working on one year of the rule, who isnt thrilled with this thing? this was one of those controversy's that i never really got. college bball fans win, nba fans win, and even the 19 year olds that have to go to school for one whole year win (in the long run). the only guys who lose would be the lavell blanchard types, who could have snuck into the nba and gotten one big contract before going to school, but got a bit exposed b and had their draft stock drop every year.

I hate it. Replaced the young, exciting players with old, tired vets.

i think your being facetious.

15 year old talented Europeans can be pros. What does the NBA do for 15 year old U.S. kids? Hell, at the rate that the dollar is declining, I'd be telling the next LeBron to go to Europe and make some real money. I think that the NBA needs to figure out how to funnel U.S. talent on a professional track earlier, not later, and the age-19 rule is a mistake without that.

I think it helps keep a lot of flameout high schoolers out of the nba. Think of how much better a lot of guys would be if they'd gone to school, even just a year, and either worked on their game or realized they weren't as ready as they thought and spent some more time in the college game. For every LeBron James and Dwight Howard there's a dozen flameouts that end up as either 12-15th men on an NBA team or out of the league completely. They think they're going to be stars and they end up as late first-early second round picks, or not even drafted at all.

Maybe the NBA needs to set up a system like the NHL. You can draft a guy then let him go play a few years of college ball until he's ready. The example that jumps to mindas most recognizable right now is the Wings doing it with Jimmy Howard. They drafted him then he played another year or two with Maine before joining the wings minor league team. Just think if we'd drafted Amir, let him come along for a year in college playing big minutes instead of just sitting on our bench doing nothing, then brought him on to our squad.

15 year old talented Europeans can be pros. What does the NBA do for 15 year old U.S. kids? Hell, at the rate that the dollar is declining, I'd be telling the next LeBron to go to Europe and make some real money. I think that the NBA needs to figure out how to funnel U.S. talent on a professional track earlier, not later, and the age-19 rule is a mistake without that.

my question: why? why is it SOOOOOO important to rob these kids of their teenage years?

i just dont get it. why is hs and college so bad for these kids?

last year was considered one of the deepest drafts ever, people are absolutely going gaga over this year's freshman class.

i'd say, if anything, the minimum needs to be raised.

my question: why? why is it SOOOOOO important to rob these kids of their teenage years?

i just dont get it. why is hs and college so bad for these kids?

.


Who are you to say what's good and bad for another man? Why is practicing your craft within your own rules and without restrictions so bad for these kids? Why rob them of their teenage years by forcing them into an enviroment?

Funny how you say man, but yet when they make a decision that is unpopular and people want to defend it, it is because they are so young and you remember when you were young and made all these poor decisions.

Funny how you say man, but yet when they make a decision that is unpopular and people want to defend it, it is because they are so young and you remember when you were young and made all these poor decisions.

When I was 18 I worked 55 hours a week as a diner manager. Good thing there was no rule that made me go to culinary school for a year first.

my question: why? why is it SOOOOOO important to rob these kids of their teenage years?
How do you feel about gymnasts and ice skaters, most of whom didn't have normal "teenaged years", especially if they were uber-talented and didn't wash out early?

We fret about the deluded kids going into the NBA draft early, but maybe their problem is that they never faced serious competition and professional load early enough and thought they were on top of the world until it was too late in their growth and development to easily re-adjust their sites? Our idea of what under-18 talents should do is to transfer high schools, hoping some high school coach doesn't fuck them up along the way.

Meanwhile, we're drafting foreign pros largely on the basis of their professional experience. Delfino was a paid pro at age 16, Memo at age 17. AK47 played pro at age 15. Yao Ming was a Shanghai Shark at age 17, and probably a "pro" by NCAA standards earlier than that.


i just dont get it. why is hs and college so bad for these kids?

last year was considered one of the deepest drafts ever, people are absolutely going gaga over this year's freshman class.
5 Euros were drafted in that 1st round, despite some having pro contracts that made them more attractive in the 2nd round. Yi Jianlian was a pro at 15, if you believe his age. Belinelli and Splitter were also pros at 15. Rudy Fernandez was 16. Petteri Koponen was 17.


i'd say, if anything, the minimum needs to be raised.
If they can legitimately play in the NBA, I don't care much about their age. I think that Stern's shooting the NBA in the foot by not directly guiding and culling out the young phenoms. I'm just waiting for the day that the next KG decides it makes more sense to play in Europe and get paid at age 16, rather than wait 3 years.

