Amare + Shaq + Nash + a jumpshooting cast =
That's a nightmare.

Better than Boston in my opinion.
And Shaq would do it just to spite Kobe, believe that.

I'd agree with you if this was Shaq when he isn't washed up.

Hey, if he can stay healthy though, who knows. I still think LA is better.

I don't like it at all for the Suns. How were the Heat able to find a taker for Shaq in the first place, and then get an all-star back in return?

(edit) Wait, maybe I have it figured out.

Wave Of Crime Rivals Heat In Phoenix
9 Murders, 7 Rapes And Over 40 Shootings Have Residents On Edge

(CBS/AP) This summer, along with its usual heat wave, a crime wave is spreading through the Phoenix area. Nine murders, seven rapes and over 40 shootings in all has put residents on edge as police investigate the possibility of a third serial criminal on the loose.

Police believe 13 shootings since May, including two during the weekend that wounded two people, are connected, possibly making it the third series of shooting attacks in the city over the past year.

The situation is "everybody's worst nightmare," said Tim Cahoon, chairman of the Loma Linda Neighborhood Association told The Arizona Republic.
Is this the answer?
http://www.urbanhonking.com/truefan/archives/shaq-cop.jpg

Bubbles and Karl are the first people I've seen that think this is anything but ridiculous. Shaq can't play Suns ball, period. Huge mistake.

Bubbles and Karl are the first people I've seen that think this is anything but ridiculous. Shaq can't play Suns ball, period. Huge mistake.
Doesnt have to. He can still force double teams if you dump it to him enough and still rebound. As a team are the suns unselfish enough to involve him as much as they need to in order to get their jump shooters wide open? I think so. But who knows?

This definitely is a knee jerk reaction to their division rival nabbing Gasol.

LOL. The heat are getting a steal if Marion resigns. Dwade and Marion should be interesting.

The suns are just fucking themselves over. If I was Kerr, Id easily take Prince and a few expirings for Marion. The suns are no longer contenders after this.

There is no way the Suns would be able to slug it out with the real contenders if they limit their offense to half court. No way. Forget how much success they might have dumping it down and then passing it out (and lets just pretend that guys like Hill would still be able to hit threes standing at the ark for 15 seconds waiting for that jumper rather than pulling up at the ark in transition). They will stop no one with Nash and Amare on the court and you HAVE to play defense if you are going to play a half court game.

shaq is still shaq for about 20 mpg.

the suns need toughness and something new. a plow in the middle could work. plus shaq passes well. nash can make any athletic sf pretty badass.

i would definitly do this if i were phx. why not?

Bubbles and Karl are the first people I've seen that think this is anything but ridiculous. Shaq can't play Suns ball, period. Huge mistake.

Well, "Fool" this is because Bubbles and Karl don't think to the constraints of "suns ball" Obviously with Shaq, you stop playing Suns ball. you play a half court offense.
And the possibilities inside of a half court offense with this roster, are PRETTY FUCKING GOOD.

yet, you , like many others you will hear from, don't take the thinking any farther than what the suns do already.

K sweetie? :P

There is no way the Suns would be able to slug it out with the real contenders if they limit their offense to half court. No way. Forget how much success they might have dumping it down and then passing it out (and lets just pretend that guys like Hill would still be able to hit threes standing at the ark for 15 seconds waiting for that jumper rather than pulling up at the ark in transition). They will stop no one with Nash and Amare on the court and you HAVE to play defense if you are going to play a half court game.

They are improved defensively with Shaq. And they don't have to play great defense, just enough defense. Offensively they should be the most efficient team in the league and one of the better rebounder's at both ends. So it doesn't really matter how great the defense is if they always have the ball, and always score when they do.

To be efficient with Shaq on the court you are hoping for 1 of 2 things happening. Either Shaq will make your team efficient or the Suns shooters can still shoot without that transition rythm and free flow because they aren't going to have it while Shaq is on the court.

Miami is shit in terms of offensive efficiency this year with Shaq so I don't think #1 is happening. MAYBE Nash can get Shaq the ball more than Wade, Williams, Kobe, and Fisher have in the past but I think those "they don't get me the ball" cries that were legitimate at one point in Shaqs career have turned into "he doesn't get proper low post position as often as he needs to."

As for option 2. See Quiton Richardson.

Bucher says the Suns want Shaq for defensive reasons. Now sure Shaq is better than Amare defensively, but Mourning has been the Heats' primary defensive weapon in the post the last three years and he had even replaced Shaq on the court in crucial moments because of his superior defensive abilities. Shaq has very limited lateral movement and has the highest fouls/game rate of his career (matched only by his rookie year). Remember when he kept fouling out in the beginning of the year?

As far as rebounding, getting rid of your teams leading rebounder for a guy who brings down 2 less boards a game doesn't scream "improvement" to me.

