Titanic Tussle

:langlois:
by Keith Langlois
Friday, January 4, 2008

When the Pistons and Celtics met in the 1987 Eastern Conference finals, 16 NBA championship banners already were wafting in the breezes above the sacred parquet of Boston Garden.

The Pistons, 29 seasons removed from their humble Fort Wayne beginnings, had never won so much as a division title. They’d won a grand total of six playoff series in all that time, never more than one in any postseason until taking the two required to get to the conference finals to take on the mighty Celtics. The only things fluttering in the breezes below the Teflon-coated fiberglass roof at the Pontiac Silverdome the Pistons called home – and it got awfully breezy in that cavernous football stadium some winter nights – were pigeons who managed to crack the vacuum-sealed revolving doors.

It was the ultimate clash of NBA cultures when those storied Celtics – the Celtics of Bird and Parish and McHale, with Red Auerbach still gnawing a stogie in the stands and all those retired numbers of Hall of Famers keeping the championship banners company in the rafters – took on the upstart Pistons.

Much can change between now and mid-May, of course, but you’d have an easier time convincing me that Britney Spears was headed for Mother of the Year than that somebody else besides the Pistons and Celtics will have their tickets punched to the conference finals, 21 years later already.

The Bulls are showing faint signs of an awakening since cashiering Scott Skiles on Christmas Eve. Never say never where LeBron James is concerned. Maybe Shaq finds the fountain of youth and Dwyane Wade stays upright long enough for Miami to spring an upset. Perhaps Orlando rediscovers the mojo that had the Magic out front for a few giddy weeks in November.

Maybe. Perhaps. But don’t hold your breath.

It’s likelier that the Pistons and Celtics actually widen the gap between them and the field. The Pistons still have growth potential as Rodney Stuckey finds his legs, Arron Afflalo and Amir Johnson continue to grow up, Jarvis Hayes ingrains himself more deeply in Pistons culture and Jason Maxiell prolongs the amazing arc he’s traced since the season opened.

The Celtics, likewise, are watching young players like Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins grow into the room being carved out for them by the play of their three legitimate All-Stars – Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen and holdover Paul Pierce, who’ve made it work because they all were clearly sick of losing and shouldering the burden for bad teams.

There’s also this to consider: The Pistons and Celtics are going to push each other along through the season. And not necessarily because either one would be paralyzed at the thought of having to cede home-court advantage in the conference finals, but because neither one is going to want to take a foot off the gas and let the other assume the air of invincibility.

So the odds on the Pistons and Celtics colliding in May are way out there on the continuum of safe bets. And if they meet this time, they’ll meet on much more level ground. In fact, of the three NBA titles won by the two franchises since that cataclysmic seven-game series – yeah, it was that good – all of them bear the Pistons’ logo.

There’ll be no clash of cultures this time. Though Bird and McHale and Parish all respected – covertly and grudgingly – the threat the Pistons of Isiah and Joe D and Laimbeer represented, they fairly sneered at the possibility of actually, you know, losing to them. The Celtics of Garnett and Allen and Pierce won’t treat the Pistons of Chauncey and Rip and Rasheed anywhere near as brazenly.

If any team has the upper hand in the war of psyches, it’s the Pistons. They went into whatever it is they call the place that replaced Boston Garden last month and tapped the brakes on the Celtics Express. The key interlude in that game was sparked by Lindsey Hunter, who hit two big shots and undressed backup point guard Eddie House defensively. And now Hunter can’t even crack the active roster. Think that doesn’t register with the Celtics?

They meet again Saturday night at The Palace in what counts as the most-anticipated game of the NBA season to date – at least until the next Pistons-Celtics game, March 5 in Boston. It’ll be Boston’s only trip to The Palace this season – until the conference finals, presumably. They’re going to want to win to balance the psychological scales. The Pistons have to know they’re going to get Boston’s best shot. No clash of cultures this time. Clash of titans, more like it.

Before they play the Celtics, they have to play the Raptors!

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11266

If any team has the upper hand in the war of psyches, it’s the Pistons. They went into whatever it is they call the place that replaced Boston Garden last month and tapped the brakes on the Celtics Express.

Langlois gettin' his snarky on.

Before they play the Celtics, they have to play the Raptors!

http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11266

True, thus dueling OGTs.

Nice cross promotion, btw.

It's nothing personal Glenn, this thread will probably be bigger.

Just gotta help myself, ya know?

Yes, you gotta get yours where you can.

I hope Kendrick Perkins pukes on the palace floor tomorrow a la Rodney White style...

That would be fucking hilarious...

I accidentally voted for Boston here. I think that both teams have had a similar schedule recently, and both played tonight, so it's very likely that the home court advantage* might make the difference.


* "home court advantage" = "other teams hate playing in Auburn Hills because it's a long trip from the airport and the stadium is terrifying."

Who WOULDN'T be afraid of the Palace?

http://www.travelcentre.com.au/travel/russia/Images/summer_palace_water.jpg

Just like two decades ago, Pistons-Celtics is again a sizzling rivalry
Deja Vu

[smilie=blaha.gif]
by George Blaha
Thursday, January 3, 2008

The Pistons have had some great rivalries over the years with the Lakers, the Bulls, the Pacers and the Heat, but I believe without question that the Pistons-Celtics rivalry is the greatest one our franchise has ever had. I can’t help thinking about that with Saturday’s showdown looming at The Palace and the red-hot Celtics coming to town to take on the even hotter Pistons.

The Pistons were knocking on the championship door in the ’80s and they absolutely knew there was no way they were going to win a world title without going through Boston. They had to go through the ghosts of Boston Garden, they had to win in front of Red Auerbach and sometimes in front of Bill Russell, but most of all they had to win against Larry Bird and that Hall of Fame group on the frontline with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, not to mention Danny Ainge and Dennis Johnson. And that team knew how to win. They were unselfish, they had great players and they had an all-time great in Larry Bird, who made the shots that counted when games were on the line.

The Pistons were a Hall of Fame group, too. Besides two guys already there in Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer and Dennis Rodman are Hall of Fame players who might not make it because they weren’t politically correct all the time. And don’t forget a Hall of Fame coach, Chuck Daly. You just knew these two teams were on a collision course in the Eastern Conference. Boston, as I said, already knew how to win – the Pistons had to learn how from the Celtics. It was a tortuous situation for them. With what happened to the Pistons in ’87, a lot of teams would have figured this just might not be in the cards. Instead, they fought back and finally beat Boston in ’88 to advance to the Finals.

The Chicago Bulls with the superhuman Michael Jordan were there and the Lakers were waiting once you got to the Finals to try to stop you from winning a championship, but you had no chance in those days in the Eastern Conference if you don’t go through Boston. Later, the Bulls had to go through Detroit. For some reason or another, they never really did give the Pistons the respect they deserved, but they lost to them enough. So they knew they had to go through Detroit and it was every bit as difficult for the Bulls to finally put the Pistons aside as it was for the Pistons to get rid of the ghosts of Boston Garden.

When I think back to that great ’87 series, two or three things stand out. First and foremost – and, as much of a nightmare as it was, you can’t forget it – was the Larry Bird steal that took a victory on the parquet floor away from the Pistons. Second is the ill-fated collision between Vinnie Johnson and Adrian Dantley in Game 7. That was an absolute disaster because it allowed Boston to play on against a Pistons team minus two impossible-to-stop scorers who were more physically gifted than anybody Boston could put on them. It also allowed the Celtics to get five minutes of rest in the oppressive heat of Boston Garden – and they were the old guys that needed rest, they were the team with no depth. And after that, Danny Ainge got hot and they won that series. So it played right into their hands.

But you know what? A few years after that, John McLeod, who had great success as an NBA coach with Phoenix and Dallas and won more than 700 games, told me when he was working with me as our TV analyst on Pistons telecasts that everybody in the NBA was scared to death of the ’87 Pistons. John said they had great players still in their prime and they had just added two guys who could outrun you and jump over you and make you look like you were stuck in sand, Dennis Rodman and John Salley. I’m not sure the Pistons knew how to win yet, but they were getting close – and if it hadn’t been for those two pieces of buzzard’s luck, they might have won, anyway.

