I'm not seeing the big deal about him, personally.

Seems like he could be a solid player, but his jumper looks broke, he turns it over a bunch, and he gets about half of his shots swatted when he takes it at the rim.

And yes, I know that he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes.

I'm wondering if you guys are sold, not sold or if the jury is still out on Stuckey.

Is he a future SUPERSTAR, as we have been promised?

I like the kid a lot. His jumper will come, and his mistakes will go down. He is still in the first 15 games of his career. The thing that sticks out the most with him is his defense is already solid, and he can get by anyone with his first step. What he needs to learn is how not to get blocked by the second and third line of defenders.

SUPERSTAR is way premature, but the one thing that he brings that no one else on the Pistons can do is blow by guys...breaking downn the defense.

Just mho, but like I said the other night in the game thread, I'd already rather have Stuckey up top with the clock ticking down than CBill during regular season games. He can bust by a guy and dish, or go to the hole for some hoop and harm.

That aspect of his game is why I'm pumped about having him.

I agree that it's nice to have another player on the team (along with Max) that realizes that there is another way to score besides shooting from the perimeter.

hes phenomenal. he creates so much space just because hes fast. i like him a ton. him playing like crap isnt too surprising, we're asking alot of him by converting him into a point guard.

Been souring on his the past couple weeks. Like you said Glenn, that midrange game he was famed for coming out of college looks like junk. Gotta hit that shot to play in this league.

I'm still up in the air on him. He's shown flashes of being a solid player, but he's shown a lot of flaws too. He's definitely got to get more playing time before we can make any true assessments on him. Are these real flaws or is he just a rookie that hasn't played in a long time? Will his jumper come around, and will he be willing to put in the work to make it great?

Haven't seen him enough/Not comfortable making an early decision about him yet.

I knew I shouldn't have put that third, cop-out option into the poll.

Looks like I Tahoe'd it.

I should never assume that y'all would take a firm position.

"Sold" or "not sold" should have been it.

What do you expect from a ballboy with only 17 posts?

Glenn, do you think he's better than Flip?

Mailman - syndicate. Nice avatar, haha.

Thanks!

"Better" how?

Nice avatar, lol

Do you think he's a better player than Flip?

Do you think he's a better player than Flip?

Yes

Just thought I'd save us all the time.

Question answered.

Thanks for the new title Glenn! I will wear it with honor.

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/53011983.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CE97C268BC94420312 A40A659CEC4C8CB6

Do you think he's a better player than Flip?

I'd say they are pretty comparable, but Flip does a better job finishing, his jumper is a bit more consistent (still not very good), and has experience on his side.

Stuckey should be better than Flip in a season or two, for sure.

Stuckey passes.

Stuckey's jumper does look like shit.

Don't be so sure about that one. It hasn't looked that hot from what I've seen. Granted, it hasn't looked as bad as Flip's.

I've seen Flip make a jumper.

I swear I have!

Have you been visiting imagination land?

And just because someone will no doubt take the bait...

Per 48's


Flip
19.8 pts
5.0 reb
8.9 asst
1.8 stl
4.3 to
2.1 asst/to
2.6 pf

41.0% fg
22.2% 3fg
59.5% ft
43.2% afg


Stuckey
15.6 pts
4.8 reb
7.2 asst
3.6 stl
3.4 to
2.1 asst/to
6.1 pf

35.2% fg
25.0% 3fg
88.5% ft
35.9% afg

Flip wasn't even hitting 60% of this FT's? That's pathetic

Flip wasn't even hitting 60% of this FT's? That's pathetic

I think the bigger concern is that the WTF-proclaimed "iso chucker" Flip Murray is averaging more assists per 48 than our future PG in training.

WELL, let's just bench Billups then!

Comparing stats for a 13 game rook is not relevant... especially a PG learning the pro game coming off an injury.

Comparing stats for a 13 game rook is not relevant... especially a PG learning the pro game coming off an injury.

I somewhat agree, but if we are assessing him "to date" as the thread title implies, and if we are comparing apples to apples, as a per 48 min stat does, that's about all we have to work with.

Seriously, let's bench Chauncey.

And just because someone will no doubt take the bait...

Per 48's


None of the stats you posted displays the true chucker that Ronald Flip Murray was (and I say was because he'll never play for the pistons again, thank god).

His 19.3 FGA per 48 minutes are still second highest on the team (to Rip's 20.8.....to put this in perspective chauncey is at 16.2 and stuckey is at 14.9).

Hayes (18.1), Rasheed (17.4), are higher than Stuckey. Tayshaun "I don't shoot" prince is even higher at 16.3. Walter Hermann is at 15.5 for christ's sake!)

Flip Murray got assists because he always had the ball and would only pass as a last resort to a guy that was forced to shoot with the shot clock running down.

All you have to do is watch these games and you'll realize that stuckey isn't nearly the unselfish, untalented, waste of a professional basketball roster spot that Flip Murray is.

Yes, Stuckey's percentages are low (so are flips!) but he's a rookie that's learning to play the most challenging position to play in the NBA, a position he's never played in his basketball past (he's only been a shooting guard) while trying to overcome an injury. Tough task.

If Stuckey is still playing this bad at age 28 in his 6th NBA season then I'll conclude that he's the same player as Ronald Murray (which is god awful)

All Flip Murray accomplishes for me is to further prove my theory that all men named Flip are really dumb humans.

Look what you've done to yargs Glenn. This whole thread should be in green.

Glenn's reaction to yargs' post:

http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-2/crybaby.jpg

How many of those guys that you mentioned were signed by the Pistons to come in and score off the bench?

Like it or not, that's what Murray is paid to do. It's the same reason that Jarvis' is high as well.

I do indeed have higher hopes for Stuckey, but I'm still afraid that we've been sold a bill of goods with all the hype, based on what I've seen.