There is no way the Suns would be able to slug it out with the real contenders if they limit their offense to half court. No way. Forget how much success they might have dumping it down and then passing it out (and lets just pretend that guys like Hill would still be able to hit threes standing at the ark for 15 seconds waiting for that jumper rather than pulling up at the ark in transition). They will stop no one with Nash and Amare on the court and you HAVE to play defense if you are going to play a half court game.
You think shaq will play more than 25 minutes a game?. I think they can adapt, solely because they still get to shoot the shots they want in the end(jumpers and dunks), but become more wide open. I think Amre/Shaq is a pretty good half court combo (half the time the help out defender will be Amare's defender). And when shaq sits, speed up the tempo.

The Suns will never win a title if they can't battle inside. They almost pulled a Dallas type choke against the lakers the season before last because of the likes of Kwame Brown getting inside on them. Shaq wont play enough minutes to completely slow them down. Again this is just my opinion. I think Amare will look better defensively at PF and that shaq will be a lift defensivesly in the paint which may force a jump shooting match for stretches, a match that the Suns feel they can win.


Also Marion/Wade is a nice combo. But nothing I'd fear anytime soon unless they nabbed a class A Big Man.

Its wierd to think of using the big man (rather than a point guard) to change tempo for only half the game. That's some real discipline to be expected from Nash and co but I've no problem with giving Nash the benefit of the doubt and he ran a more iso oriented offense in Dallas.

I can see the point of this being essentially an upgrade to how they use Skinner but losing Marion would seem to be a high price to pay for doing that.

I can appreciate the philosophy that the Suns have to have a big man presence to get anywhere but they got damn far without that presence last year and the Spurs don't look anything like they did last year so far (and even with Kobe, I don't see Gasol as as much of a threat as Duncan inside). Its all just opinion on my side too. I've been wrong before.

This has nothing to do with the Suns getting better, and everything to do with the Lakers abusing Amare with their big three in the playoffs. Shaq is the Suns 5 spot to Amare's clean up spot... using the ill-fated yet apropos baseball reference.

To be efficient with Shaq on the court you are hoping for 1 of 2 things happening. Either Shaq will make your team efficient or the Suns shooters can still shoot without that transition rythm and free flow because they aren't going to have it while Shaq is on the court.
Stand still shots are easier than moving shots, except for way off the line shots where you need the extra momentum to the basket to just get it there.
In addition. That free flow can lead to drives because of the spacing , instead of jump shots More high percentage again.



Miami is shit in terms of offensive efficiency this year with Shaq

Miami as a total team is shit, Shaq is still a high percentage man hammer.
He is the one being traded ^_-



Bucher says the Suns want Shaq for defensive reasons. Now sure Shaq is better than Amare defensively, but Mourning has been the Heats' primary defensive weapon in the post the last three years and he had even replaced Shaq on the court in crucial moments because of his superior defensive abilities. Shaq has very limited lateral movement and has the highest fouls/game rate of his career (matched only by his rookie year). Remember when he kept fouling out in the beginning of the year?
Shaq protects Amare down low and vice versa. Amare can use his athleticism to play help side defense. Shaq protects dribble penetration to the basket.
Mourning is a great defender, but he doesn't change the game like Shaq, flaws and all. Zo is a great blocker, Shaq pretty much cuts 33% of the lane off with just his frame. And there isn't even a point of trying to back him down in the post.



As far as rebounding, getting rid of your teams leading rebounder for a guy who brings down 2 less boards a game doesn't scream "improvement" to me.
I guess statistically it doesn't . But I'll take Shaq in a half court over Matrix in some bugger ass running game any time. That's the problem with stats isn't it though? They are contextual.

Sure, Phoenix's game was never going to win a championship - but why in hell do they pay someone else to take Kurt Thomas, and then go and trade for Shaq?!?

It just makes no fucking sense, and Kerr needs to go back to behind the announcers desk/Their owner needs to open up his god dam wallet, or sell the team.

I'm reserving judgement until I actually see how they play.

Stand still shooting is better for some (see Kyle Korver). Its indisputable that the Suns run offense and free shooting has helped plenty of players with their percentages (see Tim Thomas, Grant Hill, Quentin Richardson) and there are plenty of players to use as evidence of that.

Its contradictory to say Shaq both clogs the lane like no other and spaces the floor for slashers. The Suns have never had a hard time getting layups, getting Shaq doesn't help that.

Its flat wrong to claim that Shaq changes games defensively more so then Mourning. Go ask ANY Heat fan and they will tell you that Mourning was Ben Wallace-esque the last 3 years and that Shaq was pulled for defensive reasons on multiple occasions.

Stand still shooting is better for some. Its indisputable that the Suns run offense and free shooting has helped plenty of players with their percentages and there are plenty of players to use as evidence of that.

