WTFDetroit.com

View Full Version : Guillen and Cabrera swapping positions...



Timone
04-23-2008, 11:41 AM
It seemed the Tigers biggest infield surprise of the night had come from Ramon Santiago. He started at second base and hit his first homer in five years to finish off the Tigers’ three-homer third inning in their 10-2 win over Texas.


Then, after the game, manager Jim Leyland unveiled a bigger infield surprise.


He announced that Miguel Cabrera and Carlos Guillen are swapping positions.


Effective immediately, Cabrera is the first baseman and Guillen is the third baseman.


Guillen has started 96 games at third base in the majors, but Cabrera had never played first base in the majors or minors before this season. He has appeared there in seven games this season, three of them starts.


Leyland had little to say about the switch. He didn’t give a timetable for a minimum of how long it might last. But he spoke about it with an air of permanence.


Leyland didn’t hint whether it was the defensive play of Cabrera or of Guillen - or of both - that prompted the change. Perhaps he wanted to avoid giving the impression that he thinks Cabrera can’t play third base. With Cabrera under contract through 2015, there may come a day when the Tigers again need him at third base.


“We think we’re making a move that makes our ballclub better at this time,” Leyland said. “When you see things as a staff and as a manager and as a general manager and you see things that believe are the right thing to make your club better, you make the move.


“Both players were talked to, and both players were very quick to say, ‘Whatever makes us the best team, do whatever you want.
’ ”

Cabrera was a full-time third baseman throughout the two previous seasons with Florida. But he has looked better at first this season than at third (where he has made five errors).


Guillen played shortstop for his first four Tigers seasons. Leyland announced at the end of last season that Guillen would move to first base this season. The club acquired Edgar Renteria in the off-season to play short.


Guillen’s last regular-season action at third base came with Seattle in 2003. He started 32 games there that season. His other action at third in the majors came in 2000, when he started 64 games there for Seattle.

source: the internet

Zekyl
04-23-2008, 11:43 AM
Very nice. I like the added bold text.

MoTown
04-23-2008, 11:48 AM
I was hoping this would happen. Let's just hope Guillen doesn't make too many throwing errors. Not that he would be much worse than Cabrera has been...

WTFchris
04-23-2008, 11:54 AM
Has Cabrera been that bad? Guillen had a bad arm at SS last year, I can't imagine this would be any better. A lot of it had to do with the health of his lower body, wouldn't 3B put a lot of pressure on it with the faster reaction times and closer distance to the plate?

MoTown
04-23-2008, 12:35 PM
Cabrera has messed up on some plays that he should have made, and he's made some inaccurate throws. Guillen has better range and Cabrera has looked better at first.

Glenn
04-23-2008, 12:42 PM
Not so sure about this.

Now they both are learning new positions.

MoTown
04-23-2008, 12:44 PM
3B is very similar to SS, so I don't think the learning curve will be all that difficult. Cabrera has already been doing well at 1st, so that shouldn't be too big of a change.

Zekyl
04-23-2008, 01:08 PM
Guillen has played 3rd before. Not much, but he knows the position.

WTFchris
04-23-2008, 01:14 PM
Well, as long as Guillen doesn't break down like last year from time to time I'm cool with it.

DrRay11
04-23-2008, 01:22 PM
This is probably better than it was previously, but most of you hinted at, I also am still not comfortable with it. Cabrera looks solid (better than Guillen) at first base but I am somewhat worried by Guillen's arm over at third.

Glenn
04-23-2008, 01:35 PM
Seems like something that should have been solved in spring training.

At least tested.

WTFchris
04-23-2008, 01:38 PM
Seems like something that should have been solved in spring training.

At least tested.
It probably would have been an insult to Cabrera to assume he sucks at 3B without him actually playing that position here. Especially since they were working on an extension.

It also would have pissed Inge off, and also decreased his value for a trade (because you are saying Guillen might be your best 3B).

WTFchris
04-23-2008, 01:45 PM
Good point about it helping with Renteria's range:


Bertram (Detroit): Steve, what do you think of the Tigers swapping Cabrera and Guillen?

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif Steve Phillips: It's an interesting move that will have a marginal defensive upgrade. When things are going wrong, managers have to try something to get them back on track, and we know Jim Leyland is a trier. Renteria's range at SS plays into this, as his range is limited. Having Guillen on that side will be a benefit on balls hit between short and third. Unless Cabrera and Guillen can pitch, it won't solve the Tigers' issues, but it will get things going.

WTFchris
04-23-2008, 01:49 PM
The fantasy spin:


Tom (Detroit): Thoughts on the Guillen/Cabrera switcheroo 1B/3B? I think its a boost for Guillen. Does Inge get some time at 3B when Granderson is back?

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/sn2.gif Tristan H. Cockcroft: Well, first of all, I think what we saw on Tuesday, with Miggy at DH, Guillen at first and Inge at third, we might see a lot more than you think. Frankly, it's their best defensive arrangement. There's no question at all about that. But beyond that, I do think it makes Guillen more appealing, as a possible first-third-short guy, though the injury risk increases. If I have it my way, I want Guillen playing half his time at third, at best. Rotate the guys between the spots otherwise. Biggest impact of the shift, though: Cabrera owners in keeper leagues are going to be VERY disappointed this didn't happen on, say, May 1. He's six games away from the 20-game position requirement at third in most leagues.