I'm definitely a fan of the rule. To me, it's strengthened both the pro and college game. These young guys get an extremely valuable year of college, but the value doesn't so much lie in advancing their game (although I believe it does), but in learning a bit more responsibility and maturity. It's the same as I feel I was better prepared to start a career after a year of college, and exponentially more after four years.

I don't know that I'd like to see it raised yet. For me, it's working to do what it intended to, and I'm content.

I like the rule. I think about the younguns that came into the league during the NBA's brief flirtation with high-school age players (that sounds just wrong), and I dislike almost all of them. With a few obvious exceptions. If I can't stand them then it stands to reason that other people can't stand them either.

Anyone here remember the ABA? One of the things that enabled them to achieve competitive parity with the NBA of the era was their willingness to accept the 18 year old Moses Malone sorts.

Besides, are the older players all that more "likeable", much more likely to not lose their minds when given megabucks and a podium? I could believe that 85% of teens s lose their mind, but that it only drops to 75% for someone age 25. Hell, Latrine "feed my family" Peewell went to college for 4 years.

I have no particular problem at all with the idea that only 19 year olds can go into the NBA. I have a problem with the idea that it's another year that the NBA isn't providing them some paid guidance to direct them in rational ways. Get them accustomed to NBA rules, game times, and three-point lines and such early on. Get them some distance from fucked-up family situations if they can shoot the rock. Nurture and cultivate -- don't disenfranchise.

I have a problem with the idea that it's another year that the NBA isn't providing them some paid guidance to direct them in rational ways. Get them accustomed to NBA rules, game times, and three-point lines and such early on. Get them some distance from fucked-up family situations if they can shoot the rock. Nurture and cultivate -- don't disenfranchise.
How to you propose they go about doing that?

I think that any comparison of this rule with Europe is comparing apples and oranges. In Europe the system exists because a large number of teams are owned by soccer clubs and even those that aren't follow the European soccer system of having youth teams, and I mean starting when they're 8 or 9 even, and developing the talent in a much more closed environment. Very often young high-school age kids are living in team facilities and getting "home schooled" while they're training or practicing. It would be as though Mike Illitch used his Little Ceasar's teams as recruiting grounds for the Wings with no draft whatsoever.

There's just no way to compare that to the US. Kids in high school in the US are just not training for pro sports on a level that some European kids are doing here.

I think that the US system has to be looked in its own context. Personally I like the NBA rule; it would never be an issue here in Europe, but for the US and the NBA I think it's showing to work.

Latrine Peewell "went to college" for 4 years.

Fixed.


I have no particular problem at all with the idea that only 19 year olds can go into the NBA. I have a problem with the idea that it's another year that the NBA isn't providing them some paid guidance to direct them in rational ways. Get them accustomed to NBA rules, game times, and three-point lines and such early on. Get them some distance from fucked-up family situations if they can shoot the rock. Nurture and cultivate -- don't disenfranchise.

I see what you're saying and it sounds good, but you're muddying the mission of the league. The NBA exists to schedule professional basketball teams from various cities to compete against one another, for our entertainment. It's nice if they can step beyond that to rescue young basketball players, but their job is to put on a show. If they complicate that main role by adding the role of nurturing the next generation of Sprewells, you can probably see situations where the NBA might find itself at cross-purposes with itself.

I oppose standing in the way of anybody making a living by dictate.

Most times, when society in general or groups of any kind try to mandate that which is deemed "good for you", it makes me uneasy.

If the intent of making them go to school is to help them learn a craft so they can make a living, then to me it's not logical to stand in their way if they have the talent to achieve this without the training that you are trying to force them into. Once they exit the high school system, making a living/finding a career becomes paramount, IMO, by hook or by crook.

Plus, I'm an NBA fan and don't give two shits about increasing the quality of the college game. I just want to see the best players at the highest level, no matter what age they are.

Will there be casualties like Korleone Young? Yes.

If someone wants to hand me millions of dollars for a few years of hard knocks as a pro hoops project, then consider me a casualty as well, please.

The same way the foreign leagues have -- they start by doing SOMETHING. Hell, they can take a model closer to home. America's pastime, baseball, has a minor league, with age 16-17 talents in it.

