being robbed, pinned to the ground and having the letter "B'' scratched on her face in a politically inspired attack.
Ashley Todd (or the AP) lied about being a "volunteer".
She was a paid contractor for the CRNC:

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/506

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1225104785.shtml

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1225104785.shtml

That was a good read.

The full audio interview is even better. It's nice to hear candidates talk like intelligent adults for a sustained period of time, especially after a long 'silly season'. Warning -- this is entirely about constitutional law pertaining to civil rights involving a panel of law professors Obama was part of:

http://www.wbez.org/audio_library/ram/od/od-010118.ram

I don't think anyone's presidential run is entirely high-minded, but McCain came right out and said his wasn't. I can't believe that this doesn't get more play, that there isn't a "Country Second" attack ad by somebody:

6eKwTL8SwbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eKwTL8SwbI

uj2pmBW1Xb0

Two things on that video:

1. Makes me miss Tim Russert

2. If that is Fugazi in the background, I got the inference.

I saw the Russert interview live while channel surfing almost exactly on that question, forgot all about it.

Key endorsements for McCain!
http://newsone.blackplanet.com/entertainment/humor-supervillains-endorse-mccain/

If McCain's healthcare credit is good, why wouldn't young healthy kids want it?
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/28/news/economy/health_care_and_election/?postversion=2008102807

McCain advisers counter these concerns. Changing the tax treatment wouldn't hurt the employer-sponsored system and would allow more of the uninsured to buy their own coverage, they say. Also, his advisers say a McCain administration would keep an eye on the credit to make sure it didn't lag behind the cost of coverage, while also working to lower the rate of medical inflation.

Younger, healthier workers likely wouldn't abandon their company-sponsored plans, said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, McCain's senior economic policy adviser.

"Why would they leave?" said Holtz-Eakin. "What they are getting from their employer is way better than what they could get with the credit."

vL20TdHjX2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL20TdHjX2s

Both candidates had events in the same general part of Pennsylvania.
It was raining, and one of the two candidates cancelled their event.
Guess which one?

http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk392/hopereborn/captcpsoar25281008162629photo01phot.jpg

He looks like he's about to bitch slap Ahmidinijad.

Both candidates had events in the same general part of Pennsylvania.
It was raining, and one of the two candidates cancelled their event.
Guess which one?

http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk392/hopereborn/captcpsoar25281008162629photo01phot.jpg

Putting aside that McCain is maybe one bad headcold away from Palin being at the top of the ticket... I wonder how many people would actually show up to watch him wander around in the rain if he didn't cancel.

Obama didn't cancel, and 9G people showed up.

I hope that the next President meets Ahmedinejad totally dressed like him. Like that one guy transformed himself into Dr. Phil when he went on the Dr. Phil show.

An interesting read on why Obama was right to opt out of public financing:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-k-wilson/why-obama-is-right-to-rej_b_108183.html

Some of the key points:
-Obama never promised to take public financing, only to pursue it.
-Obama opted out because McCain would not take the steps with him to properly fix the system.
-McCain broke the rules and took private money in the primaries after opting to take public financing.
-Those who accept it have their ads controlled by 527 groups and their parties instead of their own message.
-The candidate who wins would owe their election to those groups who ran the ads.
-Candidates cannot run a 50 state campaign with that amount, thus much of the country is ignored (and not energized to vote)

What is 'change'?

- Obama's not going to make college tuition less expensive for me
- Obama's not going to bring down gas prices
- Obama's not going to fix Michigan's economy, and bring back all these automotive jobs
- Obama's not going to lower taxes
- Obama's not going to make a difference in whether or not I see a dime of Social Security when I'm older


What's my incentive to voting for Barack Obama? Aside from comparing him to McCain, what does Obama have that's in my best interest?

Since I became of voting age, I've seen two prominent Democrats completely fail at their jobs (Granholm & Kilpatrick). So what the hell am I supposed to interpret as "change"?

