No, I didn't forget about the GSW game this afternoon, but we gots to start talking about this one.

Boston Globe angle:


Again a well-oiled machine
Dumars's Pistons could pose challenge

By Peter May, Globe Staff | December 16, 2007

The Heat are a mess. The Bulls are a mess. The Nets are a mess. Those three, all thought to be legitimate playoff teams, were 18 games under .500 entering last night, with Miami, less than two years removed from an NBA title, holding down the cellar. None would even make the playoffs if the season ended today.

Ah, but then there are the Pistons. We'll always have Auburn Hills.

One quarter into the season, you can scan the Eastern Conference and see one team, really, that poses any threat to the rampaging Celtics. Yup, it's the Pistons, who make their first Boston appearance of the season Wednesday.

Orlando might pose a threat on paper, but how can you take the Magic as seriously as Detroit with a stretch they just went through, i.e. home losses to Atlanta and Indiana and a road loss to Milwaukee?

No, it's Rip, Chauncey, Sheed, and the fellas who have to concern Celtics fans - if any team in the East does. Heading into the weekend, the Pistons had the second-best point differential in the league (well behind the Celtics, though) and still have that enviable mix of youth, experience, and playoff savvy.

Just think of the run they've had (which shows no sign of abating, either). They've won 50 or more games six straight seasons; no other Eastern Conference team currently has as many as three straight 50-win seasons. They've made five straight trips to the conference finals, matching the run of the vaunted Bad Boys teams from 1987-91. In that span, they've twice made it to the Finals, losing in 2005 and winning in 2004. They've done it under three coaches, but the constants remain on the floor (the aforementioned lads, who've been the anchors the last four years along with Tayshaun Prince) and in the front office (the venerable tag team of Joe Dumars and John Hammond).

With 16 wins in the first 23 games the Pistons are on course for another 50-win season and Dumars is pleased with what he sees. He was not so inclined last spring, when he watched the Pistons blow a 2-0 lead in the conference finals and drop four straight to the Cavaliers. He talked afterward of restoring the team's edge, grit, and toughness, traits he had when he played and traits he tries to instill in his players.

"We came back with a very good focus," Dumars said by telephone Friday. "And we've added some youth, depth, and athleticism to the team. I'm pleased with what I've seen over the first 20 games."

While the Pistons can point to early contributions from the likes of Jason Maxiell and Arron Afflalo, and anxiously await the debut of impressive rookie Rodney Stuckey (hand surgery), this is still a team whose success hinges on those names that have become so familiar to us over these last five years. But as with any group that has had prolonged success, it is natural to see some slippage at some point, which Dumars saw last spring in the playoffs.

There is no way the Pistons should have lost to the Cavaliers, let alone lose four straight. But they did. Dumars still can't bring himself to watch a tape of Game 5, when LeBron James went otherworldly. Or Game 6, when Daniel Gibson put on a shooting clinic from Youngstown. It's too painful. And too revealing.

"If you're honest with yourself," he said, "something like that is bound to kick in when you've had the success we've had, five straight trips to the conference finals. That's why it's imperative for me in my job to push the envelope, to push the buttons. We need to keep the main components we have and add to them. We have a great core here."

These Pistons score - they are averaging 99.3 points a game through their first 23. They are among the league leaders in turnovers (fewest committed) and in assist-to-turnover ratio. Only the Celtics allow fewer points a game, so they're also able to make stops. And they're among the league leaders in blocked shots.

The NBA and one of its broadcast arms, ESPN, recognized the attraction of Wednesday's game by moving it to its early game for the night. And, in a real break for both teams and their fans, each team will have had two offdays prior to Wednesday's game. No one will be on the second leg of a back-to-back, which so often happens during the season.

Unfortunately, it will be the first of just three regular-season meetings. But based on what we've seen over the first quarter of the season, we could be in store for a few more in May. The Pistons have played four different teams in the conference finals the last five years. Is Boston going to be No. 5?

"Obviously," Dumars said, "Boston is going to be a force in the East that everyone is going to have to deal with."

pistons in 6

shit my bad thought this was the ecf thread.

I did coke with Len Bias back in the day.

Low blow. Or maybe just, blow...

Whatever happens, I hope someone has the balls to bump KG around a little. This would have been a great game to use Nazr for the foul.

Low blow. Or maybe just, blow...

bwahahaha

Put Brezec on KG and all will be well in Beantown for Motown

That's a joke right? Let's hope Sheed feels like playing D the way we know he's capable of in that game. He usually does well against guys like TD and KG.

yes, a lil homer enthusiasm. I looked for some white text, I must have forgot it.

That's a joke right? Let's hope Sheed feels like playing D the way we know he's capable of in that game. He usually does well against guys like TD and KG.

... and drops down on the post for some points.

I'm so sick of "The Big 3" talk now...

Tremaine Fowlkes has more rings than all 3 of them put together...so let's stop talking about them....ok ESPN?

He was still on the team when we won? I thought we'd cut him already. Wow.