Its contradictory to say Shaq both clogs the lane like no other and spaces the floor for slashers. The Suns have never had a hard time getting layups, getting Shaq doesn't help that.

Its flat wrong to claim that Shaq changes games defensively more so then Mourning. Go ask ANY Heat fan and they will tell you that Mourning was Ben Wallace-esque the last 3 years and that Shaq was pulled for defensive reasons on multiple occasions.


Ha, you have made a fatal error in your argument. Miami Heat fans do not exist.
I have won.

Fuck.

I submit.

Well played.

No matter how badly the Suns might need an inside presence, giving up Marion for a dilapidated Shaq is not going to make them a better team.

The only reason I want to see this trade happen is to give Kobe motivation to bust 100 in a playoff game against the Suns.

I disapprove of this deal from a Suns perspective and as a Heat hater.

The Heat were pretty much doomed being saddled with Shaq's huge contract and declining skills. Steve Kerr just bailed them out, big time.

The Suns with Marion > The Suns with Shaq

WTF is Kerr thinking?

D-WADE certainly lives a charmed life.

Angrily,

Glenn

shaq play good 20 minutes.

shaq devorce need leave miami.

Any other year this would have been huge news. This year, I care less about this than I do about Chris Webber going to GSW.

This is a bad trade for both teams. Plain and simple.

I don't mind it, because it will be fun to watch the Suns start losing games left and right.

Shaq needs to lose about 150 lbs.

Bubbles and Karl are the first people I've seen that think this is anything but ridiculous. Shaq can't play Suns ball, period. Huge mistake.

Nah, I don't like it and thought it was and still is utter shit. I just said that if he stays healthy, who knows?

I disapprove of this deal from a Suns perspective and as a Heat hater.

The Heat were pretty much doomed being saddled with Shaq's huge contract and declining skills. Steve Kerr just bailed them out, big time.

The Suns with Marion > The Suns with Shaq

WTF is Kerr thinking?

D-WADE certainly lives a charmed life.

Angrily,

Glenn

It depends. Marion could simply walk next year. He could also get a fatter contract and saddle the heat for even longer than Shaq would have. Even if Marion does not get a raise from them, he'll still only be a couple million short of Shaq's money a year. They'll have 49 mil in Marion, Wade, Haslem and Blount. The only other player on the roster is Cook, and Parker with a 2.4 mil option. If the cap is about 57 mil (with a normal increase), they'll have about 5 mil to spend (assuming Parker wants his 2.4 mil) with no SF and only 2 bench players under contract. Suppose they get a starting SF with their pick. They still have no bench and they'll be filling it with vet min players.

If that first rounder turns out to be a good player, they'll have 3 good players, no legit center, and they'll simply be like Washington has been (a middle of the road playoff team).

BUT, if he opts out of his contract then they effectively cleared Shaq off their cap. No one says they HAVE to resign him. And they could always trade him again.

Even if Marion walks, the Heat wins this deal, IMO.

It'd be like trading Shaq for expirings. They get all that money off the cap and they can go out looking for someone to team up with Wade.

Heat could be actually ok....next season.

I don't expect them to be utter shit or something.

They'll be a solid 7 or 8 seed. :)

Even if Marion walks, the Heat wins this deal, IMO.

I agree they win if he walks for sure. I think they lose if they sign Marion long term.

I forgot Banks' salary in my figures, which is 4+ mil for 3 more years. That puts the Heat at the cap, and unable to sign anyone worthwhile if they keep Marion.

I really don't see them keeping him at all, because they'll be a two man team and have zero depth (unless they hit it big in the lotto and get a stud).

So who do they persue in FA?

Maybe Banks revives his career as their point guard? He was a hot commodity when he signed with the suns wasn't he?

Jermaine?
Brand?
Maggs?
Artest?
Jamison?

If they could get a big and a wing they could be solid. They could be very good if their pick becomes an all star caliber player. They could sign a backup forward cheap and be a pretty good team:

PG 2008 first rounder/Banks
SG Wade/Cook
SF Artest
PF Haslem
C Brand/Blount

this deal is great for phx.

play shaq 5 minutes at the start of every qrtr (i will be flabergasted if they get him to come off the bench. dont no mvps come off the bench). change of pace type of guy.

face it, bynum could score 100 pts on pre shaq phx. shaq hates bynum, and you know hes got something in the tank for this season. he'll get by on hatred if he has to.

phx suddenly becomes a historically fascinating team. youve got a top 3 center of all time (imo), a sf who was on track to be the best of all time (imo), and probably a top 5-10 pg all time. not that theyre all in their primes... plus amare could have been as good or better than any pf (doubt that happens now).

this deal fucks phoenix' future frautfully, but they went from no chance in hell at winning a championship this year to contender. i love ballsy deals like this.