Either way, we're looking at a one-term President. Regardless of who wins.

When the economy hit's a recession, you can't avoid a depression, and by the time we enter the 'recovery' phase of the economic cycle, 4 years will have ended, and whoever wins in '12 will get the credit for reshaping the economy. (kind of like how Clinton reaped what Bush Sr. sewed)

I stopped reading with your "not going to lower taxes" comment.

Don't know why I even started reading that post, but that's another issue.

I guess dinner is on Wil since he makes a quarter mil plus a year.

When the economy hit's a recession, you can't avoid a depression

Let me guess, you paid someone to do your econ homework.

"Hits" should be without an apostrophe. Wil, you should fire these people.

We've either had a LOT of depressions or very few recessions.

The kitchen sink tactics at work again:


"It seems that there is yet another radical professor from the neighborhood who spent a lot of time with Barack Obama going back several years," Palin said at an event in Bowling Green, Ohio.
"This is important because his associate, Rashid Khalidi ... in addition to being a political ally of Barack Obama, he's a former spokesperson for the Palestinian Liberation Organization."

In a radio interview with Radio Mambi in Miami Wednesday, Senator John McCain said that the Los Angeles Times should release a tape of an event that his opponent attended with Bill Ayers and Rashid Khalidi , a former University of Chicago professor now teaching at Columbia University who is alleged to have ties with the PLO. “We should know about their relationship including, apparently, information that is held by the Los Angeles Times concerning an event that Mr. Ayers attended with a PLO spokesman. The Los Angeles Times refuses to make that videotape public. I’m not in the business about talking about media bias but what if there was a tape with John McCain with a neo-Nazi outfit being held by some media outlet. I think the treatment of the issue would be slightly different.”

Obama was asked about his relationship with Khalidi in May at a town hall with Jewish voters.
“I do know him because I taught at the University of Chicago,” Obama said. “And he is a Palestinian. And I do know him and I have had conversations. He is not one of my advisors; he’s not one of my foreign policy people. His kids went to the Lab school where my kids go as well. He is a respected scholar, although he vehemently disagrees with a lot of Israel’s policy.”
“To pluck out one person who I know and who I’ve had a conversation with who has very different views than 900 of my friends and then to suggest that somehow that shows that maybe I’m not sufficiently pro-Israel, I think, is a very problematic stand to take,” Obama said. “so we got to be careful about guilt by association.”
And while McCain might not have known Khalidi personally, he has ties to the Palestinian as well. During the 1990s, while McCain served as chairman of the International Republican Institute, the group gave grant money to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi.


That last part is my favorite. I think both relationships are tenuous at best, but the McCain camp doesn't care.

Obama didn't cancel, and 9G people showed up.

I hope that the next President meets Ahmedinejad totally dressed like him. Like that one guy transformed himself into Dr. Phil when he went on the Dr. Phil show.
Sloppy wording on my part. I expected people would see that Obama was speaking in the rain and figure out I wasn't talking about him. Yup, it was McCain that canceled. McCain moved one other event in the same place indoors due to rain, and had tens if not hundreds of people show up.

I posted that picture largely because it was so badass -- ranks up there with the picture of him in the cowboy hat. He needs to dress like Shaft every time he meets with world leaders, just on general principle.

When the economy hit's a recession, you can't avoid a depression, and by the time we enter the 'recovery' phase of the economic cycle, 4 years will have ended, and whoever wins in '12 will get the credit for reshaping the economy. (kind of like how Clinton reaped what Bush Sr. sewed)

I... don't think you quite understand what a "recesson" is.



Great Depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression) 1929–1939 10 years Stock markets crashed worldwide, and a banking collapse took place in the United States. This sparked a global downturn, including a second, more minor recession in the United States, the Recession of 1937 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1937).

[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-18)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-NBER-2) Recession of 1953 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1953) 1953–1954 1 year After a post-Korean War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War) inflationary period, more funds were transferred into national security (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security). The Federal Reserve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve) changed monetary policy to be more restrictive in 1952 due to fears of further inflation.