I hope Chauncey goes to work on Rajon Rondo...even though Rajon is a solid defender, I'm just sick of all the credit that prick is getting...

product of the system, fuck you Danny Ainge, your not Theo Epstein

pistons in 6

shit my bad thought this was the ecf thread.

if that was the case, Celtics in 6.

Which of the big 3 will be injured when that series starts?

More likely, which of them is going to miss significant time this season due to injury?

Pierce is the easy choice.

Which of the big 3 will be injured when that series starts?

Like it'll matter though. Rondo will go all Daniel Gibson.

*Sigh* Its probably true if we don't learn to stop dribble-penetration.

Ray Allen will have his traditional back injury soon...

He's already got an ankle injury and hasn't played the last few games.

I'm stoked for this game. Classic battles revisited. In one way its just like old times (the Celtics getting all the pub). In another its a complete reversal (Pistons are the old guard with the recent past of honor and glory this time).

Stoked.

He was still on the team when we won? I thought we'd cut him already. Wow.
Fowlkes wasn't on the 2004 championshipi team, having been Darkowned (cut because they were both being bitches and Fowlkes was an expendable distraction to Darkostud).

and, he's out a cd player

Wait... something about a weight room ... fuck.

Hmmm...I could've sworn Fowlkes was on the team, perhaps that was one of the many 10-day contracts we handed out during that span...a la Anthony Goldwire

This game should be today.

Mike Breen and JVG on the call...

I think I'll watch the local broadcast instead,

<<<<<< JVG is a boob

You know I really hope we win this game. This is the sort of game that the Pistons seem to love to just blow, games where we're an obstacle to someone else's rise. If this goes down to the wire and we end up getting out-rebounded and blow the game by jacking up brick 3s, i'm going to shoot flip saunders in the face even if its not his fault.

You know I really hope we win this game. This is the sort of game that the Pistons seem to love to just blow, games where we're an obstacle to someone else's rise. If this goes down to the wire and we end up getting out-rebounded and blow the game by jacking up brick 3s, i'm going to shoot flip saunders in the face even if its not his fault.


We get out-rebounded in every game...but either Sheed, Dyess, Maxiell or whoever, should have an absolute FIELD DAY on that fat fuck Kendrick Perkins...

and Chauncey should be able to post up little Rajon Rondo at will...

maybe KG and Dyess will get into another scuffle and get ejected like last year in Minny, then Maxy will be able to abuse Glen Davis

This game means more to Boston than it does for Detroit. We are battle tested and we are not worried about anyone but ourselves.

I'm sure it will be a suck off festival for ESPN announcers, just cumming everytime one of the big 3 score and calling them the greatest team ever assembled.

Bottom line is that they are playing a ton of minutes but I'm still expecting a Pistons win. I'm sure they will make every excuse possible if we win, starting with Ray Allen missing the last 2 games because of his ankle.

I just want Chauncey to post up Rondo and McDyess to destroy Kendrick pussy ass Perkins.

Go Pistons.

I'm stoked for tonights game man...

"Teams like Miami, Detroit and Cleveland that have been to the finals, they look at us and say 'They haven't done anything,'" Ray Allen said.

^^^at least he's modest^^^

I just want Chauncey to post up Rondo and McDyess to destroy Kendrick pussy ass Perkins.

Go Pistons.

Ditto, that would make my year...

PG- Rondo < Chauncey

SG- Allen < Hamilton

SF- Pierce > Prince (defensively, it's a no contest)

PF- Garnett > Dyess

C- Perkins <<< Sheed


Bench

Posey, House, T. Allen, Davis, Scalabrine <<< Maxiell, Hayes, Afflalo, Hunter (man I wish we had Stuckey back)


Coaching

Rivers = Saunders (while I'm not the biggest Flip advocate, he's accomplished way more in this league than Doc has, Doc's only a product of having 3 Super Stars on his team, even Gar Heard as HC could be 20-2 with that team)

Allen >> Hamilton.

Let's not get carried away.

Pistons at Celtics Gameday

:langlois:
by Keith Langlois

TV: TV20 Detroit (HDTV) | Radio: WDFN 1130 AM - The Fan

Last Meeting: Detroit won 98-80 (March 11, 2007)

The skinny: Danny Ainge’s two huge off-season strikes – getting Ray Allen on draft day from Seattle and Kevin Garnett from Minnesota in July – could not have paid off more handsomely so far. The Celtics are the NBA’s runaway success story through the season’s first two months, undefeated at home (12-0) and boasting the league’s best record at 20-2. The Big Three – Garnett, Allen and Paul Pierce – have not had to play excessive minutes (Allen 39, Pierce 38, Garnett 35) because Boston has been winning so convincingly. The Celtics lead the NBA in point differential at an astounding 14.2. They’re doing it with their defense as much as anything, leading the league by a wide margin in scoring average and field-goal percentage defense. Second-year point guard Rajon Rondo has exceeded expectations and the bench – led by James Posey, Eddie House, Tony Allen and rookie Big Baby Davis – has not been the liability most analysts assumed.