The third thing that pops into my mind about that series is a group of Pistons season-ticketholders in a Boston saloon talking with some Celtics fans. It wasn’t argumentative, but the Boston fans asked the Pistons fans, “Do you really like Bill Laimbeer?” The Pistons fans assured them that, yes, they really did, but to me that was the ultimate compliment to Bill – he was that villain who found a way to beat you and aggravate you and take your mind off the game. You couldn’t find one guy in a thousand who would have taken on that role and been man enough to handle it. No disrespect to all the other players in the league, but he was the one guy built to be a villain.

The Pistons had an awful lot going for them in those days. In 20-20 hindsight, we should have known they were ready to become one of basketball’s all-time greatest teams.

Just like we could see those great teams from more than 20 years ago headed for a collision, I think it’s absolutely shaping up that way again. And I think it’s great for basketball. It’s certainly great for these two franchises and their fans. The fans who were there in the ’80s can’t wait to go and watch the Pistons and Celtics play such meaningful games again and the young fans hear so much about that they now want to be a part of it. The people in Boston haven’t forgotten Bill Laimbeer, Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman and all the other Pistons that they had to give grudging respect. Just like everybody at The Palace hasn’t forgotten about Larry Bird & Co. It’s good for basketball that these two teams are at the top of the ladder in the East – and in the NBA, really. I think everybody is looking forward to Saturday night and beyond.

Sportsbook Wager (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11277)

I expect this to be a way higher scoring game than the one a few weeks ago in Boston.

I'm looking at a 93-89 game here, with no decision yet on who will win.

I am stoked for this game man...screw Wildcard Weekend, this is gonna be fun

Grizzlies gave the C's fits last night, so their starters had to log "higher than usual" minutes...

You know, it's funny to me. There's only two teams out West with a legit shot at a championship in my opinion, Dallas and San Antonio.

Yet the West is so much better than the East, when the East have two legit contenders out "here" as well.

I will give the West slappies that the bottom of the West is way more competitive than the bottom of the East.

Oh and the middle of the West is better too.

The coaching as well...

I think most teams in the West could give us problems if we met in the finals. Mavs, Suns, Spurs, Hornets, Nuggets, Jazz, Blazers. And all those teams got a good point guard who can pretty much do it all.

Yeah, but aside from the Mavs or Spurs I could see the Pistons beating all of those aforementioned teams.

Oh and also the goddamn Jazz.

There will be a Boston beatdown tonight, of this I am sure. I've got a feeling this is one of those games that gets out of hand and we run up the score. Double digit win tonight, gentlemen.

BET YOUR ALPACAS

i was watching American Gangster and Denzel has this great line where he reams his butler who is cleaning the blood off a rug...."THAT'S $20K ALPACA!!"

my goal in life is to find that clip on youtube or create it myself. then, i can die a happy man.

Anyone going? I'll be there.

Mavs aren't a threat...there role players aren't giving them the production they had last year...

That Greg Buckner for Trenton Hassell trade hasn't paid off yet...

Anyone going? I'll be there.
This appears to be a roll call.

Anyone going? I'll be there.


I wish, I have a half season ticket package, and they left out the Boston game... :(

Mavs aren't a threat...there role players aren't giving them the production they had last year...

That Greg Buckner for Trenton Hassell trade hasn't paid off yet...

I like them better than Phoenix.

I like them better than Phoenix.


Me too. PHX will never win a Title, they have no depth, they're starters play way too many minutes and oh yeah...

they never seem interested in playing any defense...

that's a complete recipie for a 2nd or 3rd rd exit

On paper, you'd think Utah would be the most complete team in the West. I guess Jerry Sloan isn't as good of a coach Bill Walton makes him out to be....

Thats why he has no rings.

Sloan has no rings because of some dude named Michael Jordan.

Sloan has no rings because of some dude named Michael Jordan.


Flip Saunders syndrome, he let one player beat his entire team...

Yeah, but I'd think if there's one player you can't be ashamed of having your team lose to...it'd be MJ.

Sloan deserves at least some credit for being able to stay with the Jazz for as long as he has.

In the '90's the Jazz were pretty much the Bills of the NBA.

He's never even been coach of the year...

Good points though.

The only coach I remember winning COY in the '90's is Phil Jackson.

You'd think Sloan WOULD have won one at least, right?

The only coach I remember winning COY in the '90's is Phil Jackson.

You'd think Sloan WOULD have won one at least, right?



Yeah, that year Karl won MVP at least. I don't know, I was in grade school back then.

Boston (28-3) at Detroit (26-7)

By MIKE LIPKA, STATS Writer

Many called the last meeting between the Detroit Pistons and Boston Celtics a potential Eastern Conference finals preview. Less than three weeks later, such an outcome seems even more likely.

Neither team has lost since that game, and when they meet again at the Palace of Auburn Hills on Saturday, the Celtics will be looking for their ninth straight win while the Pistons seek their 12th in a row.

Boston (28-3) and Detroit (26-7) have the NBA's two best records, with each boasting at least a 10-game lead in its respective division. Their combined 10 losses are three fewer than any other Eastern Conference team has on its own.

While the Celtics lead Detroit in the standings, the Pistons have beaten them nine straight times, including an 87-85 win at TD Banknorth Garden on Dec. 19 that remains Boston's lone home defeat. Chauncey Billups - whom the Celtics drafted in the first round in 1997 - had 28 points for Detroit and made a pair of free throws in the final second to break a tie.

"It was playoff-intense, pretty aggressive out there," Pistons coach Flip Saunders said after that game. "I would say, by far, it was the most aggressive game this season, with all five guys going against each other. It got a little bit chippy, so it was a little bit playoff-like atmosphere."

It was also the third game of Detroit's current 11-game winning streak. The Pistons have not won 12 in a row since a 13-game run during the 2003-04 season.

Richard Hamilton had 22 points, Rasheed Wallace added 20 and Billups scored 18 in the latest victory, a 101-85 win at Toronto on Friday. Hamilton has led the Pistons in scoring each of the last seven games, averaging 21.4 points in that span.

Detroit also held yet another opponent under 90 points, something they've done eight times during the streak. They've allowed an average of 84.1 points during the run.

"We're definitely satisfied with how we're playing right now," Billups said. "Who wouldn't be? Eleven straight games, that's an amazing feat in this league."

These are the two best defensive clubs in the NBA - the only two allowing fewer than 90 points per game. After beating Memphis 100-96 at home on Friday, the Celtics have held opponents under 100 for 14 consecutive games, and lead the NBA with just 87.3 points allowed per game.

"Boston's record speaks for itself," Pistons forward Tayshaun Prince said. "They're a great defensive ballclub. They can clog up the paint and really keep you away from the basket. It'll be a good test for us once again."

Celtics coach Doc Rivers called his team's focus the "worst of the year" on Friday, but Boston held off the Grizzlies despite getting just two points from Ray Allen, who missed all nine of his field-goal attempts.

Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett each had 23 points while Tony Allen added a season-high 20 off the bench.

"Everybody knew we're playing Detroit on Saturday night, but we had to take care of Memphis," Pierce said. "We're preparing for something bigger than the regular season. It's got to be every night."

The Celtics, who have three winning streaks of at least eight games this season, are on the same pace through 31 games as the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls, who finished 72-10.

They've won eight straight on the road, but the Pistons have won seven in a row at home and the Celtics have lost their last seven in Detroit dating back to 2003.

