I don't know that much about Sebelius, but she's got some Michigan ties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius

This is interesting:

Speculation on her Vice Presidential selection intensified when a report from political ad agency insider, Tribble Ad Agency, reported on its website that the Obama Campaign owns the domain name "ObamaSebelius.COM" through the GoDaddy.com registration service.

I can't see another female being picked. The Clinton voters would revolt and he'd be sunk.

Maybe. But he could be thinking that it might be the best way to get the female vote without all of the baggage.

But honestly, I think racism + sexism is a losing formula.

I know it seems crazy, but while everyone is waiting for Obama's pick, how smart would it be for McCain to jump in right now and announce his pick?

Of course, that assumes that he knows who he is going to pick.

He could steal all of this attention in a flash.

It would be a big show of confidence, IMO, "I don't care who the other guy chooses, I have the right choice for the job right here".

Not smart at all. It would quickly be old news with Obama's pick and the convention. He needs to announce it a day or two after the DNC to steal the thunder for a while.

I know that's what he plans to do, but in a campaign that seems so reactionary, it would be a huge change of pace.

Maybe not the best idea, but he's got a really bad news cycle staring him in the face after yesterday.

It may have been good a week ago, but not the day before Obama announces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Sebelius

This is interesting:

Speculation on her Vice Presidential selection intensified when a report from political ad agency insider, Tribble Ad Agency, reported on its website that the Obama Campaign owns the domain name "ObamaSebelius.COM" through the GoDaddy.com registration service.
The interesting part was that the domain was registered in January 2007.

Given Sebelius' relatively low profile nationally, someone's been thinking about that matchup (and some others) for a long time.

I'm just sooooo excited. I can't wait.

Biden it is.

Loser ticket for sure

Was there anyone he could have chosen that you wouldn't have said that about?

You guys never get my jokes. :(

My favorite Biden moment is when he had 15 mins (?) to ask questions of someone on a Senate panel and his question took 14 mins and 45 secs. LMAO

My favorite Biden moment is when he had 15 mins (?) to ask questions of someone on a Senate panel and his question took 14 mins and 45 secs. LMAO

Man, Michael Savage must have had that one ready for you fast.

An old white guy was probably a requirement.

If nothing else, the VP debates just got more interesting.

Man, Michael Savage must have had that one ready for you fast.

Don't do Savage. I just remember it. The guy loves to hear himself.

Biden it is.

Loser ticket for sure

Yeah, it's a terrible idea to add a guy with more foreign policy experience than McCain and 10 times the brain power. I like the move myself. McCain is going to be reduced to the same BS he's running now about taxes and drilling. His campaign is going to get really stale unless he finds something worthwhile to talk about and stops using his POW history as a crutch.

I've seen lots of POW's on the TV mad at McCain because he uses his stories to get out of answering hard questions and they feel he is belittling all the other POWs.

^ he doesn't talk about his POW experience that much, imo. I'm sure his handlers want talk about it more than he does. But to call it a crutch isn't cool, imo.

I'm OK with this. Biden's more of an attack-dog type of guy than Obama, maybe that's what he needs.

^ he doesn't talk about his POW experience that much

His campaign's response to the question about how many homes he has is that he had a "home" in a pow camp for five years. Crutch.

^ he doesn't talk about his POW experience that much, imo. I'm sure his handlers want talk about it more than he does. But to call it a crutch isn't cool, imo.

Well, when you have many officers on national TV complaining about it...I don't know. I personally didn't hear him using it.

I really think this pick is anticlimatic. I don't understand why he wouldn't have selected Hillary and get all her votes and support.

I really think this pick is anticlimatic. I don't understand why he wouldn't have selected Hillary and get all her votes and support.
People who otherwise wouldn't vote will crawl out of the woodwork to vote against Hillary, which outweighs the folks who voted for her. The "anyone but Hillary" crowd far outweighs the "if not Hillary, McCain or no one" crowd.

Pawlenty

I really think this pick is anticlimatic. I don't understand why he wouldn't have selected Hillary and get all her votes and support.

I think the conservatives would freak out, just like a Lieberman pick would do. I think it's Romney, but there has been some talk of the guy from Pennsylvania as well.

Pawlenty and Romney are both out, per MSNBC and Faux.

LOL@McCain if he picks this new female Gov. of Alaska, especially after hammering on the "experience" card. It would be such an obvious pandering job to the Hil supporters, and quite insulting to them, actually, IMO.

Obama's got 10x the experience of Palin, and he actually got 18m+ votes to earn his spot on the ticket.

McCain's getting a lot of credit for "playing with the media" this morning, but to me it's coming across as disjointed and irrational. Even the right wing talking heads are confused.

The heads are saying that it looks like it's Lieberman or Ridge.

I suppose it could still be a wildcard like Giulianni or Condi, too.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see him tab Petraeus, either.

Some might say that wouldn't be necessary since he most likely already has a large chunk of the military/vet vote, but it would really allow them to play the fear card (even more) during the home stretch.

Pawlenty and Romney are both out, per MSNBC and Faux.

LOL@McCain if he picks this new female Gov. of Alaska, especially after hammering on the "experience" card. It would be such an obvious pandering job to the Hil supporters, and quite insulting to them, actually, IMO.

Obama's got 10x the experience of Palin, and he actually got 18m+ votes to earn his spot on the ticket.

It would be ironic. Its like BO talking about change while ripping JM for being in DC for decades and then picks Biden for his mate.

Then to have JM do basically the same thing. It would be a terrible pick, imo. But the Reps didn't exactly nominate a great candidate either.

I just can't see Lieberman. I think it's Ridge.

Fox says it's Palin.

Fox is not confirming but reporting that its Palin.

The number 1 requirement is that you look presidential. She doesn't to me.

I'm looking forward to the what should you know about Palin thread (I know nothing).

The Dems are going to have to play this right.

If they come out LOLing too much, there could be a backlash.

They just have to make the case that this person, only a couple of years out from being a city councilperson from a podunk town in Alaska, isn't the ideal President in waiting.

The Obama campaign can't keep the media from crticizing this ad naseum, though, so even if they play it exactly right, they could still come across as bullies here.

Weird pick, IMO.

The VP debate is going to be very interesting.

I wish there were more than one of them.

But at least the experience on the ticket in on the President side with the Repubs.

Palin and BO have similar experience, JM has more than Biden but for the sake of argument, call it even and the Rep ticket is better equiped to run the country. End of story. :)

Nope.

