I haven't seen any bulls games this year, but it looks like the ben wallace decline is continuing:

2007-08 Statistics FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
G GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL
Season 15 15 32.3 32-90 .356 0-1 .000 10-30 .333 3.5 5.1 8.5 1.67

BLK TO PF AST PTS
1.40 .73 1.67 1.5 4.9

Apparently, he is playing better lately as he has been getting more minutes, but still- 36% FG 33% FT. The FG% is even more unbelievable when you consider he only averages 4 shots a game. I wonder what his non-dunk percentage is. Reportedly, he is unhappy and unproductive without playing 35+ min a game. However, ben wallace is more of a specialist at this point and a coach has to really work around his offensive deficiencies in the modern nba. So Skiles has to play him 75% of the game to be useful- despite having an already offensively limited team. given the attitude and lack of production, I wonder if the current pistons are better off without him even without considering the $15 mil he is making this year. Ben was great while he was here, but I think the pistons are better off this year (definitely the next 2) because of his signing with the bulls. When you consider the FA money or trade manuverability the bulls would have without wallace, they look pretty bad. Could they have gotten kobe if the lakers could've dumped more salary onto the bulls without getting wallace back?

The only question is whether the pistons could have won the title last year with ben- i doubt it. Considering that amir + chauncey make less than ben, and that we might not have had one or both this year, it looks like the decision was a no-brainer for dumars.

As hard as it is to admit, I do think that we are better off without Ben and his contract. Mostly the contract.

It's odd though, when I think about the one piece that might be missing in this squad if they are to win a championship, it's a big man that rebounds and blocks shots.

Hopefully the Amir/Max combo addresses that concern.

So far, so good.

Yeah, I was EXTREMELY critical of the decision not to match, but it seems to be working out for the best now.

I agree with the lack of shot blocking, but mcdyess/sheed/jmax should be able to make up for ben's rebounding in theory. I think the biggest problem will be wade/lebron in the playoffs. (especially's ben's hustle to block and-1 attempts after the whistle) However, the pistons playoff offense has been brutal and it seems like ben is worse than ever offensively.

Also, not to derail this thread- but how dumb does the bulls' gm look with the wallace contract, passing on lamarcus aldridge and compounding the aldridge screw-up by drafting noah. They could be a sub-40% shooting team this year.

Ben is obviously on his decline and needs big minutes to produce big numbers. I just saw him getting 48 minutes recently in a non-overtime game. He's going to wear out by the end of the season. With the shitty play of the Bulls as of late, i smell a pretty big shakeup in their roster

Well I think we ended up about the same. The next year it was the same story - good regular season, go out like bitches in the Conf. Finals because we can't defend a superstar.
I do think our interior defense has taken a hit (and the numbers show this) while our perimeter defense has improved a bit.

I have maintained from the very beginning of this thing that Ben Wallace put himself in that spot, and Joe was 100% justified in not matching.

I strongly believe that the lack of a defensive inside presence killed us last year (and the wrongheaded and sentimental decision to put Chris Webber in that role didn't help) but it was infinitely preferable to being saddled with Ben's contract and no money to give out to promising youngs (and maybe even no money to retain Chauncey, which IMO would have been a disaster).

Who the fuck is Ben Wallace?

Who the fuck is Ben Wallace?
Ugly guy with a mushmouth and bad hands. You'd know him if you saw him.

Gotta ask, Karl.

G.O.A.T.?

God of all threads?

Horry goes to work: It's difficult to tell if San Antonio's Robert Horry was paying tribute or mocking Bulls center Ben Wallace on Sunday.

Horry made his first appearance of the season in the Spurs' victory over Portland, finishing with 2 blocks, 2 rebounds and no points during six minutes of playing time.

"I'm averaging 2 blocks a game and shooting zero percent," Horry said following the game. "Just call me Ben Wallace."

Wallace heard about the quote after Monday's game and responded with a smirk, "I'll definitely check him out to see what he's talking about. He don't want no problems with me."

Ouch. Horry's gonna get his ass kicked.

LAWL!

As hard as it is to admit, I do think that we are better off without Ben and his contract. Mostly the contract.
I agree with this.

Will Ben clutch his balls after making Horry feel pain?

The magic 8 ball says: Outlook good

Will Ben clutch his balls after making Horry feel pain?

The magic 8 ball says: Outlook good

At some point this exchange ends with Horry making a comment about the 2005 finals. Ends badly for Ben.

"Hey, weren't you the Wallace that left me open? Oh, no? That's right, it was 'Sheed...I forgot what you did that entire series."

You're assuming Horry wants to talk at the end of the experience.
This might be difficult with a basketball jammed down his throat.

You assume Ben can actually put it there. He doesn't exactly have great aim nowadays...

You assume Ben can actually put it there. He doesn't exactly have great aim nowadays...
Ben Wallace could throw himself at the ground and miss.

Ben is shooting %34 from the floor this season. That has to be some sort of NBA record it holds. That's amazingly bad shooting for a guy that doesn't attempt a shot anywhere beyond 8 feet.

If he holds Horry by the scruff/skin of the neck and bashes his face in a few times attempting to insert the ball, so much the better.

Paxson really bailed out Joe Dumars on this one.

After being the face of the franchise, a blue collar player, and helping bring Detroit a championship it would have looked terrible if Dumars didn't offer Ben a big contract. Dumars had to offer $60 million over 5 years, but he probably wasn't completely sold on giving that money to Ben. Paxson came in with a ridiculous offer of $15 million per year, and saved Joe from looking like a bad guy. Instead Ben looked like the bad guy from taking the $ instead of remaining loyal. Couldn't have worked out better for Dumars IMO.

Welcome, bstein14. We've been waiting for you.

Hey, bstein!

Stick around, man.

I think that's the last we'll see of him.

Nah I'm here for good now. I was posting occasionally over at realgm but recently got "suspended" for the last time.

Feels good come back here and read so much good stuff (and terrible stuff) of so many people I haven't chatted with for so long.

hard to believe TOS suspended a great bball mind.

hard to believe TOS suspended a great bball mind.

Ah there was a thread about Ron Artest's 4 year old daughter having cancer and I basically said that it was karma, bad things happen to bad people...

Apparently that was in "poor taste" and they hoped that I take my "week away to think about what I've done."

Poor taste isn't really a reason to suspend people. That's their problem. You should be suspended for violating board policies, not for edgy comments.

that IS poor taste if you would ask me.
but of course you wouldn't.

Things really did work out well for the Pistons. I'm glad we're not having the "bench Ben Wallace" discussion right now....

Its funny how many times Dumar's ass was saved.

He offered a gimpy Grant Hill a max contract, and Hill choose Orlando.

The following off season he offered Webber a max contract, but Webber stayed with Sac only to have his career go downhill.

And he offered Ben Wallace $12 million per, only to see him choose Chicago and have his career seemingly go downhill sharply.

There's no guarantee Webber gets hurt if he play in Detroit.

Also no guarantee Hill doesn't recover under Arnie.

Joe doesn't have good luck as much as the guys who leave him have bad luck.

that IS poor taste if you would ask me.
but of course you wouldn't.
And if you ask me, everything we experience is the direct result of karma. But that's a discussion for another place and time.