[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-19)[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-20)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-NBER-2) Recession of 1957 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1958) 1957–1958 1 year Monetary policy was tightened during the two years preceding 1957, followed by an easing of policy at the end of 1957. The budget balance resulted in a change in budget surplus of 0.8% of GDP in 1957 to a budget deficit of 0.6% of GDP in 1958, and then to 2.6% of GDP in 1959.

[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-21)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-NBER-2) 1973 oil crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis) 1973–1975 2 years A quadrupling of oil prices by OPEC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC)Vietnam War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War) lead to stagflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation) coupled with high government spending due to the in the United States.

[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-22)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-NBER-2) Early 1980s recession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession) 1980–1982 2 years The Iranian Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution)1979 energy crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis). This was caused by the new regime in power in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran), which exported oil at inconsistent intervals and at a lower volume, forcing prices to go up. Tight monetary policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_policy) in the United States to control inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation) lead to another recession. The changes were made largely because of inflation that was carried over from the previous decade due to the 1973 oil crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis) and the 1979 energy crisis. sharply increased the price of oil around the world in 1979.

[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-23)[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-24)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-NBER-2) Early 1990s recession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1990s_recession) 1990–1991 1 year Industrial production and manufacturing-trade sales decreased in early 1991.

[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-25)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions#cite_note-NBER-2) Early 2000s recession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession) 2001–2003 2 years The collapse of the dot-com bubble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble), the September 11th attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks#Economic_aftermath), and accounting scandals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting_scandals#2002_scandals)North American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America) contributed to a relatively mild contraction in the North American economy.



Wow. Look at all of those 1 and 2 year recessions, you fucking moron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions

What is 'change'?

- Obama's not going to make college tuition less expensive for me
- Obama's not going to bring down gas prices
- Obama's not going to fix Michigan's economy, and bring back all these automotive jobs
- Obama's not going to lower taxes
- Obama's not going to make a difference in whether or not I see a dime of Social Security when I'm older
Will McCain? If so, why do you believe him? He's flip-flopped on damn near everything economic, except his promise to remove earmarks when they are 1% of the budget and would have little effect on the overall economy one way or the other. He's a bonehead when it comes to the economy, by his own admission. If you think Obama's a liar, say so, and show some hard evidence of lying on his part that isn't spin. On most matters, Obama's been consistent. McCain can't run the financials of his fucking political campaign, and had to break the law to stay solvent. What makes you think that he's up to running our economy?


What's my incentive to voting for Barack Obama? Aside from comparing him to McCain, what does Obama have that's in my best interest?
Of course, you realize that this is an election in which, for all practical purposes, the choice is between Obama and McCain, right? Even if all of what you say is true, that makes Obama a no-op, and I'd take "no-op" over someone who's a dumbass.


Since I became of voting age, I've seen two prominent Democrats completely fail at their jobs (Granholm & Kilpatrick). So what the hell am I supposed to interpret as "change"?
You've seen one U.S. President fail at his job to at least the same extent as you feel about Granholm and Kilpatrick. 9/11, a botched invasion, and a fucked economy happened on his watch -- failures that are MASSIVE.

Before his personal fuckups killed everything, Kilpatrick did a lot of good things for Detroit, much of it riding the coattails of a politician who's in the Obama mold. I just had an amusing conversation with family that veered into the politics. Someone was bitching about Granholm, but 2 minutes later, praising the business coming in from the film makers. They were completely oblivious of the relationship between the two, until I chimed in.


Either way, we're looking at a one-term President. Regardless of who wins.