Palin is being handed a spot on the ticket, Obama went out and earned it.

Obama laid the groundwork for his place in history back at the 2004 DNC, what has she done on the national stage to earn her spot?

The right will try to equate them as best as they can, but it's a very, very flawed argument.

Nope.

Palin is being handed a spot on the ticket, Obama went out and earned it.

Obama laid the groundwork for his place in history back at the 2004 DNC, what has she done on the national stage to earn her spot?

The right will try to equate them as best as they can, but it's a very, very flawed argument.

All VPs are handed a spot. BO earned his, agree. I'm not following the one has to earn the VP spot.

I guess shes under investigation for attempting to influence the state police to fire her sisters ex-hubby? Did I get that right?

You earn the Pres spot with votes, you earn the VP spot with body of work, IMO.

It seemed like you were trying to equate the two, and there is a clear distinction, IMO.

I guess shes under investigation for attempting to influence the state police to fire her sisters ex-hubby? Did I get that right?
Yup. And this is by the REPUBLICAN state legislature in Alaska, after she was running as the anti-corruption candidate. It's Kwame-esque.

She's also on record as of a month ago as saying;

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12969.html

“As for that V.P. talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?

Oh, and she was praising Obama earlier this month:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Palin_praisesObama.html?showall

Governor Palin also acknowledged the Senator’s proposal to offer $1,000 rebates to those struggling with the high cost of energy.

“We in Alaska feel that crunch and are taking steps to address it right here at home,” Governor Palin said. “This is a tool that must be on the table to buy us time until our long-term energy plans can be put into place. We have already enjoyed the support of Alaska Senator Ted Stevens, and it is gratifying to see Senator Obama get on board.”

And as far as she was concerned, as of a couple weeks ago, she wasn't vetted.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/27427-1.html

In an interview in her state office Thursday afternoon, Palin said the national party and staff behind the GOP convention recently asked for her position papers and speeches from her 2006 gubernatorial bid. Palin said, however, that she did not consider that request to be part of the vice presidential selection process.

“No, I wouldn’t consider that any kind of official vetting,” she said.

McCain's in the "Peeps that could be desperate" camp, here.

I saw some chick from Alaska on TV a couple months ago complaining about an inability to drill up there. Not sure if it was her or some senator/representative. Do you know?

Well, clearly this is an attempt to sway Hillary voters to him. The problem is that how can McCain play the experience card with Obama now?

I do give him credit for picking a maverick type instead of a hard line conservative. Risky though.

You earn the Pres spot with votes, you earn the VP spot with body of work, IMO.

It seemed like you were trying to equate the two, and there is a clear distinction, IMO.

Gotcha. I think that JM and the handlers feel her 'body of work' is that she is a 'maverick' and a life-long conservative.

But I must admit that too clever by half was a though I had.

I've never ran a campaign for Prez (you may have guessed) so I don't know everything that goes into these things. But whomever does it is a pay grade above mine, thats for sure.

So is she considered a Maverickess?

And lastly, this brings the Clinton machine back into play. She'll be back fighting for the Pumas. Not a good thing for Repubs

Tina Fey's gonna have Sarah Palin for a midnight snack on SNL.

^ I knew she looked like someone. I think thats it.

Faux News is reporting that her aprovals in AK are 80%. That doesn't happen much.

The VP debate is going to be very interesting.

I wish there were more than one of them.

It'll be awkward for Biden, I think, because he's a gloves-off kind of guy. A balancing act between respectful criticisms of her and sharp jabs at McCain.

McCain Taps Gov. Sarah Palin
As Presidential Running Mate

I like that MSNBC, for example, was saying that Biden will have her for lunch in the debates. Lower those expectations. Love it.

lol @ 302

It'll be awkward for Biden, I think, because he's a gloves-off kind of guy. A balancing act between respectful criticisms of her and sharp jabs at McCain.

Fuck that, call her a cunt.

I like that MSNBC, for example, was saying that Biden will have her for lunch in the debates. Lower those expectations. Love it.

All things being equal (like gender) I think there is little doubt that he would.

He's going to have to play this carefully.

He's got to dismantle her without looking like a bully.

It can be done, but there are landmines that need to be dodged, and Biden has hit some of those in the past.

BUT HE WAS NOT A P.O.W.

I'm surprised JM hasn't stepped on a landmine yet. He stepped in a cow pie with the homegate thing, but that wasn't that serious, imo.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1398/542389855_811a187e7b.jpg

^ not what I was expecting

I'd hit it. lol

Palin talking about Iraq to Time Magazine (audio only):
q7niokOXyjs

I think I've seen about 6 Debra Wasserman Shultz (sp?) interviews today, lol.

It's a good move to send the female delegation out as attack dogs instead of the men.

I think they need to hold Hillary back on this though, or she'll come off as looking bitter.

She's already put out a statement so that her supporters can see that she's totally against Palin and her positions, but she can't be out front this time.

It'll be sooooo interesting of political junkies to see what the numbers are on Nov 5th...the women vote that is.

RE: #219 & #220 in this thread

Biden was 3/1 odds, and Palin was 7/1

McCain only met Palin once before she was named his VP candidate?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12988.html

What judgement!

That's amazing.

I heard her referred to today by a right winger as "a modern day Elizabeth Dole".

Wow.

Its called delegating. I'm not saying the name of the vetter/picker person.

Word to peeps: THE PREZ OF THE US DOESN"T DO EVERYFRIGGIN THING IN THE WORLD

alsoiminagoodmoodrightnowandi'moftothegoodthingsth read

MSNBC's viewer poll (which is certainly not scientific) says that ~ 1/3 think that Palin will help McCain and ~ 2/3 think she'll hurt him.

I heard her labeled a Liberatarian cuz she was protecting gay rights or something.

Two things to get Tahoe fired up:

1. I heard a lib call her selection "irresponsible" in light of McCain's age and two bouts of cancer. That might be going a bit far, but as with most things, perception is reality. If peeps are frightened about her being Commander in Chief if McCain kicks it, it might bring a few more nonvoters out to the polls.

2. This is my opinion, and no one else's (as far as I have heard), but I think her decision to accept this might also be viewed as "irresponsible" by some, including me. Here you have a mother of 5, including a newborn that has developmental issues, that lives in Alaska. If they win, she is either going to have to uproot this family and move them halfway around the globe to Washington DC or leave them in Alaska and be apart from them. Two things: one, that, of course is her choice and she is totally free to do so, and two, I would say the exact same thing about a man in the same situation, so don't get the idea that this is a gender thing.

my first quick lil reply....I'm not saying either of those WON"T be considered by voters, cuz they will, but if that is the biggest concerns, I'll deal with them.