Pistons vs. Celtics Gameday

by Ryan Pretzer

TV: TV20 Detroit (HDTV) | Radio: WDFN 1130 AM - The Fan

Last Meeting: Detroit won 87-85 (December 19, 2007)

The skinny: The last NBA matchup in 2007-08 this big was ... the first time Boston and Detroit met on Dec. 19. The Pistons' 87-85 victory in Boston was a regular-season classic, and it appears the rematch won't disappoint, either. The Celtics have won eight straight since the defeat and are on pace to top the best regular-season record ever of 72-10. The trip to Boston was Win No. 3 in the Pistons' current 11-game winning streak. With both teams having to travel after games Friday night – the Celtics flying in from Boston; the Pistons from Toronto – it will be interesting to see how much Flip Saunders and Celtics head coach Doc Rivers rely on their respective benches. Surprisingly, it was the Celtics who had the more taxing game Friday, downing a nine-win Memphis team by four, 100-96, while the Pistons pulled away from the Raptors, 101-85. Adding a wrinkle to the equation is Detroit's hero Friday night, Rodney Stuckey, who was still recovering from a broken hand Dec. 19 and was activated shortly thereafter. He'll give the Pistons' one more man to keep Chauncey Billups rested. Billups looked pretty fresh Dec. 19, scoring 12 of his game-high 28 points in the fourth, including the game-winning free throws with 0.1 left on the clock. Antonio McDyess played a team-high 39 minutes that night, providing much needed interior defense on Kevin Garnett, who scored 26 for the Celtics.

What to watch: Saturday's contest is the best eye-candy the NBA has to offer, so make things easy on yourself and never look away. When it comes to matchups, however, the Tayshaun Prince-Paul Pierce duel is as intriguing as any – for what the players didn't do Dec. 19. Pierce played 41 minutes but scored only 11 points on 5-of-16 shooting with four turnovers. Overlooked in the Pistons' epic victory was that Prince, statistically speaking, was taken completely out of the game. He scored two points on 1-of-10 from the field with two rebounds and one assist. As far as the Pistons are concerned, they don't mind if Pierce and Prince cancel each other out, liking their chances against the other "big two," Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. But perhaps more than either of Boston's other stars, Pierce's ego drives his game. He won't let himself be taken out easily; in the eight games since Dec. 19 Pierce has averaged 25.0 points, including 23 versus Memphis. As the Pistons' third or even fourth scoring option, Prince has seen his scoring fluctuate his entire career. The Celtics game was one of seven in December in which Prince scored less than 10 points – but he had eight games that month with 15 or more. Which team will get their small forward involved offensively first – and will the other be able to contain him?

I think it's a good thing the two teams play only 3 times this season, instead of 4 (I think they've played each other 4 times the past 2-3 years).

Makes for a better playoff series imo.

I wish we had a song like "Hey, Hey Hockeytown" to get us fired up.

1Y1POkI_C98

You remember back in 2004 and some of 2005 that rapper that used to rap before every FSN broadcast? His name was "Hush". He used to get me pumped.

"RAIN, SNOW, WHATEVER...BAD BOYS FOREVER!"

As a little kid all I ever did is dream, of watching my favorite team on the big screen...

On the road again, ain't no reason to fuss,
can take us outta tha D, but can't take the D outta us.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=19488604

Isn't that him?

Disappointed to see his Pistons FSN song isn't on there.

HOME VERSION

As a little kid all I ever had was big dreams of watching my favorite team on the big screens
in Detroit fans really go berserk
when it's game time watch 'em as they go to work

and get down talk of the town is Larry Brown
and Big Ben crashing the boards for rebounds
on all courts all of it's caught on Fox Sports Net
with Fred and Greg calling the shots of all sorts bet

for everybody out there tossing the rock
we got Big Nasty Corliss here to block
when Chauncey gets hot your team can skip talk
Hamilton with the lay-up now watch him Rip walk

zip your lips shut we Hush the opposition
bring on anybody we crush the competition
open all ears I hope your listening
it's time once again for your Detroit Pistons

AWAY VERSION

On the road again, ain't no reason to fuss
take us out of the D but not the D out of us
w/Larry Brown leading our team and Big Ben
it's time to go to work and get dirty like pigpen

Big Nasty rains down with more sweat
and Fred and Greg feeding the heat
with Fox Sports Net
Detroit fans get loud and stomp feet
Chauncey with the 3 who's next and got beef

Break out the popcorn we're stuffing competition
Hush the opposition, Rip is on a mission
plus we got a vision and drop the cargo
picked up some new blood with my man Darko

Detroit Players are known for Bad Boys
and get the crowd pumped for games with mad noise
it's time once again recline the seat back
Pistons came to play don't worry we'll be back

Thank you.

Game on.

i'm willing to bet that should we win we'll get a bit of pub and media love. but if we lose and boston wins, they'll be annointed as the next great team and the definite frontrunner for the championship. *rolleyes*

in reality while it's just another game and we have nothing to prove, i want us to win because we've got such a tough stretch ahead that i think a couple of losses are inevitable over the next week. so this game is important in that regard only.

but we're focussing on the big picture. i could care less if we win 55 or 60. all that matters to me is that we're healthy, fresh, and playing our best basketball come playoff time. so anything we win between now and then is a plus. we're really just trying to get ready for the playoffs, particularly our bench.

I HOPE THE CROWD GOT THOSE THUNDERSTICKS READY!!

AFFLALO ME TO THE CHAT ROOM!!!

CHAT IS HOT

Crowd is pumped for this game. First time in a while I'd say.

Kendrick Perkpwnt

DON'T MISS KEITH'S CHAT AT PISTONS.COM!

Speaking of Chats

HERMY

WTFCHAT'S HOT

Back to back stupid moves by our young back court. Stuckey take the ball inside, misses, gets his own rebound, but then tries again and gets swatted. The Afflalo tried to power it up inside and gets it swatted off of his leg. They'll learn and I bet you someof the other guys give them shit about it.

no one is tri[pping about the youthful mistakes. as long as maxiell keepings beasting

maxiell just became my favorite piston ever. i looooove that he didnt back down just cuz it was kg.

Get in the chat, assholes.

somebody save the chat transcript and post the link after the game

Why not Amir now?

Why not Amir now?
Primoz is ahead of amir now.

The Beastmaster Is Jason Maxiell

Garnett gets his shit swatted, then says some shit to maxiell. Maxiell isnt having it, but he gets the tech? Fuck these refs. They kept the Clets in it 12 FT attempts deep in the 2nd quarter.

I'm surprised how bad the Celtics suck without KG. Pierce and Allen can't carry them while he's out with foul trouble? Apparently not.

Agree Gutz, Max is a beast. He attacked the middle immediately.

I'm surprised how bad the Celtics suck without KG. Pierce and Allen can't carry them while he's out with foul trouble? Apparently not.


They've been bailed out on some sloppy posessions without KG by some last second Ray Allen shots.

FUCK a Kevin Garnit

FUCK YOU KG!

blaha's mad

I've got the fucking Celtic announcers. Fuck you Tommy Heinson or something.

I got a feeling a huge brawl is going to break out before this game is over.

I could go for a repeat of the Pacer situation. Cept this time maybe Detroit fans could make a better showing and actually kick some of the players asses.

Does that count as a block for Rondo?

"The Pistons know the only way they can beat Boston is if they can get KG out of the game" Quote by Boston douche announcer

WE JUST BEAT YOU FUCKTARDS A WEEK AGO!

Does that count as a block for Rondo?

I'm really high on him.

I'm not. What a piece of shit.

Me and KG are really high on him.

I'm not. What a piece of shit.
Agreed. he got arm.

Will be interesting to see how the Pistons come out after the timeout.

Nce 3 by CBill

Chauncey and Rasheed both playing well tonight, which is key. They're two of our biggest players in "big game" situations.

mailman chat?
'

What am I chopped fucking liver?

Tahoe, chat?

lol

Win or lose, the Pistons are playing like crap. They are missing key free throws and mising a ton of open shots. I also can't believe how bad a job Flip is doing. He's not using his bench for energy as he should. Also, why didn't the Pistons attack KG and Allen when they were in foul trouble?? Just a bad game for the Stones.