When the economy hit's a recession, you can't avoid a depression, and by the time we enter the 'recovery' phase of the economic cycle, 4 years will have ended, and whoever wins in '12 will get the credit for reshaping the economy. (kind of like how Clinton reaped what Bush Sr. sewed)
Bush Sr.'s biggest role in the economic boom of the 90s was raising taxes. :)

The not-so-big secret is that people don't remember the past four years. If things are completely in the shitter 2 years in, if you're better than 2 years back, you win. "Are you better off now than 4 years ago" is a great line, but the collective doesn't have a big memory. Reagan won with 1980-level unemployment and sub-1980 wages for most, because things were better in 1984 than in 1982 (and not really THAT much better, though the effects of massive debt accumulation were even less well understood back thenn).

Sloppy wording on my part. I expected people would see that Obama was speaking in the rain and figure out I wasn't talking about him. Yup, it was McCain that canceled. McCain moved one other event in the same place indoors due to rain, and had tens if not hundreds of people show up.

I posted that picture largely because it was so badass -- ranks up there with the picture of him in the cowboy hat. He needs to dress like Shaft every time he meets with world leaders, just on general principle.

I got what you were saying. My reply was speculating on whether anyone would show up if McCain had an outdoor event in the rain.

The Economist endorses Obama:
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12516666&source=features_box1

^ this part in the article is a good read:


If only the real John McCain had been running

Joe? Joe...? Bueller? Bueller?

j1TT7gt5F0w

Is this the real John McCain? Is he talking about the real Barack Obama?
http://obama.senate.gov/news/051217-obama_shuns_lim/

Obama's approach has mostly earned him rave reviews - from Republicans and Democrats alike - who say he is an open-minded, deliberative lawmaker.

Coburn called him a "phenomenal young man who will go to great heights," while Martinez said he hasn't seemed "dogmatic" or "ideologically driven" on any issue.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. and a frequent maverick within the GOP, said: "He's very impressive, he's thoughtful, he's centrist."

Life imitates comedy. May 29, 1993. (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48940)

Joe? Joe...? Bueller? Bueller?

j1TT7gt5F0w

Big timed by JTP.

That was embawassing.

Yosemite Sam and some other dude endorses Obama!

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=189700

Just watched that last video again for like the 5th time.

It gets really uncomfortable at the end, right before, during and after he says "You're all Joe the Plumber!".

Heard someone say..."Too bad for Joe the Plumber he isn't a terrorist. Cuz then the libs and the ACLU would be up in arms about his privacy being invaded" lol, and how true.

You tell 'em, Tahoe!

just playing

You can't seriously feel sorry for his "privacy" being invaded, can you?

Dude's on his own tour bus, has hired a publicist and is looking for a country music record deal.

People who hire publicists are looking to have their privacy invaded.

Don't question the questioner!

'His' records with the state of Ohio are not public, afaict. They were gone through and the info was released to the public.

It seems actionable to me.

The guy might be a douche, doesn't matter.

Double standard

'His' records with the state of Ohio are not public, afaict. They were gone through and the info was released to the public.
Which records are you talking about?

The lien for not paying taxes was a matter of public record.
The lack of licensing was a public record.

The ones that they were talking about on the 'news' today that I was watching. I'm thinkin you didn't catch that one.

I'll have to get back to you on this, but for now....lol @ me....till I come back and OWN YOU on this.

YB9ROwrbBsU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB9ROwrbBsU
NlkeGzm-FQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlkeGzm-FQo

The ones that they were talking about on the 'news' today that I was watching. I'm thinkin you didn't catch that one.

I'll have to get back to you on this, but for now....lol @ me....till I come back and OWN YOU on this.
I'm just asking the question. I wasn't trying to own anyone. :)

I know that the big stuff mentioned a couple minutes into Joe The Plumber's 15 minutes of fame were matters of public record.

1653 At least he doesn't hang around with terrorists

They are calling Joe the Plumber an American hero now. GMAB! (http://www.teehanlax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/kitkat_small.jpg)

I wanna be known as Tahoe the Builder when I grow up.

Do you have a builder's license? Then you are over qualified.

