It's not looking good at all.

So bad that starters will leave with leads that aren't save situations but become save situations a minimum of 30 times this year.

Jones - horrible
Rodney - injured
Zumaya - injured
Tata - injured
Grilli - Grilli
Cruceta - visa problems
McBride - fat
Miner - who is this guy?

Without Zumaya and Rodney throwing well, it's very bad. We'll have to be ahead by 4-5 runs most nights without those two. At the very least, our starters better go 7 innings or we're screwed.

Thank goodness for Bobby Seay and Tim Byrdak.

If Yorman Bazardo is a possibility for the pen, I just hope they don't let him face Grady Sizemore. Sizemore took Yorm deep twice today. Continuing the theme of Sizemore homers, our own Sizemore went deep in the other game. By the way, Willis a little wild today. 4 walks in 2.1 innings. He also allowed two hits but struck 3 out before being pulled in favor of the above mentioned Grilli.

Aquilino Lopez has had a good spring. He's my sleeper for getting some saves this year.

What do you know about Dolsi, Vinny? http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=451767

I see that he's got 3 saves already and a high K/9 (small sample size, I know).

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=all&statType=2&timeFrame=1&Submit=Submit&c_id=det&subScope=pos&sitSplit=&venueID=&baseballScope=DET&timeSubFrame=23&&sortByStat=SV

I haven't heard much about him but he was 24 still at class a last year which generally doesn't bode well. Spring training saves are pretty meaningless, the hitters still out there in the ninth aren't the best.

Here's to hoping we trade Inge for some solid bullpen help *crosses fingers*

As much as I don't want to get rid of him, we've got to get bullpen help somewhere, and he's our only valuable asset that we're willing to trade right now.

So this thread means that the pen will be stellar and our starters and offense will get off to a slow start.

At least thats the way it works for me.

What are the chances that Porcello gets a little time in the Bigs mid-season? I don't pay attention to the farm system, so my knowledge goes off what you guys tell me.

Very, very slim.

Doing poorly?

No, not at all. But check out Andrew Miller last year. He was doing great until teams figured out what pitches he had not yet developed. Porcello already has a more complete arsenal than Miller in terms of variety, but why rush him? The team will be great this year. Might as well let Porcello test a few things out and gain some professional level confidence to go along with it.
At least give him one year to burn through the minors. The one things I would say is that it would be a mistake to stuff him in Lakeland for a season. At least let him give it a rip in Erie after a couple months.

Also, Porcello is 4 [edit - I think it was actually 3 years, I forgot Miller only had 3 years at UNC. Point stays the same though I think.] years younger than Andrew Miller was at the same point. Huge, huge difference.

A pitcher coming straight out of high school is just plain not ready, no matter how hard he throws or how good his stuff is. They need to spend a couple years building up their stamina and their innings counts to get themselves ready for the stress and strain of a major league season.

Remember, a High school baseball season is very short, Porcello only pitched 56 innings his Senior year last year. By the time he's up to the bigs for good, he's going to be expected to be able to handle 170-180 innings and 200+ innings by the time he hits his prime. There's pretty strong evidence that rushing up a player's inning total too fast leads to dramatic arm troubles a very high percentage of the time. No sense risking it.

Why not let him just pitch a few of his limited innings at the big leagues, you say, just to get a taste? The specifics of baseball's CBA make this difficult and unlikely. It's difficult to explain but basically, bringing him up for a taste before he's ready to stay and be effective would both lead to him getting more expensive quicker and potentially hinder the club's ability to send him down to the minors for more seasoning if he proves not ready.

For comparison, another great high school pitcher who Porcello is often compared to was Josh Beckett. Josh was old for his class and was 7 months older than Porcello at the equivelant point in their careers. Beckett didn't get his first cup of coffee 'till the end of his second full season out of High School and didn't come up for good 'till the middle of the third season. And this was (and still is) considered the "fast track" for a high schooler. Many still argue that his being rushed like this really hurt the early part of his career (he missed time with assorted ailments). He only finally pitched his first 200 inning season in 2006 with Boston.

Come on guys let's wait until the season starts, just two years ago, we had the best pitching ERA in the entire league, and last year we were devestated by injuries, so to say our bullpen is horrible is a bit premature.