I think there's reluctance because they don't want to piss off the universities and suburban soccer moms who want kids to get "an education". But, unlike the NFL, the universities don't boast a terribly-great farm system for the NBA in college anymore, as evidenced by all the elite players going to the NBA after 1-2 years.

There's just no way to compare that to the US. Kids in high school in the US are just not training for pro sports on a level that some European kids are doing here.
Should they? Would it make the sport and the quality of the game better?

I see what you're saying and it sounds good, but you're muddying the mission of the league. The NBA exists to schedule professional basketball teams from various cities to compete against one another, for our entertainment. It's nice if they can step beyond that to rescue young basketball players, but their job is to put on a show. If they complicate that main role by adding the role of nurturing the next generation of Sprewells, you can probably see situations where the NBA might find itself at cross-purposes with itself.
It's not just "rescue" kids from bad family situations, but rescue them from bad coaches who don't know what they're doing and screw up their fundamentals. Don't wait until 19 to try and "develop" players at the highest level. Don't rely on Joe Blow high school or college coach to do it for you, because they may have their own agendas that are quite independent of "crafting a good NBA player".

Should they? Would it make the sport and the quality of the game better?

It's definitely a valid argument.

Pau Gasol here was being trained by Barça at a very young age leading to the development of NBA skills before he turned 20. The stereotype of the high school star in the states is an athletically gifted player who in high school can destroy competition on physical ability alone and who later picks up pro skills after high school.

the old argument is, most professions these days require college experience.

it doesnt matter if your a genius, not only do you need a law degree to be licensed, but you have to physically go to all your classes. why should that matter if you know your shit anyway? well, thats just the way it is and it seems to work for the best.

does anyone dispute that last year's draft was phenomenal? is it just coincidence that its the first age-19 draft? what was so good about ed curry, kwame brown, and ty chandler getting into the league so fast?

and where do you think the pressure these kids get to join the league and make that $$ comes from? its going to be there waiting. would you trade arguably 4 of the best years of your life for an early pay day?

alot of the pressure these kids get are from money hungry familly members and hangers on who dont care about whats best for these kids and just want to cash in their lottery ticket.

just because these guys are in line to make many millions of dollars doesnt mean that college cant teach them anything (i would argue that these future nba stars need college more than anyone).

if these kids really really dont want to go to college, they can go to europe, i think they can join the nbdl, i think one agent even claimed he was going to open an academy for under 18ers so that they can avoid the horrible experience that is college. my guess is college will continue to bring in the elite talent because thats whats best for everyone.

.

does anyone dispute that last year's draft was phenomenal?

It's been a phenomenal embarrasment to the league so far. The best player has been....get this....a foreign former pro.

Too bad Durrant wasn't able to get off last year in the league. That would have been exciting.

Is it the NBA's responsibility to be the caretaker of society or are they a basketball league that should be striving to attract the best available talent?

Removing the age limit doesn't prevent the kids that want to go to college from going.

Choice is a wonderful thing.

How many people here have a problem with Michelle Wie or Freddy Adu cashing checks?

Well, Wie would be a good example if she could actually play.

If anyone thinks the NBA is doing this to protect anyone but themselves they are nowhere close to cogent.

Fact - NBA GM's cannot stop themselves from spending all the money they are allowed to spend.

Fact - NBA GM's ALL fall in love with unrealized talent.

Fact - NBA GM's are not the ones in the ownership meetings where they came up with the age limit.

That's a good point, Fool.

The age limit serves as a legal form of collusion.

It keeps owners from spending $ on guys without much of a track record, which technically reduces the risk of their investment in payroll.

They can't help themselves, so they change the rules in an attempt to prevent themselves from making risky/bad decisions.

While punishing their fans under the guise of "protecting the poor black kids".

the old argument is, most professions these days require college experience.

it doesnt matter if your a genius, not only do you need a law degree to be licensed, but you have to physically go to all your classes. why should that matter if you know your shit anyway? well, thats just the way it is and it seems to work for the best.
I'd bet the median age at which law students go for the bar is roughly the average age at which your smaller NBA player's athleticism and body start to decline.


does anyone dispute that last year's draft was phenomenal? is it just coincidence that its the first age-19 draft? what was so good about ed curry, kwame brown, and ty chandler getting into the league so fast?
I'm not so sure it was quite THAT phenomenal. There's precisely 3 kids drafted in 2007 that are averaging 10+ ppg at the moment, and one of them was a foreign pro. Points isn't the be-all and end-all (but I seem to have trouble with the Javascript at http://www.nba.com/statistics/ -- all it shows are ppg), obviously, and I bet Oden gets 10+ ppg too.