Also, it was repeatedly stated by the organization (and their mouthpieces) that Stuckey is indeed a PG, and that he played it extensively in college. So we can't have it both ways, either we were misled/lied to, or he's not playing the PG position for the first time.

David Thorpe's Rookie Ratings, just revised
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-080116&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dthorpe_ david%26page%3dRookies-080116%26campaign%3drss%26source%3dNBAHeadlines


Like most rookies, Rodney Stuckey has to learn what a good shot is. And isn't. Step-back jumpers with 10 seconds on the shot clock on your first offensive possession in the game? That is the definition of a bad shot.

Afflalo is at #20, and Stuckey at #25.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rookies/rankings?

Comparison I'm surprised I've not heard anyone try to make yet:

Stuckey is Lindsey Hunter to Aaron Afflalo's Allan Houston.

probably because they're both terrible comparisons.

Those players couldn't be any more different.

I'm not seeing the big deal about him, personally.
A capable scorer and solid passer off the bench is a big enough deal since we've never had that filling in for billups. Not a major deal though.


Seems like he could be a solid player, but his jumper looks broke, he turns it over a bunch, and he gets about half of his shots swatted when he takes it at the rim.
#1)A consistently solid player would be nice. I remember thinking the same thing about billups before he got here.
#2.)His jumper looked fine in most games before last game. Of course last game he removed the pads on his hand and it seems to have had an effect on his shot. Might have to get back adjusted to playing w/o it now.
#3) The swats have cut down over the past few games and he's being a little more creative as he was in the Raptor game avoiding Bosh's shot block attempt for a 3 point play.. I remember Wade hand to pull up for mid range jumpers in his first year because he was in danger of getting swatted more himself. Then he learned the lean sideways fall down courageous victory move. Stuckey will also have to adjust. Its not like with Flap[smilie=heatsmiley2: Murray who actually believes he won't get swatted and has no desire to improve his shot chances.


And yes, I know that he's a rookie and rookies make mistakes.

I'm wondering if you guys are sold, not sold or if the jury is still out on Stuckey.

Is he a future SUPERSTAR, as we have been promised ~who promised this nonsense??
I think he's probably a future star. Please remove the super though. The Jury is also still out though. He has adjustments to make. One thing on his side is that both Flip Saunders and Joe Dumars love him(that doesnt happen much for our bench guys), so he will get some real development chances I think. I mean have you ever heard about Flip clearing minutes for any young bench player to get acclimated?

Yes, Stuckey's percentages are low (so are flips!) but he's a rookie that's learning to play the most challenging position to play in the NBA, a position he's never played in his basketball past (he's only been a shooting guard) while trying to overcome an injury. Tough task.
Not true but i agree with everything else. Stuckey is a PG, he passes like one two. The issue is becoming a true NBA PG. Same was the issue for Billups coming into the league. .

I'm sold. I don't remember ever being promised a superstar. He can be a success well short of that.

For a rookie that's had what, two practices with the team? Less than 20 games? I think he's showing a lot of poise out there. There are just things he's going to have to learn on the job and watching him get called for a lot of fouls and getting his drives crushed by the defense will just be part of the learning curve.

Flip and Joe certainly seem to be committed to doing everything possible to develop him. Regular playing time, more time with the starters. The kid has got as good an attitude as you could hope for and showed some mental fortitude in the way he handled the injury situation.

If he stays healthy, I think that by april he'll be a better option than Flip M.

even if stucky were a pg in college (i have virtually no idea, never heard of him before we talked about drafting him), most incoming pg's take time to develop.

look at jay william's rookie year for example. he was about as nba ready as it gets, and he wasnt exactly a world beater... chris pauls truly are the exception.

the comparison to wade is very apt. look at his rookie year. he didnt really emerge as a phenom til the 2nd half of the year. i suspect maybe by the end of this year, or going into next year, its going to get very tough to keep him off the court.

and i really dont get the flip comparison. from what ive seen, stucky plays a ton without the ball (kind of like he's learning both guard spots, awfully tough to do for a rookie). RS looks to me like Joe's best pick ever, which is saying something.

Also, it was repeatedly stated by the organization (and their mouthpieces) that Stuckey is indeed a PG, and that he played it extensively in college. So we can't have it both ways, either we were misled/lied to, or he's not playing the PG position for the first time.


BTW, I'm not completely sold on Stuckey. I just think he's better than Flip Murray (then again, I'd rather play 4 on 5 than have Flip Murray in the lineup he's that much of a detriment) In fact I believe I made a statement that I wanted no part of stuckey come draft day. I don't like "tweener" guards that are best at getting to the bucket but don't have the hops to finish like a d-wade. I also don't like guys that play for mid-major schools and are only good enough to lead them to .500 records.

With that being said, he's quicker off the dribble than I thought and I'm willing to give him a chance. Then again, I'm not a big believer in Joe Dumars' ability to draft quality players anymore. It can't always be the coaches fault for not playing young guys. Maybe these young guys aren't good enough.

And we constantly get spoonfed misinformation by this organization such as when they try to tell us we're legit championship contenders with a bad coach and pretty good but not great players. If they are saying we are contenders then we as fans have the right to be critical. If they are saying we are playing for the future then I may decide to think differently.

And Flip Murray can't score, he just shoots a lot. Javis Hayes is slowly moving into this territory as well.

I'm sold. I don't remember ever being promised a superstar. He can be a success well short of that.


i ment to say this too. he doesnt have to be a "superstar" to be a success. i suspect he'll make it to an allstar game at some point, though.

pros:

lightning quick
tall for position
caveman length arms
already leading team in steals per game

cons
non i can see that arent correctable

dont worry, this was an A+ pick by joe.

I wish we could go back and see what half of you were saying about Tayshaun after 3 weeks played...