I expect to get small contributions from unlikely sources like we have in the past couple seasons out of our pen. Guys such as Yorman Bazardo for instance, could really play a key role in long relief.

Plus, I'd have to think, that if it comes down to us needing a solid releif pitcher or two to solidify us as a legit WS contender, than I have 100% faith that Dave Dombrowski will address that need as soon as it becomes a major problem. Given how much he has spent and put into constructing this current roster, it would be pure negligence for him to stand pat if something like that needs tinkering, especially since he took a risk by not adding a relief pitcher over the offseason.

We won 88 games last year with a lousy pen, I'd have to think that having a healthy rotation, and a dominant lineup would at least push that total to 90+

I would have liked to see them take a shot on Armando Benitez, who signed a minor league deal with Toronto today.

Cubs notes
Closer Shingo Takatsu was given his unconditional release.

Worth a look?

Two things.

First - excellent explanation, Vinny.

Second - yes Wil, 90+ is a lock on paper. But the game isn't played on paper and you never know if 90+ wins will get you to the postseason or not. That may not beat the Indians in the division, and with the Red Sox and Yankees in the same division, it may not win the wild card either.

RODNEY COULD MISS START OF SEASON

(9:42 a.m. ET)

Tigers reliever Fernando Rodney might not be ready for Opening Day as he slowly works his way back from shoulder tendinitis. But he's not going to rush back just to be on the roster when the season starts.

"I want to get ready, even if I have to miss Opening Day," he said Tuesday, according to the Detroit Free Press.

Rodney said Tuesday that he isn't worried about his right shoulder, which has kept him from pitching in spring training games but is not causing him pain when he plays catch.

"I don't know how many innings I have to throw to get ready," he said, according to the Free Press. "I might need to pitch in five or six [exhibition] games."

That would leave the Tigers' Opening Day bullpen without Rodney and Joel Zumaya, who's still three months away from returning from shoulder surgery.

The whole Zumaya thing makes me quite sad. :(

The whole Zumaya thing makes me quite sad. :(

[smilie=guitarist.g:

Rodney throws bullpen
Fernando Rodney threw his mound session as scheduled this morning. Threw fastballs and changeups for about 10 minutes and appeared fine. He's in the OF shagging fly balls in BP now, so there are no obvious problems.

Wow, he threw the whole bullpen? He must be stronger than ever!

Wow, he threw the whole bullpen? He must be stronger than ever!

wow

Wow, he threw the whole bullpen? He must be stronger than ever!

No wonder that dipshit is never right when you pull crap like that.

My mistake. I forgot the green text.

I meant F rod BTW (the dipshit).

Here's a crazy thought.

What if we go out and grab an above average to average starting pitcher if one were to become available (Jason Marquis, Matt Morris, etc.) and convert Nate to our closer?

If you recall last year, his numbers were dramatically better the first time through the opponent's lineup, and we wouldn't have to worry about that "dead arm" of his that he seems to get every year when he hits 150 innings.

Just thinking out loud here.

So you're saying we should Smoltz him? Works for me.

He certainly has the temperment/intensity.

It'd be worth a shot. If it doesn't work then he fights with whatever pitcher we signed for his starting spot and the loser becomes long relief

You know who else was intense? Kyle Farnsworth. Who did we trade him for again?

Wasn't it that Miner fella?

In all honesty, I'd like to get Farnsworth back. He was solid for us.

Anyone know much about this Denny Bautista guy? He's been very impressive all spring, and Mario and Rod say he's pitched his way into the roster.

Fastball around 96-97.

The name sounds extremely familiar but I don't know much about him at all.

How about the Tigs giving up 9 runs (at least, I was watching while I ate lunch and didn't see the whole game) today.

I'm not going to use a friggin' Spring Training (which is GAY GAY GAY) game to add fuel to the fire.

I think 6 of them went to Byrdak. He was awful.

Went to Byrdak? Fluke.

We all know that Tim(beau0805) Byrdak is the TRUTH.

Timbeau Owns.

Tims have to stick together!

Well, Byrdak is officially gone. Released by the team this morning.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/SPORTS0104/803260418/1361

Hm... interesting.

So who does that leave us with? What's our bullpen look like with him out of the picture?

So who does that leave us with? What's our bullpen look like with him out of the picture?

http://seastead.org/commented/paper/images/gas_can.med.jpg

So we should keep the lid on our bullpen and avoid anything that could cause a spark. Got it.