What to watch: The Pistons pride themselves on meeting exactly this type of challenge. They know nothing will be proven until the playoffs arrive, but they also know it would be dangerous to allow Boston a dominant win. It couldn’t hurt to plant a few seeds of doubt in the collective psyche of a team that feels pretty invincible about now. Precise offensive execution will be the key for the Pistons. When they’re getting ball and player movement and making quick decisions on the offensive end instead of getting bogged down in an attempt to exploit one-on-one matchups, they’re at their best. They aren’t likely to try anything gimmicky on the other end. They like their matchups with Rasheed Wallace (with doses of Antonio McDyess) on Garnett, Tayshaun Prince on Pierce and fellow UConn alum Rip Hamilton harassing Allen. Rookie Arron Afflalo could be a valuable defensive weapon to throw at both Pierce and Allen, as well. The Pistons will be looking for Jarvis Hayes to snap out of his six-game shooting slump in which he’s 8 of 33.

If true, they haven't learned a thing.

The poll on ESPN has %75 of the nation picking the Celtics in a 7 game series on nuetral floor.

Allen >> Hamilton.

Let's not get carried away.



Not really, Ray Allen's FG% is almost 39%, Rip's is shooting 46% Rip plays far better defense, and can you please tell me the last time Ray Allen "torched" the Pistons???

I can't remember either...


even from the 3 pt shots, Rip is shooting 42%, Ray Allen 35%, Rip also has the edge in assists...despite averaging 4 less minutes per game than Ray Ray

Well Allen has made more 3s then Rip has attempted so I don't think we should pretend that their ranges are comparable but I am surprised at Allen's low 3pt% over the years. Though I guess that's because of the high volume. Their eFG%s are basically the same (48.9 for Rip 48.3 for Allen) which is what we should be going buy since they clearly shoot vastly different shots.

As for torching us. I can't recall but the guy's been on one good (read playoff) team in the last five years or so and only plays us twice a season since going to Sea.

If contracts and age weren't an issue are you saying you wouldn't rather have Ray Allen then Rip Hamilton?

If contracts and age weren't an issue are you saying you wouldn't rather have Ray Allen then Rip Hamilton?


Ray Allen can never stay healthy, he's never accomplished shit in the playoffs, and he lives and dies by his 3-pt shot, not to mention he is a below-average defender...

Rips offensive game is more diverse than Ray Allen's, and he's a solid defender as well...

They are both good players, but neither are All-Stars this year, people view the Celtics big 3 as if they have 3 of the best 10 players in the league, Ray Allen is way past his prime, and he is NOT a "Super Star"

I dissagree that Rip has a diverse offensive game at all let alone more so then Allen. We've seen what happens when Rip's screens are taken away and he is forced into primarily creating his own shot. Rip can hit the 3 from that corner and on occation from somewhere else on the floor but aside from the one year he really focused on getting to that corner for that shot he's not really a 3pt shooter. Neither one is going to remind you of Wade going to the whole but I certainly trust Allen to get himself a shot more so than Rip.

As for the playoffs. Allen's been on the Bucks and the Sonics. There was that one year that the Bucks lost to Iverson in the ECF with Cassell, Glenn Robinson, and Lindsey (represent!) but are you really going to compare that with being on this current Piston team? I think Allen's playoff history will shortly be added to btw. No I'm not saying the Celtics are representing the East.

Also, Allen's played basically the whole season in 8 of the 11 years of his career. And so far he's played most of this one. He's not exactly Jamal Tinsley.

I wouldn't call him a "Super Star" either, of course I didn' call him that in the first place. And Rips' defense is pretty fluid. I don't know that I'd call him a "solid defender".

Normally I go with Blaha, but I always watch the national broadcasts when available to get the national perspective (with a few flippings back to GB to see what he's rocking in the wardrobe, maybe the Sherlock Holmes jacket? A nice blue shirt with a contrasting white collar?). Sometimes you get some decent stories from the national talking heads that the local hacks haven't reported.

Wow, Pistons getting 6 points (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11106)

I was just going to post that. LOL Double your alpacas tonight.

I always watched National broadcasts over local. Blaha is a lot better, but you also skip the Laimbeer/Kelser/whoever homerism as well. You get a good feel for how the national media regards our team.

I like Kelser. I loved Laimbeer.

This is how the game goes: Celtics take double digit lead into half, Pistons claw back, take the lead late, lose it, Celtics hold on to win.

In case anybody forgot about this from last year...

:mccosky:


Icy relationship: McDyess, Garnett face off again

Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

BOSTON -- Antonio McDyess and Kevin Garnett share a best friend (Chauncey Billups), an agent (Andy Miller) and a shoe deal (Adidas). What they don't share is a warm and fuzzy friendship.

"I mean, we're cool," McDyess said before the Pistons' shoot-around Wednesday morning. "But it's not like we call each other all the time and stuff like that."