I'm really pissed off by this deal because I was really looking forward to shaq throwing dwade under the bus like kobe and penny. I don't think that marion will get a huge deal after next season. I see him getting chauncey type money because he will be going into the tail end of his career. (Not every team operates like the magic) Considering the quality of freshmen in the ncaa and miami's shitty season thus far, this shaq trade will set the heat up to build around wade + (rose, beasly, mayo etc.). In phoenix, I don't foresee the nash stoudemire pick and roll working nearly as effectively with shaq cluttering up the middle. Mostly, I was just looking forward to 3 more years of wade/shaq acrimony as they will forever be two of my least favorite players.

This is going to be hilarious.

BREAKING NEWS: My pal just informed me that the Shaq to Phoenix trade will happen.

Man, I'm awesome.

Terrible panic move for phoenix.

I don't expect them to be utter shit or something.
I do.

Its wierd to think of using the big man (rather than a point guard) to change tempo for only half the game. That's some real discipline to be expected from Nash and co but I've no problem with giving Nash the benefit of the doubt and he ran a more iso oriented offense in Dallas.

I can see the point of this being essentially an upgrade to how they use Skinner but losing Marion would seem to be a high price to pay for doing that.

I can appreciate the philosophy that the Suns have to have a big man presence to get anywhere but they got damn far without that presence last year and the Spurs don't look anything like they did last year so far (and even with Kobe, I don't see Gasol as as much of a threat as Duncan inside). Its all just opinion on my side too. I've been wrong before.
Marion wanted out either way, and I think it'll be helpful for Hill with Shaq in much like it was with Howard and Hill last year. I think Marion is High quality but not an MVP to their success on defense. Not because of anything he does wrong, but more because he's playing too much PF with their lack of truly solid big men.. IMO going to the basket on stoudemire and Shaq isnt something that'll work out well. In fact as a PF i expect Stoudemire to get more Blocks not having to play center and being able to help out.

I think they'll be better but as you say, i've been wrong a few times myself.

What's the combined age of Shaq, Nash, and Hill? 200? lol

What's the combined age of Shaq, Nash, Brian Skinner, and Hill? 200? lol

ha, well done.

I agree with everyone that thinks the Heat totally ripped off the Suns. The clear the horrible salary, get a healthy stud in return, and they're done with the drama.
DWade + Marion + possibly the top pick in the draft? Come on. I hate it when the Heat find a way to get amazing results even in an embarrassing season.

i think its a win / win. both teams got what they wanted.

I agree with everyone that thinks the Heat totally ripped off the Suns. The clear the horrible salary, get a healthy stud in return, and they're done with the drama.
DWade + Marion + possibly the top pick in the draft? Come on. I hate it when the Heat find a way to get amazing results even in an embarrassing season.
Yea because outside of Wade and Butler, they draft like monsters :) .....Marion Will have to get torn off a big ass salary to stay in Miami, and odds are he'll go to a bigger contender. So I dont know how much equating to next year you can do as far as marion goes. I can see w/o Shaq Wade is under more pressure as a TO machine trying to do it all w/o that help defender being taken away. They(marion/wade) are an ok combo but not anything close to the Jordan/Pippen level they'd need to be for me to see how they are a threat to do anything significant.

They(marion/wade) are an ok combo but not anything close to the Jordan/Pippen level they'd need to be for me to see how they are a threat to do anything significant.

They may not be a "threat" for a while, but they were totally fucked by Shaq's contract and now they are not.

[smilie=heatsmiley2:

They may not be a "threat" for a while,
I'm going to go out on a limb and say never. I think Marion bolts.

I do agree that financially might as well get Shaq off the books since you've found a away to destroy your supporting cast as badly as they have. [smilie=heatsmiley2:

V really loves that Miami Heat emoticon.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say never. I think Marion bolts.

I do agree that financially might as well get Shaq off the books since you've found a away to destroy your supporting cast as badly as they have. [smilie=heatsmiley2:


But with Wade, and a bit of cap space, and a top 5 pick......They could put something together. Always fear the refs.

where is marion gonna find more $ than in miami? he's made it pretty clear that winning isnt priority #1 w/ him. i think hes pretty likely to stay.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say never. I think Marion bolts.

I do agree that financially might as well get Shaq off the books since you've found a away to destroy your supporting cast as badly as they have.

They are better off if Marion walks IMO. They can go get Brand and Maggs or Artest, plus add their draft pick to the mix. Add a those to a top scorer (and ref favorite) and a solid rebounder/defender in Haslem and you have a good team.

If Marion stays, they are cap strapped again and better hit a home run with their pick or they'll simply be a good but not great team for a long time.

But with Wade, and a bit of cap space, and a top 5 pick......They could put something together. Always fear the refs.
Noted. You are correct. But ever since Riley took over their draft/FA moves have been horrible. IMO I think he needs more help doing all that. Since he wont get it, i see them slipping on the banana peel again. They'll always be a threat to get Ft's though, but I see wade becoming injury prone with less help and more pressure to do it all.