I'm just asking the question. I wasn't trying to own anyone. :)

I know that the big stuff mentioned a couple minutes into Joe The Plumber's 15 minutes of fame were matters of public record.

NVM...Billy O said his privacy was not invaded.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

Tomorrow's Zogby poll will show McCain with a 1 pt lead over Obama...

At this point, National polls like Gallup, Rasmussen, and Zogby don't really matter though...

Individual state polls are what really matters (as far as putting stock into a lead).

Tomorrow's Zogby poll will show McCain with a 1 pt lead over Obama...

At this point, National polls like Gallup, Rasmussen, and Zogby don't really matter though...

Individual state polls are what really matters (as far as putting stock into a lead).

Translation: I can read the Drudge Report.

To which I reply, I can read www.fivethirtyeight.com

ARG and Zogby are the A-Z of bad pollsters.

In other news, McCain trickles down on his field organization:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/30/AR2008103004167.html

The decision to finance a final advertising push is forcing McCain to curtail spending on Election Day ground forces to help usher his supporters to the polls, according to Republican consultants familiar with McCain's strategy.

The vaunted, 72-hour plan that President Bush used to mobilize voters in 2000 and 2004 has been scaled back for McCain. He has spent half as much as Obama on staffing and has opened far fewer field offices. This week, a number of veteran GOP operatives who orchestrate door-to-door efforts to get voters to the polls were told they should not expect to receive plane tickets, rental cars or hotel rooms from the campaign.

"The desire for parity on television comes at the expense of investment in paid boots on the ground," said one top Republican strategist who has been privy to McCain's plans. "The folks who will oversee the volunteer operation have been told to get out into the field on their own nickel."

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/Lava200/Poll-nyt-2.jpg

And, supposedly, one of Obama's aunts was recently found in the U.S. (by the British incarnation of Fox News, through what may be a Bush administration leak) and is probably an illegal immigrant. There's an uncle of his as well, but no one knows where he is:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5042571.ece
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081101/ap_on_el_pr/obama_aunt

It isn't at all clear that Obama knew they were in the U.S. in a specific way, but it's sounding like he has the wacky embarrassing relative angle covered that I thought McCain was better than Obama on.

Here's some hope for all you McCain fans!
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/31/rick_davis_sees_one_of_the_gre.html

"We are witnessing, I believe, probably one of the greatest comebacks that you've seen since John McCain won the primary," his campaign manager, Rick Davis, said in a conference call with reporters

I'd really like to see the GOP go down in flames, a complete disaster, come election day. Not because I'm some liberal whack-job, but because a crash-and-burn Nov. 4th for the Republicans would be the wake-up call BOTH parties need.

From that point forward, the mantra would be "do your job, or suffer 2008 all over again."

McCain and Fey on SNL tonight.

As has often been pointed out by the right, Obama doesn't have a lot of executive experience. Given that, I think it's intersting to look at his stint at the Harvard Law Review to see what kind of judgement he exercised in an environment that was divided both politically and racially.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice2008/obama/harvard.html


He was unwilling to undermine, based on the way I viewed it, meritocratic outcomes or democratic outcomes in order to advance a racial agenda. That earned him a lot of recrimination and criticism from some on the left, particularly some of the minority editors of the Review. ...

It confirmed the hope that I and others had had at the time of the election that he would basically be an honest broker, that he would not let ideology or politics blind him to the enduring institutional interests of the Review. It told me that he valued the success of his own presidency of the Review above scoring political points of currying favor with his political supporters.

If Obama carries that kind of even handedness into the white house and conservatives are making these kinds of comments about him after four or eight years of dealing with him, it probably will have been a pretty good presidency.