Glenn Davis is a faggot.

Game over. Pistons can only blame themselves for this one.

Agree Mick...the funk they are in started last night.

[smilie=banghead.gi:

Celtics were clearly just the better team down the stretch in this game.

Chauncey taking two stupid threes, missing two FTs, Rip missing a crucial FT, and leaving GLEN DAVIS alone for layups usually will never bring a good result.

They need these next 2 days off, that's for sure.

They have nothing to prove to the Celtics anyway. I just hope they're ready for these big upcoming games @ Dallas and @ San Antonio.

Key things about losing the game:

Pistons outrebounded 50 to 36

Pistons starters shot 22 of 62 for a whopping 35%

Pistons bench outscored 39 to 23

Dice, Prince, and Sheed never made it to the free throw line.

The Pistons played like crap and Flip Saunders is a moron!

^ At first I thought "the bench got outscored 39-23? " and then I looked at the box score and saw Tony Allen even scored 10, which I forgot about. Yuck.

fucking a

how does a rookie, glen fucking davis, out score everyone inthe damn game. someone insignificent is always fucking with us. Boobie Gibson in the cavs series, fuck that 2nd rounder.

and it was fucking unusual to see rip miss that free throw.....:emo kid:

It's a head scratcher man. This happens a lot to us.

Key things about losing the game:

Pistons outrebounded 50 to 36


That's just obscene. I dont demand that we dominate opponents on the boards but we need to keep pace and be in the same ballpark.

their defense was pretty good making us shoot a loto f jumpers

* The starters didn't get enough rest in this one...again. The 2nd period would have been a good time to do it. Maxiell especially has a great night, but Stuckey came in too early. I hate you, Flip Saunders.

* Terrible free-throw shooting. That alone could have won the game.

* Chauncey looked lost out there.

* Officiating SUCKED BALLS. Blaha hit the nail on the head - no one came to see the officials handing out really tight contact fouls and T's.

* Everyone just seemed really rattled and nervous. Very atypical for the Pistons.

* Tayshaun had better rediscover his shot, or change up his offensive strategy, soon.

* If Jarvis Hayes didn't have bad luck, he'd have no luck at all.

"Thanks for coming," Posey yelled to the fans behind the visitors bench, using his loudest, most sing-songy voice.


"Adios! See ya," Posey said, mocking the Detroit fans by pretending to wipe tears from his eyes. "What's the score?"



And to end it all off, Posey threw in one more insult, intoning the "Deeeee-troit basketball!" rally cry that Palace p.a. announcer John Mason has made his signature.


Who, exactly, is James Posey again? Never heard of him. Is he any good? Hmph...Maybe it's just me.

Who, exactly, is James Posey again? Never heard of him. Is he any good? Hmph...Maybe it's just me.

Well after reading that, he is a piece of shit

* The starters didn't get enough rest in this one...again. The 2nd period would have been a good time to do it. Maxiell especially has a great night, but Stuckey came in too early. I hate you, Flip Saunders.


Flip's problem is that he brings guys in way too late. Especially in the 2nd half. Bringing in Stuckey a little earlier in the first half was a good thing. The problem is in the 2nd half he'll play the starters for 14 minutes straight, then get the bench in. But by that time he's already getting nervous because they're well into the 4th by then. The bench ends up getting about 4 minutes before getting yanked, and the starters end up dead by the end. He needs to bring the bench in with 4-5 minutes left in the 1st and 3rd, so that A: They can get a rhythm and B: The starters don't have to play for 12-15 minute stretches at a time, then sit for a long time (through halftime) if the bench does well.

As for Max, he hit 5 straight shots, then the starters stopped passing him the ball. No excuse for that. No way a guy should hit all 5 of his shots in his first 10 minutes, then only get 1 shot in his next 20.

Who, exactly, is James Posey again? Never heard of him. Is he any good? Hmph...Maybe it's just me.

you mean this dumbass cunt???

456I6467uCg&NR=1

I'm starting to agree with those that stated this week that the Celtics > Pistons.

It's that old achilles heel of just relying on the jumpshot, almost exclusively.

The Celtics showed a lot of toughness last night by rebounding, getting into the paint, and just being physical in general.

Unless something significant changes with either mentality or personnel, I see a similar result in the playoffs as this game if these teams meet again.

The Pistons have a nice team, a top 5 team probably, but the old problems still remain. They are not as obvious maybe, but they're there.

Chauncey's to blame for this loss. He made piss poor decisions down the stretch when we needed baskets. The game wasn't over until we couldn't come up with buckets a few times within the last 2-3 minutes.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8683/4313wy1.jpg
Where buffets happen.

Cross...forgot bout that. Funny as hell.

re:game...put the entire bench in as a unit...til it doesn't work then say, what a dumbass idea.

Full article mentioned earlier.


Celts celebrate as Pistons shrug
By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com

Updated: January 5, 2008

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Quite a scene it was, the one Boston Celtics forward James Posey was making as the final seconds ticked off the clock.

"Thanks for coming," Posey yelled to the fans behind the visitors bench, using his loudest, most sing-songy voice.

"Adios! See ya," Posey said, mocking the Detroit fans by pretending to wipe tears from his eyes. "What's the score?"

And to end it all off, Posey threw in one more insult, intoning the "Deeeee-troit basketball!" rally cry that Palace p.a. announcer John Mason has made his signature.

Happy with the win, James? Guess so.

"It was a nice win for us. We came back and returned the favor," Boston coach Doc Rivers said. "Our guys are excited -- maybe a little too much, but that was a good win for our team."

Indeed it was for the Celtics, who overcame a 21-2 Pistons run in the first half by matching Detroit's early aggression and then outexecuting them down the stretch for a 92-85 victory Saturday night that snapped Detroit's 11-game winning streak and extended the Celtics' own streak to nine in a row, improving their record to an incredible 29-3.

"We know we're not that good of a team. We have flaws, but we come in and work hard every day. Try to take this thing one game at a time, work on our weaknesses and better ourselves," Kevin Garnett said. "Really, man, I don't know our record. I don't even care. I care about how we play and how we play together on both ends, and I love how we are as a team -- how we've meshed."

The mesh man of the night was rookie Glen "Big Baby" Davis, whose energy was infectious. Davis came off the bench for a career-high 20 points and slowed down Rasheed Wallace defensively by keeping him off the low block. Davis also scored the night's biggest basket, a layup underneath off a feed from Paul Pierce with 8.5 seconds left to increase the lead from three to five and seal the win, setting off Posey's mockfest.

Billups did a little mocking of his own afterward in the Pistons' locker room, opining that the Celtics had celebrated like they had won the Super Bowl. There had been no such shenanigans from the Pistons three weeks ago in Boston when they knocked off the Celtics in the first "measuring stick" game of the season between these teams, and it'll be a surprise if the Pistons do not use Saturday night's celebration as motivation when the teams meet for the third and final time of the regular season, March 5 in Boston.

Billups was the hero of the first game between the teams, pump-faking Tony Allen off his feet to draw a foul with 0.1 seconds left, then making the clinching free throws as Detroit defeated Boston 87-85 on Dec. 19.

But Billups was nowhere near as clutch this time around, missing three of four free throws in the final 3:57, then making the biggest bonehead play of the night when an offensive rebound was tipped out to him after he missed the second of two free throws with 46.9 seconds left, leaving the Pistons trailing 88-85.

Billups set up outside the 3-point line and waited for Antonio McDyess to come out high and set a pick -- a pick that never came. After dribbling 10 seconds off the shot clock, Billups unexpectedly let fly with a long 3-pointer with 12 seconds left on the shot clock that missed everything and sailed out of bounds.

"Paul was playing like three feet off me and I had a great, great look, but the ball just came off the right side of my hand," said Billups, adding that he had no regrets whatsoever about taking that shot.

"I know I was three feet off him, but I was standing on the 3-point line. He was 3 feet behind it," Pierce said. "Chauncey hits shots like that on a lot of given nights, but tonight it wasn't there."