and where do you think the pressure these kids get to join the league and make that $$ comes from? its going to be there waiting. would you trade arguably 4 of the best years of your life for an early pay day?
In a heartbeat. If I can make enough to be set for life, I take the money. It's not going to be there waiting. Maxiell was the only first rounder his year that actually completed his degree. It's not like the NBA is beating down people's doors for four-year players.


alot of the pressure these kids get are from money hungry familly members and hangers on who dont care about whats best for these kids and just want to cash in their lottery ticket.
They'd want the money regardless. Teams are willing to swing for the fences because of rookie scale contracts. The age of Big Dog holding out for $100 million is past.


just because these guys are in line to make many millions of dollars doesnt mean that college cant teach them anything (i would argue that these future nba stars need college more than anyone).
I would argue that they need a real high school education (enough to pass the GED at least), stable living situations and healthy diets, and fundamentals coaching in their teens. College is too late, and can potentially add a layer of fuckage because college coaches don't have "prepare kids for pro ball" as the primary thing they get paid big bucks for. If a college coach keeps a kid an extra year that should've gone pro so they can get further into the NCAA the next time, he wins and the NBA loses.


if these kids really really dont want to go to college, they can go to europe, i think they can join the nbdl, i think one agent even claimed he was going to open an academy for under 18ers so that they can avoid the horrible experience that is college. my guess is college will continue to bring in the elite talent because thats whats best for everyone.
Of the four rookies scoring 10+ ppg, 2 are foreign pros. Of the five rookies grabbing 5+ rpg, 2 are foreign pros and one is Jamario Moon, the kid who beat out Kapono and Delfino for the Raps starting SF job, who was definitely not well served by the college system.

I think they should either ditch the rule or add a year to it, so most players would have 2 years of college.

I mean, really, what's the point of just one year at college? That's not enough imo to build any of the supposed benefits of kids going to college.

The benefit, the point of one year of college from an NBA perspective, is that it adds something of a funnel. The colleges are better at scouting high schools than the pros are, because there's more of them and they can theoretically divide and conquer. It's not necessarily clear how much of a benefit that really is for the McDonald's All-Americans out there who dominate at an early age..

im at work right now, so i cant really bring the thunder, but its coming in about 3 hrs.

this season is less than a mnth old. this class of rookies will be phenomenal, just give them a little time. dwyane wade didnt start killingthe league till the second half of his rookie season. this draft class is going to have alot of impact players THIS year, it just will take them more than 15 games to get on it.

b-diddy is a merely a pawn of David Stern

He's been a plant all these years, posting amongst us, building rapport, waiting to start this thread.

while your waiting for my response, please take a minute and visit our sponsers:

www.nike.com

This isn't FORCING them to go to college. They have other options. They can either go to college for a year, join a minor league team for a year, or go overseas for a year. No one is stopping them. I do think we need to build a better minor league system for things such as this, though. Or possibly consider my earlier post:


Maybe the NBA needs to set up a system like the NHL. You can draft a guy then let him go play a few years of college ball until he's ready. The example that jumps to mindas most recognizable right now is the Wings doing it with Jimmy Howard. They drafted him then he played another year or two with Maine before joining the wings minor league team. Just think if we'd drafted Amir, let him come along for a year in college playing big minutes instead of just sitting on our bench doing nothing, then brought him on to our squad.

There's the whole "injury" thing, though. Oden said he wanted to be a four-year player, then he hurt his hand and he was in the draft ASAP. And given his injury this year, that was a smart thing to do because the worst case scenario is that he never plays again and has $9 million. Had he stuck around at OSU, he'd have a whole lot less than $9 million.

Had he stuck around at OSU, he'd have a whole lot less than $9 million.

Probably only 2 or 3 mil.

He's got the body of an old man, though. One year of college isn't going to deteriorate most people to the point of him. If only there was a way for the NBA to objectively decide who was ready and who wasn't, but that's really not possible.

while your waiting for my response, please take a minute and visit our sponsers:

www.nike.com

There must be something wrong with my computer, whenever I click on that link, I get this (http://www.adidas.com).

and when was the last time you won anything?