You might recall last January when the two balled their fists, cocked their arms and nearly came to blows in a game in Minnesota.

"I wanted to hit him," McDyess recalled, "but I didn't want to pay all those fines."

McDyess had gotten into a tussle with Mark Madsen and threw him to the floor. Garnett stepped in to defend his teammate. The two were separated before any punches were actually thrown, though Garnett did throw the ball at McDyess.

Both were ejected and the Pistons won the game in double-overtime. Wednesday night's game will be the first time they've faced each other since the incident.

When asked if he had called or talked to Garnett about the incident since it happened, McDyess said, "Nah, we ain't friends like that."

Love triangle over Chauncey?

who remembers the last game we played in Boston...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrYRdgKUngU

Rajon Rondo- 6'1'', 175 pounds

Chauncey Billups- 6'3'', 202 pounds


My God, if Flip Saunders doesn't implement Chauncey to take advantage of that mismatch, I'm going to shit a brick.

I might have to make an appearance in the chatroom tonight.

I suppose I'll drop in too.

83-82 Celtics

my reaction upon seeing doris burke's face in HD:

"AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

30 seconds in and im jacked, and there seems to be extra buzz tonight. one of those meaningless regular season games that you know are gonna stick out.

it does feel like playoffs.

hunter time? how bout an elbow or something.

Suns-Mavs will be better

ugh, DEFENSIVE REBOUNDING!!!

TAYSHAUN, WAY TO SHOW UP!

we're playing like ass, and they are out-defending us, causing turnovers and bad passes all over the place.

I heard God showed up as Lindsey Hunter for a few minutes.

sheeds block made me lol. i wish one of the announcers wouold have said, "uh, cedric? this is a mans league" afterwards.

wow

too bad they left all that meat on the bone.

oh, how i would love to know what mike curry just whispered into chauncy's ear...

hahahahaha

TONY ALLEN!!! Ha Ha!! Great move Doc Rivers, great move.

coach of the year

WHO DA MANNNNNN

Never in doubt!

Rock on

For the nba in december, that's about as good as it will ever get. What a quality win.

The Celtic Piston rivalry of the late 80s is back. And thats a good thing.

Fucking Ray Allen was Dwyane Wade courageous tonight though.

That game was fucking great. Pistons didn't have to even win it to make it awesome, the fact that it was tight like a fat kid's britches all the way to the end made it one of the best games of the last few years.

9 straight wins over Boston.

This is one of those games where your favorite team wins and you feel so relieved and relaxed, like you had just played.

I love that Doc Rivers is the coach of this team. Hell even Flip can match wits w/Doc. Tony Allen. WOW!

And ending the at-home perfect record...this feels good.

I watched this game on ESPN, but I'm probably going to watch the replay on TV20.

This is one of those games where we won and you feel so relieved and relaxed, like you had just played.

Fixed.

If Memphis holds on tonight, we'll be tied for the 2nd-best record in the NBA.

The Pistons ARE who we thought they were. And we let them off the hook!

I found this Celtic post particularly humorous....do you?




We were going to go undefeated at home this season. How does Paul Peirce take that shot over House or Allen he is a mediocre 3point shooter makes a few only because he jacks up so many shots. We are sooooo lucky that Allen is a team guy because many a nights this year Ray Allen has been taken off his game because he gets no toutches with Peirce insisting on jacking up 20+ shots every night yet Allen doesnt complain and plays through it. Sadly I odnt think it will sink in with Peirce until New Jersey bounces us in the first round and we get labelled chokers STOP TAKING EVERY SHOT YOU ARENT FIT TO LACE UP GARNETT OR ALLENS SHOES THEY ARE FUTURE HALL OF FAMERS YOU ARE NOT!!!!!!

Peirce must stop being so greedy or else we are going to get bounced by a team in the east in the playoffs which will be a huge dissapointment.

You'd think a Celtcs fan could spell the name of the guy who's been there longer than Garnett and Allen (whose names were spelled correctly) right.

Boot....lick

Well obviously Pierce is no Rondo... or apparantly House either.

You should see his avi

Celts fan's avi

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8193/49322417ia9.gif

Ironic: I just found "He Got Game" lying around my house. I had no clue I even had that movie.

Someone's good at jinxing it.

If Memphis holds on tonight, we'll be tied for the 2nd-best record in the NBA.

Great game, and nice win, though I didnt like how we almost choked it up at the end. Ray Allen's shot was just sick defenders right on him so nothing you can do there, the 3 before that by someone else* though was bad defense.

Billups ate Rondo for breakfast in the 4th. And he completely owned Tony Allen on the last play - very wily. I liked that Billups didn't go diving into Allen, he got Allen in the air coming towards him. It was a very clear foul and not some created phantom.

I was hoping for a Rip off the curl though, just for nostalgia's sake - I did see Rip come off a curl but someone else was in the passing lane so Tay couldn't get it to him.