Local flava:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081101/POLITICS01/811010422

A Grosse Pointe Farms woman refused Halloween treats to children whose parents support Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

In other shocking news, Dick Cheney came out from an undisclosed location to endorse McCain today, giving Obama an opportunity to tie McCain to a politician even less popular than Bush. Speaking of which...

ns3HydfP8nk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns3HydfP8nk

Hypothetical Question: Now I know it's looking pretty bleak, okay, I'm not THAT stupid/arrogant. But, let's say hypothetically, John McCain nips Barack Obama on Tuesday night. What happens to the Democratic party?

Here's some hope for all you McCain fans!
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/31/rick_davis_sees_one_of_the_gre.html

I'm not so much a JM fan as much as not wanting BO to be Prez. I still find it perplexing that he is the nominee.

Who are you talking about when you say "he"?

Remember, neither candidate was particularly probable at the start of the year. It was slated to be Hillary vs. Rudy.

He=JM

Oh, I get where the confusion is with that post. Takes me a while sometime.

Hypothetical Question: Now I know it's looking pretty bleak, okay, I'm not THAT stupid/arrogant. But, let's say hypothetically, John McCain nips Barack Obama on Tuesday night. What happens to the Democratic party?

It'd be a staggering body blow, no doubt about it. However, controlling both houses of congress, especially adding to a senate majority would still leave them in a decent position to have a say in things and make another run at it in 2012.

He=JM


FWIW, Barack Obama does make John McCain look conservative.

FWIW, Barack Obama does make John McCain look conservative.

And you know what that says about BO

Make no mistake, Republicans killed the conservative label for a generation by prancing into financial liberalism, so voters are going to punish us all by sticking us with super liberalism.

Obama drew 80K people in Cleveland (of all places) today.

Having Bruce Springsteen along might have helped a bit.

Of course, McCain has Hank Williams Jr.

Obama drew 80K people in Cleveland (of all places) today.

Having Bruce Springsteen along might have helped a bit.

Of course, McCain has Hank Williams Jr.

79,999 actually. Zekyl's Pinto broke down halfway there.

spin spin spin


GOP-ers chart path to McCain win

David Paul Kuhn – 2 hrs 20 mins ago
POLITICO.com

Time is short and the polls are painting a grim picture for John McCain, but top Republicans believe they still see a clear path to the White House.

“I don’t acknowledge it’s a long shot. It's a realistic shot,” said RNC deputy chairman Frank Donatelli of his candidate's prospects.

Donatelli argues that nearly every pollster has over-sampled Democrats, thus exaggerating Obama's support while understating that for McCain.

“I don’t think it’s outrageous," he said, "to think we are going to do much better with party turnout than some of the models indicate."

For that reason, Donatelli believes McCain can win all the big swing states in play: Florida, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina and perhaps Pennsylvania.

He also says the public now sees Obama as not yet tested and ready for the job, and is fearful that he will increase taxes, quickly grow the federal government and forestall long-term economic growth. Voters will conclude, he says, that “liberal Democrats should not control the whole federal government.”

Donatelli said that the RNC’s internal polling now shows the race within the margin of error in key swing states, though he declined to say which ones.

“I’ve been saying for some time that from our polling I think it's much tighter, a 3-point national race on Friday,” said Ed Goes, a Republican pollster who consults with the McCain campaign. “I think this race is going to be extremely tight.”

Goes predicts, as does top McCain pollster Bill McInturff, that Obama will not significantly increase the percentage of young voters or black voters from the last election, voters they say the Democrat needs to come out in record numbers to get over the top in several crucial swing states.

Last week McInturff wrote in a memo, “All signs say we are headed to an election that may easily be too close to call by next Tuesday.”

To win the 270 electoral votes needed to take the White House, though, McCain would have to win a string of large states that either roughly split or lean to Obama. States like Florida, Ohio, Virginia, and North Carolina would have to go for McCain. McCain would also have to hold states like Missouri and Indiana, which is feasible, and win either what appears a long shot to take Pennsylvania or, for example, Colorado and Nevada.

McCain loyalists have responded to the daunting electoral math by raising the question famously posed by Hillary Clinton shortly before she took April Pennsylvania Democratic primary: “why can't [Obama] close the deal?”