Noted. You are correct. But ever since Riley took over their draft/FA moves have been horrible. IMO I think he needs more help doing all that. Since he wont get it, i see them slipping on the banana peel again. They'll always be a threat to get Ft's though, but I see wade becoming injury prone with less help and more pressure to do it all.

I don't think anyone can mess up the FA moves with Marion gone though (assuming the FA's would want to go there). You can grab Brand or JO to play along side Haslem (i'd take Brand), and Maggs or Artest to play SF and take the harder defensive assignment off of Wade. Then draft the best PG in the draft and you are all set. It doesn't seem like you could really mess that up, unless the big FA's won't come and you start filling in with 2nd rate guys that you may overpay.

Of course you can always draft a bust too.

FA's will always want to go to Miami.

The weather, South Beach and NO income taxes.

I agree. So I think unless Miami is dumb enough to give Marion a raise, they should be in great shape.

I agree. So I think unless Miami is dumb enough to give Marion a raise, they should be in great shape.
They probably are though i think theres a dumber team than them out there to pay him more, But as you have seen being a hot spot doesnt equate to great FA pick ups. Its still a matter of choosing the guys you sign. If being a hot area was all it took, the clippers would be perennial contenders.

The Lakers steal all their guys. Like when Kobe signed with the Lakers instead.

joe says 'wait and see' on how good the shaq deal is. thanks for the insight, joe.

obviously, if shaq cant get healthy, it doesntwork. but nash feeding shaq will lead to lots of easy shaq dunks. if phx still wants to shoot in 7 seconds or less, that offense works 4 on 5 anyway.

Would be better for him to be dominating West teams instead of the Pistons and fucking putting a one man break on for a layup like he did vs. us in 06, so I don't care. :/

When does Marion start playing for the Heat?

Man, talk about a fucked-up trade!

Good work Miami.

The Suns got destroyed in this deal. They ditched their best cutter, rebounder, and perimeter defender for an old, fat, overpriced piece of goo. Shaq CANNOT play defense, sucks at defending the pick and roll, can't rebound, can't block shots, is slow, and cannot stay in the game for more than 2 minutes because of fatigue and the possibility of getting injured. How will the Suns set up their offense when it takes Shaq 20 seconds to cross halfcourt?

Before the trade, they had a shot at the second round. Now, they'll get humiliated in the 1st. The Suns will get pick and rolled to death like Shaq's Heat were last year. Chris Paul, Brandon Roy, AI, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Jason Terry, and especially Kobe are licking their chops.

Oh man, Chris Paul running the P&R with an athletic Tyson Chandler.....

The Lakers steal all their guys. Like when Kobe signed with the Lakers instead.
Donald Sterling was tighter with money than Bill Davidson. The only reason he's loosened up is because of the cap rules that actually penalize teams for paying too little in salaries.

The bonus? In O'Neal, Phoenix brought in the one guy who Stoudemire will listen to more than anyone else in the league, which could be a crucial step in Amare's development if Shaq is serious when he says, "This is the Amare Stoudemire Project for me."
Said Kerr, "Amare respects him so much and needs him physically."

I loved it when Kerr said he was a genius if it worked and a moron if it didn't.

people down on this trade i think underestimate how smart shaq is. also how good dantoni is at making pieces work. and i think shaq's ego will be about making it work, not making sure he is the focus of phx' team. he's already shown in miami that he can adjust.

IF he can play with relative health, i have no doubt this trade will benefit phx.

I definitely think Shaq is motivated to prove all the naysayers wrong, but I just don't think he has the physical tools left to do so. I can see flashes of his former self, but I have no doubt this trade will benefit Miami in the short- and long-term.

I definitely think Shaq is motivated to prove all the naysayers wrong, but I just don't think he has the physical tools left to do so. I can see flashes of his former self, but I have no doubt this trade will benefit Miami in the short- and long-term.
Well said. Defrocked has made me a believer.

When the fuck is this guy going to play?

I definitely think Shaq is motivated to prove all the naysayers wrong, but I just don't think he has the physical tools left to do so. I can see flashes of his former self, but I have no doubt this trade will benefit Miami in the short- and long-term.
His physical tools were "push, shove, dunk, hook, pass on double team, rinse, repeat". I think they are still there.

His physical tools were "push, shove, dunk, hook, pass on double team, rinse, repeat". I think they are still there.

I agree. He simply won't run with them when they push the ball. But he'll still be dominating in the post in the half court set.

And the Suns would still be a better team with Marion, IMO.

well see. as it stood, they had 0.0% chance of hanging with the lakers in a 7 game series.

now they have 2 monsters in the paint that could make things interesting.

you have to keep in mind that every time the lakers played phx this year, bynum had a career game.