I do think Boston is for real though, I was very impressed at times with their defense, particularly interior. But we showed veteren savvy, and I expect Billups with just eat Rondo alive in the playoffs.

Rondo did well against Billups in the first quarter...but Billups came alive during the 2nd half.
way to show up tayshaun

Quality win for the Pistons, way to show the nation how overrated Boston is...


Tell me Kendrick Perkins isn't the most useless piece of shit in the NBA...

Usually this is the case against the Pistons. Scrubs start off playing extremely well against them, then they completely disappear.


Welcome to ze club, Rondo.

Quality win for the Pistons, way to show the nation how overrated Boston is...


Tell me Kendrick Perkins isn't the most useless piece of shit in the NBA...

I'm still rollin with Dorko

Kendrick Perkins > Jason Collins at least.

in hindsight, im guessing we were cool w/ rondo getting so hot in the 1st qtr. let him jack up shots, even if hes enfeugo, like he was, those are still shots the big 3 arent taking, which atleast maybe keeps them off rhythm.

in the 1st qtr, a made rondo basket could be better for us than a missed jesus shot.

wasnt it against the c's 2 years ago that rip made a last second basket to win, also i think it ws the 2nd or third game of the year?

i cant wait to read the sports gay's take on this.

"this was EXACTLY what the C's need". lol, you know hes gonna say it. i wouldnt be at all surprised to see that exact line in his next article discussing this game. what a stooge he is.

this was another one of those games that LH made me think he could still be one of the premiere subs in the game. come in, be a pass first pg on offense and an absolute ball hawk on defense. when he comes in and moves the ball, hes as good as a sub as there is in the league. i hope we keep him fresh for the playoffs.

It was nice to see a defensive 87-85 game. A real basketball game. Brought me back to the '04 days.

tomorrow we'll know if stuckey's coming back this month or not.

Chauncey said it in the post game w/ Blaha, he'd rather Rondo score 25, b/c it means he's taking more shots, as long as the ball is out of guys like Ray, Pierce, and KG's hands, thats fine by Detroit...


Boston needs a better PG, b/c come playoff time, Rondo is going to be a liability..

also their bench is putrid...while ours wasn't fantastic, our bench doubled their bench's production

tomorrow we'll know if stuckey's coming back this month or not.


is he having x-rays done...i can't wait til' the guy comes back, just to see what he can do

we're 12-0 against every team in the east except Chicago...lol

is he having x-rays done...i can't wait til' the guy comes back, just to see what he can do

He's having his bi-weekly check up to see if he can be cleared to play.

Quality win for the Pistons, way to show the nation how overrated Boston is...


Tell me Kendrick Perkins isn't the most useless piece of shit in the NBA...

Hahha, Perkins is pretty terrible. I think this was a good game for the pistons. I'm not only saying that because we won. Boston shot it near 50 percent for the game, whereas we shot it 40 %. We got outrebounded by 3, and the big 3 combined for 61 out of 85 pts.

My only dissapointment is that when we were up 6 with 2 min. left we couldn't hit a shot to put it away. Even though our bench only gave us 14 pts, Boston got 5 off their bench. I think the next time at home we will shoot better than 40 % and beat the Celtics again.

Was anyone else getting furious after we started hot? All jumpers, no driving to the lane, even though it was working earlier.

Chauncey killed Rondo in the 2nd half. Rip was great as well going 8-11 from the field and Dyess was huge. Tayshaun needs to step it up pronto. Sheed only had 9 but he had 13 rebounds and solid D like usual.

Go Pistons.

I agree umich, when they were up by 6 with under 1:30 to go, theres no way that game should've been tied again...

regardless, I just really hate the Celtics, I'll take it anyway I can get it

Skimming the other boards, this is the first time since the 04 finals I've ever seen the majority of fans rooting for the Pistons on national TV.

The hate for the Celtics is pretty staggering.

The Laker boards were doing Deeeetroioooit Baaaasketbaaaaall celebrations. When the fuck has that ever happened?

The Pistons and Spurs are now tied for the 2nd-best record in the NBA.

Flip>Doc

Disappointed to find out this was a December game. I had to remind myself at the end. I don't think anyone can deny the Celtics and Pistons are heads and shoulders above the rest of the entire East.

Disappointed to find out this was a December game. I had to remind myself at the end. I don't think anyone can deny the Celtics and Pistons are heads and shoulders above the rest of the entire East.


Besides whatever mystery team there is absolutly no way the Pistons beat to get into the ECF, yes, they are clearly the 2 best.

we're 12-0 against every team in the east except Chicago...lol

that is such an annoying stat

Tell me Kendrick Perkins isn't the most useless piece of shit in the NBA...

From the recap at NBA.com


Boston C Kendrick Perkins (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kendrick_perkins/index.html) appeared to forget where he was supposed to be on the floor for the final possession and Rivers screamed down the bench looking for him.

The second half was as awesome as the first half was maddening.

I can't believe how good KG is.

I can't believe how much Tayshaun disappears on offense.

