:lathamjahnke:


Offensive spark Jarvis Hayes most recent odd man out of Pistons rotation

BY KRISTA JAHNKE • FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER • May 2, 2008

Forward Jarvis Hayes suddenly has found himself as the odd man out in Saunders' rotation. Asked about it Thursday, he cited the team's success and said, "I'm holding up. Holding up good."

Hayes doesn't want to complain, especially while on a three-game winning streak. But it's clear he is upset to see his role change so drastically.

During the regular season, Hayes averaged 16 minutes and 6.7 points per game. In the playoffs, those numbers have shrunk to 6.7 minutes and 2.5 points.

Saunders said Thursday that from here on, who gets playing time behind Tayshaun Prince -- Hayes or rookie Arron Afflalo -- will depend on game situations.

"If we're struggling scoring-wise and we need a shooter, we'll go with Jarvis," Saunders said. "If, defensively, we've been solid ... then we probably want to keep our defense presence, and we'll go with Arron."

Hayes said he had been in the dark about the reasoning behind his demotion.

"No, (I) wasn't understanding," he said. "It was never made aware to me. Say we had more communication, it would be a lot easier to understand. But I'm rolling with it right now. We're winning. That makes it a whole lot easier."

Hayes got his first taste of the playoffs last season with the Washington Wizards, but he was starting and playing 35 minutes per game.

"He's never been a part of nothing like this before," Billups said. "Coming off the bench, it takes a tough skin and a strong mind because, sometimes, you're not going to have opportunities. ... But it's the playoffs. Matchups change, things change."

Hayes understands that and said he will be ready when needed. He just hopes that when the time comes, he gets a few more minutes to establish himself.

"It's pretty hard to get into any kind of rhythm offensively or defensively when you're out there one, two minutes at a time," Hayes said. "But we're winning. Whenever it is I have to be ready, regardless of what it is, (I will be). I'm never going to burn a bridge."

:mccosky:

Hayes feels blue on bench
Reserve's minutes down for the postseason, and he's struggling to figure out the reason.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

PHILADELPHIA -- There are a lot of emotions roiling around inside Jarvis Hayes these days. He is trying to remain upbeat and positive presence, even though his role has all but been taken from him thus far in the postseason.

"How am I holding up?" he said, repeating the question before shoot-around Thursday. "I am holding up good. We're up three games to two, so I will just say it like that."

He may be feeling better today. Hayes played almost 11 minutes Thursday night as the Pistons went on to beat the 76ers, 100-77, winning the first round series in six games.

You don't become a professional athlete without having fierce pride. And there is no question Hayes' pride has been hurt. He had averaged 5.8 minutes over the first five games of this series, after averaging 15.7 in the regular season.

Hayes' most deflating moment came in Game 5. He was summoned by coach Flip Saunders, as usual, in the second quarter. But before he got into the game, Saunders called him back, deciding to use rookie Arron Afflalo instead.

"I just thought we needed a defensive presence at that time," Saunders said. "And Arron did a great job on (Andre) Iguodala."

When asked if he understood why Saunders used Afflalo and not him in that situation, Hayes said, "No. There was no understanding. That was never made aware to me. It's just if we had a little communication, it would have been a lot easier to understand. But I am hanging with it right now. We're winning, and winning makes it a whole lot easier."

Both Saunders and captain Chauncey Billups said they planned to speak with Hayes before Game 6. Hayes finished the night with six points and three rebounds.

"It's the playoffs and certain matchups are going to require certain people on the court," Billups said. "When you are coming off the bench, you don't know the amount of minutes you are going to play. It all depends on the flow of the game. It's very important you stay locked in. You saw the importance of that when Arron came in. He hadn't played all series and he came off and was ready to go. That's what we need from everybody."

Billups said he talked to Hayes about that on the bench in Game 5.

"Jarvis has never been a part of something like this before," Billups said. "Coming off the bench takes some tough skin and a strong mind. Sometimes you aren't going to have an opportunity, but the longer we go and the better we play, the better everybody is looked at."

Saunders said he hasn't given up on Hayes, but will continue to use Afflalo if the game situation calls for defense, and Hayes if it calls for offense.

Can't say I'm unhappy about the situation. When it happened, I was ok with the Hayes signing. I thought it was a no risk-all reward type situation. So far its turned out that way. This is worst case scenario with him, he gets upset that he's not getting his minutes and possibly doesn't come back next year if we tried to resign him.

OH NO JARVIS ISN'T HAPPY!!!