And it's interesting that someone whose apparent claim to fame is "ethics reform" is under investigation for her...ethics.

I can't say what happened, so I'm just going with not guilty until proven otherwise.

I would guess that IF there really was any there there, that the vetters would have NEVER picked her.

Also, she did really piss off some peeps up there with her reforming things. Who knows...

How many "pro family" evangelical Christians are admitted pot smokers?

Palin says she used to smoke the ganj, but "didn't like it".

lol

Get those skeletons out now Sarah.

It was legal or decriminalized in AK for quite a while.

This is a little over a year old:

yh-lW2opLyQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh-lW2opLyQ&feature=related

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/us/politics/29palin.html?_r=3&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

“She’s going to learn national security at the foot of the master for the next four years, and most doctors think that he’ll be around at least that long,” said Charlie Black, one of Mr. McCain’s top advisers, making light of concerns about Mr. McCain’s health, which Mr. McCain’s doctors reported as excellent in May.
Play up that lack of national security experience and make your candidate look old. Clever... devillishly clever.

I'd rather have the lack of national security experience by with the VP then the Prez candidate.

Also, get used to that line, cuz I'm thinking I'll be repeating it. :)

Let me know when McCain can tell apart Sunni from Shi'ite... Lieberman's gonna whisper in her ear, too? ;)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/08/30/2008-08-30_sarah_palins_motherinlaw_uncertain_about.html

"I'm not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she's a woman and a conservative. Well, she's a better speaker than McCain," Faye Palin said with a laugh.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2008/09/08/080908ta_talk_gourevitch

on McCain’s signature issue—the prosecution of the war in Iraq—she did not sound so gung-ho. Her son is a soldier, and she said, “I’m a mom, and my son is going to get deployed in September, and we better have a real clear plan for this war. And it better not have to do with oil and dependence on foreign energy.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/02/mccain-implies-iraq-war-was-about-oil/

My friends, I will have an energy policy that we will be talking about, which will eliminate our dependence on oil from the Middle East that will — that will then prevent us — that will prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middle East.

"My friends, I will have an energy policy that we will be talking about, which will eliminate our dependence on oil from the Middle East that will — that will then prevent us — that will prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middle East."

wow.

Let me know when McCain can tell apart Sunni from Shi'ite... Lieberman's gonna whisper in her ear, too? ;)

And when Biden knows the difference between a brigade and a battalion.

djou hear about that one?

Consensus from the conservative insiders seems to be "oh god oh god oh god is it too late to undo this?" What a colossal mistake.

EDIT: Wasn't Kay Bailey Hutchinson available? I mean, she's a ditz but she's got 1000x more experience.

And when Biden knows the difference between a brigade and a battalion.

djou hear about that one?
Actually, I didn't, because I read his speech instead of listened to it. It turns out he botched what he was reading, not the prepared remarks.

If you want classic Biden gaffes, today is "I won't talk about politics" day, followed by an hour's worth of politics.

But, given Hurricane Palin, I bet that doesn't get a lot of attention.

Palin received more votes running for mayor of a small town than Biden did running for Prez.

Now thats pretty funny...hopefully even for y'all. I don't think thats funny to me cuz of my political leanings.

My friends, I will have an energy policy that we will be talking about, which will eliminate our dependence on oil from the Middle East that will — that will then prevent us — that will prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middle East.
Wait, what? I thought we were there to bring freedom and stop terror. I'm shattered.

palin is essentially a female huckabee. her selection validates everything that i've said about the modern republican party.

she is anti-science:
doesn't believe that man has contributed to global warming
wants to teach creationism
anti-stem cell research
she apparently decided to fly 8 hours back to alaska AFTER her contractions started for her most recent child. in fact, she didn't get to a hospital until 22 hours after her contractions started. this seems almost impossible to me, but at the very least no sane doctor would recommend for her not to give birth in texas.

she is anti-abortion even for rape/incest. if you get raped by a stranger, then tough luck for you. that baby will be growing inside and reminding you of the ordeal for 9 months.

she has no apparent interest, let alone experience in foreign policy. at the outset of the surge she was mostly incoherent but said she didn't really follow the iraq war. she did support rice, but thought there should be an exit plan. even if obama has not been around as long as some, he has had a serious, documented interest in foreign policy dating back at least to 2002.

Palin received more votes running for mayor of a small town than Biden did running for Prez.

Now thats pretty funny...hopefully even for y'all. I don't think thats funny to me cuz of my political leanings.

well, i'm sure that biden got more votes in his last senatorial election than palin had over her career. so i'm not sure what you think is so funny. why don't you explain?

I'd rather have the lack of national security experience by with the VP then the Prez candidate.

Also, get used to that line, cuz I'm thinking I'll be repeating it. :)

do you like crackers as much as other parrots?

The question in many minds is not so much experience, but rather no one knows anything about palin's foreign policy opinions if she even has any. most of her statements have been non-commital at best and uninformed at worst. despite his lack of experience obama was convincingly right about what would happen if we invaded iraq while mccain, bush and the rest of the neocons lived in some pollyanna world.

in addition, obama been ahead of the curve of many bush changes in policy:
1. the need to engage iran and n. korea diplomatically
2. the need to increase troop levels in afghanistan
3. the fact that bolton should NOT be ambassador to the UN

obama has also been at the forefront of the effort to secure loose nukes in the senate. given the rand corp.'s finding that law enforcement is much more important in combating terrorism than military efforts, this loose nuke effort may very well become the "new central front in the war on terror".

mccain's assessment of the impact of a surge was better than obama's, though his remarks were actually very qualified at the time and he seemed to think that we weren't sending enough troops to get much done. in addition, he exagerates the impact of the surge. no one knows what would happen if we stopped paying off the sunnis in anbar province. even patreus has said that he doesn't know for sure that substantial improvements would not have occurred even if the surge hadn't happened.

Thus, for someone with no experience, obama sure seems to be right much more often than mccain. let me know when palin has been shown to have more insight about foreign policy than either biden or obama. even one example would be great. it might not be on limbaugh or hannity so you may need to try independent thought.