I can't believe I almost broke my TV when Chauncey turned the ball over with 5.1 to go.

I can't believe how much Paul Pierce is allowed to carry the ball.

All in all, a very satisfying win.

Bill Simmons?

This morning on SportsCenter, Bill Walton declared that the Pistons were the best team in the East right now. Oh Bill, what won't you say?

P.S. all you haters are going to have to admit that Lindsey was absolutely key last night.

I thought Lindsey was incredible, and Flip used him exactly as he should be used.

Get him in there to change the pace, play D, and then get him out of there.

This morning on SportsCenter, Bill Walton declared that the Pistons were the best team in the East right now. Oh Bill, what won't you say?

After saying at halftime that they are the most confusing/disappointing team in the NBA.

I agreed with him at the half.

The wife asked me if I wanted to help with xmas cookies at the half (she was joking) and I was so pissed that I actually agreed to help to get my mind off the game.

Flip coached a great 2nd half, IMO.

I refuse to believe he didn't hand over the reins to someone else in the 2nd half.

Anybody else hold their breath when Sheed got hit with that phantom foul?

I thought he was going to melt down again.

Fucking Hubie Brown with the "now from this angle, you can't tell if he hit him as he went by or not".

Fucking Hubie Brown with the "now from this angle, you can't tell if he hit him as he went by or not".

I like angry Glenn.

I like angry Glenn.

I mean, come on, I just made xmas cookies at the half and now I have to hear this Hubie Brown shit?

("magic cookie bars" to be more precise)

Why you gotta even put up with Hubie Brown? Or are you not in Detroit?

Swam is correct about having to own up about Lindsey. While watching the game I was ripping him a new one to my buddy who is pro-Lindsey. With the pressure D and the 3 I was mea culpa-ing and giving props. Dude came big in a big game again. Have to acknowledge.

Fuck yes on Hubie Brown and that bullshit call. That "this angle" shit was abysmal. At least JB (master of the no look commentary - M1) owned up to that crap call.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-071220


"Tay told Chauncey to give Tony Allen a pump fake because Tony was just coming in off the bench cold," Pistons coach Flip Saunders said.
Billups confirmed the story, saying Prince gave the same message to Richard Hamilton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3330) knowing that one of the two was going to end up with the ball in his hands for the final shot.

I also thought Sheed was going to melt down on that call. And Hubie was an idiot, call it like it was, a bad foul call.

PP may get away with walking, but so does RIP. Every time he catches the ball up top he shuffles his feet.

I thought that foul call on Hayes (Rondo driving) was weak too. He never even touched him.

Good win though.

Gotta give Hunter credit for changing the pace, but also to Afflalo and RIP too. They pressured the ball with Hunter. I also liked how Max effected the game. KG was dominating the boards and Max changed that. We fought a lot harder for rebounds after Max came in and it carried over in the second half when we got hustle rebounds.

Hubie seems to love the refs, I've noticed that for a while he goes out of his way to rationalize every call. In general though i still like him on color, aside from his sweet tooth for referee cum.

This win just makes me feel good - it just seemed like this game had the eyes of the whole NBA on it, fans of other teams even getting hyped up to watch this one. It's been a good while since we were like that it was great to see the boys in blue come through.

Lindsey was great, though I read something funny on RealGM, when they went to timeout someone said "great job lindsey, now lets get him out of there before he remembers that he sucks offensively". Hunter is great when he busts out games like these, but he also tends to counter by having a few games where he just hoists up bricks and bungles a few fast breaks. Flip used him well and knew when to pull him so that was good.

Smart recognition by Tay there, they played Allen perfectly.

Read a few more articles, Perkins is an idiot, he didnt know where to go on the last play, while Doc Rivers was screaming at thim. Then in another article he was talking about how some of the Celtics players were pointing fingers at each other in the locker room afterwards - LOL! These guys and their new-to-winning ways, someone needs to smack a lil perspective into em.

I'm still recovering from strep throat, and I think I took a step backwards watching last night's game because I was screaming at the TV so much!


I also thought Sheed was going to melt down on that call. And Hubie was an idiot, call it like it was, a bad foul call
Hubie would be better if he just said about half the sentences he says. Every other time he's gonna say something, someone in the studio should mute him.


I thought that foul call on Hayes (Rondo driving) was weak too. He never even touched him.
There were a lot of craptacular calls on both sides. At least the foul at the end was a legit thing.


I also liked how Max effected the game.
He had a +11 +/-, the highest of the team.

Hopefully when Stuckey comes back, it will add a new dimension to the team that will only make us better...

I found this link, its from October, but just seeing what other GM's think of Rodney Stuckey really makes me think he's going to improve this team...

http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_rookies.html

P.S. all you haters are going to have to admit that Lindsey was absolutely key last night.
Ha flip MurWho?

Lindsey was great last night. He has about one game a month where his shot falls, and he looks like a great backup for 5-8 minutes.

It's the exception, not the rule. Anybody who's watched Lindsey for the last decade should know that by now.