And the Suns would still be a better team with Marion, IMO.
in the fastbreak only. In the halfcourt they'll be better with Hill/Shaq/Stoudemire/ and jump shooters. Hill is another factor, he can be effective in the halfcourt as a primary ball handler and scorer. I think him and shaq will work well together. In the halfcourt Marion gives you rebounding, but his 3 point shot is streaky, his post game is also streaky. If you arent pushing the ball, you arent getting his best. He didnt want to be in phoenix, so its not like they lost the franchise guy who was going to be there next year.

Other than not being the top dog, I still don't understand why he didn't want to be in Phoenix. He was making great money and he was in the perfect system for his style of play. The only factor seems to be pecking order. - Nash, Stoudamire, then Marion.

I am not religious, but I'm praying for this deal not to work. I HATE Steve Nash (don't know why, I just do) and don't want him to get a ring.

Other than not being the top dog, I still don't understand why he didn't want to be in Phoenix. He was making great money and he was in the perfect system for his style of play. The only factor seems to be pecking order. - Nash, Stoudamire, then Marion.
Ego is a big deal for some stars. And at the end of the day you cant keep paying them all max contracts long term, which what he'll probably want.

Other than not being the top dog, I still don't understand why he didn't want to be in Phoenix. He was making great money and he was in the perfect system for his style of play. The only factor seems to be pecking order. - Nash, Stoudamire, then Marion.
I think the contract was a big thing too. They were not committed to keeping him past this year. Neither is Miami, but at least he has a to establish himself somewhere. If Miami starts winning, he'll be seen as a huge reason why. Already people are talking about his influence on the lockerroom there. I think he just wanted a team committed to him a little more than the Suns were. He's been rumored to be traded for a long time, I'm sure that wears on you.

Marion had a desire to play his natural position. Full-time undersized PF while being asked to cover the faster PGs because Nash can't D kinda wears on you.

Skip Bayless (of all people) brought up a good point. PHX don't need Shaq to run with them, they just need him to initiate the break.

I agree, but with that having been said I hope Shaq gets hurt (again) and misses a significant amount of time (again) and that he's not able to click with the team. I say that in the nicest way I can of course, because i'd be a dick if I said I wanted him to suffer a season/career ending injury.

Except Shaq isn't a good enough rebounder to initiate the break. They lost defense and boards in this deal. You can't initiate a break when the opposition gets uncontested layup after uncontested layup because Shaq & Nash can't defend the pick-and-roll. :)


Side note: Marion was the highest paid Sun, so I don't think money is as big of a factor as people make it out to be. HE WAS THE BEST AND MOST VALUABLE SUN BUT NEVER GOT ANY CREDIT. He was buried because 1)the white media crowned Steve Nash(the worst MVP in the history of sports) as their Messiah because he made a lot of cute passes and Phoenix winning was a "feel good story", and 2)Amare dunked a lot, then orgasm'd afterwards.

With Marion, it's more about respect than money.

With Marion, it's more about respect than money.
:cogent:
That's exactly what I was saying. It was all about being top dog for him, or as close as he could get to it. Only D-Wade above him in Miami.

:cogent:
That's exactly what I was saying. It was all about being top dog for him, or as close as he could get to it. Only D-Wade above him in Miami.
good for him. good luck being top dog, no rings.

Zero rings being the third fiddle "team guy" in Phoenix. Pretty much lose/lose either way for Marion as an individual. Not sure if he could swallow his pride and self-respect and sign with a team like SA or DET for nothing in order to win a chip when he opts out. Doubt it, I do.

Zero rings being the third fiddle "team guy" in Phoenix. Pretty much lose/lose either way for Marion as an individual. Not sure if he could swallow his pride and self-respect and sign with a team like SA or DET for nothing in order to win a chip when he opts out. Doubt it, I do.

Zero rings being the third fiddle "team guy" in Phoenix.
if thats how he ever saw it, no wonder he has no rings.


Not sure if he could swallow his pride and self-respect and sign with a team like SA or DET for nothing in order to win a chip when he opts out. Doubt it, I do.
Iffy waters you're walking on there Arch. So he should play low level teams to show off his pride(ego imo, but whatever)? Dude wants a max contract and the suns dont want to give him one. He doesnt lose anything since he'll get paid well wherever he plays next year. If it happens to be an elite team, does that mean he's looking for a free chip? I dont think so, but to each his own. I think you're playing too much of a violin for Marion. There is no lose situation for him at this juncture.

As far as the MVP thing goes, When phoenix plays 500 ball like they do w/o Nash, I'll buy the Nash is horrible idea.