The nonchalance with which the Pistons absorbed the loss was typical for them, and to their credit, they are not going to get overly high or low over any game in January, be it against the worst team in the league or the best.

But the Pistons' nonchalance has been one of their worst faults over the past several seasons, their lack of a killer instinct having kept them from being an even stronger force than they've been throughout the better part of this decade. In this game, for instance, the Pistons were outscored 26-0 on points in the paint in the second half, after getting inside repeatedly in the first half.

They're never going to admit being shaken or humbled by a loss -- heck, they were even shrugging off the game of LeBron James' career last June when they fell behind the Cavs 3-2 in the Eastern Conference finals. But you wonder how much this one is going to eat at them, and what it'll bring out of them two months down the road when they teams meet for the final time in the regular season.

At some point, the Pistons cannot simply be satisfied with being a long-term fixture atop the East.

At some point, they have to take some regular season games more seriously than others, if only to keep the new kid on the block from building the type of confidence that can make all the difference at the end of a crucial game -- especially a playoff game.

This one wasn't crucial, but who was more confident at the end? Was it Billups when he was missing those free throws and airballing that ill-advised 3? Or was it Pierce when he shook off Richard Hamilton at midcourt, drove to his left, split two defenders and fed the ball to Davis under the basket for the game-clincher?

It's games like this and finishes like this that turn good teams into great teams. And though Garnett came out and claimed afterward that the Celtics "are not that good of a team," everyone can see the truth is something different.

The Pistons and their fans saw it firsthand Saturday night, and those within earshot of Posey heard about it, too.

Will any of that matter in May and June?

Probably not a lot, but it'd be a mistake to call this one meaningless. It sure meant a lot to the Celtics, and maybe it should have meant more to the Pistons.

For now, we'll just put it down the same way we did the first one -- as a measuring stick game. The difference, though, is that the Celtics now measure up.

Pistons 85, Celtics 92
by Ryan Pretzer

Records: Pistons 26-8; Celtics 29-3
Next: Pistons at Dallas, Wednesday, 9 p.m.

Garnett, Allen, Pierce … Davis?

Saturday’s rematch between the Pistons and Celtics didn’t quite go down to the last second like their initial meeting did Dec. 19, but there was no shortage of theatrics at The Palace Saturday night, which was a two-point game with 1:25 to go.

It even had an unlikely hero, Glen Davis, who scored 16 of his career-high 20 points in the fourth quarter for Boston. Paul Pierce twice found the rookie forward on the weak side for layups in the final 69 seconds, protecting Boston’s four-point cushion. Pierce finished with 19 points and seven assists, and Kevin Garnett had 15 points – 10 of which came in the third quarter.

The Pistons led 22-12 after a topsy-turvy first quarter, but even head coach Flip Saunders confessed the game’s pace slipped out of their control. Rip Hamilton had 18 points and Chauncey Billups had 17, but they combined to shoot 10-of-28 from the floor.

BILLUPS: “They outhustled us, they outrebounded us and they got so many second-chance points. One play that they were running the second half, we just never got a hold of and they just got away from us a little bit in the fourth quarter. He (Davis) came up big for them. He got a lot of and-1s and he finished well around the basket. He was an unlikely hero, but you’ve got to give him credit. He played good and they just outplayed us.”

SAUNDERS: “We rushed shots, we didn’t play in the flow that we’d been playing, and (Boston) had something to do with that as far as how they played. We got a little bit anxious, especially late. We took some ill-advised, I’d say quick, shots late.”


The story of the game in Pistons red, white and blue

– The Pistons trailed 10-3 by the game’s third minute, but Jason Maxiell turned that around in a hurry when he made an early appearance for Antonio McDyess, who had picked up two personal fouls. Maxiell had two electrifying dunks off feeds from Billups and Hamilton that cut the lead to 10-7 and got The Palace crowd into the act. He made his biggest contribution on the defensive end, taking a charge against Garnett, and that forced the Celtics star to the bench the remainder of the quarter, which the Pistons then dominated by a 19-2 margin the rest of the way.

To open the second quarter, Maxiell made a pair of free throws, knocked down a turnaround baseline jumper and drained a gorgeous 19-footer that put the Pistons ahead 28-17. Maxiell ended the half 5-for-5 with 12 points. The 18 minutes, however, were a bit much, and he couldn’t provide the same explosiveness in the second half.

SAUNDERS: “He’s great. He’s played so many minutes lately, he ran out. He was so tired there and he was having problems getting up there in the fourth quarter, that’s why we tried to give him as much rest as you can. For him to play the amount of minutes he did early, it took something out of him.”

Blue Collar – Hamilton did not have a hot shooting night like those of recent games, but that was to be expected against the Celtics and Ray Allen. One of the more entertaining “games within the game” in this new Pistons-Celtics rivalry is the tenacity at which Hamilton and the Celtics’ All-Star shooting guard get after each other on every possession. Hamilton harassed Allen, his UConn counterpart, into a 3-of-8 shooting night for a modest nine points. Even though he played 40 minutes to Allen’s 28, both played extensively in the fourth. In that quarter, Allen did not even attempt a shot in eight minutes while Hamilton scored nine of his 18 points on 3-of-5 shooting, including a clutch 3-pointer that pulled Detroit as close as it would get, 81-80, with 2:36 left.

Red Flag – You had to know the 12-point lead in the first quarter wouldn’t last long against the Celtics, but how did it go so quickly? Look no farther than second-chance points. The Celtics had 10 offensive rebounds in the second quarter, outscoring Detroit in second-chance points, 12-2. For the game, Boston had 27-8 advantage in second-chance points, none of which were more damaging than when Pierce found Davis for a layup with 56.9 seconds left. It had been set up by a Davis rebound of a Pierce miss.

SAUNDERS: “I don’t think either team offensively was great. Both team shot around 40 (percent). They kicked us on the offensive boards. They kicked us on the boards, which really hurt us.”


Pivotal plays, frozen moments and lasting images from a thriller at The Palace

How important is Kevin Garnett to the Celtics? – Boston led 10-3 when Garnett exited at the 7:34 mark of the first quarter with his second foul. Then they played like Garnett-less Celtics of last season, missing their next nine shots as the Pistons scored 17 unanswered, part of a 19-2 run to end the quarter. Rasheed Wallace, predictably, benefited the most, scoring twice in the paint before a draining a 3-pointer. Wallace finished with 16 points and eight rebounds.

Hey, you can’t expect 100% -- You knew it might not be the Pistons’ night when Chauncey Billups, shooting 90.7 percent from the foul line, missed three free throws in the fourth quarter. Trailing 81-77, Billups missed both attempts. He also split a pair with 45.8 seconds left that could have made it a two-point game. Billups rebounded his own miss, but was off the mark on 3-pointer.

Big Baby delivers – After Hamilton’s 3-pointer gave Detroit another glimmer of hope with 2:36 remaining, it wasn’t the Big 3 that delivered Boston to victory. In fact, Garnett, Allen and Pierce didn’t even score. Instead, Davis scored seven points, drawing two three-point plays (he converted one) and another layup. Reserve guard Tony Allen added four free throws. Davis and Allen led a surprisingly strong Boston bench that outscored Detroit’s reserves, 39-23.

PIERCE: (On Davis) “He was huge, but the effort was from our entire bench. A lot has been talked about how our bench is going to respond, and I think that tonight they outplayed Detroit’s bench. I don’t think they get enough credit and I think they were the difference tonight.” SAUNDERS: “Well, it’s at the point of attack, their elbow pick-and-roll play, we didn’t handle that extremely well. We let Pierce get away and then all of a sudden you put a lot of pressure and Davis’ guy had to come help and Pierce made some great plays. He had seven assists, made some great finds late. I mean, you’ve got to give Davis credit. He made big shots, three-point plays.