He's the best backup for this team right now, but he's still far below what we need every night. More often than not, Lindsey's offense hurts more than his defense helps.

Lindsey was great last night. He has about one game a month where his shot falls, and he looks like a great backup for 5-8 minutes.

It's the exception, not the rule. Anybody who's watched Lindsey for the last decade should know that by now.

He's the best backup for this team right now, but he's still far below what we need every night.
Actually no one is applauding his offense. We're applauding the things he actually brings pretty often. Defense, hustle, and energy. No one is naive on points and offense being gravy.

the thing is, without the shots he hit last night, his hustle doesn't really have a positive impact on the game. The Pistons would be fighting to make up for the possessions he pissed away by dribbling out the shot clock.

I love his hustle, but I still don't want him anywhere near the backup PG job when Stuckey comes back.

As a Pistons fan and a KG fan I was both glad and disappointed that Garnett shyed away yet again from the ball in the clutch.

shyed away? Did you expect him to be taking those long threes?

I was thinking more along the lines of that shot Paul Pierce took.

They called the play for Pierce. What was KG supposed to do, step in front of him and steal the inbounds pass?

yes

the thing is, without the shots he hit last night, his hustle doesn't really have a positive impact on the game. The Pistons would be fighting to make up for the possessions he pissed away by dribbling out the shot clock.

I love his hustle, but I still don't want him anywhere near the backup PG job when Stuckey comes back.
It depends on who is on the floor. You can survive for 5-8 minutes with Hunter doing nothing offensively if you run the correct plays. Post up Sheed, run RIP on curls, etc where all you need Hunter to do is feed the ball. He sucks at driving these days. He can get by people and get to the paint, but he can't finish at all.

I agree he should not hit the floor at all when Stuckey is back, except if we need a 5 minute momentum change (if we decide to trap). I'd like to see him brought in just for that reason on occasion, but not that often. Maybe just when you have suspect PG's in there for your opponent (like House is).

I'm not a huge lindsay hunter fan, but he can play against back-up point guards that can't dribble any time. He did to House what he did to the euro pg of the spurs in the finals.

And we did this WITHOUT playing Brezec.

the thing is, without the shots he hit last night, his hustle doesn't really have a positive impact on the game. The Pistons would be fighting to make up for the possessions he pissed away by dribbling out the shot clock.

I love his hustle, but I still don't want him anywhere near the backup PG job when Stuckey comes back.
1.) Are you saying his steals didnt have an impact on the game? I can't see how they didnt. Also with all the exaggeration about all these supposed turnovers by Hunter, he's almost at a 4 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Doesnt count for every position, but the reality is that we lose more possessions to iso idiocy(which becomes contagious) ala murray than we do to hunter dribbling you to madness.

2.) Stuckey is irrelevant because again no one in there right mind is saying he should be in ahead of stuckey at this juncture. Dont know how that hunter vs stuckey even became a topic on your end. The issue was Hunter vs Murray. IMO I'd rather have hunter come in before I'd want murray on the floor. Dont get ahead of yourself and equate to any wild shit like "hunter should still get time when stuckey gets back into game shape".

his steals had an impact, but he also ruined several possessions where he wasn't running the offense properly had to bail himself up by launching jumpers, which he made.

Any normal night, those jumpers don't fall and he's hustling just to keep the Pistons in the game instead of getting us the lead.

1.) Are you saying his steals didnt have an impact on the game? I can't see how they didnt. Also with all the exaggeration about all these supposed turnovers by Hunter, he's almost at a 4 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Doesnt count for every position, but the reality is that we lose more possessions to iso idiocy(which becomes contagious) ala murray than we do to hunter dribbling you to madness.

2.) Stuckey is irrelevant because again no one in there right mind is saying he should be in ahead of stuckey at this juncture. Dont know how that hunter vs stuckey even became a topic on your end. The issue was Hunter vs Murray. IMO I'd rather have hunter come in before I'd want murray on the floor. Dont get ahead of yourself and equate to any wild shit like "hunter should still get time when stuckey gets back into game shape".

good post.

his steals had an impact, but he also ruined several possessions where he wasn't running the offense properly had to bail himself up by launching jumpers, which he made.

Any normal night, those jumpers don't fall and he's hustling just to keep the Pistons in the game instead of getting us the lead.

ummmmmm... lindsey took 4 shots last night in 11 minutes, that comes out to probably 20-30 possessions. lets say 20. that means 1/5 of those possesions ended w/ LH shots (he had no turnovers, no ft's). concidering he was playing with reserves, its not like he was killing us with his shots. i recall one of his 2 misses was a 3, he was WIDE open and had to take it. i think the other one was at the basket.

if your complaining about hunter's game last night than you could complain about any game by any player ever.

And we did this WITHOUT playing Brezec.

[smilie=heatsmiley2:

his steals had an impact, but he also ruined several possessions where he wasn't running the offense properly had to bail himself up by launching jumpers, which he made.