Palin received more votes running for mayor of a small town than Biden did running for Prez.
Are you sure about that?

She won her mayoral election with under 700 votes, won re-election with under 900 votes.

Biden got ~18000 votes in California alone a month after he withdrew, and ~80000 votes total.

BTW, ~80000 votes in the primaries is more than who voted for Palin in the Republican primary for governor of Alaska.

Pat Buchanan before the Palin announcement, vs. Pat Buchanan after the Palin announcement. Who's going to win? The pragmatic analyst Pat Buchanan, or the Talking Points Douchebag Pat Buchanan?

WZU9GGBI2jM

Pat swings, and connects! Pat goes down! The winner: Pat!

Also, it just seems crazy that either a mother or father would want to run for vp with a 4-month old son with down's syndrome and a pregnant, engaged teenager. If her family just had to deal with one of those two things, i could understand but both??? I wouldn't expect her to quit a current job, but why subject your family to the media scrutiny and overall strain of a presidential run. If this were a once in a lifetime opportunity or she had some special skillset, i would understand. However, she's 44 and its not obvious that she has done anything too notable other than appeal to the anti-abortion right. in fact, i'm surprised family values conservatives support this. (you know the ones that were pissed that hillary might dare play a role in bill's administration). her family is her business, but i just don't get it.

bonus fun fact: she implemented a windfall profits tax on alaskan oil companies. while this is not quite the same as a national tax, it should rile up anti-tax conservatives.

White trash in the White House?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html

Gotta love fuckin' rednecks...

I love that the father is a "hell-raiser" for fishing out of season.

Keep that kid away from society!

If you ignore her political background all together, she's still a shady VP pick. You leave behind a 4 month old special needs child and a pregnant daughter when they both need you and you are supposed to be the conservative bringing in the family values voters. Then you add in the fact that McCain barely knows her. On top of that you add her flip flopping on issues. And finally you add in her "global warming is not affected by humans" and that she thinks polar bears are getting in the way of drilling crap. This is a recipe for disaster for McCain.

Experience this.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u101/kubla000/319098225_e3fb99541f.jpg

I bet you can get some nice french fries from that drive thru window.

Chris and Zanny are sexist. Plain and simple. The man can do whatever but the women need to stay home with the kids. Incredible things for libs to say when you are 'supposed' to be such progressive thinkers. Amazing really.

Chris and Zanny are sexist. Plain and simple. The man can do whatever but the women need to stay home with the kids. Incredible things for libs to say when you are 'supposed' to be such progressive thinkers. Amazing really.

I've had quite enough of you putting words in my mouth. When did I say anything about her husband? If he was leaving to run some oil company in the Middle East I'd say the same damn thing. So don't go putting words in my mouth and accusing me of being sexist when I give two shits about a women's right to govern her body and your party does not. So get off your high horse and start voting for a candidate that actually cares about equal pay instead of a womanizer.

Then you can talk to me about sexism.

I've had quite enough of you putting words in my mouth. When did I say anything about her husband? If he was leaving to run some oil company in the Middle East I'd say the same damn thing. So don't go putting words in my mouth and accusing me of being sexist when I give two shits about a women's right to govern her body and your party does not. So get off your high horse and start voting for a candidate that actually cares about equal pay instead of a womanizer.

Then you can talk to me about sexism.

Well, this is the first I've heard of 'putting words in your mouth'.

I reread your post and I feel the same way Chris. They seem sexist to me. I'm serious about this next part, feel free to call me stupid and ignorant for not knowing what sexism means, but thats the way I read them.

It seems to me that most of the posts on Palin have been about some pretty trivial stuff. Maybe we could get back to debating where she stands on issues. Like whether to drill, combined with money for alternatives that she supports, changing Gov't, etc.

I'm sorry if my post offends you. Thats just the way I read it.

Well, then obviously you don't know what sexism is at all. You think I'm sexist for calling out a women preaching family values that is putting her career ahead of her family? It has nothing to do with her being a woman at all. As I said, if she was a man the argument would be no different. Where in my post did I say "I can't believe she's leaving her family for a career, only men should do that"? You are putting sex in that equation, not me. I'm putting family in the equation.

I've been placing the trivial stuff in the "Veeps" thread. Given who we have as VP candidates, it seems inevitable that there'll be boatloads of trivial stuff.

The bigger stuff, where I think the VP oopses may hit the presidential election, I've reserved for the Obama-McCain thread.

I don't think looking at these things about Palin are "trivial" at all.

In the absence of a concrete, national record, I think we all need to find out just what kind of past and character the potential future President has.

It would be foolish to not dig as deeply as possible into these things, just to regret not doing so later, IMO.

And the Republicans are certainly not above doing the same thing that is being done by "unofficial vetters" right now. In fact, they beat everyone to the punch. Just look at all of the stuff that they've been trying to dig up on Obama (Rev. Wright, the radical neighbor, etc.)

Now they want Palin handled with kid gloves?

It's (almost) all fair game because they have made it that way.

Since the actual announcement, I've been trying to limit my posts to this thread to the more trivial aspects of the VPs (her soon-to-be son-in-law is a fuckin' redneck, what her old city hall looked like, etc.). Let's put the more serious stuff in the BO-vs.-JM thread where it really belongs.

I was hoping that Tahoe was going to start the companion thread to the Biden thread ("Everything you need to know about Sarah Palin"), but since there seems to be a reluctance to have anyone find out anything about her, I can see why that thread never happened.

^snarky

Maybe all of the Palin background stuff needs to go to a thread like that?

Well, then obviously you don't know what sexism is at all. You think I'm sexist for calling out a women preaching family values that is putting her career ahead of her family? It has nothing to do with her being a woman at all. As I said, if she was a man the argument would be no different. Where in my post did I say "I can't believe she's leaving her family for a career, only men should do that"? You are putting sex in that equation, not me. I'm putting family in the equation.

I really don't want to continue this, but to answer that question, yes. That is what women have been saying for years.

They feel men and the workplace are making it out to be a decision between a carreer or family, when they feel they can have both a career and be a mother just like men can have a carreer and be a father.

Wow, I think we might need that thread that I referenced.

Anybody read this yet? Check out the part about her trying to ban books in the library:
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

edit: also from that same article, her own mother in law likes Obama and isn't sure that she's going to vote for her daughter in law. Wild stuff.

I just browsed the article but its surprising that they could get some less than flattering comments coming from her opponent that she beat.