Who cares? Out of everyone on the bench, I care the least about Jarvis. Don't get me wrong, he's a good spark off the bench SOMETIMES, but he is a pretty one-dimensional player. I would rather roll with Valter anyway.

I care less about Dixon.....

:mccosky:
You don't become a professional athlete without having fierce pride.
It doesn't sound to me like Jarvis' pride is fierce. It sounds like his pride is fragile and needs special handling.

But let's remember that prides comes before the fall.

I care less about Dixon.....
I dont care for dixon, but he atleast is keeping his grill shut and is more trustworthy to score. Though him and jarvis are garbage on defense.

The only reason I care less about him is because he's not dressed. If they dressed him and not Jarvis, I'd care less about Jarvis.

I haven't been happy with Jarvis's defense all year. I guess that makes us even.

I dont care for dixon, but he atleast is keeping his grill shut and is more trustworthy to score. Though him and jarvis are garbage on defense.

I'd rather Dixon played than Lindsey.

dixon runs the offense just as badly at pg. atleast we get defene with hunter. and so far its been defense thats decided games in the east. Also why affalo got time over Jarvis.

The timing is annoying to me because I don't think that he doubted that we'd be able to beat Philly. Since that's the case and we're moving on to a team with a much taller rotation of wing players, he should have just STFU until he found out whether or not he'd get a decent amount of run against the Magic. Either way though, I'm with MoTown, not just because he owns, but because along with the offensive presence that Walter brings to the team, he is a pretty damn pesky defender.

Hayes whining to the media didn't help his long-term prospects. He had his best year as a player with us, and he's likely going to get a reasonable deal with someone somewhere, so why be even a little pissy in public? I doubt a good or bad playoff run will change his prospects significantly.

Hayes isn't totally horrible defensively, but he's not up to defending a star wing player any more than MoEvans, and we needed to keep Iggy's nuts in a jar. I'm glad Flip figured at least THAT much out. Now if only Flip could figure out that Herrmann would make a good "big SF" backup...

Hayes is without a doubt horrible defensively. He hasn't been able to stay in front of anybody all season.

dixon runs the offense just as badly at pg. atleast we get defene with hunter. and so far its been defense thats decided games in the east. Also why affalo got time over Jarvis.


Dixon's not that bad of a defender dude. He presses just like Lindsey does and has twice the offensive game as Lindsey.

Next year, I would resign Dixon and give him Lindsey's spot.

Fuck Jarvis.

Hayes is without a doubt horrible defensively. He hasn't been able to stay in front of anybody all season.


He did good Vs. Morris Peterson. I remember that. But thats not saying much.

Is it possible to cut whining bitches during the playoffs? hell, even Darko and Delfino were smart enough to shut the hell up in the postseason.
I don't want this weak little bitch on the roster another day.
If he can't even handle the adversity of losing minutes to Aaron Affalo, the fuck is he going to do in critical playoff games?
Fuck that shit, good riddance


(Paid for by the campaign to re-elect Valter)

Actually, Delfino whined like a bitch during the 05 playoffs.

Regardless of that, Joe is probably going to throw the full MLE at Randolph Childress over the summer. If not, he'll try to draft a backup SF or convert Afflalo.

Regardless, fuck Jarvis.

Dixon's not that bad of a defender dude. He presses just like Lindsey does and has twice the offensive game as Lindsey.

Next year, I would resign Dixon and give him Lindsey's spot.

Fuck Jarvis.

Dixon's not that bad of a defender dude. He presses just like Lindsey does and has twice the offensive game as Lindsey.
You my friend are crazy if you truly believe that about his defense. Everytime I've seen on defense minus maybe 2 games, his man has scored on him with thorough ease. Dude isnt strong enough to stop any guards first step and doesnt bother even most pg's shot. Comparing him to Hunter on defense is a worse joke than comparing hunter to him on offense.



Next year, I would resign Dixon and give him Lindsey's spot.
Hunter will be gone by default, and Dixon will too hopefully. I want players who hold up on defense and offense(i.e. Walter Hermannator). Dixon and Hunter both do not. No way do i like keeping either one dimensional guy if we can find or draft better.


Fuck Jarvis.
We agree there. But for the record I said this from the jump. Make guys earn their time(like we do affalo), and they will respect their chances rather than think they are afforded by right to them.

Regardless of that, Joe is probably going to throw the full MLE at Randolph Childress over the summer. If not, he'll try to draft a backup SF or convert Afflalo.