Anyone else find it interesting that the Free Press published an article saying that Byrdak's position in the pen this year seemed safe on the same day he was cut? That's just bad timing.

Wow, I knew the pen was bad, but I never knew it would be this bad. Apparently Todd Jones sucks so bad and is so old that they decided to go with another old former Tiger closer. Check it out in Lynn Henning's article -

Tigers blast Phillies, 14-5
Lynn Henning The Detroit News

LAKELAND, Fla. -- The Tigers only hope they begin their regular season the way they ended their Florida warm-up.

They socked 18 hits, a slew of them for extra bases, in pummeling the Philadelphia Phillies, 14-5, at Marchant Stadium in the final Grapefruit League game of the season.

On a gorgeous day in central Florida, and with a FSN Detroit audience taking it in, the Tigers got home runs from Placido Polanco and rookie outfielder Clete Thomas, who did nothing to hurt his chances at making the club as a final position player on manager Jim Leyland's roster.

Pudge Rodriguez hit a pair of doubles, and Brandon Inge drove in three runs with a double and an infield single.

The Tigers got seven runs in the eighth inning, two coming on Thomas' first home run of the spring, and two more scoring on Mike Henneman's double.

Leyland, who said before Thursday's game that his team was "ready" for Monday's opener against Kansas City at Comerica Park, got pleasing performances from most of the Tigers pitchers, headed by starter Kenny Rogers, who pitched four innings, three of them perfect 1-2-3 frames.

Rogers allowed three hits and two runs in the second, but had excellent control and command.

The Tigers played before a final-game audience of 8,830 at Marchant Stadium, which set a single-season attendance record at Marchant Stadium of 126,124. It broke last year's record of 122,074.

Thinking he meant Mike Hessman? Not that I would mind bring back Henneman, but probably to pitch rather that hit a 2 run double.

No, I'm sure he hit the double:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/mike_henneman_autograph.jpg

Good old buttchin Dudley Doright motherfucker

The Reds are apparently getting ready to cut Mike Stanton, I hope DD doesn't show interest.

FEAR NO MORE


Tigers sign LHP Aaron Fultz

Sat Mar 29, 7:27 PM ET

DETROIT - Relief pitcher Aaron Fultz and the Detroit Tigers agreed to a minor league contract Saturday.

The 34-year-old left-hander will report to Triple-A Toledo. He was released Friday by the Cleveland Indians after compiling an 11.88 ERA in seven spring training appearances.

Fultz was 4-3 with a 2.92 ERA in 49 games for Cleveland in 2007. He is 25-15 with a 4.26 ERA in an eight-year career with the Phillies, Twins, Rangers, Giants and Indians.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080324/capt.58e060af45f1465caec4291b9be153a2.indians_lee_ spring_baseball_fltd102.jpg?x=180&y=258&q=85&sig=b7vPhr.V6oMCro.48nWU0w--

The Reds are apparently getting ready to cut Mike Stanton, I hope DD doesn't show interest.


I would take Mike Stanton over Aquilino Lopez.

also, Steve Kline got DFA'ed today by the Giants, he's got worlds of experience and at one point, not to long ago, he was probably one of the top lefty bullpen pitchers in the entire league...

perhaps he's somebody worth taking a flyer on should things get ugly...

Kline makes a good chunk of money, IIRC.

Does it matter? If he's designated for assignment, isn't that effectively a release if he declines to report? No reason why he would have minor league options.
And in 2004, he was very much the top middle relief guy in the majors, imo.

His consistency from year to year seems to be all over the place, but a career ERA of 3.51 would make him the best guy in our bullpen, right? I think the only other guys in the pen even close to that are Seay and Bazardo, but Kline has done it over several years.

By the way, Kline was in the 2nd year of a 2 yr, $3.5 million deal. That's not outrageous money.

The lefties aren't really our problem so much though. Seay and Fultz is fine probably.

Stanton's arm's supposedly pretty shot. Alot of these bullpen guys get abused for a few years and never completely recover.

Guys, just think of how perfect our team is going to be when Zumaya & Rodney are both back...

Rodney's due back within the month, and Zumaya is already throwing...he could be back by late May/early June...

A team with Todd Jones as it's closer cannot be perfect, by definition.

Somebody cue the "old bit" siren.