I really don't want to continue this, but to answer that question, yes. That is what women have been saying for years.

They feel men and the workplace are making it out to be a decision between a carreer or family, when they feel they can have both a career and be a mother just like men can have a carreer and be a father.

Well, that is Busch league then. Because some people are sexist that automatically makes me sexist for raising an issue if a women leaves her kids behind? So if I say I have a problem with Chad Johnson running his mouth does that make me a racist too?

Tahoe,

I said many of the same kind of things that Chris and some others did here several days ago (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=271159&postcount=320) do you have a problem with these comments?

Yeah Tahoe... the point is that it's a big plus in "family values" to have both parents around to raise and care for their children during important times. I'm not saying it's an extreme issue, but I definitely wouldn't call it sexist.

I'm not saying she can't still be a good parent anymore, either. It just becomes a question.

Thank you. I equate it to Obama and Wright. It doesn't mean he/she shouldn't be elected, it's just an issue that I think is fair game. Her situation takes a hit on family values (until properly explained) just like Obama's message of unity took a hit from Wright's speaches (until that was cleared up).

All I'm saying is that is an issue in my mind. It doesn't make her a horrible person. But I'd like to hear her explain why she's running with McCain. I haven't heard that yet. In fairness to her, she hasn't had much time to explain yet.

Damnit, the serious bits are too good to pass up.

With regard to the serious sexism charges, sometimes family shit happens and the entire family's prospects get changed as a result. A friend of mine has a badly autistic child. That impacts both him and his wife's career choices, and they're trying their damndest to mitigate impact on their other (non-autistic) child's prospects in life. That's the sort of danger that comes with having kids. Sometimes, that kid is going to determine your entire family's destiny. It's not a matter of "the father gets to play while the mom should be stuck with kid"... sometimes it means everyone is just plain stuck.

Is that the case with Palin? Should that be? I don't know. But when I think of handidcapped kids, I'm not thinking impact to "her" or "him", but "them".

Oh fuck it... I'm better with funny stuff.

Rk8u8dBgDxI
1RN5xbWtNSU

Well, all she needs to say is the family is moving to Washington when we win and he'll get the care and support he needs there. End of story (assuming that is the plan). I never said his career is more important than hers.

Oh fuck it... I'm better with funny stuff.


Funny stuff. It looked like he was playing with his wedding ring trying to remind himself he's married and can't touch that.

All kidding aside, I think he was just uncomfortable in general. But it's fun to kid around.

Tahoe,

I said many of the same kind of things that Chris and some others did here several days ago (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showpost.php?p=271159&postcount=320) do you have a problem with these comments?

Hell yea, I do. You sexist, keep women bare foot and pregnant, cooking and cleaning, neanderthal. :) Now I'll go read your comments.

Well, that is Busch league then. Because some people are sexist that automatically makes me sexist for raising an issue if a women leaves her kids behind? So if I say I have a problem with Chad Johnson running his mouth does that make me a racist too?

Where did she say anything about leaving her kids behind? <---serious question.

I don't have any source of her saying that. I've just heard talk about it on CNN, MSNBC, etc. That is the original question I posed:


You leave behind a 4 month old special needs child and a pregnant daughter when they both need you and you are supposed to be the conservative bringing in the family values voters. .
If you had said she never said she'd leave them behind and it won't happen, we could have avoided this entire discussion.

Hell yea, I do. You sexist, keep women bare foot and pregnant, cooking and cleaning, neanderthal. :) Now I'll go read your comments.

You forgot cutting the grass and getting me beer dammit!

By the way Tahoe, props for hanging in and keeping your sense of humor in these discussions (for the most part).

I wish we had some more "differing" viewpoints here at WTF on these topics.

I've actually been kind of concerned that we might lose a good poster or two before November because of this stuff, hopefully not.

I don't have any source of her saying that. I've just heard talk about it on CNN, MSNBC, etc. That is the original question I posed:


If you had said she never said she'd leave them behind and it won't happen, we could have avoided this entire discussion.

Wait, so we are discussing something based on an assumption of yours?

No, based on the assumptions of the media.

By the way Tahoe, props for hanging in and keeping your sense of humor in these discussions (for the most part).

I wish we had some more "differing" viewpoints here at WTF on these topics.

I've actually been kind of concerned that we might lose a good poster or two before November because of this stuff, hopefully not.

And to y'all too.

Last sentence: I thought about asking if you could make the political forums NOT available to me from time to time. I thought that might help keep the peace.

Maybe that would be a good semi-ban method if things get too heated. :)

You might as well ban me along with Tahoe. :)

yeah, this is who I want to be just a heart attack away from leading our country
teymmo8P_rA

Without Tahoe it would be kind of a circle jerk on here. I prefer the debate myself.

Banning Tahoe would be worse than that cunt Sarah Palin wanting to burn books.

I'm feeling saucy, sorry.

^ as do I.

Without Tahoe it would be kind of a circle jerk on here. I prefer the debate myself.

You're a master, that's for sure.

Books are overrated

Banning Tahoe would be worse than that cunt Sarah Palin wanting to burn books.





Burn him!

fahrenheit 451 him.

My favorite movie, btw.

Definitely not holding any grudges. I don't suffer from the illusion that the person who becomes President is capable of making us a better country.

Don't forget, Wil is here to place his well respected opinion.

Chris and Zanny are sexist. Plain and simple. The man can do whatever but the women need to stay home with the kids. Incredible things for libs to say when you are 'supposed' to be such progressive thinkers. Amazing really.

This is ridiculous. I specifically said that either a mother or father should think twice about a vp run in consideration of the two very specific issues the palins face. i also said it is ultimately the family's decision. if they think they will cope with everything that is fine. i don't have a litmus test for their internal family problems. the reason i would not vote for mccain/palin is 100% issues. my contention is that for years the family values wing of the republican party has been preaching the importance of mothers staying at home and raising kids. good for sarah palin in standing up to them during her mayoral and gubenatorial runs. i don't have a problem with working mothers, james dobson does (unless they're on welfare).

however, the family has two huge issues to address (as a family), which should require considerable attention from both parents. These issues have developed over the last 6 months and she is subjecting herself to intense media scrutiny.

also whether or not her engaged daughter moves to washington should be up to her and her fiance. I assume they'll both have many more family members in alaska than washington and i think they would probably be better off staying away from the washington spotlight. in the end, i don't really care what the palin family chooses to do. that is their business. however, i am certainly free to comment on a message board without some faux pc police stepping in.