Regardless, fuck Jarvis.
I doubt we can nab Randolph with MLE. He may play on a suck ass team, but his numbers are still ass kicking. Childress? Maybe, definitely being bred in a damn good environment with Mike Woodson. Definitely have more options at SF than we had last year. Even a legit Stay put option in Herrmann. Though I'm sure some dispute that.

I also agree about Dixon. His defense isn't terrible at all.

I doubt we can nab Randolph with MLE. He may play on a suck ass team, but his numbers are still ass kicking. Childress? Maybe, definitely being bred in a damn good environment with Mike Woodson. Definitely have more options at SF than we had last year. Even a legit Stay put option in Herrmann. Though I'm sure some dispute that.

His numbers are ass kicking, but he remains a pure athlete that can't shoot. He's a role player that wouldn't start on %75 of the teams in the NBA.

He isn't getting more than the MLE from anyone, at least not until he proves he can score on something other than a dunk.

The Hawks aren't going to pay him either, not with so much money already tied up in Bibby and Johnson, and all the money they know they will have to commit to smith this summer and horford in the future.

Marvin Williams can do most of what childress does, and he has a much better offensive game.

re-signing Josh Smith will probably put Atlanta right near luxury tax next year. I doubt they will go over it to re-sign their 4th swingman.

Regardless of that, Joe is probably going to throw the full MLE at Randolph Childress over the summer.I doubt we can nab Randolph with MLE. He may play on a suck ass team, but his numbers are still ass kicking.
Randolph Childress is a 36 year old ex-Piston who last played in Australia several years ago. I think he'd die of a fucking heart attack if we offered him the MLE.

JOSH Childress, on the other hand... :)

I agree, fuck Jarvis and his no-defense playing ass. I am not a fan of him even when he's on a hot streak, because its fool's gold. The moment it comes down, all of a sudden you have to play him when he sucks for him to regain his hot streak later. Get the F out Mo Evans part 2!

I wouldn't mind Childress taking the spot or even Hermann staying onboard. I dont care about Jarvis though.

His numbers are ass kicking, but he remains a pure athlete that can't shoot. He's a role player that wouldn't start on %75 of the teams in the NBA.
A 17/10 guy not starting on 75 percent of the teams in this league. Extreme statement by far. That's also in 32 minutes a game. In comparison Duncan is a 19/11 guy with 6 more minutes of play each game.

17/10? What the hell?

He averages 12 and 5, and his assist numbers sucked.

17/10? What the hell?

He averages 12 and 5, and his assist numbers sucked.
I thought you meant zach randolph. thus the tim duncan comparison. Blah....:emo kid: [smilie=heatsmiley2:

my fault for messing up the full name to begin with.

To get this thread back on topic. Hayes is an idiot to open his mouth.

LOL! I WAS SO CONFUSED.

I'm going to name my first child Randolf in honor of this thread.

Hayes is without a doubt horrible defensively. He hasn't been able to stay in front of anybody all season.
Jarvis did just fine against the likes of Pat Garrity and J.J. Redick in limited minutes. He's perfectly competent at a "backup SF" level. He's kinda like MoEvans, only this time Flip is playing him appropriately instead of pretending he's a PF. Every Eastern playoff team has a high-mpg star SF that Jarvis is unlikely to match up very well against -- Hedo, LeBron, probably Pierce.

Jarvis did just fine against the likes of Pat Garrity and J.J. Redick in limited minutes.
In other words guys who dont play? Because those guys arent even in the legit playoff rotation. Says alot about Hayes.

Lots of teams don't have stud SFs who goes to town on marginal defenders. At this point, they're all in the West, I bet that Jarvis would be semi-decent for a few minutes against, say, Peja or AK47 if Tayshaun needed a breather.

Jarvis did a decent job of keeping Tayshaun's minutes limited during the regular season and had some decent shooting streaks. Though I'd rather see Herrmann and Afflalo tag-team behind Tayshaun depending on the matchup, I won't throw Jarvis totally under a bus. He just needs to not say words during the playoffs, and he'll get part of someone's MLE.

Though I'd rather see Herrmann and Afflalo tag-team behind Tayshaun depending on the matchup

You got yer wish during game 2. Jarvis saw NO court time. Can't say I missed him much.

Personally, I'd love to see Valter playing the 3 backing up Tayshaun, if he can develop some toughness. A bigger SF who can't be knocked aside so easily would be a great person to occasionally swap out for Tay when he's getting run over. I think Herrmann's got the skills to do it, but he's got to butch up.

And stop taking his clothes off when he dunks.

What, is he Steve Nash now?