A team with Todd Jones as it's closer cannot be perfect, by definition.

Somebody cue the "old bit" siren.


You know Glenn, he only blew 6 saves last year.

Closers who blew as many/or more saves than Todd Jones

Chad Cordero
Joe Borowski
Brad Lidge
Trevor Hoffman
Francisco Cordero
Jose Valverde
Francisco Rodriguez
Bobby Jenks
David Weathers


from a statistical standpoint, given the closer role, he's actually middle of the road...

odds are if Zumaya or Rodney were the closer, and had as many save opportunites as Jones had last year, the blown saves numbers would be the same, if not worse...

ERA's can be deceiving, especially when you work so few innings...one bad outing can inflate your ERA for months if your a setup man or closer...

He wouldn't blow ANY, if it's perfect.

He allows too many hits/baserunners. Check his BAA from last year.

He doesn't strike anybody out, something a good closer needs to be able to do. (Allow fewer balls to be put into play, take pressure off the defense, etc)

ERA for closers doesn't mean much, if anything.

Yeah, I do wish he could get more K's...

I wonder if Zumaya hadn't gotten hurt, if Todd would even be on the team right now...

He was basically an emergency resigning you know? Kind of like when Ben left, Joe immediately signed Nazy...

The market wasn't there this summer, next year K-Rod will be a FA...perhaps we can throw some dough at him...

Wil, as much as I want to agree with you on the whole "when they get back" thing, there's nothing that proves they'll be great when they get back. Zumaya hasn't pitched in how long? And Rodney's always a risk when he hits the mound. Some days he dominates, others he just gets rocked.

And Zumaya's always a risk when he lifts something.

Fixed it.

Wil, as much as I want to agree with you on the whole "when they get back" thing, there's nothing that proves they'll be great when they get back.


I agree too, but on it's surface, one would believe (especially the tools at ESPN) that having both of those guys back, at whatever effectiveness, would make the Tigers a better team...


Zumaya hasn't pitched in how long?

Joel Zumaya pitched last on September 25th, so it's really not as far removed as one may think...

Zumaya at 75% is a better pitcher than Aquilino Lopez at 100%

I agree with Zekyl.

Rodney's problem tends to be with inherited runners. He seems to need to face a batter or two before he gets into a groove out there. If he's put in with runners already on base, he'll let them score.

Zumaya at 75% is a better pitcher than Aquilino Lopez at 100%

That's an absurd statement. Zumaya at 75% gets knocked all over the park. He needs his heat.

re: Kline

Check out those WHIPs and BAAs for the last three years.

No wonder the worst team in baseball didn't even want him anymore, looks like the dude's arm is shot.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5778/career;_ylt=AjTR8S6GUXoymbLNFLt0XCmFCLcF

So you're saying Millen will sign him?

Jones only did well when he had the two flame throwers pitching before him because he was a big change of pace coming in.

Jones isn't the worst closer in baseball, but he's not even middle of the road IMO. he might have only had 6 blown saves, but his stats were terrible. The only closers in the AL with a worse ERA played for Baltimore and Tampa (and Borowski who was terrible). And they both had better records and only 4 blown saves with shitty lineups. Jones' on base % was .331 last year. Of the top 36 RP in MLB, only Borowski was worse and his was .332. Most people think Borowski was a bad closer too. Again, aside from Borowski, his batting average was worse than every RP in the top 32 in saves.

Hay, we gave a bunch of $ to Troy Percival for doing nothing, why don't we see if he'd be willing to come bac...

What, he's the closer for Tampa?

Fuck.

How bad will Guillen's fielding be?

So this thread means that the pen will be stellar and our starters and offense will get off to a slow start.



Cough Cough

Call me crazy but the bullpen has been pretty solid lately. Especially if you take out that one guy who we got back in the Farnsworth deal.

Lopez has given up 1 run in 17.1ip, Rapada 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 BBs in 5.1. Bautista 1 Run in 9.1 innings. We really need a couple of those guys to surprise us with a big year.

I actually like our bullpen. Say what you will, but the problem is the starters. We either need to be looking for a starter to trade for, or Dontrelle or Nate need to come back strong.

I still say move Nate to the pen when Dontrelle is back. He would be a great 7th/8th inning set up guy for Jonesy. Keep Gallaraga starting.