Definitely not holding any grudges. I don't suffer from the illusion that the person who becomes President is capable of making us a better country.

Or if I would convince EVERY single one of you to vote Republican that it would change the outcome of the election, so don't try. Or, God forbid, I would vote for BO would change the outcome.

don't sell yourself short, Tahoe....you could be the one to push him over the top

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

So i'm the sexist?




Hillary, on the other hand, I don't like. I don't like her demeanor, what she says, what she looks like, etc...just off the top.

Yes to Bill, not to Hill


Hillary cries for the crowd today...boo hoo hoo. Well she got all chocked up and teary eyed anyway. WHAT A JOKE! Go away you ugly bitch

She was crying because, in her words...."I don't want this country to fall back" and later she admitted her tear were, in part, due to she's an ugly fucking whore. <--her words. I was a lil surprised at that.





"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."

Did you hear the one about the woman who is attacked on the street by a gorilla, beaten senseless, raped repeatedly and left to die? When she finally regains consciousness and tries to speak, her doctor leans over to hear her sigh contently and to feebly ask, `Where is that marvelous ape?'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html
Watched the video. She's not much of a speaker really. It looked like open mike night somewhere. Nobody was laughing at her jokes. While I don't care about my president (or VP) being funny, she didn't really connect well with the audience (an audience she knows).

The whole thing about praying for a pipeline because god wants it is rather troublesome IMO. Are we going to invade some more countries because god told us to?

don't sell yourself short, Tahoe....you could be the one to push him over the top

If its a tie, give me a call, I'd be happy to cast that vote. :)

Unfortunately it would be too late if we knew that. Also, you'd vote JM anyway and rub it in our faces :)

You might as well ban me along with Tahoe. :)

Unity!

edit: on second thought, i decided against that posting magazine parody is a little too drudge-esque

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2008_08_31_archive.html#6252133508046859961

According to MSNBC, the Palin kids were told their Ohio trip was to celebrate an anniversary. In the dark about the Veep announcement.

I try not to tell people how to parent their kids, but last night I said to Mrs. Atrios something along the lines of, "I don't know what goes on in their family, but at the very least if I had a pregnant teen daughter and I was asked to be a VP candidate I'd sit down with her and make sure that was ok."

Obviously, her and her daughters didn't wear bikinis to boost business:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_scrubbing_car_wash.html

Palin and husband Todd each held a 20 percent stake in Anchorage Car Wash LLC, according to state corporation records filed in 2004.

The venture was not entirely smooth sailing, though. State records show the business ran into trouble with Alaska's division of corporations business and professional licensing after Palin became governor of the state in 2006.

A Feb. 11, 2007 letter to the governor's business partner advises that the car wash had "not filed its biennial report and/or paid its biennial fees," which were more than a year overdue.

The warning letter was written on state letterhead, which carried Palin's name at the top, next to the state seal.

On April 3, 2007, the state went further and issued a "certificate of involuntary dissolution" because of the car wash's failure to file its report and pay state licensing fees.

http://sarahpalin.typepad.com/
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj304/eliotsj/foreignaffairs_sarahpalin.jpg

Man, watching TV here and there, it seems they are attempting to destroy her before she gets a chance to speak at the convention.

Smear politics at its worst.

On CNN, some commentator just said that sarah palin plays to women in places like Southfield MI because. Supposedly, when southfield women see palin they see themselves. i am quite certain that commentator does not have as strong a grip the common southfield woman as she thinks she does.

Man, watching TV here and there, it seems they are attempting to destroy her before she gets a chance to speak at the convention.

Smear politics at its worst.

Is the Ayers story smear politics at its best?

I just think families should be off limits. BO can say it all he wants but you know he has his attack machine working overtime putting out leads to all his liberal outlets to keep this story going.

I just think families should be off limits. BO can say it all he wants but you know he has his attack machine working overtime putting out leads to all his liberal outlets to keep this story going.

the stuff about palin writes itself. She paints herself as a reformer, but hires a dc lobbying firm (who had abramoff as a client) to get more pork barrel spending for her small town. That's total bullshit. Her husband was registered to a secessionist party until 2002 and she taped remarks for that group. She has gotten in trouble for firing people she didn't like as mayor and as governor. She claimed that an oil pipeline was God's will. Her daughter's pregnancy is the least of her concerns. For someone who damns barack obama for having known ayers, these pleas ring awfully hollow. Her issues are entirely her own creation, while ayers and wright are totally guilt by association.

by the way, there are already reports of batshit crazy things said by her preacher.

the stuff about palin writes itself. She paints herself as a reformer, but hires a dc lobbying firm (who had abramoff as a client) to get more pork barrel spending for her small town. That's total bullshit. Her husband was registered to a secessionist party until 2002 and she taped remarks for that group. She has gotten in trouble for firing people she didn't like as mayor and as governor. She claimed that an oil pipeline was God's will. Her daughter's pregnancy is the least of her concerns. For someone who damns barack obama for having known ayers, these pleas ring awfully hollow. Her issues are entirely her own creation, while ayers and wright are totally guilt by association.

by the way, there are already reports of batshit crazy things said by her preacher.

Well then that must explain BO's recent rise in the polls.

The race might be over.

On CNN, some commentator just said that sarah palin plays to women in places like Southfield MI because. Supposedly, when southfield women see palin they see themselves. i am quite certain that commentator does not have as strong a grip the common southfield woman as she thinks she does.
BWAHAHA!!!

I suspect someone got Southfield and Bloomfield confused.

BWAHAHA!!!

I suspect someone got Southfield and Bloomfield confused.

Not sure the jews for jesus and lifelong membership in the nra works for the bloomfield set. I think we need to keep going north to clarkston or brighton.

How could she remain a member of such a radical church? How dare she not walk out on such an outrageous sermon? Seriously, the limbaugh and hannitys of the world will surely try to explain why ayers and wright are so much worse than her church and her husband's secessionist leanings. Nonetheless, it seems the republicans will have to finally argue about issues rather than personality, which i think is a certain loser for them. Sarah Palin is like the gift that just keeps on giving.


Vice presidential pick Sarah Palin says she doesn’t share the views of a Jews for Jesus leader who in a speech at her church suggested that violence against Israelis resulted from God’s judgment against Jews who have failed to embrace Jesus.