I wish we could go back and see what half of you were saying about Tayshaun after 3 weeks played...
I'm a little vague on that. As I recall, Prince wasn't hyped nearly as much as Stuckey but then the stakes were a lot lower too, the pistons weren't expected to make a ton of noise at the time.

I do remember that Prince was a bit wobbly as a rookie. He got some run in the early part of the season but after 30 games or so Carlisle pretty much threw him on the shelf and forgot about him all season until they were down 3-1 against Orlando.

Flip and Joe certainly seem to be committed to doing everything possible to develop him.
And to me thats the defining factor. They weren't even this dedicated to Darko, which says something.

flashes of good things (quick first step, ability to absorb contact, gets steals, sweet passes), but there are plenty of rookie-type mistakes. enough mistakes to make me hold my judgement a little longer. i really wish he had the luxury of playing the entire season up to this point.

i think Stuckey's got it tough because he's trying to learn FlipS's offensive plays. most of the time i see Stuckey take it himself, is after the first few options have broken down. i'd like to see Stuckey given the green light to find his shot a little more. that will lead to defenses collapsing on him and he can find open guys.

i'd really, really, really, really, really like Stuckey to run more pick and roll plays. Unlike Chauncey, Stuckey seems to get rid of the ball quicker on the P/R, leading to open guys. Chauncey isn't a real great P/R PG, and i think our team would benefit from running the P/R play more often.

flip called stuckey the best pick n roll guard on our roster. i assumed he met defensively, but maybe offensively?

ill admit, ive only seen stuckey play a few minutes, but im not backing off my claims. dude is legit.

I think that Stuckey is still getting used to playing in the NBA. He seems to get a lot of shots blocked, and I think that's because in college he was able to get those shots off.

Stuckey seems poised and unselfish, with the ability to run the team. Dumars and Saunders are very high on him, so he will continue to see 15 to 25 minutes a night for the next couple of months, at least. He's a streaky shooter who at times makes poor decisions. He seems solid defensively, although not as good as Afflalo.

However, if Stuckey doesn't improve on his weaknesses over the course of this season, Hunter will be getting the backup G minutes. I hope that doesn't happen (I like Hunter as a spot player), but I definitely could see it.

i would count on hunter playing in the playoffs, probably significant minutes on many nights.

Most likely, for his defense, depending on the matchup. I'd love to see Afflalo step up and take over that defensive stopper role, and if he can't manage to do it this year I have faith in him doing it sometime next year. He just seems to have the right mentality to be that type of player. Pick what you're best at (defense), make an art of it, and just make sure you don't have any significant flaws, which he doesn't seem to other than rookie mistakes.

There is one x-factor that could still keep Affalo back in the mix. More blowouts.

Most likely, for his defense, depending on the matchup. I'd love to see Afflalo step up and take over that defensive stopper role, and if he can't manage to do it this year I have faith in him doing it sometime next year. He just seems to have the right mentality to be that type of player. Pick what you're best at (defense), make an art of it, and just make sure you don't have any significant flaws, which he doesn't seem to other than rookie mistakes.
I agree with that, his time just isn't this year. When you look at what they need and what they have right now, Afflalo is the odd man out. If Stuckey develops as hoped, he brings something off the bench that Flip M and Hunter don't. If Afflalo continues at a reasonable pace of development this year he is Hunter with less experience and rookie mistakes.

With limited minutes to hand out it makes more sense to spend them on Stuckey than Afflalo. Next year, if both players are still around, Stuckey will be more established and force feeding minutes to him will be less of a priority and somebody like Afflalo can get more run. Especially if Hunter is in a suit full time.

His potential is obvious. He has an uncanny mix of Speed and Strength. He is also extremely rough around the edges. I really don't think his jumper is as bad as it has looked at times, but he needs a boost of confidence (bench him against SA probably didn't help). He looks tentative in shooting the ball at times. Like he thinks about it for a second before he lets it go, and it hurts his rhythm.

And I still believe when he's on the floor the team looks a lot better when the offense is kept simple (mostly P&Rs). When he gets in the lane early in the clock, he gets high percentage looks for himself or his teammates.

Hunter and next year should not be mentioned together, unless speaking of his move to the front office. JMHO.

How many of those guys that you mentioned were signed by the Pistons to come in and score off the bench?

Like it or not, that's what Murray is paid to do. It's the same reason that Jarvis' is high as well.

I do indeed have higher hopes for Stuckey, but I'm still afraid that we've been sold a bill of goods with all the hype, based on what I've seen.

Well, Ginobili (probably the best bench scorer in the NBA) only averages 1 more shot per 48 than Flip and they are in the same role. Barbosa averages about a shot and a half more than Flip.

The difference is that both of those players know how to shoot, and pass for that matter.

Well, Ginobili (probably the best bench scorer in the NBA) only averages 1 more shot per 48 than Flip and they are in the same role. Barbosa averages about a shot and a half more than Flip.

The difference is that both of those players know how to shoot, and pass for that matter.


I think they also make more money.

Herm wins.

I think they also make more money.

He's cheap because he sucks. He doesn't suck because he's cheap.

chris wins.

Chris made a comparison between Ginobili, Barbosa and Flip Murray.

Herm pointed out that it is flawed to expect similar production to what Ginobili and Barbosa give you to a guy that was signed with the BAE.

Murray makes $1.9m, so comparing his performance to guys that make $9m and nearly $6m is ridiculous.

You get what you pay for.

He's cheap because he sucks. He doesn't suck because he's cheap.


He's on our team because he's cheap. He's cheap because he sucks. Manu and Barbosa were not available to be backup guards on our team.