Of course he wants a max tract, that's obvious. The team which signs him better give him 20+ shots and plaster his image all over that city or he'll whine again, even if he gets maxed out like he did in PHX.

then i truly feel bad for the team that signs him. :( :emo kid:

As far as the MVP thing goes, When phoenix plays 500 ball like they do w/o Nash, I'll buy the Nash is horrible idea.
Remember, with Marbury and a mediocre coach in a half-court offense, the Suns took the Spurs to 6 games in the playoffs. I think Nash's D gets exposed bigtime without Marion around. Baron Davis and Monta Ellis took turns abusing Nash last night.

I didn't catch that game, but Shaq didn't play. They say he could tonight vs. Dallas.

Remember, with Marbury and a mediocre coach in a half-court offense, the Suns took the Spurs to 6 games in the playoffs. I think Nash's D gets exposed bigtime without Marion around. Baron Davis and Monta Ellis took turns abusing Nash last night.

Yeah, they played horrible defense last night. It was entertaining, but wasn't championship ball either. Even the lesser players were attacking the basket all night (Barnes, Pietrus). They need Shaq to change the basket defense. Amare was a monster attacking the glass, and Hill rebounded nicely too, but everyone else pretty much watched. Hill did a decent job of guarding Davis, which is why Ellis went off on Nash. They can probably get by against teams with 1 quick guard (with a combination of Hill and Bell), but not two scoring guards.

Shaq isn't making his Suns debut until after the break. Gaaay.

Remember, with Marbury and a mediocre coach in a half-court offense, the Suns took the Spurs to 6 games in the playoffs. I think Nash's D gets exposed big time without Marion around. Baron Davis and Monta Ellis took turns abusing Nash last night.

Remember, with Marbury and a mediocre coach in a half-court offense, the Suns took the Spurs to 6 games in the playoffs.
Rough comparison to the suns now. Nash's bad defense was exposed regardless of marion. Marion was too busy trying to cover PF's so nothing any worse off than it was imo. I can see there will be a post after every loss and crickets after every win. Either way lets see their record at the end of the year.

shaq doesn't scare me anymore. you can single up on him and stay put on their jumpshooters.

he can definitely get a lot of easy dunks off their ball movement and penetration though. you have to lock everyone else down and not become overly concerned with shaq.

shaq isn't half the player he once was. he'll do well for them, but the suns as a team are not improved IMO.

Shaq's first game as a Sun could be against the Lakers on Wednesday btw.

Shaq's first game as a Sun could be against the Lakers on Wednesday btw.

The NBA, Where rape happens without convictions.

Rape is obviously a touchy subject for you.

Rough comparison to the suns now. Nash's bad defense was exposed regardless of marion. Marion was too busy trying to cover PF's so nothing any worse off than it was imo.
Marion was the one covering Tony Parker throughout most of last year's playoffs, after TP opened Nash a new one. He did a fine job of it, too.

Marion was the one covering Tony Parker throughout most of last year's playoffs, after TP opened Nash a new one. He did a fine job of it, too.
Raja bell is capable imo of covering the other team's perimeter asset.

Amare with double-digit boards at the half against LA. Shaq being down in the trenches gives Amare a lot more rebounding and shot-blocking opportunities. He is going to have a beastly 2nd half of the season.

Raja bell is capable imo of covering the other team's perimeter asset.
Neither he, nor (more surprisingly) Barbosa, was filling the bill against TP.

The Suns have pretty short guards. A guy like Tracy McGrady can post them up and/or just straight up shoot right over them.

Raja Bell isn't that great lateraly, not very strong, or all that athletic. He's pretty mediocre defensively.

Raja Bell isn't that great lateraly, not very strong, or all that athletic. He's pretty mediocre defensively.
Wow thats so severely harsh one might think your Kobe fan element is pushing that take. If he's not strong, Kobe must be a twig.
7V8ZukXsWmk

Neither he, nor (more surprisingly) Barbosa, was filling the bill against TP.
Barbosa isnt good on defense. No surprise there. If speed made you good, Stuckey would be our best defender.

But Raja Bell and a solid team gameplan can slow down TP imo. Nash going at him would also help.

shaq laying the body on TP a few times can slow TP down.

parker is one of those guys who's toughness should always be tested. he's seriously one of the best players in the nba when hes comfortable and he's on. gotta kick his ass a little.

btw, raja bell is a very good perimeter defender.

History is not going to look back fondly on this trade.

Remember, the Suns were in 1st place when they made this deal, and now, if they miss the playoffs altogether?

Steve Kerr might as well move to Honduras.

I agree. Steve Kerr needs to stop stealing pages out of the Danny Ferry GM Bible.

I'd be livid right know if I was a Suns fan. I think you have to get rid of D'Antoni, and bring in a guy who can coach both sides of the ball. (Larry Brown?)

To be honest, he had to make a move like that. I hated the deal from the start, but they weren't going to win with the same team/style that they haven't been winning with for the past 4 years. That style just doesnt' work. So they had to try something different. Unfortunately, they needed a post player that is mobile and a strong interior defender. Shaq is neither. Someone like Rasheed would have fit that system, but I don't know if anyone other than Shaq was available.