A little perspective on the end of an 11-game winning streak

The Pistons 11-game winning streak is over … but the intrigue is just beginning. These teams won’t meet again until Mar. 5, in Boston. Is it possible neither team will lose again before that meeting, too?

Beating Boston twice would have been nice – but the Pistons are one of only three teams to say they did it once, so don’t get greedy. The only disappointment is that fans at The Palace will have to wait several more months for even the chance to watch another Pistons-Celtics showdown in person. After splitting two highly competitive games that – judging from Saturday’s four technical fouls – were played with playoff intensity, it’s hard not to get carried away and envision an epic seven-game series (with both teams winning on the road, would there really be a home-court advantage?) For now, just keep in mind: it’s not a rivalry if the same team wins every time.

SAUNDERS: “As (Tayshaun Prince) said, we got our butts kicked on the glass, all kind of (Boston) three-point plays or inside shots late, and we still had chances in the last minute, so that would be the one positive.”

Dice's -15 sorta stands out.

NBA.com doesn't have the points in the paint in their box scores anymore, anybody got that?

:mccosky:


GANG GREEN: Celtics get their payback
Rookie Davis emerges for Boston and the Pistons' 11-game win streak is history.

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

AUBURN HILLS -- Paul Pierce walked off the court Saturday proclaiming that his Boston Celtics were the best team in the league.

Well, on Jan. 5, 2008, he's exactly right.

The Celtics are now an NBA-best 29-3 after walking out of The Palace with a hard-earned 92-85 victory over the Pistons, avenging the Pistons' win at the Garden last month. The loss ends the Pistons' 11-game winning streak and extends the Celtics' winning streak to eight.

"They were a little more happy then I know we were when we beat them out there (in Boston)," said Chauncey Billups, who was amused by Pierce's boast. "When we won, it was just another game for us. They kind of played it like it was the Super Bowl. It's just a regular game, man, with two good teams playing. This probably means a little more to them and their psyche than it was for us. But they won, man, they won."

The Celtics won largely because the Pistons couldn't contain Pierce's dribble penetration or harness reserve forward Glen "Big Baby" Davis in the fourth quarter. Davis hit all six of his shots and scored 16 of his career-high 20 points in the fourth.

"The problem wasn't Big Baby getting down there," Tayshaun Prince said. "The problem was what we were doing out on the perimeter. We had some defensive breakdowns, which doesn't happen regularly, and they took advantage of it."

Prince kept getting crossed up at the point of attack, which enabled Pierce to get by him. Once there, he drew Davis' defender (usually Antonio McDyess) to him and passed off to Davis for easy scores.

Davis converted two three-point plays, including one, a killer, with 2:18 left after the Pistons had cut the lead to one on a 3-pointer by Hamilton. He scored seven of the Celtics' last nine points.

"He came up big for them," Billups said of Davis. "Give him credit. He played good and they outplayed us."

The Pistons managed to subdue Boston's Big Three, for the most part. Kevin Garnett finished with 15 points (4 for 11 shooting). He was scoreless in the first half and didn't make his first basket until 7:46 mark of the third quarter.

Ray Allen, harassed all night by Hamilton, had nine points.

Pierce, though, was pretty good. He had 19 points, nine rebounds and seven assists.

"It was a huge win," Pierce said. "We played in a playoff atmosphere against a team that plays great at home, had won 11 straight and we flew in on a back-to-back. This team just showed a lot of character."

Truth is, both teams were playing the third game in four nights and both flew in from a game Friday. But the Pistons would not use that as an excuse for their stagnant offense or their inability to rebound.

They shot 39.2 percent, and missed 14 of 20 shots and five of 11 free throws in the fourth. Billups, a 90-percent free throw shooter, missed three free throws and fired up an ill-advised 3-pointer (airball) that could have tied the game with two minutes left.

"I can't use (fatigue) as an excuse. It's not like we had been playing 40 minutes a night in those other games," said Billups, who finished with 17 points (4 of 12 shooting). "We got too locked in on trying to chase mismatches and we got locked in on one side of the court. They are a really good defensive team, especially on the strong side. We had to keep swinging the ball to get better looks."

The Celtics outrebounded the Pistons 50-36 and had 27 second-chance points.

"They outrebounded us by a lot," said Billups. "They had a lot of second-chance points. Nobody on our team shot the ball great. We never could get a hold of that play they were running with Pierce and Davis. And yet, we still, with all that, we had a chance -- down three and I shot an airball. We should have been down by 12 or 14. But they won, that's the bottom line."

Hamilton scored 18 and Rasheed Wallace had 16 points and four blocks.. Jason Maxiell had another strong game off the bench with 13 points.

The two teams meet one more time, in Boston on March 5.

"It was a big game tonight," said Boston coach Doc Rivers, "but tomorrow will be another big nightBut our team needed this."

Wallace peeved
Wallace was visibly upset throughout the fourth quarter, and he didn't cheer up much after the game. In fact, he left The Palace in his sweats, without showering or speaking to the media.

"I don't know, man, I don't know," Billups said when asked what was bothering Wallace.

Part of his frustration, no doubt, was his inability to exploit his offensive mismatch with Davis. He missed three of four shots in the fourth.

He and McDyess were both upset at the Pistons' inability to corral Pierce. And Wallace was also peeved at referee Scott Foster for calling a foul on what Wallace and the Pistons believed was a clean block on Garnett in the fourth quarter.

Bad nights
Prince is now 4 for 22 shooting in two games against the Celtics. He was 1 for 10 in Boston and 3 for 12 Saturday.

McDyess picked up two fouls in the first two and a half minutes and never found his rhythm. He had four points on 2 for 6 shooting.

"We rushed shots and never really played in the same flow we had been playing in," coach Flip Saunders said. "But Boston had a lot to do with that."

Confrontation
Maxiell and Garnett stood toe-to-toe in the second quarter exchanging menacing glances. Maxiell had blocked Garnett's shot, but was called for a foul. Garnett stepped into Maxiell.

Maxiell had choice words for the referees and earned a technical foul.

Saunders was questioned after the game why he didn't go back to Maxiell down the stretch, since he was more productive on this night than McDyess.

"He was great but he has played some many minutes and he was tired," Saunders said. "We tried giving him as much rest as we could, but the amounts he played took something out of him."

Maxiell disagreed with the reasoning, but not with the decision.

"I wasn't tired, but Dyess is the starter and he's the vet," Maxiell said. "I don't have a problem with that."

Fast breaks
The game featured the third highest combined winning percentage in NBA history since the shot-clock era. The Celtics and Pistons combined winning percentage was .844, that trailed only the Lakers (39-3) vs. Milwaukee (35-8) game in 1972, .871 and the Boston (25-7) vs. Lakers (33-3) game in 1966, .853.

Billups, Kendrick Perkins and Doc Rivers also got technical fouls.

MICHAEL ROSENBERG: Pistons' loss is reminiscent of postseason play

January 6, 2008
BY MICHAEL ROSENBERG
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

The Pistons always figure the cup is half full, so keep pouring the champagne. So in the wake of the Celtics' 92-85 win at the Palace Saturday night, let me be the first to say that it wasn't what the Celtics did, it's what the Pistons didn't do.

Oops. Chauncey Billups beat me to it.

"It was more us than them," Billups said. "We got so locked in at trying to chase mismatches that we kept the ball on one side of the court a little too much."

There is some truth to that. But there is truth to this, too:

This game looked a lot like some games we've seen the Pistons play in the last two postseasons. You know the ones. The Pistons get stagnant on offense. Billups misses shots and nobody else can drive to the basket consistently. An unsung opponent (in this case Glen Davis) scores a bunch of points. Rasheed Wallace lets a few bad calls drive him off a mental cliff. (Wallace, I'm told, left the arena in full uniform Saturday night.) :cogent:

And one important Piston struggles mightily -- in this case, as in last year's Eastern Conference Finals against Cleveland, that Piston was Tayshaun Prince. Prince is now 4 for 22 in two games against the Celtics. And at least twice in the final minutes, Paul Pierce blew past Prince, leaving Prince with a befuddled look on his face, as though he expected Pierce to at least leave a forwarding address. Naturally, other Pistons had to help out on Pierce, and just as naturally, Pierce found teammates for easy scores.