But I could probably list off 100 guards making similar or less money that are better than Flip. You can't tell me he was all that was available. If we hadn't wasted picks on Cleaves, White, Darko and Delfino then maybe we would have had a decent bench scorer long ago. Sure, a good % thought those were good picks at one time, but the fact remains they never panned out. And i'm not even counting the 2nd rounders. So don't tell me that Flip was simply a product of no availability. We wouldn't have been desperate if we didn't draft so many busts.

Yes, I like Prince and Max, but otherwise our drafts have been junk. (the jury is still out on Amir, Stuckey and AA).

UMMM MEMO?

But I could probably list off 100 guards making similar or less money

Not to go census geek on you but you might have to include mall security and parking lot attendants to get that many guards.

Nice one, gee. I do get the point he was trying to make though. There are a ton of guys that can do pretty much what Flip does or more for the same amount.

And seriously, Chris, how can you forget those amazing second rounders like Glyniadakis and Blalock and our undrafted hero DUPREE!

Who's mentoring Stuckey right now?

But I could probably list off 100 guards making similar or less money that are better than Flip.

The hell. Who, Von Wafer? You're talking guys not on rookie deals? Nuts, that's just blind hate. Look, he's junk, but he's got a vet's min. contract. Those guys don't play, that is the expectation, and Flip has exceeded that on a contending team.

And WTF Mateen and White? That was a whole team ago. Not one guy from when they were drafted is here besides Hunter who's been dealt twice. We f-ing traded them for JB and picks who ain't even here. And what does that have to do with shit anyway, if those guys had paid off they'd be on big deals and we wouldn't have someone/thing else (or them).

When you have 5 highly paid starters it's impossible to invest in the bench, you hope to catch a break, and having a guy who can run out and get you a sloppy 20 points is a gift, not a fucking curse. 100 guys, that's fucking faggotry.

Faggotry: best word ever.

I agree that Flip Murray is a true blessing.

:mccosky:


Stuckey has troubles adjusting to the point
Injury has left the rookie behind in NBA development, but it isn't quitting time just yet.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Pistons knew there would be plenty of dark days during the process of acclimating rookie Rodney Stuckey to the rigors of playing point guard in the NBA.

"With him getting hurt and not having practice time, we knew we would go through this," coach Flip Saunders said. "But there is no other way. You can't just throw away his rookie year because he doesn't have it right now."

Seeing an assortment of zones and traps, Stuckey has been rendered tentative and uncomfortable over the past couple of weeks. In the last seven games, including the loss Monday, he made more turnovers (7) than baskets (6). He has made just six of his last 23 shots.

Saunders has tried to walk the line between allowing the rookie to play over his mistakes and shattering his confidence, which is partly why he has reduced Stuckey's playing time the last three games.

On Monday, Saunders used Arron Afflalo before Stuckey. Stuckey still played 13 minutes, and despite two early turnovers in a rough second quarter, he settled down in the second half, contributing a driving layup and an assist in the fourth quarter.

"I think he's strong enough as a person to fight through it," Saunders said. "All he needs is one or two breakout games and his confidence will come back."

Stuckey has been leaning hard on his veteran teammates, especially veteran Lindsey Hunter.

"We need to help him more when he's on the court," Hunter said. "We can't have him out there depending on other guys to put him in the right position. We have to put some calls in his head and give him some plays where he can be aggressive and create off of so he won't be tentative. He can't be on the court second-guessing everything."

Assistant coach Terry Porter, a former All-NBA point guard, said Stuckey's biggest adjustment is learning when and how to attack against a zone.

"He was having some success and then teams made an adjustment to him and he's struggled," Porter said. "He has to find out how he can attack out of a zone set. It's more difficult, but he just has to keep believing in himself and continue to be aggressive when he has his opportunities."

Porter said Stuckey will learn to find creases in zone defenses, just like he does against man-to-man defenses.

"He will learn once you swing the ball and get the zone moving, there will be creases he can attack," Porter said.

"He's got a lot of vets talking to him and that's going to help the learning curve."

And WTF Mateen and White? That was a whole team ago. Not one guy from when they were drafted is here besides Hunter who's been dealt twice. We f-ing traded them for JB and picks who ain't even here. And what does that have to do with shit anyway, if those guys had paid off they'd be on big deals and we wouldn't have someone/thing else (or them).

When you have 5 highly paid starters it's impossible to invest in the bench, you hope to catch a break, and having a guy who can run out and get you a sloppy 20 points is a gift, not a fucking curse. 100 guys, that's fucking faggotry.

That's the point. We've had a good first round pick and a good 2nd round pick (that isn't here because we couldnt' afford him) and that's it. I agree, you can't go out and sign Barbosa and Manu. But guess what, SA didn't go out and sign him either. The Suns didn't go out and sign Barbosa either (they traded for him on draft day I believe). That's my point. If we had drafted depth correctly then we wouldn't have to keep bringing guys in off the scrap heap.

I'm not trying to bag on Joe for being a bad GM. I just can't give him a free pass on all the bad draft picks. If even one of them had panned out the Pistons might be in the same breath as the Patriots in dynasty talks.

-we blew the White pick when most people I know wanted Joe Johnson or RJ
-we blew Cleaves when most people knew Mo Pete was the better pro (not sure who we would have taken)
-we blew Darko and didn't even work out Melo or Bosh

yes, we did good with Prince and Max. The problem is that we got zero depth outside them. Great teams in a cap system have to be able to develop their own depth. It's why the Wings keep winning, it's why the Spurs keep winning, it's why the Patriots keep winning.

We're good enough to keep winning in a weak east, but we could be dominant. And Flip Murray is just another example of us grasping at straws.

I sure hope Stuckey is the answer off the bench, or we'll be grasping again pretty soon.

-we blew Darko and didn't even work out Melo or Bosh



I seem to recall that Bosh came and worked out for Joe even though they told him they were picking Darko.

I might be wrong, though, getting old.