The problem is D'Antoni. People need to stop talking about him like he's a genious. He's not a good basketball coach.

Phoenix would have been better off staying pat, keep Marion and when he opts out over the summer (which I assume he will do), they could've signed a guy like Elton Brand instead...

Now they are stuck with Shaq for the next 2 years paying him FORTY MILLION!!!

This is Kerr's "Darko" move...you know how on HoopsHype on the GM profiles it lists each GM's best and worst transaction...well this one will almost certainly go under the worst of Stever Kerr's when they get bounced in the 1st round this year...

I don't think they "had" to do this at all.

They were possibly a convenient David Stern suspension from winning it all last year.

I don't think you are spinning this Mo, but if anyone here tries to justify this deal if they barely make the playoffs or, even worse, miss them altogether, then that's crazy.

They were possibly a convenient David Stern suspension from winning it all last year.
I completely forgot about that. That was such a bullshit call last year. Honestly, who wouldn't have loved a Suns-Cavs finals? Bad call Stern.

I don't think they "had" to do this at all.

They were possibly a convenient David Stern suspension from winning it all last year.

I don't think you are spinning this Mo, but if anyone here tries to justify this deal if they barely make the playoffs or, even worse, miss them altogether, then that's crazy.

I didn't explain my point very well. My point is that the Shaq trade was horrible and stupid. It doesn't make sense with that team. But they weren't going to win anything with the team they had. They tried to win with that style and continued to lose. They needed to change something up. So they added a "dominant" post player in hopes that could possibly work. Even if there was a chance of it working, they had to try. It didn't, just like most of us predicted.

My point is that they wouldn't win with the old style, but they had to try something different. This wasn't it. It was stupid, but at least they tried to change it instead of trying the same broken formula every year.

the move looks awful, but they did have to try something.

yea, they could have stood pat, but then they could have watched andrew bynum score 200 pts in a quick 4 game sweep. thats what it would have been.

are they fucked right now? doesnt look good. but i still believe their chances against the lakers are better now than they were pre trade. and maybe thats all that matters?

i guess they could have S&T'd marion over the summer. i dont know though.

I guess it all depends on how close you think they were to getting to the Finals last year (where they would have beaten Cleveland).

I still think they were robbed, so I can't go along with the blanket "they weren't going to win anyways" rationale.

Taking on Shaq was a bad move both in a basketball sense (he's washed up) and a business sense (that contract is horrid).

If it ends as poorly as it might for this year's Suns, they may have to try and move Snaq again themselves this summer. No easy task, even with a huge expiring contract. Who will want to take the luxury tax hit?

Lastly, anybody else getting this fucking "Cavalier tickets" banner ad at the bottom of this thread? How depressing. Maybe Dan Gilbert found WTF?

shaq refusing duncan's help off the floor was classic. and thats part of it. shaq knows about toughness. the suns problem last year, as much as anything, was that they were the league's little buddy. thats not shaq.

holy cow! you ll see it on sportscenter for years. plus he jumped over the kids.

yes, its true. im a big shaq fan.

he really is superman

would it be legal for shaq to lift nash over his head (kind of like male cheerleaders lifting the tiny female ones at college games) while nash had the ball so he could shoot uncontested 3's? this is a serious question.

this spurs suns game has been another classic. i love this game.

also, i blame hill's inability to a 3 as the biggest suns problem right now.

also, i blame hill's inability to a 3 as the biggest suns problem right now.

Watching Grant this year has pissed me off. The Pistons would be so much better with Grant coming off the bench instead of Jarvis it's not even funny. He is the exact kind of player we need. A veteran guy who will come in and score efficiently.

5 in a row for the suns. anyone who didnt like this trade for the suns having second thoughts?

I'm not having second thoughts, I still don't like the trade. Its looking like its not completely terrible like everyone thought, but it still wasn't the best.

Waiting until the playoffs. Until then, no second thoughts.

I'm expecting "gimpy Shaq" come playoff time... just a hunch.

I disapprove of this deal from a Suns perspective and as a Heat hater.

The Heat were pretty much doomed being saddled with Shaq's huge contract and declining skills. Steve Kerr just bailed them out, big time.

The Suns with Marion > The Suns with Shaq

WTF is Kerr thinking?

D-WADE certainly lives a charmed life.

Angrily,

Glenn


History is not going to look back fondly on this trade.

Remember, the Suns were in 1st place when they made this deal, and now, if they miss the playoffs altogether?

Steve Kerr might as well move to Honduras.



This trade kilt the Suns.

this deal is great for phx.

BUBBLES AGREES.

Maybe this is why b-diddy doesn't post with us anymore?

Hey, they're better than Boston, at least.