McCain’s campaign manager Rick Davis said Sunday on ABC News that if suburban and rural voters “haven’t bought into the Obama massage… they’re probably not gonna.”

In a conference call with reporters this weekend, Davis said, We're pretty jazzed up about what we're seeing in the movement in this election."

"We are witnessing, I believe," he said, "probably one of the greatest comebacks that you've seen since John McCain won the [Republican] primary."

If that's so, it will have been accomplished on a wave of eleventh-hour second guessing by soft-Obama supporters and a significant portion of white independents, a group polls now show leaning to Obama, returning at the voting booth to their partisan leanings in recent presidential cycles.

Thus McCain's efforts in the closing days of the campaign to paint Obama as that hoariest of political bogeymen: the tax-and–spend liberal, if not outright socialist.

And though the McCain campaign has shied away from the topic, there remains the question of whether racism has distorted the poll numbers, and will reveal itself on Election Day.

As conservative analyst Bill Kristol said on Fox News Sunday, “Obama has many paths to victory; McCain probably has only one narrow path to victory. But,” he added, “you only need one narrow path.”

Most election-watchers, though, are deeply skeptical—including some close to McCain.

“As much as I would want to see a Dewey-defeats-Truman moment, it's next to impossible for me to see how that occurs mathematically as well as organizationally,” said John Weaver, McCain’s longtime friend and ally, and the top strategist for his 2000 bid for the presidency.

When Weaver was asked if he can envision a feasible scenario that allows McCain to win, Weaver paused and responded: “Intellectually honest, no I can’t.”

For that reason, Donatelli believes McCain can win all the big swing states in play: Florida, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina and perhaps Pennsylvania.

The problem is that doesn't even get him the win if he gets ALL of those states (plus Missouri, Montana, ND and Indiana which are all toss ups). he'd still be 8 votes short. he'd also have to win Wisonsin or Colorado or 2 of these 4 (Maine, NH, NM or NV).

It feels like xmas morning, and I have a feeling that there's an Atari 2600 under the tree for me.

I gave a mental middle finger to George W. Bush this a.m. when I voted.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081104/ap_on_el_ge/gop_workers

Anyone know where we can get live updates of the polls?

It feels like xmas morning, and I have a feeling that there's an Atari 2600 under the tree for me.

I gave a mental middle finger to George W. Bush this a.m. when I voted.
Same here man. I stopped to get some bagels for the office and am not sure if I'm being a socialist by spreading the wealth. Either way, Obama better fucking win this thing. I'm on some Phil Collins shit today and "been waiting for this moment for all my life."

Should we make an OGT?

My daughter has been excited about voting for a couple weeks. She was kind of disappointed that it's really just waiting in line to color in some dots. She still did it though. Took about a half hour at my polling place.

Same here man. I stopped to get some bagels for the office and am not sure if I'm being a socialist by spreading the wealth. Either way, Obama better fucking win this thing. I'm on some Phil Collins shit today and "been waiting for this moment for all my life."

LOL. I was listening to the radio this morning and a guy called up with the socialist arguement. The host told him in fact the wealth is being redistributed upwards right now and of course the caller disagreed. He told the caller about the tax breaks the rich get that everyone else does not. Of course the caller did not accept that. The caller also didn't seem to care that the Post Office, Fire Department, Public Roads and all those other public services are socialistic items.

There is a big difference between Democratic socialism and Marxism.

There is a big difference between Democratic socialism and Marxism.

Yep. It's too bad more people don't understand this.

The difference between socialism and capitalism is 3% at the top tax bracket.

It's like they take pride in being ignorant.

I just think the whole socialist labeling game takes away from the essential debates themselves. Public vs. Private healthcare. What and how much we should invest on infrastructure. It's just unfortunate that so many people won't actually look at these issues for some misplaced fear on a term that's become more and more nebulous in its usage today.