Perhaps you are right. We did not work out Melo and we did not work out Wade either I think. At any rate, the next 3 players are all all stars. I wasn't a Melo fan then, and I'm still not. I just hate that we passed on Bosh. Oh well.

Anyway, we should get back to Stuckey talk.

lol

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6862/suckeyos3.jpg

Does anyone think it would be benefical to send Stuckey to Ft. Wayne to let him build up some confidence?

Can't do that with "Murray".

I think it would have helped him right after he got back from the injury. Get himself into playing shape down there. Its probably too late for that now though. It would probably hurt his confidence.

Perhaps you are right. We did not work out Melo and we did not work out Wade either I think. At any rate, the next 3 players are all all stars. I wasn't a Melo fan then, and I'm still not. I just hate that we passed on Bosh. Oh well.

Anyway, we should get back to Stuckey talk.

I think it was more they blew us off because it was assumed we were taking Darko. Semantics, I know.

I think it would have helped him right after he got back from the injury. Get himself into playing shape down there. Its probably too late for that now though. It would probably hurt his confidence.

I agree. Now it would be seen as a move motivated by hm playing poorly, which is a confidence downer. You could have done it before to "take the pressure off" of him and let him get into game shape.

I seem to recall that Bosh came and worked out for Joe even though they told him they were picking Darko.
Yup. It was hearing about Bosh' wanting to try out for us despite long odds that made me keen on drafting him.

Stuck averaging 10 points per game on 57% shooting over the last 7. I like the development. Seems as though he's not forcing it as much these days. 22 assists and only 5 turnovers during the same stretch as well.

Seems as though he's not forcing it as much these days.


Seems to me guy just hits crazy-ass shots. Keep it up.

Ok, I am now comfortable.

This guy is awesome.

It looks like Stuc is developing nicely, and with any luck it doesn't have anything to do with Flip Saunders' input.

SWAMI WHY DID YOU HAVE TO GO AND BRING FLIP INTO THIS?

one minor observation: stuckey's starting to mimic tayshaun's annoying habit of putting his hands up to the refs whenever he feels he's been fouled.

I hate that. Quit crying and play the game. Get your ass back on defense and shut your mouth. I hate it when other teams do it and I hate it when we do it. Tay does it nearly every time he drives the lane and doesn't get an easy dunk.

^ Didn't get laid last night?

Another fine thread by Glenn ^_^

Time for another assessment from the hopefuls...

Piss on him.

I still hold faith, still a rookie scoring point guard who is making a pretty good effort to distribute first. I ain't mad about it.

Stuckey has been a little disappointing in my eyes. If I had to give him a grade it owuld be a C-. The reason that I say this is that he really looks to shoot first and rarely puts up nice assist numbers. If he was brought in as a SG this wouldn't be a problem but we need him to be our back up PG. I still see a lot of potential in him and think he was a good pick but wish that he made better decisions with the ball. I am hoping that this will come with experience. His defense is a little mediocre but this again will improve with experience.

If you guys could have anyone drafted after him instead, would you trade him in, and if so, for whom?

If you guys could have anyone drafted after him instead, would you trade him in, and if so, for whom?

Sean Williams. Then deal Max or Amir for vet guard help.

What about Splitter?

Nope.

What about Splitter?
no. Looking for help now.

I wonder if Al Thornton dropped to us, we wouldve drafted him ahead of Stuckey.

Honestly, Stuckey's going to be a no one in the playoffs right at this rate. Al would've easily gave us 10 pts a night..or maybe even THADDEUS wouldve given us more consisten production..

My prediction: Stuckey doesn't see the floor much in the playoffs, scores about 20-25 a game with 6 assists per game in the summer league and restores faith before coming back looking like the same player he was this year.

You've got to remember he was the 15th overall pick, we're going to have some growing pains with someone taken around that spot. They're either going to come in ready to play in this league with little to no upside or they're going to come in and making mistakes but have the potential to eventually be something good in the league if they work hard.

What I'm really surprised about is how well AA has done for us this season. Did anyone expect that kind of production from a guy picked where he was?

I wonder if Al Thornton dropped to us, ..
He'd be riding the pine in favor of theo. [smilie=heatsmiley2:

I think stuckey gets minutes. Regardless of his tayshaun moment of differing too much, he's a very solid ball handler and and is capable enough to keep the leads as long as we keep another semi-ball handler on the court with him. He seems to play much better when we run(as does Amir). Might be nice to push the ball up the court a lil more.

As much as I am disappointed in a lot of what I have seen from Stuckey, at least we can say, at this point, that there aren't 5 or 20 other guys that we would have rather drafted instead.

That's a positive.

He's solid for a 15th pick. What more could you expect? Our expectations got enlarged a bit when everyone kept talking about how "he'd go so much higher if there were a redo" and "he's really going to be an amazing player". Well, either way, he was the 15th pick in the draft, came out of a very small school (so he needed time to adjust), and he missed a big chunk of time because of injury to start the season. I think if he hadn't missed that time he'd be doing a bit better.

I'm surprised there are so many people here that have given up on Stuckey. He's a rookie who missed the first quarter of the season! You're absolutely right that he makes dumb, ROOKIE decisions from time to time. What did you want? Someone to come in and take Chauncey's minutes right away?

Maybe I'm being too easy on him, but I think he's been solid. He is young, quick as hell, but needs help on his basketball IQ. He's converting to PG, a position he's never played before this year. That's the toughest position to learn. There's a current Piston who took 5 years to learn the NBA PG position. Give it more than 50 games to decide that he wasn't worth the pick.

I'm surprised there are so many people here that have given up on Stuckey. He's a rookie who missed the first quarter of the season! You're absolutely right that he makes dumb, ROOKIE decisions from time to time. What did you want? Someone to come in and take Chauncey's minutes right away?