It doesn't have to be this way in the spring -- the Pistons chased mismatches partly because they know they have plenty of mismatches. But this game gave some hints of how the Celtics can beat the Pistons.

The Celtics survived a first half in which Kevin Garnett played only 11 minutes because of foul trouble. (I don't know what to say about Garnett's third foul, except that if anybody tried to call that on any playground in the country, he would be laughed out of the park -- and I've played on some pretty sissy-fied playgrounds in my day.)

The disturbing part for the Pistons is not the loss; it is just a regular-season game in January, after all, and the Pistons have already beaten the Celtics in their place. The disturbing part was how it happened.

For all the attention paid to the Boston's Big Three of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, the real key to the Celtics' success is that they are greater than the sum of their parts.

The Celtics are already an elite defensive team. At times Saturday night, Boston took the Pistons so far out of their offense that Rip Hamilton ended up in a luxury suite. It was the kind of thing that happened with surprising regularity to the Pistons in the last two postseasons.

The Pistons failed to take advantage of Garnett's foul trouble. At halftime, they led by just two points and had been outrebounded, 25-17, even though Garnett, one of the best rebounders in the league, only had two points.

The Pistons need to find a way to score against this team, especially when Garnett is out of the game. And in order to that, they probably need rookie Rodney Stuckey to make significant strides by April. Stuckey has the ability to break down a defense, but he is still learning to play at this level.

Saturday night, the Pistons looked like they just wanted to play a series of one-on-one games, and the NBA doesn't work like that anymore.

"What happens is once we start chasing those mismatches, they know what you're trying to get to," Billups said. "They know where to clog down. Then you find yourself with six seconds left trying to make a play. And that's always tough."

This was the second Pistons-Celtics game of the season, and frankly the whole regular-season series between the teams is turning into the world's longest movie trailer. They seem like locks to meet in the Eastern Conference Finals.

By the time that happens, these teams will have no secrets. In their first game against each other, Billups waited until a crucial fourth-quarter moment, then backed skinny Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo down and scored easily. It reminded me of a similar move by Billups against Miami's Damon Jones near the end of Game 7 of the 2005 Eastern Conference Finals.

In Saturday's fourth quarter, Boston adjusted, making sure they had a big guy down low and putting taller players on Billups.

This was not just about what the Pistons do. It was about what the Celtics did to stop them, and unless the Pistons adjust, this spring will look a lot like the last two.

He's dead on.

I am so sick of hearing this, "It's not them, it was us" stuff from Billups.

The Pistons need to find a way to score against this team, especially when Garnett is out of the game. And in order to that, they probably need rookie Rodney Stuckey to make significant strides by April. Stuckey has the ability to break down a defense, but he is still learning to play at this level.


wurd

About James Posey taunting the crowd:

So what? It's James Posey.

Dice's -15 sorta stands out.
The notion that Sheed wasn't playing every second that Garnett was out there was faulty to me, especially given the love that Garnett got against everyone else out there.

The Big Baby thing bugs me. He was their Maxiell last night, and we didn't have anyone who could play enforcer on him. I would've killed for someone long and strong off the bench -- a Dale Davis or PJ Brown. Brezec, fun as he is on the court in a blowoutt, is only the answer if you're asking the wrong fucking question. Maxiell needs to get off his feet to block.

I don't want to talk about our guard play down the stretch, which was about as "playoff loss"-esque as it gets. How many fucking times did we settle for lame jumpers? How many times does Mr. Shot emerge from Mr. Big Shot? I could see the writing on the wall with the jitter in Rip's FT mantra before he missed that FT.

Rebounds: 50-36

Points in the paint: 26-0 in the 2nd half. Guess which team had 26?

That last stat is just DISGUSTING. You can't only rely on jumpers and expect to win. It may work for some games when you get hot but it will burn you - ask chicago about that. These are the same complaints that we've had since going back to about halfway through the 64-win season.

This reminds me of one of those games against the Bulls that we lost, i think the first one... we were within close striking distance in the closing minutes, but we really didn't deserve to win it the way we'd been playing (we had gotten out-hustled on the boards and got into it by timely 3s), and lo and behold we didnt come through in the clutch. you cant just play like garbage, get lucky on a few long bombs, and then turn it on. When we win its because we've been playing well for a longer stretch.

Why wouldn't we put Max on Davis? They're about the same size. Davis is a bit bigger weight-wise, but hieght wise they aren't much different. Max would be able to guard him without being overmatched. He might have been able to get in the guys face and block some stuff without jumping through the roof. Just seemed like an easy adjustment to me. Then again, leaving him in and getting him the ball seemed like common sense too, but that didn't happen.

Why wouldn't we put Max on Davis? They're about the same size. Davis is a bit bigger weight-wise, but hieght wise they aren't much different. Max would be able to guard him without being overmatched. He might have been able to get in the guys face and block some stuff without jumping through the roof. Just seemed like an easy adjustment to me. Then again, leaving him in and getting him the ball seemed like common sense too, but that didn't happen.

Umm.....Our coach is Flip Saunders, that's why! Next question.

I needed this because I didn't hate the Celtics yet. I do now.

Garnett and Allen are the only two that knew that this game wasn't game 7 of the NBA finals.

Why wouldn't we put Max on Davis? They're about the same size. Davis is a bit bigger weight-wise, but hieght wise they aren't much different. Max would be able to guard him without being overmatched. He might have been able to get in the guys face and block some stuff without jumping through the roof. Just seemed like an easy adjustment to me. Then again, leaving him in and getting him the ball seemed like common sense too, but that didn't happen.
It looked like all Max could do was foul him on the line, but admittedly that only happened once and Max wasn't given a lot of chances. The thing is, Max tends to have to ump to block. He can't just stand there and set up position and dare a shot attempt.

Our rebounding sucked, and some of that had to do with Dice not being allowed to so much as get position without getting a foul. Maxiell, for the good things he brings, still doesn't rebound well consistently.

i call it the jeff foster effect: our players refuse to guard someone or pay them any attention until that player singlehandedly beats us.

Umm.....Our coach is Flip Saunders, that's why! Next question.


according to Flip, Maxiell was tired...
(of course, according to Maxiell he wasn't tired at all)

coach knows best.

We'll prolly end up splitting our season matchup with Boston. This one goes to them.

After thinking about it, I wouldn't change a thing. We've been playing too good to let one game effect things too much.

What was the line on this one?

I think Pistons -3

I'm not sure I put much stock into the Celtics "big" win. I haven't commented on the game yet, so forgive me if this has already been said in this therad.

In my opinion, the Pistons made somebody other than KG, Pierce, and Ray beat them, and it worked. Glen Davis had the game of his season last night, and I'll be shocked if he ever duplicates that production in another game this season.


I think the Pistons did a good job keeping the "Big Three" under check. And I just can't see them beating us 4/7 times

Thats my opinion...

I'm not sure I put much stock into the Celtics "big" win. I haven't commented on the game yet, so forgive me if this has already been said in this therad.

In my opinion, the Pistons made somebody other than KG, Pierce, and Ray beat them, and it worked. Glen Davis had the game of his season last night, and I'll be shocked if he ever duplicates that production in another game this season.


I think the Pistons did a good job keeping the "Big Three" under check. And I just can't see them beating us 4/7 times

Thats my opinion...

So, you believe the Celtics are vastly overrated?

First third of the season, only 3 losses. Props to Doc Rivers for keeping everyone's egos in check... well, at least for the first 30 or so games.

I'd really like him to bench Posey for several games to keep that point in the forefront.