David Brickner, the executive director of Jews for Jesus, suggested in his Aug. 17 sermon at Wasilla Bible Church that the refusal to accept Jesus was responsible for the long history of devastation visited upon Jerusalem. He also described his group’s successful targeting of Israeli Jews, both in Israel and elsewhere.

“Judgment is very real, and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television,” said Brickner, according to a transcript posted on the church’s Web site. “It’s very real. When [my son] Isaac was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment—some of that conflict—when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment—you can’t miss it.”



http://www.jewishjournal.com/elections/article/mccain_team_palin_rejects_views_of_churchs_jews_fo r_jesus_speaker_20080903/

This was posted 4 hours before the remark was leaked to the press as something that Palin would say:

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YmMwODM1OWQxZDYxMDlmZjEwZDQ5YzQ4YzNlMmEwNmY=


If They Insist Upon Calling Her 'Mayor Palin,' Instead of "Governor Palin'...

Dear Sarah,

Please use this line: "Being a mayor is kind of like being a community organizer, except mayors have to get results and are held accountable if they don't."

Thanks,

Jim

By not crediting the National Review, did Palin plagiarize? Or is it so obvious that she didn't write her own speech that a plagiarism charge is unwarranted?
Biden got crucified in 1988 for such a thing, remember.

I heard McCain criticized her pork barrel items as a mayor years ago.

I will say this, I think there are a couple VERY embarrassing moments ahead for Ms Palin. I'm sure she immersed herself in AK goings on and I doubt she paid much attention to the world stuff.

The question is, whether the voters will care.

It's pretty telling that they won't let her speak to the media. At all.

Oh, but they'll send her out there to fundraise!

McCain's pimp hand is strong.

(and yes, that is sexist, but also accurate)

It's pretty telling that they won't let her speak to the media. At all.

Oh, but they'll send her out there to fundraise!

McCain's pimp hand is strong.

(and yes, that is sexist, but also accurate)

don't forget they made her available to People and AIPAC (Israeli lobby). First things first!

edit: People magazine

Biden is getting warmed up.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/26563623#26563623

"What do you talk about when you have nothing to say?"

Some good, some pretty hollow, imo.

Well, I think he's dead on with most of it. McCain wanted the election to be about character, Obama wants it to be about issues. I think that much we can agree on.

The problem for McCain is I think Obama has great character and it's looking more and more like Palin may not. So now McCain is mixing character and change together. What happens if her character does go in the toilet and all McCain is left with is a change message? How can that work against Obama? If she really is innocent on all this stuff, they need to clear her name fast or this becomes a race of alleged change vs true change (instead of alleged change and character vs change)

Well, I think he's dead on with most of it. McCain wanted the election to be about character, Obama wants it to be about issues. I think that much we can agree on.

Sorry bout that. I don't totally agree. I know what his Campaign mgr said and everything, but I don't think JM minds discussing the issues at all.

The problem for McCain is I think Obama has great character and it's looking more and more like Palin may not. So now McCain is mixing character and change together. What happens if her character does go in the toilet and all McCain is left with is a change message? How can that work against Obama? If she really is innocent on all this stuff, they need to clear her name fast or this becomes a race of alleged change vs true change (instead of alleged change and character vs change)

And BO is NOT change one lil bit, imo. He's a liberal. He hasn't done anything across the isle. He's a hardcore dem.

Believe his speeches to the masses if you want, I tend to go with his record.

And BO is NOT change one lil bit, imo. He's a liberal. He hasn't done anything across the isle. He's a hardcore dem.

Believe his speeches to the masses if you want, I tend to go with his record.
How is BO not change when he is liberal (as you just said) and yet the president is conservative? You completely lost me there.

And how has he not done anything across the aisle when we just sited multiple legislation items that he passed with republicans (in response to Palin's faulty arguement)? She obviously brain washed you with that statement.

When they poll peeps about change, I don't think its just about what party the Prez is so the voters want the other party. He is more of the same DC politics, imo.

I'll have to go check all those items he passed. It isn't Palin. I didn't just start paying attention to the race when Palin as picked. I didn't think he has authored shit. I'll go check. If I'm wrong, sorry bout that.

Tahoe's Sig below Chris sig is as perfect example of how things look. Obama pushes himself, McCain pushes on hating on Obama. Didn't say it was true, just how it looks alot of the time.

And BO is NOT change one lil bit, imo. He's a liberal. He hasn't done anything across the isle. He's a hardcore dem.

Believe his speeches to the masses if you want, I tend to go with his record.
Obama-Lugar and Obama-Hagel nuclear non-proliferation work (involving a certain country who's gotten more popular lately)

Obama-Coburn bills involving open government and Katrina

McCain bringing it up is laughable since the Obama-McCain immigration reform bill snagged because it'd hurt McCain's presidency chances.

Obama's actually accomplished some things as Senator. You may be interested in reading them. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_Uni ted_States_Senate)

Or, if you're not intellectually honest, you may be interested in reading something else. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/)

Ok, its nothing, nada, zip compared to Mr War Hero working bipartisanly. JM is the man and the rest are posers.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/440/akdix6.jpg

Ok, its nothing, nada, zip compared to Mr War Hero working bipartisanly. JM is the man and the rest are posers.
Besides McCain-Feingold, name a bill sponsored by McCain that truly required bipartisan support to pass and actually became the law of the land.

I don't keep track of all that shit. I just know that he was a POW, so he must have sponsored TONS.

alsoillhavetogocheck

Here are some though...

S.161 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s161is.txt.pdf), a bill to provide for a land exchange in Arizona between the secretary of agriculture and a limited partnership, 109th Congress.
Cosponsors: one Republican.

S.579 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_bills&docid=f:s579is.txt.pdf), a bill to reauthorize the National Transportation Safety Board, 108th Congress.
Cosponsors: two Republicans and two Democrats.

S.1354 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=105_cong_bills&docid=f:s1354is.txt.pdf), a bill to amend the Communications Act of 1934 to allow for common carriers not subject to state commission jurisdiction, 105th Congress.
Cosponsors: two Republicans and two Democrats.

S.1364 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=105_cong_bills&docid=f:s1364is.txt.pdf), a bill to eliminate unnecessary federal reports, 105th Congress.
Cosponsors: one Democrat.

S.2413 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=105_cong_bills&docid=f:s2413is.txt.pdf), a bill prohibiting the transfer of land in a national forest in Arizona unless the conveyance was made to a certain town or otherwise authorized by an act of Congress, 105th Congress.
Cosponsor: one Republican.