Maybe I'm being too easy on him, but I think he's been solid. He is young, quick as hell, but needs help on his basketball IQ. He's converting to PG, a position he's never played before this year. That's the toughest position to learn. There's a current Piston who took 5 years to learn the NBA PG position. Give it more than 50 games to decide that he wasn't worth the pick.

:motown owns:

"I agree with MoTown."

I'm pretty happy with what I've seen so far. It takes a while for most PG's to adjust to the NBA, and he wasn't even a true PG in college. I think he's coming along nicely.

I'm pretty happy with what I've seen so far. It takes a while for most PG's to adjust to the NBA, and he wasn't even a true PG in college. I think he's coming along nicely.
I agree, i think he sees the floor well and most of where he messes up has more to do with youth than talent. If he keeps shooting and making his jumper, he'll get more accomplished offensively overall. I also think he'll be a top ten theft artist in a season or two and as long as Hunter is around to help his on the ball defense will improve(he already moves his feet very well and has the speed to stay in front of alot of PG's in this league).

He also has good size and would benifit from some post up tips from Billups.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=dumarjo01&y1=1986&p2=stuckro01&y2=2008

The FG% is the only disturbing part IMO. But, he's shot the ball well lately in all the game I've seen. He's shot %49 in March.

Shoulda drafted Carmelo

im thrilled with stuckey. big, strong, and fast. i can work with that.

so what if his shooting is fairly lousy so far? that will come. he doesnt run the offense too well either, but then again he occassionally makes some real nice passes. defense some times he gets picked on, other times he makes the play.

these are growing pains rookies go through, made more noticeable because we play allstar calibre players on the court about 70% of the time, or more, for the last 4 years or so.

ill take the physical specimen any day of the week. he doesnt have one flaw that he isnt capable of improving upon, and thats what matters.

He's the man.

He's been very solid considering all of the factors.

1. He's a rookie on a veteran team that historically doesn't play rookies.
2. He's learning a new position (The toughest in the game).
3. He's coming off the injury.

You have to realize that he's not going to put up the numbers that he would otherwise (on a shitty team) with this group. The ball just isn't in his hands enough. He may be our PG, but his assist numbers will automatically be knocked down due to the fact that almost all of Flip's sets with a rook running the point call for the "stand-in" PG to bring the ball up and hand it off to Rip or Tayshaun. Flip has an inherent lack of trust that maybe a rook could get us some better scoring opportunities on occasion than Rip and Tayshaun going one-on-one on the wings for 20 footers.

We won't see the real Rodney until Joe blows this team up I'm afraid. Until then, this version is a solid backup.

I haven't seen one thing besides his ability to rebound his own misses that I would say sets him apart. Those PHO jumpers were wide open. Wide. I mean, hey, great, gotta get those, but I would expect Drew Gooden to hit those, let alone my scoring combo guard. That teams are laying off him, inviting him to shoot, is not a good thing.

I don't know who was hyping him to be a superstar, by the way.

The Frenchman?

That teams are laying off him, inviting him to shoot, is not a good thing.
Actually I think it is, since it reflects on how much they can't keep him out the paint. He keeps hitting them then they have to cover the kid giving him more chances to blow by his defender. Again I just want him to think mid range pull up instead of going all the way as much as he does.

Thorpe's rookie rankings: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/rookies/rankings
Stucko is #17

Hollinger's Rookie PER leaders: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=rookies&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3drookies%26seasonType%3d2
Stucko is #12

Hopefully the more he plays the more he moves up that list. Once we lock up the conference and the 2nd seed (officially), we should start giving the young guys a little extra burn before the playoffs.

Kstat reports more love for Stuckey from Mark Jackson.

The sky is the limit for him.

Jackson brought up an important point that a lot of people overlooked.

Rodney Stuckey went from a pure scorer to a pure point guard in back to back games.

20 year old guards are not supposed to be able to be that versatile.

Stuckey simply amazes me sometimes. It's nice to know we're set at PG for years to come.

We can probably close the poll. This is no longer up for debate.

Through 3 games in april, stuckey's averaging 19 points a game, plus 5 assists and 2 steals on %51 shooting.

i think if he didnt get injured, and landed on a team where he could have been starting, those numbers (with a lower shooting %) might be his avg on the year, or atleast 2nd half.

a big step in his development is gonna be when he stops defering and realizes that he is the man stuckey.

I don't know who was hyping him to be a superstar, by the way.


Not anyone?
^_^

Nyi6Wr0ae3o


Stuckey vid about his rise to the nba.

Whoever did that video was much more concerned about how the graphics looked instead of showing Stuckey.

There were like 8 pictures of Stuckey in that 7 minute video.

He's looked really good, but he won't be playing against backups and NBDL players in the playoffs. Let's hold off on crowning him as the difference maker in our playoff run.

Thank you for bringing this back to Earth Glenn.

He's looked really good, but he won't be playing against backups and NBDL players in the playoffs.


Well, I suppose he will be playing against backups in the playoffs, yes? Being a bench player and all?

Trouble is, these bench guys are going to be TJ Ford, Carlos Arroyo, Boobie, Alien, and then someone from the West like Farmar.

I got pwnt.

I need some caffeine.

Trouble is, these bench guys are going to be TJ Ford, Carlos Arroyo, Boobie, Alien, and then someone from the West like Farmar.


He certainly had no trouble against Boobie earlier this season, and Boobie had a lot of trouble staying in front of Stuckey.

I honestly believe he'll be taking on the leagues best by the middle of next season. I bet he jobs CBill of the dribble in practice.

Trade CBill for a Center in the offseason if we don't win it all. j/k.

Thank you for bringing this back to Earth Glenn.

Fuck you, Fuck Glenn, Fuck the Earth and Al Gore, Rodney Stuckey is going to set the world on fire.

I've been having a big debate with two Celtics fans (both from here) on whether Rondo can guard him.