What I'm waiting for is the playoffs. I'm wondering if Wil is thinking that, come playoff time, those "big three", all solitary marquee stars previously, might begin to "act" like the sole go-to-guy on the squad and collectively play less as a team, and more like a team of all-stars in it for themselves. If that happens, the Pistons have better than a chance at whipping them.

We'll prolly end up splitting our season matchup with Boston. This one goes to them.


"We" only play them 3 times, and it's 1-1 now.

So, you believe the Celtics are vastly overrated?




I never said that, read my post. I don't think they are as good as their 3 loss record indicates, they are yet to play Phoenix, San Antonio, or Dallas, arguably the 3 best teams in the West.

Nobody ever won a Title in the regular season, so Wins/Losses means absolutely nothing. Why should Pistons fans care if they have only 3 losses? Once you consider one of those losses was to us, than that's enough to convince me we're capable of beating them.

Not to mention, as a caviat, Ray Allen is averaging close to 40 mpg. He's going to be running on fumes come May.

Nah, he'll have an injury that keeps him out of 10-15 games and he'll be refreshed.

If we meet these shit bags in the playoffs and don't win, I will officially cease to be a fan.

"We" only play them 3 times, and it's 1-1 now.

Details, schmetails...the next game goes to OT.

Will the pistons ever have an answer to an opponent putting a bigger defender on Chauncey? It just seems like since Bowen in the 05 finals, it's been an automatic way to shut down detroit's offense at the end of a close game. Billups is obviously baffled by it. Larry "supra genius" Brown couldn't adjust. Flip just twitched and acted like his suit itched.

Especially bad when two of the teams that understand how to play that card are ones that we'll probably--well, hopefully anyway--be facing in a playoff series.

Very fun game to be at last night.

Place was as packed as I've seen it in 5 years, it had a silverdome atmosphere to it. Brought back memories of the days when fans used to hand leprechauns in effigy over the 2nd section railing. There was one drunk celtics fan a few sections over who would not stop talking shit. He was silent as fuck until the celtics took the lead in the 4th, and then his drunk ass just would not stop talking shit at the top of his lungs.

Back in the day, that would have earned him an ass-kicking, but I digress.

Sucks that we lost, but it's just one game out of 82. No such thing as a quality regular season win, just wins and losses.

For all the bitching and moaning, if Chauncey and Rip hit their FTs in the 4th quarter, we still win. I'm fine with that.

Not only could I not watch this game. But I was in Ohio during it.

I live in Ohio and I went to Michigan to watch the game.

I didn't read the thread but how ironic is it that the Pistons lost because of a guy named Big Baby who Flip wouldn't play Maxiell against?

He's pretty much Maxiell in his rookie year. He's not tall enough to play above the rim, but he's got a lot of weight to him. If he worked that weight down he'd probably play just like Max.

Self-cannibalism?

ppl need to stop panicking, the radio already is saying that the Pistons need to make a move to keep up w/ Boston...are you kidding me?

He's pretty much Maxiell in his rookie year. He's not tall enough to play above the rim, but he's got a lot of weight to him. If he worked that weight down he'd probably play just like Max.


I don't even think he can dunk, all his buckets will come on layups or putbacks, he can't even get off the ground...

Yeah, I don't think he made anything but layups during the game. No jumpshots, no dunks, just layups. That's why I said if he could work the weight down he could be like Max. I'm sure dropping 50 pounds would help his vertical.

Yeah, sorry, but "Big Baby" just had the only big game that he'll ever have in his career. Mark my words, he will never have a big game like that in a meaningful game ever again. Just like Brian Scalabrine, Austin Croshere, Slava Medvidenko and Booby Gibson.

MoTown, I agree. I told my father that yesterday. For at least the remainder of this season, Davis will not duplicate a performance such as the one he had Saturday.


And as for Glen Davis dropping 50 pounds, I think part of what made him effective at LSU and on Saturday was his weight. Since he can't play above the rim, if you try and block his shots, you'll get called for the foul, because you'll just come down on him, rather than go up with him.

He's probably a better player at 280 pounds than he would be if he were 240 or 230...IMO.

The Oliver Miller approach if you will.

The Oliver Miller approach if you will.


Ooo, and I will.

Thank you for asking.

You will what? Cry?

Words hurt.

At least they aren't sticks and stones. Unless of course, they're the words "sticks" and "stones"

:mccosky:

Bandwagon jumpers
Dang, people, it was just one loss. All of a sudden, judging from my email basket, Flip Saunders can't coach. Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess are too old. Chauncey Billups is over-rated. Are you serious? After an 11-game win streak and a 26-8 start, I really didn't expect that kind of reaction. It's funny, too, because during the win streak, I was getting notes from people praising Saunders for finally playing the bench. Then they lose, and Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo and Jarvis Hayes all struggle, and I am getting notes criticizing Flip for staying with the reserves too long. Can't have it both ways, guys.

Wallace did not talk today, so I can't tell you exactly what most upset him after the loss Saturday or why he bolted the arena so hastily. But, as Saunders said, he was mostly upset at the way the Pistons faltered in the final four minutes of that game. He was mad that he didn't take advantage of his offensive mismatch with Glen Davis. He was mad that Chauncey and Rip Hamilton were firing up so many quick shots, not allowing him time or opportunity to get into scoring or rebounding position. He was mad that the perimeter defenders couldn't stop Paul Pierce from penetrating, which made him and McDyess look bad when they had to come up to help, leaving Davis alone for lay-ups. He hates to lose, especially a game like that where he felt the Pistons beat themselves.

But please, don't read any more into it than that. I have already gotten letters from people assuming Wallace is mad at Flip again, or that he has abandoned his teammates. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was one loss in an 82-game schedule. Nothing more, nothing less.

Like I said, the Pistons have nothing to prove to the Celtics.

Forget about this game, move on to Dallas and SA.

I hate to break it to McCoskey but there's no such thing as a shut-down perimeter defender. Exactly how many shut-down perimeter defenders are there in this league? You stop dribble penetration by having bigs that are able to help and defend the rim. Sheed and McDyess aren't capable of this in their advanced age and we have a coach that doesn't understand this concept nor play his best help defender (maxiell) in crunch time.

.....And Flip can't coach and Billups is over-rated.

Ron Artest, Kobe Bryant, Bruce Bowen. We aren't getting any of those.

Question:
Do you think McCosky would have taken the job offered to Langlois if it were offered to him, first?

Ron Artest, Kobe Bryant, Bruce Bowen. We aren't getting any of those.
Can't believe you put him in the Shutdown category. If its that easy then T-Mac is a shutdown defender too. :kennythejet:

You like that one, don't you, Gutz?

We could always go "The Sports Guy" route and swap Sheed for Camby or Amare...

Amare as a Piston would be a disaster, we already have trouble keeping opposing bigs out of the paint, and Amare is borderline USELESS defensively...

He also doesn't create his own shot, so I'm not sure how effective he'd be here offensively either. You need a true passing PG and Billups is more of a balenced passer/scorer.

I would have loved to have Amare pre-injury. His athleticism made up for a lot of his lack of know-how on defense. Now, however, he's not nearly as explosive. Agreed that he would be a disaster.

We just lost big to dallas, but I don't even care about that loss. I'm not really all that concerned about this loss. Dallas is not that much better than us - it can be chalked up to an off night for us and against a really good team, an off night will become a nightmare night.

Its the Boston loss that's nagging at me, mainly because Boston beat us using playoff strategy. THAT is a concern. People gotta realize, for a perenniel 50+ win ECF team, the regular season is PLAYOFF PREPERATION. If you're winning games but have "playoff flaws", your wins are essentially useless - and if you lose games but are really working on getting those "playoff abilities" ready, it's much more useful than a garbage game.

But you see, its the same posters who ignore that because of a great regular season record... just like 04-05.

^^That is true, but I was not eating too much cornbread during our streak because I know that, ultimately, it's how the teams are playing at the end of the year that will determine the playoff outlook. We're still fairly early, so I'm still not too concerned. Hopefully we can fix the mistakes for the next contest.