And here’s a look at just a few of the bills McCain has recently sponsored. None were signed into law:

S.83 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s83is.txt.pdf), a bill to provide more security for rail transportation.
Cosponsors: two Democrats, one Independent and one Republican.

S.85 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s85is.txt.pdf), a bill to amend the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 to make clear that Indian tribes and territories can get grants to combat methamphetamine use.
Cosponsors: 11 Democrats and three Republicans.

S.192 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s192is.txt.pdf), Lobbying, Ethics and Earmarks Transparency and Accountability Act of 2007, which provides for transparency in lobbying activities.
Cosponsors: one Republican, one Democrat and one Independent.

S.166 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s166is.txt.pdf), Cell Phone Tax Moratorium Act of 2007, which restricts states from imposing a new tax on cell phone services.
Cosponsors: six Republicans and one Democrat.

Doing some quick lookups on Thomas...

All those ones that were actually passed into law weren't hot-button issues, as evidenced by the low # of co-sponsors, unanimous passage with zero or very few amendments, not having a name like "McCain-{fill in the Democrat}" associated with them, etc. Every Senator has bills like that. That's one big reason I think "voted xx% of the time with the President" stats are bogus.

McCain's proposed lot of legislation with Dems as "dual" sponsors (as distinct from co-sponsors, often a "me too" thing). There was the McCain-Lieberman bill on guns, McCain-Kennedy on immigration, and the dumb McCain-KerrEy encryption bill. None of 'em ever got anywhere, and McCain went back to the party line, having pissed off fellow Republicans along the way.

He does have some bipartisan successes -- McCain-Feingold, the Gang Of 14 -- but a lot of high-profile failure. Maybe there's more? I dunno... I ask the question because I don't know. I would've assumed McCain would have some huge list of substantive bipartisan accomplishments somewhere, but I didn't see it.

And I think a lot of time its the stuff you block that is just as good as the stuff you pass.

I know he didnt block that last Highway bill of 200 billion or something, but i bet he voted against it. I could be wrong on that, but those are the bills he hates. I hope Dems can give him that much. I mean the guy is respected by Dems a lot, cept during a run as prez. :)

I looked for his vote but couldn't find it.

And I think a lot of time its the stuff you block that is just as good as the stuff you pass.
Doesn't this belong in one of the bathroom threads? :)


I know he didnt block that last Highway bill of 200 billion or something, but i bet he voted against it. I could be wrong on that, but those are the bills he hates. I hope Dems can give him that much. I mean the guy is respected by Dems a lot, cept during a run as prez. :)

I looked for his vote but couldn't find it.
He voted against -- this was the "Bridge To Nowhere" bill. In that case, he essentially voted with Bush, as Bush would've likely vetoed if it hadn't passed with a veto-proof majority.

McCain knows how to not spend money in the face of big dollar signs. Beyond that, I don't see much of a clue. I fear he's way off-base on the "guns or butter" equation.

Granholm to stand in for Palin in Biden's vice presidential debate practice

By KATHLEEN GRAY • FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER • September 10, 2008

Gov. Jennifer Granholm has agreed to help vice presidential candidate Joe Biden prepare for his Oct. 2 debate with Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

Biden told a group of supporters at a fund-raiser Tuesday night in Chicago that Granholm will spend four days with him as a stand-in for Palin to prepare for the debate.

The two women have more than just being governors in common. They’re close to each other in age. Granholm is 49 and Palin is 44. And both competed in beauty pageants in their youth.

Granholm went to a Hollywood acting school and appeared once on ''The Dating Game'' TV show. She later decided to go to college at the University of California-Berkeley.

Liz Boyd spokeswoman for the governor confirmed that “The governor has been asked to help and is pleased to accept.”

The debate will be held at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo.

Interesting.


Granholm was in a beauty pageant? Times have changed...

I've always thought that she resembles Michelle Pfieffer.

I met JG in person at a UM tailgate when she was first running for Gov. (a friend of a friend was her campaign manager) and she was actually pretty attractive in person.

Cool as hell, too. Drank some beers with us and talked football.

It's too bad she has a political agenda.

But I wish her well.

I've always thought that she resembles Michelle Pfieffer.

I met JG in person at a UM tailgate when she was first running for Gov. (a friend of a friend was her campaign manager) and she was actually pretty attractive in person.

Cool as hell, too. Drank some beers with us and talked football.

If you could remove that mole she'd be pretty decent looking for her age IMO.

He does have some bipartisan successes -- McCain-Feingold, the Gang Of 14 -- but a lot of high-profile failure. Maybe there's more? I dunno... I ask the question because I don't know. I would've assumed McCain would have some huge list of substantive bipartisan accomplishments somewhere, but I didn't see it.

Newsweek makes much the same point that I was making:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/158767

Mxy > Newsweek

A couple weeks ago, the McCain-Palin campaign reported that her kids were in the dark about her VP announcement. As I reported back then:

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2008_08_31_archive.html#6252133508046859961
According to MSNBC, the Palin kids were told their Ohio trip was to celebrate an anniversary. In the dark about the Veep announcement.

I try not to tell people how to parent their kids, but last night I said to Mrs. Atrios something along the lines of, "I don't know what goes on in their family, but at the very least if I had a pregnant teen daughter and I was asked to be a VP candidate I'd sit down with her and make sure that was ok."
Also: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/29/1307122.aspx

But today, she told Sean Hannity that her kids knew and got to vote on it:
http://thepage.time.com/excerpts-from-palins-hannity-interview-part-i/

On her family’s reaction to be picked as the VP nominee:
“It was a time of asking the girls to vote on it, anyway. And they voted unanimously, yes. Didn’t bother asking my son because, you know, he’s going to be off doing his thing anyway, so he wouldn’t be so impacted by, at least, the campaign period here. So ask the girls what they thought and they’re like, absolutely. Let’s do this, mom.”

Keep on shoveling that bullshit... the American public loves it!

She's coming off as a habitual liar, at this point.

A couple weeks ago, the McCain-Palin campaign reported that her kids were in the dark about her VP announcement. As I reported back then:

Also: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/29/1307122.aspx

But today, she told Sean Hannity that her kids knew and got to vote on it:
http://thepage.time.com/excerpts-from-palins-hannity-interview-part-i/


Keep on shoveling that bullshit... the American public loves it!

You guys can find the most trivial shit to talk about. :)