Fuck you, Fuck Glenn, Fuck the Earth and Al Gore, Rodney Stuckey is going to set the world on fire.

Nice. :yingyang:

I've been having a big debate with two Celtics fans (both from here) on whether Rondo can guard him.
No, its not a legit debate at all. The only leg they have to stand on is whether stuckey can stay in front of rondo.

Anybody feel any differently?

I still feel the same way - there aren't a whole lot of people in the NBA that can get through the lane and to the basket better than him. However, he still cannot finish to save his life. I think he's being misused from time to time, and Glenn might be right that he would be better suited to play a SG/combo guard position. He's developed a nice jump shot, but it seems like he's not sure when he's supposed to use it. He makes some mistakes and slows things down more than he should.

That's my brief synopsis.

I officially hate watching Ronald "Flip" Stuckey play basketball.

Good thing we have like 3 other shooting guards then.

But he still plays.

You liked Flip. There seems to be a double standard.

Flip was a hired gun and he was just doing the job that he was brought in to do.

And he could finish at the rim.

And Stuckey doesn't hold the ball for 18 seconds every possession.

Hey, if you guys are enjoying watching Stuckey play, more power to ya.

No need to attack Flip just because Stuckey is weaksauce.

The Flip Murray persecution never ends.

I officially hate watching Ronald "Flip" Stuckey play basketball.

I'm pretty sure you're the one who brought up the comparison. So don't play that game.

Not to mention your Avatar might be a little clue as well.

I agree that I draw the comparison in their style of play and skill sets, but is the logical response to a critique of Stuckey a shot at Flip Murray?

Absolutely. You brought up a critique of Stuckey's game by comparing him to Murray. You have been a known supporter of Murray, but you dislike Stuckey for very similar reasons. I then stated that Stuckey doesn't do the things that drove me insane about Murray, and you consider that blindly attacking Flip? So we're not allowed to mention Flip when defending Stuckey?

The exchange didn't go like this:

Glenn: "I can't stand the way Stuckey can't finish."
Fool and MoTown: "Flip Murray sucks."

Well I've hinted at this several times, but I don't really like Flip Murray, it's kind of a joke. I like defending Flip Murray because he was a scapegoat and the object of unfair criticism, IMO. The Pistons got exactly what they should have been expecting from him, at a bargain price.

I don't see Stuckey living up to expectations, and he largely gets a free pass, so there's the difference, IMO.

edit - moved the last 10-11 posts here from the Suns OGT to keep this discussion together.

Well, Stuckey has like 1/2 a year of NBA experience and never really played PG in college. Murray had a lot more experience. If Stuckey is still like this in 5 years then you can say "I told you so"

If anyone is not living up to the expectations its Amir. Perhaps we should change the analogy to Amir and Stuckey not Flip and Stuckey, since you like to play both sides of the Flip fence.

Maybe the expectations of Amir are a bit high. Remember, he was a very late second round draft pick.

He looks like he should try baseball.

Maybe the expectations of Amir are a bit high. Remember, he was a very late second round draft pick.

...that Joe Dumars made to sound like a god.

Stuck is going to be fine. Give him some time.

Darko is going to be fine. Give him some time.

Really? You want to equate Stuckey's difficulties to Darko's?

Not exactly (nice try!), but I'll equate the "don't worry, everything's going to be fine" sentiment, though.

Maybe Stuck isn't quite ready to run the point, score by driving, score with jumpers, play D, etc. Some can do that right away, others it takes a lil time.

Stuck has shown signs of being able to do all those things. iirc, Darko didn't even see the floor til year 3?? Or did he get some cigar time in year 1 and 2?

Stuck is playing when the game is on the line and not doing terribly. He might not be living up to some peeps expectations but he'll be continue to improve. He just needs some more time.

Not exactly (nice try!), but I'll equate the "don't worry, everything's going to be fine" sentiment, though.

What "nice try"? You are the one who made the ambiguous statement.

Darko and Stuck are totally different. Their attitudes were night and day. If I were to compare Stuck to any Joe D draft pick it would be Max. Both have shown they can contribute off the bench, but may or may not ever make the leap to full time starter. Both are tweeners of sorts but give %100 out there.

As far as Amir, I agree that one is on Joe. We didn't set the bar high, Joe did.

He's playing how I expected right now, I expect him to do better than this as the season goes on, and that's better than I expected when we picked him, so I'm fine with this.

Darko and Stuck are totally different. Their attitudes were night and day.

Yeah, I'm not drawing that on the court comparison, I'm just playing with how familiar the whole "he just needs time, don't worry" rationale sounds.

Nice try Chris!

http://flywithbats.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/political-pictures-barack-obama-heres-hillary-nice-try.jpg

Pistons' Stuckey struggling since Iverson's arrival

by A. Sherrod Blakely
Saturday November 22, 2008, 12:10 AM

AUBURN HILLS -- When the season began, expectations were high for Rodney Stuckey.

He played great in the playoffs last year and followed that with a strong summer in Las Vegas on Detroit's summer league squad and later as part of a select group of players that helped prepare Team USA for the Olympics.

But with great expectations comes the great burden of living up to them.

And Stuckey, by his own acknowledgment, has not done that this season.

"I'm struggling right now," he said. "But I'll find it, though."

The "it" is his game, which has been inconsistent since the Allen Iverson trade.

In the games Stuckey played this season before Iverson's debut, he averaged 10.5 points with 14 assists and six turnovers.

His numbers are not nearly as impressive in the six games he has played with Iverson.

In those games, Stuckey averaged 6.5 points per game and tallied more turnovers (16) than assists (13). That includes a five-turnover, zero-assist performance in Detroit's 98-80 loss at Boston on Thursday.