Any normal night, those jumpers don't fall and he's hustling just to keep the Pistons in the game instead of getting us the lead.

So you would play Flip for 10 minutes a night instead? Read the bold part again and tell me that Flip doesn't do that (and without steals either).

No, Flip is worse than Lindsey right now. But that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't want either of them on the floor if this team was healthy.

No, Flip is worse than Lindsey right now. But that's neither here nor there.
actually that is kinda the topic since we arent comparing hunter to Stuckey. We have our best option at pg until Stuckey gets back in hunter.. Doesnt make him great or anything close to it. Just saying he helped out more than murray would have. That is positive regardless of personal bias towards hunter.

No, Flip is worse than Lindsey right now. But that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't want either of them on the floor if this team was healthy.

If the team was healthy, I think its possible to make a case that Lindsey could get 4-8 minutes per game...especially in a close game, at least until Afflalo can be more consistent on defense...

I have yet to see anything to suggest afflalo is inconsistent defensively...

I have yet to see anything to suggest afflalo is inconsistent defensively...


he can't press like Lindsey can, he's close, but he's still just a rook...I wish AA had more offense though...he's going to be a servicable and durbale player in this league regardless, but for now, he's simply a role player...

he can't press like Lindsey can, he's close, but he's still just a rook...

At this point in their careers, AA is the better overall defender. Lindsey will get a few more steals, but he'll also commit more bad fouls, and get burned more on a gambles. Right now, Lindsey is WAY more inconsistent defensively than AA. He has 2-3 of those games like last night per month, and the rest of the time he's just average. AA is much more steady.


I wish AA had more offense though...he's going to be a servicable and durbale player in this league regardless, but for now, he's simply a role player...

Actually, I'd say he has more offensive game than I was expecting him to have. He takes what is given to him, and shoots a high percentage. That's what makes him such a good fit for the team. IMO, he shoots off the dribble much better than I was expecting. Will he always be a role player? Probably. But you need role players to win titles. Afflalo looks like he can be a very good role player.

I think AA is a solid defender. Unfortunately he's not a true PG either and probably doesn't know our offense well. So unless you have Billups (or Stuckey) in there as well you won't have AA pressuring the ball.

Anyway, that's not the point. This debate was Hunter vs Flip.

ASB said on 1270 that Stuckey will probably start out getting 5-8 minutes per game, and could lead to about 17-20 minutes per game as the season goes on...

He expects him to take minutes away from Jarvis and Rip or Chauncey...

I know it's probably a good problem to have, but I think somebody needs to be traded for a draft pick or something, we're going to have guys on inactive who would normally see decent minutes on probably 80% of teams in the NBA...

If Herrmann ever sees the floor, than Jarvis will definitely not play anymore, and it's going to be tough to find minutes for Lindsey, and Afflalo on top of that...

And what about Amir?? My guess is we won't be seeing him much until the division is wrapped up...

So I was just scouring ESPN.com looking for Bill Simmons' reaction to the game and it must just be an oversight that I can't find one.

ASB said on 1270 that Stuckey will probably start out getting 5-8 minutes per game, and could lead to about 17-20 minutes per game as the season goes on...

He expects him to take minutes away from Jarvis and Rip or Chauncey...

I know it's probably a good problem to have, but I think somebody needs to be traded for a draft pick or something, we're going to have guys on inactive who would normally see decent minutes on probably 80% of teams in the NBA...

If Herrmann ever sees the floor, than Jarvis will definitely not play anymore, and it's going to be tough to find minutes for Lindsey, and Afflalo on top of that...

And what about Amir?? My guess is we won't be seeing him much until the division is wrapped up...
First off, we have to see how Stuckey does. Second, it all depends on the deal offered. If Houston offers us Battier for Hayes, Brezec and Flip do it (relax, that won't happen, i was just using it as an example). I wouldn't mind a deal that consolidates 3 decent bench players for 1 better one (provided Stuckey is ok). But I think you have to assess them on a case by case basis.

he can't press like Lindsey can, he's close, but he's still just a rook...I wish AA had more offense though...he's going to be a servicable and durbale player in this league regardless, but for now, he's simply a role player...
Looked great tonite. I honestly think he's consistent defense, but with just as many mixed results as Hunter. His offense will be fine though.


Also his passing is underrated along with his handles. He could play PG if needed imo. But nonetheless he's proven to be a better all around player than I expected and he hasn't even been getting his bread and butter Rip Hamilton mid range screen shots he did so well with in college.

He could play PG in a pinch, but I would never ever want him playing PG unless he absolutely had to. I think he was a solid pick and probably the best thing we could have gotten at that point in the draft. He's come out and surpassed all of our expectations, and I don't want to hear anyone saying that they knew he'd be good. Everyone was bitching about this pick, myself included, but once again Joe had a good eye for mid to late first round picks. I hated the pick when it happened, I wanted a developmental center or something along those lines, but by the time preseason ended AA had me convinced that he was the best guy left on the board at that point.