H1Man
04-23-2008, 06:40 PM
Guillen will be better than Cabrera at 3rd and Cabrera will be better than Guillen at 1st. A win-win situation for the Tigers.

Tahoe
04-23-2008, 07:15 PM
CG with an error at 1st. The guy doesn't understand the position.

Glenn
04-23-2008, 07:20 PM
CG with an error at 1st. The guy doesn't understand the weird glove.

Glenn
04-25-2008, 12:56 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8062000/Flip-flopping-Cabrera%27s-position-is-problematic?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49


Flip-flopping Cabrera's position is problematic

by Ken Rosenthal

The Tigers are making the right call by moving Miguel Cabrera to first base and Carlos Guillen to third. The changes improve their infield defense, giving them a better chance to recover from their 2-10 start.

That's the narrow view, anyway.

The broader perspective is more troubling.

The Tigers committed $152.3 million to Cabrera through 2015 before discovering that he couldn't play third.

They committed $29 million to Dontrelle Willis through 2010 before determining whether he could succeed in the American League.

Now they're infuriating their best defensive third baseman, Brandon Inge — who is under contract though 2010 — by again layering over him at third.

Inge, who reluctantly accepted a utility role after the Tigers acquired Cabrera, is livid that he remains blocked at third even though Cabrera is moving to another position, major-league sources say.

A series of early season injuries created frequent opportunities for Inge, but the imminent returns of center fielder Curtis Granderson and designated hitter Gary Sheffield are expected to reduce Inge's playing time dramatically.

The Tigers' problem is that they can not clear third for Inge unless they keep Guillen at first and move Cabrera to left field — an impractical solution, according to general manager David Dombrowski.

"(Cabrera) doesn't run very well," Dombrowski says. "Our ballpark is really big in left field. If you put a heavy-legged left fielder in our ballpark, it's going to catch up to you."

Thus, first base makes the most sense for Cabrera, who committed five errors and showed limited range in his first 14 games at third with the Tigers.

His offensive value is just as high at first as it is at third. But if Cabrera can not handle third at age 25, then how long will he even last at first — a position he had not played until this season — before he needs to be a full-time DH?

The Tigers, who have Gary Sheffield, Magglio Ordonez and Guillen ahead of Cabrera in their eventual DH pecking order, profess to be unconcerned.

They initially considered using Cabrera at first and Guillen at third after they acquired Cabrera from the Marlins in December. But the momentum for the switch only started to build after Guillen sat out with a right hamstring strain on April 12. Manager Jim Leyland gave Cabrera his first career start at first base, in part because Cabrera was suffering from a sore left quadriceps.

"We are not moving Cabrera," Leyland said then.

Well, injuries are the mother of necessity, necessity is the mother of invention and Cabrera looked much better at first than he did at third.

This move isn't about Guillen, who was adequate at first and started 96 games at third for the Mariners in 2000 and '03.

Nor is it about shortstop Edgar Renteria, whose range to his right is below-average, increasing the need for a mobile third baseman.

It's about Cabrera.

"You can see that he's a tremendous player, but he's still young — he has a lot of exuberance, a lot of vim," Dombrowski says. "Once in a while at third base, maybe his concentration wanes a bit. But at first base, it appeared that didn't happen at all. It can't — you're involved all the time."

The difficulty of playing first base is consistently underestimated, but Cabrera has a good arm and good hands. He once was a shortstop, and began his major-league career as a left fielder with the Marlins in '03.

Perhaps Cabrera will follow the example of the Cardinals' Albert Pujols, who moved to first base full-time in 2004 due to his elbow condition, only to evolve from a below-average defender into a Gold Glove winner through hard work and determination.

Then again, when Cabrera trimmed down for his first spring training with the Tigers, he seemed committed to improving his defense at third; his biggest problem last season was that he was overweight, limiting his ability to field slow rollers.

Turns out he was not much better than before.

He's only 25. And he's already restricted to first base.

Hermy
04-25-2008, 01:19 PM
Oh no, our utility OF is sad. Remember that time Luis Salazar got all pissed off? No? Know why? No one cares. This is like Lindey Hunter getting angry cause he can't get minutes at shooting guard.

WTFchris
04-25-2008, 01:31 PM
While I don't care that our utlity player is mad, he does make a good point. We have too many 1B/DH's on this team (or people who should be). Eventually Guillen will break down there. Sheff can't stay healthy in the field. Renteria isn't a great SS. We have no good 3B, SS or C prospects anywhere that I know of. These guys aren't going to retire tomorrow, but what are we going to do in a couple years?

MoTown
04-25-2008, 02:04 PM
I think people are making WAY too big of a deal out of this. Guillen will be fine at third and Cabrera will be fine at first. Sheffield has, what, one year left after this? Isn't he 39? Mags has been fine in right, and by the time Guillen breaks down he can take the DH spot. By that time, we can either A) look for a third baseman via free agency or B) find a good SS/3B in our minor league system.

This would be a problem if it were all breaking down this year. But I don't see it being a problem for at least 2 more years. I have faith that DD knows how to fix something and the Tigers will be fine when that problem arrives.

Tahoe
04-25-2008, 02:06 PM
I heard the Grilled Cheese plays a mean 3rd base.

Zekyl
04-25-2008, 02:52 PM
I thought one of our top remaining prospects was a SS prospect or something like that..... Man, I am not on top of things like I used to be. Having a job that actually restricts the amount of "surf the net" time is killing my sports focus.

Glenn
04-25-2008, 03:09 PM
Iorg.