"We're a different team now," said Detroit guard Richard Hamilton, who, like Stuckey, also is working through struggles since the trade. "Everybody is trying to find their niche, their rhythm and find what they can do to help this team. It's not just one person; it's everybody."

Stuckey's efforts to get back on track have been hampered by a dizziness spell Nov. 9 and sore wrists from a bad spill in Phoenix on Sunday.

But he is quick to dismiss both of those as explanations for his recent struggles.

"I just have to play," Stuckey said. "It's to a point now, I'm just thinking a lot instead of just playing like I did last year. I just have to go out and play."

Only by doing that can Stuckey regain the form and consistent play that made him one of the league's top rookies a year ago and a player the Pistons say is a key to the franchise's future.

"Stuckey, he'll be all right," Pistons coach Michael Curry said.

Stuckey is just pressing way too hard. I think that the "heir to Billups" thing is effecting him. He has too feel some pressure and at the same time, has to deal with a new teammate. Add this to his being overconfident and in my opinion, overrated, and it does not bode well. I think that he needs to be sat out a few games. Let his ego come back to earth, let his wrists heal, and let him think about the situation. I think that it might get him back on track.

Anyone else think that Stuckey, along with Dice, is the one who is making this team go right now? Without him, I think we'd be in a world of hurt. If he keeps up this level of play, which I fully expect, we're suddenly contenders again, in my opinion.

Anyone else think that Stuckey, along with Dice, is the one who is making this team go right now? Without him, I think we'd be in a world of pain. If he keeps up this level of play, which I fully expect, we're suddenly contenders again, in my opinion.

Fixed.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/amr857/the_big_lebowski3-1.jpg

Anyone else think that Stuckey, along with Dice, is the one who is making this team go right now? Without him, I think we'd be in a world of hurt. If he keeps up this level of play, which I fully expect, we're suddenly contenders again, in my opinion.
15 PPG and 9.5 APG since becoming the starting PG 3 games ago is pretty solid. Oh, and %65 from the floor and 5-7 on threes are not to shabby either. Also 6 steals.



Stuckey=Flip Murray

Stuckey and Flip's physical games are similar, but Glenn takes no account of what's upstairs. Probably because he has nothing upstairs.

The only time Flip passed is when his shot was so off it landed in a teamate's hands.

The only time Flip passed is when his shot was so off it landed in a teamate's hands.


...

We should revote this bitch. I'd bet not as many peeps will be likin him.

Stuckey has found his jumper. Next he needs to find some defense.

He's a great compliment to AI. Big, strong PG that can make any defense pay if he isn't respected.

That could be the best backcourt in the NBA by the playoffs if its allowed to grow properly.

Too bad he's a SG.

And a Flip Murray clone, at that. :(

What was Cbill? We won with him.

Stuckey and Flip's physical games are similar, but Glenn takes no account of what's upstairs. Probably because he has nothing upstairs.

A-ha, you seem to have found out about me and your mother, eh Raybeck?

What was Cbill? We won with him.

I think he was a Libra (born Sept 25).

What was Cbill? We won with him.

Slower than Stuckey.

So what do you guys think is going on?

concern troll

I don't know what peeps feel about the Pistons ability to develop players, but we are fucking this kid up with all these lineup changes.

What Tahoe said.

February numbers (7 games)

PPG 9.9
RPG 3.4
APG 3.7
T/O 2.1
SPG 0.4
BPG 0.1
FG% .360
FT% .778
3FG% .333 (only 1/3)
PF 3.7
MPG ~29

Sorry, I don't have his PER, which is all I would have really needed.

You cunt.

Do you think he's a better player than Flip?

No.

Jack (Bloomfield Hills, Mich.): What is wrong with Stuckey? He has been terrible the past few games.

Langlois: There’s no easy or obvious answer, Jack. He says he’s fine physically, but he’s almost certainly feeling extreme fatigue because there just isn’t that pop to his game. I recall one dynamic move in each of the San Antonio and Cleveland games – both coming early in those games – and then not much after that. There is no real concern for Stuckey long term, but everybody will breathe a little easier when he puts up his next 20-point, 10-assist game.

lol

Tracy (Boston): I understand the Pistons are playing this year for the development of Stuckey, but ever since his Player of the Week award it seems other teams have figured out how to defend him. What if Stuckey is not going to bounce back?

Langlois: He’s a young player – a young point guard, working with a veteran team, with proven scorers at his sides – who’s hit a tough stretch, Tracy. No one believes he doesn’t have a bright future. Check back in a month.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Boris (Troy, Mich.): If Stuckey doesn’t have the first-step quickness and ballhandling skills of Isiah, what does that mean for his future? Is he more of a Dwyane Wade-type guard being forced to play the point?

Langlois: Stuckey is closer to Wade in style than to Isiah. Wade is a little more explosive and obviously has a more consistent stroke with deeper range at this point of his career. I’m not ready to say Stuckey will put himself in MVP discussions someday, so I’m not putting him on Wade’s level, just saying that his style more closely parallels Wade’s. There’s a little Deron Williams to his game, too. But right now, Stuckey has to start playing more like the player we saw in December.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Stacy (Mechanicsburg, Pa.): Is Rodney Stuckey physically OK? In sideline coverage of the San Antonio game, you could clearly hear him tell Michael Curry that his “legs are tired.” Curry said he would put him in for short spurts only. He just doesn’t seem like himself and it appears to get worse with each game.

Langlois: Didn’t catch that, Stacy. Sometimes TV viewers are more advantageously positioned than reporters sitting courtside. Stuckey has steadfastly insisted he’s fine, but there’s no question his body looks sapped. He’s not taking the ball to the basket with the same explosion he was a month or so ago. They hoped the All-Star break would refresh him. The good news is he’s 22 – chances are he’ll bounce back pretty quickly.

Wade doesn't have range.

not the truth like people have billed him up to be.